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Michael Jackson Death Trial Continues; Wall Street Protests; Feds Foil Terror Plot Involving Model Planes; CNN Special Looks at Anthrax Scare of 2001; River in New Jersey Needs Dredging; Herman Cain Surges in GOP Voter Polls

Aired September 29, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's begin in Los Angeles. We're learning more and more about those chaotic moments when Michael Jackson died. They're all being relived today in this Los Angeles courtroom. The Jackson employee who picked up the phone called 911, has been testifying since early this morning. His name is Alberto Alvarez. He says Dr. Conrad Murray told him to gather up all these different drug vials around Jackson's bed before asking Alvarez to call for help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO ALVAREZ, MICHAEL JACKSON'S DIRECTOR OF LOGISTICS: I believed that Dr. Conrad Murray had the best intentions for Mr. Jackson, so I didn't question his authority at the time. I knew it was a medical emergency, so I proceeded to follow up on Mr. Conrad Murray's instructions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did you think you were -- what did you think these items were being packed up for, if anything?

ALVAREZ: I thought we were packing to getting ready to go to the hospital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to Los Angeles live. We have Ted Rowlands standing by just outside of the courtroom there. We also have our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta in L.A. as well.

But, Ted, I want to begin with you. First, though, allow me to set some of this up, because we saw Alberto Alvarez. He described Dr. Murray pushing down on Michael Jackson's chest with his left hand, telling Alvarez they needed an plan ambulance. As Alvarez reached in his pocket for his phone, he says two of Jackson's children came into the room. Watch this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Paris screamed out daddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you heard Paris scream out daddy, was she crying?

ALVAREZ: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you at that time escort the children out or indicate to them to go out of the room?

ALVAREZ: Yes, sir. Dr. Conrad Murray said, don't let them see their dad like this. Don't let them see their dad like this.

And I proceeded to turn around to the children and kind of ushered them out and said, kids, don't worry, we will take care of it, everything is going to be OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Also today in the courtroom, prosecutors played the call Alvarez made to 911.

Ted Rowlands, to you. I know being in the courtroom, you're looking at the Jackson family. How did they react to the news of Paris and her crying that day?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I could see LaToya Jackson. She's very close to me. And she dropped her head and looked down. And all along the line, every time the kids come up in any fashion, whether it's a photo or testimony regarding them, you can feel it. And you can feel it with everybody in the courtroom, because you just -- you're taken back there. It is so gripping, this testimony.

And when the kids come into the picture, it really changes it in an instant and becomes very emotional inside that courtroom.

BALDWIN: Sanjay Gupta, from a medical perspective, what do you make of Dr. Murray's actions, as I mentioned, pushing down on -- there we go -- pushing down on Michael Jackson's chest and then pulling the I.V. tube from his leg. Does that make sense to you?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a couple things that come to mind.

First of all, the way that the CPR was described to me, and keep in mind that he's a cardiologist. That's what I have heard. He's pushing down with his left hand only on the chest and he's doing it while Michael Jackson's still on the bed on a soft surface.

Two problems. First of all, there is a very standard CPR technique and anybody who has taken even the most basic training knows this, to actually use both hands and also you have to use the person on a hard surface. Otherwise you're not getting chest compressions.

So that was -- it was just -- it was surprising, it was ineffectual. And frankly, Brooke, it sounded like someone who was not trying to save the person in part because maybe they already thought that the person was not alive or what. I just don't know.

The other thing is, with regard to the sharing of information, pulling the I.V. out, one thing that we're always taught is you don't do anything like that -- first of all, you may need another I.V. in case medications needs to be given in a resuscitation. Why you would take an I.V. out again, just both those seem very illogical, and they don't make any medical sense.

BALDWIN: OK. So illogical from -- who apparently is a cardiologist.

Ted, what about those vials that Alvarez described he was told to gather up, shove in his bag? Do we even know what happened to those vials?

