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Knox Appeal Now in Jury's Hand; Day Five of Conrad Murray Trial; 'Occupy Wall Street' Protests; Jury Deciding Amanda Knox's Fate; War on Workers; South Carolina's Primary; Supreme Court Begins New Term
Aired October 03, 2011 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Live from Studio 7, I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Want to get you up to speed for Monday, October 3rd.
An Italian jury could come back any time now with a verdict in Amanda Knox's murder appeal. A court convicted the American college student and her boyfriend in the slashing death of her roommate. Well, experts testified during the appeal that DNA evidence had been contaminated. Knox, speaking in Italian, pleaded for freedom today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA KNOX, DEFENDANT (through translator): I haven't done the things that they are suggesting that I've done. I haven't murdered, I haven't raped, I haven't stolen. I wasn't there. I wasn't present in that crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Prosecutors painted Knox as a demonic figure who killed for the thrill. They have described the murder as part satanic ritual, part orgy.
The manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray enters a second week. That's in about 45 minutes. That's the Michael Jackson trial.
The emergency room doctor who pronounced Michael Jackson dead is expected on the witness stand first. Dr. Richelle Cooper says that Murray never told her that he had given Jackson the anesthesia that allegedly killed him.
Murray's three girlfriends are expected to testify as well. Phone records show that he talked to all three in the minutes before and after Jackson went into cardiac arrest.
Protests by the group Occupy Wall Street have spread from New York City to at least three other major cities. Police arrested more than 700 protesters on Saturday when they marched on the Brooklyn Bridge. Occupy Wall Street, that group says it wants to draw attention to corporate greed and immorality, among other issues.
Well, this is a bumpy ride over the East Coast. Two planes landed in Boston -- that happened last night -- after turbulence knocked the passengers around. Eleven people got hurt on a Lufthansa jet that was headed for Munich. The other plane, a JetBlue flight from Puerto Rico, dipped suddenly over the Bermuda Triangle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I saw the plane go down, down, down. I said, "Oh, my God. Oh my God."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it was so scary. I thought, my God, this could be it. But it didn't last that long. It was quite a surprise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Most of the injured have back or neck sprains. One passenger got burned by hot coffee. It could have been a lot worse.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, well, he's in Israel today delivering a tough message. Panetta says that Israel needs to get along better with Turkey and Egypt. Otherwise, he warns that Israel is going to find itself isolated in the Middle East. The secretary also wants Israelis and Palestinians to reopen peace talks without conditions.
Well, a deathbed interview with the Lockerbie bomber. Abdel al- Megrahi tells Reuters his role in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 has been exaggerated. Scotland freed al-Megrahi, as you'll recall, two years ago because he was thought to be near death from cancer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDEL BASSET AL-MEGRAHI (through translator): Please leave me alone. I only have a few more days, weeks, or months.
I want to die in my house among my family. I wish from God that I will see my country united with no fighting or war. I hope the bloodshed will stop in Libya.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: CNN's Nic Robertson found al-Megrahi at his Tripoli villa. That was just back in August. He appeared to be in a coma at that time, but he has obviously regained consciousness
Well, Sunday night is not going to be the same without at least one complaint by Andy Rooney. The "60 Minutes" commentator signed off last night after 33 years and -- get this -- 1,097 essays.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY ROONEY, "60 MINUTES": A lot of you have sent me wonderful letters and said good things to me when you meet me in the street. I wasn't always gracious about it. It's hard to accept being liked.
I don't say this often, but thank you. Although, if you do see me in a restaurant, please, just let me eat my dinner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: OK. We'll let him eat his dinner.
Rooney leaves his job. He's 92 years old. His "60 Minutes" colleague, Morley Safer, who is just three years younger, calls Rooney America's "Grump-in-Chief." He did complain a bit.
More details now on our lead story. It's a legal and emotional cliffhanger. It's playing out in a courthouse in Italy right now.
A jury is deciding the fate of American exchange student Amanda Knox. Knox was convicted of murder and is now appealing her conviction. Jurors are considering whether or not to set her free, send her back to prison. Those are the options.
