Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Herman Cain on a Hot Streak; Occupy Wall Street Arrests on the Rise; President Obama Hits the Road; Long-Term Care Insurance Axed; IndyCar Driver Death; Germany Reopens Nazi Cases; An Act of Evil; Perry and Romney Tops in Cash; Prisoner Swap Divides Israelis; U.K. Taxidermist Lives Off Roadkill for 30 Years; Cain and the Race Factor

Aired October 17, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR: High stakes, long odds, huge money. Every word, every decision a crap shoot. Vegas is the place but the game, at least for the next 13 months, is politics. We're counting down to the latest showdown among the leading Republican candidates for president. That's at 8:00 p.m. tomorrow on the Las Vegas strip. A debate co-sponsored by CNN and the Western Republican Leadership Conference. And one thing we already know -- one candidate is on a roll, his name is Herman Cain. The brand new CNN/ORC poll shows Cain in a dead heat with Mitt Romney at the top of the GOP field and Cain's gain is Rick Perry's loss. The Texas governor now a distant third.

If you don't believe fortunes change in a heartbeat, take a look at this. Just a month ago, Perry was riding high and Cain polled a mere nine percent. Want to bring in my comrade in politics, Paul Steinhauser, at the Venetian Hotel and casino. Hey, Paul, can Herman Cain take these numbers to the bank or should we expect a -- you know, a bounce-back?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I wouldn't take them to the bank yet, because, Joe, this race has changed so much. Listen, back in the summer, we saw Michele Bachmann jump up in the polls and then go down. We saw the same thing with Rick Perry. Will it happen to Herman Cain? Maybe. Take a look at this other polling from our brand-new CNN polls, you can see right here, two-thirds of Republicans say, you know what? They're not 100 percent married yet to their candidate. They may change their mind. Only about a one in three Republicans say I'm definitely sticking with the candidate who I'm backing right now -- Joe.

JOHNS: You know, one of the things about Cain -- and everybody's talking about him right now. He's made some comments on immigration, he's spoken about an electrified fence that potentially could kill people on the border. And now he's meeting with Sheriff Arpaio who is a controversial figure. A number of Republicans have met with the sheriff. The sheriff reportedly is under federal investigation. Is there a potential perhaps for some of this to backfire or do we know?

STEINHAUSER: You know what, Joe? He had he a tough weekend, Herman Cain, for -- with those controversial comments. I mean, you talk about the ones on the fence. He made them in Tennessee on Saturday. Let's take a quick listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I'm in charge of the fence we're going to have a fence 20 feet high. Going to have barbed wire on the top. It's going to be electrocuted -- electrified, and there is going to be a sign on the other side that said, it will kill you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEINHAUSER: That was Saturday on the campaign trail. Sunday on Sunday talk shows Herman Cain said, I was joking, I was joking. But listen, the controversy's here. We're going to hear more about it today most likely when he meets with Arpaio in neighboring Arizona. And Joe, tomorrow night right behind me at our debate -- our CNN Western Republican debate right here at the Venetian, you can expect that illegal immigration, border security will be big issues. Plus(ph), Herman Cain's has rised -- jumped in the polls, that's brought more scrutiny on what he says and what he's proposing -- Joe.

JOHNS: Well you know, he says he was joking about this, but this isn't the first time he said something and then had to walk it back. And at the end of the day, do we really know what his position is at all?

STEINHAUSER: Exactly. He's used that line, that hey, I'm just joking, before. You know what? Herman Cain has to get used to being in the spotlight now. Because of his standing in the polls, he's going to get more scrutiny from the media and from the voters so he needs to be used to this now. And that's why a lot of other candidates are start to dissect his 999 tax plan and starting to criticize it -- Joe.

JOHNS: For sure. Thanks so much, Paul Steinhauser. And we are looking forward to that CNN debate.

More protesters hitting the streets mean more clashes with police and mass arrests. The Occupy Wall Street movement just keeps growing. In Chicago 175 protesters wound up under arrest when they refused to leave Grant Park. About 2,000 gathered to show solidarity with those in New York who started the down with corporate abuse campaign, and it's gone global since it began a month ago. Hong Kong to Tel Aviv, Madrid to Buenos Aires, peaceful for the most part, but in Rome, the demonstration turned violent. Protesters torched cars, threw rocks and smashed windows. Police fought back firing tear gas, several officers were hurt.

