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People Verses Michael Jackson's Doctor; Model Airplane Terror Plot; Bad Cantaloupes Kill 13 People; Fullerton Officer Free On Bail; House Passes Spending Bill; Michael Jackson's Doctor On Trial; Defense Rests In Knox Appeal
Aired September 29, 2011 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye reporting live in Los Angeles today. We'd like to return you now to the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray where Alberto Alvarez, an assistant to Michael Jackson, is still on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID WALGREN, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT: Now, looking at the 100 milliliter Propofol bottle, does that appear -- by everything you can tell in the appearance of the bottle, does that appear to be the same bottle that you saw inside of that saline bag?
ALBERTO ALVAREZ, PERSONAL ASSISTANT: Yes, sir.
WALGREN: OK.
Going back then, let me ask you, do you see in this enlarged photograph that the saline bag -- do you see where it has a slit or a cut in the bag where I'm pointing in people's 28?
ALVAREZ: Yes, I can.
WALGREN: OK. Did you observe that on that day, June 25, 2009?
ALVAREZ: No, sir.
WALGREN: OK. And again, referencing your diagram where you had drawn an apparatus at the bottom of this saline bag, would that -- (inaudible) one moment. Can you see those two pictures, Mr. Alvarez?
ALVAREZ: Yes, sir.
WALGREN: The saline bag that you drew as reflected in people's 27 on the right here, you show the saline bag coming down and terminating, and then it appears there is an additional apparatus attached to it. Is that accurate?
ALVAREZ: Yes, sir.
WALGREN: Now, looking at the saline bag as reflected in people's 28, is the apparatus visible or would the apparatus have been, to your recollection, connected to this port? ALVAREZ: It is not visible, sir.
WALGREN: OK. So to be clear, people's 28, what I'm calling a port, you see this -- you understand to what I'm referring at the bottom of people's 28 as it is shown right now?
ALVAREZ: Yes.
WALGREN: OK. That will be reflected in people's 27 as this portion above --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: All right, you've been listening there to a bit of the testimony from Alberto Alvarez at the Conrad Murray trial. We'll continue to watch that trial throughout the program. Most people, as you can imagine, probably don't have a head of logistics, but Michael Jackson wasn't most people, of course. Day three of testimony in the manslaughter trial of Jackson's in-house doctor well under way as you've been seeing here on CNN with the aide who handled the details of Jackson's day to day life. The details of his untimely death and the actions of Dr. Conrad Murray on that chaotic day are the focus of the prosecution questioning. Here is more of Alberto Alvarez from just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALGREN: What happened when you first walked in to the room?
ALVAREZ: When I walked in to the room and I turned toward my right, I observed Mr. Conrad Murray giving chest compressions to Mr. Jackson.
WALGREN: OK. Sew proceeded into the room in front of you.
ALVAREZ: Yes.
WALGREN: And evidently had gone over to where Michael Jackson was located.
ALVAREZ: Correct.
WALGREN: And was giving compressions.
ALVAREZ: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: Just minutes later, Alvarez says Murray's attention actually turned from CPR to clean-up. He says Murray told him to gather up vials of medication.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALGREN: So, you held the bag open and he would -- just dropped the vials in there?
ALVAREZ: Yes, sir, he reached into the bag and drop the vials.
WALGREN: And did you then put that bag somewhere?
ALVAREZ: Yes. He proceeded to instruct me. He said, now place that bag in a brown bag. And there was a brown bag that was on the side of a chair on the floor.
WALGREN: OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: Yesterday's testimony was a wrenching account of Jackson's death as seen by his former top assistant and by his head of security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALGREN: And does this depict --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): You're looking at the bedroom where Michael Jackson took his last breath shown inside the courtroom. One of Jackson's security guards Faheem Muhammad had been called to the house when Jackson stopped breathing and described the scene for the jury.
WALGREN: And when you came around to the far side of the bed what was Conrad Murray doing?
FAHEEM MUHAMMAD, HEAD OF SECURITY DETAIL, MICHAEL JACKSON: He appeared to be administering CPR. He appeared very nervous. He was on his side. He was sweating.
