Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Five Days Until Execution; Texas Execution Halted; Rebels Enter Gadhafi Hometown; Trader Charged With Fraud In UBS Case; Senate Dems Want More Information On Jobs Bill; Pat Robertson Controversy; Teachers Leaving The Classroom; Third Alleged Victim Goes Public; Nancy Grace Dancing With The Stars; Dogs used at Camp Atterbury in Indiana for returning troops; Comparing Rick Perry to George W. Bush
Aired September 16, 2011 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: It is 1:00 p.m. in the East, five days and six hours before the state of Georgia plans to execute a man who many people think is innocent, or at least was wrongly convicted. Troy Davis has spent 20 years on Georgia's death row for the killing of a Savannah police officer in the summer of 1989. There was no physical evidence against him and seven of the state's nine witnesses have since recanted or contradicted their testimony.
This time yesterday, I told you box loads of petitions were being dropped off at the Georgia board of pardons and paroles which is Troy Davis' last real hope for living beyond next Wednesday night. Those boxes contain 663,000 signatures, and today many of those people will take part in what's being called an international day of solidarity.
Rallies, Marches, vigils, teach-ins and other events are planned across the country and abroad from Britain to Japan to Australia, just look at the map there. Some of the bigger U.S. events will take place in San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, Chicago, Austin, Ann Arbor, New York, Washington, and right here in Atlanta. My colleague, David Mattingly, will be at that one. So David, the question is really who is behind all of these rallies and this whole day of trying to help Troy Davis, and what do they actually expect to accomplish?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the main group is Amnesty International, NAACP, ACLU, these are all organizations opposed to the death penalty. But what this case a little bit different from others that we've seen in the past as we approach the 11th hour, there are hundreds of thousands of people -- you saw their signatures on those petitions that were delivered, these are people -- a lot of these people may not typically be against the death penalty. These are people who are looking at the case thinking that there are doubts here and that an execution needs to be stopped. There's a lot of people pushing to have his sentence commuted and not have him set free. You don't see a lot of people coming right out and saying this man is innocent.
KAYE: Speaking of those, though, who do think that he should be set free, or at least the case looked at, some names might actually surprise you, they surprised us. We have the former FBI director, William Sessions, who wrote an op-ed in the newspaper in Atlanta yesterday saying, he writes, the evidence in this case consisting almost entirely of conflicting stories, testimonies and statements is inadequate to the task of convincingly establishing either Davis' guilt or his innocence.
MATTINGLY: And sessions is not just a former FBI director, he is a former federal judge, former federal prosecutor, and he's joined by the likes of Jimmy Carter, the Vatican and over 50 members of Congress who have signed a letter that is going to the parole board.
KAYE: And yet there are still those who believe that he should be on death row and that he should be executed in just a few days. We have the family of the murdered officer coming out adamantly saying that they have the right man. And also the prosecutor, the former Savannah prosecutor, the D.A., Spencer Lawton. We have a quote from him as well saying, that "The trial was fair. Davis was represented by superbly skilled criminal defense lawyers. He was convicted by a fair jury, seven black and five white members. The jury found that Davis after shooting another man earlier in the evening murdered a police officer who came to the rescue of a homeless man Davis had beaten."
MATTINGLY: And that's an important point. Spencer Lawton points out that there is physical evidence in this case. He says the shell casings from that earlier shooting in which Davis was convicted --
KAYE: Which we don't hear a lot about.
MATTINGLY: Right. Also match the shell casings from the murder of this police officer. So, he says there is physical evidence there. This is a case that's not completely void of physical evidence.
KAYE: So, when you look at the parole board, that's whose hands his future really lies in. What are their options?
MATTINGLY: Their options are they can commute his sentence to life without parole, life, they can ask for a 90-day stay while they consider this case, or they can just deny clemency and let the election -- the execution go on as planned on Wednesday. But if you look at the history of this board, we shouldn't expect any surprises here. In 33 years, they've only granted eight cases clemency, only eight. And this is out of 63 cases they've considered.
But something really surprised me. Out of the cases where they've already gone to an inmate, looked at the case and says no, we're not going to grant clemency which they've already done in Davis' case, the number of times that they have reversed themselves, gone back on their decision is zero. And they have already done this once in his case and it doesn't look -- if it does, they will be making history by going back on their previous decision.
KAYE: And just very, very quickly. We should point out that there was a federal hearing last summer. Right? They did listen to this case again and they found again that he should go back to death row.
MATTINGLY: So much has been said about these seven of nine eyewitnesses that have recanted. The federal judge looked very closely at those statements that have come out since then, and they found them not to be credible. They believe that the real credibility of this case was from the people who were under oath and in a trial that happened 20 years ago.
KAYE: Well, we will continue to watch it, of course. David, thank you for your reporting on that and the new information, appreciate that.