President Obama is in North Carolina right now on a mission to pressure Congress to pass his jobs bill, in his words, piece by piece, after the full package failed in the Senate. The first goal is saving jobs for teachers, firefighters and police officers. He's in the Asheville area to kick off a three-day bus tour of North Carolina and Virginia. Both are key battleground states but the White House says this is an official trip, not related to his re-election campaign.

The Obama administration has dropped the idea of long-term health insurance. It was part of that massive health care law passed in 2010. The program was similar to long-term care plans available in the private sector, and supporters tried for 19 months to find a way to make it work financially. Premiums were supposed to pay for it, but experts realized not enough young people would sign up to make it sustainable.

IndyCar's racing at record speeds, spinning out of control, end up in a massive pile-up and the death of driver Dan Wheldon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of those elements coming together I think -- just was like the perfect storm and it was unfortunate, it was tragic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: But was this race a recipe for disaster before it began?

But first, on a much lighter note, if you're thinking it is time to start an exercise regimen, listen up. Whatever excuse you come up with not to, save it. Check this guy out. One hundred years old and he just completed the Toronto Marathon. Fauja Singh, for your eight hours and 25 minutes going the 26.2 mile distance, you are today's "Rock Star."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: IndyCar star, Dan Wheldon, is being remembered today as the consummate professional, a great champion, and a wonderful ambassador for the sport. He died yesterday in a horrific crash at the Las Vegas Indy 300. This is dashcam video from another car, one of 15 involved in a fiery pile-up in which three other drivers were hurt. Wheldon had won the sport's signature event, the Indy 500, two times, most recently this past May. He was just 33 years old with a wife and two young sons. I want to talk more about the man, the crash and IndyCar racing versus NASCAR with Ed Hinton, he's a senior writer for ESPN.com, joins us today via Skype from Jasper, Georgia. Ed, in Vegas yesterday, there was something like 34 cars on the track, a full mile shorter than the Indianapolis speedway. Is 34 cars in this situation too many?

ED HINTON, SENIOR WRITER, ESPN.COM (via Skype): Certainly in retrospect it appears so. I would say just on paper, yes, that's too many for a mile and half high-bank track. That was bad circumstances. It's a function, frankly, of IndyCar's struggle to make the splash and to try to get some sort of notice and attention, Vis-a-vis NASCAR which has absolutely dominated IndyCar racing in north America. It was a function, frankly, of IndyCar's struggle to make the splash and to try to get some sort of notice and attention. Vis-a-vis NASCAR which has absolutely dominated IndyCar racing in north America.

JOHN: Why do you think that is? And also, it's been said that IndyCar is more dangerous than NASCAR. Why is that?

HINTON: Well, they're equally dangerous for different reasons. NASCAR, as (INAUDIBLE) said, that the open cockpit is the key to IndyCar. There is a tradition there of open wheels, that is no fenders, and open cockpit rather than looking at a roof, at a windshield, the driver is looking at the sky. And any time you have that open cockpit you invite what our best biomechanical engineers call injuries with intrusion or invasion. That is you can have a tire and wheel breaking off, coming back into that open cockpit. The driver has no big windshield to protect him. He has no roof to protect him.

Then when the cars fly cockpit-first into that catch fence, then what you're doing is you're inviting foreign objects, part of the cash fence, whatever, into that open cockpit. There is -- as long as the tradition of open cockpit and open-wheel cars, (INAUDIBLE) flying in the air and that can't happen in NASCAR.

JOHNS: So, why is it -- excuse me, I'm sorry. Why is it, though, I asked that question before, that IndyCar seems to be struggling up against NASCAR?

HINTON: Well, they split. It is just at the wrong time. There was a civil war in IndyCar racing in the late '90s. The two divisions split. The Indy 500 lost its mystique. Then all of its satellite races, and so you have two different groups of IndyCar racing and the public just lost faith in them, because when you -- they divided and conquered themselves. There wasn't enough attention being paid to either one. It was self-destruction of IndyCar racing.

