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Alleged Plot to Kill Saudi Ambassador Foiled; Christie Endorses Romney For President; Iran Possibly Behind Assassination Attempt of Saudi Arabian Ambassador; Israel and Hamas Reach Possible Prisoner Exchange Deal
Aired October 11, 2011 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. Top of the hour here. Brooke Baldwin, alongside with Isha Sesay, as we continue this breaking story here.
Two men, one, a naturalized U.S. citizen, another, an Iranian, both charge, facing multiple counts, essentially an attempted assassination on the Saudi ambassador to the United States. I got multiple to talk this hour.
But I want to begin with Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf, what do you make of this?
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Well, it's obviously a huge development, Brooke. It's not often that the United States government is charging a foreign government with attempting to assassinate an ambassador, a foreign ambassador, right here in the nation's capital, especially the ambassador of a close ally like Saudi Arabia.
Ambassador Adel Al-Jubeir is very well-known here in Washington, very well-known probably to lot of our viewers over the years, when he was a national security to the then crown prince, now the king, Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. He was a frequent guest here on CNN.
In more recent years, since becoming ambassador, he's taken a much lower key. But he's very well-known behind the scenes. He plays an active role in promoting Saudi interests in Washington, throughout the United States. He goes back to Saudi Arabia, to the kingdom all the time to brief the king and other top officials on what is going on.
So he's well-known. Not a huge surprise that he's somebody that the Iranian government, President Ahmadinejad would hate, because the Saudis and the Iranians have had a tough relationship over the years. The Saudis are deeply concerned about Iran's nuclear program. They're worried that if Iran were to become a nuclear power, it would endanger the Saudi kingdom.
There's a huge rivalry between Saudi Arabia and an Iran as a result. This is obviously a major development today when you see the FBI director and the attorney general of the United States make these serious allegations against the Iranian government, that elements of the Iranian government, Al-Quds, was directly involved in plotting an assassination against of the Saudi ambassador. That's obviously a huge deal -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Wolf, thank you.
And just quickly to run down as we have this 21-page complaint from the Department of Justice, who we heard from just a little while ago. I just want to run down the counts. Conspiracy. These are the charges, conspiracy to murder a foreign official, count two, foreign travel and use of interstate and foreign commerce facilities in the commission of murder-for-hire, count three conspiracy to engage in foreign travel and use interstate facilities and foreign commerce facilities in the commission of murder of hire.
Four, conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction and, five, conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism transcending national boundaries.
And as we heard from U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder earlier, he said they will hold Iran accountable -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Let's play for our viewers some of what the attorney general actually said a short time ago as he laid out details of this alleged plot. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good afternoon.
Today, the Department of Justice is announcing charges against two people who allegedly attempted to carry out a deadly plot that was directed by factions of the Iranian government to assassinate a foreign ambassador here in the United States. Manssor Arbabsiar, a nationalized United States citizen who holds an Iranian passport and was arrested last month in New York, is accused of working with members of an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps to devise an international murder-for-hire scheme targeting the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States.
According to the complaint filed today in the southern district of New York, Arbabsiar is alleged to have orchestrated a $1. 5 million assassination plot with Gholam Shakuri, an Iranian-based member of the Quds Force, and other Iranian co-conspirators. Now, the Quds Force is a unit of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. It is also suspected of sponsoring attacks against the coalition forces in Iraq, and was designated by the Department of Treasury in 2007 for providing material support to the Taliban and other terrorist organizations.
The complaint alleges that this conspiracy was conceived, was sponsored, and was directed from Iran, and constitutes a flagrant violation of U.S. and international law, including a convention that explicitly protects diplomats from being harmed. In addition to holding these individual conspirators accountable for their alleged role in this plot, the United States is committed to holding Iran accountable for its actions.
Arbabsiar and Shakuri are charged with conspiracy to murder a foreign official, conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction, and conspiracy to commit an act of international terrorism, among other charges. Arbabsiar has been in custody since September the 29th, 2011, while Shakuri, based in Iran, remains at large.
Now, according to the complaint, earlier this spring Arbabsiar met with a confidential informant from the Drug Enforcement Administration who was posing as an associate of a violent international drug trafficking cartel. The meeting, which took place in May, and in Mexico, was the first of a series that would result in an international conspiracy by elements of the Iranian government to pay the informant $1. 5 million to murder the ambassador on United States soil, according to documents that we filed today in court.
According to the complaint, those discussions led Arbabsiar, with Shakuri's approval, to facilitate the wiring of approximately $100,000 into a bank account in the United States as a down payment for the attempted assassination. The complaint also states that in the days since the defendant's arrest, he has confessed to his participation in the alleged plot, as well as provided other valuable information about elements of the Iranian government's role in it.