A death row inmate in Texas who was scheduled to be executed last night got a last-second reprieve. The highest court in the land stopped the lethal injection of Dwayne Edward Buck after he'd eaten his last meal. Buck was convicted of killing two people in 1995, one of them in front of her own daughter. The issue now is testimony from a psychologist who told Buck's jury that black or Hispanic defendants were more likely to commit future crimes. Buck will stay on death row while the supreme court reviews his appeal.
This just in to CNN, the United Nations has voted in favor of allowing the National Transitional Council to represent Libya at the U.N. General assembly next week. Staying in Libya, anti-Gadhafi fighters made their way into the ousted Libya leader's home town of Sirte. Intense firefighters broke out in the streets, and it is unclear how many casualties there are. Meanwhile, a transitional council delegation is demanding that neighboring Niger turn over one of Gadhafi's sons, Sathi, who recently fled there along with other regime officials.
Police in London have charged a bank trader with fraud. A day after his arrest in connection with about $2 billion worth of unauthorized deals at Swiss banking giant UBS. You see the man in question, KuKu Dubli, in a photo taken from his Facebook page. The profile was taken down shortly after the news of his arrest INAUDIBLE. He was expected to appear in court today to answer the charges of fraud and false accounting. So far, UBS is not commenting on that arrest.
Some Senate Democrats aren't exactly welcoming President Obama's jobs and debt cutting plan with open arms. The White House gave them a close-up look at the plan Thursday. While some members voiced their total support, others said that due to the size of the bill, they'd like to see more specifics. The plan is set to go before the 12 members of Congress's bipartisan super committee on Monday.
Just ahead, more than an embarrassment, more than cruelty, that's how one person labeled Pat Robertson's Alzheimer's comments. You will hear them next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Television evangelist, Pat Robertson, is no stranger to controversy, but his most recent comments indirectly advising a husband to divorce his wife because she has Alzheimer's have struck a very raw nerve among many people, especially Christians. I want you to hear just what Robertson said on his 700 club program on the Christian broadcasting network.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT ROBERTSON, "THE 700 CLUB": I know it sounds cruel but if he's going to do something, he should divorce her and start all over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Robertson's comment came in response to a caller who said that a friend had begun dating other women while his wife is seriously ill with Alzheimer's. We invited Robertson on our show but he declined. He also declined to provide us a written statement. Back now to what he said. Many of you are asking how could a man of the cloth give such advice? Also asking that question is Russell Moore, Dean of the School of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.
Here is a quote from his article in the "Baptist Press News." Quote, "This is more than an embarrassment. This is more than cruelty. This is a repudiation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." Dean Moore joins us now from Louisville. Thank you so much for coming on the show to talk about this. Those are some pretty strong words that you wrote there.
DEAN MOORE, DEAN, SCHOOL OF THEOLOGY, SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, it is a grievance thing to hear a Christian leader speak in this way when, according to the Christian scriptures, marriage is a picture of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is a repudiation of everything that we're about. A man is to love his wife, the bible says, as Christ loves the church. And that includes in weakness, that includes in those times of sickness, and so this is -- this is horrifying. And this doesn't speak for Christians.
KAYE: Whatever happened to, until death do we part and for better or for worse?
MOORE: Well, I think that you'll find that the majority of bible-believing Christians are holding fast to those words and holding faithfully to those words. Caring for one another and caring for spouses who are harmed, and who are injured, and who are sick. That's exactly what Christianity is about. Christianity isn't about power. It's not about loving someone who is useful to you. It's about what Jesus has done for us in the gospel which is to love us when we're useless, and to love us when we're done for, and when we're completely marginalized. That's what the gospel does and that's what a Christian marriage is to do.
KAYE: So, when you think about the number of supporters and the number of people who believe in Pat Robertson, what kind of damage could a statement like that do?
MOORE: Well, I think it does great damage because I think there are many non-Christian friends and neighbors of ours who believe that Pat Robertson or others who articulate this kind of message of a Christianity based on power and usefulness as speaking for Jesus when that's not the way that Jesus speaks. Jesus speaks about loving the weak and the marginalized. He speaks about a gospel that comes after us with the blood that redeems and heals and is faithful to the point of taking up a cross and carrying it. That's what the gospel is about. And so, I'm afraid if people see this kind of message, they'll assume that that's Jesus Christ and it's just not.
KAYE: I don't want to put you on the spot but I will. If you were asked this question, sitting on that couch, and this advice, what advice would you have given?
MOORE: Well, that doesn't put me on the spot at all. I would say, love your wife and remain faithful to your wife, care for her and meet her needs as you would your own body, as Jesus has done for you, all the way to the point of death.
KAYE: And does it surprise you that -- I would think it would -- that he would suggest the word, divorce?
MOORE: It does surprise me, although I have to say, in recent years, Reverend Robertson and some others have been making increasingly embarrassing and inflammatory statements. Although I think this goes beyond even anything else I've heard.