ROWLANDS: Yes, they turned up later after the police went back, the coroner investigators went back following Murray's interview with the police.

He told them, hey, my bags, my doctor bags are in the closet in Michael Jackson's room. So they were recovered and they are part of the evidence. The other thing that Alvarez said that he did was take down an I.V. bag and also put it away at Murray's instruction. And that too was recovered and shown in the courtroom today.

BALDWIN: Ted, I have one more for you, but, Sanjay, also Alvarez testified -- we learned this new detail -- he said that Michael Jackson was wearing a catheter. And I know at this time yesterday, you were talking about your defense sources and they said I think the phraseology was that Michael Jackson was playing possum, that that they believe got up while Murray was out of the room and injected himself with that fatal dose of Propofol.

If that was the case, Sanjay, would he be able to physically do that if he was wearing this catheter?

GUPTA: Well, as I have been saying a lot to a lot of these questions, Brooke is possible, but not likely.

You know, a lot of these things are so strange that you really have to sit down and think. I never heard of this before, so is the question, is it possible? Perhaps. But it's very unusual, very unlikely. I will say one thing about that. When someone has a catheter like this, part of the reason they have that is because of the anticipation that the person is not going to get up and they can't walk to the bathroom, which is why they get the catheter.

So you see the reason why. But it is possible that someone could in fact carry the bag as well as the tubing and walk somewhere. Patients do that sometimes in the hospitals. But, again, it's an unusual, unusual situation.

BALDWIN: Ted, I'm assuming that they're on lunch break this time again. What is coming up the rest of the afternoon inside that courtroom?

ROWLANDS: Well, Alvarez will be on the stand for a while because the defense is really going after him now in their cross-examination trying to disrupt his timeline and trying to prove to the jury that there is just no way that he could have collected all these vials before calling 911.

They're using phone records to do it. There's basically a minute-and- a-half to two minutes for him to escort the kids out and collect all the stuff and call 911. So they're chipping away at that. After Alvarez is finished, we expect to hear from Michael Jackson's personal chef, Kai Chase, and she will give us more testimony about those children because she really took over taking care of those kids from when Alvarez got them out of the room.

BALDWIN: All right, Ted Rowlands and Sanjay Gupta, my thanks to both of you. We will keep a close eye on what's happening inside that courtroom. And at any moment in time, we may dip back in live.

Gentlemen, my thanks to you.

Now this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Corporations should not run the government, so we're here to kind of get that out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Students, unemployed, middle class, upper class, we have seen a lot of different Americans showing up at these protests, these Occupy Wall Street protests the last couple of weeks. What keeps them going 12 days and counting? We will go live to the symbolic home of corporate America. That's next.

Also, take a look at this view. Whew. Certainly not what I get to look at out my office window, 555 feet off the ground. Hear from one of those engineers, those brazen engineers tasked with scaling the Washington Monument.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: For this job, fear of heights not allowed.

Engineers, four of them, rappelling down Washington Monument again today inspecting it for signs of damage from an earthquake that rattled the East Coast last month. Their structural check has given us some amazing new views. Take a look at how it looks some 500 feet from above the National Mall. There you see the Capitol Building at the opposite end.

This is what the civil engineering team sees as they check every single stone of this iconic landmark. Look at the view down. This is one member of the crew with harness getting lowered along the stone structure.

And National Park Service officials, they tell us the team actually did find some loose mortar, some grouting and some cracks when they were up there yesterday. They have completed the exam of the tiptop there of the monument and now they have to check all of the sides.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL LINE, SPOKESMAN, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE: The team also did a quick survey of the rest of the monument, but that quick survey was nothing more than a quick survey. They need to continue examining all of the stones at close range.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, we actually had a chance to speak with one of those engineers. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMA CARDINI, CIVIL ENGINEER: It's incredible, not only because of the actual history of the structure, but the area and being -- the view, and just knowing what you're doing and seeing what you're seeing after the earthquake.