They put the public's attention over here on what was called the Indy Racing League which is with a we essentially have now, and over here on car which was the better league and it was a function of a split-up over money and power in IndyCar racing. Now, they were doing this just as NASCAR was on the rise. NASCAR would have overtaken them anyway. Reason be, the NASCAR cars are bigger, they're easier to identify, the numbers are bigger, it's clear which car is which.

JOHNS: Having said that --

HINTON: The IndyCars -- look at -- look at the tape of the crash that killed Wheldon. You can't -- it's hard to tell which car is which. And that's not only true in a wreck, it's true all the time in IndyCar racing. So, as a spectator, NASCAR's just a better show, so they divided themselves politically and financially. They're not as good a show. They just drew themselves over a cliff --

JOHNS: Ed --

HINTON: Yes.

JOHNS: Yes, just one more very quick question for you. Do you think this is going to change racing at all and do you think people just go because it's a sort of blood sport, just give me sort of a quick answer, if you can.

HINTON: No, I think people go to see the avoidance of death. That they're thrilled by the avoidance of death, not by death itself. It'll change racing a little bit in that they always investigate and try to make safety improvements.

JOHNS: All right, Ed Hinton, thank you so much for that via Skype. Appreciate your knowledge on the sport.

HINTON: Thank you.

JOHNS: Decades since millions of innocent Jews were murdered. The last living Nazis are set to be prosecuted. Many are in their 90s, that's right, their 90s. Our "Undercovered" story coming up next.

But first here's a look at stories we're watching on CNN.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAIN: The original goal of the 9-9-9 plan was to give me a show on "Fox News."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: They had a hand in the Holocaust, the death camps, the death squads. All formed and built for one purpose -- the murder of millions of innocent Jews. Well, it's been more than 60 years since the end of World War II. This is not to be forgotten. Prosecutors in Germany are re-opening hundreds of investigations into former Nazis. It's a story we think has been "Under Covered" and deserves attention.

Most of these cases go after former Nazi death camp guards who are now well into their 80s and 90s, whose cases were previously dropped. That is, until this man, John Demjanjuk, was convicted in May by a German court after being extradited from the U.S. Demjanjuk, who is 91 years old, was found guilty on almost 28,000 counts for being an accessory to murder. His conviction has opened the door for prosecutors to charge thousands of other former Nazi guards.

Author of "Operation Last Chance: One Man's Quest to Bring Nazi Criminals to Justice" and self-proclaimed Nazi hunt Efraim Zuroff, from the Simon Wiesenthal Center, joins me now from Jerusalem.

How many re-opened cases are we talking about and how do you go about the process of getting these cases reopened?

EFRAIM ZUROFF, DIRECTOR, SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER'S ISRAEL OFFICE: Well, I think that the scope of the project is basically at least about 4,000 potential cases. But, of course, many of these people who served either in the murder squads, the einsatzgruppen, or in what we call pure death camps, that's death camps which did not have an adjacent labor camp but whose sole purpose was mass murder, is about 4,000 people.

Unfortunately, many of those people already passed away. But even if only 2 percent of them are alive, that's already 80 cases. And if, let's assume, that half can't be put on trial for medical reasons, that still leaves us with at least 40 people who spent a significant amount of time during World War II carrying out mass murder on practically a daily basis.

JOHNS: So what roles do these people -- did these people actually play in the death camps, if we know?

ZUROFF: OK. These are the people who basically carried out the process of mass annihilation. From the minute that trains of Jews arrived from all over Europe, these people were forced out of the train cars and forced into a certain place where they were deloused, where they were told that they were going to be resettled, stripped naked and then pushed into gas chambers where they were, of course, murdered. That's in the death camps.

But in the death squads, these are the people who rounded up the Jews, took them out to a site purposely chosen for the mass murder because it was totally isolated and there would be no bystanders, no one could see what was going on. And then they organized the murder and carried it out.

JOHNS: And why has it taken so long to bring these people to trial?

ZUROFF: Well, you have to understand that until about three years ago, the German prosecutors did not attempt to bring any person to justice who was not an officer and who was not German. And the reason for this was that when west Germany assumed responsibility for its judicial system in 1949, Germany -- the country faced a practically impossible task, which was to bring all those people who were personally responsible or played a role in the mass murder of the Jews and other people classified as enemies of the Reich to justice. So the country would have had to have put maybe -- I don't know -- maybe 4 percent, 5 percent, 6 percent of its population on trial. Obviously an impossible task. So they actually decide to focus on those with command responsibility.