Earlier today, Knox broke down in tears after pleading with the jury.
CNN Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance, he was inside the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, there she is, Amanda Knox, being escorted into this Perugia courtroom looking nervous and stressed as she prepares for what must be the biggest speech of her life. Fifteen minutes is what she gets to stand in front of this court and, in her own words, try to convince the judges and the jury that she did not kill Meredith Kercher and that they should set her free.
Then, at times choking through her tears and in fluent Italian, Knox delivered her emotional plea.
KNOX (through translator): I am not what they say I am -- perverse, violent. I respect life and people, and I haven't done the things that they are suggesting I've done.
I haven't murdered. I haven't raped. I haven't stolen. I wasn't there. I wasn't present at the crime.
CHANCE: Her former boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, himself serving a 25-year sentence, also faced the court, begging them for freedom.
RAFFAELE SOLLECITO, DEFENDANT (through translator): I've never hurt anybody in my life. The charges against me for all these years are so out of character, that I've always thought that everything would be cleared up, but that didn't happen.
CHANCE (on camera): I know you're about to enter a media blitz, but how do you think --
(voice-over): Afterwards, outside the court, neither family would comment. The parents of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, tight-lipped, as the jury in this gripping case decides their fate. (END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Well, Matthew joins us from Italy.
Matthew, walk us through the possible decisions that this jury could reach today. We're talking within just a few hours the fate of Amanda Knox.
CHANCE: Yes. Well, at least within the next three hours we're expecting some kind of movement in the court. The jury is still deliberating what their decision will be.
But yes, I mean, what we're talking about clearly, first of all, is the possibility that Amanda Knox will have her murder conviction, along with Raffaele Sollecito, quashed by this jury and that she'll be free to go. It's not the only possibility.
Of course, the judge and jury could decide to uphold the first trial's decision and keep them in prison to serve out their 26-and-25- year sentences. The prosecution have asked for an increase in the sentences as well to life imprisonment.
And so, apart from those options, there's a whole gamut of other possibilities on the table as well -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: And Matthew, what do we know about the jurors?
CHANCE: Well, they're mainly women. There's five women and there's three men. Two of those men are actually professional judges, which is a requirement of jurors here in Italy.
They were listening extremely intently over the course of the past few hours in court, listening to Amanda Knox with that extremely emotional plea. It must have had a big impact on them, because, first of all, she were speaking fluent Italian. The years that she spent in prison clearly improving her language skills, and so she was able to connect directly with them.
She was also very emotional. At times she broke down in tears, and the judge said that she could sit down if she wanted, but she didn't. She composed herself. It was a very emotional episode, a very emotional experience in that court.
And I expect the hope is on the Amanda Knox side that will be enough to help convince the jury, along with the evidence that's been put out there, that she's not guilty of killing Meredith Kercher.
MALVEAUX: All right.
Matthew Chance will be following this story as it unfolds.
Thank you, Matthew.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MALVEAUX: So what happened the day Michael Jackson died? We could learn a lot more today. This is day five of testimony in the trial of Jackson's personal doctor, and it's about to get under way.
Our Ted Rowlands, he is outside the courthouse in Los Angeles.
Ted, who do we expect to take the stand today?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, when testimony resumes, Dr. Richelle Cooper will be on the stand. This is one of the emergency room doctors at UCLA Medical Center. And what she will testify to, as she did in the preliminary hearing, is that they asked Dr. Murray, when Michael Jackson came in, "What did you give him? What did you give him?" And he never mentioned Propofol.
MALVEAUX: And we can see live pictures here. We see Janet Jackson, and I believe that's Randy that's beside her. They are walking into the courthouse now.
Ted, they have been attending every day of the trial. Have we seen a change in their demeanor as the testimony has evolved?
ROWLANDS: Well, absolutely. During those emotional parts of the trial, you can see it in the family's faces, in their actions.
Katherine Jackson has been a mainstay throughout this trial. She will not be here for the next week and a half because she is in Europe with the Jackson children. But as you see, Janet and Randy arriving at the courthouse now.