KAYE: Dean Russell Moore, appreciate your time and your insight there into that story. Thank you very much.
MOORE: Thank you.
KAYE: So, why is a passionate award-winning teacher quitting the job that she loves? Most any teacher could probably answer that question. Up next, a look at the education crisis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Today in our CNN series "Fix Our Schools," a sad reality. Nearly half of all public schoolteachers quit before their fifth teaching anniversary. One big reason -- low pay, especially when compared to teachers elsewhere in the world. Our Natasha Curry meant one teacher who is leaving the classroom she says regrettably.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LINDA DEREGNAUCOURT, HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: The cosign of any angle is what?
My name is Linda Darling Deregnaucourt (ph). I've been teaching for 13 years. My first year of teaching I got an award called Rookie Teacher of the Year. Later on, I got teacher of the year again. I've got an 100 percent pass rate in the AB (ph) Calculus for the past seven years.
NATASHA CURRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By all accounts, Linda is one of those high-performing teachers we all want our children to have.
DEREGNAUCOURT: This was a book that in my first year of teaching the students made. CURRY: But on a salary of $38,000 a year, which, after taxes, leaves her with about $2,400 a month, she says she can no longer stretch her paycheck to cover expenses.
DEREGNAUCOURT: When you start taking out rent, utilities, car payments, there's nothing left. It's demoralizing to you.
CURRY: After five years without a raise, Linda has decided to call it quits. She's going back to school to become a nurse and will earn, on average, about $62,000 a year, $24,000 more than what she makes now.
CURRY (on camera): How hard was it to make that decision to leave?
DEREGNAUCOURT: It's heartbreaking. (INAUDIBLE). I'm sorry.
CURRY (voice-over): In the past 10 years, the average salary for a U.S. teacher has only increased 3.4 percent in today's dollars.
CURRY (on camera): And in some states like Florida, the average has actually dropped. For many teachers, summer is no longer about taking breaks, but finding extra work to make ends meet.
CURRY (voice-over): Some educators blame stagnating wages for teaching's high turnover rate. Every year, 14 percent of U.S. teachers leave the profession, 46 percent leave before their fifth year on the job.
NINIVE CALEGARI, FOUNDER, "THE TEACHER SALARY PROJECT": When you look at high-achieving countries, their turnover rates are 3 percent or lower. And so they work very, very hard to not only attract teachers that are -- that they suspect are going to be successful, but they work incredibly hard to train them, and then they do whatever it takes to retain them. And we don't do that.
DEREGNAUCOURT: I'm not saying they may not find an amazing teacher to replace me who also motivates the kids, who also inspires the kids, who also loves the kids. But what if they don't? Who pays the price?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: And a side note to this story. A teacher strike in Tacoma, Washington, now in its fourth day. An overwhelming number of teaches voted to defy a judge's order to return to work. The teachers are striking over pay and class size.
Fullerton, California, Police face another federal lawsuit for police brutality. A third alleged victim goes public. Plus, his connection to the death of Kelly Thomas. We'll bring you the latest in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: In today's "Crime & Consequence," the allegations against the Fullerton Police deepen. The list of alleged victims is growing. If you've been watching this show, you know that we've been closely following the case of Kelly Thomas. The homeless man in Fullerton, California, who was allegedly beaten death by six Fullerton police officers. The picture I'm about to show you is graphic, but it may give you a true understanding of the brutality involved in Kelly Thomas' case and what his family attorney says is an example of a pattern or procedure of brutality by Fullerton Police. Take a look. This is Kelly Thomas before and after his alleged beating on July 5th. Witnesses say he was repeatedly beaten, kicked, Tasered, and hog tied by six Fullerton officers.
But the allegations against the city's police force go beyond the Thomas case. A third alleged victim is now stepping forward. David Begnaud has been covering this story closely for our affiliate KTLA and is standing by for this news conference that will be starting shortly.
David, thank you for your time. I know you have a busy day there. But this is just the latest victim to come forward and file a complaint. What do we know about him?
DAVID BEGNAUD, KTLA REPORTER: His name is Eddie Quinonez, Randi. And a year prior to the Kelly Thomas incident, one year prior to what happened to Kelly Thomas, Eddie Quinonez says he's on the streets of Fullerton. He's watching someone be cited. And all of a sudden he goes up to this officer, whose name is Kenton Hampton, and he starts saying, hey, what's going on. He's watching. He's observing.
Mr. Quinonez says all of a sudden Officer Hampton turns to him, arrests him, roughs him up, according to Mr. Quinonez, and charges him with drunk in public. There's just one big problem -- he had no alcohol in his system. His blood alcohol level was zero, Randi. He did not go to court. No charges were filed. And a personnel complaint was filed against Officer Hampton. Officer Hampton said to be the same officer involved in the Kelly Thomas death a year later.
