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Al Qaeda Propagandist Killed; Forecast Says Recession Imminent; Top Atom Smasher Closes; Conrad Murray On Trial; Youngest Person Executed Since 1800s; DC Gridlock Hurting Cities

Aired September 30, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Suzanne. Thank you very much. Have a nice weekend.

He inspired recruited and plotted. He was born in America but considered Americans' enemies. He was the face of Al Qaeda but lived as a fugitive in Yemen, until today.

Today, we're following the fallout from the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, considered by many the Osama bin laden of the Internet. A government source says he was taken out in a U.S. drone strike some 90 miles east of the Yemeni capital. Sanaa, along with three companions, one of them reportedly another American Al Qaeda propagandist.

Al-Awlaki's writings and teachings have been linked to several of the highest profile terrorists or terror suspects of the decade, including the Christmas day underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab. The accused Fort Hood attacker, U.S. Major Nidal Hasan, three of the 9/11 hijackers and the attempted Time Square car bomber Faisal Shahzad.

At an appearance just a short time ago in Virginia, President Obama said the world is well-rid of Anwar al-Awlaki.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The death of Awlaki is a major blow to Al Qaeda's most active operational affiliate. Awlaki was the leader of external operations for Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. In that role, he took the lead in planning and directing efforts to murder innocent Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: For more on Awlaki, the Al Qaeda off shoot he , and where we go from here, I want to bring in CNN's Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson. Nic, this was a huge development. Why was al-Awlaki such a threat and really such a priority, do you think, for the U.S.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he was an intellectual. He was smart. He was well educated. He knew how to sort of manipulate his audience and the one thing that he had that Al Qaeda really wanted was a way to communicate with recruits, potential recruits in the west. He spoke English and he spoke it with a charisma and a meaning that drew in radicals or potential radicals towards Al Qaeda. And really that's what gave him an edge over sort of other Arabic-speaking Imams who couldn't appeal to this western audience.

So, he's been able to do things for Al Qaeda that others couldn't. That also meant revenue streams, a potential for money to flowing into Al Qaeda's funds. He sold thousands upon thousands of DVDs -- inspirational DVDs. Not all of them calling for terrorist actions by any stretch of the imagination but he'd become very popular with a wide English-speaking Muslim audience around the world.

KAYE: And Nic, help us understand how he went from this privileged childhood, a privileged kid, to a mouthpiece and really master plotter?

ROBERTSON: Yes, some of it's kind of bizarre because this is a man who was picked up for soliciting hookers when he was in Imam in California which doesn't sort of fit the profile and the image you would expect. However, what we have seen over the past is other extreme radicals who've trodden a path of alcohol or women or drugs and then sort of finding their way and becoming holier than thou, if you will, and becoming extremely religious.

And he seems to have -- he seems to have sort fallen into that pattern, that over the sort of period of the late '90s and 2000s, he became more and more radicalized, leaving the United States, preaching at mosques in England, drawing huge crowds here before going off to Yemen, arrested in Yemen, put in jail in Yemen, before being freed. But it was his privileged upbringing, the son of a government minister. His access to education -- educated at several U.S. universities that really -- that sort of set him above the others, if you will.

KAYE: All right. Nic Robertson, thank you so much for the background there. A appreciate that. My colleague Drew Griffin has reported in depth on terrorist recruitment and radicalization. He joins me now on phone from North Carolina.

Drew, tell us first about the view in some quarters that Awlaki can still with a potent threat even after his death.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and I think this is something that the Obama administration has struggled with, whether to make this man a military target or not, because you know, he was an American. Let's make no toys mistake about it. Nic said he spoke English, he actually spoke American English because he was born and raised here up until he was about 21 years old. So, you have to cross the hurdle of killing an American.

But also, he was a religious leader to many, many Muslims across the world, Randi. So to take him out, to kill him in some fashion, this very, very popular preacher and teacher of the Koran could be seen as making this guy a martyr. And I know that the Obama administration struggled with that up until about the summer of last year when Awlaki really -- he made a very, very hard turn and became, as they say, operational, involved in the planning.