And the Jacksons have been here every single day so far. And sitting in that courtroom, it's easy to notice that the jury is well aware of their presence.
MALVEAUX: And we noticed they were quite composed as they walked in. What are the crowds shouting? We saw people with signs.
What is it like out there?
ROWLANDS: It's a bit chaotic. The bulk of the people are Michael Jackson fans, if you will, and they chant, "Justice for Michael!" every time someone comes in.
A lot of lookie loos. People actually from around the world have come by the courthouse here. A bit of a zoo, but what you might expect.
MALVEAUX: All right. Ted, we'll get back to you as that testimony gets under way. Thank you, Ted.
Well, demonstrators say that they want to occupy Wall Street. So what's their beef? We are live at the New York Stock Exchange to find out what is really going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MALVEAUX: CNNMoney.com's lead story, "Tax Hikes and Jobs." The whole story -- this here, "Raise taxes on the rich, you'll put the nation's job creators at risk." There is more on that. "Tax the Rich," as you see the sign there.
Also taking a look at the stock markets, the Dow Jones down by 31 points or so. Keeping a close eye on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And in New York this weekend, Main Street marched on Wall Street. More than 700 people linked to the Occupy Wall Street protests were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge. But, instead of backing down, organizers say that this movement is spreading across the country.
Alison Kosik, she's live at the New York Stock Exchange.
And Alison, you know, there's some people who expected that the protests would fizzle out, but they're now gaining strength and they're spreading across the country.
What's going on?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, yes.
And when you say it's spreading across the country, big cities like Chicago and Seattle and L.A., that's where these sort of Occupy Wall Street-like protests are spreading. And it seems like they became more empowered after those arrests here in New York, when hundreds marched on the Brooklyn Bridge, essentially shutting down the bridge to traffic for a few hours.
These people were either ticketed or arrested. And then, when they got out of lockup, they went right back to what they wanted to do in the first place, is hold their signs a few blocks from where I'm standing, here at the New York Stock Exchange, at a park here in the financial district.
So, really, not much is letting -- they're not sort of slowing down anytime soon from what I can see -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: And Alison, I understand this is a group that's kind of a bit disorganized, to say the least. It's not clear who is actually participating.
But tell us who is behind these protests. And really, what are they protesting? What's the main point here, if there is one?
KOSIK: That's a really good question. You know, they're protesting just a whole list of things. It's pretty much you name it -- you know, corruption. They think that our political and economic systems are broken.
You know, there really isn't one clear leader with Occupy Wall Street. What you're seeing is a lot of people coming even from across the country to come right here to New York to protest, and just protest their frustrations.
So, day after day, they're standing out there holding signs, hoping that someone will listen. But no, there is no cohesive message this point. But, you name it, corporate greed, everything in between, they even want a four-day work week, but they're pretty much blaming Wall Street for all of the ills facing the U.S. at this point -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Well, all of us would love a four-day work week. But it's fascinating what is taking place down there.
KOSIK: I hear you.
MALVEAUX: We're obviously going to be following that.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
MALVEAUX: All right. Alison, thank you. Appreciate it.
Here's your chance to "Choose the News." Text "22360" for the story that you'd like to see.
Text "1" for "Mandela Reality Show." Some of Nelson Mandela's grandchildren star in a new TV reality show about their lives. We're going to have a sneak peek behind the scenes and ask them what they think of the criticism, that they could be ruining their grandfather's image.
Text "2" for learn more about a new "Baby-Saving Device." It acts just like an incubator, but it's portable, costs a fraction of the price. We're going to show you how it's already saving lives in India.
Or text "3" for "Bartering is Hot." With the economy is such bad shape, more and more people are bartering for the goods that they need and want. And it's not always in person. We're going to show you some of the Web sites that are being used.
So, you can vote by texting "22360." Text "1" for "Mandela Reality Show"; "2" for "Baby-Saving Device"; or "3" for "Bartering is Hot."
The winning story is going to air in the next hour.
