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Cleaning Up After Irene; 9/11 Commission Report Card; Moammar Gadhafi Still At Large; Animals in Tripoli Zoo Starving; Some Question Cost-Effectiveness of College; Drunk Father Throws Son off Sightseeing Boat

Aired August 31, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Randi Kaye, thank you, ma'am.

And hello to you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Want to begin in Vermont. It's a state struggling to deal with the flooding generated by Irene. A couple of towns cut off by the flooding, washed out by roads have been waiting for supplies. Relief workers are now using airdrops and some are having to resort to these four-wheel-drive vehicles just to reach these people with everything from pampers to prescriptions, along with, of course, food and water.

Amber Lyon once again following this one for us out of Vermont live today in Wilmington.

And, Amber, I see a lot of people out and about behind you. It looks like some, some progress is being made.

AMBER LYON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There's a lot of cleaning up going on out here, Brooke.

At one point, residents here say the water would have been over my head. This river that's right over that way flooded and just came right across here. This is the center of town, a town called Wilmington. About 1,800 residents live here. This is where a lot of people have threat I'll tell you what. family-owned businesses right across the street. If you look at those clothes hanging out to dry, that was a consignment shop.

I just spoke with the two owners. They say that they lost the majority of their inventory. They also say they didn't have flood insurance. We're also seeing over here National Guard troops. They have been coming out and helping the residents clean up all their damaged property and dispose of it before -- there's been a lot of food and other belongings -- we have some restaurants out here -- before it causes any problems.

If you take a look at these girls right here -- hello -- we have also seen a lot of volunteers. They don't even live in this area yet. They have come out here, hundreds of them, to help the residents clean up.

Right over here, we have got a freezer from this deli. The basement of this deli is flooded. And over here, we have got some pipes just sucking out the water. That's been a big issue for a lot of these businesses is basement flooding, which is threatening the integrity of their structures.

And over here is the Country store. I want to introduce you to the family that owns this. This has been a family-owned operation for several, about 40 years.

And over here, we have got Bert Wurzberger.

Bert, how are you doing?

BERT WURZBERGER, BUSINESS OWNER: Doing good.

(CROSSTALK)

LYON: And -- Bert Wurzberger -- and, Bert, you and your mom and your dad have owned this property for about 40 years.

WURZBERGER: Since 1966.

LYON: And what is it like to see all of this destruction out here?

WURZBERGER: It was very upsetting at first. It was really hard.

And I watched and observed the entire flood from the very beginning when it first came over the bank until the very end by being up on the hillside on the other side of the street. And it was pretty traumatic. The floodwaters were extreme. We had a river going down Main Street, a white-water river. And all the buildings in town were flooded.

LYON: And something interesting, and Bert owns an aquarium store and you sell fish.

WURZBERGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: And your store, we're about to be able to possibly get a shot of this. Bob, if you can see that over there. That's your store. It just was completely...

(CROSSTALK)

WURZBERGER: The remains of my store.

BALDWIN: Oh, wow.

LYON: It was just taken away by the water.

WURZBERGER: That's correct. I'm online at bertsaquarium.com. And I'm still online for online sales, because my online has a different location.

But the building was completely destroyed, as you can see. And the water tipped over the bank. And I was in the building at the time. And I moved everything up to the second floor, expecting I was going to be able to save it.

And as you can see, the building was completely destroyed.

LYON: And how did you get out of that building?

WURZBERGER: I was moving the last few items out. And the water rose so fast, by the time I got out of the building, I was almost waist-deep in water.

And I had seen other floods here before, including the -- the only other bad flood we had was in 1976, which was nowhere near as bad as this. But the water rose much -- I was here in '76. I was 13 years old. And the water there rose much faster than any other flood before.

And this rose even much faster than that. So even within the first five minutes of the water coming over the bank, I knew this was going to be the worst flood in history. And so I came up and just started warning other people and trying to help other people to get their valuables saved.

LYON: Well, thank you very much. And best luck to you and your mother in getting this cleaned up.

Something that a lot of these shop owners have said has really helped are these hundreds of volunteers that they say they don't even know them who have come from all areas of Vermont to help in the cleanup. Obviously, by all the movement going on around here, this town is starting to clean up and starting to come back to life, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, I can't imagine having my own livelihood just being washed away. Hopefully, they're getting what they need.

Amber Lyon, thank you very much, live for us in Vermont.

Want to also let you know we will be hearing from FEMA's administrator here in just a moment, Craig Fugate.

