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Visiting The Village Post Office; CNN And Tea Party GOP Debate; New Market Worries Over Europe; Nineteen New Texas Wildfires; UnderCovered: Rare Earths; Police Raid Church For Prostitution

Aired September 12, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: This is the bill, says President Obama. The question now is whether the American jobs act will ever be turned into law and how fast. As you may have seen live right here on CNN, the president today showed off the job creating blueprint he plans to send to Congress just hours from now. It is $447 billion worth of tax breaks and new federal spending which the White House says will be more than offset elsewhere in the budget. It would deepen and extent the existing payroll tax cut for employees and employers, it would pump $60 billion into infrastructure projects and $25 billion into school repairs, $49 billion would go for unemployment benefits now capped in many states at 99 weeks.

By writing up a bill instead of just making a speech, although he's done that, too, Mr. Obama hopes to speed things along on Capitol Hill. That would mean new tax for workers, businesses, and businesses that hire, the long-term job list, he's almost daring Republicans to say no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These aren't games we're playing out here. Folks are out of work, businesses are having trouble staying open, you've got a world economy that is full of uncertainty right now in Europe, in the Middle East. Some events may be beyond our control, but this is something we can control, whether we not -- whether or not we pass this bill, whether or not we get this done, that's something that we can control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: I want to talk much more about this now, this control idea, with CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger. She comes to us today from Tampa, site of this evening's GOP presidential debate, and we'll get to that in a second, but Gloria, tell me first, the president's sending up an actual written piece of legislation. What does that tell you?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, as you were pointing out just before, Randi, it's about control. This is very much a different Barack Obama from the one we saw, for example, in the health care reform debate. Health care reform debate he had Democrats in charge of each House. He said to Nancy Pelosi, he said to Harry Reid, you folks get together and you write this health care reform bill. And they did and it was a long drawn-out, complex, controversial process. In the end, they got something passed which is quite controversial.

This time you have the House controlled by Republicans, you have the president facing a very tough election, you have the Congress being very unpopular, so what did the president do? He's sending up a bill saying take it or leave it, or if there are parts of it you don't like, and this is what a senior White House advisor told me -- the advisor said, if there's parts of it they don't like, then they have to go to the American public and explain why and explain just what else they would do to create jobs. So, he is essentially calling their bluff.

KAYE: Yes, it certainly sounds that way. Let's talk about tonight's debate. This is a CNN/Tea Party express event. Help me set the stage, will you? I mean, let's talk about Rick Perry first of all. He's been doing very well in the polls, but now you actually have a new poll that shows he's even more dominant?

BORGER: Right. Yes, he's doing incredibly well. This has been a very unsettled field, as you know, but take a look at our most recent CNN ORC poll which we just released. Which Republican candidate has the best chance of beating Barack Obama? That's the key question here, Randi. And if you look, Rick Perry, 42 percent; Mitt Romney, 26 percent, that's not good news for mitt Romney. He's been portraying himself as the most electable candidate.

Republicans, above all else, as you know, want to win this election and suddenly they see Rick Perry as more electable out there. They also believe that he is somebody who will fight for his beliefs, another question we asked, and three in 10 believe he will fight for his beliefs, and only one in 10 believe Mitt Romney will fight for his beliefs. So that gives you a real sense of the fight that Mitt Romney has on his hands right now.

KAYE: Let's talk a little bit more about Mitt Romney and Rick Perry. They want to steer the discussion it seems to Social Security while the White House is trying to keep it focused on jobs.

BORGER: Right. But right now there's a fight going on in the Republican party which, by the way, people in the White House are very happy to let the Republicans have. And Mitt Romney believes he's found the Achilles Heel here for Rick Perry which is the question of Social Security. As you know, at the last debate, Rick Perry confirmed what he had already written that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

Right now here in the state of Florida, Mitt Romney has these flyers circulating in the state and in the flyer it says that he's going to hurt social -- that Rick Perry's going to hurt Social Security. Perry has an op-ed today in "USA Today," Randi, and he wrote in it, "for younger workers, we must consider reforms to make Social Security financially viable." So you see, there's a bit of a shift, a nuance if you will, in Rick Perry's position. Tonight, I bet we're going to hear an awful lot about it, but you know what? If he says we have to find a way to make it viable and not call it a Ponzi scheme anymore, then he's going to have to come up with plan. So, we'll watch for that. KAYE: We certainly will. Gloria Borger, thank you very much.

