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Herman Cain Now Leads GOP Polls; Buffett Steps Up New Tax Campaign; One Pennsylvania City Declares Bankruptcy; BlackBerry Outages; Arrest in Celebrity Hacking Case; Obama Hosts South Korea's President; Interview with BET Founder Bob Johnson; Expert Witness Criticizes Murray

Aired October 13, 2011 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin this morning with the presidential race and a new reminder of just how volatile this election may prove to be.

For the third time in a month, the Republican field has a new frontrunner, Herman Cain. He's a political newcomer who was virtually invisible just a few weeks ago.

Paul Steinhauser, CNN's deputy political director -- what do you think, Paul? Does this say more about Cain or more about how maybe unenthused Republican voters are right now?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Definitely a lot of vote, Kyra. Good points right there. And this, as you said, has been one wild ride in the battle for the GOP nomination. At least if you look at the polls. So let's look at this poll everybody is buzzing about. NBC/"Wall Street Journal." It came out last night. And there you go. On the top, Herman Cain, the former Godfather's Pizza CEO, businessman and radio talk show host.

Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, at 23 percent and Rick Perry, you could see dropping down to 16 percent in this poll.

Now, Kyra, one thing about this poll that was done before the presidential debate the other night and Cain's advantage there, that four-point advantage, that is within the sampling error. So basically kind of all tied up at the top.

Another poll came out last night as well. Check this out. This is by Reuters and Ipsos, and this also indicates pretty much a tie at the top. You can see Romney at 23 percent, Cain at 19 percent. Again, it's within the sampling error.

But yes, Herman Cain has been catching fire lately in the polls national and state, Kyra. And one reason is 999. It's that tax plan he's been talking about nonstop. He was basically the star or at least he had the most attention at the presidential debate the other night.

We've got another debate, our own, coming up next week -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, and also, Paul, it's been a rough stretch for the president. So, what are we hearing from his reelection campaign at this point?

STEINHAUSER: They've got some numbers they're bragging about this morning, no doubt about that. And that is their third quarter campaign cash numbers. And if you look at this, the president and the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, combined raised about $70 million in the July through August -- September period and that is a little bit more than they had predicted.

The president's campaign going to be taking about $43 million of that, Kyra. Why does campaign cash matter? Because well, those big bucks, they can pay for campaign commercials get-out-the-vote efforts, that kind of stuff down the road next year when the president is really fully running for reelection.

And also when it comes to campaign cash, if you take probably all the Republican candidates, add their money together, it looks like the president still has more -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Paul, thanks. And tune in tonight for a primetime interview with Herman Cain. He's going to appear on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT." That's at 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

And don't forget next Tuesday night, Paul mentioned it, live on CNN, the Republican candidates for president gather in Las Vegas to debate the issues and try and sway those voters. The "Western Republican Presidential Debate" on CNN Tuesday night 8:00 Eastern.

While Herman Cain pitches his tax plan, billionaire Warren Buffett increases his drumbeat for tax reform.

Poppy Harlow with CNNMoney.com got a chance to speak to Buffett about his calls to reform the nation's tax code.

Hey, Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Hey, good morning, Kyra. You know it's interesting, we're hearing this increased drumbeat, as you said, from Warren Buffett. Of course the White House has named their tax proposal the Buffett rule after the billionaire investor but what's interesting is the backstory.

We obtained e-mails -- an e-mail yesterday which was the correspondence between a Republican congressman, Congressman Tim Huelskamp of Kansas, and Warrant Buffett. Huelskamp earlier this month -- sent a letter to Buffett and asked him to release his tax returns -- we've heard this before. And he said, if you, Mr. Buffett, do that, I will release my tax returns.

Well, Warren Buffett wrote back and said, "I would be delighted to release my tax returns if you can also get some of the other wealthiest Americans to do the same."

So, let's take a listen to what Warren told me about why he is saying that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WARREN BUFFETT, CEO, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY: I'm delighted. I would be delighted to get my return along with the others of the ultrarich and then we can just see exactly why the tax system produces these huge tax inequities that result in me and the other people in the ultrarich paying a much lower tax rate than the people in my office or probably you pay, Poppy, or for that matter, or that the congressman pays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Also some news he made also yesterday to us, Kyra, is what he made. You can see it right there on the monitor next to me. $63 million, that is what Warren Buffett brought in in 2010 alone. He said he paid about $6.9 million and that in taxes that's roughly 17.4 percent.