We have the drawings from repair from 1999, so we're noticing right now we have only seen a few -- I have only seen a few extra cracks that weren't there in 1999. But we have only done a small portion of the structure at this point. So there's still a lot to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Park Service officials tell us it will take weeks to inspect the entire Washington Monument.

Coming up, we will take you live to the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, 12 days and counting, hundreds of folks staying right this. Why are they there? What's their message? Is there a leader? We will talk to Dr. Cornel -- Dr. West coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

Now this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ROBERT BENTLEY (R), ALABAMA: This law was never designed to hurt fellow human beings. As a physician, I would never ask a sick person if he or she was legal or illegal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The toughest immigration law in the land, a judge says parts of it cannot stand, but other parts can. We are going to walk you through what this means for people working, living or just passing through Alabama.

And then take a good, close look here. What do you see? We have all sort of marinated over this one today. This is not your average vacation snapshot, folks. When you hear where this photo was taken, it might -- it might give you goose bumps.

Plus, we will take you live to Wall Street, where the Occupy Wall Street protests continue. We are going to talk to Professor Cornel West on the other side of this quick commercial break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In New York, an investigation is being launched into a high- ranking police officer's use of pepper spray during these protests on Wall Street here, today day 13 of these protests.

This pepper spraying incident was captured on this video Saturday, posted online. Now New York police and the Manhattan prosecutor's office are announcing separate investigations into why pepper spray was used.

Now, these protests began almost two weeks ago now under this name Occupy Wall Street. And during that time, a clear goal, a clear message has yet to really surface from these myriad demonstrators, leaving many to ask, what does Occupy Wall Street want?

Cornel West is a professor at Princeton University, a supporter of Occupy Wall Street.

And, Professor West, I know it's loud. I will try to speak up for you. Before we talk about the demonstrators here, just a question for you. I know you have said you hope this protest sparks a democratic awakening.

Sir, an awakening of what exactly?

CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Yes, sister Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, can you hear me, Cornel?

WEST: Tell me when you're ready.

BALDWIN: I'm ready. We're live on TV.

(CROSSTALK)

WEST: I'm blessed to be here with my young brothers and sisters and older as well of all colors.

They are taking a stand for justice in the face of the greed of Wall Street. They're standing for the best of America. They're concerned about poor children, they're concerned about working people, they're concerned about peoples of color. And it is a sublime thing. There's a lot of love here. There's a whole lot of warmth here and to be able to be here with them is a blessing for me.

And think about it -- 100 of these precious brothers and sisters arrested, and not one person arrested given the criminal behavior of the market manipulation, the insider trading, the fraudulent activity of the Wall Street oligarchs. The best of America has always been the empowerment of those that we will call everyday people. That's why it is a blessing for me to be here. And just look at all these beautiful faces here in the face of Wall Street greed.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Cornel, let me just -- let me jump in. Why protest now? Why not three years ago at the collapse?

WEST: It's a wonderful question.

And you never know when the spirit is going to hit. You never know when a movement arises. And it's not a movement with one leadership or two leaders or three leaders. It is spontaneous and instantaneous coming from the hearts, minds and souls of people of all colors. And you just -- it's hard to know.

Rosa Parks, who knew? You just don't know. What is taking place is the U.S. fall in response to the Arab spring here, L.A., Boston, on to Atlanta, on to Dallas, on to Chicago, and other places.

BALDWIN: Cornel, you had mentioned a number of concerns among these different demonstrators. And that's maybe part of the issue and part of the criticism I have read about is, it lacks a coherent message. It lacks a leader. You see anti-Wall Street signs, get me job signs, anti-death penalty signs. A lot of people say they need one message.

