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Amanda Knox's Appeal; Wall Street Protests Enters 3rd Week; Rick Perry's Word Controversy; Health Care Goes Before High Court; Prince Harry Training in the U.S.; More Recession Talk; Amanda Knox: "I Did Not Kill"; Conrad Murray Trail
Aired October 03, 2011 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Ali. Good morning, Carol.
Good morning to all of you. Nice to be with you.
We have been talking about Amanda Knox and her notorious international murder case now for I think now four years. And now her fate is in the hands of an Italian judge and jury. It is a fate that could mean freedom or it could mean a stiffer prison sentence.
Earlier, Knox told a jury that she didn't kill her roommate back in 2007.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA KNOX, DEFENDANT (through translator): I am not what they say I am. I haven't murdered. I haven't raped. I haven't stolen. I wasn't there. I wasn't present in that crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: CNN's Matthew Chance was in the courtroom.
Matthew, walk us through this morning's hearing, will you?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Martin. Well, it was very emotional first of all. Amanda Knox came in escorted by the guards as she always is -- but she looked very stressed indeed, very pale. Her head was hung down. She didn't even look at her family, who were gathered as they always do in one corner of the courtroom to give her support.
So she sat at that table. Her boyfriend -- a former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, also serving a lengthy prison sentence for the murder of Meredith Kercher, he spoke first. He said they were both innocent. But then the big moment came. Perhaps the biggest speech of Amanda Knox's life.
And she turned to that jury. She managed to compose herself because she was in tears, and, you know, make this impassioned plea for them to set her free. She said she wanted her life back. She was tired of being punished for something she didn't do, she said. And so she said it all as well, Martin, in fluent Italian. Over the past four years since she's been in prison she's obviously perfected the spoken local language.
And so that may have endeared as something somewhat towards the jury as well. The big question is, of course, what will happen next. The jury has -- have now retired from the court. We're not expecting to hear back from them for several hours from now.
SAVIDGE: Matthew Chance, thank you very much, outside the courthouse there.
And I am certain that, yes, speaking fluent Italian did have an impression on the jury.
CNN's Paula Newton is outside the courtroom where Amanda Knox is now waiting for a verdict.
Paula, what if the jury overturns this verdict? How son could she possibly go free?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as far as Amanda Knox is concerned she believes she would be free tonight. That is, after a few hours returned here to this prison where she sits right now, and that she would be on a plane home within hours.
I just spoke to an Italian parliamentarian who was allowed in here to visit with her. He says she is in the prison chapel. She is singing hymns, playing hymns. She is being allowed to stay with the chaplain, the prison's chaplain, and that she is absolutely confident, she's calm, she does believe she will be on a home -- a plane bound for home tonight -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: And there is also, even though this is an appeal, there is still a further appeal that is possible here. Is that true for both sides?
NEWTON: It is true for both sides, but they cannot hold her. If she is absolved, if she is acquitted in this appeal, she is a free woman. She will be given her passport back. She will be able to go home. If they order another appeal case, that means that the Italian government can appeal for extradition from the United States to Italy.
But that is a long way off, and that is after a high court ruling which would be several months away, and if the prosecution wins that.
SAVIDGE: Paula Newton, standing by outside of the prison where Amanda Knox is currently being held. Thanks very much. We'll stay in touch with both and Matthew. Thanks.
Here in the States, Occupy Wall Street protesters aren't backing down after a weekend faceoff with police. Seven hundred people were arrested during a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday. And now organizers say the demonstration is spreading across the country.
Alison Kosik is at the New York Stock Exchange.
Alison, this protest is now in its third week, right? ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Martin. And it is growing. You can see the difference from when I was out there on the street talking with them just a few days ago to now. You can see how the numbers are growing. And you know they'd wanted media attention, and you know what? Now they've got it.
But this time the media attention is more for the arrests that happened over the weekend here in New York. Hundreds of protesters, they marched on the Brooklyn Bridge, essentially shutting it down for a few hours, so hundreds were either arrested or ticketed for walking on the roadway.
After that, after they were released from lockup, they went straight back to the park right around here in the financial district, went back to holding their signs. Denouncing everything from corporate greed to high gas prices and calling for a four-day work week.
