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Officials: U.S. Terror Plot Foiled; News Conference With AG Eric Holder, FBI Director Robert Mueller on Terror Plot
Aired October 11, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Randi Kaye, thank you very much.
And hello to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
As Randi was just pointing out, two major stories developing this hour. Let me set this up for you.
First and foremost, we thought we would be hearing from the president right about now -- if we have a live picture, guys, let's pop that up and just show everyone -- where we were expecting and should be expecting still to see the president today speaking at a workers local union, essentially today, pitching that $447 billion jobs bill, which, by the way, is expected to be rejected in a key procedural vote by the Senate today. Keep your eyes on the right side of the screen to see the president.
Why has he not appeared? We do not know.
I do not know if that is at all affected by the picture on the left- hand side of your screen. These are live pictures from the DOJ, the Department of Justice, where we should be hearing from any moment now, so stay with us.
We should be hearing from two key players there. First, the Attorney General, Eric Holder, and also FBI chief Robert Mueller. The issue -- and I want to bring Jill Dougherty back in.
And Jill, let's just have this conversation here as we're breaking this news, this major plot apparently thwarted by both the DEA and the FBI. This plot, I've never heard of something like this, I don't know if you have, involving Saudi Arabia, U.S., Mexico, and Iran.
Go ahead. Bring us up to speed here as we are at the top of the hour. What do you know?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, the interesting thing that we also understand from those two senior U.S. officials is that the Mexicans were very important in getting information and explaining that this plot -- or revealing that this plot was going to take place, and that's an important point, because -- let's back up a little bit and refresh everyone on what this plot is, according to two senior U.S. officials.
BALDWIN: Yes. DOUGHERTY: They are saying that the FBI and the DEA, Drug Enforcement Agency, broke up a plot, disrupted a plot to commit terrorism. And what was that terrorism? It was to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States. And it was allegedly directed by elements of the Iranian government.
Now, we are looking through the complaint, the legal documents, to see what exactly that means, elements of the Iranian government. But, obviously, directed in some fashion by the Iranian government.
And, then, the really interesting thing is how this was supposed to take place, because as we understand from those senior U.S. officials, there was a person who was trying to solicit help from Mexican drug cartels to carry out this assassination. So, already, we've got three countries -- let's say four countries --
BALDWIN: Four countries.
DOUGHERTY: -- involved. And especially, you know, I think you'd have to say the relationship between the United States and Mexico has had difficulty, of course, over the issue of drug cartels and the money and the power and weapons that they have.
So this, if the Mexicans helped, which we understand they did, is very important because you could have, if the plot had been carried out, been having the United States blaming Mexican cartels. So, actually, the finger now is pointing at Iran.
BALDWIN: OK. A couple questions for you, Jill Dougherty.
First, with regard to relations between Iran and Mexico, certainly something we don't often talk about, what can you tell me about the relationships between those countries, if in fact the issue was elements within the Iranian regime reaching out to potentially Mexican drug cartels to carry out this assassination?
DOUGHERTY: You know, actually, I can't tell you a lot about that, because I don't think that a lot of people at least following this would make that link initially. But you do have to say, Brooke, that internationally, these drug cartels have become kind of armies or almost countries themselves. They're entities themselves that have links around the world.
So, if a country were looking for somebody to do something, they might turn to these organized crime groups because, again, they have money, personnel, and many times the ability to get to places and do things. That is only my -- what I am saying. It's my opinion.
BALDWIN: Sure.
DOUGHERTY: I am not saying that these U.S. officials are saying that. But it's not such a weird link when you think about it.
Now, of course, if you get to Iran and the Saudis, they are at odds. And certainly that has been a big issue for the Saudis, worrying about growing Iranian influence, and that is something that has been going on for a long time. But this Mexican part of it, according to these officials, is very interesting.
BALDWIN: It's fascinating.
Again, live pictures we're showing you, the Department of Justice, as we should be hearing from both the Attorney General, Eric Holder, and the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller.
Jill, the other issue with this story that sort of jumps out at me is the fact that this alleged assassination -- or I guess I should say this thwarted assassination -- would have been carried out on U.S. soil.
DOUGHERTY: Absolutely. And that's where it gets really complicated, because you'd have to -- I mean, immediately, the United States, having a potential assassination on its shores, it is a very serious issue to do that.
So, if the Iranian government wanted to do it, again, why would they want to just, let's say, involve the United States and really poke the United States unless they felt that perhaps it wouldn't have been initially clear that it was the Iranians, allegedly, who were behind this? Hence, the involvement potentially of Mexicans, Mexican drug lords.
BALDWIN: What can you tell us about the would-be target here, the Saudi ambassador to the U.S., Adel Al-Jubeir?
DOUGHERTY: Not a whole lot other than he is an ambassador for a very important country, important on many different levels. Right now you have --
BALDWIN: Here he is. This is his image. Continue, please.
DOUGHERTY: OK. There we go.
Well, the Saudis are involved in so many different aspects of American foreign policy. They are certainly a major player involved in the Middle East, involved in issues now with the Arab Spring, involved certainly in that relationship vis-a-vis the Iranians.
They are friends of the United States. The Saudis certainly have for a long time. They are important economically because the oil -- all sorts of levels.
So, to try to assassinate the ambassador in the United States is a major step. I mean, let's say the scope of this is really striking, to allegedly try to assassinate an ambassador for a country to another major country, the United States, on U.S. soil.