KAYE: Now this incident happened last year and I do want to mention just very quickly that we did reach out to the Fullerton Police Department about this very latest complaint. We were told by the department that they declined to comment, saying that they hadn't seen the complaint or the allegations. Why do you think that he's waited so long to come forward about this?
BEGNAUD: Well, quite honestly, he says he was a little fearful to come forward. He thought he had done enough by filing that personnel complaint with the Fullerton Police Department. He expected something would be done. But he actually -- here is his connection to Kelly Thomas. He actually is a witness to what happened to Kelly Thomas. He was at the bus depot in Fullerton that night. So once Kelly died an once the news media picked up on what had happened, he finally felt comfortable to come forward and say, wait a minute, here's what I saw happen to Kelly and here is what happened to me at the hands of that very same officer one year earlier.
KAYE: And we know from the D.A. that they actually interviewed this man about the beating of Kelly Thomas. Do we know or do you know what he might have told them or what he says he witnessed?
BEGNAUD: Right. We don't know the details of that conversation, but the district attorney is well aware of what happened to Mr. Quinonez. And, Randi, here is what -- here's what's interesting. Of the six Fullerton police officer on leave in the death of Kelly Thomas, five of them are being represented by one attorney and officer Kenton Hampton, the man in question here, has his own attorney. Why the city of Fullerton decided to get an attorney just for Officer Hampton is very interesting.
KAYE: It sure is. But I do have one more question because I want to try and help make this connection here. The attorney who's representing Kelly Thomas' family in this latest tragedy is also representing another man, (INAUDIBLE), plus this latest victim, Eddie Q. Is he suggesting -- has he told you that if this officer had been possibly taken off the job that maybe these other instances wouldn't have happened, maybe Kelly Thomas would be alive?
BEGNAUD: That's exactly what they're saying. You've got three men here. Two of them are alive. One of them is dead. But all three of them have had contacts with this one officer. And now Mr. Quinonez goes all the way back to June of 2010, one year prior, he filed a complaint with the Fullerton Police Department. Then a couple of months later, Mr. Vethman (ph) says he was falsely arrested by that officer. Again, notified the Fullerton Police Department. Had he video of what happened to him. And then, a year later, Kelly Thomas died after the incident with those six officers.
KAYE: David Begnaud, appreciate your time. I know we're going to talk to you a little bit more after this press conference, so you'll be bringing us some new information in our next hour.
BEGNAUD: We'll see you then.
KAYE: Thank you very much.
And we do want to make clear that the Orange D.A. has not released the names of the officer involved in the Kelly Thomas case, so we are continuing to follow that and to try and get those names confirmed.
Meanwhile, a mining tragedy in Wales. Men trapped underground by rushing water. We'll have that story for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Well, let's get you caught up on some of the stories that you may have missed.
Today is the international day of solidarity for Georgia death row inmate Troy Davis. Support continues to grow for Davis, how has spent the last 20 years on death row for the killing of a Savannah police officer. He was convicted mainly on witness testimony. And almost all of those witnesses have now recanted. And that has united thousands of supporters all over the world from Britain to Japan to Australia. Petitions signed by more than 600,000 people were brought to the Georgia Parole Board yesterday ahead of a hearing on Monday. Barring a decision of clemency, Davis is scheduled to die by lethal injection on Wednesday.
British police say three miners have been found dead in a mine in Wales. Still no word on the fate of a fourth missing miner. They became trapped on Thursday when their coal mine flooded. Rescue official say water suddenly rushed into the mine shaft from another abandoned mine. Pumps are being used to reduce water levels as the search continues. Three miners managed to escape, including one who was hospitalized.
More than a third of Americans say the U.S. would be better off now if Secretary of State Hillary Clinton were president, according to a new poll. In the Bloomberg survey, 34 percent think America would be superior under a Hillary Clinton administration, while 47 percent say it would be about the same, and 13 percent say it would be worse. The former first lady and New York senator has shot down any speculation that she might challenge President Obama for the Democratic nomination.
You know Nancy Grace from her legal show on our sister network HLN, but now she's under a very different spotlight. Nancy will appear on ABC's "Dancing With The Stars." And earlier this morning, she, along with her dancing partner, talked with Kyra Phillips about what it's like. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRISTAN MCMANUS, "DANCING WITH THE STARS" PRO: Nancy's doing great.
NANCY GRACE, HLN: Yes.
MCMANUS: She's picking up everything. She --
GRACE: Good.
MCMANUS: She listens.
GRACE: Good.
MCMANUS: She listens -- she listens to what she wants to hear.
GRACE: Listen, this is the deal. Day one dance practice, I'm minding my own business, I'm trying to do the cha cha cha and then I hear, no, no, no. I'm like, what?