But first, let me just paint the big picture for you today. Irene's floodwaters, they are beginning to recede. Certainly, that is good news. But misery is still piling up. Here's an ugly snapshot of her impact.

First you need to know this. Nearly two million homes and businesses started the day without power, disrupting their lives, their livelihoods. That is four days now since the storm hit.

The human toll now stands at 43 dead and there are ongoing concerns that that number will climb. Additionally, thousands of people who had to evacuate as Irene closed in now must calculate their own losses. And some still can't go home.

And then there's this. Flood advisories are still in place for portions of seven states. FEMA Director Craig Fugate says his agency will help speed up the process for those filing claims for assistance. You can call, you can hop on the Web if you have electricity or simply just stop FEMA vehicles in your area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRAIG FUGATE, FEMA ADMINISTRATOR: People that need to register at FEMA can go to that vehicle and start that registration process so we can begin helping you as you rebuild your lives.

As the president said, we're not here just for the short run. We will be here under the leadership of Secretary Napolitano supporting the governor and his team for the long haul.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Administrator Fugate.

Now, even after Irene has fizzled, it's still creating a huge flooding problem for many people in the Northeast, New Jersey specifically, rescuers going through neighborhoods picking up people still stranded by that high water. One police sergeant says it's going on pretty much 24 hours a day. The Passaic River already swollen by those heavy spring rains just couldn't handle Irene's tremendous downpour from over the weekend.

And Paterson's mayor, Paterson, New Jersey, upset by the squabbling he's witnessed over FEMA funding that he says his city very much so now needs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JEFFERY JONES, PATTERSON, NEW JERSEY: I'm outraged. I can only be outraged for those who can't speak for themselves, for those who site on Capitol Hill and don't quite understand that America didn't put us in this place.

We got here because the folks who were supposed to be paying attention probably weren't or don't quite understand the magnitude of what we're all facing at this point in time. And to find that Mother Nature has a mind of her own and a will of her own, we can't have the petty wranglings going on when we have got folks who are in dire need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And you really have to see this picture. These aerial images, you can understand why the mayor is so frustrated, water as far as the camera can see. Look at that.

Now to Connecticut. Take a look at part of Connecticut's coastline here. This is East Haven. And you don't need words when you see homes like this, totally toppled, splintered by Irene. The governor of Connecticut will tour the southeastern part of the state today just to assess the damage there.

In that part of Connecticut, many of the homes and businesses, those still standing, I should say, still don't have power.

And after all the chaos caused by Irene, we better start watching for Tropical Storm Katia. Take a look. This is the radar, Katia swirling about, the storm slowly getting stronger with sustained winds now at 65 miles per hour. Katia is now headed west-northwest toward Bermuda, which could soon start to feel the effects of the storm.

The next 24 hours, we're told, are crucial. They will determine whether or not Katia hits us here in the U.S. Of course, stay tuned to CNN for the latest on that new storm.

In Texas, boy, do they need the water. The flames are as high as 100 feet in the air as another massive wildfire ignites across the state., homes destroyed. Hundreds of people are fleeing this hour.

CNN's Jim Spellman is there for us on the ground where firefighters are battling the worst of the flames. We're going to check in with him next.

Also ahead, CNN today hearing directly from a member of Moammar Gadhafi's family and the message loud and clear. No surrender.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Fire crews are battling a huge fast-moving wildfire sort of near Dallas. The worst wildfire season in Texas' history compounded by all the heat, the crippling drought, is just getting worse.

Neighboring Oklahoma not faring much better. Flames incinerated this church. This is Oklahoma City. This is just one of several buildings that have burned. Three firefighters were treated for minor injuries. Flames have also burned dozens of homes near Possum Kingdom Lake in Texas. This wildfire is threatening dozens more homes.

Look at just the smoke and the flames in these images. Hundreds of people as a result have had to get out of there. They're calling in help from air tankers just to battle some of those flames.

And Jim Spellman is there in Possum Kingdom Lake in Texas.

And, Jim, I thought this area sounded familiar. It was four months ago another wildfire in right around that same area destroyed like 160 homes. Tough for those folks. How is it today? How is the fire? Conditions better?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they got a good handle on it earlier today, Brooke, but just in the last hour, the winds have started to pick up. And we have seen a lot of smoke, fire coming across this crest over here.