And we should mention, coming up at the bottom of the hour, we are going to talk very much more about this whole issue of Social Security and our new segment on the show called "Fair Game."

Checking other developing stories that we're following -- Europe is the big concern on Wall Street right now. Stocks have been falling most of the day over fear Greece could be moving closer to default.

Also, Reuters reports that the top banks in France could be facing a possible credit downgrade from the ratings agency Moody's. Right now, you can see it there, the Dow is down 89 points.

The battle is far from over for firefighters in Texas. The Forest Service says 19 new wildfires erupted in the central part of the state yesterday. Some 180 wildfires in hard-hit Bastrop County and other counties have destroyed more than 1,500 homes and burned over 170,000 acres since last week. There is a flicker of good news. The Bastrop County fire is 60 percent contained and residents will be allowed to return to four subdivisions today. Six people remain unaccounted for near Austin where the worst of the blaze has been burning.

It is official -- Iran now possesses the Middle East's first civilian nuclear power plant. Is it a positive for the region or a threat to the world? Don't go anywhere, we'll take a look at that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We condemn Iran's persistent refusal to fulfill its international nuclear obligations. Iran's actions underscore the continuing necessity of full enforcement of sanctions by the international community in order to motivate Iran to comply with those obligations, and to deny Iran the ability to advance its prescribed programs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That was United States ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice, expressing concern about Iran's nuclear program on Wednesday. Today, Iran officially launched its new civilian nuclear power plant, the first such plant in the Middle East. Iran's foreign minister says his country's committed to nuclear non-proliferation and international atomic energy standards, but the U.S. and other countries are questioning Iran's intentions and expressing concerns that Iran plans to develop nuclear weapons. The director of the international atomic energy agency recently told his board, quote, "Iran is not providing the necessary cooperation to enable the agency to provide credible assurance about the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities."

Joining me now for much more on this from Massachusetts, international security analyst, Jim Walsh. Jim, thanks so much for coming on the show today to talk about this. Help us understand here. You've been to Iran and spoken to Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Is the plant a threat to anyone in the world or is it Iran's lack of cooperation that's really making people worried here?

DR. JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, MIT SSP: Well Randi, I think you're right to point to the second element, it is a lack of cooperation. Now, I know when we hear the word, nuclear, we all think nuclear weapons right away, but not all nuclear technology is created equal. There's some nuclear technologies that get you on a direct route to the bomb. Things like enrichment of fuel with centrifuges, but then other technologies that really don't bring you close to the bomb at all and that would include this power plant that's coming online. It's a power plant that's going to generate electricity, there are IAEA inspectors who have been to it, there are Russian technicians on ground. It's really a separate issue from Iran's alleged bomb program, and in fact it is so separate, it is really not even subject to the sanctions that you alluded to before when you mentioned ambassador Rice's comments.

KAYE: So, we hear so much about the concern about enriching uranium. Are you saying that at no point could this plant actually be used to do so?

WALSH: You know, they -- if they had no plant whatsoever, if Iran had no nuclear power plants but had centrifuges, they could make a bomb. And if they had a power plant but no centrifuges, they wouldn't be able to make a bomb. It is really a separate thing. Now some folks like to argue that if you have a big civilian nuclear program that can sort of provide cover, it gives you an excuse to have a lot of nuclear scientists so it makes detection of an illicit program more difficult. But in the make, these are different things. In fact, it's been U.S. policy since the late Bush administration -- late Bush, now into Obama, it is fine for Iran to have a civilian nuclear program. They can have the Bashir reactor, run it under IAEA inspection but we don't want them enriching and that's really the nub of the argument today.