BALDWIN: Do we know yet -- and I'm guessing we don't, but I just want to ask what specifics -- as far as this would-be assassination, do you know how they were planning on taking him out?
DOUGHERTY: No, other than using the Mexican drug lords. And, you know, assassinations have happened before. There are a lot of ways of carrying out an assassination. You could, of course, blow somebody up, and that actually has happened here in Washington many years ago. Orlando Letelier, as I remember, back in the '70s, I think, was blown up in a car. A Chilean.
So you could do that. You could certainly -- there might be a poisoning. There are all sorts of different ways that you could do this.
BALDWIN: Sure. But we don't know.
DOUGHERTY: You do not.
BALDWIN: We don't know. OK.
And, again, we should be hearing from some top officials there within the Department of Justice.
Do we have any idea, Jill, what their comments may be, or they're just simply breaking the news?
DOUGHERTY: Well, I think the Justice Department, as usual, will describe the legal case, the legal investigation that they have been carrying out. The FBI obviously involved, DEA.
You will hear the particulars, and the thing will be that I'm sure a lot of those journalists will press the Justice Department to explain as deeply as possible how, number one, this was supposed to work, how it was broken up, and then the implications. You're going to get some implications certainly from the State Department, which may talk about it. But at this point, we just want to find out some details about how this was going to work and how it was broken up.
BALDWIN: Do you have any idea, Jill -- as I mentioned at the top of the hour, we were expecting to see -- and I'm looking down to see, I don't see him yet -- the president of the United States, who arrived in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, this morning. You know, obviously a big topic on his agenda, selling that $447 billion jobs bill. From the best of my knowledge, he has yet to step forth and speak.
Do we know if that is being pushed back at all because of this announcement from the Department of Justice?
DOUGHERTY: Brooke, you know, I really can't say at this point. But obviously, if it was pushed back, perhaps there might be some plan.
Obviously, the president has to be briefed on as much as possible. I'm sure he knows as much as anyone knows at this point.
Whether he says something would be a very good indication as to the seriousness of this, the way the United States views it. If the president talks about it, it is major.
BALDWIN: Yes. We will certainly be listening for the president to speak, obviously, not just about jobs, as was anticipated, but specifically on this thwarted assassination plot.
I believe we are less than a minute away from this news conference at the Department of Justice again. We'll show the live pictures.
We should be hearing from Attorney General Eric Holder and also chief of the FBI, Robert Mueller.
And essentially, the news this afternoon is this -- major, major news from the Department of Justice, as both the DEA, as Jill has been so eloquently reporting, the DEA, and also the FBI, breaking up, thwarting this plot, disrupting this plot, a plot to kill the Saudi ambassador to the United States. The plot was directed, according to these top U.S. officials, by elements of the Iranian government, and apparently a person, perhaps persons, were supposed to be working by getting members of the Mexican drug cartel -- cartels -- to carry out an assassination of this Saudi ambassador.
Again, we're waiting to hear from the Department of Justice as far as the specifics as to how this would work, how they were able to break it up.
OK. Let's bring in Barbara Starr, who is covering the story for us from the Pentagon.
Barbara, what do we know about the Iranian Quds forces?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, as we read these -- this paperwork coming out of the Justice Department, Brooke, it talks about at least one of the alleged conspirators being a member of the Iranian Quds Force. This is an element of the Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard. This is a force that has been at the top of the list of terrorist --
BALDWIN: Barbara, forgive me for interrupting. Here's the attorney general. Let's listen.
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Today, the Department of Justice is announcing charges against two people who allegedly attempted to carry out a deadly plot that was directed by factions of the Iranian government to assassinate a foreign ambassador here in the United States. Manssor Arbabsiar, a nationalized United States citizen who holds an Iranian passport and was arrested last month in New York, is accused of working with members of an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps to devise an international murder-for-hire scheme targeting the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States.
According to the complaint filed today in the southern district of New York, Ababsiar is alleged to have orchestrated a $1.5 million assassination plot with Gholam Shakuri, an Iranian-based member of the Quds Force, and other Iranian co-conspirators. Now, the Quds Force is a unit of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. It is also suspected of sponsoring attacks against the coalition forces in Iraq, and was designated by the Department of Treasury in 2007 for providing material support to the Taliban and other terrorist organizations.
The complaint alleges that this conspiracy was conceived, was sponsored, and was directed from Iran, and constitutes a flagrant violation of U.S. and international law, including a convention that explicitly protects diplomats from being harmed. In addition to holding these individual conspirators accountable for their alleged role in this plot, the United States is committed to holding Iran accountable for its actions.
Ababsiar and Shakuri are charged with conspiracy to murder a foreign official, conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction, and conspiracy to commit an act of international terrorism, among other charges. Arbabsiar (ph) has been in custody since September the 29th, 2011, while Shakuri, based in Iran, remains at large.
Now, according to the complaint, earlier this spring Arbabsiar (ph) met with a confidential informant from the Drug Enforcement Administration who was posing as an associate of a violent international drug trafficking cartel. The meeting, which took place in May, and in Mexico, was the first of a series that would result in an international conspiracy by elements of the Iranian government to pay the informant $1.5 million to murder the ambassador on United States soil, according to documents that we filed today in court.
According to the complaint, those discussions led Ababsiar, with Shakuri's (ph) approval, to facilitate the wiring of approximately $100,000 into a bank account in the United States as a down payment for the attempted assassination. The complaint also states that in the days since the defendant's arrest, he has confessed to his participation in the alleged plot, as well as provided other valuable information about elements of the Iranian government's role in it.