What they have been doing is doing helicopter runs, pulling water right out of the lake here and planes dropping retardant on it. And they seem to have gotten a handle on it. But the conditions here are so bad. It's already 103 degrees at the thermometer on our satellite truck. And all the way -- all the grass you walk on is just this super-brittle dry grass like this, perfect fuel for a fire like this.

And the real problem with this fire that broke out yesterday is the location. These are all vacation homes, second homes that line the ridge of this lake. That's right where the fire came out. One side of them is the lake. They can't get rescue equipment to them from that direction. They have limited ways to get into these people and the people have limited ways to get out.

The 25 or so homes that were destroyed, these are really big, nice brick homes, just leveled. In one, you can just see a chimney, maybe the shelf of like a washing machine, just really utter devastation. But the location meeting the drought and the winds is just kind of the perfect situation to have a terrible fire here.

And until they get rain, I don't see how it will get much better, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, Jim, if these are primarily vacation homes, and what are we, just about Labor Day weekend, are a lot of people vacationing, or did a lot of these people have to leave?

SPELLMAN: Yes. About 125 people have evacuated. For most people it's their second home, so they can go back to maybe Dallas or Fort Worth or stay with friends. But it's still devastating nonetheless.

BALDWIN: Sure.

SPELLMAN: It is the end of the summer here. They have one more big weekend here where people are going to fill in. They're clearly not going to be able to come in here unless they make major changes. They have already burn bans in effect for most of Texas. Only three of the 200-some counties in Texas do not have burn bans.

It's already kind of limited some of the activities that they can do here along this lake. And I think that the authorities here are going to just try to keep people away, because it just can't be safe, because I will tell you, Brooke, even if they get this fire under control, the same situation exists all around for hundreds of miles in any direction.

All it takes is one spark and you could have the exact same thing happen on the other side of the lake or 10 miles away or 50 miles away in any direction. The drought is that bad, Brooke.

BALDWIN: One more for you, Jim Spellman. I understand some of these crews are trying to at least contain some of the edges of this fire. Is that successful so far?

SPELLMAN: They have been so far. They are about 25 percent contained. They did what they -- about they hooked the heel of the fire. So they got kind of a toehold on one edge of which to build the lines out. They have bulldozers here to try to build out more of the line.

They have limited roads here. They don't have a big interstate or something going through that they can use to kind of build a fire back. They did light some fires, backfires to try to eliminate some of that. They feel like they're good with that. But when these winds pick up, an ember can go a mile, two miles behind their lines and start a whole new fire there.

So, Brooke, they have made progress and they are optimistic, but they don't want to get complacent and feel like they have this under control until it's really 100 percent out.

BALDWIN: Wow. Thinking about those crews and you guys, 103 degrees there. That is hot. Jim Spellman, thank you so much.

It's an image that really just captured the nation's heart, a loyal dog refusing to leave the side of his fallen owner, a Navy SEAL killed in Afghanistan. And now there are new plans for that dog to honor his comrade.

Also ahead, the forgotten victims of the civil war in Libya left behind, caged and all alone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Checking your top stories now, first, President Obama is anxious to get his jobs plan before the people, first stop Congress. He is asking to speak to a joint session on September 7. The president said -- quote -- "It is my intention to lay out a series of bipartisan proposals that the Congress can take immediately to continue to rebuild the American economy." But, of course, it will take both sides to get any plan through Capitol Hill.

A Maryland man held in Aruba could be freed. A judge is expected to make a decision on Gary Giordano's release a little later today. Giordano was arrested after his traveling companion, Robyn Gardner, went missing on August 2. Police arrested him when his story on her disappearance just didn't quite add up. Gardner still hasn't been found, but the judge might have to release Giordano simply because there's not enough evidence.

Former NBA player Javaris Crittenton in court today. Crittenton accused of murder in the shooting death of an Atlanta woman, he was arrested in California. Julian Jones was the woman killed during this drive-by shooting earlier this month. Crittenton had played for the Lakers, Grizzlies, and the Wizards.

The Iowa Hawkeyes would like to honor one of the Navy SEALs killed in Afghanistan this month. And his dog will play an important role, we're told, in that ceremony. Do you remember this image? It was Jon Tumilson. He will be honored at one of the two home games as part of the commemoration of Veterans Day. And his dog, Hawkeye, named after the football team, may be the one to lead them on to the field.

Remember Hawkeye laying next to the casket during Tumilson's funeral? The pictures went viral. And his mother says Hawkeye was one of her son's best friends.