KAYE: OK. So, putting bombs aside -- possible nuclear bombs aside, are you at all concerned about this plant say in terms of safety? I mean, might we see something happen there that we saw happen in Japan or elsewhere?

WALSH: Well, I am a little bit concerned about the safety issue. Not for the same reasons as what we saw in Fukushima, although Iran is in an earthquake zone -- it's in -- you know, in a big earthquake zone. But my concern is, you know, this is a very old plant design. It has been in slow motion for decades now. It was designed by Germans, built by Russians, it's being operated by Iranians. You know, it's sort of like a bad joke. And so, you can't help but worry about the safety and reliability of the reactor. Will it have an accident? Will it have problems? What are the environmental implications? So, I think that is something to watch going forward and they've had to pull back a couple of times because they've run into problem. So, I think that would be my main concern is more with respect to safety and environmental issues than proliferation.

KAYE: And just quickly, do you think the U.S. should be at all concerned about Russia's involvement with this plant? WALSH: No. I think actually the U.S. is probably pretty happy that there are lots of Russians on the ground watching what's happening. And so I think that's a good thing. It's better than if the plant were run only by Iranians who have little experience in this regard. So, I think that's a win for everyone concerned.

KAYE: All right. Jim Walsh, international security analyst, always appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much.

Well, they are in our computers, they are in our airplanes, our lasers, our X-ray machines and they could soon be just as rare as their name suggests. I'll show you why in our new segment "Undercover" when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for "UnderCovered." A new segment devoted to the news we should be hearing a lot more about. Today we dig deep to bring you the scoop on rare earths. And before I show you what they are, well, let me show what you they do. They run your computer and your cell phone. Mine, too. Actually, everybody's. They power your electric car. They guide missiles. And without rare earths, wind turbines would be really big lawn ornaments.

Remember this from high school chemistry? The periodic table, or as I like to think of it, the ingredients of everything. Rare elements are -- actually rare earths are 17 elements. If you take a look, we have them all here. They're absolutely vital to just about any high-tech device that we couldn't live without. That's the science.

All right, now here is the news. More than 95 percent of these elements come from China. More than 95 percent. China has only 36 percent of the world's known reserves, but no other country can produce them on a scale that even comes close. And Beijing's been tightening rare earth exports for years. Just last week, it announced a total shutdown at three major mines. The U.S., Japan, the World Trade Organization all are pushing to keep the supply lines open. And rare earth mines in the west, which are rarer than rare, are scrambling to produce even more and to find more reserves.

Here's one place that looks promising. Afghanistan, believe it or not. As far back as 2007, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated more than a million metric tons of rare earth were buried under Helmand province. The Afghans say that they're worth $3 trillion. We will, of course, keep you posted on all of that.

Coming up, a church in Arizona is accused of helping members connect with God through sex. We are not making this up. We'll have it for you in three minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: All right, let's be frank. Religion can be controversial. But whatever your beliefs, a place of so-called worship in Phoenix, Arizona, takes religious controversy to a whole new level in today's "Crime & Consequence." Arizona prosecutors say this church, the Phoenix Goddess Temple, isn't really a house of worship, but an alleged house of prostitution. Twenty temple members were arrested and charged, but Phoenix Police are still searching for 17 more. Police say that they seized evidence that church employees were performing sex acts for money. Members say those acts were religious practices, protected by the First Amendment right to religious freedom. And, they say, the payments were donations.

Joining us to talk much more about this, Andy Hill, who is a retired sergeant from the Phoenix Police Department, and CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Thank you both for coming on.

Jeffrey, let me start with you here. I want to read you something from the Maricopa County Attorney, Bill Montgomery. He says, quote, "freedom of religion does not allow individuals to trade sex for money." So how credible is the argument that these members have that freedom of religion rights under the First Amendment?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's almost certainly a sure loser given what I understand to be the facts of the case. But, frankly, the courts have struggled with this issue at times, usually involving cases about certain kinds of drug use, payoty (ph), by certain Native American tribes.