WEST: Sister Brooke, my dear brother Howard Zinn, the late great Howard Zinn, used to say dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

When you're bearing witness to truth, bearing witness to justice, you're doing it in the name of something bigger than you, country as well as humanity. That's what kept this country free and democratic. That's the only thing that will keep this country free and democratic, this kind of witness bearing, bringing all people together with the love, with the justice, realizing justice is what love looks like in public.

That's what you're seeing here today.

BALDWIN: Cornel, I know this is day 13. And I have read hundreds of people have not left there, eating, sleep, staying there all to make a point. Have they gotten any kind of reaction from any of the executives, anyone from Wall Street?

WEST: Is she still asking a question?

BALDWIN: Cornel?

Did we lose him? We lost him, Cornel West there in the midst of the demonstrations along Wall Street for Occupy Wall Street, as I mentioned, day 13.

We will have Susan Candiotti there. She is covering the protests. She is going to bring us a live report coming up next hour. We can pick up right where Dr. West and I left off.

Meantime, this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENTLEY: It would not have been necessary to address this problem if the federal government would have done its job and enforced the laws dealing with this problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What parts, though, of the Alabama immigration law did a federal judge block. And what parts were left alone? We will explain coming up next.

And then do you remember how frightening it was in this country right after 9/11? Not only were we living in this new world post-terror attack, but there was also an anthrax scare. Remember that? Letters containing the deadly powder were mailed to the news media, members of Congress, others.

The question we're asking here at CNN is, could it happen again? Joe Johns investigates in this new CNN documentary. We will get a preview from Joe straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Is this law racist or is it simply enforcing federal immigration laws? Debate continues on Alabama's controversial new immigration law, even as parts of it are upheld by a federal judge.

But parts of House Bill 56 cannot be enforced until a legal hearing on some of the larger issues are resolved. Dozens of students, this is the University of Alabama, protesting after the ruling came down yesterday. The student newspaper there quoting the president of Students for a Democratic society is saying that the law is -- quote -- "hateful and racist."

But Alabama Governor Robert Bentley suggests that enforcing the law is even more important his Hippocratic oath as a physician.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENTLEY: This law was never designed to hurt fellow human beings. As a physician, I would never ask a sick person if he or she was legal or illegal.

But, as governor of this state, it is my sworn duty to uphold our laws and that's what I intend to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So let me run through this with you. These are the four sections of the law blocked by that federal judge, banning illegal immigrants from knowingly applying, soliciting or performing work, banning people from concealing, harboring or transporting illegal immigrants, prohibiting employers from taking state tax deduction for wages paid to an illegal immigrant, and the fourth, banning illegal immigrants from enrolling at Alabama colleges.

Let's go live in Alabama to "Huntsville Times" court reporter Brian Lawson. Brian has written extensively about this law here.

And, Brian, in reading about this story today, it depends on sort of I guess where you read, myriad headlines. My question, ultimately...

(CROSSTALK)

BRIAN LAWSON, "HUNTSVILLE TIMES": Brooke, I'm sorry. I'm having a little...

BALDWIN: Brian, can you hear me?

LAWSON: Just having a little trouble. Sorry.

BALDWIN: OK. Stay with me. And if you can't hear, just wave really big and I will stop talking.

LAWSON: OK.

BALDWIN: But my question to you, first, off the top here, in all these different headlines, among, let's say, just supporters of this law, is it a win or is it a loss?

LAWSON: For supporters of the law, it's certainly a win. I think, generally, the feeling was going into the court's decision yesterday that she would hew similarly to what other courts had done. And she went a different direction on a couple of major provisions. They were delighted with the outcome yesterday.

BALDWIN: Let's get a little bit more specific, Brian, because I know, even with those parts of the law that she struck down, this law still extends further than Arizona's or any other law of this nature that's passed, does it not? You can just talk about the different pieces of the law that still stand?

LAWSON: Sure. There's still -- they've emphasized this, that they want to touch every part of an illegal alien's life to quote one of the sponsors. That means school registration, there's a system now to track immigration status for new enrollees. It means when you're stopped on a traffic stop, they can check to see what your immigration status is.