So his argument here is that -- that he says he is paying less than those in his office and less than a lot of middle class Americans in terms of percentage on taxes.

Now what do the congressman have to say in response. I spoke to him in depth on the phone yesterday. He also issued this statement. Let's put up for you. He said, quote, "Mr. Buffett still refuses to release his tax returns. What he does disclose may be accurate, but it is incomplete and it fails to explain how he shelters millions of dollars in income. It is unprecedented that we would write an entire law based on one man's anecdotes without actual proof."

Kyra, so you can see more of his statement, what he had to say, we've got full right on CNNMoney, our full interview with Buffett, and I know you and I are going to dig into this later in the next hour.

PHILLIPS: We sure are. Poppy, you're going to join me just more than an hour from now.

Tim Huelskamp, the Republican congressman who requested that Buffett release his tax returns is going to join me live, 10:15 Eastern Time. Poppy will be a part of that interview, as well.

Now the cost of bad decision in a lousy economy. Tuesday night a U.S. city declared bankruptcy. Local lawmakers in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, say that the city is buried under almost $500 million of debt.

Alison Kosik is in Harrisburg with more.

So, Alison, what exactly happened that plunged the city into so much debt?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you know, anyone who's in deep financial trouble, this doesn't happen just overnight, and the same thing goes for Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. These financial problems, they've been brewing for a long time. But you know what, things really reached a boiling point earlier this week. This as the city sits on $310 million of debt that it can't pay. So what was this boiling point? The Harrisburg City Council actually filed for bankruptcy. And guess what the financial tipping point was for this city? The trash incinerator.

Many people saying that it wound up burning more cash than trash. That it really was more of a money pit. These financial problems for the incinerator really began to pile on when it was renovated because the hope was that revenue would wind up making up for the financing, the cost of renovating it.

That, obviously, not panning out. So obviously not hurting the budget situation in Harrisburg. Now a city councilman that we talked to earlier today said the political dysfunction is heating up now that the mayor of Harrisburg is challenging this bankruptcy filing.

Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD KOPLINSKI, HARRISBURG CITY COUNCIL: I'm up for election in four weeks. This is the popular or practical thing to do. Sticking my neck out there. If it was popular or practical, I would have kept my mouth shut so I can make sure I win my election. Nobody sticking up for the people of Harrisburg, not the bond holders, not the lobbyists, not these legislatures, and I would venture to say this administration because we've got to make our city better than it was and better than it is right now in five years and down the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSIK: And Harrisburg's mayor Linda Thompson does say it's illegal for the city council to file for bankruptcy. Ultimately it's going to be up to a judge which side is right. But you know what, at this point, Harrisburg is sitting here with a balance sheet that is yet to be contended with and it continues obviously to be exacerbated. Its financial problems are exacerbated by what all cities are finding to be a huge issue. The slow economy, high unemployment, which means fewer tax receipts coming in -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Alison Kosik, thank you so much.

Well, is your BlackBerry working yet? If you're chained to it for work or pleasure, this could be another very long day.

Dan Simon joining us from San Francisco.

So, Dan, where do things stand right now?

DAN SIMON, CNN SILICON VALLEY CORRESPONDENT: Well, according to RIM, the maker of BlackBerry, you know, they're based in Canada. They claimed that they had this situation pretty much under control. But we will see.

You know this started as a core switch problem in Europe and they feel like they finally got a handle on this infrastructure, but like a bad global virus, you can see how this thing spread from country to country before finally hitting the United States yesterday.

I want you to listen to the CEO and founder of RIM who put this statement on YouTube just a little while ago. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE LAZARIDIS, RESEARCH IN MOTION CO-CEO: Since launching BlackBerry in 1999, it's been my goal to provide reliable, real-time communications around the world. We did not deliver on that goal this week. Not even close. I apologize for the service outages this week. We've let many of you down. But let me assure you that we're working around the clock to fix this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Well, there are really two problems here. There's the outage problem and then there's the problem to the RIM brand. And I would suggest that the public relations issue is worse than the outage. This could not come as a worse time for BlackBerry. They've seen their market share decline each quarter. Google has now overtaken RIM, Apple has also beaten them. RIM now firmly in third place.

This is a category that dominated just a few years ago and the fact that they're having these issues now as they've seen their market share decline really could not come at a worse time -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Dan Simon, thanks.