The disruption of this alleged plot marks a significant achievement by our law enforcement and intelligence agencies, as well as the close cooperation of our partners in the Mexican government. I want to commend the outstanding work of the agencies that were involved in this investigation, including the FBI and Director Mueller, who is here with us today, as well as the Drug Enforcement Administration and Michelle Leonhart.
Their agents and their analysts worked closely with prosecutors here at the department's national security division, as well as in the southern district of New York, over these many months to monitor this alleged conspiracy, obtain valuable information, and bring one of the primary plotters to justice. I want to thank them for their remarkable work.
And now I'd like to turn it over to Director Mueller.
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Good afternoon.
This case illustrates that we live in a world where borders and boundaries are increasingly irrelevant, a world where individuals from one country sought to conspire with a drug trafficking cartel in another country to assassinate a foreign official on United States soil. And though it reads like the pages of a Hollywood script, the impact would have been very real and many lives would have been lost.
These individuals had no regard for their intended victim, no regard for innocent citizens who might have been hurt or killed in this attempted assassination. They had no regard for the rule of law. And with these charges, we bring the full weight of that law to bear on those responsible, and we send the clear message that any attempts on American soil will not be tolerated.
This was not a typical case for any of us, given the global ties we unraveled and the scope of the plot itself, but it represents the full range of threats we face, and it illustrates the need for continued collaboration, collaboration between agencies, departments, collaboration between countries. And we have said it many times before, but it does bear repeating. It is only working side by side that we are able to stop plots like this before they can take hold.
We will continue to work together to find and stop those who seek to do us harm, whether they attempt to strike overseas or here at home, whether it is a conspiracy to kill a foreign official on U.S. soil, a terrorist attack on United States citizens, or street crime in our communities.
Now let me turn it over to Lisa Monaco.
LISA MONACO, ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: Thank you very much, Director Mueller.
I want to echo the remarks of the attorney general and others here today in thanking those involved in this operation. This is a significant milestone and achievement in our national security efforts.
As you have heard, the facts, as alleged today in today's criminal complaint, shed light on an assassination plot that was conceived and sponsored by elements of the Iranian government. Thanks to a coordinated law enforcement effort, we were able to penetrate and thwart the plot before it could result in harm to the ambassador or anyone else.
I want to thank the men and the women of the National Security Division in particular, those from the division's counterterrorism section and other sections within the division for their efforts in helping to shepherd this case and for their efforts in the extensive coordination that was required to arrive at today's result.
This case, perhaps more than any in recent memory, involved an incredible amount of collaboration with partners over several months. Were it not for the hard work of the division and its many partners, we wouldn't be standing here today.
I want to thank our partners in the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York for their extensive and hard work on this matter. I also want to acknowledge the work of the prosecutors in the Houston U.S. Attorney's Office, and, of course, the many investigators at the FBI, the DEA, and the New York Joint Terrorism Task Force. They deserve a special commendation for thwarting this plot and obtaining information on those behind it.
Finally, I want to thank the intelligence committee for its critical role in this matter. The National Security Division was designed to serve as the place where intelligence and law enforcement come together at the Justice Department. I am proud to say that we served that purpose here. This case demonstrates exactly how the division is supposed to work, and should serve as a model for future cases.
Thank you.
And I'd like to introduce the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara.
PREET BHARARA, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Thank you, Assistant Attorney General Monaco.
As has been described, the complaint unsealed today reveals a well- funded and pernicious plot that had as its first priority, the assassination of the Saudi ambassador to the United States. The details of that murder plot are chilling, to the least, as the defendants allegedly had no care or concern about inflicting mass casualties on innocent Americans, on American soil, in furtherance of their assassination plan.
For example, as set forth in the complaint, when the confidential source noted that there could be 100 or 150 people in a fictional restaurant where the requested bombing would take place, including possibly members of the United States Congress, the lead defendant, acting on behalf of a component of the government of Iran, said no problem and no big deal. And as we allege, the defendant showed that they were more than ready, willing and able to carry out their plan by, among other things, causing $100,000 to be wired to a bank in New York as a deadly down payment for their hired gun. And it didn't stop there.
The Saudi ambassador's assassination was allegedly intended to be merely the opening act in a series of lethal attacks cooked up by the defendants and their cohorts in Iran. Like the speakers before me, I want to thank all the partners responsible for unraveling this plot before it ever even got off the ground.
Our work, as has been said, is a product of a collaborative effort among intelligence and law enforcement agencies that share an unflagging commitment to keeping Americans safe both at home and abroad, and protecting representatives of foreign governments while they are guests in our country.
I want to commend Director Mueller and the FBI for its outstanding work on this unprecedented and very much ongoing investigation. Specifically, also the Houston FBI Office for its tremendous work, and also the New York Joint Terrorism Task Force, and our partner in so many cases, Janice Vadarchik (ph), the assistant director in charge there of the New York office.
I also want to thank the Houston Office of the DEA for their important role in this investigation, and, of course, the attorney general and his staff, Assistant Attorney General Lisa Monaco, and our close colleagues at the National Security Division for their tremendous leadership and support.
And finally, I just want to acknowledge the dedicated career prosecutors in my own office in the Southern District of New York, Glenn Copp (ph) and Edward Kim (ph), along with their supervisors, Michael Farbiarge (ph) and Jocelyn Strauber (ph), Deputy U.S. Attorney Richard Zabel (ph), and the acting chief of the criminal division Jonathan Kalodner (ph).