So, DNA found on a knife and a bra. Attorneys for Amanda Knox say the evidence was contaminated and unreliable. While a jury decides Knox's fate, we're going to talk with a DNA expert about the case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MALVEAUX: Well, for the second time in almost four years, the fate of American exchange student Amanda Knox is in the hands of an Italian jury. Right now a panel of five women and three men is deciding whether to overturn her murder conviction.
Knox and her boyfriend were convicted of killing her roommate, but the defense says that the two are innocent and the DNA evidence was unreliable and contaminated. Now, while the jury considers how the case ends, Drew Griffin takes a look at how it all started.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American Amanda Knox was intent on spending her junior year of college studying abroad, an adventure of sorts which would land the 20-year-old in the picturesque Italian town of Perugia. It was late summer, 2007.
Knox had moved in this house with three other girls. One was British-born Meredith Kercher. Knox settled in, took classes at the local university, got a part-time job, and even found a new boyfriend, 23-year-old Raffaele Sollecito.
The adventure soon became a nightmare.
On the night of November 1, 2007, Knox's roommate, Meredith Kercher, was sexually assaulted, throat slashed, and left for dead in the home the girls shared. As police searched for clues, Knox originally told them she had spent the night at her boyfriend's place. But just four days later, November 5, 2007, Amanda Knox changed her story.
After hours of interrogation, Knox confessed to being in the home the night Kercher died, adding that her boss, a Congolese immigrant named Patrick Lumumba, was there as well. Kercher was killed, according to one theory, after refusing to take part in a group sex game.
November 6, 2007, Amanda and her boyfriend were arrested. So was Lumumba, but had a solid alibi and was released.
The case became a media sensation across Europe and in Seattle, Knox's hometown. The tabloids labeling her "Foxy Knoxy."
November 19, 2007, police identify yet another suspect, 20-year- old Rudy Guede, an immigrant from the Ivory Coast who appeared to be on the run. He was caught in Germany the next day. One month later, he was charged with Kercher's murder.
October of 2008, Guede was found guilty, sentenced to 30 years. His lawyers would get it down to 16 years on appeal. He had claimed Amanda Knox and her former lover were with him, but their trial wouldn't begin until January 16, 2009.
Throughout, both insisted they were innocent. The court didn't believe them. And on December 5, 2009, Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were convicted of killing and sexually assaulting Meredith Kercher. Knox got 26 years in prison. Sollecito, slightly less.
November, 2010, Knox and Sollecito begin the long road to appeal, all the while remaining in jail and defiant.
Drew Griffin, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: So the appeal of Amanda Knox's murder conviction focuses mostly on the DNA evidence, or what the defense says is a lack of evidence.
Joining us to talk about that is Greg Hampikian. He is a DNA expert and professor of biology and criminal justice at Boise State University. He's also director of the Idaho Innocence Project.
And Greg, you were also involved in gathering the evidence to support Amanda Knox's appeal, because, essentially, you contend that there is not enough DNA evidence to link her and the boyfriend to this murder.
GREG HAMPIKIAN, DNA EXPERT: Yes. I'd say that there is no physical evidence whatsoever to link either Amanda or Raffaele Sollecito to the murder.
And more importantly, the day of the murder was committed, the Italian police went in, took a lot of evidence. And unfortunately, they arrested Amanda and her boyfriend, Raffaele, before allowing the DNA to be processed. All of that evidence taken from where the victim was killed, the day she was killed, all of the DNA points to one man, Rudy Guede.
MALVEAUX: How do you explain that there was some DNA evidence on that knife? The prosecution says there was DNA evidence on the knife from Amanda Knox, and that it was also on this bra strap.
HAMPIKIAN: Yes. So, the knife is found at Amanda's boyfriend's apartment a few blocks away. And no one can say why that knife was taken out of his kitchen drawer by the police.
They took it, and they found, as expected, Amanda on the handle. She'd been over that night, and then claims -- the police lab claimed to have found some DNA from the victim, Meredith Kercher, on the blade. And on its face that sounds like important evidence.
MALVEAUX: Right, sure.
