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Tax For New Jobs; Iran May Free American Hikers; Iran President Speaks Out On Obama; Spotlight On Obama In Special Elections; Bravery At Site Of Fiery Accident; Fan Uses Taser At Football Game; Rick Perry and Education; Catholic Church Sex Abuse Scandal; Analysis of Rick Perry in Tea Party Debate; The HPV Vaccine Debate; New Discovery Could Kill Foodborne Bacteria

Aired September 13, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Drew. Hello, everyone.

President Obama is just about to land in Columbus, Ohio, to campaign for the jobs bill that Republican leaders of Congress are openly rejecting. Barely 24 hours ago the president showed off his American jobs act and demanded Congress pass it with, and I quote, "No games, no politics, no delays."

But then came the details of how the $447 billion package would be paid for. Two words, "tax hikes," and you could hear the opposition digging in. The biggest hike by far would be a cap on itemized deductions for high earners. The White House estimates that would raise $400 billion over 10 years.

The bill would also close loopholes enjoyed by oil and gas companies, raising an estimated $40 billion. It would raise taxes on investment fund managers and scale back depreciation rules for corporate jets and suddenly Republicans who had been promising to hear the president out had heard enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: When you look at what we saw in the president's pay-fors (ph) yesterday, we see a permanent tax increases put into effect in order to pay for temporary spending. I just don't think that's really going to help our economy the way -- the way it could.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: The half a trillion dollar tax hike the White House proposed yesterday will not only face a tough road in Congress among Republicans but from Democrats, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The next word, certainly not the last, belongs to Mr. Obama who will speak at a Columbus high school a little more than an hour from now. School renovation is a big part of his back to work plan. You'll hear him live right here on CNN. In the meantime, I want to talk about jobs and taxes and yes, politics and delays with CNN Correspondent Kate Bolduan and from the New York Stock Exchange, Alison Kosik. Hello to both of you.

Kate, let me start with you. What is in store for the American Jobs Act on Capitol Hill?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, house speaker John Boehner, he said this morning that they are waiting to get this score, the -- kind of the price tag estimate from the Congressional Budget Office. If you were watching us during the debt ceiling debate, you'll remember me mentioning that many times. This is the Congressional Budget Office there, kind of the gold standard, they always classify that as estimate and everyone always waits very much for that. So, we're waiting for that.

It's been referred to committee -- the relevant committees. I counted 11 committees, but really what we're seeing and hearing right now is already getting from House Republicans especially that they're pushing for the president and Democrats to try to find some common ground and move on the areas that they could possibly find agreement, move on that rather than pushing for the entire package to move forward.

Because I'll tell you, we see no enthusiasm up here as you just showed in the sound bites from Republicans in the House and Senate to move forward on the entire package that the president is pushing.

What Republicans are kind of leaving the door open to, where they think are areas of possible common ground, are talking about three pending trade deals that they think will create jobs and that they can support tax reliefs for small businesses, reforming the way aid is given to the jobless, to the unemployed, and also rolling back burdensome federal regulations.

They're been talking -- House Republicans have made that part of their fall agenda. They say that hinders and hampers job growth, of course amongst small businesses that they've been focusing a lot on. So, those are the areas that they want to focus on rather than talking about the whole package, because there doesn't seem much appetite at all to move forward on that right now -- Randi.

KAYE: Yes. And Kate, very quickly, remind us, this is not the first time that we've heard about these proposed tax hikes.

BOLDUAN: Yes. The way the president wants to pay for this seems to be almost a bigger problem than what he's proposing in the package. I will tell you, a lot of these tax provisions that we're hearing, we have heard before -- they have been imposed before and Republicans are really laying out that this is what these tax provisions would really do by and large is taxing -- it would be a tax hike on the people that they are looking to create jobs.

In the end, Democrats, of course, disagree and say that they want the wealthier Americans and corporations to pay more in order to help pay for this jobs plan that will help everyone in the end. Regardless Randi, a lot of deja vu, I will tell you, in talking about getting rid of oil and gas subsidies and talking about corporate jets again. This is some of the debate we heard during the debt ceiling, it didn't go anywhere, but it's coming back up, again.

KAYE: All right. Kate Bolduan, thanks to you.