Ten years just about now and billions of dollars later, has the U.S. become safer since September 11, 2001? The 9/11's commission report card is out today and the results, let's just say you may be a little surprised. Coming up next, I will speak with Commission Chair Tom Kean. Find out where he says the U.S. is failing badly.

Plus, the never-before-seen video from that day, 9/11, out today. We will be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just into us here at CNN, we have now learned that the White House has announced that the president will travel to Paterson, New Jersey, this Sunday to take a very close look at the damage that, of course, was caused by Tropical Storm Irene over the weekend, the president in New Jersey this Labor Day weekend.

And now nearly 10 years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the commission set up to make sure that never happens again has some harsh words about airline security and several other items. Their new report here coincides with the release of this new FEMA video from Ground Zero in the days just after 9/11.

Now, with regard to this report, 32 of the 9/11 Commission's recommendations have been implemented since that Tuesday back in 2001. But a nagging nine have not. And in today's report here, the panel criticizes a number of issues, including the TSA, saying airline security just isn't quite where it should be.

One of the worries, the failure to detect explosives, which obviously could bring down an airplane. The commission says much has been done, but there is much left to do. That's the final line here of this 19-page report that I know I read.

And former New Jersey Governor Tom Kean is chairman of this bipartisan 9/11 Commission in Washington.

Chairman Kean, good to see you. Thanks for coming on.

THOMAS KEAN, FORMER CO-CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: Thank you.

BALDWIN: First, can I just begin with 32 out of 41, that's not too bad.

KEAN: No. That's very good. And we could emphasize that if we wanted to.

There are a number of things that have been done, although a number of those 32 have been partially implemented. And we still think there's a ways to go.

BALDWIN: OK. I thought we would begin that with glass half- full. But let's get to those nine, the failures that you cite in this report. And I want to hone in specifically on these two shortfalls.

First, this is something we can all relate to. A lot of us fly. And with regard to airline security, while you certainly give props to the TSA for the no-fly list, et cetera, you say that your commission is not satisfied with improvements to TSA for its ability to detect explosives.

How, sir, do we get our technology to catch up?

KEAN: Well, we have to.

The problem is the technology of the people who make bombs is going faster than our ability to detect them. And that can't be. We go through all this elaborate screening now in the airport, and to feel that there are still bombs who can get through that screening is not acceptable.

BALDWIN: Do we have the solutions? Is that the issue?

KEAN: Well, we're working on the solution. And I think we have to work faster. We just got to -- it's just unacceptable.

I mean, we have the no-fly list. We try to keep people off the planes. We're doing a lot of things right. But we finally -- if we're going to go through all this machinery, it should at least be able to detect the latest kind of bombs. And it does not up to this point.

BALDWIN: So there's the issue with the explosives, right? But there is also something many of us can relate to if we fly, the issue with these full-body scanning machines, which your report also cites.

A lot of people, we have covered this extensively, say, hang on, these are way too invasive. They have to be very thorough.

Your report says not so. Why?

KEAN: Well, we don't think they have to be as intrusive as they are now, particularly when they're not able to detect a number of the explosives they're looking for. So we think there are other ways to do it. We think we have to have machines that can detect explosives, but not necessarily have to expose your whole body while doing so.

That's the goal. And that's what we ought to be doing.

BALDWIN: Another failed recommendation, one of these nine you cite in this report, the idea that first-responders need to communicate with one another in the case of a major emergency.

And, Governor Kean, that seems like an easy issue to fix. I worked as a reporter in D.C. for a number of years. I covered this years ago. Why hasn't this happened yet?

KEAN: Well, this is almost among the most outrageous things. We thought this would be done the next day when we made the recommendation.

Look, it costs lives in 9/11 when those policemen couldn't talk to those firemen who were going up the towers. It cost lives in Katrina when people in planes and helicopters couldn't talk to people in boats.

It may be costing lives as we speak with these floods. The idea that police and fire and first-responders cannot communicate because Congress hasn't gotten them the spectrum they need, the so-called D- block, to do it is outrageous. And we thought this would be done within a year or two -- 10 years later, it's still going to cost people lives. And that's unacceptable, totally unacceptable.

BALDWIN: So, the recommendations, they're all outlined in this report. The outrage is certainly there, but what about the action? When will these nine failed recommendations no longer be qualified as failed? Or will they ever?

KEAN: Well, when they do something.

Right now, for instance, the idea of letting police and fire talk to each other, that's a bill that is pending in the United States Congress. The president supported it. And we got to get it done.