And we're talking about 70 million BlackBerry users around the world, not knowing what to do. And, you know, Jon Mann, some people were saying, you know what, it was a nice break. It gave me an excuse to say, OK, I can't get back to you right now. Sorry, I didn't get the e-mail.

JON MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I know, that little box of plastic and chips runs our lives.

PHILLIPS: It does.

MANN: We had a break from it for a while. It's kind of nice.

Well, people around the world were noticing what was going on. I man 70 million people is a lot of people.

Have a look at what newspaper around the world were saying. We'll start in the United Arab Emirates where the newspaper called "The National." And this was an opinion piece, but they're usually calling this a death sentence the BlackBerry. And they quoted telecoms analyst who says, "The three-day failure of BlackBerry service could become a death sentence for the maker of the device." They're picking up on what Dan was saying.

"But," they note, "despite the service problems this week, BlackBerry ranks as one of the most popular smartphone brands in the region." Despite the iPhone, despite the Android, everyone seems to have one.

Well, the "Toronto Star" headlined its story, "Dear BlackBerry, is it over? The service disruptions are the worse since an outage swept North America in 2009, but the landscape has changed since then leaving BlackBerry maker Research In Motion more vulnerable to criticism on social media sites like Facebook and Twitter."

Once again things All right just different now.

And finally, "The Citizen" in South Africa advises, "Have a raspberry," which is to say the heck with it.

Strange to tell, there was life before the cell phone even before the landline phone. People survived. It's not the end of the world. In fact for many, there should be a sense of relief from the tyranny of e-mails and whatnot, which is your point, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

MANN: And you know what, get a life. It's just a BlackBerry after all.

PHILLIPS: Hey, and you know, it just forced people to communicate either face-to-face or via, as we used to say, landline.

MANN: What a concept. Talk to people.

PHILLIPS: Exactly. Jon, thanks.

All right. Coming up, young Hollywood is resting a little easier today. The guy suspected of hacking into their e-mail accounts and stealing sexy pictures is busted by the feds.

And dumping bathrooms to make room for more seats. That's what one airline wants to do. Cost cutting move that is certainly upsetting a lot of people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: A quick look at news from "Cross Country" now.

Police in Seal Beach, California, say they know who went into a hair salon and killed eight people now. They're trying to figure out why, though. Another victim was critically hurt. Investigator say the suspect is cooperating.

Exercising your First Amendment rights can be messy. Tomorrow the city of New York will clean the private park where the Occupy Wall Street protesters have been basically living for the last four weeks. The park's owners were worried about unsanitary conditions and wear and tear.

And Airtran Airways will always do what Southwest does when it comes to large passengers. Airtran will make, quote, "passengers of size" by the seat next to them if they're flying coach. That policy takes effect in March. Southwest bought Airtran last year. Well, Scarlett Johansson, topless, Mila Kunis, taking a bath, Christina Aguilera clothed, but barely. These are just a few of the celebrities exposed online by a hacker. The feds have been working the case now for a year, they just made an arrest in Operation: Hackerazzi, and it's this man. 35-year-old Christopher Cheney, charged with a couple dozen crimes from identity theft to wiretapping to hacking into e-mail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRE BIROTTE, JR., U.S. ATTORNEY: The indictment alleges that Mr. Cheney set the victims' accounts to automatically forward all of their e-mails to his own e-mail. Using these methods, Cheney stole not only private and personal photographs of the victims, he also took financial information, movie scripts and conversations that the victims believed to be private.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: That's U.S. Attorney Andre Birotte joins me now live from Los Angeles.

So, Andre, how did he access the passwords?

BIROTTE: Well, good morning, Kyra. We believe he was able to access the passwords, quite frankly, in somewhat of a guessing game, if you will. Many of the information that he was able access, he, we believe, surmised some passwords and were successful, and that allowed him access into some of these e-mail accounts.

PHILLIPS: How did he do that, though? How did he guess the passwords?

BIROTTE: Well, unfortunately, in this day in age, information is a commodity and people troll the Internet to try to get information about individuals, in particular celebrities, and at least we believe that he was able to guess some of the passwords. Unfortunately, many people know people like to use names or passwords that are easy for them. Whether it's their dog's name, their best friend's name, their street address or town that they grew up in, and people take random guesses to see if that is, in fact, the password.

And he was successful in accomplishing that.

PHILLIPS: And how did he add the new victims. We were talking about more than 50 celebs and others in the entertainment industry, right?