WALGREN: At that time, did you see Michael Jackson's face and his full body?
MUHAMMAD: Yes.
WALGREN: And what did you observe about his face at that time?
MUHAMMAD: That his eyes were open and that his mouth was slightly open.
WALGREN: Did he appear to be dead?
MUHAMMAD: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Muhammad said, at one point Dr. Murray asked Jackson security guards if they knew how to revive someone.
WALGREN: Had Conrad Murray asked you and Alberto Alvarez if you knew CPR?
MUHAMMAD: Yes.
WALGREN: And did you see Alberto go over and assist Dr. Murray with CPR?
MUHAMMAD: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the time Faheem Muhammad had arrived, 91 had already been called, but 911 was not the first phone call Conrad Murray made when Jackson stopped breathing. In court, new insight into Murray's state of mind from Jackson's personal assistant, Michael Amir Williams. He painted a picture of a doctor on the edge.
On June 25, 2009, Williams received a frantic voice message from Murray which was played in court. That message was left after Michael Jackson had suffered cardiac arrest. Murray gave no indication of that on the message, only saying Jackson had, quote, "a bad reaction." Murray called Williams, not 911.
WALGREN: Were you asked to call 911?
MUHAMMAD: No, sir.
WALGREN: Did you, upon hearing that message, call Dr. Murray?
MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.
WALGREN: Did he ask you to call 911?
MUHAMMAD: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In court, Williams was also asked about Murray's strange behavior at the hospital as news spread that the king of pop was dead.
WALGREN: What, if anything, was the request of Conrad Murray?
MUHAMMAD: He said that there is some cream in Michael's room -- or house -- I believe room that he wouldn't want the world to know about and he requested that I or someone give him a ride back to the house.
WALGREN: Did you agree to take Conrad Murray back to the house?
MUHAMMAD: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Williams told the court he was so spooked by Murray's behavior he asked Jackson security to lock up the house and not allow Murray back inside. But defense attorney Ed Chernoff pointed out Williams waited months before sharing his concerns with authorities.
ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Mr. Williams, the very first time you told the police about Dr. Murray wanting to get some cream was on August 31, 2009. Correct?
MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.
CHERNOFF: This was over two months after Michael Jackson had had died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Williams told the jury he frequently saw oxygen tanks at Jackson's house. Oxygen is required by the FDA to be on hand when Propofol is being used in case the patient has to be resuscitated.
CHERNOFF: Can you describe what you personally saw in that regard?
MUHAMMAD: It was normal for oxygen tanks to be there and if they were there would bring him to the bottom of the stairs and the chef or the children would bring them up, but it was normal to see the oxygen tanks the last few months.
CHERNOFF: That would be the period of time that you knew Conrad Murray was coming on an almost nightly basis?
MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even with all those oxygen tanks, Michael Jackson never had a chance. As the defense says, he died so quickly, he never even closed his eyes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: And we'll get back to the people versus Conrad Murray in just a few moments with a former attorney for Michael Jackson himself, Tom Mesereau will join me live in our next segment, along with CNN's own Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That's at ten past the hour right here on CNN.
Some other big stories that we're following, developing right now. Let's take a look. A Massachusetts man is accused of planning to bomb the Capitol and Pentagon with model airplanes packed with plastic explosives. He was arrested after sharing the plan with FBI agents posing as Al Qaeda operatives. CNN's Brian Todd tells us was the only the first step in his alleged plot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Had he plans to bring two teams of people, at least six people, in to fire on these buildings while people evacuated them. Now, there's no indication on any of these documents or from federal officials separately of any other conspirators in this plot. But they say that he did plan on flying these planes into these buildings with explosives and then firing on people as they tried to evacuate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: : We will hear more from Brian next hour. The accused mastermind is a U.S. citizen with a degree in physics.