There are two approaches. We can do it the public way or the private way. To me, it doesn't really matter very much. We just got to do it, because we cannot allow this to exist, because it's not only a terrorist attack. It could be a hurricane, it could be a flood, it could be any kind of an emergency. But this has got to be done.

And there are a number of other things, but one of the toughest is Congress made a lot of recommendations to reform the federal government. They haven't reformed themselves. They're the only ones who review intelligence because it's secret. You and I can't see what is going on in intelligence. So their oversight is absolutely essential. Well, right now, Homeland Security, for instance, reports to over a hundred committees and subcommittees.

BALDWIN: I saw that.

(CROSSTALK)

KEAN: Yes, they spend so much time testifying, rather than protecting us, which is their primary job. That has to be streamlined. And they have got to be given some financial responsibility too.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Well, let's follow up.

KEAN: OK.

BALDWIN: Let's follow up with you and let's see if these things get done. I think a lot of America will agree with some of these recommendations.

Chairman Tom Kean, thank you very much, sir.

KEAN: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: And the country is in tatters, its deposed dictator still on the run. So who is looking out for Libya's animals. CNN's Nic Robertson actually went inside the zoo in Tripoli.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The zookeeper has just arrived. So I'm going to ask him about the animals.

Assalamu alaikum.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: More of Nic's report here inside this zoo.

Plus, the hunt for the man, for Moammar Gadhafi, why it could end in a dramatic showdown.

And the governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie, expected in just a couple of minutes with Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and the administrator of FEMA, Craig Fugate. We are going to go to that live as soon as it begins there in New Jersey. You can see they're getting set up, ready to roll, certainly a state that the president, as mentioned from the White House moments ago, will be visiting this Sunday -- be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now to Libya. Let's just wrap our heads around the latest situation there. I want you to look at this. Tripoli, the capital, Libyans by the hundreds celebrating their newfound freedom, a freedom rally that also coincided with the end of Ramadan. That's the good part. That plus the fact that Tripoli is now calm.

The bad, there is grumbling mopping the rebels, still no functioning government, and more than half of that city of one million people remains without running water. And Gadhafi? He's still on the loose.

Now, we mentioned it's the end of Ramadan, the holy month, dawn to dusk fasting. And those rebel forces now are fortifying themselves for a possible push into Sirte. Sirte is Moammar Gadhafi's hometown. Its people there still very much so support him. And he may, he may be there.

The rebels are claiming they have Sirte surrounded. They've given the pro-Gadhafi forces until Saturday to surrender or they may move in.

Gadhafi's son Saadi has sent an e-mail to our own correspondent Nic Robertson. Here's what he say about surrendering, quote, "They," meaning the rebels, "They have killed thousands of people and destroyed the country. I'd rather surrender to a real government than to those guys," end quote.

It is unclear if Saadi Gadhafi is in Sirte. Also unknown, whether he's with his father. We have CNN's Fred Pleitgen among the rebels in Sirte. Dan Rivers is back in Tripoli. And Dan, let's get to you, because we have news here. We're hearing that Gadhafi's sons in the last possible minute have spoken on this channel, this pro- Gadhafi channel in Syria. Who have we heard from and ha have they said?

DAN RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, this is Saif al Islam, the second eldest son of Colonel Gadhafi who is speaking right now on this channel. He is -- it's a message of defiance, basically, talking about the high morale amongst the Gadhafi loyalists, talking about settling the score with the "rats" as he describes them, referring to the rebels. He said no one is afraid or frightened.

Mentioning Sirte, he claimed there are 20,000 armed young people ready, willing and able. He said he would decry the media propaganda and said that the leader, Colonel Gadhafi, is fine. He said that the leadership is drinking tea and coffee with our families and fighting.

And he urged his followers and Colonel Gadhafi's followers to move now to attack the gangsters of rats, attack them in every corner you see them. Every Libyan is Moammar Gadhafi. so a message of complete defiance from Saif al Islam. This is the first time, I believe, we've heard from him since the fall of Tripoli. There were suggestions that he had been captured by the rebels initially and then that was sort of later backed away from by the rebel leadership. Now he's speaking on TV in a station coming out of Damascus.

BALDWIN: Let me follow-up with you. I hear the word "rats," and I think of his father, Moammar Gadhafi, he used that word "rats" a number of times as well. If they're settling the score but still drinking tea with their family, is Moammar Gadhafi with them, did he say?