PHILLIPS: Oh, you're getting some of your own medicine there Nancy.
GRACE: He was talking to me. There was a little slap involved.
MCMANUS: Nancy -- Nancy's a professional dancer now so we're going to treat her as such.
PHILLIPS: So -- so, Tristan -- GRACE: I think you can see from that video there's nothing professional going on there on my part anyway.
PHILLIPS: No, I think your cha cha looks pretty good. Now, Tristan, did you have any idea, you know, like, how, you know, big of a name you were dealing with here? I mean, you know Nancy's reputation. I mean, she will eat you alive, pal, if you go against anything she says.
MCMANUS: Yes, she's trying to -- she's trying to. I didn't have any -- I didn't have any worries coming in.
GRACE: Did you feel that? Did you feel that?
MCMANUS: I felt it (INAUDIBLE). I think, yes, I didn't have any worries coming in because, to be honest with you, I didn't know who I was dancing with. But --
GRACE: You know, that is so sad because I looked on his computer, Google, Yahoo, who is the real Nancy Grace, just search after search. So sad.
MCMANUS: You see the relationship that we have here. I don't generally get to finish anything I'm saying a lot of the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: You and everybody else that comes on her show. Well, good luck Nancy. We will be rooting for you.
They're known as the Welcome Home Dogs at Camp Atterbury in Indian. These four-legged friends are actually specially trained dogs to help lighten the mood for troops as they return from overseas. When troops come home they first have to be processed and, of course, debriefed but the transition coming from Iraq and Afghanistan can be pretty difficult for some so while they wait, instead of being anxious, they can relax and enjoy playing with these puppies. As of now, there are only two programs in the nation just like it.
They were both elected Governor of Texas, they are both conservative and are fans of the evangelical crowd but is Rick Perry George W. Bush 2.0? Everything is fair game, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: The U.S. Supreme Court has halted the execution of Duane Buck, issuing a temporary stay of his sentence while the court reviews his case. Buck was convicted in Texas where 235 prisoners have been executed during Rick Perry's 11 years as Governor.
At a GOP debate when Perry was asked about those executions many in the crowd applauded when that number was read but Perry's cowboy gunslinger image is causing headaches within the GOP. Meghan McCain wrote a column in The Daily Beast today where she expresses a concern of many moderate Republicans that Rick Perry would lose a general election because he is George W. Bush 2.0, as she put it.
Is that a fair critique? Is Rick Perry George W. Bush 2.0? That topic is Fair Game for today's panel. Wayne Slater is Senior Political Writer for the Dallas Morning News. I'm also joined today by CNN Contributor Will Cain and CNN Political Analyst Roland Martin.
Wayne, before we get to the -- the specific comparisons between the two, is Perry a sort of 2.0 Bush or is this really all just an image that his team is trying to sell to the public? Would this be a good thing?
WAYNE SLATER, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, DALLAS MORNING NEWS: It's a -- well, actually, those are two questions. One, he is George Bush cubed, not just 2.0. He is everything we thought that George Bush was, the caricature of Bush, he's the real thing. He really did grow up on a west Texas farm. He really is kind of a west Texas boot- scooting Aggie like another member of this panel, an Aggie, that would be Roland.
Yes, that's right. And, so, he really is more conservative than Bush, he's more partisan than Bush. He is actually, politically, more savvy than Bush. Is that a good thing? Well, it depends on how you see George W. Bush. Some people think it is not.
KAYE: Well, Will, let me turn to you --
WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
KAYE: -- I mean, is the fact that he could be more conservative, is -- is that -- could that be a problem? I mean, would that mean little crossover appeal or not?
CAIN: No, first, let me say, he is not George Bush 2.0. He is maybe, stylistically, George Bush 2.0, as Wayne suggested. All I heard was style issues from Wayne right there, meaning, yes, he's boots and swagger and twang but the truth is, Randi, that's going to help. The nation likes that stuff. They hear that, all that Texas stuff which, by the way, you've got three Texans on the panel, and they think leadership.
SLATER: A Longhorn.
CAIN: The nation sees that and thinks leadership. That's going to help. And, as far as the moderate thing, look, the moderate thing is a false distinction. The distinction is between smart substantive Republicans and image level populous. I'm not worried about Rick Perry turning off Independents because he is too conservative. I'm worried about him threatening to beat up Ben Bernanke.
KAYE: Oh wait, is that the Aggie talking?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Hey Randi, and my stock as a Longhorn just keeps (INAUDIBLE)-- of course, am I shocked a Longhorn just spews that nonsense? First and foremost, to sit here and suggest that the image doesn't matter and people like it, yes, voters do like confident politicians but, also, you remember eight years of President George W. Bush?
A lot of people said they couldn't stand the arrogance of the President. In terms of yes, I'll do what I -- I'll do what I say but that was a problem.
