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Restore, Repair, Recover in Vermont After Tropical Storm Irene; White House Briefing on Jobs and Economy; Smaller vs. Larger College Campuses: How Students Find the Right Fit; Arizona GOP Raffles Off Glock Gun; Danger: Automation Addiction; International Meeting on Libya
Aired September 01, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: A new hour brings new hope from Vermont Emergency Management. Referring to the ravages of Tropical Storm Irene, a spokesman says, and I quote, "The worst is over."
That may come as news to thousands of Vermonters who still don't have power or who still can't get in or out of their homes or towns, or who have lost their homes or businesses. But four days after Irene came and went, food and supplies are now reaching all the towns that had been entirely cut off.
Crews have scrambled to build makeshift roads for emergency vehicles only into 13 isolated communities, and National Guard helicopters are going where ATVs can't. Some of the 16 helicopters now on the job are actually on loan from New Hampshire, right next door, and Illinois, hundreds of miles away.
CNN's Amber Lyon is in the devastated Vermont town of Wilmington.
Amber, do the folks there that you've met believe that the worst is over?
AMBER LYON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they do, because the worst for them was terrifying when these floodwaters swept through town. And Randi, we're talking flash floods. They had no warning.
Within an eight-hour time span, this river, the main river in town, crested all the way up -- take a look at that -- 30 feet to where you're seeing the bottom of that tin roof. And then it fizzled out, but now without, as you can see, damage here on Dot's Restaurant, causing quite a bit of damage to these businesses.
Now, we're starting to see people able to get in and out of town. This main road is open, but only people who are assisting with the relief efforts, also assisting with the cleanup efforts.
It's quite dusty out here. They have seen sewage, fuel floating in the river, so they have passing out these masks to make sure everyone doesn't breathe in any harmful chemicals or dust.
And I'm joined now by John and Patty Reagan. And they own Dot's restaurant. Dot's Restaurant, Randi, I've got to tell you, form everyone I've talked to here in town, it is a staple here in town, and people have been walking by. You see the sign on the door, "We love John and Patty and Dot's."
We saw the side of your restaurant. Today, everything around town is moved from collecting damaged goods to now, inspectors are hitting the buildings, trying to see if the foundations are solid.
What do you guys think is going to happen? We currently have inspectors over here right now.
PATTY REAGAN, OWNER, DOT'S RESTAURANT: Well, they did just tell us that they are going to try to figure out a way to shore up the foundation so that we can at least get in. And I think they are still actually determining whether or not they can -- it can be salvaged. So it's kind of a waiting game right now. The ball is in their court, I guess, as they say.
JOHN REAGAN, OWNER, DOT'S RESTAURANT: It's anxious. I'm anxious. You know, I want to find out if she goes.
P. REAGAN: Then we'll move on to the next phase of life, I guess. It will probably always be -- we'll have to do something, if the town lets us. It's up to this town and the state, and whether they are going to even let us. And even if we can get insured again, I mean, being on the river and the flood plain, they might say you're in a terrible --
LYON: All right. Best of luck to you guys.
And they do have flood insurance, unlike some other businesses we've talked to here in the town.
And if we can -- Tom, you can zoom in on those inspectors, they will be going around all of these buildings here in the center, testing the foundations, like John and Patty said, seeing if these structures will be able to reopen. And it's definitely a waiting game for a lot of businesses out here, as you can imagine -- Randi.
KAYE: I'm sure. So is the aid getting through, or with all those roads so badly damaged, that it's just not making its way in?
LYON: Yes. The aid is making its way in.
At one point we were telling you that 20 communities across this state were isolated because the roads and bridges leading in and out of town had been destroyed. This was one of those communities.
But now we just spoke with Vermont emergency officials. They say that all 20 communities are now accessible by road.
However, that being said, 13 of those communities are in still such poor condition, that the residents aren't allowed to leave. The only people being allowed in and out are emergency officials bringing relief supplies, like the National Guard and Vermont Emergency Management.
Also, Randi, here in this town, we've got police officers over there blocking off this road, so this town isn't even completely accessible yet. I mean, you just see them setting down that yellow barrier. They are checking everyone that comes in and out. We had to get a pass to come in here to make sure that they are only with relief crews, because regular people cannot get through this highway.
KAYE: Got it. All right. Well, Amber Lyon, thank you for the update. Appreciate that.
I mentioned crews and helicopters from the Vermont National Guard and elsewhere are airlifting aid to cut-off Vermont communities. Well, joining me now via Skype from the town of Colchester is Major General Michael Dubie, adjunct General of the state of Vermont.