And you know what, we're seeing this star power continue as well. Along with Susan Sarandon, who we ran into last week, we're seeing media mogul Russell Simmons jumping on the bandwagon here, lending advice to help protesters more define their message.
Even Alec Baldwin took to Twitter, offering his support, putting up some pictures, sending encouraging messages to them.
One interesting thing that happened this weekend, Martin, if we can go to that, our Susan Candiotti was doing a live shot out there, and for some reason they literally threw a dog across the way. I don't know if we can go to that. I don't quite understand what they were trying to accomplish there. So much for peace, love, and understanding -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Tossing the dog. All right. Thanks very much, Alison. We'll check back with you and see how the markets are doing. And it's not shaping up to look like a good day.
KOSIK: OK.
SAVIDGE: Thanks.
All right, let's go to politics now. Texas Governor Rick Perry at the center of a controversy. Over the name of a Texas hunting camp once leased by him and his family that contained the N word. According to "The Washington Post," a rock at the camp entrance was painted with the name in big letters.
The campaign spokespersons says that Perry's father painted over the rocks as soon after they began using that property back in the 1980s.
CNN deputy political director Paul Steinhauser.
And Paul, lots of fallout over this particular issue, isn't it?
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No doubt, Martin. Yes. Rick Perry definitely in the spotlight this morning because of that "Washington Post" article yesterday. And I'll tell you, what was telling was how quick the Perry campaign early on a Sunday morning reacted to CNN when we reached out to them.
Very quick with the reaction. And here's part of the statement from the campaign saying, "A number of claims made in the story are incorrect, inconsistent, and anonymous, including the implication that Rick Perry brought groups to the lease when the word on the rock was still visible. One consistent fact in the story is roc was painted and obscured many years ago."
But there are some sources, anonymous sources, in that story that say that the word was on the rock just a few years back.
Martin, Herman Cain, also running for the Republican presidential nomination, an African-American, he was on the Sunday talk shows, he was asked about it. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My reaction is that's just very insensitive. That is on a much -- that isn't a more vile, negative word than the N word. And for him to leave it there as long as it did before I hear that they finally painted over it, it's just plain insensitive to a lot of black people in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEINHAUSER: Just minutes after Herman Cain went on the Sunday talk shows, Perry campaign came back with another reaction, very quick again, where they said they agreed with Herman Cain that the word is definitely insensitive, but they said that again the rock was painted over.
Martin, I think what will be telling will be, will other campaigns like the Mitt Romney campaign reach out today and speak out on this issue and attack Rick Perry. It was a controversial weekend for him not only for that story but for his comments on maybe the possibility of sending U.S. troops into Mexico. Rick Perry definitely in the spotlight this morning -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Well, and this brings up the issue of -- you know with all these problems, could it mean that maybe Chris Christie might now change his mind, jump in?
STEINHAUSER: Yes. And you know a lot of speculation on whether he will be doing that. The latest chorus of calls for him to do that came after Perry stumbled in that presidential debate about a week and a half ago.
Reportedly, Christie advisers right now are huddling trying to figure out whether the New Jersey governor changes his mind and decides to run for the nomination. Is there enough time to start up a campaign to raise the money to get the teams together in the early states. All eyes are on Chris Christie this morning -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Indeed. All right. Paul Steinhauser, thank you very much.
We'll have your next political update in one hour. And a reminder for all of your latest political news, go to our Web site, CNNPolitics.com.
Well, coming up, President Obama's health care law is about to get a checkup of sorts. The Supreme Court will examine it to rule if it's constitutional. We'll take a closer look.
Plus, Prince Harry swoops into the U.S. for some flight training. We've got details on his military mission.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Checking stories right now "Cross Country."
A rocky night in the skies over Boston. As many as 18 people were injured when two different flights experienced extreme turbulence. Eleven of them were onboard a Lufthansa flight that was going from Charlotte to Munich. The other incident happened on a JetBlue flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico to Boston.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I actually saw the plane going, down, down, down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was so scary. I thought, my god, this could be it. But it didn't last that long, it was just -- it was quite a surprise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Speaking of surprises, in New Orleans, police are searching for the driver of this pickup truck. It slammed right through the main door of the district attorney's office. The driver ran off. Police are calling it a hit-and-run. But aren't quite sure of the motive.