If you're -- If you're President Obama and his campaign team, you love George W. Bush 2.0 because that's what the election was all about in 2008 and they will go after -- if Rick Perry is the nominee, they will sit here and tie him to Bush and, like it or not, Republicans around this country don't even want to campaign with Bush and you better pay attention, Will, to those Independent voters because you may try to criticize Meghan McCain that cute way you just did but Independent voters will remember those years of President Bush.
KAYE: Well, you know, there -- I mean, certainly, George Bush was -- was looked at at times as being a bit extreme and, now, if you look at what's going on with Rick Perry, I mean, there -- there are some who would say that he could be viewed as too extreme as well, calling Social Security a Ponzi scheme, we have the HPV mandate for the young girls in Texas. I could mention a few more but is -- is that a risk here, Wayne?
SLATER: It -- it could be a risk. I would never take issue with Roland about anything but, one thing that the Perry believe on the inside, one thing they strongly believe is that this is a different kind of year and what people early thought was maybe a problem, this guy looks like George W. Bush, George Bush 2, may not be a problem in this year, his political consultant, Dave Carney, thinks.
He thinks that Republicans, especially in the Republican primary, want someone who will preach red meat rhetoric, someone who looks strong and will not back down from a fight because they see the primary process as one in which Republicans will pick someone, a fighter, a strong fighter, to go into the ring against Barack Obama and if the economy is bad in a year from now then they think that this Republican will have a chance to win, as Roland said, some of those independents.
KAYE: I wanted to --
MARTIN: One thing Randi --
KAYE: Yes, go ahead.
MARTIN: -- when President -- when George W. Bush ran in 2000, he focused on compassionate conservatism. That was very appealing to the Republican white female voters in those suburban areas because they were ticked off at Newt Gingrich and his group from 1992 and 1996. Perry does not come across as compassionate conservative and, so, that, again, I go to Independent voters. That may very well be a problem for Perry.
KAYE: Will, I want to ask you because I do want -- we mentioned this -- this death row case at the very top of this segment, this Duane Buck who was spared, really, at the last minute. And, this was basically because a psychologist had testified that blacks and Hispanics were more likely to commit crimes, future crimes, if they were spared, if they were put back on the street.
So, Perry, though, we know at this recent debate was asked about death row and asked about the number of executions in Texas that he has -- he has been there for and he says he's -- he's never struggled with the notion of innocent people being executed in his state.
Now, we see this guy granted a stay, his case is going to be looked at again. Will this come back to bite him, Will?
CAIN: You know, Randi, Rick Perry has a host of issues that will come back to bite him. Regarding that specific case, it was an unfortunate incident in the debate when he had a crowd applause when Perry said these things. The point of capital punishment is that it is a tool of justice, not to be relished but to be done with some hesitation and humbleness.
But, regarding Perry and what Wayne said earlier, we can't paint Perry as this conservative extremist because he's not. What he is is an unreliable politician. His problems like in things like crony capitalism and an infidelity to true principled conservatism. I think we need to continue to distinguish between this extremist and moderate rhetoric we hear because that is not the issue conservatives have to debate with Rick Perry.
MARTIN: But -- but the problem with this case, Randi, is very simple and that is when John Corning was the AG they compiled all of these cases and win this particular line of viewpoint in terms of blacks and Hispanics being more violent was used, they went back and re-tried those cases. This was the one case they didn't. Now, it's clear that this guy actually did it. So, the issue is not innocence or guilt, it was how this was used in sentencing.
KAYE: Right.
MARTIN: If Perry was smart, what he should have said was we did the other cases, we'll redo this one as out of fairness but it's clear that he actually did this. I think he missed an opportunity to show some compassion but still be strong on death penalty.
KAYE: Wayne, I'll give you 20 seconds left on this topic.
SLATER: I, look -- look, Perry -- neither Perry nor his predecessor George W. Bush nor his predecessor Ann Richards could look like they were soft on the death penalty in Texas. Perry was not about to do this. This is a troubling case. Roland is right because the question is is a person being executed because he is black? For a governor in a southern state, southern western state, who chants states' rights that's a problem.
MARTIN: Absolutely.
KAYE: All right. Wayne, Will, Roland another great discussion. Thank you so much guys. Appreciate it.
SLATER: It's a pleasure Randi.
CAIN: Thanks.
MARTIN: Thanks.
KAYE: Have a great weekend. How long can you swim without stopping? One minute? Maybe one hour? How about 29 hours? Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us to talk about the amazing endurance of long distance swimmer Diana Nyad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Imagine this, going for an hour-long swim and then doing it again and again and again for 59 more hours. That's what endurance swimmer Diana Nyad attempted to do this summer. We told you about her epic bid to become the first person to swim between Cuba and Florida without a shark cage. Well, she didn't make it, calling it quits after swimming for 29 hours and enduring countless jellyfish stings, rough seas, and an asthma attack on top of that. But, her journey has been nothing short of incredible. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been following Diana's story now for over a year and you're joining us now in the studio to tell us a little bit more about it. She is incredible. Now, how old is she? She is in her 60's, right?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: She's 62 now.