General, thank you so much for your time.
Can you tell us what the Guard is doing to help Vermonters as we speak?
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL DUBIE, VERMONT ADJUNCT GENERAL: Well, we've been extremely busy. We transitioned from a search and rescue mission to a mission of sustainment. And the towns that were just mentioned about being isolated, you know, the governor has made it a priority for us to have some type of road access, but that doesn't mean that people can come and go, because most of those roads that we've opened up -- the idea is to have emergencies that we can maybe get some of our people out.
Most of what we're doing the last couple of days has been by helicopters to bring food, water, medicine, cots, tarps, that kind of stuff, and by truck, by helicopter. And then we will transition to more aid via road, you know, once the roads get a little bit more improved, but it's still rudimentary.
KAYE: How many towns have you actually reached by air?
DUBIE: Oh, I'm going to say probably 16 to 18 towns by air. I was at a number of towns this morning, and I will tell you, one of the towns had been isolated for a while, Wilmington. It really was in tough shape.
I was there with the governor on Monday. The resilience of these people is inspiring. I mean, we got into the high school, there was a meeting going on. I got hugged. I got thanked.
They just kept saying thank you to the National Guard. It was inspiring that they really appreciated the water and the food we brought in, and now we're trying to open up the town.
KAYE: Now, I understand that all six of your Black Hawk helicopters were actually not even in the state. They were diverted to Iraq.
How much was that a problem for you? Did that hinder your efforts there?
DUBIE: Well, you know, we knew that the deployment is coming to an end, the Iraq deployment. And we always had plans that we'd rely on our neighbors or, in this case, Illinois was standing by because they had pre-positioned the helicopters into upstate New York, specifically to aid someone like Vermont, where our Black Hawks were overseas.
I will tell you that it was a seamless integration of Illinois and New Hampshire. I spoke to a number of those crews this morning. I thanked them on behalf of the Guard and the citizens.
And one of the Illinois pilots said, "Sir, we're just helping out our neighbor just like you helped out us when we have an emergency." So it's very -- you know, it's tragic, and the damage is -- it's hard to describe the damage over our small little state, but even so --
KAYE: I know you said it was seamless, and there was a plan in place, but the spokesman actually, your spokesman, was quoted in the Burlington paper as saying that it would have been a very different scenario had you had your Black Hawks there. Do you agree with that? Would it have been easier?
DUBIE: I don't feel that way at all. I think that they were standing by, and they came -- now, we had four helicopters in the state. You know, National Guard helicopters. We just didn't have our Black Hawks.
So we immediately started flying the two Lakotas and the two OH- 58s that we had. So it's really been a team effort, and I wouldn't characterize any delay in the helicopters when we needed them.
KAYE: Are you satisfied with the federal response as well?
DUBIE: Yes. I need to tell you that FEMA has been incredibly helpful. Vermont Emergency Management, you know, we work together really well all the time. But FEMA has come in, and clearly having Administrator Fugate come to visit and to travel around the state was a big shot in the arm.
Even though we're up here in the Northeast, it said that we weren't forgotten. And we appreciate the federal response and the synergism between all the state agencies. And, you know, we have people from Maine, New Hampshire, Illinois, and we expect we'll probably have some other states that are going to help us as we transition to the next phase of rebuilding.
KAYE: Major General Dubie, appreciate your time, and best of luck to you there. Thank you.
DUBIE: Thanks.
KAYE: For months, the Libyan rebels have been fighting and dying to free their country from Gadhafi's rule. Now they are mapping out plans for Libya's future. That is the topic of an international meeting under way in Paris.
We'll have live reports from Paris and Tripoli right after this.
And we are waiting for the White House briefing to start. There's the two-minute warning. That's what that means for folks who may not know. We're waiting for that White House briefing to start. We're expecting Press Secretary Jay Carney to face some pretty tough questions about this whole back-and-forth over the president's jobs speech and the schedule for it.
So be sure to stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: And let's take you to the White House now for the briefing under way.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
QUESTION: Budget projections that just came out predict 9 percent unemployment next year, when the president is facing re- election, and 1.7 percent growth this year.
Does the White House believe that the jobs initiative that the president is going to announce next week would change those projections for the positive?
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, absolutely. As I mentioned yesterday, I think as I mentioned earlier this week, the president will come forward with specific proposals that by any objective measure, would add to growth and job creation in the short term. And that will be part of a broad package that reflects his commitment to grow the economy now, and to build a foundation for economic growth for the future, to ensure that we win the future. So the answer to that is yes.