And I think you heard the president today using those very words of a justification to take this guy out who had been a spiritual leader to many terrorists become a terrorist himself involved in actual planning and plotting.

KAYE: I mean, Drew, you look at the people who he influenced and those that he even trained and he spoke to directly. I mean, how would you say he was more dangerous, as a recruiter and a propagandist or really as a mover and shaker and someone who really had an incredible influence on these wannabe terrorists?

GRIFFIN: Yes, it would be hard to say. I almost look upon it, if you were examining this, as a kind of filling a void to become operational. I think he may have been much more dangerous inspiring terrorists. You know, he didn't pack Matallab's underwear with explosives or put a gun in Adal Hasan's hand, but what he did do was offer them the moral justification for what they were about to do. Maybe cheaply, you know, should I or should I not attack Americans? And he would write back with some cherry picked version of the Koran, a quote here, "giving them the spiritual justification for the killing that they were about to take place."

And also, Randi, consider the source. This is an American Muslim telling these would be terrorists, it's OK to attack people in my country. In that warped world they all live in, that was giving a lot of people justification for carrying out these attacks. If Awlaki, the American says it's OK, then it must be OK. So, I think he may have been much more dangerous as a religious figure.

KAYE: Chilling messages from him, That is for sure. Drew Griffin, thank you so much.

And before we move on, I want you to know about our security clearance blog. It is your online source for the best reporting and analysis of terrorism, intelligence, military matters, and diplomacy from Washington and around the world. It is really, really interesting. You should check it out. You can find it at CNN.com/security. And you can follow the tweet at -- @national security CNN.

Other stories developing right now. The Pentagon has issued new rules allowing military chaplains to perform same-sex marriages. Chaplains can perform weddings for same-sex couples but only if allowed by state law and is permitted by the chaplain's religious beliefs. The Marching orders come 10 days after the end of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy that kept gays and lesbians from serving openly in the military.

According to a forecast from the Economic Cycle Research Institute, the U.S. economy is headed for another recession. The ECRI produces wildly followed leading indicators which predict when the economy is moving between recession and expansion. And how do Americans feel about the economy? Well apparently, take a look there, not so hot. The new CNN ORC poll shows 90 percent of Americans say conditions remain poor. And a majority of Americans still blame former president Bush and his party for economic conditions, 52 percent blame Bush and the Republicans. 32 percent blame President Obama and the Democrats.

Are you ready for more bank fees? It will cost you $5.00 a month to use your bank of America debit card starting next year. The fee applies even if you only use your debit card once that month. Other big banks are also testing the monthly fee idea. They point to new regulations limiting how much they can charge retailers each time you swipe your debit card.

This afternoon America's top atom smasher closes. The hadron (ph), the world's second largest energy particle accelerator atom smasher will power down after two-and-a-half decades. The facility just outside of Chicago has made major contributions to physics, including the discovery and measurement of an essential building block of matter called the top quirk. In January, it was announced that the accelerator failed to find funding to continue operation beyond the close of the fiscal year.

Coming up, we'll see what's happening in the trial of Michael Jackson's physician, Dr. Conrad Murray. A doctor will give his perspective on the testimony so far on what happened right before and after 911 was finally called. We'll be right back with much more from Los Angeles.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: It is now day four of the trial of Michael Jackson's doctor here in Los Angeles. Testimony reveals more and more details of the final minutes the superstar was alive and the crucial moments just after no one could revive him. Today, the paramedics who arrived at Jackson's home in June 2009 are expected on the stand. They will help show, prosecutors say, that Conrad Murray is to blame for the pop star's death, wrongly giving him surgical anesthetic Propofol to treat insomnia.