And then people in Phillipsburg, Pennsylvania, woke up to the first snowflakes of the season. Up to one inch of snow was reported in some parts of the state. Snow in early October is rare, but apparently not unheard of. At least not there.
It is the first Monday in October, and that means a new term for the U.S. Supreme Court. Justices have several politically charged issues before them, including President Obama's health care law.
And CNN's Athena Jones explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Monday kicks off a new term for the Supreme Court. And health care tops the list of big issues the nine justices could take on. The Obama administration has asked the nation's highest court to rule on the constitutionality of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the health care overhaul signed into law last year.
Lawsuits brought by 28 states and dozens of individuals and groups have challenged the federal government's right to require people to purchase health insurance. The key provision in the law. Analysts say the court will almost certainly address this hot button issue this term. With a decision coming just months before the presidential election.
TOM GOLDSTEIN, SCOTUBLOG.COM FOUNDER: The law itself is obviously really important, whether you like it or not. It has tremendous consequences for President Obama's reelection because it's a signature achievement.
CARRIE SEVERINO, CHIEF COUNSEL, JUDICIAL CRISIS NETWORK: The politics of health care aside, this is a central issue. This could change the way the government and the people interact, you know, going forward in our country.
JONES: Among cases already on the court's docket, an electronic surveillance case that asks whether police can attach a GPS tracker to a suspect's car without a warrant. The essential question, do motorists have any right to privacy on public roads?
Another about whether prisons can subject people arrested even for minor offenses to suspicion strip searches. And the case about whether the Federal Communications Commission's indecency rules violate broadcast networks' free speech rights.
GOLDSTEIN: It seems inevitable this term that they're going to have to decide what the free speech rights of broadcasters are to put profanity and some nudity on the air.
JONES: Other politically charged issues that could come up include immigration, gay marriage, affirmative action, and abortion.
GOLDSTEIN: The Supreme Court so far term is shaping up to be pretty interesting, but it could become absolutely explosive and enthralling. It could be the most interesting one in the century.
JONES (on camera): Now there's one more important point to reiterate, Kyra, and that's that the Supreme Court only takes one out of every 10 cases that it's petitioned to review. And the justices haven't yet decided if they're going to tackle this health care overhaul. Still, nearly every legal analyst you speak with believes that the court is going to have to weigh into this debate. So it's going to be an interesting term here.
Athena Jones, CNN, at the Supreme Court.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: That is an understatement.
Well, coming up, the recession officially ended two years ago. But some economists are now raising the odds of another one. We'll go to the stock exchange for details.
Plus, the British are coming. Yes. Prince Harry himself leading the military charge. We'll tell you why. He is heading to Arizona.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: All right. Let's get you "Showbiz Headlines" update.
"Dolphin Tale" just soaked its box office competition. In its weekend out, the movie earned another $14 million bucks, bumped "Lion King" for the top spot down to number three.
Get this. Five years after its cancellation, possible new life for "Arrested Development." The creator with the cult favorite plans a short spinoff series. He says it will be a prequel of the long rumored "Arrested Development" movie.
And the end of the broadcast era, broadcasting. After more than 30 years, Andy Rooney hangs it up at "60 Minutes." In his final message, Rooney said that he's not totally retiring. He plans to keep writing. He also saved some time for his fans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY ROONEY, WRITER/COMMENTATOR: A lot of you have sent me wonderful letters and said good things to me when you meet me in the street. I wasn't always gracious about it. It's hard to accept being liked. I don't say this often, but thank you. Although if you do see me in a restaurant, please just let me eat my dinner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: And with that, Rooney wrapped up his 1,097th "60 Minutes" essay. Congratulations to him.
Prince Harry's deploying to the desert this week for military duty. But no, it's not Afghanistan. He's headed to Arizona.
Max Foster is here to explain.
Max, what's going on?
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, he's heading there this week as I understand it, Martin. It's the military training exercise. He is training -- it's the final part of his training to fly the Apache helicopter, which is a pretty mean machines. They've got missiles on them and machine guns. And he's going to fire a live missile for the first time.
He is there for about two months in Gila Bend. But he's also going to spend some time in El Centro in California. We're told no media access to him.
These images are of him when he was in Afghanistan in 2008. And we got these images after he returned. We expect the same sort of thing to happen again.