Food inspectors are fanning out today to make sure supermarkets have gotten rid of cantaloupes blamed for a deadly bacteria outbreak. Melons from a Colorado farm are contaminated with Listeria. The bacteria has killed 13 people and health officials say at least 72 people have become sick from eating tainted cantaloupes. The deaths and illnesses have been reported in 18 states from California to Maryland. The CBC says Listeria can cause fever, muscle aches, diarrhea, and other gastrointestinal systems. It can take three weeks for those symptoms to show up. Now in California, one of two Fullerton police officers charged in the alleged beating death of a mentally ill homeless man was released on $1 million bail today. Manuel Ramos left the Orange County jail shortly after midnight after family and friends raised sufficient funds to post the bail. Ramos is charged with second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in connection with the death of this man, a 37-year-old Kelly Thomas. Prosecutors say the homeless man begged for his life as Fullerton police tasered him and beat him. Another officer charged with involuntary manslaughter was released last week on $25,000 bail.
All this week, CNN is taking an in-depth look at why our government is so broken. Well, today a handful of U.S. house members passed a spending bill that will keep the government funded through next Tuesday when the full house returns from recess next week, it will take up a more comprehensive bill to keep the government running for seven more weeks. This is all part of a compromise reached in the Senate last week to avoid a government shutdown at the end of the fiscal year which happens to be tomorrow. Congress has been bickering over the funding for FEMA's disaster aid and managed to agree on the funding measure only after FEMA said it had enough money to make it through the end of the week.
Why did Dr. Conrad Murray wait so long to call for help the day Michael Jackson died and why didn't he tell paramedics on the scene everything that he knew? Especially everything about the drugs that Michael Jackson had taken. Those are just some of the questions in the trial today. We've got some insights on how the defense plans to sway the jury from our Sanjay Gupta. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: What did Dr. Conrad Murray do? What didn't he do and how did he act in the final frantic moments of Michael Jackson's life? That is what jurors will hear today in the trial from two paramedics who were there on scene. Jackson's chief of security, Faheem Muhammad, testified yesterday that when he arrived at the Jackson home, Dr. Murray asked if anyone knew CPR. Yes, a cardiologist asking if anyone else in the room knew CPR techniques. Muhammad also testified that two of Jackson's children, Paris and Prince, witnessed Murray trying to resuscitate their lifeless father.
Joining me now to talk about this case, former Jackson attorney, Tom Mesereau and Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Thank you both.
Tom, let me start with you. We heard from Alberto Alvarez this morning on the stand in court. He's an assistant to Michael Jackson. He testified that Dr. Murray told him to take the vials of medicine from Jackson's bedroom and put them in a bag, to get rid of them in a sense. Also to take the bag from the IV stand.
How damaging could that be? What does that say to you?
TOM MESEREAU, ATTORNEY: It's very damaging. It indicates consciousness of guilt. When you factor that with his not telling paramedics or police that he had given Propofol, when you add to that that he went to the hospital and never told people at the hospital that he gave him Propofol, and these are people trying to save Michael Jackson's life, they're trying to revive him, it all looks very damning for the defense.
KAYE: And, Sanjay, I want to bring you in here.
I mean a lot of what we heard yesterday in court was about what happened in the bedroom at the moment that Michael Jackson died. You've been able to get from your sources some information.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And I've talked to sources with the defense team who basically laid out a pretty specific description. They say that, you know, Dr. Murray did give Michael Jackson Propofol and they say he waited 10 minutes or greater -- now I'm quoting them now -- before he left the room.
They say he left the room at that point. But what they say next was quite striking. They seem to indicate that Michael Jackson was -- quote -- and again I'm quoting these sources -- said he was, quote, playing opossum. That he feigning sleep. He got up after this period of time when Dr. Murray was out of the room and took more pills and gave himself Propofol -- more Propofol, anyway. He'd already been given some.
And then Murray came back in the room later on and essentially found Michael Jackson looking deceased. They say that his eyes were open, his pupils were dilated. He did not look to be alive. That's, again, according to these sources. And that's, you know, that's quite striking to us, but that's how they're sort of putting it together in their own defense.
KAYE: Right.
Tom, let me turn to you on that because you and I were watching some of the testimony together just a few moments before we came on the air here and there was some talk of this condom catheter that Michael Jackson was wearing. Now, Sanjay is saying that the defense is going to try to say that he got up. What do you say about that? If he was wearing a condom catheter, how would that work?
