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Conrad Murray On Trial; Obama's West Coast Tour; New Government Shutdown Crisis; Perry Stumbles In Straw Polls; Policeman Pleas "Not Guilty"
Aired September 26, 2011 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: You might be able to tell I'm in Los Angeles for the long-awaited trial of Conrad Murray, the doctor who was giving Michael Jackson an I.V. anesthetic to help him sleep. More than two years after Jackson went into fatal cardiac arrest, a jury is now in place and opening statements are less than 24 hours away. Jackson's in-house physician is charged with one count of involuntary manslaughter and could face up to four years in prison if convicted. We will have much more on the case in just a moment.
But first, I want to catch you up on some other headlines of the day. President Obama continues his west coast tour talking about jobs and the economy, and laying the groundwork for his re-election campaign. After a pair of fund-raising events in Seattle, Washington yesterday, he is making stops in California today. The president is scheduled to hold a town hall meeting in Mountain View shortly and we'll bring you live coverage.
Chief White House correspondent Jessica Yellin standing by in Mountain View. Hi there, Jessica. So, who's going to be asking questions at this town hall today?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You have there about 250 people in the audience and they are all selected by LinkedIn. We're told that they are either LinkedIn employees or members of LinkedIn who submitted questions and all those questions were chosen by LinkedIn itself. Some of them will be asked by audience members and some of them will be asked by the CEO of LinkedIn who will be there with the president.
KAYE: And Jessica, we know that obviously Mr. Obama, he relied quite a bit on social media and turned to social media quite a bit in 2008. I mean, is this a sign do you think that he's planning to do the same thing for 2012?
YELLIN: Absolutely. I mean, that's one of the tricks of campaigning these days. He'll be doing it but the difference is this time around so will the other guys. So, he doesn't necessarily have the only advantage -- he has an advantage but not the only one. The other piece of it is fund-raising. And as you mentioned, he had four fund-raisers yesterday. He told people to shake off the doldrums, don't give up, they have to stand up and fight.
A Democratic source tell me that the campaign manager has been telling their top fund-raisers to expect that this quarter they'll raise $55 million and they're on his west coast swing trying to gen up -- get up as much money as they can trying to make up for the summer when it was very hard for them to raise money during those debt negotiations, both because the president was stuck in Washington, D.C., couldn't go out and hit the road and raise money, and also people are kind of dispirited by the tone in Washington. I'm told by lots of Democratic sources, that sort of turned around and Democrat -- the big donors are starting to give again -- Randi.
KAYE: And what does his schedule look like after the town hall?
YELLIN: From here, he goes down to where you are. First, he'll go to La Jolla which is a wealthy area outside San Diego, a little south of you. Then he'll come up to Los Angeles for a total of three fund-raisers. And tomorrow he heads to Denver where he'll have an event at a high school to push part of the jobs act where he's talking about the importance of refurbishing schools, a two for both that you can refurbish schools an also put people to work in his jobs act. So, this is a big double push with pass this bill now, I bet you'll hear him say that, and then also raising those big bucks. Randi, back to you.
KAYE: All right. Jessica Yellin in Mountain View, California. Jessica, thank you.
Back in Washington, you have another government shutdown crisis that's looming. CNN will bring you in-depth coverage all week on that. Congress has until Friday, the end of the current fiscal year, to avert the shutdown with new funding legislation, but a fight over increased funding for federal disaster relief is holding that measure up. House Republicans agree that disaster relief funding must be increased but they say the increase should be offset by cuts in alternative energy programs. Senate Democrats oppose those offsets. The Senate may vote on the Democratic plan later today.
There is new uncertainty surrounding the Republican presidential race following a pair of weekend straw poll votes. Front-runner Rick Perry came in a distant second in both Michigan and Florida. Mitt Romney won the Michigan straw poll. That's not particularly shocking since Romney was born in Michigan and his father was a Michigan governor. The big surprise was in Florida where underdog Herman Cain pulled off a stunning upset. Cain got 37 percent of the vote in the presidency five straw poll. Perry got only 15 percent. We'll talk it over in our "Fair Game" segment next hour.
One of two Fullerton, California police officers charged with beating a homeless man to death entered a not guilty plea today. Manuel Ramos is charged with second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in connection with the July 5th death of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas. We've been following this case here on the show. Prosecutors say the homeless man begged for his life as Ramos and another officer tasered (ph) him an beat him. The judge has scheduled a November 4th pretrial hearing for Ramos, that is the same day as a scheduled hearing for the other defendant, Corporal Jay Cininelli. Cininelli entered a not guilty plea last week.