If you're somebody who is here unlawfully and you don't have papers, you're look at being arrested for that. There are provisions that deal with contracts. You can't enter a contract with an illegal immigrant.

So in other words, there's a lot of agreements that could go away or be, you know, wiped out. And I think people are left wondering how is this going to work.

One other example, there's a ban on illegal immigrants doing business, having business transactions with governments. So, for example, municipal water system, they could be looking at checking citizenship, and I think that's coming. We've seen some examples already. I think most everybody -- excuse me.

BALDWIN: No, I was just going to ask to your question, how do they enforce these different provisions?

LAWSON: Well, a lot of it has to do with documents. And an awful lot of that has to do with either driver's licenses or passports. If you're here legally, you've got some piece of paper that indicates that, it may be a hassle, but you've got some options.

I think the difficulty from what a lot of the plaintiffs have argued is that immigration status isn't as simple as one piece of paper. Oftentimes you're between decisions, and oftentimes it's a legal case that hasn't been decided but no piece of paper that says I'm in limbo right now, leave me alone.

BALDWIN: We've seen over the last couple of months these images of people protesting. Is this a done deal, Brian?

LAWSON: No, in fact, this afternoon just around lunchtime, one of the larger groups of plaintiffs has filed both a notice of appeal and a request to the court that they stay the law pending the outcome of that appeal. So, not only is it not done immediately, I think the expectation is since there's a different law in Arizona that was blocked, different but similar, you've got two circuit courts with two different decisions on similar law. At that point in general the Supreme Court tends to come in.

BALDWIN: But given the way this federal judge in Birmingham, Alabama, how she ruled, what kind of message, though, do you think this sends to other states potentially?

LAWSON: I think it's wide open. What the judge argued yesterday in her decisions, and this is a pretty important point, was that in following the will of congress, states do have a role to play in immigration law enforcement. Up to now the Justice Department has argued and the courts have sided with them on the idea that immigration law enforcement is primarily a federal government function.

BALDWIN: Brian Lawson of the "Huntsville Times" --

LAWSON: And the states are supposed to play -- excuse me.

BALDWIN: No, she's following the federal law certainly. We'll continue this conversation Brian Lawson. We'll follow this thing through. Thank you so much.

LAWSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Shortly after 9/11, our country was hit with another scare, letters containing the white powder, anthrax, sent in the mail to media, to U.S. senators. Five people died, dozens got sick. Joe Johns has a look at the anthrax letters in his upcoming documentary, and we'll get a preview.

Also look closely. I want to know what you think of this image here. Is it an oily face? That's what one woman says seeing near an historic spot. We're going to tell you where she caught this photo next in "Trending."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Obviously, who could forget 9/11? But weeks after that attack this country was hit by another terror scare, anthrax. Letters containing deadly anthrax spores were mailed to multiple people, including members of the media, and remember those two U.S. senators, in total, five people died, seven others got sick, and Americans had this new fear of the U.S. mail.

Joe Johns is looking into what we learned from that frightening time with this documentary that will air Sunday.

And, Joe, who could forget people didn't want to open their letters, and it took the government quite a while to hone in who did this.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It was terrifying. The country had been talking for a long time about the possibility of a biological attack but really wasn't prepared for it when it actually happened. And if you believe the government's case against their prime suspect, Dr. Bruce Ivins, they suggest he was hiding right under their noses. It took them a long time to figure that out even though someone gave them the suspect's name in the early moments of the investigation. It actually took the federal agents years to track that lead down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: When the anthrax letters hit in October 2001, Nancy Haigwood is an up and coming scientist in Seattle specializing in HIV. A few months after the attack, January, 2002, the FBI e-mails the microbiology's members, "FBI profilers believe it is very likely that one or more of you know this individual."

NANCY HAIGWOOD, SCIENTIST: In my mind, it was as though something clicked.