There's a well-known case involving something called Hoxa Tea (ph), which is a narcotic kind of tea that was used in New Mexico. And there the Supreme Court said, well, we will allow the religious group to use it because they have a compelling interest and a legitimate interest in the religious observance. This brothel -- and that's certainly what it appears to be -- certainly I think is not going to be able to make out a claim like that.

KAYE: Well, let's take a look at the temple's website, if you will. Take a look at this with me. They say that their practices are body centric and help people connect with the divine through the healing power of touch. Members told our affiliate KPHO that they are spiritual warriors and healing goddesses.

So, I guess, Andy, I'd like to ask you, how broadly do you think the law protects freedom of religion under the First Amendment?

ANDY HILL, PHOENIX POLICE DEPT. (RET.): Well, I don't think this has anything to do with religion. You know, for thousands of years, these types of places have been able to and try to disguise themselves as something other than they are. When you're offering to have -- to give sex for money, you're a brothel. And, of course, you have to depend on the law enforcement agency that's doing the investigation to make sure that they follow the law, that they do the investigation, develop the probable cause. And in this case, the county attorney and Maricopa County decided that they had probable cause.

But really it's a bigger issue than that when you're talking about prostitution. I mean everybody knows and understands now, especially through, you know, two -- the past two presidential administrations how significant prostitution is as it relates to the health issue of AIDS and AIDS prevention. When you're talking about this kind of sex, when people are paying for it, there are health issues, there are criminal issues and there are neighborhood issues.

KAYE: So, Jeffrey, to you again. The Phoenix Police say that this temple has generated tens of thousands of dollars. Now, the temple, they say that these were donations. These weren't payments. What do you make of that?

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, obviously, a jury will ultimately decide that. But certainly on the surface it seems like this is just using religion as a cover for breaking the law. You can't use religion to break the law. You can't invent a religion that says, thou shall rob banks. Thou shall not pay minimum wage. I mean religions have to follow the law like everybody else. And there is a narrow category of cases -- mostly involving these -- in drugs -- where the courts have created an exception. But certainly none of the factors where they have created an exception seem to be applicable here.

KAYE: Yes. And, Andy, in terms of evidence, what would they be looking for? What would be key?

HILL: Well, the way to do this type of investigation traditionally is to go ahead and try and either to infiltrate the organization or to develop information from people that are involved that leads you to meet the criteria of the law. And every state has a law and a definition for prostitution or this type of crime. In Arizona, they would need to show that there were sex acts that were made in exchange for either a monetary fee or something else of considerable value. And once they develop that case to the point where they have probable cause and the county attorney agrees, then either they go to a grand jury or seek some kind of an indictment and they move forward from there. And it's, as Jeffrey said, you let the jury decide.

KAYE: All right, Andy Hill, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you both. Appreciate it.

Coming up in just one minute, what killed Andy Whitfield, the 39-year- old star of "Spartacus"?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time right now, just about half past the hour, time to get you caught up on what you might have missed today.

President Obama stepped into the White House Rose Garden to make a pitch for his $447 billion job creation plan earlier today. He called the plan a commonsense blueprint threatened by politics and announced that he is sending the bill to Capitol Hill tonight. House Speaker John Boehner promises the House will consider that plan.

And if you take a look at the Dow right now, it is down 117 points as investors continue to struggle with a new wave of anxiety over the possibility that Greece will default on its debt. Adding to the jitters France's top banks could be facing a credit downgrade from ratings agency Moody's, according to Reuters. Traders fear a downgrade announcement could be issued at any moment as a window for a review comes to a close.

Now an update on those Texas wildfires. Evacuees in and around Bastrop, Texas, will start going home today if they have a home to go home to, of course. The wildfire has burned more than 1,500 homes. Near Austin, two people were found dead in a burned-out neighbor last week. Six are unaccounted for, but officials hope that they're on vacation or possibly staying with friends.