BIROTTE: Yes, unfortunately, once he was able to get access to a particular celebrity by accessing their e-mails and their e-mails to other friends, he was able to then hack into friends and other celebrities' accounts.

PHILLIPS: Now, he's apologized for this. He's admitted that he's done it. He says he's sorry.

Do you think he did it -- I mean, what do you think his motive was? He says he just became addicted to just learning all these things about stars and seeing pictures. Do you believe that?

BIROTTE: Well, it's interesting because we have no information to suggest that he received any financial gain from this. Nevertheless, quite frankly, the motive in this matter doesn't really matter for purposes of the indictment and prosecution.

PHILLIPS: Andre, forgive me. I got to breakaway. We will stay on the story, follow up.

I want to get straight to the president of the United States. Live pictures now of the first lady, Michelle Obama, with the president there. You can see the White House pretty much rolling out the red carpet for South Korea's president, Lee Myung-bak. He's arriving for an official state visit.

Let's go ahead and listen in.

(BAND PLAYING)

PHILLIPS: All right, you're watching live pictures now as the president and first lady greet their South Korean counterparts right there on the south lawn of the White House. This visit comes just a day after Congress approved a free trade agreement between the two countries. They are expected to hold a joint news conference. We will take it live when it happens.

All right. If you're flying Ryanair, you better go before you fly. The no frill airline wants to get rid of some bathrooms to make room for more seats. We're talking about it.

And next, Paula Deen tops "Maxim" magazine's list of the hottest female chefs. But they didn't use her picture for the story. Find out what "Maxim" actually replaced it with.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Your "Showbiz Headlines" today. A video of two little girls singing a song by rapper Nicki Minaj went viral and led to an appearance on Ellen DeGeneres Show. Minaj surprised the two little girls by showing up.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

PHILLIPS: And it gets better because then the trio sang together.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

PHILLIPS: Minaj said that 8-year-old Sofia Grace is a star in the making.

Well, Lifetime is remaking the 1989 movie "Steel Magnolias" with all-black cast. And like the original, it will be shot in Louisiana. No word yet on who will be in that.

And, finally, "Maxim" magazine's list of hottest female TV chefs. The winner: Food Network's Paula Deen. But instead of using her picture in the magazine, "Maxim" put in a stick of butter saying, and I quote, "Just imagining the slippery, sloppy butter-sex we've have with Paula makes us hungry for a bacon-wrapped, beer batter-fried stick of butter weirdly."

Exactly my thought.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: OK. Well, we're going to go from one real talk story to another.

Jon Mann, sorry for the segue.

MANN: Wow.

PHILLIPS: Well, I think we can say the same thing about your story, Ryanair, no bathrooms on the airline flight?

MANN: If you hate to fly, the cheapest, low-cost carrier that Ireland has ever produced basically operates around Western Europe, has a brilliant idea to save money -- it's going to cut the number of toilets on its planes from three toilets to one. So, imagine -- 200 people on a plane an hour, two hours, three hours. Their longest flight is four hours and 25 minutes.

PHILLIPS: OK. That's ridiculous.

MANN: It is ridiculous, but here's the thinking anyway to their credit, for what it's worth.

PHILLIPS: OK.

MANN: They took the bathroom, add six more seats. Add six more seats and bring the cost down for everybody. Do the math. Some people are saying, well, if you had a $63 ticket, that would make it $60. So, $3 to spend the whole flight with your knees pressed together.

Ryanair is saying it's a good way to save money. They're only going to do it on the short haul flights to begin with. And here's the thing that really gets me, the CEO of Ryanair, Michael O'Leary says, quote, "We very rarely use all three toilets onboard our aircraft anyway." Well, maybe they don't use all three, but every flight I have been on, there are always people standing in line.

PHILLIPS: They're lining up.

MANN: Yes. So, this is going to be a very particular form of punishment.

The thing is Ryanair is making a lot of money and the innovations they introduced like paying per bag or paying to get a boarding ticket printed show up here. So, be warned. Three toilets down to one toilet and, by the way, it's entirely legal. There's nothing anyone can do to prevent it. If Boeing will approve the six extra seats, Ryanair is going to be the last place you want to go after you visit the airport.

PHILLIPS: Well, they won't be paying for drinks. That's for sure.

MANN: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: OK, Jon. We'll see if it happens.

Well, Karina Huber is in the New York Stock Exchange with a quick check at the markets -- Karina.