So, there are photographers heading that way, I can tell you, Martin. People are hanging out in Las Vegas, hoping the party prince will show his true colors. He's famous for enjoying the odd drink. But certainly, palace sources are saying it's all work, work, work while he's there, Martin.
SAVIDGE: I'm sure it is.
All right, Max. Now, I know you are not one to brag, but I do have hear you've got a very invitation this morning.
FOSTER: Well, as you ask, Martin, I received this today. It's an invitation from the queen no less. In fact, it's being commanded by the queen. The master of the household has received her majesty's command to invite me to a reception.
It's part, Martin, of a buildup to the diamond jubilee celebrations next year. She's been on the throne, the queen, for 60 years. And there's going to be lots of pomp and ceremony next year. You can expect to see a bit of what we saw with the royal wedding really this year. And lots of celebrations, a buildup to that.
So, next summer, expect to see lots of parties here in the U.K. I'll get you details after the event.
SAVIDGE: All right. Look forward to that, Max.
You know, I got an invite to Burger King. That's the only royalty here in this country.
All right. Thanks very much, Max. We'll be back in touch.
Alison Kosik is at the New York Stock Exchange where there is talk of another recession. And that talk is unfortunately hitting up.
Alison, what are you hearing?
KOSIK: You know, it's interesting -- we hear something new almost every week, Martin.
And, today, Fitch Ratings has cut its global economic forecast for growth, saying even emerging markets are slowing right along with the U.S. and Europe, because what we're seeing happen here is volatility in the financial markets has intensified. And you know what? There's much not confidence that we have in government and policymakers at this point.
Now, Fitch doesn't expect a double-dip reception, but it does say the likelihood has increased.
But we did speak with Lakshman Achuthan from the Economic Cycle Research Institute, and he says, you know what? We're there. We're in a recession, or we're about to be in one.
He was on AMERICAN MORNING today. Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAKSHMAN ACHUTHAN, MANAGING DIR., ECONOMIC CYCLE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: In this case, we have a conceptual underpinning of how recessions and recoveries take place in this country. In a market economy, recessions are part and parcel of a market economy. So, we're not going to get away from them.
And looking at the facts, we see that the forward-looking indicators, not one, not two, dozens of leading indexes, are falling. There's contagion among those indexes. They are falling in a way that we only see when a recession is underway.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSIK: And he says, basically, what's happening with the economy right now is just there are too many negative factors weighing on it. We got home prices extremely low. No jobs were created in August. Manufacturing is slowing. Economists expect Greece to run out of money this month.
Now, Achuthan does say, along with others, that if we are in a recession or headed for one, it would not be as bad as 2008. It would be more mild.
On cusp of hearing this, we've go U.S. markets looking like they're going to open lower today. That is going to follow what overseas markets did, they are down 1 percent to 4 percent today -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: All right, Alison. We'll watch the markets with you. Thanks very much.
We are waiting to hear about Amanda Knox and her fate at any time. A jury could overturn her murder verdict or give her more prison time.
And taking out al-Awlaki -- a big win on the war on terror. But was it legal? We will talk about the legality of targeting U.S. citizens overseas after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Checking top stories right now:
The second week of testimony in the involuntary manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray starts this morning. Jurors will hear from two emergency room doctors who tried to revive Michael Jackson.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta is in the Middle East. He's urging Israeli and Palestinian leaders to restart peace talks. Panetta says that Israel has to improve its relationship with other countries in the region.
And American Bruce Beutler is one of three men sharing this year's Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine. The three were honored for their discoveries on how the immune system works.
Right now, Amanda Knox's -- her fate that is -- is in the hands of an Italian jury. She is the American student who was tried and convicted of killing a roommate. Knox has always maintained his innocence, and today she finds out if the jury believes her.
Here's what she told them earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA KNOX, DEFENDANT (through translator): I want to go back home. I want to go back to my life. I don't want to be punished -- to have my life, my future, taken away from me for things that I haven't committed, because I am innocent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Now, Knox could go free or she could go back to prison for a stiffer sentence. Today is the culmination of four years of denials by Knox and her co-defendant.
CNN's Drew Griffin shows us how Knox got to this point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American Amanda Knox was intent on spending her junior year of college studying abroad, an adventure of sorts which would land the 20-year-old in the picturesque Italian town of Perugia. It was late summer 2007. Knox had moved in this house with three other girls. One was British-born Meredith Kercher.