The police chief at the center of a brutality controversy has extended his medical leave for another 30 days. Fullerton, California, Police Chief Michael Sellers move comes amid calls for criminal charges to be filed against six officers involved in the brutal beating and death of Kelly Thomas. As we told you in our extensive coverage on this story, Thomas was a 37-year-old homeless schizophrenic. He died five days after his beating in July. Two city council members have called on Sellers to resign over what they say was a failure to provide full details to the public. They also say information has been withheld from them, including surveillance video of Thomas' struggle with the officers.

CNN has confirmed that actor Andy Whitfield has died. You know him from TV's "Spartacus: Blood and Sand," seen here, where he played the famed gladiator. According to "The New York Times," the 39-year-old passed away on Sunday in Sydney, Australia from Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma

He leaves behind a wife, two children, and his sister.

Taking aim at Social Security. Rick Perry has come under fire for recent comments calling it a Ponzi scheme. We will pull back the curtain to discuss the issue. It is all fair game and it's coming your way next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

Time now to take a closer look at the political hot topic of the day and go beyond the partisan talking points to the heart of the debate, where all sides are fair game. Today, I am talking about Social Security as a political football.

Texas Governor Rick Perry may have spiked the ball when he called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. Listen to what he said at the last Republican debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a monstrous lie, it is a Ponzi scheme to tell our kids that are 25 or 30 years old today, you're paying into a program that's going to be there. Anybody that's for the status quo with Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids, and it's not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That comment drew immediate criticism from some of the other candidates and this from Vice President Joe Biden, who spoke to our John King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, it's not a Ponzi scheme. He should go back and find out who Ponzi was. He was an individual. It was a different deal. But, no, it is not a Ponzi scheme. It is secure through 2036 and to fix it is not hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And you can see the rest of that exclusive interview with the vice president tonight on "J.K. USA" at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

So, was it a good move, though, by Perry to set himself apart?

Here's CNN contributor and GOP media consultant Alex Castellanos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX CASTELLANOS, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: It doesn't matter whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. If you're a senior you're really concerned about your Social Security. And you usually don't start a presidential campaign by setting grandma's hair on fire.

But that's what Rick Perry did when he not only called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. He implied he might undo it if he could go back 70 years. He's got to fix that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The voter turnout numbers for the last presidential election show you how big a deal Social Security may be as a campaign issue.

Take a look. Look who tops the list. Yes, 70 percent are voters over the age of 65, the ones who are getting Social Security. At 69 percent are those aged 45 to 64, the ones who will be getting it soon.

Joining me now to talk about Perry's comments on Social Security and the use of it as a campaign issue is Memphis Tea Party Chairman Mark Skoda and Brad Woodhouse, communications director for the Democratic National Committee.

Rick Perry said anyone who wants the keep the status quo is lying to our kids. But I don't think anyone is actually saying that the system is just fine as it is.

Mark, let me start with you. Did he just overshoot with this message?

MARK SKODA, MEMPHIS TEA PARTY CHAIRMAN: Yes, look, it's his first time out. I think he did overshoot.

I will tell you, at the end of the day, we know that Social Security in its current incarnation is in trouble. We know that for instance disability pensions under Social Security are currently almost bankrupt. We paid $29 billion more this year -- in 2010 -- than we took in. So his point while perhaps bombastic is still no less important in the discussion.

And I think when we look at options, to leave the status quo, which nobody -- I agree with you -- no one is in fact suggesting, but ultimately there are better ways to fund Social Security. And I think Chile, for instance, is one of those countries we should look at.

KAYE: Brad, what do you think of Perry's comments and what do you think that the message should be?

BRAD WOODHOUSE, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, look, first of all, I think Perry's comments were absolutely wrong.

He just -- he doesn't understand Social Security's financing. He doesn't understand that as Vice President Biden said, it is solvent for 25 years. For some 50 years after that, it would pay three- quarters of current benefits without any changes. No one's saying, Randi, that we shouldn't make changes to it.