Now the practical implication of that decision was, if you weren't an officer, you basically had nothing to worry about. But now, thank God, that policy has finally been changed and now anyone who served in these units can be brought to justice and stands a very high likelihood of being convicted for at least accessory to murder.

JOHNS: But then there's the problem of trying to come up with direct evidence after all these years. It sounds like a very difficult proposition.

ZUROFF: No, but the point is this, that for the first time German prosecutors do not have to present proof of a specific crime with a specific victim. And this is the uniqueness and significance of the Damjanjuk conviction. Basically what the court in Munich said in May, this past May was, if you served as an armed SS guard at a pure death camp, in this case Sobibor, you're automatically guilty of accessory to murder.

Now, this conviction basically reflects the true reality of the death camps and the einsatzgruppen, the death squads. In other words, they basically said, anyone involved in this, these are processes, these are installations that were created for one purpose, and one purpose only -- the mass murder of Jewish civilians and other people classified as enemies of the Reich. So if you served there, you ipso facto were involved in this horrific, absolutely terrible process and deserve to be punished. JOHNS: Dr. Efraim Zuroff in Jerusalem, thanks so much for that.

Locked in a basement and taken advantage of. Four mentally disabled people taken from state to state. It's a surprising story and today we're learning there may be more victims out there. "Crime & Consequence" coming up.

But first, on this day in 1931, proof that you can run but you can't hide forever. Chicago mobster Al Capone was convicted not for smuggling or bootlegging liquor or his other dirty deeds. No, instead he was taken down by the feds for not paying his taxes. Now this is the "Shame In History."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: In "Crime & Consequence" today we're focusing on the horrific crime uncovered in a Philadelphia basement. Four mentally disabled people locked in a small, dark room for weeks. But they may not be the only victims. Earlier we heard from Philadelphia's police commissioner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMM. CHARLES RAMSEY, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPT.: It's one of the things we were able to recover in a search of one of the offenders', Linda Westin (ph). We've got about 50 different IDs of people, Social Security information, power of attorney information, those kinds of things which we now have to track down each and every one of these people to get their status. We believe that she's been involved in this for a period of time. We don't know how many victims, however, are part of this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: The FBI is joining the investigation today trying to answer some of those questions. Our Susan Candiotti has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police call it an act of evil. In a basement below the basement of this Philadelphia house, a chain shackled one of four mentally and physically challenged adults to a boiler, all of them locked behind a steel door. One woman and three men, aged 29 to 41.

LT. RAY EVERS, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPT.: It looks like a dungeon. These people were stored like surplus meat in the basement.

CANDIOTTI: Held captive in a 15 by 15-foot room, emaciated, covered in bed sores and filthy conditions. The building's owner discovered them Saturday when he heard dogs barking inside. He pried the door open and couldn't believe his eyes.

TURGUT GOZLEVELI, BUILDING OWNER: Yes, one person was (INAUDIBLE) from the left ankle with a padlock and chain. And even the police didn't have the tools to cut the chain. I got my hacksaw to cut the padlock. DEP. COMM. RICHARD ROSS, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPT.: Quite simply, this case just makes you shake your head. I mean it's despicable and unspeakable. The mere fact that, you know, individuals would treat disadvantaged people like this is just ridiculous. I mean -- and it just simply makes us sick.

CANDIOTTI: Neighbors couldn't believe what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just crazy that somebody -- like somebody in real life can do something like this. This is only stuff that you see in movies.

CANDIOTTI: Three people are charged, including Linda Weston, who police say orchestrated the alleged kidnapping. Police say the suspects traveled with their victims from Texas to Florida and arrived in Philadelphia October 4th. They're jailed on six charges, including kidnapping and aggravated assault. Investigators say they might have been stealing Social Security checks of the alleged victims. The FBI is looking into that. The four victims are now hospitalized.