None of the people that have been mentioned by me and others have gotten much sleep lately, and we're all safer because of it.
Today's charges should make crystal clear that we will not let other countries use our soil as their battleground.
Thank you.
HOLDER: We'll take any questions that you might have.
QUESTION: Mr. Attorney General, when you say that you're going to hold Iran accountable, what exactly do you mean by that?
HOLDER: Well, we'll be working with our colleagues at the White House, at the State Department, at the Treasury Department, and they will be taking further action which they will be making more -- they will be making known in the relatively -- over the next few hours.
QUESTION: Just to be clear though, Mr. Attorney General, to what degree are you saying that the Iranian government was complicit? Did they know about this at the outset? Did they direct it? Did they order it?
What exactly are you saying?
HOLDER: Well, the organization that I reference in my warrant is a component of the Iranian government. It was -- as we have alleged in the complaint, say that this was directed and approved by elements of the Iranian government, and specifically senior members of the Quds Force, which is a part of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Iranian military. High-up officials in those agencies, which is an integral part of the Iranian government, were responsible for this plot.
QUESTION: So it's just the upper reaches of the Iranian government knew about this and blessed it?
HOLDER: We are not making that charge at this point.
QUESTION: Can you talk a little bit more about the other attacks that were to follow? And what is the sort of understood motivation or purpose behind the overall plot, as you see it?
HOLDER: We are restricting our comments today to that which we have charged in the complaint.
QUESTION: Why as the -- why were the charges brought in New York? And were there any charges to be brought in D.C.?
BHARARA: You know, as is the case when you have an international plot that touches a lot of different jurisdictions, cases can be brought in a lot of different jurisdictions. And one of the bases for a jurisdiction to be in the Southern District in New York is, as I pointed out in my remarks, that there was a $100,000 payment which was a down payment on the alleged assassination attempt, and that traveled through a bank in the Southern District of New York.
QUESTION: Mr. Attorney General, were there -- besides the wiring of the money, what were the other overt acts? Did anybody obtain explosives?
HOLDER: Well, why don't I let Preet answer that, but the answer to that one is no.
BHARARA: The complaint alleges just a couple of overt acts. There's a discussion of conversations that took place, meetings that took place.
The complaint does not allege that explosives were actually purchased. Remember, as the complaint lays out, the entire time that this entire operation was being investigated, the confidential source was operating under the guidance and monitorship of FBI and other law enforcement agents. So, no explosives were actually ever placed anywhere, and no one was actually in any danger.
QUESTION: Can you address what role the Mexican government played in the investigation of this? I mean, was (INAUDIBLE) traveled back and forth there, can you tell us anything about how they were involved?
HOLDER: Well, I can certainly say that we've all commended the Mexican government for their cooperation with us and in this, helping us uncover the plot, helping us ultimately unwind it. I don't want to go into too much detail as to what the nature of the cooperation was, but it was significant. And I don't think without it that we would have been able to accomplish what we have announced today.
QUESTION: Are you -- are there any other suspects at large in the United States? There is reference here to others who were conducting another surveillance in Washington in the past. Are there any folks who you suspect are part of this plot still in the United States that you're looking for?
HOLDER: We don't have any basis to believe that there are any other co-conspirators present here in the United States.
QUESTION: Mr. Holder, first, did the Iranian men know the ambassador's favorite restaurant? It says it was discussed. Or was that something that the confidential informant came up with?
And, second, why has the other person -- how is he still at large?
BHARARA: I'm not going to -- I don't think it's appropriate to respond on the second question.
In response to the first question, we should just be clear that, as the complaint lays out, there was never actually any identified restaurant. I referred to it as a fictional restaurant, I think, in my remarks. It was the way in which, as is laid out in the complaint, the confidential source was providing information to the people who were paying him to engage in this assassination plot. As to the details of it, and the way in which he was going about setting up what was requested of him after the payment of money was paid.
QUESTION: Could you elaborate a little bit on what kind of an attack this was supposed to be? Was it to be a car bomb? Or what sort of an attack?
BHARARA: Again, directing you to the complaint, it's not a very long document. There's a discussion in the complaint about the way in which the assassination attempt would go off. And if memory serves, I think there's a discussion between the defendant and the confidential source about the best way to do it, whether it should be indoors or outdoors, whether it should be a bomb or otherwise. And at some point -- again, this is pretty explicitly laid out in the complaint -- there's a discussion of using explosive devices, which is why one of the charges in the complaint is use of a weapon of mass destruction.
QUESTION: Mr. Attorney General, this case seems to have culminated over the same time as the two hikers. There were negotiations to get the hikers released. Was any consideration or discussion with the State Department given to their plight and the timing of this case?
HOLDER: These cases -- this case was brought as the facts warranted, as the facts dictated. We have been at this matter for a number of months, and the attorneys in the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York, with our great colleagues in the National Security Division, worked on this matter irrespective of other things that were going on.
QUESTION: At what point was the Saudi government brought in?
HOLDER: I'm not exactly sure when they were notified, but they have been notified, and they will be reacting as well in a public fashion very soon.
QUESTION: Are there ambassadors in other countries that are in danger or threatened with regard to this whole conspiracy?
HOLDER: Not with regard to this conspiracy, but I think one has to be concerned about the chilling nature of what the Iranian government attempted to do here. And one of the things that our State Department will be doing will be getting in touch with other of our allies and nations around the world to make them aware of exactly what it is that was thwarted here today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last question.