Alison, let me turn to you now. When you look at this plan that's on the table, no doubt it assumes that there are going to be income tax rate hikes.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, exactly. I mean -- and a lot of what Kate was saying is what's being echoed here on Wall Street as well. There's just a lot of skepticism as to whether any of this could make it through Congress. I mean, one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is how to pay for this plan as far as higher tax rates go.

The White House estimate is assuming that the expiration of the Bush era tax cuts for the two top income brackets would also factor into paying for this jobs plan. It's where tax rates would go back up to where they were for individuals who make over $174,000. So, it'll go from 33 percent to 36 percent, and then from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. You know, Wall Street's not thrilled about this either because they're worried that this will stifle growth.

You know, a lot of traders I'm talking to are wondering how much this jobs plan really sets the table for economic growth. And then, you know, back to the limit on itemized deductions, you know, a lot of traders tell me small businesses are going to be hurt by this. People who own these businesses take home pay that's near that $250,000 mark.

So, they're going to be asked to pay more in taxes. But critics say, you know what? It's these private business owners -- these private businesses that are expected to do -- to do the bulk of the hiring to get the economy moving, but the question is how are they going to do that if they're going to be taxed more -- Randi.

KAYE: All right. Alison Kosik, thank you so much for that, and Kate Bolduan as well.

Checking some other developing stories that we're following for you, two Americans held in an Iranian prison for more than two years may be released this week. Josh Fattal and Shane Bauer were convicted of spying and illegal entry into Iran and sentenced to eight years in prison. Well, their lawyer says they'll be freed after each pays a $500,000 bail and their families are trying to raise that money. Fattal and Bauer say they were arrested after mistakenly crossing into Iran while hiking.

In an interview on NBC Today, Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, says he thinks they will be freed in just a couple of days. Also in that interview, Ahmadinejad was asked if he had a message for President Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, PRESIDENT OF IRAN: Well, President Obama was in the presidential elections and had some slogans, many people were happy about it. In a short period of time, many people are disappointed. I ask you and the people of the United States to what extent they hope about real reforms by him? What has changed in the United States? What policies? Did they change policies in Afghanistan, in Iraq? Or the hostility against Iran? What has changed really?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Ahmadinejad is due to visit New York later this month for the general assembly of the United Nations.

Two special elections for the House of Representatives. In New York City, voters are picking a replacement for Democratic representative, Anthony Weiner, you'll recall he resigned in June after admitting he sent lewd photos of himself to women on the Internet. The poll shows Republican Bob Turner having an edge over Democrat David Wetteran. Democratics have held the peace since 1923 and the Republican victory would be seen as rebuke of President Obama.

In Nevada, the focus is on the second Congressional district, voters are choosing someone to replace Republican Dean Heller who was appointed to the Senate in May after John Ensign resigned. Former GOP state Senator Mark Almada is going up against Democratic state treasurer Kate Marshall. The polls make Almada the heavy favorite.

All right, we are about to show you some incredible video. Bystanders are being praised for showing remarkable bravery in saving a man's life. Look at this video, it shows it all. A car and motorcycle collided in Logan, Utah, burst into flames, and good Samaritans jumped into action.

A group of construction workers, students and others joined together to lift up, you see it there, one side of the burning car, then pulled the driver of the motorcycle straight out from under it. Look at that. The 21-year-old motorcyclist is in stable condition after surgery. The driver of the car not seriously hurt. Incredible stuff.

All right. Talk about fans getting carried away at a game. A man is accused of using a taser on other fans during a fight at Sunday's Dallas Cowboys, New York Jets football game. Police say three people suffered minor injuries. A South Carolina man charged with aggravated assault and two weapons counts. The big question, how did the man get into the stadium with the taser? Special security measures were in place because it was the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Coming up, education on the chopping block. Massive cuts were a major part of Rick Perry's Texas budget, but he says it doesn't mean they're skimping on schooling. We will go in depth next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAYE: This week, CNN is taking an in depth look at Texas governor, Rick Perry, the front runner in the Republic race to the White House. Education is a hot-button topic across the country with cuts being made in programs from state to state. Well, Perry has called education reform a top priority, but has he really delivered during his 11 years in office?

As our Ed Lavandera reports, it depends on who you ask.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Texas educators had the country time blues "Hee Haw" style. These Dallas area school officials are lampooning Perry for approving $4 billion in education cuts, almost 10 percent of the state's education budget.