QUESTION: So if Congress were to pass the package that the president is going to announce, unemployment would be under 9 percent?
CARNEY: I think based on -- when you're talking about economic predictions, yes, economic analysts, economists, will be able to look at this series of proposals and say that based on history, based on what we know, based on their collected expertise, that it would add to economic growth and it would cause an increase in job creation.
QUESTION: Given the flack yesterday over the date and timing of this speech, is there anything --
CARNEY: What flack?
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: There was a little bit of a flack. Is there anything that the White House would have done differently in retrospect in terms of consulting with the Hill before announcing the joint session?
CARNEY: Our focus from the beginning was to have the president have the opportunity to speak to the American people and to Congress, in front of Congress, at the soon as possible date upon Congress' return from its long recess. Wednesday seemed to be the best option. When that wasn't available, or when that seemed to be a problem, Thursday was fine with us. And we were just looking forward to -- the president is looking forward to the opportunity to talk about what the American people really care about, the economy, and the need to create more jobs so we're focused on that.
QUESTION: So you would have gone through that process the same way?
CARNEY: Look, all we care about here is that we address the issues that are most important. We're certainly not interested in, you know, sort of inside-the-beltway political, you know, gamesmanship.
What we are interested in is coming up with proposals that make sense, that can grow the economy, can create jobs, that by historical standards, would have broad bipartisan support. And that if Congress comes back from their districts -- members of Congress come back from their districts and their states with the same sense of urgency that the president has, and having heard from their constituents the same things that the president heard when he went on his bus tour through the upper Midwest, everyone will come back with the same amount of urgency and focus to get this done, because what the president will propose can get done, should get done, and will benefit the country.
QUESTION: Just on one other topic, the Justice Department's lawsuit to block the AT&T/T-Mobile merger, should that be viewed as the administration taking a more aggressive approach on antitrust?
CARNEY: This is a law enforcement action on about which you should direct your questions to the Department of Justice. It's based on a law that is designed to foster competition and protect American consumers, but beyond that, I would refer you to the Department of Justice.
Yes?
QUESTION: Jay, Democrats are unifying around the advice that the president needs to go bold in his speech. Is that the way you would characterize the proposals that he's going to roll out? And are there certain high expectations that one creates when you do a joint session of Congress speech?
CARNEY: I'll leave it to you and others to characterize the speech in the terms that you just described. What will be the case and the reason why the president wants to speak before Congress is because this is an important moment in our economy, and it is an important moment for the American people, who are demanding that Washington put an end to the gridlock and bickering that has paralyzed the process here and take action to help the economy, to create jobs, to help them.
That's what they want. They don't want -- they are not out there scoring political points. They want -- the vast majority of Americans, whether they voted Democratic or Republican, whether they are registered with a party or not, they want Washington to work for them. They want them to take sensible actions to work for them to create jobs, to grow the economy.
That's what this speech will be about. That's what the concrete proposals the president puts forward will be about.
QUESTION: Economists, when you talk to them and ask them what would constitute bold, broad figures like $400 billion in fiscal stimulus, is he looking at anything on that scale? Is he going to give specifics about how many jobs he thinks his package might create when he unveils it?
CARNEY: I will not preview the speech any more than I really have, except to say that it will focus on the need to grow the economy and create jobs. It will be --
KAYE: All right. You've been listening there, as we just dipped into the White House press briefing there.
Jay Carney, spokesman, taking some questions about jobs, along with some other things, saying this is an important moment for the president. Talk of a bold plan that will be presented, saying that the American people would like an end to the gridlock and the bickering in Washington.
No kidding, right? So we'll see if this all brings it to an end.
Well, more than 100 witnesses, tapes, forensics. The family and Fullerton, California, community may soon be getting answers about the alleged beating death of a homeless man. We'll speak with the D.A. about this investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: College has already started for millions of students across the country. Before enrolling, they had a decision to make -- attend a large university with all the fancy upgrades and name recognition, or a smaller university.
CNN's George Howell goes "In Depth" to see what's affecting students' decisions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): College life on a large campus.
ELLIE KRIEL (ph), STUDENT, GEORGIA TECH: There are screens everywhere that tell you the sustainability of the building, so you go upstairs and you see the rooftop garden.
HOWELL: A long list of attractions made Ellie Kriel (ph) decide to attend a big university like Georgia Tech, and the excitement of college football.