Back now to the trial of Conrad Murray. He is the Houston cardiologist whom Michael Jackson hired back in 2009 to see him through a grueling 50-show farewell tour. Well tomorrow, prosecutors here in Los Angeles will tell a jury that Murray committed involuntary manslaughter by giving Michael Jackson a surgical anesthetic to treat insomnia. The defense will say Jackson was in shaky health to begin with and Murray did nothing criminal. My colleague, Ted Rowlands, sets the stage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. CONRAD MURRAY: Your honor, I am an innocent man.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The jury in the Conrad Murray manslaughter trial will have several questions to answer. One, did Dr. Murray give Michael Jackson a lethal dose of Propofol? Prosecutors say there's no doubt, Murray and his attorneys say there is no way.
ED CHERNOFF, ATTORNEY: There's no way that Dr. Murray would pump Michael Jackson full of Propofol sufficient for major surgery and walk out that room. That's not going to happen. That's not the doctor Dr. Murray is.
ROWLANDS: Murray claims the day Jackson died he only administered 25 milligrams of Propofol, far less than what was found in Jackson's body by the coroner.
How did it get in him?
CHERNOFF: Well, that's a good question, Ted. Do you have any idea how it got in him?
ROWLANDS: The defense is expected to argue that Jackson somehow gave himself the lethal dose. Could Michael Jackson have done it?
CHERNOFF: Is it possible for an individual to inject himself with a drug? Yes. Yes.
ROWLANDS: Before Jackson died he spent hours struggling to go to sleep, according to a time line Murray gave police. Murray says he gave Jackson five doses of three different drugs between 1:30 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. At 10:40 a.m. he says he gave Jackson the Propofol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via telephone): Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via telephone): No. Just the doctor, sir.
ROWLANDS: 911 was called at 12:21. Emergency responders will testify they believe Jackson was dead when they arrived. Another question jurors must answer is, was using Propofol an anesthetic for surgery as a sleep aid so reckless that Murray should be held responsible for Jackson's death?
(on camera): Doctor after doctor gets up and says well this should never be used outside a clinical setting, outside a hospital or a clinic. CHERNOFF: The fact that the circumstances may be unusual -- may be demonstrated to be unusual does not make it egregious. That alone does not make it egregious.
ROWLANDS: Murray's defense will argue Jackson was a drug addict and in horrible physical shape and that he was getting drugs from other doctors that Murray didn't know about. Prosecutors plan to argue that Jackson was in good shape and planned to show this clip from the documentary "This Is It" of Jackson rehearsing just days before he died.
So now, more than two years after Jackson's death, a Los Angeles jury will be presented with the case and ultimately decide whether or not Dr. Conrad Murray should be held responsible.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: He has been covering it since the beginning, "L.A. Times" crime reporter Andrew Blankstein joins me next about what you need to know about this bazaar and complicated trial, right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: The trial of the king of pop's former physician begins tomorrow at 11:45 a.m. Eastern, 8:45 Pacific here in Los Angeles. Dr. Conrad Murray is facing involuntary manslaughter charges. He's accused of giving Michael Jackson a fatal dose of this powerful sleeping medication, Propofol, in 2009. 12 jurors, seven men and five women, will report to court in addition to five alternates to decide the fate of the former physician. He could face up to four years in prison if found guilty.
Joining me now to discuss this, "Los Angeles Times" reporter Andrew Blankstein. Andrew, welcome. Thank you. You've covered this case for a couple years now. What do you think this is going to be like, this trial? Do you think it will be the same sort of circus we saw in the Casey Anthony case?
ANDREW BLANKSTEIN, REPORTER, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": I don't think so. One the primary reasons is we don't have a whodunit here. We really have a case that comes down to technical, medical and science evidence. And so, when that case is playing out, there's going to be a lot of esoteric discussions about that. We don't -- the characters that usually populate a whodunit type of trial, as we've had, whether it's the O.J. Simpson case or Robert Blake, a lot of that will be really taken up by these technical discussions.
KAYE: Can you imagine how difficult it must have been just to seat this jury? I mean, I would imagine that one challenges they had was finding anyone who didn't know Michael Jackson to some extent and the star that he was or was a fan of his. I mean, one person -- one juror I think even had met him.
BLANKSTEIN: That's right. And on top of it, they had already seated a jury before an then had the trial delayed. As you might imagine, this is somebody that transcends pop culture across generations. So, it was going to be very difficult to find somebody that didn't have some kind of knowledge. The trick was obviously in the jury selection is getting people who could make up their minds in an objective way based on the evidence.