Critics like Allen Weeks, head of a grass roots group called Save Texas Schools, say the governor is gutting education.

ALLEN WEEKS, CHAIRMAN, SAVE TEXAS SCHOOLS: He's talking about doing things on the cheap and cutting and cutting and cutting, and again, we're going to face another round of perhaps $5 to $10 billion in cuts two years from now. So you know, I think -- yes, we do feel abandoned and I think we feel shocked.

LAVANDERA: Rick Perry's aides say the fear over education budget cuts are overblown.

(on camera): Are you saying, essentially, that it's just not going to be as bad as people think it is?

ROBERT SCOTT, TEXAS EDUCATION AGENCY: I do think it's not going to be as bad as people think it is.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Robert Scott is the man Perry appointed to lead the Texas education agency. He argues education is a top priority and says the governor created programs to improve math, science and engineering teaching, and that during Perry's 11 years as governor, Texas students score right around the national average on national assessment tests in math, science, reading and writing. Perry's administration says it's spending less and getting better results than many states.

SCOTT: I think there's a strong (INAUDIBLE) across the state that we need to live within our means, and keeping some money in the bank for the future seemed like a pretty wise idea for many folks.

LAVANDERA: What's most troubling for education experts is that national assessment scores for fourth and eighth graders have been stagnant the last five years. At the same time, Texas ranks 44th in the country on the amount of education money it spends on each child. Texas also has one of worst high school dropout rates in the country.

WEEKS: So, we're going to have lots and lots of children in this state left behind. And if that's what happens -- if that's the model for America, I don't think we'll be able to compete globally. This is not something I think America wants.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will get our country working --

LAVANDERA: Rick Perry's critics say he's out of tune on education and the debate will only intensify on the campaign trail.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And Ed Lavandera joins me now live from Dallas. Hi there, Ed. So, Rick Perry's budget cut billions from the education budget yet he says it's local districts that are responsible for teacher cuts. So, how does that work?

LAVANDERA: Well, he made these comments a few months after the legislative session was ending here in Texas. And it was a comment that has angered a lot of people. In districts across this state, we've seen at the beginning of this school year, thousands and thousands of teachers being laid off.

And, essentially, what his critics are saying, instead of Rick Perry owning up and saying, look, I'm sorry, but these cuts and this is what has happened, we needed to do this, he essentially kind of threw the blame down on the local school districts saying, look, we gave them the pot of money. They chose to do -- they could have done any series of things. They could have cut from other places. If they choose to cut teachers, that's their decision.

KAYE: Yes.

LAVANDERA: That's a comment that angered many people in local school districts across the state.

KAYE: And what about the bigger institutions like the state universities? How are they responding to his reform?

LAVANDERA: Well, this is a fascinating struggle going on in Texas. It hasn't gotten a whole lot of publicity and it's incredibly complicated. But a few years ago, Rick Perry had -- and some supporters of his had come up with these ideas to kind of revolutionize and change the way higher education, universities and professors and research institutions kind of operated. These suggestions that were put out has ruffled a lot of feathers in the major universities -- the University of Texas, Texas A&M. And there's a huge coalition of some very powerful big minds here in the state of Texas that are fighting back.

And this is a huge struggle that's playing out mostly behind the scenes at this point. There's been a lot that's been going on in public. But these are big behind the scenes battles that are being carried out right now in Texas.

KAYE: Ed Lavandera for us there in Texas. Ed, thank you so much.

The U.S. government deliberately infecting people with STDs for research. A new chilling report about the experiments in Guatemala more than 60 years ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We're about to share details of a new report. Details that show the U.S. government, our government, deliberately infected more than 1,000 people with sexually transmitted diseases, deliberately, just so they could study the effectiveness of penicillin. It happened in Guatemala during the 1940s. We got bits of the findings last month. But just today, the commission put together by President Obama officially released the results. The details paints an even more sinister, chilling picture of the Guatemalan STD trials.

Here's what we've learned. The number of victims in the experiment greater than previously thought. Researchers did diagnostic tests, including blood tests and painful spinal taps on as many as 5,000 Guatemalans, that included orphans and school children.

Now, here's the headline. Researchers deliberately infected 1,300 people with dangerous STDs, including syphilis and gonorrhea. The panel found researchers broke ethical rules and went to such lengths the commission calls what researchers did, quote, "unconscionable."