Joining me now is Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, a board certified internist. Dr. Rodriguez, thank you for coming on. As someone who provides care for patients, what would you say the biggest mistake was that you think Dr. Murray might have committed? Might it have been leaving Michael Jackson while he was sedated?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, MD, INTERNAL MEDICINE, CANOGA PARK, CA: Certainly. That was one of the ones that was crucial. I mean, there's an old saying in medicine, you never turn your back on a woman in labor or someone that's sedated because things could happen so quickly. So, the fact that he left the room when there was -- I suppose a respiratory arrest, I think is very damaging to him.

KAYE: The head of logistics for Michael Jackson, Alberto Alvarez, testified yesterday. And he said that when he got to the bedside of Michael Jackson, Dr. Murray started giving him some orders. I want you to listen to what he testified to in court and then I want to ask you about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID WALGREN, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: What were the exact words he said when he -- when he had these vials in his hand and he was reaching them out to you?

ALBERTO ALVAREZ, DIRECTOR OF LOGISTICS, MICHAEL JACKSON: He said, put these in a bag.

WALGREN: Did you grab a bag?

ALVAREZ: I did. I looked towards my right and there was a plastic bag sitting on top of the chair. And so, I proceeded to get the bag, and I opened it and he placed the vials in the bag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: It sounds as though -- according to that testimony, that cleaning up the drugs and the vials became priority before even calling 911. What do you make of that behavior?

DR. RODRIGUEZ: I think it's absolutely not the usual standard of practice. What should have been happening in that room is that when someone is in a cardiac arrest that doctor should have been performing CPR simultaneously from word go, from the first moment. And then maybe giving orders to call the paramedics. Not to clean the room, and not to hide any evidence. And so, he should've been working on his patient to try to save that patient's life. That's the standard of care.

KAYE: And one of the drugs that Michael Jackson was being given there by Dr. Murray was this drug Propofol. If he had been combining that with Lorizapam -- as many as eight tablets of Lorizapam, and maybe even Demerol which is a stimulant and actually works against Propofol, how dangerous is that to combine all of that?

DR. RODRIGUEZ: That's very dangerous. He would be stacking sedatives. And even though Demerol can have a paradoxical effect to be a stimulant, it too is a sedative. What's dangerous about using those medications, and as a gastroenterologist, we sedate people with Demerol, with Versed and with Propofol, but they're monitored every single step of the way.

Those other medications have a very long half-life, so you really don't know how much is in the system. You add something like Propofol on top of that, you know what, and you're asking for trouble. At the very least, that patient needs to be monitored and nobody needs to leave the room while they're on that medication.

KAYE: Dr. Rodriguez, appreciate your expertise, as always. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you're welcome.

KAYE: Up next, the story of a 95-pound, 14-year-old boy, legally executed in South Carolina. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAYE: When Troy Davis was put to death last week for the 1989 killing of an off-duty police officer in Georgia, his case drew international attention. His story was told on every major news network and big names like Pope Benedict, Desmond Tutu and former President Jimmy Carter all said the execution should have been called off.

Another controversial execution was that of George Junius Stinney Jr. Never heard of him? Well, it may be because he was put to death back in 1944. Why should we know his name? Because he was the youngest person -- the youngest person legally put to death in the U.S. since the 1800s.

At 14 years old, six months as well, and five days old, he was legally electrocuted in Columbia, South Carolina, for murdering two white girls with a railroad spike. National Public Radio reports he confessed to the crime. The trial lasted less than three hours. No witnesses were called. No defense evidence was presented. And it took an all white jury 10 minutes to give him the chair.

Some report that Stinney was bribed into confession for ice cream and that at 5'1" they actually needed to stack up books to fit him on the electric chair. Joining me now or today's "Under Covered" story, Marc Lamont Hill, a professor at Columbia University and the host of "Our World" with Black Enterprise.

Marc, thank you so much. First, do you think that this boy was physically capable of killing two girls with a railroad spike?

MARC LAMONT HILL, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Absolutely not. You know, when you weigh 95 pounds at that age, it is nearly a physical impossibility to kill one, much less two girls with a railroad spike. I mean it's physically impossible. All the other evidence says he didn't do that as well. But that part alone should have stopped anyone from moving further.