MESEREAU: Well, I'm not a physician, but a condom catheter suggests to me that he's not going to get up and start doing things in secret behind his physician's back. A condom catheter suggests to me that he's out on the bed and that he's not going to be moving too far. It doesn't help the defense as far as I can see.
GUPTA: And I think both are correct. I mean, you know, the reason you put a catheter on like this is because you assume the person's not going to be able to get up and go to the bathroom.
KAYE: So what does that say to the defense strategy then?
GUPTA: Well, I think it says that -- it makes it very unlikely. But -- and this is, you know, the difficulty of these sorts of things, is that you could eventually get up and walk around with a catheter. People walk around with Foley catheters, for example. It's not what it's designed to do, obviously, but it is possible. Not likely, but possible.
KAYE: Tom, taking a look at the trial so far, how do you think the prosecution's doing? And what do you think the defense is going to need to do later on today after this?
MESEREAU: Well, I think both sides gave very good opening statements. I thought the prosecutor was clear and powerful. He explained the scientific and forensic aspects of the case in a very clear, understandable way. He explained the human aspects of case in a very powerful way. I thought the defense lawyer also gave a passionate opening statement and I thought he appeared very prepared and he's aggressively defending his client, which he's supposed to do.
Now, remember, the prosecution always has the advantage of going first, so they always look a lot better when they go first. However, this is a long distance run. You can't just gauge it in terms of innings or football quarters. Everything fits together somehow at the end. I think it's a strong prosecution case and I think the doctor is guilty.
KAYE: Let me ask you, Sanjay, about these oxygen tanks. That was another thing that has been talked about quite a bit in the testimony, that there was this regular shipment -- regular supply of oxygen tanks at Michael Jackson's home. Can you help us understand why they would need to be there and for what they would be used?
GUPTA: Well, I mean, the best I can put it together is that when people are just being given these types of medications, including the Propofol, including the sedatives, including the enzodiasapins (ph), which are the anti-anxiety medicines, one of the effects of these medications is they can slow down your breathing. That your diaphragm moves more slowly and, as a result, the person is not getting enough oxygen just from room air. So what happens in a situation like this is, either the patient gets a breathing tube, which is what happens in a hospital where medications like Propofol are typically administered, or they're given oxygen to sort of increase their oxygenation to try and offset some of the side effects of these medications.
I -- that's -- I mean, for a 50-year-old man who is otherwise, even by Dr. Murray himself, pronounced as healthy, I can't see any other reason why he would need oxygen, at least that much of it, on standby.
KAYE: Yes, it -- I mean and there was certainly a lot of it. I mean everybody who testified said it kept coming, and kept coming.
GUPTA: Right. And there were signs saying to make sure not to forget it.
KAYE: Right.
GUPTA: So they were really concerned about this.
KAYE: Right. Tom, one more to you. I want to ask you, because the defense is certainly trying to paint Michael Jackson as a drug addict. What -- why that strategy and how does that play with the jury, do you think?
MESEREAU: Well, there are a number of levels to that defense. First of all, they want to devalue Michael Jackson. They don't want the jury to feel as much sympathy for him because they're trying to claim he was addicted to medications. They also want to set the stage for trying to make their client look like a good Samaritan. That he was faced with an addict that he did his best to try and help him out during a difficult period and that, unfortunately, it didn't work. I think that's the painting they're trying to paint. It is what it is.
KAYE: Any final thoughts, Sanjay?
GUPTA: No, I mean, you know, that obviously there's got to be a lot into these various medications. One of the things that came up recently with a Demerol usage recently. And whether he was an addict or whether he was getting Demerol for relatively minor procedures by other doctors. I think that's another area where the defense is sort of portraying this, you know, whether it was Michael Jackson's own doing or doctors sort of enabling him, so to speak.
KAYE: Right.
GUPTA: And not just Murray, but others. I think you're going to hear more and more about that.
KAYE: Yes. All right, Sanjay Gupta, great to have you here and have your expertise.
GUPTA: Thanks. Yes, thank you.
KAYE: Thank you.
And Tom Mesereau, our thanks to you as well. Nice to have you on the program.
Up next, a country where every month hundreds of men, women and children are killed, raped or forced into slavery. It is our "Under Covered" story of the day. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Welcome back. Glad you're with us.