The victims were among the most vulnerable. They included prisoners, psychiatric patients, soldiers and prostitutes. These are pictures of just a few of the victims included in the commission's report from the National Archives and Records Admission. Many were exposed to syphilis multiple times, treated with penicillin. Of those involved in the experiment between 1946 and 1948, at least 83 died. Whether or not they died from the STDs or treatment now remains unclear.

But one of the key things this report found was that the same researchers involved in the Guatemala trials did similar experiments with prison inmates in Indiana in 1943, just three years before that. But here's the thing. They went to extreme length to get consent from those prisoners. So the question is, why didn't they get consent from their subjects in Guatemala. The commission found the double standard shocking.

The commission chair says, "a civilization can be judged by the way that it treats its most vulnerable individuals. It is our moral responsibility to care for those who cannot protect themselves and clearly in this dark chapter of our medical history, we grievously failed to keep that covenants."

The commission is now focusing on reviewing current ethics standards on how effectively we now protect human research subjects. That report will be given to the president we're told in December.

Coming up, some of these victims are accusing the pope of crimes against humanity. The pope, yes. The group says the catholic leader is turning a blind eye. Do they have a case? Our experts weigh in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Some victims of priest abuse want the pope prosecuted for crimes against humanity. The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, also called SNAP, claims the pope and other church leaders, quote, "tolerate and enable the systemic and widespread concealing of rape and child sex crimes throughout the world." To support its claim, SNAP has filed more than 20,000 documents with the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands. A Vatican spokesmen tells CNN he's aware of the filing but he has no comment.

Last June the pope had this to day about the ongoing abuses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE BENEDICT (through translator): We too insistently beg forgiveness from God and for the persons involved, while promising to do everything possible to ensure that such abuse would never occur again. And that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Now, the pope says that he's doing everything he can to protect children and prevent these abuses, but SNAP still claims that he and other officials are turning a blind eye to the issues at hand. So, is this just a big PR stunt or does the group really have a legitimate case? Here to weigh in, legal contributor from "In Session" on TruTV, Sunny Hostin.

Sunny, nice to see you.

This is a pretty serious case to talk about with you today. Does SNAP have a real case here?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I think it certainly has a real case. But the question is whether or not it really will even get there. Whether or not the International Criminal Court will even open up an investigation.

I mean this is a war crimes tribunal and that is not to say that perhaps these crimes don't qualify as war crimes because we know that sex crimes and sexual violence do qualify. But the type of crimes that historically are brought before this court are things like the violence in Libya, Randi, that we've seen recently, child soldiers in Darfur, genocide. Things like that. And so this certainly is a bit different.

It's also a court of last jurisdiction, last resort. And so I think in that sense, because a lot of these crimes are being prosecuted in the United States priest by priest, church by church, that sort of lends against having it tried in front of this type of court, an International Criminal Court located in the Netherlands.

So I don't think it's a frivolous lawsuit by any stretch of the imagination or a frivolous complaint, but certainly will it withstand scrutiny by the ICC, I think is going to be pretty difficult. KAYE: When you hear the pope being accused of crimes against humanity, I mean, can you prosecute the pope? Can you prosecute the Vatican?

HOSTIN: Well, that's the thing. I mean, you know, the Holy See is certainly not a member state of the court. However, they are -- you know, there are churches around the world and in those jurisdictions they are sort of members of this court. So it is a stretch.

But the reason they're suing or filing this complaint against the pope is because he was the leader of the Vatican's congregation for the doctrine of the faith and he had responsibility -- overall responsibility for overseeing and prosecuting these abuse cases. And so in that sense, he would be someone that would be subject to suit in front of the ICC. But again, I think it's such a political hot potato, Randi. I think it's unlikely that this will succeed in front of this court.

But it succeeded in the sense that it's brought the issue, once again, in front of the international community. And it's such an important issue. People and children were harmed and continue to be harmed. And so, for that reason alone, I think that it's probably a good move by SNAP.

KAYE: Sunny, hang with us. I want to bring in CNN's Vatican analyst, John Allen, who's also out with a new book, "The Future Church."

John, I want to get your take on this case. If it is picked up by the ICC, the International Criminal Court, what could this mean for the pope and what could it mean for the Vatican?

JOHN ALLEN, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER": Hey, Randi.