RIVERS: He didn't, no. He used -- I think he still might be speaking. I missed the end of what he said so I haven't got a full picture. The bit that I listened to, he didn't mention where Colonel Gadhafi was. As I mentioned, sort of gave the impression that the leadership is fine. The leader is fine, that they're drinking tea and coffee with families and fighting, giving the impression, anyway that colonel Gadhafi is still in the fight, I suppose, and giving the impression that he is still somewhere in Libya.

BALDWIN: OK. We'll follow-up and see what the end of that said. Thank you for hopping in front of the camera and reporting that, Dan.

Fred Pleitgen, I want to go to you, because we certainly saw a lot of it live on CNN, the carnage two weekends ago in Tripoli. If it comes to a fight in Sirte as we mentioned Gadhafi's hometown, would this be -- could this be Tripoli 2.0?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It could certainly be Tripoli 2.0. It could certainly be worse than the fighting if Tripoli actually was. If you recall, there was an uprising inside of Tripoli that sort of for the rebels to enter that town. It seems as though Sirte itself, that it's very much in the hand of Gadhafi supporters.

I can tell you the latest from the council, the governing body of the rebel forces. They say they're in negotiations with the tribes inside Sirte, including the tribe of Moammar Gadhafi himself. They say that the negotiations are going absolutely nowhere. So right now they're saying they believe they have to launch their offensive most probably on Saturday when these holy days have come to a conclusion.

And I can tell you from being on the frontline, that there are amassing a force there. I've seen dozens of gun trucks moving towards Sirte from the west, from Misrata. They're moving in from the other direction also. We have that city encircled they say and all they're waiting for is to get the order. Then they'll move in. They say that is not going to be pretty, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, Fred, what is the thinking there, that Moammar Gadhafi must be in Sirte? There's the possibility he slipped to the south, a desert hideout in Sabha.

PLEITGEN: There's a lot of speculation that's going on around here. Sabha is certainly one of them. There are rebels who believe that he might be in Sirte and that might be the reason why the tribes are reluctant to actually lay down arms and give up. There is also a belief that he might be in a town called Boni (ph) Mali (ph), which is about 150 kilometers south of Sirte. They say the reason he may be there is because that town is under siege from rebel forces but not totally surrounded, that me might still have the chance to escape to the south if in fact that happened or if the rebels were to attack.

So there is a lot of speculation. There really is very little hard evidence to go around. The rebels do say that no matter what, they are going to have to go into Sirte. They're going to have to take Sirte in some way, shape or form, whether it's by negotiations or force. You don't have a united country ha you can then move forward to institute a democratic change here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: As I mentioned, the deadline the rebels are giving them Saturday. We'll follow-up with you Fred Pleitgen. Thank you.

Dan Rivers, since I have you, one more, because I know we've been getting at CNN all kinds of response to that piece you did on that former Gadhafi nanny who was burned and boiled with hot water. Can you just tell our viewers how they can help? So many want to.

RIVERS: If go to antislavery.org, there is a page, I think its forward/help, there is a page there specifically now set up where you can donate money to help her get the treatment that she needs. We've been working to get that up and running. It's already up and running. Money is already coming in for that. So that's fantastic. And we're now working with other organizations to try and figure out the best way to get her the treatment that she needs.

Basically, she needs skin grafts and surgery. Those pictures, they were tough to look at. But I think they do show the total brutality of the regime right at its heart. The people even charged with looking after Colonel Gadhafi's grandchildren not spared from that inhumane treatment.

BALDWIN: Very difficult to look at but important to tell that part of the story. Dan Rivers thank you, Fred Pleitgen, thank you both very much there live in Libya.

No food, no water, the situation certainly in that country very alarming. The U.N. scrambling to get supplies to the people there. But along with the people are the animals. They too are suffering. Nic Robertson actually checked out Tripoli's zoo where zookeepers struggle to feed the animals and the animals have nowhere to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've just come into the Tripoli's main zoo. The gates were locked. We were told that it had been under renovation for the last three years, that there weren't any animals here. We're getting a look around. I can see a big (INAUDIBLE) you are up there, certainly a huge bird of prey.

As I'm looking at it, we hear a lion roaring. It's an eerie feeling walking around here. You don't know what you're going to bump into. Gunfire still going on. Most of the cages seem empty. We're just trying to follow the sound of that roaring. There he is. There he is, a tiger. He's seen us. Just looking at him, you can see how thin he is and the way that he's walking. Those back thighs are so skinny against his back. He's going in there to get some shade.