JOHNS: Who did you think of?

HAIGWOOD: Bruce Ivins.

JOHNS: Bruce Ivins, a scientist at the U.S. army medical research institute for infectious diseases, Ft. Detrick, Maryland. Ivins is expert on anthrax. In fact, he is supposedly helping federal agents.

DAVID WILLMAN, AUTHOR, "THE MIRAGE MAN": In January, 2002, Bruce Ivins was in the thick of it.

JOHNS: What the feds do not see is the hidden side of Bruce and I Ivins, e-mails where he says "I'm being eaten alive by paranoid delusional thoughts."

WILLMAN: Bruce Ivins has led a double life.

JOHNS: Psychiatrists will later describe Ivins as a secretive, paranoid, resentful, and rage-filled man.

WILLMAN: It was a guy who had a definite dark side to him that no one else knew about.

HAIGWOOD: I met Bruce in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

JOHNS: It was the mid-70s. Nancy Haigwood was a graduate student at the University of North Carolina. Bruce Ivins was there, too. Ivins asked incessantly about Haigwood's sorority. He seemed obsessed.

HAIGWOOD: Every time I talked to him, he would mention it. And finally I said, Bruce, that's enough.

JOHNS: As their careers took shape over the years, Ivins kept in touch. Shortly after the anthrax attacks, he e-mails these photos of himself with what he calls the now infamous string of anthrax.

HAIGWOOD: He wanted his former colleagues to know that he was doing important work.

JOHNS: One detail stands out.

HAIGWOOD: He said he was working in the containment lab, and he wasn't wearing gloves. And that is a bio safety hazard. You just don't ever do that. And what that is to me a sign -- "I'm immune."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: So much has been written about all of this. We have the benefit of hindsight now. Turns out there were just a lot of things in this investigation that did not look right, but it took the federal authority as long time to put all the pieces together. And to this day, Brooke, some people say they're still not sure the investigators pointed the finger at the right man.

BALDWIN: So, Joe, here we are, what, 10 years later. Is the government still fearful someone could try this this again?

JOHNS: There are certainly a lot of nerves about that. And we actually get into that in the documentary, what has the government done. And are we prepared if somebody tries this again, certainly from the inside? There are still holes in the system quite frankly and we'll talk about that on Sunday night when this thing airs.

BALDWIN: That's the question, are we prepared. The documentary is called "Death by Mail, the Anthrax Letter," Sunday night 8:00 eastern right here on CNN. Joe Johns, I will be watching. Thank you very much.

Coming up here, foiled. How a terrorist with a big plan and a small plane was caught. We'll take a look inside the toy plane terror plot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now to this bizarre terror plot using remote controlled airplanes. Before you dismiss this as some crazy scheme, consider this -- the accused mastermind actually has a degree in physics who was arrested after sharing this plan with FBI agents posing as Al Qaeda operatives.

This Massachusetts man is a U.S. citizen, had planned to fly these explosives-laden planes in to the Pentagon and the U.S. capitol. CNN's Brian Todd is live in Washington with more on this undercover sting operation. Brian, I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

BRAIN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not really, Brooke. And we did learn from the U.S. attorney's office in Massachusetts just a short time ago when they were talking to me about this six count indictment that they've just handed down that just yesterday when they arrested him he had already packed C-4 explosives on to on those model planes. The planes that we're showing here according to the U.S. attorney's office are like the planes that he had planned to use. These are models of the F-4 phantom and F-86 saber, maybe one-tenth the size of the actual aircraft. He had planned to pack those with c-4 explosives, fly them into the Pentagon and capitol.

And he had planned, according to U.S. authorities, a ground attack to go with that. He had concocted a scheme where two teams of a total of six people would carry tut weapons around those buildings and fire on people as they tried to evacuate, Brooke. So according to federal authorities, he had a fairly elaborate plan in place, but right now, there is no one else who they're naming as any possible suspects, although one official did say the investigation is ongoing.