Well, I would agree with what Sunny just told you, it's certainly what I've been hearing from international law experts around the world today, which is, it's a long shot that the ICC would touch this. But if that were to happen, it really would be a novelty because while the Vatican has been sued before for its role in the sexual abuse crisis, most prominently in American courts, there's currently a case in federal district court in Oregon that's going on. In each of those cases, it's been able to invoke its sovereign immunity under international law.

Of course the Holy See is a sovereign state. The pope is a head of state. They have diplomatic relations with 179 countries. And so they've been able to use that, if you like, as a shield. And so none of these cases have ever gone beyond the jurisdictional stage of whether courts can even hear them. If the ICC were to open a case for the first time, the Vatican could, at least in theory, be compelled to defend its records, not on jurisdictional grounds, but on the merits. And that would certainly be a new development.

KAYE: John, is there any way that this could be a good thing? I mean, like Sunny mentioned, it might bring it more to the forefront again.

ALLEN: Well, I think it's unquestionably a good thing for the victims and their advocates. I mean as Sunny said, this has already accomplished part of their agenda in keeping the issue alive. And, of course, it is particularly well timed because Benedict XVI, the German pope, is going home next week. He's making his third visit to Germany but his first official state visit meeting with Chancellor Merkel, and delivering an address to the national parliament. Clearly, this creates a kind of subtext to that visit that will keep the spotlight on the sex abuse crisis alive.

Now, whether or not it's a good thing for the Vatican is another question. I think the Vatican has argued over the last decade they have make herculean efforts to try to clean up their act. That is, they have embraced the spirit of a zero tolerance policy. They have now advised bishops around the world to cooperate with police and prosecutors and, in fact, Vatican officials will tell you the Catholic Church is a social pace setter in terms of preventing abuse of children. If that's all true, I suppose one could make the argument that having the opportunity to make that case in open court might, in the long run, be healthy.

KAYE: John Allen, our Vatican analyst, Sunny Hostin, from "In Session", thank you both. We appreciate your time.

So, here's a question for you. How many more Americans were living in poverty in 2010 versus 2009? We will have startling numbers for you in just one minute. Keep it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. Thirty-two minutes past the hour. Let's get you caught on some stories.

In less than an hour, President Obama will be in Columbus, Ohio to sell his job package. He's expected to focus on new construction jobs to modernize public schools. The President plans to pay for his job plan, in part, by limiting tax deductions for wealthier Americans. That's drawing criticism from Republican leaders in Congress. We'll hear from the President next hour, live.

In a still struggling economy, more Americans fell below the poverty line last year. New census data released today indicates that the nation's poverty rate rose to 15.1 percent in 2010, its highest level since '93. That amounts to about 46.2 million people now considered in poverty. 2.6 million more than last year.

Taliban fighters attack the American embassy in Kabul today with rocket propelled grenades and guns. A fierce firefight has been under way for several hours, now. U.S. troops are trying to flush the Taliban out of an abandoned building where the attack was launched. Fewer than ten Taliban are believed to be involved. Our Suzanne Malveaux is near the embassy. She'll be joining us in just a few minutes.

Two Americans could be released from Iran in "a couple of days", according to the president there. That's if the men's families pay the $1 million bail. Josh Fattal and Shane Bauer have been in custody since 2009. Iran sentenced them to eight years for spying and illegal entry. The Americans say they were hiking in Iraq and accidentally strayed across the border into Iran.

Rapper and actor, Tupac Shakur died 15 years ago today after he was gunned down in Las Vegas, although just 25 at the time. MTV said he transcended hip-hop and held by his generation in the same regard as inspirational musical figures like Bob Marley and John Lennon.

Immigration and the election. Rick Perry takes the stand and takes some shots from his fellow Republican presidential candidates. It is all fair game and it's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time now to go beyond partisan talking points to the heart of the political debate where all sides are fair game.

In the wake of last night's CNN Tea Party debate in Florida, we want to talk about immigration and, more specifically, Rick Perry's stand on that issue. Some of his views run contrary to the usual conservative stance, which opened up the Texas governor to a slew of critical comments from his Republican rivals.