The disruption of this alleged plot marks a significant achievement by our law enforcement and intelligence agencies, as well as the close cooperation of our partners in the Mexican government. I want to commend the outstanding work of the agencies that were involved in this investigation, including the FBI and Director Mueller, who is here with us today, as well as the Drug Enforcement Administration and Michele Leonhart.
Their agents and their analysts worked closely with prosecutors here at the department's national security division, as well as in the southern district of New York, over these many months to monitor this alleged conspiracy, obtain valuable information, and bring one of the primary plotters to justice. I want to thank them for their remarkable work.
And now I would like to turn it over to Director Mueller.
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Good afternoon.
This case illustrates that we live in a world where borders and boundaries are increasingly irrelevant, a world where individuals from one country sought to conspire with a drug trafficking cartel in another country to assassinate a foreign official on United States soil. And though it reads like the pages of a Hollywood script, the impact would have been very real and many lives would have been lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Want to go straight to Reza Sayah in Islamabad, who I know has been following this with us as well.
I know, Reza, you reached out to the spokesperson for President Ahmadinejad, because one of the big questions is, what would he have known and this spokesperson essentially, you said, laughed at you.
REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it was a strong denial by the spokesperson of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Ali Akbar Javanfekr. He mockingly said, this is a quote, "This is a child's story. It's not the first time America has come up with a story like this."
This is interesting. He said Americans are facing a domestic problem and this is an attempt by them to distract the public by trying to convince that there is an outside threat and he went on to say, from our perspective, this is a fabrication, America has become an expert at making false allegations against other countries, so obviously a strong denial by the spokesperson of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He did tell us that he has not read through the entire complaint, but he said at first glance it seems like a fabrication.
BALDWIN: Reza, one more you, because we're talking a lot about Al- Quds. It's the militant wing of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Had a guest on earlier, former FBI, essentially calling it like the SEAL Team Six of this wing.
My question would be, what sort of communication or relationship would President Ahmadinejad have with Al-Quds?
SAYAH: Well, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a former Revolutionary Guard member. And, of course, the Quds is a faction of the Revolutionary Guard, but it's simply not clear what kind of influence, what kind of sway the president would have on a group like Al-Quds and their operations outside of Iran.
But, Brooke, one thing that is important to remember, and I think people lose sight of this, these are serious allegations but at this point, they are just allegations. The fact is, these are two countries, the U.S. and Iran that are also engaged in an information war. The fact is, both of these countries and their leaders have made serious allegations against one another that didn't turn out to be true oftentimes, or they didn't turn out to be as serious as first thought.
The question is, is this allegation one of them? Is this allegation, whatever happened, as serious as what the Justice Department is saying? Remember you have the plot. And then the big thing, the serious accusation is this plot that had links with factions of the Iranian government, which is an unprecedented accusation against the Iranian government.
And if you look at this regime's history, it doesn't fit their M.O. Is it possible that they were involved? Certainly. Do these allegations need to be proven? Do we need to see more details? I would say certainly before jumping to conclusions.
BALDWIN: OK, Reza Sayah, thank you.
SESAY: Want to bring in one of my colleagues from CNN International, our own Hala Gorani, who is actually in D.C., to talk a little bit more about all of this and the connections between these countries, talk about Iran and allegations of targeting the Saudi ambassador to the United States. Hala, give me a sense of your read of this alleged plot. You know the region well and its geopolitics.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this cuts right at the heart of sectarian tensions in the Middle East. This is beyond the plot.
This is something that in the Middle East has been a situation that has caused heightened tensions between Shia Iran and the Sunni kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I will take you back a few months to the uprisings in Bahrain, which was a mainly Shia-led uprising in Bahrain.
You will remember Saudi sent in forces and troops to crush that uprising. And then you have uprisings in the eastern part of Saudi Arabia that are mainly Shiite uprisings and that the king has said will be crushed with -- quote -- "an iron fist."
There you have a tension between the two countries that can explain why it is conceivable that an Iranian plot might be directed at assassinating or killing the Saudi ambassador. So this is really the regional picture for you here where you have two big Middle Eastern powers, one Sunni-led kingdom and the other of course a Shia nation of more than 80 million people.
This, Isha, is a picture in the Middle East that explains some of the tensions in Iraq as well between Shias and Sunnis. So this will tell you why two countries that are Muslim countries, one Persian and one Arab, have a lot at stake in proxy battles as well in the region. So this explains a little bit of the background of why, Isha and Brooke, there might be a willingness by Iran to target some key leadership figures in Saudi Arabia or outside of Saudi Arabia among the Saudi diplomacy if indeed this alleged plot proves to be true.
SESAY: Hala, another point that I think is important for to us bring out for our viewers is the status of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad there in Iran at this particular point in time. The question is being asked, as you would expect, what might he have known about this alleged plot, how far up might this have gone allegedly?