KAYE: Incredible.
GUPTA: She was a long-distance swimmer when she was in her 20s, late 20s, as she broke some world records, did things that no human being has ever done, and then basically for 30 years didn't swim.
And then it was like an unrequited love. That's -- that's how I would best describe it. She just never gave up on this dream and she decided to do the swim from Florida to Cuba again. It is hard to eat, it is hard to drink. And the elements, including sharks, which is a question I had for her, take a listen to what she specifically had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): One of their biggest concerns -- sharks.
LUKE TIPPLE, TEAM'S SHARK DIVER: These are great waters for sharks.
GUPTA: Luke Tipple is the team's lead shark diver. He knows just how dangerous these waters can be.
TIPPLE: We're catching this (INAUDIBLE) that is hanging off the back of the boat.
In these particular waters, we'll be looking for oceanic white tips, hammerheads, tiger sharks, Caribbean reef sharks.
This animal has evolved to dominate the ocean.
They have a sixth sense. They can feel the electricity in the water. They know that we're there.
GUPTA: And that's why in 1978, Diana swam in a shark cage. Today, she just uses this.
DIANA NYAD, SWIMMER: Sharks are tremendously sensitive to this. This is actually in the kayak.
GUPTA: It's called a shark shield. And off the coast of the Bahamas, Tipple shows us how it works.
It's a shark-feeding frenzy at this block of chum, until Tipple approaches and turns on the shark shield that hangs right above it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: That's frightening.
GUPTA: So, you're going to have to watch the documentary to see what happens.
KAYE: Such a tease, but a very good one.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: But, listen, you mentioned malnutrition and dehydration. What was this journey like for her? She couldn't eat?
GUPTA: So, she has to do it in a very specific way. She literally just has her bathing suit, her bathing cap and goggles, no wet suit. She can't touch the boat at any given time either. So she literally will swim up to the side of the boat, tread water and people will feed her while she is doing that.
So she is never really stopping. And as far as fluids go, it is sort of a similar thing. They will create these special concoctions of fluids that she's determined are going to be the best for her, not make her stomach too upset. They will put it in a pouch and then just throw it out on a line in the water, and she will grab the pouch while she's swimming and drink or go on her back for a little bit and drink. And that's essentially how she gets hydrated.
But she's losing so much fluid and she is losing so many calories doing this that really experts the I talk to said it is impossible to keep up. So she just tries to do the best that she can. But she's going to lose probably, doing a swim like this, anywhere between 25 to 30 pounds during that time.
KAYE: Oh, my.
GUPTA: Yes.
KAYE: We mentioned the jellyfish stinks. We mentioned the fact that she was dehydrated. But what really was it -- maybe it was the sharks, I don't know, but what really caused her to stop?
GUPTA: It's interesting. And I think most likely -- and I have talked to her a few times -- she started to developing shoulder pain. And I think the shoulder was bothering her. She had had shoulder pain in the other shoulder previously.
They did everything. They put ice on it. They gave her various medications. She thinks that one of the medications they gave her actually caused a little bit of an allergic reaction and she started having asthma. And she just simply could not breathe, could not coordinate her breathing.
One thing I will point out, Randi, is that all this happened pretty early on in the swim, but she still went 59 miles. She still swam 29 hours despite that. So it was really remarkable near the end there how she just -- it was all mental fortitude at that point.
KAYE: She seems to have such incredible energy to be around. I can't even imagine.
GUPTA: She's so inspiring. When I'm digging deep, like when I'm training myself and I need something to focus on, it is Diana.
KAYE: Did she give you some tips?
GUPTA: Oh, she gave me tons of tips.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: Any that you can use?
GUPTA: Well, yes. The biggest thing is never leave anything out there. What you hear all the time -- you go to the gym a lot. Never leave anything out there. Give it your all every single day.
And I think that that's -- we say it as almost to placate people or as a platitude, but this is actually -- she lives it.
KAYE: Yes. Her story really is incredible. Sanjay, thank you.
GUPTA: Thank you.
KAYE: And to see the rest of Diana's story and never-before-seen video of the moment Diana actually decided to get out of the water, be sure to tune in Saturday night, 8:00 p.m. and again at 11:00 p.m. Eastern time for Sanjay's special on her dream.
Well, the Emmys are this weekend and the spotlight is shining bright on this year's host. We will find out all about her. We will go live to L.A. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: We're in the final countdown to the Emmys happening this weekend in L.A. Aside the red carpet fashions and the big names up for awards, the spotlight is also on this year's host.
"SHOWBIZ TONIGHT"'s Kareen Wynter joins me now from Los Angeles.