We wanted to take a closer look at two of his opinions. He's against a border fence and in favor of in-state tuition for children of illegal immigrants. Listen to the reaction Perry got when he voiced support for that one.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bottom line is, it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is, that is the American way. No matter how you got into that state, from the standpoint of your parents brought you there, or what have you. That's what we've done in the State of Texas and I'm proud that we are having those individuals be contributing members of our society rather than telling them, you go be on the government dole.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAYE: Michele Bachmann responded, calling it un-American. Texas is one of 12 states that allow in-state tuition for the children of illegal immigrants. Utah also allows it. Though, it was already law before fellow GOP presidential candidate and former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman took office.

So, let me bring in my guest now, CNN Contributor and "National Review" columnist Will Cain. Also with us, democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Maria, to you first. Will this issue hurt Perry in the campaign?

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think it will, Randi, just because, even though he got booed last night, going into the Tea Party debate - and from the very beginning, when he jumped into this campaign -- he was always a Tea Party darling. The Tea Party really trusts Rick Perry to carry the mantle of the Tea Party of the extreme right wing agenda.

So, unlike Romney, who the Tea Party has always been suspicious of, Rick Perry, I think, will get a pass on the two issues he talked about last night that were not making the audience very happy. But, I think where he's going to run into trouble is later on, trying to gather -- and the other ones as well -- trying to gather enough support to make it to the White House among Latino voters.

KAYE: Will, what do you think? Is this going to help or hurt the Governor?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Maria, did you hear the audio? I mean, if that crowd is representative at all, the boos suggest that they're going to be dissatisfied with any position short of massive deportations. So, yes. I think it is going to hurt Rick Perry in the primary.

KAYE: But, is this just - I mean, is this just a border state politician looking for support from this huge Latino vote that he has in his state? I mean, I have numbers here, 1.6 million illegals are in Texas. 40 percent of the population is Latino. So, is this just a big move on his part to do that, Maria?

CARDONA: Well, you would think that except for, Randi, the same day that he was talking about immigration to this crowd, he also was seeking the support of Sheriff Joe Arpaio, from Maricopa County, Arizona, who is seen within the Latino community as the most anti- immigrant sheriff - frankly, person -- in the United States.

So, it might help him in Texas -- for the Latino voters in Texas -- but Texas wasn't really in play anyway. So, on a national level, I don't think his stances on border security first and doing nothing to give a legalization pass to the 12 million undocumented immigrants that are here is frankly the solution we're all looking for from comprehensive immigration reform. Which most Latinos and most Americans support, he doesn't support that. So, I don't know where he thinks he's going to gain from this from having said what he said last night.

KAYE: Will, let me ask you this, because Perry did -- he barked back quite a bit, saying he opposes the Federal Dream Act. But, if you take a look at what the Dream Act is all about, it allows for conditioned residents status for the children of illegal immigrants if they are enrolled in college. They get unrestricted lawful permanent status after graduation. And it ends the penalty for tuition breaks for children of illegal immigrants. So, why does he say that he would be against the Dream Act?

CAIN: Well, his position doesn't make sense to me because I, in essence, would be the exact opposite of him. I would be someone who says the Dream Act is an important law to allow children of illegal immigrants, who had no real say in coming to America and have integrated, a path to citizenship. Now, that being said, the Dream Act allows states to choose whether or not to allow for in-state tuition. And Perry, in Texas, has chosen that path -- to give in state tuition to the children of illegal immigrants. That doesn't make sense to me. Now you're talking about people reaping the benefits of all the taxpayers in the society, having never paid into the tax system, and getting in-state tuition. I don't know how he's straddling one of those - I would actually pick positions in the exact opposite of him on that.

KAYE: Yes. All right. We are going to have to leave it there. Maria Cardona, Will Cain, I'm sure we'll continue this discussion over the next year or so. So, we'll see you again soon.

CARDONA: Thanks, Randi.

KAYE: Coming up, the HPV virus vaccine front and center at CNN's Republican Tea Party presidential debate. What exactly is that vaccine? And is it actually a life saver? Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen weighs in on that controversy next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no government purpose, served, for having little girls inoculated at the force and compulsion of the government. This is big government run amuck. It is bad policy. And it should not have been done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That was Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum last night at the CNN Tea Party debate. He was slamming Texas governor, Rick Perry, for his 2007 order that required 12-year-old girls to get vaccinated against HPV, a virus that causes cervical cancer unless parents opted out.

Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, joining us now as parts of this week's in-depth coverage of Rick Perry.