KAYE: And when you think about this, he's 14 years old, the possibility, according to some reports, that he was given ice cream to confess. What do you make of that?

HILL: I mean, it just speaks to just how disturbing -- I mean even disgusting the whole process was. First of all, a 14-year-old boy should have never been in police custody without an attorney or certainly without his parents. But, none the less, he was there. And then the idea that there was no written confession. That all they had was supposedly an oral confession of this boy which was prompted by ice cream suggests again that something was foul here. In fact, everything was foul here. There's no way a 14-year-old boy could do it. And if he did do it, there's certainly no way he would confess knowing the stakes were that high over a scoop of ice cream.

KAYE: Yes, I'm glad you pointed that out because there was no written confession. It was simply a verbal confession, according to the sheriff there.

But tell me, first, how did Stinney actually become a suspect in this case?

HILL: Well, that's the worst part of all. You know, he became a suspect because he was actually part of the search party looking for the two girls. Many members of the town that day decided to help find the girls. He joined the search party and, in the process of helping to find the girls, he mentioned that he had seen them earlier that day. And somehow the fact that he had seen the girls that day made him -- accounted for reasonable suspicion and suddenly they decided to bring him in to police custody. So it was his willingness to help that made him -- which is certainly not a sign of criminality -- which made him a suspect in the first place.

KAYE: And will this case be reopened? I mean if it has been under covered, certainly in our opinion, now it's getting some attention. But we're looking back at 1944.

HILL: Well, it's going to get reopened most likely. I mean there's the political will to do it. There's a desire to do it. The sad part, of course, is that the stakes are relatively low. Even after we find out that he was ultimately not guilty, that he was, in fact, completely innocent, we can't bring him back to life. He can't get his family back. His family can't get him back. It's a tragic circumstance. But it's still worth reopening because we want to show that -- just how flawed our criminal justice system is and how flawed our death penalty is as a moral and political project. And maybe if we can do that consistently, we'll stop having executions today because the system is just as flawed today. We saw that with Troy Davis last week.

KAYE: All right, Marc Lamont Hill, appreciate having you on the show. Thank you.

Well, mayors across the nation are fed up with all the bickering in Washington. Their message? Quit the fighting and focus on jobs. And one mayor in particular is leading the charge. L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, joining us here onset, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: As our cities go, so goes the nation. Those words from Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. He knows, perhaps more than anybody right now, how the political gridlock in Washington is hurting our cities. As president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, he led a delegation of city leaders through to the capital last week urging President Obama and Congress to put aside politics and focus on one thing, that thing is jobs. Villaraigosa says hundreds of thousands of them could be created right now if the government agrees to fund local infrastructure projects.

L.A. could receive more than $600 million in loans to kick-start some of those projects. If Washington gets its act together, that is, of course. Mayor Villaraigosa joins us now here.

Mayor, welcome. So nice to see you.

MAYOR ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA, LOS ANGELES: Great to be here. KAYE: You're not waiting on Washington, are you?

VILLARAIGOSA: No, we're not. We've put up our own money. A half penny sales tax generating $40 billion over the next 30 years to double the size of the rail system, to repair our roads and our highways. But we could accelerate that from 30 years to 10 years if the government would leverage what we're doing with a transportation loan program. There is support, bipartisan, by the way. Miraculous.

KAYE: That is miraculous.

VILLARAIGOSA: John Mica in the House, Barbara Boxer in the Senate, both support increasing the loan program for transportation projects from $122 million to $1 billion a year. It's a great way to get people to work now without putting a lot of money up on the part of the federal government. And those are the kind of innovative ideas that we put together in our common sense agenda for jobs that the mayors across the nation, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, have put together.

KAYE: Let's talk about jobs and something that New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. I'm sure you're aware of this. He said that there could be riots in the streets if young men remain unemployed. Do you think that's right? I mean could you see that happening here in Los Angeles?

VILLARAIGOSA: Well, I think that the poverty rate is higher than at any time since 1993. One of the highest poverty rates that we've had in decades. The unemployment rate at 14.5 percent here in L.A., some places as high as 20 percent in south Los Angeles. We have to put people back to work.