If you've been watching the news today, you might have heard a lot about the cantaloupe Listeria outbreak that's killed 13 people in 18 states, or Michael Jackson's death trial. But I'm willing to bet you haven't heard much about southern Sudan, where, in the last five years, 10,000 children and young adults were abducted into slavery, according to the non-profit Angels of East Africa. It is today's "Under Covered" story. We want you to know about it.
Southern Sudan is a north African country bordering Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Congo and the central African Republic. It's actually the world's newest country after gaining independent from Sudan on July 9th, but still poverty-stricken despite containing the majority of known Sudanese oil reserves.
Although the last civil war ended with a 2005 peace agreement, southern Sudan is still plagued by militant rebel groups and slave traders. One of the most infamous of these groups is the Lord's Resistance Army led by self-declared mystic and prophet Joseph Kony, who claims his insurgency, which began in 1986, is aimed at replacing Uganda's government with a democracy based on the Bible's Ten Commandments. The LRA is known for hacking off the lips or ears of victims. They kill and rape without remorse, leaving behind a scattered trail of missing children, looted villages and burned out huts. They replenish their ranks through abducting young men and boys. The New York-based advocacy group Human Rights Watch estimated in 2010 700 young men and boys were abducted in a single 18-month period. Other estimates reached the hundreds of thousands.
Coming up next hour, we will introduce to you to a man who's been nicknamed "the machine gun preacher." Yes, "the machine gun preacher." A gun-wielding ex-con who's dedicated his life to fighting the LRA and saving Sudanese children. He's also the subject of a new movie titled, appropriately, "The Machine Gun Preacher" starring Gerard Butler. I'll ask the preacher if he considers himself a missionary or mercenary for his tactics some do call extreme.
The defense in the Amanda Knox appeal trial has just wrapped up its closing arguments. We are live in Perugia, Italy, right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: In Italy, closing arguments have just wrapped up in the appeal trial of Amanda Knox. Lawyers for the American student and her former boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, are trying to convince a jury that their clients were wrongly convicted of murdering Knox's British roommate, Meredith Kercher, back in 2007. In 2009, Knox was sentenced to 26 years in prison for that murder, Sollecito got 25 years.
CNN's Paula Newton is following the trial in Perugia, Italy. She joins me now.
Paula, first, tell us what happened today in court. Bring us up-to- date.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An emotional day in court with the defense taking another crack at this, Randi. They were very passionate saying, look, Amanda Knox was crucified by the media and aided and abetted by a prosecution that they say made up a story about why and how Amanda Knox murdered Meredith Kercher.
And more to that, they tried to pick apart the evidence, saying, look, it was botched from the beginning from the police. They didn't know what they were doing. They contaminated any evidence that there was. And they continue to portray Amanda Knox as an innocent young woman from the United States, a mere baby, they said, who didn't know any Italian and was tricked into giving some sort of a confession with no lawyer present.
To add to all this, though, Randi, the defense knows that what they had to do was make sure that they pick apart the evidence primarily, but then also point out that there was no motive.
I want you to hear now from not only Amanda Knox's defense, but then her father. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CURT KNOX, FATHER OF AMANDA KNOX: I think the biggest thing is really the independent experts' report. I mean, that was something that we had asked for during the first trial, since there was such a discrepancy between the prosecution and the defense.
And with them coming back and essentially eliminating any of the physical evidence of Amanda and Raffaele in that room, under the prosecution's scenario, I think that's probably the biggest piece right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because it is a big mistake. There's a principle of law that you need evidence. There's no evidence here, so we're very comfortable that this will be accepted and recognized by the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: What's so interesting, Randi, is that really the evidence was there, but this time -- there wasn't any change in the evidence that was there. But this time the evidence pointed to some doubt.
They had those forensic experts that came in this time that weren't included in the last review that said, look, there isn't enough DNA evidence here to conclusively link Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend to this murder -- Randi.
KAYE: All right, I'm sure you will keep us up to speed on all of that.
Paul Steinhauser, nice to see you. Thank you very much.
STEINHAUSER: Thank you.