It's important to speak out, if you can speak a little bit to this, the fact that Ahmadinejad is himself in quite a precarious situation back home in Iran with a great amount of tensions and division supposedly within the government.
GORANI: Right. He is right now fragile within his own country, with forces inside of his own country threatening his leadership.
But one thing that we have to add, Isha, of course, is the nuclear program in Iran. This is something that is very much a cause for concern for Saudi Arabia, for other Gulf countries. They consider this an existential threat to them. Perhaps you might go as far as saying in the way that Israel considers a potential nuclear program by Iran to be an existential threat to it.
So you have not just only sectarian intentions and a battle for leadership and influence in the region, but you also have this military dimension involving Saudi Arabia and Iran where you have these two big superpower countries in the region very much at odds on more than one level.
This is the background with which you have to read the alleged plot that was announced today by the United States Justice Department, Isha.
SESAY: Hala Gorani joining us there from D.C. with some excellent analysis, Hala, thank you -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: And coming up after the break, we're going to talk to Bob Baer, former CIA. And Bob knows a lot about attempted assassination plots on high-ranking officials. Working with the CIA, he helped thwarted many. We will talk to him about that. Also, he has tremendous insight on both the Iranian government and the Al-Quds force.
Stay here, breaking news after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, welcome back to CNN, a busy, busy Tuesday.
Before we get you back that international breaking story, I have got to pause and take you live to New Hampshire, where, according to a source of our own, CNN's John King, this man, New York Governor Chris Christie, is about to endorse Mitt Romney.
Take a listen.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: He brings the experience as governor of Massachusetts, knowing how government works, not a legislator trying to figure out how to use executive power, but an executive who has used executive power, will use it to make American lives better.
That's why I'm endorsing Mitt Romney for president of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CHRISTIE: And as Republicans, as Republicans, our number-one goal this year has to be to preserve our American way of life.
And that American way of life was built by entrepreneurship, was built by allowing the unleashing of American spirit and American inventiveness on the economy and growing a bigger and bigger pie.
I'll tell you the biggest difference between Romney and the president of the United States. The president of the United States has unleashed his campaign strategy already. And that is to divide America, to tell Americans who are not doing well right now and who are scared, he wants to tell them that the pie of America is only so big and that, if you want more, we have to take it from others. I know that Mitt Romney believes that the American pie can be grown bigger, that it can be an infinite size because of the infinite nature of American ingenuity and effort and character.
That's what this election is going to be about. And, in America, people are going to decide that they want to believe in American optimism over American division, that they want to believe in somebody who believes America's future can be greater, not someone who is trying to divide an ever-shrinking pie among the American people.
And so it has been really, in the end, an easy decision for me. I know that America needs a new course. And I want it to be with the person who I believe will be the best person to lead America on that course.
And that's Governor Mitt Romney.
So, I'm thrilled to be here today, Mitt. Thank you very much.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
ROMNEY: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
ROMNEY: Thank you, Chris.
Let me turn to questions you have.
Mark?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) the Perry campaign approved that. What do you think of the tactic of impugning someone's religion as part of a campaign?
And, Governor Romney, you have been silent up until now. What do you think about what happened on Friday?
CHRISTIE: Well, listen, my attitude about this is the same as my attitude has been about those folks in New Jersey who disparaged in both parties my decision to appoint a Muslim judge.
These type of religious matters have nothing to do with the quality of somebody's ability to lead. You have to evaluate their record, evaluate their character and their integrity, not based upon their religious beliefs, but, based upon who they are.
And I think that any campaign that associates itself with that type of conduct is beneath the office of president of the United States, in my view.
ROMNEY: Mark, Governor Perry selected an individual to introduce him who then used religion as a basis for which he said he would endorse Governor Perry and a reason to not support me. And Governor Perry then said that introduction just hit it out of the park. I just don't believe that that kind of divisiveness based upon religion has a place in this country.
I believe in the spirit of the founders when they suggested in crafting this country that we would be a nation that tolerated other people, different faiths, that we would be a place of religious diversity. And that respect, they embodied in the Constitution itself, in Article 6 of the Constitution, saying a religious test would not become part of selecting a candidate in the United States.
I believe in the spirit of that embodiment and in the nature of the nation that has been crafted. And I would call upon Governor Perry to repudiate the sentiment and the remarks made by that pastor.
BALDWIN: Well, It was just a couple of days that the nation was waiting and wondering if the man on the left side of your screen, the New Jersey governor, would in fact throw his hat in the ring and decide to try to run for the GOP nomination for president of the United States.
We now know he will not and we now know he's officially endorsed that man, the front-runner in this race here, just hours ahead of that GOP debate tonight at Dartmouth College.
Now back to our breaking international story -- Isha Sesay, to you.