I don't want to focus on what will happened if we don't because I don't think we should be in that position. The federal government has the wherewithal to focus on jobs. I've said that the biggest deficit facing the nation is not the deficit and the debt, it's a deficit of jobs. And that's what these people in Washington ought to be focused on, and they're not. And I think that's why Michael Bloomberg said what he said.

KAYE: As president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, which you are, it's a nonpartisan group that's unveiled really its own common sense jobs agenda. Tell me about this agenda and why you think it might work better than what Washington is trying to do.

VILLARAIGOSA: Well, actually, the president has embraced a number of the initiatives that we have put forward. These are initiatives, by the way, that have historically had Republican and Democratic support. As you said, our organization is bipartisan. They're a number of very significant cities that have Republican mayors. Michael Bloomberg is an independent, was a Republican for a while, a Democrat before that. We're not focused on ideology and orthodoxy. We're focused on jobs. On putting people back to work. I like to say there's not a Republican or Democratic way to pick up a trash or to keep neighborhoods safe and there shouldn't be a Republican or Democratic way to put people back in work. KAYE: Yes. For anyone who thinks that the gridlock in Washington doesn't affect states or cities like yours, they're wrong.

VILLARAIGOSA: They're absolutely wrong. And so that you understand, when I said, as cities go, so goes the nation. If you just took the top 10 cities, metropolitan areas in the country, we would have a $5 trillion economy. We're roughly a third of the U.S. economy. So if you put people back to work in our cities, you're putting America back to work. Just New York, Chicago, and L.A. alone are the size of the French economy, which is the fifth largest economy in the world. So, putting people back to work, repairing our bridges, our roads, our highways, rebuilding our schools, avoiding teacher layoffs, all of these things are good things because they're investing in the infrastructure and the foundation of our economy.

KAYE: I want to talk to you about next year's election. And actually we have a new poll, a brand new CNN/ORC poll that I want to share with you and our viewers, as well. A staggering 90 percent of Americans say that economic conditions are poor. You're a Democrat. You're a supporter of the president. Can he ride this out? Can -- will this hurt him come 2012?

VILLARAIGOSA: Look, everybody in public office right now are in jeopardy of losing their jobs.

And they are because people are hurting. They're losing their homes. They're unemployed. They're struggling to make ends meet. And it's -- we're duty bound. And I think the president understands that. He's focused on that. That's why he put his jobs agenda out. That's why he put a number of initiatives that appeal to both sides of the aisle.

But it's the Congress, frankly, that has failed their job and particularly a small group of people that are putting ideology and orthodoxy, their party before the country.

KAYE: Just very quickly, before I let you go, since here we're in Los Angeles, we're also covering the Conrad Murray trial, Michael Jackson's doctor. Is the city making any preparations for when this verdict might come down, which be in a few weeks from now? Do you expect to have any trouble here?

VILLARAIGOSA: I don't expect that we will have trouble, but we're always prepared. The LAPD is one of the finest law enforcement organization anywhere in the world. And I can tell you that we have events all of the time, from the Grammys, the celebrity trials.

KAYE: You're ready.

VILLARAIGOSA: We're ready.

KAYE: And I want to congratulate you as well. I know your crime is down, the lowest since 1952, you told me.

VILLARAIGOSA: 1952.

KAYE: Nicely done, Mayor.

VILLARAIGOSA: Thank you.

KAYE: Pleasure to see you. Thank you.

VILLARAIGOSA: Thank you.

KAYE: Coming up, sex acts, booze, and a big fine. How a strip club busted a movie theater and why the movie "Hangover 2" is involved. Yes, can't really make this stuff up.

We will have much more on that. Keep it here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

KAYE: Florida has moved its primary date, throwing the GOP nominating calendar into complete chaos. But could it actually be good for the country? Everything is "Fair Game" when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

Leave your talking points at the door.