HAMPIKIAN: But when you look at the DNA that they claim is from Meredith Kercher, it is such a low level that it's below the detection level that my lab, that the FBI, that any lab I know of uses. It's at a level that we don't look at on purpose because we haven't validated it. And if you look at very, very low levels of DNA -- you know, we shook hands. Your DNA is on my hand. If I touch this cup, my DNA and your DNA could end up on that cup or it could just your cells that leave my finger because they were there last and they're loose.
So we purposely set those levels through a very tough validation process at a certain level that we do not look below, the FBI does not look below. And in this case they kept looking lower and lower and lower and lower until they found this evidence, which I think is just spurious.
And the experts appointed by the judge, independent experts, in this appeal process --
MALVEAUX: Right.
HAMPIKIAN: He chose his own two people from Rome. I don't know them. I know their work.
MALVEAUX: All right.
HAMPIKIAN: And they agreed with everything we said.
MALVEAUX: OK.
HAMPIKIAN: So -- and they found potato starch on the blade. They said this is a cooking implement, not a murder weapon. No blood.
MALVEAUX: All right. Greg, thank you very much. We appreciate that. We'll see if the -- whether or not the jury agrees with that -- the evidence or lack thereof as you say regarding DNA. Thank you very much.
HAMPIKIAN: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: We're going to be following this very closely throughout the afternoon.
Also want to go now turn the corner, if we can, to President Obama. He was just -- made a statement at the White House. This is regarding jobs and the economy.
I want you to take a listen here.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ultimately, we still have to have congressional action. It's been several weeks now since I sent up the American Jobs Act, and as I've been saying on the road, I want it back. I'm ready to sign it.
And so my expectation is that now that we're in the month of October that we will schedule a vote before the end of this month. I'll be talking to Senator Reid, McConnell as well as Speaker Boehner and Nancy Pelosi, and insisting that we have a vote on this bill.
We've been hearing from Republicans that there's some proposals that they're interested in. That is not surprising, since the content of the American Jobs Act includes proposals that in the past have been supported by Republicans and Democratic -- Democrats alike. And if there are aspects of the bill that they don't like, they should tell us what it is that they're not willing to go for. They should tell us what it is that they're prepared to see move forward.
I have to tell you that I can't imagine any American that I've been talking to that's not interested in seeing construction workers back on the job rebuilding roads and bridges, schools, airports, putting teachers back in the classroom to make sure that our kids are getting the very best education and making sure our vets get help when they come home and that small businesses have further incentive to hire them.
So I'm very much looking forward to seeing Congress debate this bill, pass it, get it to my desk so we can start putting hundreds of thousands and millions of Americans back to work.
And I will be continuing to put as much pressure as I can bring to bear on my administration and our agencies to do everything we can without Congress' help. But ultimately, they've got to do the right thing for the American people.
All right. Thank you very much, everybody.
MALVEAUX: And you can see that was a tape that was just turned around at the White House. The president meeting with his Cabinet putting some pressure on the House as well as the Senate as members of Congress come back from a brief recess. They are going to get back to work in earnest at 2:00 this afternoon.
So the president pushing them a little bit, giving them a nudge saying that he wants that -- his jobs plan, his proposal, that legislation to be passed and to be passed as quickly as possible, saying there will be some meetings about this set up by the end of the month.
Well, Teamsters president James Hoffa says that there is a war on American workers, and he is blaming in part the Tea Party. We're going to talk to him right here in the studio up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Well, the man who says he will never apologize for standing up for the American worker, Teamsters president James Hoffa called for a war with the Tea Party while speaking to a union crowd in Detroit on Labor Day. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES HOFFA, TEAMSTERS PRESIDENT: We've got to keep an eye on the battle that we face, a war on workers. And you see it everywhere. It is the Tea Party. And you know there's only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight.
And you know what? They've got a war, they've got a war with us, and there's only going to be one winner, it's going to be the workers of Michigan and America. We're going to win that war.
President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. And you know what? Everybody here's got a vote. If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize, let's taken these son of bitches out and give America back to America where we belongs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Teamsters president James Hoffa joins us here in the studio.