KAYE: For anyone who isn't following this case as closely as we are -- I mean, if you think about what's really at stake here, what the prosecution has to prove is that Dr. Conrad Murray gave Michael Jackson this dose, this fatal dose, of Propofol. He's admitted -- we know that here at CNN that he's admitted to giving him Propofol within 24 hours of his death but how will they make that connection, right? That's the challenge.
BLANKSTEIN: That's the challenge. Obviously, the level of care is going to be first and foremost from the time that he was -- actually, from the time that the drugs were administered when he had trouble going to sleep, you know, 1:30 in the morning on the fateful night in question, all the way through when he's given the Propofol. And then, between that time and then he becomes stricken and then how did he deal with that? And there's questions, everything from the way CPR was administered, on the bed, one arm allegedly, and then working backwards.
KAYE: (INAUDIBLE) to administer CPR.
BLANKSTEIN: Exactly. A host of questions that come up during that entire time period, all that's going to come into play.
KAYE: And do you think they'll also be focusing on this gap in time where Michael Jackson apparently went into cardiac arrest, according to records, and when that call to 911 was made, which is at 12:22 Pacific time, there's like a 47-minute gap in there where we don't know what Dr. Conrad Murray was doing. Right?
BLANKSTEIN: That's right because you start from the premise that this kind of medicine should not be administered to somebody in a setting at home, it should be in a medical setting. So, you start there and then you say, well, how carefully did Dr. Murray monitor Michael Jackson during the entirety of that period. And looking at that 47-minute gap, that's what prosecutors are going to seize on, just to add to begin that premise that he should have never been administering it in that kind of setting to begin with.
KAYE: So, for Conrad Murray, what will the defense argue do you think? How are they going to go at this?
BLANKSTEIN: I think they're going to -- if the past is pro log, they're going to go back to this idea that Michael Jackson had wanted the Propofol and that Dr. Murray was trying to wean him of it and that the question was during the period -- as they put it, five-minute gap, did he administer -- give Propofol to himself beyond the 25 milligrams that Dr. Murray says that he administered.
KAYE: They'll (INAUDIBLE) that maybe he took more for himself when the doctor left the room. BLANKSTEIN: That he had to have this stuff and that he took it himself and took it upon himself to administer it.
KAYE: Well, I know we'll both be busy probably for the next, what, five, six weeks or so.
BLANKSTEIN: Right.
KAYE: However long this trial is expected to last.
BLANKSTEIN: Yes.
KAYE: All right, Andrew Blankstein from the "L.A. Times," appreciate your time. Thank you very much. So nice to have you on the show.
BLANKSTEIN: Thank you so much, Randi.
KAYE: Opening statements do begin tomorrow at 11:45 a.m. Eastern. Make sure to tune in to CNN for live coverage and updates as well.
Coming up, organ donation. It can be a controversial topic. And a new proposal is stirring up debate even more. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: One minute, two minutes, just how long should doctors wait before removing a heart from a dead person for a transplant in another human? It is the key question at the center of controversial new rules proposed by the United Network for Organ Sharing. That's the group that manages organ donations through a contract with the federal government. Each year, about 6,000 Americans die waiting for donated organs. "The Washington Post" reports that under the new rules, surgeons would no longer have to wait at least two minutes to be sure the heart doesn't suddenly start beating again. The group also wants to remove a specific ban on using organs from a patient until after doctors and family members have agreed to stop all life support.
We're focusing on this highly important and emotional topic because we believe it's actually been under covered by the media. So joining us to talk about the proposed changes, Michael Grodin, professor of health law, bioethics and human rights at Boston University's School of Health. Charles Alexander is also going to be with us.
Charles, why don't I ask you. Why are the proposed new rules need?
CHARLES ALEXANDER, FORMER PRES. UNITED NETWORK FOR ORGAN SHARING: (INAUDIBLE) are not new. We are just taking the opportunity to make sure that all institutions, transplant hospitals and organ recovery programs in this country are in line and in lock step with their policies to ensure the full most transparency of the system of organ and tissue donation.
KAYE: I should mention that Charles is the past president of the United Network for Organ Sharing.
Michael, let me go to you. What is your biggest concern about these proposed changes?
MICHAEL GRODIN, BOSTON UNIV. SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: First of all, I'm a physician as well. I'm concerned about the open and explicit and verifiable nature of this complicated, complicated protocol. The issue is that by eliminated some kind of uniformity, each transplant unit will have its own methodology for assessing death. And, of course, the real concern is separating the line between the patient who's dying and declaring death and taking the organs.