For the next few minutes, anything is "Fair Game." And that includes the hallowed tradition of small states having first dibs on selecting our future president.

You see, Florida has approved a motion to hold the state's presidential primary on January 31. This move will likely throw the carefully arranged Republican nominating calendar into disarray and jump-start the nominating process a month earlier than party leaders had hoped.

And although the state may receive limited delegate seating at the GOP convention, Florida Republicans think that it is worth it. All right, the fair question to ask, of course, is this. Is it better for the country to have a larger, more diverse state such as Florida toward the beginning of the nominating process?

Joining me now to discuss this, talk all about it is a Nancy Pfotenhauer, a former senior policy adviser to John McCain. Along with us, Democratic political consultant Ed Espinoza and CNN contributor John Avlon.

Glad to see all of you.

Ed, I want to start with you.

Our current system starts the process off with four small states. So why is this a good idea?

ED ESPINOZA, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: The thing about small states -- and I have worked in Iowa and I have worked in Nevada on a couple of different presidential campaigns.

When you have smaller states with smaller media markets, your money goes a lot farther. If you have a candidate with big ideas and a small war chest, they can still compete -- $2,000 gets you a week's worth of media in Davenport, Iowa. It doesn't get you a whole lot in some of the bigger states.

It makes sense for the early states to be able to test and to vet candidates at a more micro level, more retail politics.

KAYE: Nancy, what do you think? Shouldn't a larger and more diverse state like Florida be able to jump in earlier?

NANCY PFOTENHAUER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I guess you can make a case for either side.

Theoretically, I agree with the fact that you will find out right away whether the candidates have the money and the organization to go the distance by making them clear a bar like a state of Florida. On the other hand, you could argue that we lose the opportunity for some challengers who have big ideas and -- because think about how the other -- the process worked last time around.

It's not just who wins Iowa. It can even be who comes in second if it was unexpected. But they need a little time to build up a head of steam. And so I think this really benefits somebody like a Romney. Obviously he's got the money, the organization, the name I.D. It's also acts as an insurance policy for Romney if he loses one of the earlier races, which is anticipated.

KAYE: John, what do you think about the idea of maybe rotating who goes first?

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that election reform is badly needed. And this is a good example.

I think we do need to look again at a lot of these things that have the power of precedent, but maybe don't make so much sense practically for who we are as a nation in the 21st century. The sheer uncertainty of the primary calendar is a giant problem, the chaos of the primary calender, the fact that we're 100 days out roughly and we don't know for sure what the order is going to be. That's no way to pick a leader of the free world, people.

We have some work to do. And I think we should look at wholesale election forum.

(CROSSTALK)

ESPINOZA: But that's not going to change. Part of the problem is, is that...

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: Ed, what is the answer here?

ESPINOZA: There's not really an answer. The problem, we just have to play the cards as they're presented to us.

KAYE: Right.

ESPINOZA: See, national parties can set their own nominating process. But the states still determine and pay for the elections. And there's no real connection there. What we have to rely on is our best efforts, when the national parties are coordinating with the state parties and the state governments years in advance, that these agreements are held to.

What we're seeing right now and what we didn't see in 2007 were states actually stick to these agreements. Until we can stick -- make a plan and stick to it, this problem is going to persist.

PFOTENHAUER: I have to agree.

KAYE: But, Nancy, you...

PFOTENHAUER: Go ahead.

KAYE: Yes. No, you go.

AVLON: The best efforts are not working. That's the problem.

The system is not working. We can talk about the power of precedent. And Iowa and New Hampshire have shown that they play an important role, especially New Hampshire's open primary that allows the 42 percent of voters who are independents to participate.

But this level of chaos doesn't make any sense. And there are implications beyond the parties themselves and the states themselves. So I do think we need to think anew. We need to think a little bit bigger about this process because it affects a lot of people.

KAYE: Nancy.

PFOTENHAUER: But even the unpredictability of it favors candidates who have the war chest and have basically have decided two years ago that they're going to run because they are best able to handle the unpredictability.