Thank you for coming.
HOFFA: Great to be here.
MALVEAUX: You do not back down from a fight, even if it's a tough one. Tell us why, first of all, explain what you meant when you said you believe American workers need to go to war with the Tea Party?
HOFFA: Well, they declared war on us. First of all, well, they -- in the election of '10, of November of '10, they elected over six governors and basically took back the House. And what do we see now? We see gridlock now, Tea Party Republicans both at the state level in Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan and New Jersey. And we see it in the House in Washington right now.
Basically gridlocking everything. And what's their plan? Cut back on everything that the workers have. Take away unemployment. Take away Social Security. Take away Medicare and Medicaid. What's the debate in Washington? Every time the president tries to advance a plan to basically solve the economic problems, they want to cut Social Security.
They want to cut things that are so basic to America, and the same thing with the states right now. In Wisconsin take away collective bargaining.
MALVEAUX: Let's talk a little bit about the states --
HOFFA: And you see, that's what's going on.
MALVEAUX: You have a lot of governors who will fight back, and essentially -- and local governments, state government who say, look, we are not competitive here. We cannot even possibly run our own governments, support a balanced budget without making those cuts, and the union workers are the ones who have these excellent benefits, higher pay, and they just can't afford it. They say that model's outdated. They can't afford to run their own governments.
HOFFA: Isn't it funny that 15 years ago we didn't have this problem? Does anybody really think that a teacher is the problem? Just causing the economic problem? Or a fireman? Or an EMS driver?
MALVEAUX: But they're saying --
HOFFA: They're not the ones doing --
MALVEAUX: They're saying it's the unions. They're saying as a group --
HOFFA: No, it's not the unions. But what they're attacking is the workers. When they articulate this at the Wisconsin level, the Ohio level, the New Jersey level, it's basically taking people that have good jobs, that have worked hard, earned what they have to take it away by those who do not have those things.
That is wrong. What we have to do is have more money in the system. Why wasn't it 15 years ago this wasn't a debate? We weren't closing libraries, we weren't laying off policemen 15 years ago.
MALVEAUX: Let me ask you this, though. How do you --
HOFFA: So how have things changed?
MALVEAUX: How do you work with the governors who make the case, who make the argument they can no longer afford to pay the union wages? That they are not competitive anymore. When you look at the private sector, they're not paying nearly what they're paying the union workers. How do they stay solvent? How do those states stay solvent?
HOFFA: Well, first of all, you aren't going to deal with them. Because they have -- their very doctrine -- you take Scott Walker in Wisconsin. He is out basically to destroy unions. There isn't dealing with him. This is an idea of what's fair. He's basically declared war on the workers of Wisconsin.
And so the idea is we're going to recall him. There's no getting along with him because he (INAUDIBLE). He's Tea Party and he is on a program that does not include and basically cut back what all the workers have. The same thing in New Jersey. So what we have to do is to have a plan to basically go in, go to the polls. We have the votes and turn those people out that have turned against the American workers.
MALVEAUX: So, James, just to be clear, you're saying that there is no compromising, there's no negotiating with these governors. So just kick these guys out and you maintain that these are the salary level, these are the benefits level that we're going to insist on?
HOFFA: Absolutely, absolutely. We have earned these levels, and the answer is, they don't want to negotiate. This idea they want to negotiate or this is about a decent deal, that's not true in Wisconsin.
In Wisconsin there was $120 billion or million gap, and they said OK, we'll sit down and work on that. He said no, I want to get rid of collective bargaining for workers. So you see there is no deal there to be made. And that's what's wrong with it. Everybody has an idea we can deal with these people.
They went to war, and we tried to deal with them at the very beginning, and they would not deal with us. And since they had the House and the Senate at the state level, they passed all these different things.
MALVEAUX: Well, let's talk about the bigger picture here, because you're fighting for higher wages, benefits, these type of packages here. But what about jobs in general? People can't even get jobs at this point. What are you doing --
HOFFA: Well, there's the problem --
MALVEAUX: As the head of the Teamsters to create jobs? Are you retraining folks? Are you looking at the bigger picture?