BALDWIN: What more do you know about this guy, Brian?

TODD: Well, the name is Rezwan Ferdaus. He's 26 years old. He has a degree in physics from Northeastern University. He played in a local band. We talked with the manager of the band yesterday who talked about just confirming basically the fact that he played with the band, didn't really say much else about him.

Neighbors describe him as someone who kept to himself. He lived with his parents and younger brother in Ashland, Massachusetts in an upscale neighborhood about 30 miles from Boston. So that much we know about him.

Clearly he's no dummy, obviously, a degree in physics. Authorities say that he rigged 12 cell phones to act as switches for IEDs that he had hoped would be carried overseas to be used against U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's what it says in the affidavit, that he gave those devices to undercover agents posing as Al Qaeda operatives. This guy clearly knew some of the mechanics of what he was doing or trying to do, so clearly someone they felt they could take very seriously.

BALDWIN: Brian Todd, thank you very much. We'll talk to a former FBI director and ask him how much damage these model planes with these explosives could have caused. Brian, thank you very much.

Next, this eerie image just floating in the water at this historic landmark. Some say it's supernatural. Take a look. You can decide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In a second we'll put an image up on the screen, and I want you -- you be the judge. You tell me what you see here in the water. Take a good long look. What do you see? Susan De Vanny took this picture on vacation with her family in Hawaii. She was actually visiting the USS Arizona memorial at Pearl Harbor earlier this week. And like so many visitors there, she snapped a photo of the water right above the ship's wreckage which sits still on the ocean floor.

She didn't notice what looks to be a face until later. When she did, she wasn't sure what to make of it. So here's what she did next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN DE VANNY, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: I showed my husband and said just have a look at the photo. He said, oh, my gosh, it's a face. It just looked really sad, really sad, and young. The face to me looked young, which I don't know if it represents the men at that time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Maybe you saw the two eyes, the nose. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, they were hoping to destroy the U.S. Pacific fleet. More than 1,100 sailors were killed on the USS Arizona. Most of the bodies were actually never recovered. Some say the Arizona still bleeds, releasing a drop of oil from her hull every few seconds. The oil mixed with water likely responsible for this iridescent illusion that's shimmering just below the surface creating this haunting image.

All this week CNN is going in depth, examining different examples of broken government. And hundreds of people in Saddle Brook, New Jersey, they are sick and tired over this constant battle with rising water. Hurricane Irene caused torrential rain which overwhelmed one of the rivers there. And this wasn't the first time this happened. People have been pushing for the government to dredge this waterway. Now they are saying enough is enough. It's time for a long lasting flood plan. Christine Romans reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had everything fixed. It took me a year to fix it and it's destroyed again. I can't do it. Please help us.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Residents pleaded for help at a rally in Saddle Brook, New Jersey this week as 500 homes were damaged by recent flooding from hurricane Irene and tropical storm Lee. Flooding is not new to this area, but there's been more in recent years due to a build-up of silt in the Saddle River. The Army Corps of Engineers has studied the problem since 1980, even came up with the plan to dredge the river, but nothing happened.

MARY CHAMBERLIN, SADDLE BROOK, NEW JERSEY: We're tired of hearing we don't have the money. We have the money to spend all over the world, but why don't we have the money to come up with the dredging plan and the work to be done?

ROMANS: It's not that officials haven't paid attention. They've visited Saddle Brook.

CHAMBERLIN: I have the article showing Congress people, united Corps of Engineers were there.

ROMANS: Brigida Bailey has a newspaper from four years ago showing her with federal officials in her home after it was damaged from the last major flood. The officials told and other residents the problem could be fixed by 2010, requiring upwards of $100 million in funding. But the money never came and the river was not dredged. Instead there were others in Bailey's home this week, construction workers repairing the damage from recent flooding.