QUESTION: Mr. Attorney General, I have to ask you about the Fast & Furious investigation, if you can indulge me for one minute.
The report is that they are preparing subpoenas on the Hill to get information from the Justice Department, naming top officials in the Justice Department. Apparently, the people on the Hill, your critics say, they just don't believe your testimony, in essence.
So what do you have to say about that and how will you comply with the subpoenas?
HOLDER: We have sent thousands of pages of documents up to the Hill. We'll look at the subpoenas. I'm sure we will undoubtedly comply with them. But what I want the American people to understand is that in complying with those subpoenas and dealing with that inquiry, that will not detract us from the important business that we here to do at the Justice Department, including matters like the one that we have announced today.
Thank you.
BALDWIN: OK. Here we go.
As I have just printed out this complaint, I know a lot of people right now are reading it, including Barbara Starr. But let me just bring you up to speed.
We have just heard now from multiple people within the Department of Justice talking specifically about a very complicated plot that the DEA and FBI have just thwarted.
Essentially, there were these two men included in this complaint here, facing multiple charges here, Manssor Arbabsiar and Gholam Shakuri involved in purportedly wanting to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States, basically via bomb in a restaurant in Washington, D.C.
Barbara Starr, let me just bring you in here as I sort of look over at my notes as we were listening to all them speak here.
So, let me make sure I get this straight. Two people involved. One person apprehended. One person still at large.
STARR: One person not in this country, according to law enforcement officials. Brooke, let's put a face to this right off the top.
BALDWIN: Sure.
STARR: Who is the Saudi ambassador to Washington?
This is a man very well known in this town, a very senior international diplomat. You see his picture there. This man's name is Adel Al-Jubeir. He is very close to King Abdullah. He was close to King Fhad before King Abdullah. He is very senior, works at the behest of the royal family.
Now, the Saudi royal family, of course, have been essentially in a knife fight, one with al Qaeda within that country, their own terrorist attacks that happened inside Saudi Arabia, but also the king of Saudi Arabia has come out against the violence in Syria. And that potentially links this to Iran, because the Iran's Quds force that you kept hearing about, the Iranians revolutionary guard corps, the most militant wing of Iranian military, is essentially looking at Syria as one of its satellite states for the last many years. They have been using the Assad as their place from which to launch attacks, to support terrorism, to support Hamas, to run weapons all over the world.
So, you know, there is glad blood at the moment between Iran and Saudi Arabia on a couple of fronts. Adel Al-Jubeir, very well known, very respected in this town as an international diplomat.
And, if we look a little bit further at this unsealed complaint that we have now, the discussion of the Quds force of Iran is very interesting because this is a terrorist force not very well understood, perhaps, by many Americans. We heard about al Qaeda for so many years. This Quds force is front and center in U.S. military and U.S. national security concerns. They have operated against U.S. troops in Iraq, against U.S. troops in Afghanistan. They have supported terrorism, assassination plots, all kinds of attacks around the world, especially in the Middle East.
It is the militant wing that the U.S. military has kept a very close eye on inside of Iran and their own expansionism of al Quds across the Middle East as they engage in these operations and clearly, today, we're seeing al Quds trying to reach out and touch inside the United States.
BALDWIN: Barbara, stand by, because I want to ask a little bit more -- obviously one of the big -- the major question is, what did the regime Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- what did he or others that high up know about this thwarted assassination?
Let's go to Reza Sayah, he's live for me in Islamabad.
What I understand, Reza, that the president's spokesman has already released a statement. What are they saying?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just a little while ago, I spoke to the Iranian spokesman of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and he gave me a vehement and sometimes a mocking denial. Here's exactly what Ali Ahmad Jabanpek said about these allegations coming from the Justice Department.
Quote, "This is a child story. It's not the first time America has come up with a story like this. America is facing domestic problems and this is an attempt by them to disrupt the public by trying to convince that there is an outside threat."
He went on to say, "From our perspective, this is a fabrication. America has become an expert at making false allegations against other countries."
So a vehement denial of the spokesperson of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Even, so I think this is -- this is a report that is going to make a lot of headlines, obviously, in the U.S. and throughout the world. Washington has accused Iran of a lot of things before, but this type of accusation is very rare. Maybe even unprecedented to come out and say a faction within the Iranian government is involved in a plateau assassinate a diplomat on U.S. soil.
This is an unprecedented accusation. Again, it's going to make headlines. The details were not many, according to what I heard in the press conference, but it's a serious allegation and one that is going to make a lot of headlines and draw a lot of attention to this very tumultuous relationship between Tehran and Washington.
BALDWIN: Also, Reza, if we can just back, because according to this 21-page complaint, it essentially outlines sort of this directive from the Quds force, which is part of the Iranian revolutionary guard corps, part of the Iran military.
So, help us connect the dots and understand the relationship between all of these separate entities.
SAYAH: Well, as Barbara Starr mentioned, the Quds force is a specialized faction within the revolutionary guard, which is a military force that was established by the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the supreme who started the Islamic revolution. And their job, their mission was to protect the Islamic republic. They've certainly been accused of being involved in terrorist activity.
But again, this type of plot, experts will tell you, is not Iran's M.O. Iran has been accused by Washington of being a state sponsor of terrorism, indirectly supporting Hezbollah and then go out and carry terroristic attacks, but they've never been, as far as I understand, accused Washington of being involved in a plot like this, where they go on U.S. soil and they assassinate a diplomat.