Then we see the lions, the male particularly skinny, with a deep scar on his head. There's no one to tell us how much they're getting fed or how often. We don't know if there's a vet to look after them. All we've seen so far is the food left by the giant tortoises. The lions look like they're not getting enough to eat.

Suddenly, we get some answers. The zookeeper just arrived. I'm going to see if I can get answers.

How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine.

ROBERTSON: Fine, fine. So what about the animals? Are they getting enough food, the lions, the tigers?

He tells me for seven days the animals got nothing. Now 10 of the 200 have returned. They're trying to feed all the animals. The big cats get only half the food they need. But their biggest problem is water. He takes us to see the hippos. Of all the animals, they seem the most forlorn.

ROBERTSON: The keeper tells us he tried to get more water in here. Even laid this plastic pipe on the floor right into the tank here where the hippopotami. But it didn't work. They're left with that rank, fettered water even they don't seem to want to go into.

They're struggling to keep up. So many animals to feed -- hyenas, bears, monkeys, deer, emus. But it's the big cats, the meat eaters, they can't feed enough. Water is these animals most pressing need. It seems without help in these sweltering temperatures, all the animals here are going to continue to suffer.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Tripoli, Libya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Parents, I know kids can be frustrating. But this next one is a story you may not believe. A father accused of tossing his seven-year-old son off a sightseeing boat, a charge he denies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SLOANE BRILES, FATHER: I discussed it with him. We jumped in together and just thought, OK, it would be funny. Ha ha ha.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But the more than 80 eyewitnesses, they don't think it's so funny, ha ha ha. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK. Take a look at this guy, close picture up. We're going to talk about him at length later. Orange County, California, his mug shot here. He was arrested Sunday for allegedly throwing his son from this sightseeing boat and straight into a very crowded harbor, a harbor teeming with other boats. Why did he do it? Police say punishment. He says no way. He and his son were just horsing around.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you hadn't been drinking, do you think you would have done it?

BRILES: Absolutely. It was water. You're in the water. You go to water just to look at it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you threw him in in his clothes?

BRILES: We have more clothes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Witnesses say Brills he was drunk at the time, and according to one, "acting like a jerk." We're going to hear more from about this guy next hour. We're also going to hear from a spokesman for the Orange County sheriff's office. Stay tuned for that next hour.

Also, go to college, get a degree. It's advice millions of parents of course give their own children. But it comes at a cost. Is a college degree today worth the price? Some aren't so sure about that anymore. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Before college, I just wanted to pull up this live picture. This is Lincoln Park in New Jersey. All kinds of people are waiting. We're waiting to hear from FEMA administrator Craig Fugate and Janet Napolitano and the governor of the state, Chris Christie. We're waiting for it to start. Obviously they'll be talking Irene and recovery from Irene. We'll bring it to you live momentarily.

Now to this. Whether you're saving for your kids' tuition or you're co-signing a loan or paying off your own student debt, you know the cost of college it is skyrocketing. CNN is taking an in-depth look at higher education and the high price these days of a college degree. For a lot of young people it means looking at the payoff to a degree and what it will bring and sometimes saying college isn't for me.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN SMITH, EDUCATION OVERTIME: Meet Eduardo Sanchez, a rising senior at Compton high school who's working this summer in the family business.

EDUARDO SANCHEZ, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: I'd rather be in school than this.

SMITH: But this is one way he could afford to go to college like his three older brothers. Eduardo's father insists it's the only way he can get his fair share of the American dream.

SANCHEZ: He wants me to succeed.

SMITH: But thousands miles away is another young adult who's been working in his family business for years, but his takeaway is different. Eighteen-year-old Carl Wesley Daniel, a recent high school grad whose Georgia family is begging him to go to college, has his own ideas about how to achieve his American dream.

CARL WESLEY DANIEL, HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE: I think college is an experience for people to go to life and how to learn to deal with people and certain situations. And my whole life, I've dealt with every situation that's come to pass. For me, it wouldn't be sufficient for me to go and spend the money to go to school when I've had the life experience.

SMITH (on camera): The crisis facing Carl and a sea of seniors is this question, is college really worth it? With the cost of tuition going way, way up, and the employment rates of college grads plummeting, there's a growing movement that says college isn't always the answer.

(voice-over) Even Eduardo with his three college-educated brothers as role models, is seeing that a degree is no guarantee for healthy employment. He's seen it play out in real life, watching one of his college-educated brothers, an architect, struggle.

SANCHEZ: He's having trouble working. But he's always looking for any job to get money.