KARINA HUBER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, we are expecting a weaker open this morning. Investors (INAUDIBLE) away from Europe and not focusing on the weekly job claims because they were essentially flat. They're focusing on corporate earnings, more specifically the banks. JPM, JPMorgan Chase was the first to come out with their numbers. They had a decent quarter with both profit and sales, beating estimates.

But, of course, Kyra, that should be taken with a grain of salt, because the company lowered its expectations in the recent months. And, in fact, their share s are down 2 percent pre-market. That could be because the company issued a cautious outlook about what's ahead.

Of course, Kyra, overall, there's a lot of concern about the banking sector. And, of course, banks have taken a hit in August and September for a variety of reason. So, that will be a sector to watch throughout the day -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That's impacting us all. Karina, thanks.

One in six African-Americans is out of work. But one billionaire says he has a plan to turn the tide and he's asking America's biggest companies to pitch in. Coming up, we're talking live to BET founder Robert Johnson.

And Herman Cain is the new Republican frontrunner, according to a new poll. The big question: can he keep up the momentum? Will Cain and Roland Martin weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Checking top stories now:

Free trade deal with South Korea, Colombia and Panama are heading to President Obama's desk. Congress passed the deals last night. Supporters say they will create jobs in the U.S.

People along Mexico's Pacific Coast are dealing with destroyed homes and flooded out roads, thanks to hurricane Jova. The flood waters and mud chased some people to their rooftops.

And more people have died after eating tainted cantaloupe. The CDC says the death toll is now 23. Remember cantaloupes were found to contain the deadly listeria bacteria.

Herman Cain is now the man to beat in the Republican presidential race. According to one new poll, a new "Wall Street Journal"/NBC poll puts him on top with 27 percent of the vote. Mitt Romney comes in second, followed by Rick Perry and Ron Paul. But a "Reuters"/Ipsus poll from the same time frame scrambles those four and Romney lands on top.

CNN political analyst Roland Martin and CNN contributor Will Cain joining me live now.

Gentlemen, another day, another frontrunner -- is this a sign of Cain's strength or Romney's weakness? Roland?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, neither. This is an irrelevant poll.

Look, we sit here and those of us who cover politics, we go back and forth. A new poll. There are about 5,000 polls out here -- PPP, NBC, CBS, you name it. Everybody has a poll --

PHILLIPS: You don't think -- you don't think Cain is resonating at all?

MARTIN: Look, he's resonating because he is a simple message. He's speaking directly to Tea Party people. When you break down this poll, they say we like his plain talk. He's not a politician.

At the end of the day, are these polls meaningless until you actually have both. It's also a state-by-state race. A national poll serves no purpose right now.

PHILLIPS: Will, is it meaningless?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No. I mean -- Roland makes some good points that we can't just look at these polls and go, well, I guess Herman Cain is going to win the nomination. That being said, what these polls reflect is a real appetite for what Herman Cain is actually delivering.

This guy has a biography that is unmatchable on this stage. This guy's daddy wasn't a chemical titan. This guy's daddy wasn't governor. He's the son of a chauffeur.

He's been CEO of Godfather's Pizza. He's a mathematician, ballistics at the Navy. This guy is impressive.

And on top of that, he's got a bold plan -- 9-9-9 -- that I have substantive disagreements with. But whatever you disagree with about it, he's not tinkering around the edges. He is saying we have a real problem, which everyone agrees with the tax code.

MARTIN: Right.

CAIN: Roland agrees with that, I agree with that -- at least this guy has a bold plan. I'll tell you what? That poll reflects he is resonating and he should be.

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Roland.

MARTIN: But here's out there -- again, when you start looking at this particular poll, OK, what he speaks to is people really paying attention, the crazy, political folks who follow this stuff. I mean, every up and down. When you begin to go into November and December, and when you begin to have that first election, first of all, we have no idea these days if New Hampshire might be voting by Thanksgiving. So, all of a sudden, the field widens.

Then people began to say, first, are you electable? Can you win in the general? All those things come up.

Also, right now in the GOP field, you can appeal to a sliver of the populous and then you can be in the top tier. So, when you look at 15 percent, 18 percent, 20 percent, that's really what it is all about.

This is more about a fractured GOP field as opposed to one person, Cain or Romney somehow resonating across the field.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, Will -- then, Will, when are Republicans going to settle on a candidate. We have seen the frontrunner fluctuate.

MARTIN: When the vote?

CAIN: Right.

PHILLIPS: Will? Yes, yes, Roland --

CAIN: Look, you can't disagree with a lot of what Roland is saying. We will decide on a candidate when the voting period comes.