KRIEL: You go out on game day and there are alumni that have graduated two years ago and graduated 40 years ago, all coming back because they love Georgia Tech. HOWELL: All part of what the school's director of undergraduate admissions describes as a diverse marketing package.
RICK CLARK, DIRECTOR, UNDERGRADUATE ADMISSIONS, GEORGIA TECH: The marketing dollars that are out there really come from a lot of different avenues and angles, and that's probably something that a larger -- especially a research -- university is going to have maybe an advantage over a smaller school.
HOWELL: From a campus of more than 20,000 students, to nearby Clayton State University.
TAYLOR JOHNSON (ph), STUDENT, CLAYTON STATE UNIVERSITY: If you're serious about wanting to go straight to school, you know, get your education and go to your career, then a small school is great.
HOWELL: Taylor Johnson (ph) decided this smaller school was the right fit with record enrollment this year of 6,900 students.
JOHNSON: And this is where you want to come. For, like, pharmacy and biology majors, this is the place to be.
HOWELL (on camera): How do you cut through the noise? How do you get students to think about Clayton State?
BETTY MOMAYEZI, DIRECTOR, RECRUITMENT AND ADMISSIONS, CLAYTON STATE UNIVERSITY: How we cut through the noise is we're very active in the high schools. We go to lots of college fairs. We do lots of one-on-one.
HOWELL (voice-over): The director of recruitment and admissions at Clayton State, Betty Momayezi, says the university also has plenty of new and renovated facilities. But there's another key factor -- the cost.
MOMAYEZI: I know we're one of the least expensive schools in the university system of Georgia.
HOWELL: That's especially important during a recession, and the university's president sees the difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of those students are older students who are also looking for an opportunity to access quality higher education.
TODD WILLIAMS, STUDENT, CLAYTON STATE UNIVERSITY: The class sizes are very small. I have great access (ph) to teachers.
HOWELL: Todd Williams transferred to Clayton State from a larger university, so he knows the best of both worlds.
(on camera): For some students it's all about smaller class sizes, a closer connection to their teachers. But at larger universities, you can find classes like this, where there are more than 100 people in a class. (voice-over): At the end of the day, Williams says students have to decide what's important to them as colleges compete for their attention.
George Howell, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: And be sure to stay with CNN. Our "In Depth" series on the cost of college continues through tomorrow.
If you've been watching this show, you know that we've been closely following the case of a man named Kelly Thomas, the homeless man in Fullerton, California, who was allegedly beaten to death by Fullerton police. It's been nearly two months since his beating. The Orange County district attorney now says his office is close to finishing its investigation.
We'll get the update from the D.A. directly in just a moment.
If you don't know this story, be warned. The picture I'm about to show you is graphic, but I want you to see it so you can understand the sheer brutality involved in this man's death and why the D.A.'s investigation is so critical. Take a look.
This is Kelly Thomas before and after the alleged beating on July 5th. Witnesses say this was done at the hands of six Fullerton police officers responding to reports of car burglaries.
Others saw what happened, recording what they could with their phones and with surveillance cameras nearby. Those recordings will be key to the D.A.'s investigation. We want to point out the Fullerton police chief and the six officers allegedly involved in Thomas' beating are still on paid leave.
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas joins me now from Irvine, California.
Tony, thank you very much for your time.
TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY, CA., DISTRICT ATTORNEY: My pleasure.
KAYE: When do you expect that you will finish the investigation into Kelly Thomas' beating?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, we're very close to having everything that we need as far as the evidence all gathered at this point. You know, it's just a matter of getting the reports together and maybe analyzing a few things.
But we're still waiting, of course, for the autopsy report from the sheriff's department, so it's pretty tough to put a date on it, or an exact time period. But I can say that we've made a great deal of progress and, you know, as far as the substance of it, we're pretty close to having it completed. KAYE: And you said you're waiting for the autopsy. How critical is that? And are you waiting for any other key pieces of evidence?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, the autopsy will give us the cause of death, and, I mean, we already have a preliminary opinion from the autopsy surgeon, but there were some lab analyses that had to be done, and then some additional ones after that. So, you know, I think it's important for us to have that to wrap everything up so that we have all of the -- all of the information.
And as far as other evidence that we're still looking for, I think we're pretty close to having everything. As we view the evidence and go through, of course, there's always a question about this or that that we want to wrap up, so things will be coming up.
KAYE: Now, in terms of witnesses, I understand you've interviewed more than 100 witnesses. Without telling us too many details -- I know you can't share much -- but are they giving you the same story? Are their tales in line with each other?