The standard way of doing this is with somebody who's dead by brain criteria and then -- so they're dead. And then the discussion of organ transplantation takes effect. This is a whole process where the person is not dead but is being allowed to die and then the organs are taken. And the donation is discussed and orchestrated before the death. There's a question of premature irreversibility, premature declaration of death and the organ preservation procedures are started, actually, before the people actually dies. Anticoagulats are given. So you're using the person as a means to an end I think prematurely and I think there' confusion and blurring of the distinction between death and organ transplantation that will not only cause fear but may actually cause not only problems for individual donors, but actually fewer donations in the long run.
KAYE: If I'm hearing you correctly, Michael, it sounds like you seem to be painting a picture of these physicians sort of hovering over these patients waiting for their organs. Is that right?
GRODIN: That's correct. And having been a clinician for 34 years, I've actually seen that situation where the organ donor people deal with obviously the people who are in need of organs, which are, of course, is a very tragic situation. But I would rather see fewer transplants done in absolute trust in the system rather than getting one more organ transplant.
KAYE: And, Charles, what's your response to this notion by Michael that creating this sort of culture of vulture like doctors?
ALEXANDER: Well, I mean I think actually the points are quite interesting because really what we are setting out to do is create a separation between the organ and tissue recovery team so the physician's actually responsible for transplants and those who declare death in the hospital. That's the entire goal behind this hospital. The organ donor folks should not be prescribing how we determine death. That should be done by critical care physicians and nurses. And that's exactly what this policy is suggesting, that national standards such as the Society of Critical Care Medicine and the Institute of Medicine who have made firm recommendations on how that process should take place should be followed. That's exactly what we're after with these policy changes.
GRODIN: And there should be -- there should be uniformity amongst all the --
KAYE: Michael, would you like to respond?
GRODIN: Yes. Then there should be uniformity amongst all the various institutions that are carrying out organ transplantation. It shouldn't be left up to each individual unit to decide how it's going to do it.
ALEXANDER: And, again, I think that's exactly the intent behind this policy because if we, as the organ donor people, begin prescribing how that happens, then we lose a layer of transparency that is imperative to this process. We are in the field of medical (INAUDIBLE).
GRODIN: Just the opposite.
ALEXANDER: If I could finish.
GRODIN: (INAUDIBLE).
ALEXANDER: We are in the field of public trust --
KAYE: Michael, let him -- let him finishing, Michael.
ALEXANDER: And if, you know, if we do not create this transparency and allow for this public trust in the system, then we will have fewer transplants. And that would be disastrous to the more than 112,000 people waiting for a solid organ transplant.
GRODIN: Well, how is it that you justify --
KAYE: Michael, you have about 10 seconds to respond.
GRODIN: How is it that you justify starting organ preservation, putting in lines and giving anticoagulants and drugs before the person is dead? That's a clear blurring of the distinction of somebody caring for someone in their end of life versus preparing somebody for an organ donation.
ALEXANDER: Yes, I mean I think you're -- we're confusing --
KAYE: All right, Michael Grodin -- no, Charles, we're going to have to -- we're going to have to leave it there. I'm sorry.
Charles Alexander, Michael Grodin, appreciate your time. Certainly an interesting debate that we could go on -- go on and on with. But we are out of time on that one. Thank you both.
Straight ahead, baby turtles, rabbits, chicks, you name it. Thousands of live animals sold illegally on the streets of Los Angeles every day. But one man with the LAPD is trying to stop all of that. He'll join me next to talk about his undercover sting and how the city is fighting back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Pick any day to visit downtown L.A.'s fashion district and you'll find name brand knock-off jeans, shoes and handbags all at a bargain price. But you will also find something else -- live animals. Thousands of them, in fact, for sale. Some so young, so malnourished, they'll be dead in just days. Underground vendor who offer them don't care as much about the animals as they do making a quick buck. But a new city ordinance is cracking down on these illegal sales, not by targeting the vendors, but instead targeting the buyers.
Joining me now to discuss the crusader of sorts in this fight, Los Angeles Police Department Commander Andrew Smith.
Commander Smith, thank you so much for coming on the show to talk with me. We've done a few stories before. It's nice to see you involved in this. Tell me about this new city ordinance and how it works.
ANDREW SMITH, COMMANDING OFFICER, POLICE INFORMATION OFFICER LAPD: Well, the new city ordinance is basically going after the buyers. We have prior ordinances in the city and now in the state against the sellers, people that sell these illegally. But what we want to do is have something that we can use to stop people from actually buying these animals on the streets.
KAYE: And give me an idea of the animals that we're talking about. When people hear illegal animal sales on the streets of L.A., I don't know what they're imaging. So, set the record straight for us.