SESAY: Brooke, thank you, yes, indeed.
Let's get a little bit more on this alleged plot. Let's break it down a little further for you
I want to bring in Bob Baer, formerly with the CIA, to get his read on the details that are coming out to us on this day.
Bob, great to have you with us. What do you make of this alleged plot?
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Well, I'm taking this very seriously.
We are already on difficult terms with Iran over the nuclear program. And there are lot of people looking for reasons to attack Iran, and this might be one of them. Now, on the other hand, I have a problem with the fact that the Iranians would have used Iranian nationals.
This is completely uncharacteristic. They have always used proxies, whether it's Lebanese, Hezbollah, even American citizens, to conduct assassinations in this country, but rarely have they ever sent their own people in this country to attack targets here.
SESAY: And to be clear, Bob, let me just remind our viewers that the two individuals that are being charged, one is a naturalized U.S. citizen holding both Iranian and U.S. passports, and the other one is an Iran-based member of Iran's Quds Force. BAER: Yes. And the Quds Force, keep in mind, is their arm of terror. It was the Quds Force who was behind an attack on American soldiers in Iraq in 2007, killed five of them. It was the Quds Force who blew up our Marines in Beirut in 1983.
SESAY: So, Bob, knowing Iran as you do, knowing its power structure, when you hear that this alleged plot was directed by elements of the Iranian government, aside from the Quds Force, who else are you looking at? Who else is of interest to you?
BAER: Well, that would be the only arm that would do it, unless there is a renegade part of the Iranian government that supported this, that wanted to make the government fail or wanted to make the democracy movement fail. Or some people would even say that Iran would welcome a limited attack on its nuclear facilities simply to change the message because of its bad economy and the demonstrations. But we simply don't know enough about it right now.
SESAY: And when you hear that -- you hear the attorney general saying they will go after Iran to hold them accountable, talk of the possibility of further sanctions, I mean, what is your sense in terms of the usefulness of sanctions or the effectiveness of sanctions, I should say?
BAER: Well, I think we are out of sanctions at this point.
You would have to get the Europeans in on this. They haven't done enough to change the policy of the government. And it's -- you know, again, this goes back to the potential for escalation between us and Iran. And certainly Saudi Arabia would like us to do something about Iran. And if this plot is real, the Saudis will push us to do something.
SESAY: We are going to wait to get some more reaction.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Hey, Bob Baer, this is Brooke.
Here's my question. You're former CIA. You know how this works in terms of, you know, I don't even know how many assassination attempts are thwarted on high-ranking officials each and every year I guess globally. My question to you, though, is this angle that we have not entirely explored that is also part of this complaint with regard to Mexico and how the attorney general would not entirely elaborate just essentially by saying thank you to the Mexican president for his significant cooperation here.
But what do you make of this, how one of these men apparently ended up meeting with someone undercover, I believe it was DEA in Mexico? It was a meeting in May. He wanted $1.5 million. And that seems to be sort of the beginning of the end for this plot. Does that strike you as odd?
BAER: Well, on one hand, Mexico -- we have a porous border with Mexico and it would be easy to get people across.
On the other hand, we could be dealing here with fabricators, people going through the motions of assassinating the Saudi ambassador who are really out for money. Any time narcotics comes into one of these investigations, it sort of undercuts the credibility that there really was a plot.
The Iranians, when they do an assassination, it's never about money. It's always about skill, getting it done, getting away, and covering their tracks. So these multiple meetings, bringing governments in, other governments, using narcotics, and getting caught, actually coming into the country, it all seems fairly sloppy to me, because if the Iranians really put their mind to assassinating the Saudi ambassador in Washington, they could do it.
BALDWIN: It's frightening. Bob Baer, thank you so much for calling in -- Isha.
SESAY: I want to bring in Robert Jordan now, the former U.S. ambassador to Jordan, to get his take on this.
Mr. Jordan, thank you -- former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, he's going to be joining us a short time from now. We haven't actually established contact with him just yet.
But I do want to go to the White House, and bring in White House correspondent Jessica Yellin to get the very latest on what she is hearing from the administration as more details emerge on this alleged plot -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Isha.
Well, first of all, we know that the president, as had been reported, was first briefed on this in June. A senior administration official tells me that this administration will not tolerate the targeting of a dip on our shores.
So what will the U.S. do in retaliation? At this time, my guidance is we should expect further steps to try to isolate Iran and that the U.S. will work with international partners toward that end.
We have multiple sources telling us that we should expect at the very least new sanctions against Iran and we should expect something announced later today towards that end. Also, of course, there could be further action at the Security Council, as you have heard others say.