So, let's talk first about HPV. What is it exactly?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's the Human papillomavirus. And it is a virus can cause cervical cancer. And 4,000 women die a year of cervical cancer. So, it's not a huge cancer killer because women get pap smears and that's what prevents it. But HPV is very common, about half of all sexually active Americans will get it at some point in their life. For most people, it's not a big deal, but for some it turns into cancer.

KAYE: Well, obviously, this vaccine is stirring up quite a bit of controversy even now in the Republican debate.

COHEN: Years later, right.

KAYE: Yes. So, I mean, is it safe? Does it work? That's what a lot of people are probably wondering.

COHEN: The Centers for Disease Control says that it is safe and that it does work.

Now, there have been reports of girls getting this vaccine and then getting sick shortly thereafter. And so, these parents have made reports to the government in saying, hey, I don't think this is safe, my child was paralyzed or whatever. And the CDC and other experts say, look, that's a coincidence. Your child got sick within a short time period after taking the vaccine, but they were going to get sick anyhow. You can't prove causality.

KAYE: And when you talk about the age in the girls that were vaccinated, these are pre-teenage girls. Is that about the right age or is that too young?

COHEN: The public health thinking behind this was that you want to get girls before they have sex because this is a sexually- transmitted disease. So if you start at 11, you're more likely to get girls before they have sex. If you start, let's say, at 17, you're going to be missing some.

Now I know some moms who say, look, I don't care that this vaccine is officially is safe, there's a risk to any medicine no matter what. Why should I have my child take a risk when she's not having sex? I'm going to wait until she actually is sexually active. And that certainly is an approach that you can take.

KAYE: So much controversy about vaccines in general all the time, so this certainly is an interesting one.

And you also mention that these children weren't -- these girls weren't forced.

COHEN: Right. In Texas, people using the term forced, but it was a mandate that said girls should get the shot before they go into sixth grade, but if parents don't want it they can opt out. That doesn't seem like much of a mandate to me.

And that is how a lot of vaccinations happen in this country. The state will say, we think you ought to have this vaccine, but do often give parents the opportunity to opt out.

KAYE: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you for the update on all of that. Appreciate that.

The U.S. Embassy in Kabul attacked by the Taliban. A live report from the Afghan capital right after this.

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KAYE: Taliban fighters firing automatic weapons and rocket- propelled grenades attacked the American Embassy in Kabul today. The insurgents also hit NATO headquarters and other sites.

At one point, they were holed up in a building under construction -- you can see it there in this picture -- that offered a bird's eye view of diplomatic and military compounds about a half mile away. The attack is raising new questions about the security of Kabul and the foreigners working there.

Suzanne Malveaux has been in the streets covering the fighting for us. She joins us now.

Suzanne, what is going on there at this hour?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, actually, what we've just learned from Afghan police is that it three of those four insurgents inside of that abandoned building have been killed. There's a fourth that is missing that they are looking for.

We're told that the police entered that building just a short time ago. They're going floor to floor trying to find that fourth individual. That they're up now on the fifth floor. That so far there's been very little gunfire to actually find this individual, but there is still somebody they're looking for. That is why you've got the U.S. Embassy that essentially was on lockdown for much of the day. This has gone on for hours and hours, close to nine hours now, this kind of standoff.

What we were able to see on the ground earlier today is a lot of Afghan police, army, international forces who are on the ground outside of the U.S. Embassy, outside of the NATO compound and in intelligence offices trying to keep the crowds book, trying to keep people calm. There were explosions that were going off, gunfire that could be heard in the air.

We also had a chance to see some folks who were carried on stretchers, brought to a local hospital. And then, Randi, we saw a man who had been killed on the back of a pickup truck that was heading into a military hospital. We learned from the official outside of that hospital that it was actually one of those insurgents who had been killed who was inside of that building.

I want to give you a sense of what it was like earlier this afternoon right outside the compound that was under attack.

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MALVEAUX: We've managed to get a little bit closer to the U.S. Embassy that's under attack. And right down the street here is where are we heard the gunfire and the explosions. There's a little bit of a crowd that's gathered right here, but you can see Afghan police as well as many others who are trying to just keep the crowd at bay.

This is fairly close by. There's the police, the Afghan police, also involved in this fire fight. But further down you can see the barbed wire, you can see the compound, the concrete there. That is where we heard the loud explosions. This battle is not yet over.