Knox settled in, took classes at the local university, got a part-time job and even found a new boyfriend, 23-year-old Raffaele Sollecito.
The adventure soon became a nightmare. On the night of November 1st, 2007, Knox's roommate, Meredith Kercher, was sexual assaulted and left for dead in the home that the girls shared. As police searched for clues, Knox had originally told them she spent the night at her boyfriend's place. But just four days later, November 5th, 2007, Amanda Knox changed her story.
After hours of interrogation, Knox confessed to being in the home the night Kercher died, adding that her boss, a Congolese immigrant named Patrick Lumumba was there as well. Kercher was killed, according to one theory, after refusing to take part in a group sex game.
November 6, 2007, Amanda and her boyfriend were arrested, so was Lumumba, but he had a solid alibi and was released. The case became a media sensation across Europe and in Seattle, Knox's hometown. The tabloids labeling her "Foxy Knoxy."
November 19th, 2007, police identify yet another suspect. Twenty-year-old Rudy Guede, an immigrant from the Ivory Coast who appeared to be on the run. He was caught in Germany the next day. One month later, he was charged with Kercher's murder.
October of 2008. Guede was found guilty, sentenced to 30 years. His lawyers would get it down to 16 years on appeal. He had claimed Amanda Knox and her former lover were with him. But their trial wouldn't begin until January 16th, 2009. Throughout, both insisted they were innocent. The court didn't believe them.
And on December 5th, 2009, Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were convicted of killing and sexually assaulting Meredith Kercher. Knox got 26 years in prison, Sollecito, slightly less.
November 2010, Knox and Sollecito begins the long road to appeal -- all the while remaining in jail and defiant.
Drew Griffin, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And we continue to wait out that verdict. When it comes, we will, of course, bring it to you.
In the meantime, onwards. When the president comes to town, people swarm, roads close, traffic stands still. But if you're staying in your hotel, get ready to be frisked, screened and searched.
Somebody who knows that, Bob Greene -- he is an author and CNN contributor who ended up at the same hotel as the president on a recent trip to New York, and he wrote an article for CNN.com called, "Barack Obama Slept Here."
So, Bob, thanks for joining us this morning. What was it like moving around your hotel while the president was there?
BOB GREENE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, we all know exactly how stringent security has gotten. But it's not until you somehow by coincidence encounter it up close that you realize that the bubble we always talk about the president traveling in has really turned into a sort of multicity block bunker.
I mean, from every aspect of it, every block around the hotel is shut off, guests coming in and out, coming in have to their bags taken outside behind barricades and put through special screening devices. There are literally Secret Service war wagons -- you can't call them anything else -- parked on streets right next to the hotel with no other traffic.
And it makes you stop and think about what we've gotten used to, the president, by necessity, of course, having to travel in this kind of security, is a real change from the days -- remember there used to be that old phrase, George Washington slept here"?
SAVIDGE: Yes.
GREENE: And it spoke really of the early days of the country, when the president would by happenstance come by and stay at a country inn or a lodge. It's just how dramatically things because of terrorism and because of the violent history in this country have changed.
SAVIDGE: Well, back -- you know, back in the days of the Lincoln White House, you could walk into the White House. It was literally the people's house. You could have gone there.
But, anyway, you talked to a cabdriver who vented about Obama traffic. What is that?
GREENE: Well, that's what the cab -- that's the second time I've heard that in New York on trips where the president happened to be there. And, of course, no president in office -- I mean, it was George W. Bush before him, it's not their fault that this is going on. Yet it -- as you mentioned, there was a time in this country when presidents rode through the cities to meet people in open convertibles. And then President Kennedy went to Dallas.
There was a time when presidents and presidential candidates assumed that you could walk at least into their place where they are making a speech or the place where they are staying and be relatively safe. And then Robert Kennedy walked through that kitchen in Los Angeles. A president would like to be able to talk to people on the sidewalk. But Ronald Reagan walked out on the wrong day onto the wrong sidewalk.
So I think the presidents would love for it not to be this way. And I think the people who would like to meet their presidents and be close to them would like for it not to be this way. And it's neither the people's fault nor the president's fault, but it's not going to get any better.
SAVIDGE: No, it's not, unfortunately.