SMITH: Well, you know, if you can raise it in your backyard or capture it out in the woods and put it in a box and bring it to downtown L.A., they'll sell it. Anything from cats and dogs, of course, to baby chicks, baby rabbits, hamsters, gerbils, mice, fish, birds, snakes, tarantulas. I mean, literally, if you can catch it and put it in a box, someone will come down there and try and sell it.
KAYE: And so where do you think the vendors are getting these animals?
SMITH: A couple places. One, a lot of folks do backyard breeding. They'll get a couple of rabbits and they'll have these rabbits. They'll crank out rabbits every couple of weeks. They'll bring them down and sell them down there in one of the many areas in Los Angeles an those rabbits will be, you know, sold for $20 each. Many times they die immediately because they're too young to be taken from their mothers.
We've also heard stories of people trapping ducks out in the wetlands, either in the L.A. River or out by Venice Beach where they'll trap little ducklings, put them in a cage, bring them down and sell those right around Easter mostly.
KAYE: And how long has this been going on? And do you think you feel like you have a handle on it yet?
SMITH: Well, I've been around 23 years and it's been going on ever since I came on the job here in Los Angeles. You know what, I think this is just a small piece of the puzzle. We've got a lot of support from a lot of other folks. We've got the business improvement district down there that has their officers out helping us with enforcement. We've got private people that are -- from Voice for the Animals that are trying to help us out with it. I think this is just a small piece of the puzzle where we're trying to solve one little bit at a time. And this is just one more small step forward for us.
KAYE: I want to let our viewers know that on the streets of L.A. you've earned a bit of a nickname for yourself, Dr. Doolittle. So, give me an idea just very briefly what one of these stings that you're involved in looks like, when you go after these folks.
SMITH: Well, many times, you know, when people will see the police coming, they will just get up and take off and abandon all the animals that they have there.
What we do is we will drive down the street and when they abandon these animals, we will take them, pick them up, and bring them in. I always had boxes of rabbits and chickens and birds and fish in my office and I think that's where the Doolittle nickname came in. It's a little embarrassing actually.
(LAUGHTER)
KAYE: And where are those animals today? We're looking at a picture of you with the kittens, which is adorable. But what happens to all those animals once you take them off the street?
SMITH: Well, that's my living room. Those two kittens I rescued, they're at my house right now. But most of the animals, we turn over to animal services and they're real good about putting them up for adoption or giving them to animal rescue organizations.
We have got turtle rescue. We have got snake rescue organizations. We even have hummingbird organizations here in Los Angeles. So the private sector, the nonprofit sector, is doing a great job saving these animals and keeping them from certain death.
KAYE: Well, Commander, I hope you plan to keep those cats, because they look pretty darn happy in your lap in your living room. Well done. Thanks for the good work on the streets here. Appreciate that.
SMITH: Thanks a lot. Good to see you again.
KAYE: You, too.
Coming up, a college bake sale that discriminates to make a point. Some students are saying it is over the top. We have that story in just 90 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: It is about half past the hour. Here's a look at the stories that you may have missed.
Thirty minutes from now in Mountain View, California, President Obama will hold a town hall at the headquarters of the networking Web site LinkedIn. The president is expected to discuss job creation and the economy. The live audience will be made up of LinkedIn employees an members from across the nation. And they will have a chance to ask questions. Stay with us for live coverage at the top of the hour.
In Washington, five days and counting until a possible government shutdown. The Senate is expected to vote today on a spending bill to keep the government operating through mid-November. One issue Democrats and Republicans are divided on is how to fund FEMA for emergency disaster relief. The Senate measure includes critical disaster funning for states hit hard by hurricanes and wildfires, but Republicans won't support the measure without offsetting spending cuts from clean energy programs.
Senators rejected a House-passed bill that included offsetting cuts. Republican-led House and Democratic-led Senate must agree on a spending plan by Friday, when the current fiscal year ends.
A huge storm ripped through Cleveland, Mississippi, late Sunday. The powerful winds ripped the roof off two department stores and damaged homes in a nearby subdivision. One official with the fire department said the storm knocked out the county's communication network and the local hospital stopped taking patients. Officials on the ground are trying to determine if the damage was caused by a tornado or straight-line winds. No injuries reported.
In California, a bake sale at U.C. Berkeley is causing, oh, quite a ruckus on the campus. Campus Republicans plan to charge people according to their race. The sale is meant to protest a bill that would allow the consideration of race and gender in student admissions.