What makes this so powerful for people in community here is the fact that it really is at the heart of the city. These are the power brokers, you're talking about the international police force, the Afghan officials, intelligence officials, at the heart of the security apparatus, and that is where this fire fight is taking place. It is meant to make the people here afraid of the transition are, afraid of Afghans taking over their he own security.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: And, Randi, just to let you know, three other attacks happened this afternoon, one on Airport Road, another that was right outside a high school and another one at a police compound. In total, there were seven people that we're told, latest figures, that were killed, 17 injured.

This was a very bold and brazen attack by the Taliban, essentially at the heart of the security's apparatus inside of Kabul -- Randi.

KAYE: Suzanne Malveaux in Kabul for us. Suzanne, thank you, and stay safe.

It is a discovery that could change the food we eat and put an end to food recalls. It it's our "Big I" next.

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KAYE: Have you ever reached into your fridge, say, for that, oh, so delicious cut of steak that's been on your mind all day only to find that it's rotten? Don't you hate that? But a new discovery could put an end to your meat going bad and more importantly, all of those food recalls that we tell you about. And it seems like we're always telling you about them.

Just yesterday, Cargill Meat Solutions announced for the second time in less than six weeks a recall of ground turkey products after tests found that they were contaminated with a strain of salmonella bacteria that can prove fatal. A hundred and eight-five pounds of ground turkey product have been recalled.

Now, in August, it was, yes, 36 million pounds of recalled meat from the same company for the same variant of the bacteria. At least 111 people from 31 states were infected, no one was -- actually, one person was killed.

Now, a year earlier, August 2010, remember the egg recall? Over 500 million eggs recalled for fear again of salmonella. No deaths were reported, but more than it 3,182 people were with infected from 11 states.

A year before that, January 2009, a huge peanut recall. Yes, again, because of potential salmonella potential, and this one was deadly. The CDC says not only were more than 714 people infected from 46 states, but nine deaths are believed to be linked.

And who can forget the 2006 spinach recall that pretty much affected all fresh spinach in the country? This one was because of E. coli contamination. Over 205 people from 26 states were infected, at least three deaths occurred.

So for today's "Big I" segment I want to talk more about this. I want to introduce our guest, Dan O'Sullivan.

Dan, first tell us exactly what you've discovered and how.

DR. DAN O'SULLIVAN, MICROBIOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Well, what we have discovered is a small little protein or small little peptide that belonging to a class of antimicrobial proteins that we call lantibiotics. And these essentially generally have a fairly broad spectrum range of activity. However, the current lantibiotics that are available for food only are fairly limited in the type of bacteria and don't have activity against E. coli or salmonella. This one actually has activity against the E. colis or salmonella.

The novelty of this particular one is that it actually has activity against the E. colis and salmonella and therefore, potentially -- and I use the word potentially -- it can protect foods against these very well-known ant-antigens (ph).

KAYE: So is there a chance this could actually prevent meat outbreaks and E. coli outbreaks for good?

DAN: It has the potential, yes, because if essentially it can be utilized in, for example, ground turkey, for example, well, it will kill any salmonella that would be present and therefore it would offer an added layer of insurance. I mean, that's what's missing right now, is a layer of insurance could protect against these things. And therefore, can if you can do that, it will improve consumer confidence in our food safety.

KAYE: So this sounds really good, but for anyone watching, they might wonder, well, how do we get this in our food and is this safe.

DAN: Yes. Well, this actually is proved by what we call a probiotic bacteria. So in my lab we weren't with even look anything like this. We were studying probiotic bacterium, which is bacteria that we actually eat in our food everyday to keep our gut healthy. And we were using a genomics approach to try to understand how these bacteria function inside of us.

And it was when we actually obtained the genome sequence we actually saw the blueprint as it were, the genes, for a potential antibiotic. And then we set about looking to see, could we actually identify this and isolate it. So really it was a reversal genomics approach that we actually identified it.

But it's because it it's a foodgrade bacterium and we normally eat it anyhow, well then, essentially it is -- it is safe for people to eat.

KAYE: Dan O'Sullivan, microbiologist at the University of Minnesota, thank you so much for your time today.

And for much more about these superpreservatives, you can check out my Facebook page, RandiKayeCNN.