Bob Greene, by the way, you can check out Bob Greene's article "Barack Obama Slept Here" at CNN.com/opinion. Thank you very much for joining us.
All right. Taking out al-Awlaki -- I have trouble with that name -- a big win in the war on terror. But was it legal? We will talk about the legality of targeting U.S. citizens overseas right after this break.
Plus, jurors in the Dr. Conrad Murray trial today hear from doctors who tried to save Michael Jackson's life. We'll get you up to speed on that trial.
Ten minutes from now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Now to the decision to kill American-born radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. I told you I had trouble with that name.
It's controversial because it involves killing a U.S. citizen overseas. Many are endorsing the move, including former Vice President Dick Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I think the president ought to have that authority to order that kind of strike, even when it involves an American citizen and there's clear evidence that he is part of al Qaeda -- planning and cooperating and supporting attacks against the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Not everyone agrees, though. Ron Paul condemned the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RON PAUL (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If the American people accept this blindly and casually, we now have an accepted practice of the president assassinating people who he thinks are bad guys. I think it's sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: CNN contributors Will Cain and LZ Granderson join me now.
And, you know, I think a lot of Americans probably agree with taking out this particular person. However, we have that pesky thing called the Constitution.
LZ, what about the Constitution? What about due process?
LZ GRANDERSON, CNN.COM CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, that is definitely some questions of morality and legality that I think that the American citizens are going to have to check for themselves. I don't think we'll ever see a trial because of this murder. But I think that each individual citizen who really prides themselves on what the Constitution stands for, he's to ask themselves a question -- if what the United States did, if what President Obama OK, is it ok in the eyes of law. And for me, it wasn't ok in the eyes of the law. But I'm not going to stand here and say that it shouldn't have been done at the same time.
SAVIDGE: Will, even Nazi war criminals got their day in court. So didn't al-Awlaki deserve the right to a fair trial, to be judged by a jury?
WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Martin, I'm conflicted on this. I think legally, the Obama administration was probably in the right here. The Constitution does say that no person, no American citizen, will be deprived of life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness, without due process.
That's the Fifth Amendment. But the courts, the Constitution, and statutes have all imbued the president with broad war-making authority, including the ability to execute American citizens in times of war. In the '40s, Nazi saboteurs, some of which included American citizens, were captured and FDRE executed these guys after a military tribunal but executed them in three weeks.
I think here we have more difficult questions to answer about the war on terror because of this assassination.
SAVIGE: Such as? I mean, quickly, what do you think those are?
CAIN: Well, if we're going to give the president broad war making powers that include the assassination of American citizens during war, then we need to define what is the war on terror, where is the battlefield, how does someone become a member of the enemy, and what includes fighting.
By all accounts, al-Awlaki was, you know, a propagandist in Yemen, and he was met by a judge, jury, executioner from drone because of these actions. Now, maybe he went on to become an operational person, but that's the kind of thing we find out in trials, Martin. I don't know what al-Awlaki was doing. I'm having to trust the president on this.
SAVIDGE: Do you think this sets a very difficult precedent?
GRANDERSON: Well, you know, I was going to say to Will, you know, what was propaganda during World War I and World War II is totally different than what is consider propaganda now, because of the age of technology.
So I do agree that we need to re-assess this war on terror. But we can't underestimate the power of technology and how that is being weaponized now. And in my eyes, he may not have been holding a gun, but if you're using technology in the manner in which he was, that to me was a deadly weapon. And I don't think it set a strange precedent. I think it just forces us to look the world today and how we engage each other today. Because it's totally different than earlier wartimes.
CAIN: Martin, if I may, and my only point is here. We have given the president a very broad power to assassinate and execute American citizens. And what we ventured into this power in a very gray area -- what is the war, what counts as fighting with the enemy.
And my only point is we need to answer these questions, because it's not -- it may sound immature or hypothetical. But, look, when the commerce clause was used to have a daylight to give the federal government power in the 1930s, did we think 50 years later, the government would use it to force us to buy a certain product?
My point is 50 years from now, with the president with such broad authority for national security, are we comfortable to where this can lead? I'm not worried about al-Awlaki. I'm worried about the precedent and where this will be in 50 years.
SAVIDGE: All right. We're going to leave there. Will Cain, thank you very much. LZ Granderson, like the two of you, I am also conflicted. We'll debate this more, next.