But here's what Roland is doing -- he is being too dismissive of somebody who is resonating.

MARTIN: No, I'm not.

CAIN: This is too much inside the Beltway. It's too inside the Beltway talking about which polls matter and which -- I'm telling you, Roland is from Texas and I'm from Texas and I talk to people and Herman Cain's name comes up over and over.

The point is, this guy is resonating and I want to say this, Roland's right. OK? This doesn't matter until January when the primaries roll around. But I'm going to say, do not dismiss Herman Cain. I think come January, it will be a decision between Herman Cain and Romney.

PHILLIPS: Last thought, Roland.

MARTIN: I cannot be dismissive here because guess what? At this point, then-Senator Barack Obama down 20 points to Senator Hillary Clinton.

CAIN: Fair enough.

MARTIN: It all matters when people actually vote. You can resonate in a poll, but when they go into the voting booth, that's the real issue. So, I pay no attention to polls before people actually vote. That's where elections matter.

PHILLIPS: We're going to leave it there, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

CAIN: I just want to say, all I'm saying, is distinguish Herman Cain from Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry. I don't think you're seeing the same boom and bust. That's not what's happening here.

PHILLIPS: We're going to keep tracking it. Guys, thanks. See? Everyone is talking about it. No matter what you think, everybody is talking about it, including us.

All right. Don't forget, next Tuesday night, live on CNN, the Republican candidates for president gather in Las Vegas to debate the issues and sway the voters. The Western Republican Presidential Debate, CNN, Tuesday night, at 8:00 Eastern.

All right. We talked about the black unemployment crisis but one billionaire says he's got a solution and it starts with a challenge for America's biggest companies. Just ahead, I'm going to talk live with BET founder Bob Johnson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: One in six African-Americans is out of work, according to the Labor Department. That's a 16 percent unemployment rate, 7 percent higher than the national average. And the black workers who do have full-time jobs earn about 80 percent of what white workers make. But America's first black billionaire says he's got a plan to fix that.

BET founder Bob Johnson is joining me live from Washington, D.C.

Bob, great to see you. You are --

ROBERT JOHNSON, BET FOUNDER: Kyra, great to see you, too.

PHILLIPS: Well, you're asking America's biggest companies now to interview, at least two black candidates for every open senior position. Why?

JOHNSON: Well, Kyra, I got this idea from the NFL's Rooney Rule. And the Rooney Rule simply says that owners of NFL teams must interview at least one African-American when there is a vacancy in the coaching position or the G.M. position. And as a result of that rule, the number of coaches in the NFL jumped from about three to eight, and the number of G.M.s up to five, and two of those coaches in the NFL went on to take their teams to the Super Bowl, which says African- Americans, if given a chance.

And I sort of adopt the RLJ Rule that says companies who are seeking to hire V.P.s and above or to issue contracts to businesses would voluntarily -- and I stress voluntarily -- agree to interview at least two African-American qualified candidates before they fill that position or qualified African-American small or minority business before they hire or sign a new contract. And, to me, that will create opportunity and more than likely, it will create success.

PHILLIPS: But, Bob, and the NFL rule did get criticized. You know, people came forward and they're going to probably criticize this, as well -- saying, look, this is discrimination. Why not just interview the most qualified candidates no matter what their ethnicity.

What do you say to the critics?

JOHNSON: Well, I would say this. The RLJ Rule concept, like the Rooney Rule, is not discrimination. There's no mandate to hire anybody. It simply --

PHILLIPS: Give them a chance.

JOHNSON: It's what I call best practice enhance commitment to diversity and inclusion. You simply say to a H.R. person or a contracting person, before you fill that V.P. position and above, at least interview two qualified candidates. If they're not qualified for that job, maybe there's another job.

It's simply best practices and particularly at a time when African-American unemployment is approaching 18 percent and many of those 18 percent is Harvard graduates, Wharton graduates, Stanford graduates who would do well in corporations but they simply don't have the opportunity.

And I know they're out there because I employ a lot of them in my various businesses.

PHILLIPS: All right, let's stick with jobs and economy now. You know, you've come out really tough on President Obama. You slammed him and attacked his economic policies. You don't mince words.

If you could sit down with him today, Bob, what would you ask him to do?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I haven't slammed him. I basically said --

PHILLIPS: Tough talk, is that fair? Tough talk?