Let's take a look at how much you would actually pay for pastries, if you're white, $2, if you're Asian, $1.50, Latinos, $1, and 75 cents for African-Americans and 25 cents more Native Americans. Women get a 25-cent discount. And just in half-an-hour, you will hear from the group and why they still plan on holding the bake sale tomorrow amid growing opposition.
The first woman from Africa to win the Nobel Peace Prize died today. Kenyan Wangari Maathai lost a battle with cancer. She won the Peace Prize in 2004. She founded the Green Belt Movement more than 30 years ago which is credited with planting more than 40 million trees and she worked for human rights and the empowerment of women and Africa's most impoverished people.
In 2005, she was honored by "TIME" magazine as one of the most 100 most influence people in the world. And "Forbes" listed her as one of the 100 most powerful women in the world. Maathai was 71.
Herman Cain riding high in Florida. Is his big win a vote of confidence or just a slap in the face of the front-runners? It is all fair game and it's game.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE") ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: I believe all 10-year-old girls should be vaccinated for HPV, so they can enter into meaningful sexual relationships.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Oh, try again. Rick Perry consistent -- I believe Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. I believe we need to build a fence to keep the illegals out. However, should any illegals get through and have children here, I think we should open our hearts and pay for their education.
(BOOING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: This is the time in the show when we go beyond partisan talking points to the heart of the political debate and when it comes to political satire, everyone is fair game. That clip you were just watching was from "Saturday Night Live" taking aim at Rick Perry. Here's another.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: If you order it, pizza will come.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Pizza will come. Oh, pizza will most definitely come. And if you vote for me, America, I promise you that I will deliver.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Once again, Herman Cain has received wild applause.
Mr. Cain, please know that will not translate into actual votes.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I am aware.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That's usually true, but this time those kinds of speeches really did mean votes for the real Herman Cain. Take a look. Cain won this weekend's Florida straw poll, way ahead of Rick Perry and way ahead of Mitt Romney. Here's how Cain described the victory on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel great but I feel even greater because the voice of the people is bigger than the voice of the media, with all due respect.
And here's the second thing. Message is more powerful than money. Both of my contenders that came in second and third, they spent a considerable amount of money to try to influence that outcome, the outcome of that vote. I rented a bus, traveled all over the state, did some stops, sharing my message of commonsense solutions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Now, Cain also said now his campaign can't be ignored.
So, let me bring in my guest. Ed Espinoza is a Democratic political consultant. Christopher Metzler is associate dean of Georgetown University's School of Continuing Studies.
I know you're both getting a pretty good cackle at those "Saturday Night Live" skits.
But let's talk seriously here about this, can we?
Ed, let me start with you. Should we take this straw poll in Florida seriously and Herman Cain's big win there?
ED ESPINOZA, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: We should take the straw poll seriously, but I don't know if we should take Cain seriously.
What we look at here is Michele Bachmann being the flavor of the month in August, Rick Perry the same thing in September. Maybe it will be Herman Cain in October. The real story here is that the thread you see going in the Republican primaries is anyone but Romney. It's not good news for the guy who's been in the race longer than anybody else.
KAYE: Christopher, what do you think? Does this straw poll in Florida count much?
CHRISTOPHER METZLER, ASSOCIATE DEAN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY'S SCHOOL OF CONTINUING STUDIES: Yes. Well, there are two things.
I think the lesson for Herman Cain in Florida is winning one straw poll does not a meat lover's pizza make.
(LAUGHTER)
METZLER: I think this is the situation relevant to Cain here.
And so here's the problem. I think -- I don't think that it is a matter of the flavor of the month. I think there are two things. One, I think the message was clear for Rick Perry. Get your debating skills together. And, two, unfortunately for Cain, he's running for vice president, but I think that Marco Rubio's job. Sorry.
KAYE: But you did mention a message. Is there a message here and what do you think Rick Perry and maybe even Mitt Romney should take away from this, Ed?
(CROSSTALK)
METZLER: Well, I think there are a couple of things. As it relates to Mitt Romney in particular, I don't think it is the anybody-but-Romney party. I don't think that's really it. I just think fundamentally Republicans have a problem with Romney. And so Perry is, despite what people have to say about him, I think, an excellent candidate.
The problem, of course, is he now is coming out with this message that debates don't matter. Well, actually they do. So the message is, if you want to continue in the front-runner status, what you have got to be able to do is you have to get the debating skills together. And that's the problem.
I mean, he flubbed one of the easiest lines ever. And so as a result of that, I think he is going to now move back and I think you will see a different Rick Perry in the next debate.
KAYE: Let me ask you guys about this other topic that I want to cover today, Ed, this one to you.