The CIA meanwhile is defending the strike that took out al- Awlaki. Director Leon Panetta says that al-Awlaki's actions outweighed any qualms about his U.S. citizenship. Here is Panetta talking exclusively by the way with CNN's newest anchor, host of "OUTFRONT" -- Erin Burnett.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON PANETTA, CIA DIRECTOR: This individual was clearly a terrorist. And, yes, he was a citizen. But if you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. And that means that we have the ability to go after those who would threaten to attack the United States and kill Americans. There's no question that the authority and the ability to go after a terrorist is there.
SAVIDGE: You can see the rest of Erin Burnett's exclusive interview with Leon Panetta tonight with her new show "OUTFRONT" premieres at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
Doctors from the ER will testify about how they tried to save Michael Jackson's life. But before Dr. Conrad Murray's trial resumes, you'll hear what a paramedic said about Jackson's last moments, next.
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SAVIDGE: Checking stories cross country.
A 9-year-old boy is in critical but stable condition after a bad car wreck in Philadelphia. Ok, here is the twist. He was driving. It seems he took his parent's car out for a joyride. It's not clear how far he travelled before crashing.
A Massachusetts church at the center of a controversy has been sold, but Catholic parishioners want the Vatican to block the deal. Officially saying, Jeremiah's was closed by the archdiocese back in 2005, the congregation refused to go, and has been holding a vigil there ever since.
And an unusual fundraiser at Rhode Island's airport. Check out their fifth annual MS Jet Pull. Teams of 25 took turns trying to move a Boeing 727, all 90 tons of it. The event raises money for multiple sclerosis research.
Emergency room doctors who tried to revive Michael Jackson will testify when Dr. Conrad Murray's manslaughter trial resumes this morning. The doctors' testimony comes after a paramedic describes Murray as being frantic at Jackson's bedside.
CNN's Randi Kaye reports.
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RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Paramedic Richard Senneff arrived at Michael Jackson's home hoping to save a life. He needed to know how long Jackson hadn't been breathing and what, if anything, he'd been taking.
DEBORAH BRAZIL, PROSECUTOR: Did you ask Dr. Murray how long the patient had been in this condition or how long the patient had been down?
RICHARD SENNEFF, PARAMEDIC: I did ask him that.
BRAZIL: What did Dr. Murray say in response to that question?
SENNEFF: "It just happened right when I called you."
BRAZIL: And in your, mind, what did that mean?
SENNEFF: It meant to me that this was a patient that was -- somebody we had a really good chance of saving.
KAYE: True, if paramedics had the real story. Instead, Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, told half truths.
BRAZIL: What observations specifically did you make that led you to feel as if there was inconsistent information that you had received?
SENNEFF: When I first moved the patient, his skin was very cool to the touch. When we -- I took a first glance at him, his eyes were open. They were dry. And his pupils were dilated. When I hooked up the EKG machine, it was a flat line.
KAYE: No heartbeat, and skin cool to the touch, told paramedics more than just the five minutes it took them to arrive had passed. Senneff says Murray was frantic.
SENNEFF: I asked what his underlying health condition was. He did not respond. I asked again what his underlying health condition was. He did not respond. And then he -- I think it was the third time, he said "Nothing. Nothing. He has nothing." And simply that did not add up to me.
KAYE: Here's something else that didn't add up. Senneff says that Jackson appeared thin, underweight. He also noticed an IV stand in the bedroom, an oxygen tank and medications on the night stand. Senneff asked Murray what drugs Jackson had taken.
SENNEFF: At that point, he said, "No, he's not taking anything." And then he followed that up with, "I just gave him a little bit of Lorazepam to sleep."
BRAZIL: Did you follow up with, "Anything else, Dr. Murray, are you giving him or did you give him anything else?"
SENNEFF: I asked, "Was there anything else? Is there anything else." And "No, that's it. Just a little bit of Lorazepam."
KAYE: Paramedics would not learn later that wasn't true. Dr. Murray had also given him Propofol, which the coroner says caused his death.
BRAZIL: Did Dr. Murray ever mention to you having administered Propofol to Michael Jackson?
SENNEFF: No, he did not.
BRAZIL: Did Conrad Murray ever mention the word "Propofol" to you during the time that you were at the location or in his presence?