RACKAUCKAS: We've interviewed well over 100 witnesses at this point. We're up to 150 or so now.
And, of course, they fall into very different categories. Some witnesses or some of the people interviewed didn't really see or hear anything, and others saw, you know, one relatively small thing or another. And there are those who might be very, you know, completely honest and others who, you know, may not be reporting things so very faithfully.
So it's kind of a mix. I mean, you have that many people. But this subject, of course, quite emotional and so it's -- we have to -- we kind of have to sift through to see -- to see which witnesses are the most valuable, of course.
KAYE: I want to ask you about the policy because when you look at the before and after pictures of Kelly Thomas, there's no question that this man was violently beaten. That's not a question. It's a matter of why and how it happened and who was involved.
But is there any type of policy as far as you know to explain such force?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, the policy that I'm interested in is the law, and the law says that -- that a police officer in the performance of a lawful duty has the right to use reasonable force to -- to effect that duty. So, if it's a lawful detention or arrest and there's -- and there's resistance, then, of course, the police officers can use reasonable force to overcome that resistance.
So, the question becomes whether or not in the -- whether or not in the mind of a reasonable person, this -- this force is -- is reasonable and necessary under all of the circumstances of the case. So, that's -- that's the policy that we're looking at.
KAYE: And just very quickly, I want to ask you about some of the evidence because the word is that Kelly Thomas was allegedly tasered. He was hogtied. He was hit in the face with either a flashlight or the butt of a taser gun.
Is that evidence something that you're looking at as well? Or, are you looking for fingerprints or things like that on those pieces of evidence?
RACKAUCKAS: Of course, we're looking at all of the evidence, all of the -- all of the things that -- that happened to him and -- and what might be the reasons for that. Certainly whether or not the force and the detention were lawful in the first place, all of those questions have to be answered, and they are being answered by a view of the evidence, the kind of evidence that you described as well as the -- as well as the video and what the witnesses -- various witnesses saw and the reports and so forth.
KAYE: Tony Rackauckas, Orange County district attorney, we know that you have a big case on your hands and we are anxious to learn the findings, as soon as you're ready to share them with us. So, thank you for your time today.
RACKAUCKAS: Thank you. Thank you very much.
KAYE: Coming up: fund-raising in the name of politics is nothing new, but you will be shocked at what Arizona Republicans are raveling off and its connection to Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Let's check in on some top stories that we're monitoring and some stories that you might have missed today. As the East Coast struggles to recover from Irene, we have our eye on hurricane Katia. You're looking at current satellite image of the second hurricane of the season in the Atlantic.
Katia is more than 100 miles east of the Leeward Islands and is projected to pass north of the Caribbean. Katia is already a category 1 storm and is expected to strengthen into a major hurricane in the next 48 hours.
Joran van der Sloot, once a suspect in the disappearance of Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway, is now charged with murdering a Peruvian woman, Stephany Flores, back in May 2010. Flores was found dead in his Lima hotel room. Prosecutors are asking for a 30-year prison sentence and $73,000 for the victim's family.
He's charged with murder as of now but is also charged with theft. Van der Sloot was arrested last June wasn't formally charged until now. No date has been set for the trial.
The porn industry condom fight moves to Florida. The AIDS Healthcare Foundation filed complaints with Florida state health officials on Wednesday. It wants them to ensure all porn industry workers are protected from the threat of a sexually transmitted disease. This just two days after a male model tested positive for HIV in Los Angeles County ordered a temporary shutdown of adult film making there.
And this man may be a bit old, but he sure is young at heart. Alan Moore is working hard to become the oldest college football player ever. The 61-year-old wants the Faulkner -- he wants to be the Faulkner University kicker, and there's a chance that he could land the spot.
CNN affiliate WSFA reports university officials just need to clear up a few eligibility concerns before the former college football player and Vietnam veteran can take the field once again.
Arizona Republicans are fund-raising by raffling off, get this, a Glock pistol. It's important to point out that it is the same kind of gun that was pointed at Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords head and used to shoot her point blank. Take a lack at this newsletter sent out by the Pima County Republican Party last Friday.
This giveaway is to help raise funds so the county Republicans can get out to vote. People can purchase a raffle ticket for $10 for a handgun. And, again, it's not just any gun, better yet, the raffle Glock comes pre-loaded with grips, a case and three magazines.
I want to bring in the Pima County GOP chairman pro tem, Mike Shaw involved in putting together this newsletter. Mike is joining us via Skype from Tucson.