BRIGIDA BAILEY, FLOOD VICTIM: Nothing has been done. All we have is false promises and they lie to us. If I knew I was going to flood again, I would move. I can't go through this again.

ROMANS: What's behind the delays? Environmental concerns and money. The state of New Jersey has refused to pay for removal of toxic materials in and around the river. The extent of contamination is not known. And each delay requires the Army Corp to update the flood plan, which costs additional money. The earliest dredging could happen now not until 2012. Meanwhile, homes keep getting flooded.

MARIA SCADUTO, FLOOD VICTIM: We had furniture here we had to throw out.

ROMANS: This is the third time Maria Scaduto's home has been damaged. Her family has moved out.

SCADUTO: It makes me feel very angry because the politicians, they fight for the money, the money, they create the problems, but who pays for it is us, the people pay for them. We the working people pay for their mistakes.

ROMANS: After the last flood, it took three months before the family could move back home. This time, Maria is uncertain when or if they'll return.

(on camera): The town of Saddle Brook became so frustrated with the delays that four years ago it sued the Army Corps of Engineers in an attempt to force the federal government to finally dredge the river, but there has been no action on that front either.

Christine Romans, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Christine, thank you.

You know most robbers, they hit different banks, right. But this guy, apparently, he was a repeat offender, robbing the same bank three days in a row.

But first, is Herman Cain looking more like a real contender in the GOP field? We get tour Political Ticker, next.

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BALDWIN: A quick little programming note. If you missed me yesterday telling you this, let me just repeat myself. I am moving up an hour in the CNN lineup starting next Monday, so you will still get two hours from our team, but you have to watch from 2:00 to 4:00 eastern or 11:00 to 1:00 pacific starting on Monday.

Now though let's go to Washington for that CNN = Politics update. Let's go to Jim Acosta, live in the --

JIM ACOSTA, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I'm here.

BALDWIN: It said "Mark Preston," but I see Jim Acosta. Let's talk Herman Cain. What's the news?

ACOSTA: There is a little bit of news here. Herman Cain, according to his spokesman, will be meeting with Donald Trump on Monday. Meeting with "the Donald" has become the latest sign of Republican prowess. He's going to be doing that on Monday in New York. Before that he's on "The Tonight Show" with Jay Leno and on Friday he has a book coming out next week. So it's going to be all things Herman Cain the next several days.

And he gave this pretty extraordinary interview on "THE SITUATION ROOM" yesterday with Wolf Blitzer yesterday where he sort of laid into some of the other challengers in the field. First was asked about what do you think about Chris Christie joined the field. And here's what Cain had to say. He didn't hold back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not insulting as much as it is a disservice to the American people. Chris Christie has said for a long time he wasn't interested in running for president. Unfortunately, Wolf, the media is trying to create a story by sucking Chris Christie into this race just like they tried to create a story of sucking Rick Perry into the race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So there you go. He doesn't hold back. He talked about Rick Perry, basically saying at this point he might not be able to support him because of the Texas governor's stance on immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAIN: I could not support Rick Perry as the nominee for a host of reasons. Him being soft on securing the border is one of the reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So, this is the reason, Brooke, why Republicans like Herman Cain so much. He's a fresh face, he is a proven leader in the business world. He's the former CEO of Godfather's Pizza. And he's willing to go after people when he has to go after people, and Republicans like that right now. Just to prove a point, latest FOX News poll came out yesterday showing Herman Cain as a surprising contender in this field. It's stunning stuff. Here's Mitt Romney at 23 percent, Perry at 19 percent. Some of that is due to Perry's performance in the last debate. But look at Herman Cain at 17 percent. This is a challenger that a lot of Republicans here in Washington did not take very seriously, but this is a sign that grassroots support does matter when it comes to picking a nominee. And right now Herman Cain has to be taken seriously, Brooke.

BALDWIN: How about that? He's really got momentum, doesn't he?

Thank you so much. Another political update in half an hour.