SMITH: And money-making is key here, especially if you do go to college, because for those giddy grads, most of them leave college with a degree and on average $24,000 in debt. So the question is facing seniors and their parents is, at this rate, will going to college really pay off for anyone? It won't, say many experts, among them Dr. Robert Lerman. He thinks we need to rethink the way we view college.

DR. ROBERT LERMAN, EDUCATION EXPERT: We have a very strong education only bias. So the educators look at academic skills, mainly.

SMITH: Lerman is pushing, among other things, an apprenticeship program that's worked in other countries.

LERMAN: An apprenticeship program is occupational training that comes in the form of work-based learning and you actually have a job. You're earning money while you're learning at the workplace.

SMITH: But other alternatives to overpriced schools might be community colleges, online courses or even getting a job, like Eduardo and Carl.

(voice-over) In the end, it might come down to the way these seniors and parents rate the value of a college degree, if they think the bang of higher learning is all the earning they have to get it.

For Education Overtime, I'm Ryan Snow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Ryan, thank you.

So if you were with me right around this time yesterday, if you were watching our show, you might have seen Wolf Blitzer giving me and my crew here a bit of a tough time. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": I don't want to be on "Dancing with the Stars," but I was waiting for you to show the video of me dancing on television. But you and your producers obviously messed up --

BALDWIN: Hang -- slow your role, Blitzer. We tried to look for the jib-jab video, you and me doing the salsa.

BLITZER: Forget about the jib-jab. What about when I really danced on television twice?

BALDWIN: The Dougie?

BLITZER: On the BET Soul Train Awards, remember?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, Mr. Blitzer, here in Atlanta with me today, let's just see if he can put his money where his mouth is. Forget about dancing on tape. Hold that thought. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: So he was upset with me that we didn't get the dance video yesterday. Well, Wolf Blitzer, Roger, cue the music. Louder, guys. Oh, come on, you should be dancing.

(MUSIC)

BLITZER: I don't see you dancing. Is that the best you can do?

I want to see the Dougie.

BALDWIN: No, I want to see the Dougie. I've never seen it in my life.

BLITZER: Let's talk.

BALDWIN: I might be lying.

BLITZER: The BET Soul Train Awards was really good.

BALDWIN: That was in Atlanta, right?

BLITZER: That's me. Doing the Dougie.

BALDWIN: Please, Blitzer. Please!

BLITZER: This is the one that drives me crazy. Watch.

BALDWIN: I have you in person. The people want the Dougie.

BLITZER: I need music. Where's the music?

BALDWIN: Magic. I've got the people.

BLITZER: That's not the music.

Let's talk about the president's big address. It's a make-or- break speech next week Wednesday night.

BALDWIN: September 7th, talk to me.

BLITZER: Joint session -- is it joint session or joint meeting?

BALDWIN: I thought it was session.

BLITZER: I think it's a joint meeting, technically. But I could be wrong. He's going to do it -- he's got to deliver a jobs plan. Unemployment 9.1 percent. But a lot of people, not only unemployed or underemployed. He's got to show people he's on the right track as opposed to the wrong track. So it's going to be a big, big speech.

BALDWIN: We still don't know the day he's giving that?

BLITZER: Wednesday night, 8:00 p.m. That's when he's asked Congress for permission. I don't know if Congress has formerly authorized it, but Wednesday night, 8:00, we'll of course have live coverage here. BALDWIN: It was Jessica Yellin who was reporting, our White House correspondent. She's saying it was a joint session --

BLITZER: Yes, we always say joint session. But I think technically there's a difference between a joint meeting, and I expect you to get that precise.

BALDWIN: I expected you to Dougie but we're just two disappointed people today.

BLITZER: Maybe I'll do it on my own show, broadcasting from here, 5:00 p.m. eastern, "THE SITUATION ROOM."

BALDWIN: But back to that night, there's also a GOP debate --

BLITZER: Apparently they're going ahead with that.

BALDWIN: They are?

BLITZER: Yes. Maybe they'll delay it a half hour or something.

BALDWIN: Do you like being here?

BLITZER: I love being here. You know why I'm here. The CNN dialogue is tonight at the Carter Center coming up later tonight about the 2010 census and how America has changed.

BALDWIN: At the carter center. I'll be with you. Wolf Blitzer, thank you very much.

BLITZER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And now, take a look at this -- oh, no. There he is, New Jersey governor Chris Christie. Take a listen.

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF A LIVE EVENT)