What a senior official tells me is that they think this is a dangerous escalation by Iran and a flagrant violation of international law that will hurt Iran not just here in the U.S., but especially overseas, where it will not be looked upon fondly that they have attacked -- attempted -- I'm sorry -- attempted to attack or set a plot to attack another member of the Middle Eastern nations, a partner nation in the Middle East.
And the big picture, again, as the White House and no doubt the rest of the administration would like to see is that this will further isolate Iran. Now, I can add to this that this administration has said that they have been in regular contact with the Saudi government throughout this investigation and has had contact with Ambassador Al- Jubeir as this has unfolded -- Isha.
SESAY: White House correspondent Jessica Yellin -- Jessica, thank you. Stand by for us. We will check in with you a short time from now. Thank you.
Joining us now on the line is Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
Mr. Jordan, thank you so much for joining us.
I want to get your sense as to why Iran might have allegedly gone after the Iranian -- gone after I should say the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States. Why?
ROBERT JORDAN, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: Well, it's very important to understand that the Saudis and the Iranians believe that they are in a mortal battle for supremacy in the Middle East.
The Saudis view Iran as a threat to their hegemony in the Arab world and Iran has been insinuating itself into many of the struggles of the Middle East in a way that is completely contrary to the Saudi national interest and, in fact, of course, in many ways to the U.S. national interest.
So, Ambassador Al-Jubeir, who, by the way, is a very close friend of mine, is at the forefront of articulating the Arab policy, the Saudi policy that the Iranians are so desperate to counteract. And I think he is a target. There is credibility to this story. And the Saudis have viewed Iran as a threat, not only with the Shia in their eastern province and in Bahrain, but throughout the entire Arab world.
SESAY: You just pointed out that Adel Al-Jubeir is a good friend of yours. How might he take such news?
JORDAN: I'm sorry. I didn't hear your question.
SESAY: You said that Adel Al-Jubeir, the Saudi ambassador, is a friend of yours. I'm just wondering, knowing him as you do, how he would receive such news, his likely reaction to word that this was a chilling and well-planned alleged plot?
JORDAN: Ambassador Al-Jubeir is a pro.
He, when I knew him the best, was the foreign policy adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah, now the king. He is someone of impeccable credentials. His father's a diplomat. He is consummate diplomat and is someone who I think can be counted on to be a collaborative, positive force in the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia.
So it's not only an attack on Saudi Arabia, but it's an attack on the United States in many ways to target this ambassador. SESAY: What is your sense of the repercussions this will have in the region, these allegations?
JORDAN: I think that Iran will be further isolated if these allegations are true. Iran will be viewed much as North Korea is viewed, as a rogue nation outside of the legitimate parameters of international discourse and will really find it really difficult, I think, to proceed in the family of nations. This is a -- in my view, a colossal blender on the part of Iran, if the allegations are true.
SESAY: Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, we thank you for your time. Thank you.
BALDWIN: A colossal blunder, he says.
SESAY: Yes.
BALDWIN: We're talking here U.S., we're talking Iran. We're talking Saudi Arabia. And the fourth piece of this is Mexico. I want to bring in Juan Carlos Lopez with CNN Espanol. And can you help us understand how Mexico, how the involvement per attorney general Eric Holder and the significant cooperation of the Mexican government in supporting this assassination.
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, I've been looking at the indictment and according to the indictment, Manssor Arbabsiar, had his dealings with those until Mexico and met with a confidential source who had already worked with the United States.
He had been charged with -- he received drug charges in a state and in exchange for his investigation, those charges were dismissed and he has been a paid source of paid informant to the U.S. that's where the conversation started and that's where the negotiations started and it was through his contacts in Mexico that he started the conversations.
This confidential source informed tape recorded the conversations. And remember, the last trip that Manssor makes to Mexico is denied entry and is sent back to the United States. He's a naturalized U.S. citizen. He believed he was dealing with a Mexican cartel.
According to the description of the indictment, the cartel they referred to is very similar to the Zetas, and this is a cartel formed by former military and police officers who have military training and who have access to the high caliber weapons.
The Zetas are very well known for carrying out terrorist attacks and attacking civilians in Mexico, but so far there is no evidence of them carrying out attacks in the United States, but nothing of this magnitude, such as a bomb in a restaurant to kill the ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
BALDWIN: Juan Carlos Lopez, thank you so much for the Mexican angle here in this tremendous story that we're breaking today. Thank you.
BALDWIN: Also, more breaking news. We are just getting word of a prisoner exchange involving Israel and Gilad Shalit. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SESAY: Welcome back, everyone.
Indeed it is a very busy Tuesday. Some other news to bring you up to speed on, news that a deal tentatively has been struck between the Israeli government and Hamas to see the release of captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, who was captured back in September, 2006. I want to bring Kevin Flower who is our Jerusalem bureau chief to get more details on this deal. I understand that Mr. Netanyahu spoke a while ago?