Mike, this had a lot of us shaking our heads today. Jared Loughner is accused of seriously wounding Gabrielle Giffords, killing six people, including a little girl, and a federal judge with a Glock just like the one you're raffling off. But considering what we know about the shooting rampage in Tucson which is the seat of Pima County, why raffle this Glock?
MIKE SHAW, CHAIRMAN PRO TEM, PIMA COUNTY GOP: Well, there's a couple of things I'd like to point out there. First of all, it was the actions of Jared Loughner that -- that happened during the Tucson shooting. So, Jared was responsible. He could have used any type of weapon. And he chose to use a Glock -- I think it's a Glock 19. We've raffling a Glock 23, which is a slightly different weapon.
But, again, it was his actions that -- that are responsible for what happened during the Tucson shooting. And so, really, the arguments about what happened here in Tucson shouldn't be about the weapon. It's about the person who took the actions, you know.
We have a Second Amendment in the Constitution. There's a reason the Bill of Rights are the top 10 amendments to the constitution because the Founding Fathers thought it was important that we would have rights in this country, and a very important run is the right to keep and bear arms, one that Gabrielle Giffords believes in strongly herself.
And so, the reason why we have this particular -- I'm sorry?
KAYE: No, finish your sentence. SHAW: OK. Well, the reason why we have this particular gun for raffle is it's actually a holdover from last year. It was a gun that we raffled before the November election. The person who won the raffle hasn't picked it up yet. So, we decided to raffle it again and then take the proceeds if the person still wants to pick up their -- the winning from last year, then we'll take part of the proceeds from this raffle to buy another one.
KAYE: OK. So, I hear what you're saying. Obviously not everybody who gets a Glock is going to do what Jared Loughner did, thankfully. But do you think that this might be considered just a bit insensitive to the congresswoman -- and the other family members who are involved?
SHAW: Well, we certainly did not. Again, it's the actions of Jared Loughner that were taken that day. It was not the weapon that he used.
I have a quote from -- from one of Giffords' spokespeople in "The Arizona Capital Times," March of 2008, when Congresswoman Giffords was standing against the gun ban in Washington, D.C., and the spokesman quotes saying Giffords owns a Glock handgun and regards gun ownership as a constitutional right and an Arizona tradition -- and I really can't say it any better than that.
We have the constitutional rights to keep and bear arms. Republicans and Democrats alike in the state of Arizona and across the country own guns for sport and for self-defense, and law-abiding citizens have that right.
KAYE: Well, I know that the congresswoman, an interim spokesman at least for her office told "The Huffington Post" had no comment. I look at the ad and it says help Pima GOP get out the vote and maybe help yourself to a new Glock. Couldn't you maybe have raffled off something else?
SHAW: Well, again, it was a holdover from last year.
KAYE: I understand. But maybe you could have just held on to it.
SHAW: Again, I didn't think there was any impropriety because it's the actions of Jared Loughner that caused that tragedy.
KAYE: Aren't you ever worried about somebody else doing something wrong with that weapon?
SHAW: Absolutely not. We have millions of gun owners in this country, law-abiding citizens. It was gun owners that kept Jared Loughner from reloading his weapon during the Tucson shooting. Gun ownership is, again, a constitutional right and I stand on that, stand on the Constitution.
KAYE: Whose idea was this, by the way?
SHAW: Well, again, we have gun raffles from time to time as fund-raisers, so this isn't unusual. And, again, this particular gun was a holdover from last year and so that is why we're having another gun raffle so that we can raise some money to get out the vote. We have some great candidates on the ballot.
KAYE: This is the first gun raffle since the shooting there, correct?
SHAW: That is correct.
KAYE: OK. Mike Shaw, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. So we thank you for your time, and -- and we'll check back in with you.
SHAW: Thank you so much for having me on. This Skype thing is pretty cool.
KAYE: All right. Mike Shaw, chairman pro tem Pima County GOP.
Addicted to autopilot. A new report suggests relying on computers can weaken a pilot's ability to respond when airplane systems fail. Is there a danger in the air? We'll take a closer look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Airline pilots are experiencing what's being called "automation addiction." A new report says pilots are relying too much on autopilot and other automated flight systems. It says this is a dangerous trend that impairs their ability to respond to cockpit emergencies.
CNN's Brian Todd has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): June 2009, the autopilot system on Air France Flight 447 disconnects. A stall warning goes off. A co-pilot repeatedly says, "Climb," points the nose up. It's the opposite of what he's supposed to do.
The pilot comes into the cockpit and says, "No, no, no. Don't climb."