So, Kareen, what's the buzz surrounding the host, Jane Lynch?
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Randi.
Well, we all know and love Jane Lynch. She is a funny woman. She can sure can deliver those punch lines on her hit show "Glee." But will she be able to deliver Emmy night by pulling out a show- stopping performance as this year's host? Well, that's a big question.
And, Randi, she's probably feeling, oh, a little bit of pressure right now. What do you think? You see, Jane Lynch, she isn't just hosting. She is also nominated in the best supporting actress comedy category for "Glee." She won last year so the pressure is definitely on. How many times have we seen at award shows hosts fall flat?
Just ask Anne Hathaway and James Franco, who didn't exactly get great reviews for hosting the Oscars. Jane, she has a little advantage, though, here. She's getting some tips from a valuable source, Neil Patrick Harris. He hosted the Emmys, Randi, two years ago. We talked to him yesterday as he got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
And this was his advice for Jane.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEIL PATRICK HARRIS, ACTOR: You have to be welcoming and inclusive and also very adept and light on your feet and ready to change if the show is running long and ready to improvise if something funny happens.
But that's her bread and butter. I'm never a fan in award show situations of hosts heckling audience members. So, that one -- I would discourage her from that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WYNTER: You heard it there from Neil. Don't jab the audience. That last part might be a little dig at Ricky Gervais, who got mixed notices for holding the Golden Globes last January. Remember that? Some people thought Ricky, he was just a little too insulting to Hollywood stars.
You may remember that he zinged everyone from Charlie Sheen to Johnny Depp. So, Randi, we will see if Jane Lynch goes there Sunday night. I kind of want her to, just to mix things up, make the show a little exciting.
KAYE: Yes. Well, you can't blame them. I'm sure they're under a lot of pressure up there. It's probably scary, even though this is what they do for a living.
(CROSSTALK)
WYNTER: It's frightening. KAYE: Yes. I want to ask you just very quickly about the all- important best drama series. What can we expect there, do you think?
WYNTER: Right.
OK. So the big story is "Mad Men." Will it win the fourth, fourth time in a row? That would be an amazing achievement. "Modern Family" is trying to repeat as best comedy.
Talk about an exciting time, Randi, but absolutely nerve-racking as you mentioned for all those stars out there hoping to win that coveted trophy. Big night on Sunday.
KAYE: Yes, it certainly is. Kareen Wynter, thank you. We will be watching.
Coming up, Jon Huntsman picks up a big endorsement for president. Your political update is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: And let's talk politics now with our friend Candy Crowley.
Candy, lots to talk about, but let's start with this endorsement for Jon Huntsman.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jon Huntsman got an endorsement from former Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge, who also served as homeland security secretary.
In many ways, this is not a surprising endorsement. Huntsman and the former Pennsylvania Governor Ridge both come from the same wing of the Republican Party. They're more moderate. This has been basically a big part of Huntsman's failure to get real traction in this primary race.
Perhaps it will help Huntsman to have Ridge's endorsement in the New Hampshire primary, which, by the way, Huntsman says that he can just feel that he will win the New Hampshire primary. We're talking a long way from now, but Huntsman does continue to be sort of at the bottom rung here in the presidential sweepstakes. But Tom Ridge, well-respected a man on both foreign and domestic policy and former governor of Pennsylvania, endorsing Jon Huntsman today.
KAYE: And, Candy, also another big story is the president getting a little bit of defense I guess on his poll numbers from a friend.
CROWLEY: Yes. David Axelrod, who is top adviser to the reelection campaign for President Obama, is reading the same newspaper stories the rest of us are and listening to the same commentary on TV saying that Democrats are afraid that they're looking at a one-term president.
In a memo to Sunday show producers, which I think is interesting, Axelrod said, listen, "Despite what you hear in elite commentary," which is the Democrats' way of what Republicans calm the "lamestream" media -- Democrats call us elite commentary -- "Despite what you hear in elite commentary, the president's support among base voters and in key demographic groups has stayed strong."
He cites 81 percent of the Democrats, Democratic voters saying they still support the president. But you and I know that it's the indies, the independent voters, that sway elections. And right now the president has a lot of work to do to catch up and even break even with independent voters, who have left him in droves.
Axelrod object, also saying, listen, the poll numbers for Republicans are very low as well on Capitol Hill. Also true, but they are running in their districts, not nationwide, and these are nationwide polls.
And he also notes that there is no Republican to put up and compare against President Obama at this point because the primary season is under way -- so also a fair point.
What the Obama campaign expects is that, come September, people will be able to see two very different visions of America, and they are counting that the American people who are now angry with the president he about the economy will take a look at what Republicans have to offer, and reject that.
KAYE: Candy Crowley, nice to see you. Candy, thank you.
CROWLEY: Good to see you.