But it really is minor changes that need to be made. Medicare, as you know, is in worse shape than Social Security. But the focus on Perry I think has distracted from the fact that every Republican in this field, either because of their support for what was known as Cut, Cap and Balance during the debt default debate or their just previous support for privatization, they're all for policies that would undermine if not dismantle Social Security. And, Randi, that includes Mitt Romney, who is trying to make a big deal out of Rick Perry's comments.

KAYE: I want to call your attention to Rick Perry's op-ed in "USA Today." It is titled "I'm Going to be Honest with the American People." In that op-ed today, he does not mention the word Ponzi once.

So, Mark, does it sound to you like maybe he's backing of that a little bit?

SKODA: Well, probably so.

Look, he in the debate -- I suggest that his comments there were perhaps over the top, but let's look at it this way. At the end of the day, what he is trying to highlight is there is a problem here. And, by the way, the current Social Security system is nothing more than $2.5 trillion of IOUs from the federal government which itself is in the hole $1.3 trillion a year.

So somewhere, the money's got to come from something. And there is insufficient scale of revenues in the U.S. Treasury today to even pay for that $2.5 trillion. So to the extent that he suggests that there is a problem here, yes.

It's government-authorized essentially taking of those monies and using them in the general fund and replacing them with IOUs. Now, Ponzi schemes are illegal, but what the government is doing and promising, frankly, is immoral.

KAYE: So, Brad, what is the answer here? How do you fix this?

WOODHOUSE: Well, let me just say this, Randi. When it comes to Republicans or Tea Partiers or Rick Perry or Mitt Romney, their first solution for dealing with Social Security involves either gambling it in the stock market -- and we have seen how the stock market has performed -- or cutting benefits.

People have earned these benefits. They have paid into them. We're not doing them a favor by letting them receive their benefits. So we need to look at ways to tweak it. There are ways to do it, any number of ways to do it, including on the revenue side.

But the first solution to deal with Social Security benefits shouldn't be to cut Social Security benefits.

KAYE: All right, we will leave it there. Mark Skoda, Brad Woodhouse, appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

And we want to remind you that at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight right here on CNN is the Tea Party/Republican debate sponsored by CNN of course and the Tea Party Express. Be sure to tune in for that one.

He is the leader of what many regard as one of the world's most corrupt governments. Hamid Karzai is also Washington's main ally in the war against the Taliban, the Afghan president speaking out to CNN coming up in a live report right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Hamid Karzai has led Afghanistan for 10 years. That's as long as the U.S. war against the Taliban.

His relationship with both the U.S. government and military has been far from ideal. Critics accuse his government of being one of the most corrupt in the world. They also accuse him of weak leadership, turning a blind eye to drug smugglers and cutting deals with warlords.

But Washington has stuck with him because there is no one else to turn to.

Today, Karzai sat down with CNN's Suzanne Malveaux for an extensive interview.

And Suzanne joins us now from Kabul.

Hi there, Suzanne. What are the headlines from your meeting with Karzai?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, it was about 30 minutes or so. It was very hospitable. We met at the presidential palace, covered a lot of issues, a lot of different subjects, including corruption, including some of the criticism that you talked about.

The main thing that we focused on here is obviously Americans are very war-weary. It's been 10 years that we have been in Afghanistan. A lot of folks are looking for the exit strategy, if you will -- 2014, at the end of that year, that is the date, that is the time that U.S. and NATO combat troops are looking to come home. They can't do that until the Afghan troops take over their own security, until they are able to protect their own country.

So that was the main point here. I put it to him quite poignantly whether or not the Afghan people are going to be able to do that, if they have the capability, if they have the will for that timetable to work, to basically take over their security, as well as the future of their country. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN: From that point onwards, a majority of the international forces will have the liberty, the freedom to go back home and the Afghan forces and the Afghan government and people will be looking after their own country. So yes, by 2014, in short, the forces can and will leave Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Randi, one thing that he also mentioned, too, is that there are two different discussions that are taking place at the same time, the United States and the Afghan government, over some sort of long-term agreement, whether or not there would be some permanent form a U.S. presence here, an international troop presence.