KEVIN FLOWER, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: It's really been in the last hour and a half that the contours of this deal have become clear. Now, what we've heard from the Israeli prime minister's office directly is that a deal has been struck between the Palestinian militant groups how are holding Gilad Shalit, Hamas among them, and the Israeli government that would receive somewhere around 1,000 Palestinian prisoners free in exchange for Gilad Shalit.
Now, Gilad Shalit is an Israeli soldier captured by Hamas and other militant groups operating in the Gaza troop in the summer of 2006, and his five-year long captivity has become a major issue here in Israeli society. Every year on the anniversary of his capture, every birthday that he celebrates in captivity has become sort of a day of national mourning here in Israel.
So news of a possible deal here, very big news in Israel. And likewise this is huge news if this deal comes through and is a huge deal for the Palestinians and a real coup for Hamas as well if they are successful in releasing that many Palestinian prisoners in this deal.
So at this point I must caution that there have been many times before where word of a deal has been sort of imminent and it has collapsed at the last minute. We seem to have gone a bit further here. Both Hamas and the Israeli government are saying that it's a done deal. We do not know the details about all of the Palestinian prisoners that will be released or the exact details of the way it will be done.
We're told by one group that this exchange will be taking place in stages. So that the first stage we will see a certain number of Palestinian prisoners released. The second stage we would see Gilad Shalit released to a third country, Egypt, most likely. And then in the third stage, the rest of the Palestinian prisoners would be released and Gilad Shalit would come home.
Again, these are all details that have not been announced at this point, but this is what we are expecting. The Israeli cabinet is meeting right now. They are talking about this deal. They are expected to be voting on it, but it's safe to assume that the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would not have called this meeting or made these announcements if he did not think that a positive vote was anything but assured, Isha. SESAY: Kevin, thank you. Let me bring in my international colleague who can speak on this developing story. Hala, do you remember last time we got any proof of live video or message from Gilad Shalit? What do we know about the condition that he may be in?
GORANI: Well, the last time was -- I cannot give you the precise day but we have seen video proof of life of Gilad Shalit over the last several years. He has a thin build to begin with. He did look thin.
But what is interesting about this is one of the things Prime Minister Netanyahu said this is a best deal we could have expected, and I'm paraphrasing, given the current situation in the wider Arab world. Whether or not this is preparing people for possibly not wanting people to read this as a sign of weakness coming from the Israeli government, if indeed this deal involves the most prominent Palestinian prisoner held by the Israelis as well as up to 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Gilad Shalit, which we believe is in the Gaza Strip, then he is preparing those people who think that they are giving too much in exchange for Gilad Shalit.
One of the things, though, that you have to remember about Israel, and this is something that Kevin Flower was saying from Jerusalem, is that this is a prisoner who was abducted by Palestinians, who is considered sort of a national symbol as far as Israel is concerned, and his return to the country will be an extremely emotional event for Israel. So these are two things that we need to keep in mind, politically on one hand and then another national event. This is extremely significant.
SESAY: Hala, appreciate it, thank you.
Brooke, his family have been working tirelessly to keep this story front and center to ensure Gilad Shalit is released, and it would seem a possible deal has been done. We will see.
BALDWIN: If I may, let's bounce back to the other breaking international story, an announcement from the Department of Justice, that two men, one a naturalized U.S. citizen with Iranian and U.S. passports and the other an Iranian citizen -- one is still at large -- facing multiple counts here in this now thwarted assassination attempt of the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States.
We've been culling through - it's a 25-page -- or 21-page federal complaint. I'm going to read for you some snip pets as far as the how and when with regard to recorded conversations taken directly from this federal complaint against one of the defendants, Manssor Arbabsiar. And this was and the confidential source were talking about the way the assassin would actually kill the Saudi Arabian ambassador.
Arbabsiar says, quote, "He wants you to kill this guy." And the source says, "There's going to be like American people there in the restaurant. You want me to do it outside or in the restaurant?" Arbabsiar answers "It doesn't matter how you do it."
And we have a little more I just want to read with you, the words of another -- the same terror suspect telling a source about how they wanted this man killed and how much he cared that there might be collateral damage or innocent people hurt. It says "They want that guy, the ambassador done," meaning killed. "If 100 go with him, forget them." But he didn't say "forget."
Talking with the U.S. paid confidential source about planning the Saudi ambassador's assassination, that the confidential source says this. "I'm going to blow him," the ambassador, "up, shoot him, whatever you want." Arbabsiar says, "Yes, it doesn't matter. Whatever is easy, how is possible for you."
Let's go to Jill Dougherty, who has been following this really ever since the story broke. And Jill, let's talk about these sanctions coming down from treasury involving these five individuals tied to this plot. Tell me about this.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right. We've been talking about the sanctions, and now we know that the Treasury Department is going to be leveling these sanctions or targeting these sanctions against five individuals who are tied to this plot. And that is important because it's no longer -- we're not talking about a general sanctions regime.