JOHNSON: Well, I would say that it's a recognition that you can't convince people to be supportive of your objectives by, in some ways, accusing them of not being involved and trying to solve the problem. Every entrepreneur I know, every business person I know wakes up every day trying to create value, trying to create opportunity and when they do that, they'll put people to work. What business people are looking for --

PHILLIPS: So, what would you tell the president to do, Bob? If had the chance, just you - the two of you, one-on-one?

JOHNSON: Well, first thing I'd tell the president to do is get his jobs council or ask his jobs council to endorse the RLJ Rule that will help more African-Americans get opportunities both in business and employment.

The second thing I would do is to ask him to recalibrate his argument that there's something negative about being able to fly a private jet or being able to generate wealth, and talk to us in terms of how did -- how did we create business? How did I go from being from a family of 10 to become successful in creating Black Entertainment Television and recently successful in taking my hotel company public, and now proposing to encourage companies to hire more African-American?

These are things I believe in. Not a public policy agenda. Not a re-election agenda, but an agenda to try to use my talent and my energy and my entrepreneurial skills to help people to work. Talk to us in that vein, I think then we will respond.

PHILLIPS: In your opinion, is Obama doing enough for the African-American community?

JOHNSON: In my opinion, I think he can do more. And he is certainly doing everything he can for the general population and I think he believes that if you get America in the broad sense back working, it will have an impact on African-Americans.

Unfortunately, historically, that's not the case. And that's the reason American unemployment or white American unemployment is at 9.1. African-American, Kyra, if you really want to know the truth, is probably closer to 20-plus.

And so, there's a disconnect between making and creating jobs for the general population and creating jobs and opportunity for African-American. That argues in my -- from my standpoint that somebody has to go an extra mile, and I think the president and the Congress both sides, I'm not picking on one or the other -- they need to go the extra mile to increase opportunities for African-Americans.

PHILLIPS: Will you vote for President Obama?

JOHNSON: Certainly will do that.

PHILLIPS: You will.

What do you think of Herman Cain?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, it's not so much Herman Cain. I know of him and I know of his background, but the thing that really says to me is the way the Republican Party is embracing Herman Cain. I mean, the conventional wisdom is that the Republican Party is negative to outright hostile to African-Americans.

I think it's great because my basic philosophy is, Kyra, that it's better for African-Americans to have both parties seeking our support. You know, too often sometimes I feel the Democratic Party takes us for granted and the Republican Party ignores us.

So if Herman can generate more support for African-American issues in the Republican Party and we got President Obama who's head of the Democratic Party, it could really mean that African-Americans are now being looked at as voters that people should court. And I welcome the Republican Party enthusiasm for Herman Cain as a potential Republican nominee.

PHILLIPS: BET founder, Robert Johnson. Bob, great talking to you this morning. Thanks so much.

JOHNSON: We'll see you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

An expert witness in the trial of Conrad Murray paints a damaging picture of the doctor's treatment of Michael Jackson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you monitor a patient, you never leave their side, especially after giving Propofol. It's -- it's like leaving a baby that's sleeping on your kitchen countertop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: That story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, as the prosecution nears an end to its case against Conrad Murray they called an expert witness who could prove damaging to the doctor. At issue is evidence that Murray left an ailing Michael Jackson alone for at least two minutes.

Ted Rowlands takes a harder look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In a damaging day of testimony against Dr. Conrad Murray, an expert for the California Medical Board concluded that Murray's actions directly caused the death of Michael Jackson.

Dr. Alan Steinberg, a cardiologist hired by the prosecution called Murray's behavior, quote, "bizarre and listed multiple examples of his extreme deviations from standard medical care". UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your opinion is the use of Propofol as part of a doctor's medical practice to treat insomnia gross negligence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's indicated for procedures in patient comfort not for sleep.

ROWLANDS: According to Steinberg, not only did Murray administer a dangerous drug to Jackson, he did it without the proper equipment.

STEINBERG: First, you need a pulse oximeter with an alarm. Dr. Murray's machine did not have an alarm. The next thing you need is an EKG monitor. He did not have an EKG monitor. The other thing is you need is a bag mask or an ambu-bag and you need to know how to use it. Dr. Murray had a ambu bag, but he did not use it.

ROWLANDS: Another deviation according to Steinberg, Murray's failure to call for help immediately.

STEINBERG: It's basic knowledge in America, you don't have to be a health care professional, that when someone is down, you need to call 911 for help. Dr. Murray should have known that, so instead of that huge 20-minute delay -- 20-something-minute delay, he could have gotten help that he needed within four minutes.