HOFFA: Well, this is the problem with America right now. America right now is awash in cash. The corporations have more money, they have record-amounts of money. They have trillions of dollars overseas.
Apple has $80 billion in the bank and their checking account. And what are they doing? They're sitting on the sidelines. They want Obama to fail. What are they doing to create jobs?
MALVEAUX: Let's --
HOFFA: Let's just take the Teamsters. We're doing very well at the Teamsters. We deal with UPS, we deal with companies, we did good wage increases, we maintain our health care, our pension. So it can be done, and the idea that there's no money in America, there's something wrong here.
And the problem is the tax base is wrong. Fifteen years ago we didn't have this problem. And what has happened in between has been the Bush tax cuts that basically have been in all the years -- but eight years now since they passed those. So that sucked all of the money out of the economy. There's not enough money for the states, there's not enough money for the federal government, and everything is cut, cut, cut.
If we didn't have those cuts, which really have proven that they don't work, we've had those tax cuts force eight years now, and what's happened? We have record unemployment. So let's scrap that, let's go back to, let's say, the Clinton era tax code and struck any more money in this economy that trickles down to the states and then we'll have an America we can be proud of.
MALVEAUX: You mentioned Governor Chris Christie. There's a lot of talk about him possibly jumping into the race. What would you make of that?
HOFFA: Well, he couldn't win. I mean I think -- all these people -- the more they move to the right, the less opportunity they have to win because that's not where America is at. America wants fairness, they want -- they want basically quality of sacrifice, they don't want billionaires and millionaires paying less taxes than a Teamster or a plumber or a teacher.
That's not right -- that's not right in America. And we better change that.
MALVEAUX: All right.
HOFFA: Once we change that, we'll have enough money to run this country.
MALVEAUX: James Hoffa, we've got to leave it there. Thank you for joining us. Appreciate it.
HOFFA: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: All right.
Well, a new Supreme Court term begins today, and one court watcher says it could be a doozy. We'll look at some of the more provocative cases that the court is likely to consider.
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Well, South Carolina Republicans just announced when they're going to hold their presidential primary. Our senior political editor Mark Preston, he's part of the best political team on television, is live on the political desk in Washington.
So, Mark, first you had Florida decided to have their primary very early in January. Made the party angry. Now South Carolina makes this announcement. What do they say? Why is this important?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, this is a huge, important story, Suzanne. As we're talking about how Republicans are going to choose their presidential nominee, South Carolina just in the past few moments, in the last 10, 15, 20 minutes decided that it's January 21st for their primary.
What this means is that everything is going to cascade backwards. Candidates now right after -- right after Christmas will be campaigning in Iowa trying to woo the Iowa caucus voters. The Iowa caucus now will likely be held in the first or second week in January followed then by New Hampshire.
What we don't know is what's going to happen to Nevada. But to sum it all up very quickly, Republican leaders, Suzanne, we're hoping that this nominating process would not start until February, however, it's going to start in early January. We will see Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and Florida voters all weighing in on the Republican presidential primaries.
So a big development as the campaigns now are trying to calibrate and figure out how they can win the Republican presidential nomination -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: All right. Gives them a little bit less time there. Now I understand that Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain is sitting down. He's meeting with Donald Trump shortly. And this comes after Perry and Romney did the same.
What does this say about where he is in his campaign?
PRESTON: Yes, you know, a month ago we wouldn't have seen Herman Cain meeting with Donald Trump. But it shows that he certainly has come onto the national scene. He's getting a second look by Republican voters.
Look, he was on Jay Leno's couch on Friday. We saw him on the Sunday shows yesterday. Herman Cain won the very important Florida straw poll recently, and he is starting to show that he's getting double digits in national polls.
Does this mean Herman Cain can win the Republican presidential nomination? He's probably a still a very, very, very long shot. But what it does show is that Herman Cain is least -- is going to be part of the conversation, and Suzanne, he has a new book coming out tomorrow. The title is called "This Is Herman Cain: My Journey to the White House." So Herman Cain, certainly in the spotlight now -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Next it might be a reality TV show. You never know. I mean, you know, you can tell how this goes, right? You've got the book, you meet with Trump. You know Sarah Palin has done this before. So we'll see if it works for him as well.