That would be translators, advisers, really kind of a diplomatic role that the United States would be a part of. Those discussions are happening. We are talking about beyond 2014 a significant presence in this country.

The other thing that's happening are talks that are going on with the Taliban. Those who are part of the Taliban who are not a part of the insurgency, not a part of the violence, but want to see peace in this country, the Afghan government, the U.S. government, as well as an international coalition is sitting down with the Taliban to figure out some sort of way of resolving and bringing peace to this war-torn country.

Hamid Karzai saying that he believes it is going to take perhaps a year or two before that kind of arrangement, that agreement happens. But, Randi, it is starting to happen. It is the beginning of that process to try to bring peace to this country -- Randi.

KAYE: All right, Suzanne Malveaux in Kabul, Afghanistan for us, Suzanne, thank you.

And now for some other top stories making headlines.

One of Moammar Gadhafi's sons has left Libya. Niger officials say Saadi Gadhafi arrived there in a convoy and has reportedly been accepted on humanitarian grounds. This is Saadi seen here with CNN's Nic Robertson; this was during an April interview. While we know where Saadi is, it is still unclear where Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is located. One of only two survivors of that deadly Russian plane crash has died. Russian hockey player Alexander Galimov died of his injuries just today -- 37 players and staff members were killed when their plane crashed last week on their way to a game in Belarus. Prime minister Vladimir Putin joined mourners at a memorial service for members of the Russian hockey team.

And a British married couple is attacked while vacationing in Kenya. A gunman reportedly burst into the couple's cottage at a beach resort near the Somalian border, killing the husband when he resisted a robbery attempt and then kidnapping the wife. A source close to the situation says she was taken away by speedboat toward Somalia. The British government says it is doing everything it can to win her release.

Taking the lead Texas-style. Rick Perry seems like the big dog heading into the CNN/Tea Party debate tonight. But do the new numbers back up his swagger? Your CNN political update is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: All right, let's check in on the debate that's happening tonight.

We have Shannon Travis and Paul Steinhauser, both in Tampa, Florida, where the GOP/Tea Party debate will be taking place.

Shannon, let me start with you. How does this debate, do you think, speak to the influence of the Tea Party?

SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER: This is major. First of all, they're pairing off with a mainstream news organization whereas when the Tea Party first began in 2009, a lot of people were -- their critics were saying that they were on the extreme edges of the Republican Party. So that's first.

Secondly, the Tea Party, they had mixed success in the 2010 midterm elections. They won some races, they lost others. But they effectively changed the conversation, Randi. Right now, everybody's talking about how to reduce spending, how to get less taxes. So that's right now the true impact of the Tea Party movement, the fact that in American politics right now a lot of people are talking about the issues that Tea Partiers care about -- Randi.

KAYE: And speaking of the race, let's talk about these new numbers, Paul. What are the latest polls showing in terms of Rick Perry and Mitt Romney?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, our poll was taken over the weekend, so it was the first national poll conducted after last Wednesday's debate. And that was the first debate where Rick Perry took part. Remember he only jumped into the race for the White House about a month ago. And, well, where is he? Still at the top in our most recent poll, in our poll. He's at 30 percent, 12 points ahead of Mitt Romney, who is in second place. Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, he was front-runner until Perry jumped in. But here's another number I want to talk about, Randi. This is really interesting. You have got to dig deep in the poll. And there's a question we asked. We asked Republicans who is the candidate who can best beat Barack Obama, the electability factor?

And look who is on top right there? Rick Perry, far ahead of Mitt Romney and everybody else in the field. And why is this important? Because Romney's -- one of his strategies is basically to tell Republican voters, listen, you may not agree with me on all the issues, but I'm the person who can beat Barack Obama next year in the presidential election. Well, at least right now, Republican voters don't feel that way. They think maybe Rick Perry is the man to do that.