Up to this point, the United States has targeted individual Iranian, and many of them involved in the members of the Quds force. And we have been talking about that over the past hour. That is the part of the revolutionary guard corps in Iran which is not only military but it also has tentacles throughout the Iranian economy.
And, also, we're told that the State Department will be and is, I'm sure, talking now to other countries, describing what happened. And one of the reasons that the state department has tried to talk to other countries and get them on board is that just by having the United States impose sanctions won't do the trick, that the United States needs other countries. It needs Europeans and many other people. If it's to have some type of an effect, because, after all, the United States at this point has very little economic relationship with Iran. It's other countries that do. And so that's why the United States wants to get them aboard.
And Brooke, as we were standing here thinking about all of this, I think it's really important to point out to our viewers that, you know, how serious it is to allegedly try to kill an ambassador. An ambassador is a representative of a country, the property, that embassy. And in fact, I live very close to the Saudi embassy. I look at it every morning --
BALDWIN: Oh, wow.
DOUGHERTY: -- As I go to work. It's legally considered property as if you were in Saudi Arabia. That is Saudi Arabian territory and trying to kill an ambassador is very serious.
Another point that I would make is that Robert Mueller of the FBI said, which is they believe -- they are alleging that these men who wanted to plot had other plots in mind against other people here in the United States. Not a lot of details on that, but that would also be very significant.
This, you can say, is really huge. Again, all allegations at this point, but the allegations are enormously serious on many different levels -- the relationship between the U.S. and Iran, the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia, the relationship, the enmity between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and then this amazing wrinkle of using allegedly a Mexican hit man or --
BALDWIN: Right.
DOUGHERTY: -- or Mexicans to carry out the plot. It's just as Mueller said, it's a Hollywood script.
BALDWIN: It's a Hollywood script he said with very realistic implications, and if I remember his phraseology, he said that this would have just been just an opening act I think is what you were referencing.
DOUGHERTY: Right, precisely.
BALDWIN: And the Saudi embassy, right there by the Watergate Hotel along the Potomac near the Kennedy Center, you see it each and every day. We don't know -- we know the intended target was obviously the Saudi ambassador at a specific restaurant, but we don't know where that restaurant would have been?
DOUGHERTY: No, we don't. The understanding is that apparently it's a restaurant that the ambassador frequented. And they did not say -- well, they discussed, apparently, allegedly, do you do it inside the restaurant? Do you do it outside?
BALDWIN: Right.
DOUGHERTY: And the crucial part for the Mexican was to allegedly provide the explosives, the "WMD" as they have referred to it, which would be used for in this plot.
BALDWIN: He was a Saudi ambassador, conspiracy to commit international terrorism. Jill Dougherty, thank you so much.
So still some questions to come, including what does this mean for the security of the United States? We have two security experts with the details, Tom Fuentes and Fran Townsend live continuing this conversation after this quick break.
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BALDWIN: We are a mere 10 minutes away from "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer who will undoubtedly continue covering this breaking news story of the thwarted assassination attempt of the Saudi Ambassador.
BLITZER: I've known him for many years. He's a graduate of Georgetown University here in Washington, spent a whole career basically in Washington, former national security adviser to the then crown prince, now king of Saudi Arabia, king Abdullah. So he's very much involved in U.S./Saudi relations across the board. We'll be following the breaking news. Enormous ramifications of what this potentially means. What will the U.S. government, the Obama administration do to retaliate, if you will, against the Iranian regime if in fact this is all proven if al Quds, part of the Revolutionary Guard, were directly responsible for plotting to kill the Saudi ambassador and kill some other people in Washington here as well.
Mike Rogers, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, has been fully briefed on this. He'll be joining us live at the top of the hour. We're going to go through point by point by point what we know specifically, what we don't know, who was involved, who wasn't involved, what this might mean looking ahead. So we have a lot of news to cover in the situation room.
BALDWIN: Thank you for that, sir. In the time remaining let's continue this conversation with two experts here. We have Tom Fuentes and also Fran Townsend.
Tom, I just want to begin with you here as we hear about these two men charged, one of whom is in the United States, the other still at large, charged with this attempted assassination, or thwarted assassination attempt of the Saudi ambassador. You hear that this involves the Mexican government, obviously Iran, as you reference the SEAL team six of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
You hear all of these pieces of this tremendously complicated puzzle. What's your reaction?
TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, my reaction is that it would have been sanctioned at the highest levels of the Iranian government to commit these acts and that it would not be the first time that they have conducted international acts of terrorism.