We have seen people gamble when they thought they understood the calendar before and the calendar shifted. You know, let's look at Florida just for a second. We have mentioned that it's a prize worth getting, but it's a prize worth a lot less right now. And it's kind of like getting the date with your -- you know, the guy you wanted to date in high school 10 years later. Only, he's gained 40 pounds and he's gone balding. It's just not worth that much.

KAYE: That doesn't sound very good.

(LAUGHTER)

KAYE: Well, if Florida does come up early, John, does it hurt Perry, does it help Perry? What do you think? AVLON: Well, right now, we're basically looking at everybody moving forward. And it was always unrealistic, I thought, to think that New Hampshire was going to be February 14.

While I like the symbolism, it never made a lot of sense. Clearly, the gauntlet makes sense for the Republican Party, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida. But when we start getting into the spin cycle, the momentum here, Florida really is a crucible because it is a very representative state, it is broad, it is diverse, it is big.

And candidates are trying to run down the center-right. The real contest is New Hampshire/Florida. And that is more reflective of the general electorate than even my former home state of South Carolina or the Iowa caucus, a very representative state in terms of political overview, but the caucus itself is distorting because it's inherently small.

KAYE: Well, I know that all of you will be marking your calendars in pencil. And I will be doing the same just in case all of these dates change. So use a pencil and bring a big eraser. That's my advice.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: All right, thank you all. Appreciate it.

PFOTENHAUER: Thank you very much.

KAYE: Born in the USA, he grew up to become al Qaeda's YouTube jihadist. But Anwar al-Awlaki's father tells CNN his son was the all- American boy. Paula Newton met the father face to face. We will speak with her about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: A man considered a major threat to U.S. homeland security is dead in Yemen. That is one of the countries where the terror group al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is believed most active and where Anwar al-Awlaki was killed today in an airstrike.

CNN's Paula Newton joins me now live. Paula, you have actually spent a lot of time in Yemen tracking down members of al-Awlaki's family, people who paint a very different picture it seems of the public face of al Qaeda. What can you tell us about that?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I had a rapport with his father, Dr. Nasser. He was educated in the United States. Many of his children were born in the United States. He educated his children in the United States.

Anwar was one of them. And he described to me a son who was involved in everything that was cultural in the U.S., went to school there. He showed me pictures of them at Disney World. And he paints the picture of a man who was very devout Muslim and preached peace. He does admit that in the last few years, the preaching had turned more radical. But he was desperate even when he spoke to me, Randi -- and I have had a rapport with him over a couple of years now -- that the U.S. not track him down in this way. He often told me that he believed his son would be better captured and if they wanted to, to actually charge him with something and try him with something. What he did not want was him assassinated in this way.

He didn't really have any insight into what had turned his son against the United States. And it was a point of contention with him, Randi. Even when I presented him with evidence, supposed evidence that his son was encouraging the death of Americans and the death of innocents, he still refused to believe it.

He was though very anguished by this, tormented by how this had happened. Randi, you have to imagine, here's a guy who is taking care of Anwar al-Awlaki's family. His grandchildren are there with him, his wife. A lot of pressure on him to keep this together. He wouldn't tell me if he had any communication with Anwar.

He normally would tell me that he didn't, but he was sure that his clan, that his relatives in Yemen were keeping him safe -- Randi.

KAYE: When you look at somebody like him who really grew up rather privileged from what I understand, he still wasn't able to point to one turning point in his son's life that really turned him radical?

NEWTON: He certainly said that 9/11 had a big impact on him.

But he felt that at that point in time, he said that Anwar was appalled by what happened after 9/11 and only really taught peace and understanding. He wanted to be a bridge between the Muslim world and the Western world.

But in the middle there, the only thing that he ever alluded to was the fact that really the way the war on terror was prosecuted that he felt perhaps had dissuaded him. Other people I talked to on the ground though, Randi, in Yemen had a completely different story, the fact that Anwar Awlaki wanted to rival Osama bin Laden. And that was the picture that they painted of the man who really, really was a very, very influential Internet preacher and radical for many people following that on the Internet -- Randi.