I want to ask you about Chris Christie. This is a guy who has said, no, no, no, I'm not going, I'm not going to go for this, I'm not going to run for president. And now it seems like maybe the door is a little bit open. He's at this GOP fund-raiser in Missouri today.
Ed, what do you think?
ESPINOZA: Well, and he's reiterated that he's not going to run as recently as this weekend.
This is the problem that Chris Christie has got, is that he's got to go through the early primary states, mainly Iowa. Now, I have worked presidential primaries in Iowa and they're very difficult. The caucus format requires lots of planning, months, sometimes years. He doesn't have a grassroots organization right now.
He's got to put one together in time, because if you enter into one of those caucuses with 14 percent, you don't reach the 15 percent viability threshold, which means you may as well walk in with zero percent. The only way to get past that 15 percent threshold in the room is with a strong ground game and good staff. Right now, he's got neither.
KAYE: Christopher, very quickly, is there an opening for Christie here?
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: What does he bring that maybe Perry or Romney doesn't?
METZLER: Well, I think one of the things that he brings is a personality. And in this particular case, he's got a very big personality.
He's a very energizing campaigner and I think on the Republican side that's what we are looking for. We're looking for someone who is able to do that and actually get things done. And so that's the situation. I think the situation as far as Chris Christie's concerned, there's still an opportunity. And, by the way, Sarah Palin isn't running, so don't even ask me about that.
KAYE: Oh, I don't know about that.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: We will see.
(LAUGHTER)
KAYE: Thank you both. Ed Espinoza, Christopher Metzler, great having you both on. Thank you.
METZLER: Thanks. Take care.
ESPINOZA: Good to be here.
KAYE: Coming up: another deadly attack on the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan. Who carried it out and what's wrong with security in Kabul? We will have a live report for you coming up.
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KAYE: It has happened again, an attack on the U.S. embassy in Kabul. An Afghan employee of the embassy opened fire in a CIA annex last night, killing one American, wounding at least one other person. The gunman was killed by security personnel. It is the latest in several recent high-profile attacks in the Afghan capital.
Nick Paton Walsh is monitoring developments and joins us by phone from Abu Dhabi. Nick, can you tell us what's the latest that you've been able to gather on this shooting?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): What we're hearing at the moment is that the Afghan employee at the embassy actually worked in that particular annex. So, it is not exactly clear what role he fulfilled, and the investigators are trying to work out how it was he managed to get a hold of the weapon and quite what his motivation was. Was this an argument between employees of the annex, between the Americans he killed? And so the American he killed and other people he worked with? Or is this some sort of longer-term, more thought-out insurgent plot?
What's interesting at this point is that the Taliban nor any other militant network has claimed this as their act or claimed responsibility for it. Also, it is clear that certainly U.S. officials at this point don't have any clear evidence pointing towards that, but still the psychological impact is there. One of the most secure parts of Kabul supposedly held down by the Americans that were supposed to be invulnerable has had another violent act perpetrated in it.
KAYE: So, what's this attack and the others really say, then, about security? I mean, if these continue to happen, what needs to happen there in terms of security? WALSH: I think it is hard, really. Kabul, they're trying to hand over security there more and more to Afghan security forces. NATO trying to take a back seat at this point. They're not going to want to stand forward and say I need to run the capital, which is supposed to be, frankly, the American stronghold in Afghanistan as they try to construct a timetable for Afghan security forces taking over security in the entire country.
What this does say, is that you might see the insurgents hand in there, if later proven, what this might suggest they are trying to win this war of perception, to try and tell Afghans that they can attack where they wish. They have a reach further than that which NATO would like to accept they have.
So, it is a complicated battle of perception here. But attacks like this do suggest the insurgency is far from beaten as some people in NATO would like you to think. Randi?
KAYE: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much for the update there from Abu Dhabi.
And checking now our top stories. The women of Saudi Arabia are celebrating today. They've been granted the right to vote for the first time ever. The government says women will be able to both vote and run in local elections in 2015.
With U.S. forces due to pull out of Iraq at the end of the year, "The Huffington Post" says the Defense Department is handing over military equipment to the Iraqis that cost American taxpayers billions of dollars. Giveaways included are huge military bases and numerous weapons systems. "The Huffington Post" says the main reason -- to save the cost of shipping the equipment home.
Syria's foreign minister is peeking at the U.N. general assembly today. Back at home, more anti-government unrest spilling into the streets. Activists says tanks have cut off parts of the city of Haams, a hotbed of protest against the government.