It's too late. The Airbus A-330 plummets into the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 228 people on board.
An investigation revealed questions about the pilots' training and their ability to respond to surprises.
KEVIN HIATT, FORMER AIRLINE PILOT: They were misreading their cues and, therefore, unfortunately the aircraft continued its stall.
TODD: Former airline pilot Kevin Hiatt is part of a group of independent experts out with a new report commissioned by Congress and loosely overseen by the FAA. They found that, overall, pilots are relying too much on autopilot systems. HIATT: They're becoming very dependent upon using the autopilot, the auto throttles, the auto flight system, the computers to actually operate the entire flight.
TODD (on camera): And they're getting rusty as a result of this?
HIATT: Yes, because what happens is you don't actually hand fly or manipulate the controls, where it's a control yolk or a side stick controller. Therefore, your computer skills get greatly enhanced, but your flying skills start to get rusty.
TODD (voice-over): It's sometimes called automation addiction. January, 2009, as the Colgan Air regional plane approaches Buffalo, New York, the pilot countermands what the computer tells him to do to get out of a stall. The plane crashes, killing 50 people.
Hiatt and his panel say it's another example of a pilot possibly forgetting some key procedures.
(on camera): Kevin Hiatt and other experts say part of the problem is that standards have evolved to the point where, in recent years, pilots have only been flying manually for between 1 1/2 and 3 minutes of every flight at takeoff and landing.
(voice-over): And these days, Hiatt says, landings can also be done on autopilot. Experts say the problem may get worse because of the way younger pilots are trained.
JIM TILMON, FORMER COMMERCIAL PILOT: When you bring on a new pilot who has not been through some of the things the older guys have, they've never flown an airplane that had anything but some computer activity on it. They don't understand what to do necessarily when something goes wrong with that computer.
TODD: The authors of the new report say this is not really the fault of the FAA or anyone in particular. It's just how the technology and standards have evolved over the years.
The FAA would not comment on the roar. The Airline Pilots Association e-mailed CNN saying the safety of airline operations today is a testament to the high levels of skill brought to the cockpit by the professional airline pilot.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: For months, the Libyan rebels have been fighting and dying to free their country from Gadhafi's rule. Now, they are mapping out plans for Libya's future. That is the topic of an international meeting underway in Paris, and we'll have live reports from Paris and Tripoli right after this.
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KAYE: The future of Libya without Moammar Gadhafi. Forty-two years ago, he came to power in a military coup. Now, he's on the run. His whereabouts still a mystery.
But what's not a mystery is the fact that Libya's fate is now in the hands of the rebels who have fought and died for months to overthrow the Gadhafi regime. The rebel leadership has been holding talks today with representatives from some 60 countries in Paris. The broad topic: Libya's humanitarian, reconstruction and political needs.
Before the start of the meeting, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met with two senior rebel leaders.
And we're joined now by Jim Bittermann in Paris and Nic Robertson in Tripoli to talk about this.
Nic, let me begin with you. What does the rebel leadership really hope to get out of today's meeting?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it will hope to establish itself and show that it's able to run this country, that it new effectively is beginning to take control over. It's got control of the biggest city Tripoli, and it needs to show that it's a responsible, capable, democratic leadership that's going to listen to the advice that it's been given by international countries, show that it is still has a certain amount of independence, but it owes its opportunity, it knows -- the National Transitional Council knows -- it owes its opportunities right now to all those world leaders that they are meeting with who have backed it and overthrowing Moammar Gadhafi. So, they are going to want to put on their best show of saying the right things.
But at the same time they are going to be continuing to ask for a lot of support. They are going to need support to help rebuild the damage in the oil -- in the oil infrastructure here, 10 percent to 15 percent the total infrastructure. They are going to need help in keeping liquidity, keeping the finances rolling in the country in the interim before they get their oil production back up and running. And very likely they will want to make sure they get the rest of Gadhafi's frozen assets from around the world, Randi.
KAYE: Nic, what can you tell us about this split that's apparently taking place between two of Gadhafi's sons? What seems to say they will continue fighting, and the other seems to hint that maybe he -- he might surface and turn himself in and let the rebels take over?
ROBERTSON: Well, Saadi Gadhafi says he's been negotiating with rebel military commanders for a ceasefire. When I've been emailing with him, he's told me that he's not making an offer to surrender. That's the way it's interpreted and spun, if you will, by the rebels, who are keen to exploit any perceived weaknesses in the Gadhafi leadership. They say they are not negotiating with Gadhafi or any sons.