KAYE: Paula Newton, appreciate that inside story there from the family. Thank you very much.

Well, coming up, now that Florida has moved its primary date, what does this mean for the GOP and the country as a whole? Your "Political Ticker" is coming your way next. So keep in here on CNN.

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KAYE: Florida is making some big moves that could affect the GOP, could affect votes.

So let's check in with Paul Steinhauser. He's at the political desk in Washington.

Paul, what is happening?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hey, Randi, call it primary calendar chaos. Listen, we knew it was going to happen.

It happened today. Just a few hours ago, Florida, Republicans down there, they moved their primary state and they are going to hold it now on January 31. What does that mean? That's breaking the Republican Party rules. What does it mean for the other states, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina? Those four are supposed to go first.

They vow that they will stay first, which means expect an announcement in the next few days that they will move up even earlier, probably into the early and middle of January. Randi, everything is being pushed fast forward. That means one last month now for the candidates to get out there to the early states to meet with voters and to beef up their campaigns. This is putting everything in fast forward -- Randi.

KAYE: It certainly is. I hope you're ready, Paul. Thank you very much.

STEINHAUSER: Thank you.

Well, it's a four-year court saga that is coming to an end one way or another. Will Amanda Knox be set free or spend 20 more years behind bars for murder? We will hear from Amanda Knox's father next.

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CURT KNOX, FATHER OF AMANDA KNOX: We have purchased Amanda a ticket.

EDDA MELLAS, MOTHER OF AMANDA KNOX: I pray that she can come back.

I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: An emotional Curt Knox and Edda Mellas talking about their hope that daughter Amanda Knox would be set free for the holidays. That was back in 2009. It's been a long journey for the Knox family.

Amanda Knox and her then boyfriend were convicted of the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher. And they are now appealing the conviction in the same Italian court. In closing arguments yesterday, their attorneys argued police made mistakes and evidence does not support their convictions.

But today prosecutors say the evidence is clear and the DNA proves guilt.

Joining me now from Italy, Amanda's father, Curt Knox.

Curt, thank you so much for joining us today.

First, I want to ask you your impressions on the prosecution's...

KNOX: Thank you for having me.

KAYE: ... closing arguments today.

KNOX: Well, really, the closing arguments that they presented were just virtually circumstantial, because one of the key components that has taken place in the appeals trial is having court-appointed independent experts evaluate the DNA evidence and bring back just totally unreliable results.

So we're very hopeful that that will lead to an acquittal for Amanda and Raffaele.

KAYE: When are you expecting a decision?

KNOX: It's actually going to probably come down some time around anywhere from probably 3:00 to 5:00 p.m., I would guess, Perugia time, on Monday. So we're going to be crossing our fingers.

KAYE: You have said -- your exact quote, I believe, is that prosecutors have no case left.

Do you think there's any chance that your daughter is not going to be freed?

KNOX: Well, there's always a chance. After what happened during the first trial, where you take an 11-month trial and you crystallize it in five days of defense closing arguments and they totally break the case completely and to have the devastating guilty verdict that we did in the first trial, it's something that's always in the back of your mind.

But we're very hopeful that they have heard the same thing we have heard in the appeals trial, which hopefully will lead to her acquittal. But they are the ones that make that decision.

KAYE: Here on CNN, we had exclusive pictures yesterday that we aired of your daughter dancing behind bars there. Can you tell us how she's doing?

KNOX: Well, I'm not certain that you have really got the real effect of what happens in prison.

Prison is not an enjoyable time. So this is -- there is very certain moments that take place that allow all of the prisoners within Capanne to try to feel like what it's like outside in the real world. And those moments are few and far between, and it shouldn't be distorted that that is something that happens on a daily basis. But it's nice to see her smile or do something, given that her freedom has been taken away for four years for something that she hasn't done and seen nothing but steel and concrete. So, we're hopeful that we will be able to take her away from there soon.