All right, thanks, Mark.
PRESTON: Thanks.
MALVEAUX: For the latest political news, you know where to go, CNNPolitics.com.
Well, here's one to think about over your morning coffee. Which are more environmentally friendly? A, cars, or B, motorcycles. The answer coming up next.
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MALVEAUX: So we asked you, which are more environmentally friendly -- cars or motorcycles? Well, pat yourself on the back if you said cars. According to the Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters," despite having much bigger engines, sophisticated emissions, equipment on cars, reduce the pollutants they pump into the air.
It is the first Monday in October, and that means this is the first day of a new term for the U.S. Supreme Court. One court watcher says this could be a blockbuster year for the justices.
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TOM GOLDSTEIN, SCOTUBLOG.COM FOUNDER: The Supreme Court term so far is shaping up to be pretty interesting but it could become absolutely explosive and enthralling. It could be the most interesting one in a century.
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MALVEAUX: So how so? Here's a look at a few of the cases that could make this year a landmark year for the high court. Health care reform. At issue is whether it's constitutional to require Americans to buy health insurance. That's the so-called individual mandate.
Second, television indecency. The court will consider whether policies on profanity and sexual content violate the free speech rights of broadcasters. And, third, electronic surveillance. At issue, whether the government violated a drug suspect's rights by secretly installing a GPS tracking device on his car.
Our CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, he's joining us from New York.
Jeff, I don't know if you agree or not with SCOTUBlog.com, enthralling perhaps the cases here? What jumps out at you?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, health care reform really could be the biggest case that has been before the court since Bush v. Gore. But here you have President Obama's major achievement as president of the United States and the Supreme Court very likely will issue a thumbs up or thumbs down in the next -- you know, before the -- July of next year. It is a huge, huge case.
MALVEAUX: And Jeff, what about the make-up of the court? It's changed. Has it at all changed its rulings or its character now that you have three female justices on the court?
TOOBIN: Well, I think more important than three female justices is you have four Democratic justices. I mean the political polarization that we see in Congress we see in the Supreme Court now.
There are five Republicans on that court, there are four Democrats on that court, and that really tells you pretty much all you need to know about how they resolve most cases.
MALVEAUX: Do we expect to see the same kind of 5-4 split that we've become accustomed to, you think, over hot-button issues?
TOOBIN: We sure do. I mean Justice Anthony Kennedy is the most moderate of the five Republicans. He holds the key to virtually every hot-button issue, including health care. It's -- John Roberts is the chief justice but it is Anthony Kennedy's court.
MALVEAUX: OK, Jeff, appreciate your time. We'll be looking out very closely following a lot of those cases. Thanks. Reminder to vote for today's "Choose the News" winner. Text 22360 for the story that you'd like to see. Text 1 for "Mandela Reality Show." Why Nelson Mandela's grandchildren say they plan to star in their own new reality TV show. Even though critics say they're going to ruin their grandfather's image.
Text 2 to find out about a new baby saving device. We're going to show you how this portable and cheap incubator type device is now saving lives. And text 3 for "Bartering is Hot" online and in person. We're going to show you how more and more people are exchanging goods instead of buying them.
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MALVEAUX: Now for our stories the affiliates are covering across the country. Forget about the leaves turning colors. In some places the snow is already falling. All right, it was just a little dusting in central Pennsylvania, barely enough to make a snowball, but it was snow.
In San Diego, people from miles away said they could feel the boom from this wall of fire and fireworks show. Unbelievable. It is part of the annual Miramar air show. Now the flames can reach 2500 feet. Eleven years ago they actually made the "Guinness Book of World Records."
All right. Time to flex those muscles. OK. These folks in Rhode Island proved you can do anything, even pull a 179,000-pound jet. That's right. If you work together. They did it. It was all well worth it raising thousands of dollars for multiple sclerosis research.