A she-devil. That's what one lawyer called Amanda Knox today. The latest on her murder trial appeal in Italy, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: In Italy, Amanda Knox's appeal trial is nearing its climax. Two years ago, the American college student was convicted of killing her roommate, Meredith Kercher, and sentenced to 26 years in prison. Her lawyers are trying to get the conviction overturned, but Italian prosecutors are arguing for an even longer sentence: life in prison.
Today, the court heard from the lawyer for Kercher's family, and a lawyer for a former suspect in the case who called Knox a "she- devil."
Senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is live in Perugia, Italy for us. Matthew, tell us a little about what happened today. What did the Kercher family lawyer have to say?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's been a very bruising day in court for Amanda Knox. The Kercher family lawyer - of course, Meredith Kercher, the murder victim -- standing up in court, showing very grisly, gruesome pictures again of Meredith Kercher's body. Her throat slit after what prosecutors had argued all along was a sex game that went wrong in which they say Amanda Knox and her then-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, were taking part as well as one other person who's now in jail. So very damaging, very emotional pleas made by the Kercher lawyer to the jury to uphold the conviction of Amanda Knox.
You mentioned the other lawyer as well. He was representing a guy called Patrick Lamumba, who's a bar owner here in Perugia, who was falsely accused early on in this whole situation by Amanda Knox in a witness statement she made. He's suing her for financial damages. And his lawyer was absolutely sticking the boot, as we say in England. He was really lambasting Amanda Knox's character, saying he was an enchanting witch, she was a she-devil. That her character was half- angelic, half-satanic. So, using all these very emotive phrases to try and convince that jury to uphold the murder conviction against her. Randi?
KAYE: Wow. Those are some pretty strong words.
Let's talk about the schedule here. I mean, in terms of when we might know if she's going to be released. How is this going to work?
CHANCE: Well, I think what we're going to be seeing over the next few days is the summing up by the defense. So Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, her former boyfriend. And so, the tone of these hearings is going to change somewhat. We're going to hear their side of the story.
The rebuttals come on Friday and Saturday. Then Sunday is a day off. On Monday morning we're expecting to hear from the judge, his decision -- the jury's decision as well about whether Amanda Knox is going to stay behind bars or whether she's going to be set free.
KAYE: Matthew Chance in Perugia, Italy for us. Matthew, thank you very much.
President Obama versus the Republican frontrunners. We have some new poll numbers just out showing how the president stacks up. Your political update is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Time now to check in with our friend Mark Preston, see what's happening in the world of politics. Mark, I understand there are some new poll numbers in the GOP field.
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: There sure are, Randi. There's been a lot of talk that Rick Perry has been stumbling, and he's going to be hurt because of that, whether it be Social Security or his stance on immigration. But this new CNN/ORCpoll tells a different story. In fact, let's look at these numbers, Randi
It shows he maintains a seven-point lead over Mitt Romney in this new poll. Now, I do need to point out that that is within the margin of error. But still, it does show us that Rick Perry still has standing power, even when he's faced with adversity.
A couple other interesting numbers out of this. Newt Gingrich is at 10 percent. And perhaps that's because he's performed pretty well in some cases in these debates. And then if we just flip and we see that right there. We see that Michele Bachmann has tumbled all the way to four percent. So, bad news for Michele Bachmann.
And someone like Jon Huntsman we see at one percent. So, not good news for them; pretty good news for Rick Perry.
KAYE: And what kind of news do you have in terms of how they stack up against President Obama, depending on who of course, plays that role?
PRESTON: Let's just look at the top two. Let's look at Rick Perry and Mitt Romney. Let's look at Romney numbers first. Just in a head-to-head match-up right now, this hypothetical match-up, it shows that President Obama only has a one-point lead over Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney has been very much running a general election campaign, even though he's running for the Republican presidential nomination. And it seems to be working for him.
Let's look at the hypothetical head-to-head match-up if it was Rick Perry against President Obama. President Obama holds a bigger lead over that, Randi. If you see, he has a five-point lead. So, we're often hearing that Mitt Romney is talking about being the more electable candidate. He'll look at this poll, and he'll say that, in fact, that is true.
But Rick Perry still holding strong. Of course, these numbers right now in these head-to-head match-ups, Randi, are all within the margin of error. So, not very good news for the president. Randi.
KAYE: Aren't you just sort of kind of tempted to see what those poll numbers would be -- President Obama against Chris Christie with all the talk that maybe he'll enter, maybe he won't?
PRESTON: Yes. It would certainly be interesting to see that. But I think Chris Christie is being very wise by staying out of the race, at least until this point, anyway. We'll see what happens, Randi.
KAYE: Yes, we certainly will. Mark Preston, nice to see you. Thank you.