And then you have the Justice Department saying factions within the government. The question is, you know, what factions? I think the reporter at the press conference asked --
BALDWIN: They asked. Right.
SAYAH: -- how deep does this go. Yes. And there was no answer.
BALDWIN: Right.
SAYAH: So the question is, if indeed there are factions of the Iranian government involved in this plot, who were they and how high did it go up? Did it go up to the President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? You know, was he aware of this?
As you heard, the spokesperson laughing off this allegation, completely denying it.
BALDWIN: Let me bring Barbara Starr back in.
Barbara, similar question to you. Would President Ahmadinejad have even known about this?
STARR: You know, I think what Reza just said is really one of the keys still to be unfolding. Inside Iran right now, there is a split, a power struggle, if you will, going on within the Iranian government, between Ahmadinejad, the religious factions in the government, the more militant wing of the Iranian military.
One of key questions for the CIA right now and CIA Director David Petraeus is how much does Ahmadinejad really know about what's going on inside his own military? Is he in fact issuing these orders? Does he know about them? Are they being carried out more independently, if you will, by the al Quds force in the revolutionary guard corps? Are they operating more independently and more on their own?
That's going to be a key thing to figure out if you want to get to who is really behind this. And one of the tools that the U.S. government has used up until now and I think we've heard about it, is some of the treasury sanctions, the financial sanctions on Iranian companies that essentially operate as front man companies for the al Quds force.
The al Quds is heavily invested across the Iranian economy and in a number of businesses. They get some of their money and their funding that way. That's what the U.S. and international financial community has been trying to shut down, working to try to impose sanctions on Iranian banks and businesses.
But, look, as Reza said, this takes it to another level that I don't think we've seen before, trying to engage in assassination in the United States of a very respected international diplomat.
BALDWIN: By the way, we have reached out -- we should mention, CNN has reached out to this Saudi ambassador to the U.S. He has not reached back out with regard to comment.
Barbara, do me a favor. Stand by. Guys, let's just show the live picture of President Obama shaking hands and taking some pictures because I just want to let you know, as of course we've had eyes and ears on his speech there in Pittsburgh as he was speaking jobs and pitching that jobs bill, we know and I can tell you that he did not mention this news that was just made at the Department of Justice just in the last couple of months.
I want to bring Jill Dougherty back into this because I know she's been going through this, you know, 21-page complaint here as I haven't quite had a moment to fully do so as we've been live on the air. But I was listening.
I know these two men, Jill, facing multiple charges, multiple counts here, outlining this document, including charge with conspiracy to murder a foreign official, conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, conspiracy to commit international terrorism. What more have you learned going through this?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, next step, Brooke. We understand -- of course, you heard from Attorney General Holder that they will hold Iran responsible and that there will be further information, further steps and actions in the next hour, as he put it.
And we understand that the State Department now is getting in touch with other countries, briefing them on what happened and that the U.S. is going to take this up with the U.N. Security Council. This is -- I don't think you can emphasize too much, Brooke, how serious this is in an international sense. It is, again, an allegation but it is a major, as they called it in the briefing, you heard from Holder, a flagrant violation of international law.
Now, the Iranians, we have to say, as you heard, are denying this. They're saying it's a fabrication, that it was meant to deflect Americans from their economic problem. So , there is a denial coming from the Iranians.
But the idea that the Iranians would try to carry out assassinations on U.S. soil is very, very serious. It's perceived that way and you can bet that the United States is going to retaliate with everything that it can possibly retaliate with.
BALDWIN: Certainly when he was asked, Attorney General Eric Holder was asked, you know, what do you mean by holding Iran accountable, we haven't quite get the answer though I'm sure we'll be learning sort of internationally what the fallout, right, will be of this. As you pointed out -- go ahead.
DOUGHERTY: Yes, I was going to say, Brooke, you know, they've already been takings sanctions against the Iranians and specifically, I think Barbara mentioned some of this, specifically targeting the revolutionary guards who are the people in essence really now almost control the Iranian economy. They have their tentacles in so much of the economy.
So, the idea that the United States has been taking the approach is to target them and hurt them as much as possible economically. So you can see a ratcheting up of that and, in that case, that can be significant because, after all, it's hitting them economically that hurts them. Their power comes from the economy.
But if do you have this question that's still unanswered, how far up the food chain in the Iranian government did it go? Who was actually the person or the group that actually started it? Was the president who himself has some economic problems? Iran's economy is having some problems. So, you know, did it come from him or the revolution guards or Quds?
BALDWIN: Yes, there are a myriad of questions here as the story has now broken this afternoon.
And I have many more for you as well, Jill Dougherty, including that the Mexico angle to this whole story. But do me a favor, stand by because as I just mentioned, the president, you know, was pitching that jobs bill in Pittsburgh didn't mention it in his speech. But we have now learned the administration does have a statement.
Let's go to Dan Lothian who is traveling with the president. He's in Pennsylvania for us right now.
And, Dan, what are you learning?
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a statement just put out by Tommy Vietor, who is a spokesman for the National Security Council, saying, quote, "The president was first briefed on this issue in June and directed his administration to provide all necessary support through this investigation. The disruption of this plot is a significant achievement by our intelligence and law enforcement agencies and the president is enormously grateful for their exceptional work in this instance and countless others."
And as you pointed out, the president was speaking just a short time ago on the issue of job creation, putting pressure on members of Congress and the Senate, specifically, to pass his jobs bill. He made no mention of this. But, of course, we're standing by to find out if at any time, either here or when the president heads down to Florida today, he will make some on-camera statements about this threat from Iran.