ROWLANDS: Murray had told police he was busy trying to resuscitate Jackson, which is why he didn't call 911 right away, but Steinberg said Murray didn't even follow proper procedures in trying to revive the singer.

STEINBERG: His CPR was poor quality. He should have put Mr. Jackson on the floor and done CPR on the floor with two hands.

ROWLANDS: Previously, the jury heard a two-hour recording of a police interview with Murray. On the tape Murray described monitoring Jackson after giving him Propofol until he felt comfortable enough to leave the room. Murray said he was only gone for two minutes.

STEINBERG: When you monitor a patient, you never leave their side especially after giving Propofol. It's like leaving a baby that's sleeping on your kitchen countertop.

ROWLANDS: The defense now says they'll drop their theory that Jackson had swallowed extra Propofol without Murray's knowledge. Instead they will argue that Jackson administered the fatal dose himself through a syringe.

(on camera): A sleep expert also testified and said that Murray's use of Propofol to treat insomnia was quote, "unusual and dangerous". The prosecution is wrapping up their case they're expected to get to their final witness at some point tomorrow.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And you can see the live testimony of the Conrad Murray court proceedings on our sister network, HLN.

So why did the marathon runner look so well rested at the finish line? You would, too, if you took the bus for the last leg of the race. Sports is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, a look at stories making news later today.

At 11:30 Eastern, the Conrad Murray manslaughter trial resumes. Prosecutors may call their last witness today.

12:20 Eastern, President Obama will hold a joint news conference with South Korea's President in the White House Rose Garden.

And this afternoon at 4:15 Eastern Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will meet with the American hikers freed from Iran.

We're following a lot of developments in the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. Let's check in first with our senior political editor, Mark Preston. Hey, Mark.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hey Kyra, yes, you know, once considered a fourth rate candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, Herman Cain is now surging in the polls. I'll have more about that at the top of the hour.

KOSIK: And I'm Alison Kosik reporting live from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And I'm going to tell you about a city that's filed for bankruptcy not because of the recession or a slowing economy, but because of a trash incinerator. The story is coming up.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dan Simon in San Francisco. Do you have a Blackberry and is it working? Is there going to be some lasting damage to the brand? We'll have those stories coming up at the top of the hour.

PHILLIPS: All right, guys, thanks so much.

Also ahead, schools allowing classroom discussions about homosexuality. Some say that leads to understanding and less bullying. We'll go inside the classroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right.

We're still -- it's like a repeat from yesterday. Baseball playoffs, Jeff Fischel.

JEFF FISCHEL, ANCHOR, HLN SPORTS: Hey, they go on but they are exciting.

We've got some pretty baseball last night, the Rangers needed some bonus time to take down the Tigers in Game 4. Just like in game 2, it went to 11 innings, and just like game 2, Nelson Cruz is the big hero. He had a walk-off grand slam the other night; last night, boom, a three-run shot. The Rangers win 7-3. They lead the Tigers 3 games to 1.

Texas now one win away from going back to the World Series for the second straight year.

International League, the Cardinals using the power of the rally squirrel against the Brewers. Oh, yes, and also using the power of David Freese and Albert Pujols. They both had big hits and Jason Motte locked things down with a one-run lead in the 9th. Cards win 4- 3. They lead the series two games to one. Game 4 tonight.

You know, this has been tried before, Kyra, and it didn't work. A man running a marathon in Britain hopped on a bus at mile 20, got off near at the finish line and then raced across the finish to take third place. Right? No, nice try. People saw him get on and off the bus and they saw him burst through some bushes back on to the course. So, no, you don't get third place. Nice try though.

You may remember back in 1980, Rosie Ruiz won the Boston Marathon by taking a shortcut. It took like a week to sort it all out. Eventually she was stripped of her title as well.

PHILLIPS: How do they think they're not going to get caught?

FISCHEL: Yes. Yes.

PHILLIPS: Especially when they're not huffing and puffing over the finish line.

FISCHEL: At some point when you were training for 26 miles, you realize you couldn't do it, and you're like I think, they have a shortcut maybe to make it happen.

PHILLIPS: Did you see the cops? They just kind of looked like, "Really?".

FISCHEL: Yes. The guy in fourth said, I could have sworn I was finishing third. You know, he was right in the end.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Jeff.

FISCHEL: Ok.