As I mentioned earlier, they conducted two major bombings in Argentina in the early '90s and the investigation in that case led all the way to the top of the Iranian government. And Interpol issued red notices about three years ago in connection with the members involved in that case. In that case the explosives were sent to Buenos Aires through diplomatic pouches from Iran. So they are bold and capable if they want to commit an outrageous act, which in this case it's hard to figure that the Saudis wouldn't consider this an act of war if they actually conducted this assassination.
SESAY: At this point, Tom, stay with us. I want to bring in Fran. Fran, what do you think the White House would have known -- how much would they have known, how involved would they have been in this operation when it unfolded.
FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: When I was in the White House, the ambassador was adviser to the now king of Saudi Arabia so there was no question that the White House would have been fully briefed and monitored the ongoing operation as it was unfolding. Remember FBI director Bob Mueller is in the White House briefing the president on plots and acts of terror every week. Remember the ambassador's relationship to the king of Saudi Arabia makes him a particular target here. And I will tell you Saudi Arabia understood -- has understood very well the capability of the Iranians, because for the longest time they would not post a Saudi ambassador to Iraq because they feared for his safety and that he might be targeted by Iran inside Iraq. And so this is -- this capability, this sort of threat is not a shock to Saudi Arabia.
BALDWIN: Fran, if I could just get one more question in. It's Brooke. As we're talking about these sanctions issued to these five individuals and Jill Dougherty reporting from the state department saying they're talking to other countries, we hear Attorney General Eric Holder saying Iran will be held accountable. What might that really mean?
TOWNSEND: It's very significant. When you look at the list of five people targeted with sanctions, this goes and includes the al Quds force and the person that was responsible for this operation. What does that tell us? Not only was there clearly an informant but it suggests there was electronic surveillance that was used. If they could tract this all the way inside to the top of the Quds force they know Iranian government at its highest level sanctioned this assassination.
BALDWIN: Fran Townsend, Tom Fuentes, thank you very much.
SESAY: Thank you. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back we're going to bring in Mohammed Jamjoom to give us some perspective on recent tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Stay with us for that and more breaking news.
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BALDWIN: Welcome back.
Of course, CNN can cover this story like no one else. We have folks globally, including Mohammed Jamjoom, who is in Abu Dhabi.
And Mohammed, we've heard from Reza Sayah in Islamabad, and we've already gotten reaction from Iran, essentially saying this whole story is a fabrication. I have yet to hear any reaction from Saudi Arabia. I know you've been trying. Have you gotten anywhere?
MOHAMMED JAMJOOM, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, the Saudis just aren't speaking yet. We're expecting that they will issue a statement soon. It's not a surprise. The Saudis don't usually talk to big stories like this as soon as they happen. It usually takes them a while to formulate some kind of a statement. It seems like right now they're letting the FBI and White House and other U.S. officials take the lead on this. I would expect probably a statement in the coming hours, maybe by tomorrow morning, but as of yet nothing from the Saudis.
BALDWIN: What about just big picture, Mohammed, the relationship between Iran and Saudi Arabia. They're certainly at odds. Can you extrapolate? JAMJOOM: That's right, Brooke. I mean, Saudi Arabia and Iran are foes of each other in this region. And what we've seen, we've heard other people speak about this, what we've seen the past few years, more and more proxy wars going on between Iran and Saudi Arabia in this region. It's really a battle for who's the most dominant regional force.
Now, you've seen this play out in countries like Yemen. In the north of Yemen a couple of years ago there was a rebellion. The Saudis were involved, the Iranians were involved. They were pointing fingers at each other, each saying the other country was trying to foment unrest.
Most recently and more importantly, Bahrain. Once the protest movement got under way in Bahrain this past February, in March you had Saudi forces and other GCC-backed forces going in to Bahrain to back the Sunni government of Bahrain. Iran saw that as a threat to them. The Saudis, the UAE, other forces were pointing fingers at Iran as trying to inspire the Shiite protest movement in Bahrain.
So a lot of tension between Saudi Arabia and Iran, a battle for dominancy in this region, and it doesn't seem like that tension is going away any time soon.
SESAY: Mohammed, it's Isha here. We have heard the U.S. say they will hold Iran accountable. What action do you expect Saudi Arabia to take?
JAMJOOM: We just don't know at this point, Isha. Even more interesting right now, beyond the dynamic of Iran and Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia and the U.S., you know, since the Arab spring really took root here in the region, we've seen a deterioration in the relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, a chilling effect going on because the Saudis saw the U.S. as supporting the revolutionary movement in Egypt and they don't like revolutionary movements going on in this region.
BALDWIN: We will wait and see. Mohammed Jamjoom, thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Isha Sesay at CNN International.
We're going to continue -- I was going to say Wolf Blitzer will continue this coverage, a very serious story with clearly international implications.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer starts right now.