BALDWIN: OK. Dan Lothian, let's say in touch with you, please, sir. Thank you so much, if you learn anymore there.
And I just want to pull up -- let's pull up this map that we've created. This is a map where you can actually see the Saudi embassy here. You have the Potomac River on the left, I believe. What is that, that curve structure might that perhaps be the Watergate? I'm just guessing based upon D.C. It's near the Kennedy Center, for example.
So, that is where the Saudi embassy is. Again, we've reached out to this ambassador, we have yet to hear back any reaction to this really assassination, this thwarted assassination on his life -- and as those different officials describe, it would have been a bomb blast, it would have happened at a restaurant in Washington, D.C. So not only would this ambassador have been killed, but multiple, multiple casualties there as well.
I understand I have Tom Fuentes, former FBI assistant director, CNN contributor, on the phone with me.
And, Tom, what do you make of this?
TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (via telephone): Hello?
BALDWIN: Tom, it's Brooke in Atlanta. Do you got me?
FUENTES: I have you. Yes.
BALDWIN: Hey, so we're live on TV. Listening to all of this, details of this thwarted plot. I mean, obviously, a tremendous, tremendous win for the government -- the U.S. government here. What's your first impression?
FUENTES: Well, my impression is that they did a great job of thwarting with all of these agencies in other countries to keep this a secret to be able to make the case go forward without having it be compromise.
With regard to the Quds force, this is the first time. They're kind of equivalent of the Iran SEAL Team 6. So, the idea that they would go carry a plot out in the U.S. without this going all the way to the president is pretty far-fetched. So, I think whether they'll be able to prove that connection is another matter, but it would be very likely that it had to go to the president. The last time the Quds force attempted a major violent operation in America was almost 20 years ago. They committed two bombings in Argentina and later, Interpol, international red notices were noticed back when I was on the executive committee of Interpol.
In that investigation by the Argentineans and the U.S. assisting, at that time it went all the way to the top of the Iranian government. So this has been a strike force type team for the government of Iran for decades.
BALDWIN: Do we know yet, Tom, how they caught these guys?
FUENTES: Well, it sounds like from the preliminary that I heard that DEA probably had an informant that was contacted that maybe members of the Quds force have been referred who they believe to be a member of a Mexican cartel. And that person, having been an informant, went to DEA and said I'm being recruited to carry out an assassination.
BALDWIN: So, to be clear, and as Attorney General Eric Holder outlined, you know, very gracious, very grateful to the Mexican government's cooperation here, calling it significant cooperation but not really saying much else, is it clear to you that there was a member of the Mexican drug gang involved or one of these individuals simply posing as an associate member of a cartel?
FUENTES: Well, it appears probably posing as a member. But you never know with an informant. They could play both sides against the middle. So, that's another area of caution, an area of needing the assistance of Mexicans.
If those undercover meetings were taking place in Mexico, that's a sovereign country. The United States government, the DEA and the FBI would need the permission of the Mexican government to even carry on those kinds of meetings without causing a diplomatic flap with Mexico down the line. And so, in that situation, it would be a joint investigation in Mexico with the Mexicans cooperating and also, you'd want their cooperation to make sure that the informant doesn't try to go to the highest bidder and maybe actually go to the cartel and solicit with them to actually carry out the attack.
And, of course, as we've seen events in Mexico, you know, there are a couple thousand murders a month going on down in Mexico, carrying out a bombing or a shooting or any other type of assassination. For any members of those cartels, that's a walk in the park for them. That's daily business.
BALDWIN: OK. Tom Fuentes, thank you for calling in. Stand by. I have more questions for you.
But I just want to pause and welcome my colleague, Isha Sesay, who is sitting down with me from CNN International as we continue our breaking news coverage here of this massive, massive plot thwarted by both the DEA and FBI in the United States.
Apparently, these two men are now charged, one of whom has been caught is in the United States. The other not in the United States, caught -- facing multiple charges of essentially an attempted assassination on the Saudi Arabia ambassador to the United States. And the fallout of really of this story is just now coming out.
ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, no doubt about that. So many questions that we still need on, there's so much more we need to know about the investigation itself and how it got on people's radars basically and how they were able to foil it just in time.
Let us get to Barbara Starr, Pentagon correspondent. She joins us now.
Barbara, what's the latest that you are hearing?
STARR: Well, I want to go back to that map you put up a minute ago, because, you know, there are so many people around the country that come to Washington, D.C. as tourist and visit the site here. And that Saudi embassy that you see is right along major thoroughfares here in downtown Washington, between the Watergate, next to the Watergate, and the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. This is really right in the heart of what so many tourists visit in Washington, D.C.
I think it is important to remember that at the press conference, law enforcement officials said the plot, as dire as it was, there was no specific restaurant name. It was more a fictitious or theoretical restaurant at this point that they were talking about, trying to blow the ambassador up or assassinate him when he would visit a restaurant. No specific restaurant named in downtown Washington.
That said, I think it really goes back to what we've been chatting about, the responsibility, how high up in the Iranian government does this go? Is this the Quds force, the militant -- the most militant wing of the revolutionary guard corps and the Iranian military engaging in yet another operation on its own? Does this go through the religious arm of the Iranian government? Is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad behind this?
That's going to be very key. And when we see these additional measures come out, that may give us some clue if we see more financial sanctions.
But the U.S. may be so frustrated with trying to cope with Iran at this point. We will see what actions the Obama administration decides to take and how they decide to target those actions so it affects whomever entity they believe this originated from, whoever actually directed this assassination plot.