But the reality is Saadi has taken a stark approach from his brother Saif who is saying attack, attack, attack, continue to fight. Also Moammar Gadhafi in a speech today echoed Saif Gadhafi by saying that they should continue to fight. Loyalists -- Gadhafi loyalists should continue to fight.
The split is important because it shows the family is cracking. Until now they have been united. Saadi Gadhafi, a few months ago, told me that he was united with the rest of the family behind his brother Saif and behind his father.
These are cracks indicate that they realize that the regime is well and truly over, Randi.
KAYE: Nic, let me just ask you very quickly. It seems as though something is going on behind you. What is that?
ROBERTSON: Randi, these are sort of heavy anti-aircraft guns, celebratory gunfire. You might be able to hear the horns as well. There's been less of that each night now. It slowly becomes calmer and calmer. But it's celebratory gunfire. The heavy rebel machines that we saw in the streets, so many of them, just a week ago, are really a scarcity. Now, they have pulled out of the city. The city is getting back to normal.
But it's an indication that the rebels feel confident about their position and feel as well interesting. They actually have ammunition to waste, Randi.
KAYE: All right. Nic Robertson, thank you. Let's bring in our Jim Bittermann.
Jim, I want to ask you. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is at this meeting. What is her message there?
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think she basically -- her message is not much different from the people that are here, the other leaders that are here, especially the Western leaders, who want to make sure that this National Transitional Council has it foremost in their mind that they should be embarking on a democratic transition here. They came here with a road map suggesting they could have free and fair and democratic elections 18 months down the line. And I think a lot of leaders here wanted it hear them say that personally. And that's what Hillary Clinton wanted to hear as well, and -- and they are going to be watching I think what happens here.
One point that Nic raised, seems to have already been made here, and that is this idea of unfreezing the frozen funds, somewhere between $50 billion and $200 billion that have been frozen during the Gadhafi regime. They want to unfreeze those funds so they can go to the transitional council and apparently at the meeting which broke up just a few minutes ago, they did come to unanimous agreement that that should take place. So, at least on that score, the National Transitional Council, the rebels, will have some operating funds in which -- with which to get the country going again -- Randi.
KAYE: Jim Bittermann, Nic Robertson, many thanks. I know you both will have much more with Brooke coming up just after 3:00 here. So, thank you both. South Carolina Republican king-maker Jim DeMint says that he'll give GOP presidential candidates room to change. I'll tell you what change he's looking for, next.
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KAYE: Let's check in now with Kate Bolduan, who is keeping an eye on all things politics in Washington for us.
Kate, hi there. It sounds like Jim DeMint has a little bit of a message for the GOP candidates?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A little bit of a message, I would say. And, you know, one thing we always talk about as president -- as the race for the White House heats up is the big- name high-profile endorsements of the candidates. And a as you mentioned there's one big name that is so far still in play, South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint. DeMint speaking to a group of party loyalists in South Carolina said that he was withholding coming out in support or making an endorsement of any sort until he can see how the Republican candidates react and respond to the work of the so-called super committee up here on Capitol Hill as they work towards further deficit reductions and we'll have to report back to Congress during Thanksgiving.
DeMint is, you know, somewhat of a conservative king-maker in the state of South Carolina. He has strong Tea Party support. And so, he said, quote, "To this group, I'm taking a fresh look at the candidates. I'm giving them room to change." DeMint thought that the Republican candidates were too quiet earlier this summer as the debt ceiling debate was heating up over here.
So, we'll have to see, of course, where he stands. He did endorse Mitt Romney in 2008 during that election. So, we'll see where DeMint stands as things develop up here on Capitol Hill.
And speaking of the presidential race, the race for the White House -- our viewers should stay tuned and mark their calendars for September 12th. The Republican candidates will be facing off for the next CNN debate. This one is the Tea Party Republican debate moderated by our very own and my very good friend, Wolf Blitzer.
It will be in Tampa, Florida, the host city of the 2012 Republican National Convention -- important place, very important date. You will not want to miss that debate. It is co-hosted -- will be co-sponsored by the Tea Party Express and Tea Party groups, really, from across the country. It will be a very important debate for all voters, especially everyone looking to see where the Republicans stand on the issues. Very interesting and definitely must-see TV. Do not want to miss it -- Randi.
KAYE: All right. Point taken. It's on my calendar.
Kate Bolduan, thank you.
BOLDUAN: Great. KAYE: And that will do it for me today. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.
Hello, Brooke.