SENNEFF: No, he did not.
KAYE: The defense tried to ask if that would have made a difference.
NAREG GOURJIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Isn't it true that you would have done absolutely nothing different because you could not had Dr. Murray even mentioned the Propofol?
BRAZIL: Objection, lack of foundation. Calls for speculation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustained.
KAYE: Senneff says he saw no change in Jackson's condition from the time he got to the scene. At 12:57, more than 30 minutes after they arrived, emergency responders wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there's nothing further, we are -- we're going to call it here. And -- and time of death is 12:57.
KAYE: But Senneff says Murray insisted Jackson be transported to the hospital and not declared dead. After loading him into the ambulance Senneff says he went back inside to find Murray in the bedroom.
BRAZIL: Describe for me what you see Dr. Murray doing when you returned to the bedroom?
SENNEFF: He has a bag in hand, and he is picking up items from the floor.
BRAZIL: Where is he located when you see him with the bag in his hand picking up items from the floor?
SENNEFF: Near the nightstand.
BRAZIL: On the far side of the bed?
SENNEFF: On far side of the bed.
KAYE: The defense warned against jumping to conclusions.
GOURJIAN: Did you see what Dr. Murray was, in fact, picking up?
SENNEFF: I did not. GOURJIAN: Ok. Isn't it true he was picking up his wallet and glasses.
SENNEFF: I don't know, sir. The -- the bed was blocking right where his hands were.
KAYE: Jackson was transported to the hospital with Dr. Conrad Murray in the ambulance at his side. He was pronounced dead upon arrival.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And testimony in the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray resumes two hours from now. Turn to our sister network, HLN for expert coverage throughout the day.
The Detroit Lions and the San Francisco 49ers have huge comebacks. I will be reading the sports in seven minutes. Roll those DVRs.
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SAVIDGE: All right. Stories making news later today.
President Obama meets with his cabinet a little over an hour from now.
And President George W. Bush marks progress on his presidential library in Dallas. Reporters will take a hard hat tour before the former president speaks at 11:30 Eastern.
And 3:00 p.m. Eastern, Rezwan Ferdaus (ph) the man accused the plotting the attacks on the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol has a detention hearing.
We are following lots of developments in the news next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. Let's check in first now with Paula Newton.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm in front of the Italian prison where Amanda Knox waits for that crucial wording -- ruling which will decide where she spends the rest of her life. Coming up next.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands at the Criminal Courts building in downtown Los Angeles. An emergency room physician will be on the stand when testimony resumes in the Dr. Conrad Murray trial. We'll have a preview coming up at the top of the hour.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange where hundreds of Wall Street protesters were arrested this weekend. But no, no, that's not slowing them down. In fact, "Occupy Wall Street" is spreading to other cities. I'll have details in the next hour, Martin. SAVIDGE: All right, thank you all.
Also next hour, a hard look at our mobile society. How connected is too connected? We'll go in depth with a tech veteran.
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SAVIDGE: The Detroit Lions were down, get this, 27-3 to Dallas, and they came back to win. Lion's receiver Calvin Johnson makes a fantastic catch between three defenders for one score. There it is. Detroit also picked up two Tony Romo passes for touchdowns. And the Lions win 34-30. They tie the NFL record for biggest road comeback win ever.
If the Lions are unbeaten, so are the Packers. Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers had a career day on Sunday. He passed for four touchdowns and rushed for two more. The Packers rolled over the Broncos 49-23.
Michael Vick is trying to lead the Eagles back after they blew a 20-point lead. Vick's pass to Jeremy McLynn is complete, but the 49ers Justin Smith strips the ball, and San Francisco steals the game, 24-23.
And the Chicago Bears, Devin Hester placed his name in the record books. Hester took a second quarter punt against Carolina and returned it 69 yards for the score. It's Hester's 11th career punt return for a touchdown that's topping the NFL's all-time list. And the Bears won that game 34-29.
And a quick check of baseball, the playoffs. The Tigers beat the Yankees -- say it again -- the Tigers beat the Yankees 5-3, that series is now tied at 1. The Brewers beat the Diamondbacks 9-4. Milwaukee leads that series 2-0. And the Cardinals tied their series with the Phillies winning 5-4. We'll have highlights of the games coming up next hour.