SESAY: And, Barbara, the question is that, you know, sanctions are one thing, but the question is, what effect would they have on the regime, which now still seems pretty defiant in its dealings with the international community?
STARR: Well, that's the question. Now, Iran is under -- as you well know, of course, is under significant economic pressure. This is an economy that is faltering in Iran and many people in that country are feeling the economic strait of the situation in that country. The al Quds force is heavily invested in Iran's domestic economy. They are invested in businesses, in infrastructure, in everything from -- the allegations are from power plants to weapons factories to commercial businesses so they can generate the money and the funds for what they are doing.
What the U.S. has been doing for several years now is striking against that through Treasury Department sanctions, sanctioning businesses, sanctioning banks, Iranian banks and any international banks that deal with Iran. For some time now, the Treasury Department, at the highest levels -- that this goes back to the Bush administration, it should be said, has been sending international financial teams abroad to talk to the international banking committee and to get them to cut their ties to Iranian banks. If they can cut those ties and give the Iranians no place to invest, no place to hold their money overseas, no place to spend their money overseas, that's been the core of the strategy -- attack them financially, cause the economic hardship and that way, you cause the regime to weaken.
The question that we face this afternoon is whether the strategy is working, if they are able to feel confident in this militant wing of the Iranian government to launch these kinds of alleged plots.
BALDWIN: But also, Barbara Starr, this is Brooke, by the way. I just want to chime in and ask you one more question because I thought you brought it up before and I think it's worth reiterating.
You know, the other question is, then, connect the dots between Iran and Saudi Arabia and you made the point earlier that had this other variable that being Syria, right? And we know the King Abdullah has come down hard on the government of Syria, Bashar al Assad, cracking on these you know, demonstrations for months and months and months.
STARR: Why would --
BALDWIN: That may be the connection.
STARR: Right. You know, we will see. But what would motivate this element of Iran to go after the Saudi ambassador Al-Jubeir. Adel is the man who is very close to the Saudi royal family. He has worked for King Abdullah directly. He has worked for the previous king, the late King Fhad. Adel is really the face of King Abdullah in the United States with the U.S. government.
King Abdullah has come down on very hard on Bashar al Assad's action inside Syria. This is a matter of increasing contention in the Arab world. The Iranians see Bashar al Assad and Syria as one of their key agent. And I can tell you right now the U.S. government, the U.S. intelligence community, the Pentagon, all elements of the U.S. government keeping a very close eye on Iran, how much they are backing Bashar al Assad, but how much they are also giving up on him and already trying to back one of the potential successors to him.
If the Iranians feel that Bashar al Assad can no longer control his own country, they want to make sure in Iran that they have a say in who may be succeed him, in the Syrian Baathist party, who will come after Bashar al Assad because it is crucial to the agenda of Iran, Iran's military and international community to keep Syria in their ball court and that's something the U.S. doesn't want to see happen.
BALDWIN: Barbara, thank you so much. We'll come back to you momentarily. We'll also go to Reza Sayah who's spoken with the spokesperson of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who apparently laughed this off and officially called, this is a child's story, quoting the spokesperson. We'll get to them in just a moment.
But I do want to bring in Peter Bergen who is now on the phone.
Peter, obviously, the target that we keep talking about is Adel al- Jubeir, the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the U.S. You know him. Tell us a little bit more.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Adel Al- Jubeir is one of the, you know -- arguably, one of the most important people in the Saudi national security establishment. Not only is he the Saudi ambassador to the United States. He's also very close to King Abdullah, the king of Saudi Arabia. He's been a long time advisor to him.
You know, when I visited Saudi Arabia in 2005, it was Adel al-Jubeir who was on the right-hand side of the King Abdullah, sort of telling him who the guests were and has been a long-time advisor to him, somebody who has lived in the United States for many, many years, who has lived in Washington for many years even before he was at the ambassadorial level. He had other level positions inside the Saudi embassy in Washington.
He's a very intelligence guy, understands the United States very well. And if indeed the allegations in this plot are true, it wouldn't be surprising that the Iranians would target him in particular since he's such a key foreign policy advisor to King Abdullah. And, of course, Saudi Arabia and Iran had been fighting in the sense a proxy war for years, in the Gulf.
I mean, the most recent example of which is in Bahrain where, of course, Saudi Arabia sent troops in to help suppress the Bahrainian revolution in recent months, which they interpret as really Iran, as sort of an Iran-inspired revolution that threatens them with their own somewhat sizable share of occupation in the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia where so much of the oil actually is.
BALDWIN: Peter, given your knowledge -- extensive knowledge of the region, specifically Iran, as we're talking about al Quds and how it's the most militant wing of the Iranian revolutionary guard and really one of the major questions is, would President Ahmadinejad had known about this directive to assassinate the Saudi ambassador? Would that have been likely, the president's knowing of this?
BERGEN: I mean, I think to -- I mean, it's hard for me to actually work out what the all Quds' force relationship is exactly to Ahmadinejad. But, I mean, it would defy kind of commonsense something so important as an assassination of a major ambassador in Washington, D.C., it would be something that would have not been signed off at the highest levels of the Iranian regime. It just -- that would defy commonsense.
BALDWIN: What about -- OK. Peter Bergen, thank you very much. Got to sneak in a quick break. More of this breaking news here.
I'm Brooke Baldwin, here alongside Isha Sesay.
CNN NEWSROOM will be right back.
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