KAYE: One more question to you, Shannon, on Mitt Romney. He got a pretty interesting endorsement from Tim Pawlenty. How significant do you think that is?

TRAVIS: Well, politics makes for strange bedfellows, right, Randi?

You're right. Mitt Romney was endorsed today by Tim Pawlenty, the former Minnesota governor, who was running for president up until last month. Now, this might help Romney with some -- it might help Romney with some Pawlenty supporters. He had a lot of support there in Iowa.

But the other thing is, the reason why this is so interesting to me and Paul and other political is observers is you remember Pawlenty was slamming Romney. He called his plan Obamneycare, comparing it to what they call Obamacare. So it's interesting in that those two former political enemies are now pairing up. Pawlenty is actually going to be the national co-chair for Romney's campaign.

KAYE: Yes.

STEINHAUSER: And he will be here as well at the debate tonight.

But one other thing about endorsements. To most voters, Randi, they are just not that important. It's something to talk about, yes, but I don't think it will sway that many votes.

KAYE: All right. Well, we will give you the last word on that one, Paul.

Thank you, both. And, of course, yes, thank you for mentioning the debate, 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Now, in just a couple of hours, the U.S. Open men's final will pit two of tennis' powerhouses against each other. It's the first rematch for the U.S. open men's championship in more than 20 years between Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal. But it's the women's matchup between home favorite Serena Williams and her Australian challenger that has many of us still talking about.

Candy Reid joins us live from the U.S. Open in New York there.

Candy, Serena's forehand, she was looking to come up, but instead what happened cost her the U.S. Open title. It was a heartbreaker.

CANDY REID, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a heartbreaker for her especially. Thanks very much, Randi.

Yes, the Grand Slam Committee are expected to rule in about 10 minutes, 2:00 Eastern, on whether Serena Williams' outburst during Sunday's final during against Sam Stosur was a major event. Serena Williams is on probation, a two-year probation, given what happened in 2009 right here in at the U.S. Open in the semifinals here against Kim Clijsters.

You might remember she verbally abused a lineswoman and threatened to put a ball down her throat. She was given a two-year probation as I said and a major fine for that. That probation didn't end until the end of this tournament. So during Sunday's final she was rather upset about the umpire giving her opponent a point for intentional hindrance.

Serena hit a wonderful forehand but shouted come on right after it before Sam Stosur could return the ball, if she could at all. Two games later, Serena sits down. She's already been given a code violation and she continued to berate the umpire saying that the umpire shouldn't look at her if they cross paths in a hall and that she was unattractive inside.

So this could cause Serena to get another fine and perhaps a suspension from tennis. We will find out in about 10 minutes, Randi.

KAYE: Yes. And in just Couple of hours, of course, we will see Rafael Nadal, the defending champion for the U.S. Open, take on Novak Djokovic. A lot of doubt or at least some doubt over Nadal. I would like to like have to seen a Nadal/Federer match, of course, but we will take this one. But what's the doubt about?

REID: Well, the doubt I suppose is that Rafael Nadal hasn't beat Novak Djokovic in five finals this year, including at the Wimbledon championship final, where he was blown off the court in four sets.

So he's got that issue, because Novak Djokovic has been the outstanding player of the year. He has already won the Australian Open, He has already won Wimbledon, he has won lost 63 matches this season and lost just two. And as I said, he's beaten Nadal all five times they have played. Nadal was asked how he's going to combat Djokovic this year and he joked, he's going to serve and volley.

Randi, that's not going to happen, but whether he can beat Djokovic is the question -- Randi.

KAYE: Candy, I would like to switch places with you, but I will be watching it on my television here at home in just a couple of hours. Thank you, Candy, very much.

KAYE: Well, the rumors are true that Bank of America is prepared to cut tens of thousands of jobs. Could other banks follow suit? We will have the answer for you in two minutes.

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