ROSS: I don't know whether the motivation of this is financial or whether it's just out and out evil. I'm not sure. But either way, it's just a despicable act.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): The victims were in such bad shape the landlord who found them told us, if he had discovered them one day later, he believes they would have been dead.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: The victims, one woman and three men, range in age from 29 to 31 years old. They've been identified all except for one. His name is Herbert and that is all the police say they know. They believe he's from Virginia, but they are asking for your help identifying him. Their tip line number is 215-686-3154.

Now to politics and the money game. Should low numbers mean the end for some of the Republican presidential hopefuls? It's "Fair Game" and it's next.

But first, our political junkie question of the day. We know that Barack Obama set all kinds of fund-raising records in his 2008 campaign. But what has been the best one-month haul for any presidential candidate, ever? The answer when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: Before the break, we asked you, what is the one-month fund- raising record for a presidential candidate? And here is the answer. Barack Obama brought in $153 million in September of 2008. It was part of his record-breaking fund-raising for the whole campaign, but I'd be willing to guess all you political junkies know that already.

Time now to go beyond partisan talking points to the heart of the political debate, where all sides are "Fair Game." And today we're talking about money, the lifeblood of politics. Here are the third quarter numbers for the Republican presidential candidates. There really aren't that many surprises here, with Perry and Romney up top.

But what, if anything, should we be taking from those numbers? My guests today are CNN contributor Will Cain in New York, and Democratic political consultant Ed Spinoza joining me from Los Angeles.

And I guess, Will, I'll start with you. What do you think these numbers mean? And is there anything we should take away from them special?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I think we give a little too much credence or pay a little too much attention to how much money someone makes, as opposed to how much money someone has. And we do this with our neighbors and their big high-finance jobs and fancy cars, but not what they've got in the bank. We do it with companies. Groupon makes a ton of revenue, right, but no net revenue.

And in politics, the story is Mitt Romney's raised $32 million, while Rick Perry's raised $17 million. But Rick Perry has more money. He's spent less than Romney. The story there, what I'm trying to tell you, is Romney has spent money, yes, to set up an infrastructure, but also to achieve the position he's in, while Perry's money represents a little bit more potential. He still can spend that money to create an initial impression, negative ads about Romney. I think that's something to pay attention to.

JOHNS: Ed, one thing I think we really have to talk about is the Cain factor here. Here's a guy who's polling in the top tier of the Republican candidates, but he's only raised something like $3 million. What does that tell us? It sounds to me -- for example, I mean, at least I have to raise the question, are the voters taking him seriously if they won't give him as much money as the other guys?

ED SPINOZA, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Well, in politics, perception leads reality. And what Cain has done right now is created that perception. The problem he's got is he's raised $3 million, but he only has $1 million in the bank.

The reason we look at financial numbers in presidential campaigns is because it dictates how much people are able to communicate with a broad electorate. To give you an example of what a million dollars is worth, most competitive congressional campaigns in this country are multi-million dollar campaigns.

He's got a million dollars in the bank and he's running for president. Not a good sign. He needs to be able to capitalize on his popularity right now and turn that into some sort of a better financial figure if he's going to get anywhere in Iowa or any of the other early states, especially against $15 million war chests of Rick Perry and Mitt Romney.

JOHNS: Will, I asked before...

CAIN: We should say... JOHNS: Go ahead.

CAIN: So I was just going to say that Herman Cain's popularity boom or boomlet has come late in this fund-raising quarter. So the interesting thing will be can he turn this popularity into fund- raising for the next quarter.

JOHNS: Yes. Now, I asked before the break, is it possible that some of these candidates who are in the single digits in fund-raising ought to get out of the race? What's your answer to that?

CAIN: I don't think so. Look, I think there is an interesting and important debate going on inside of conservatism. It's about how important is the role of social conservatism? How interventionist should our foreign policy be? We have many internal debates going on, and all of these candidates represent different aspects of that debate. I think they're serving a very important role.

I think eventually, Rick Santorum, a guy who hasn't raised much money and doesn't get much traction in the polls, probably can't stick around. But right now, this is a valuable debate.

JOHNS: Ed, what about you? I mean, four years ago, a lot of people wrote John McCain off right about this time. And you know, should somebody get out so early, even if they're just not making a lot of money but have some potential?

SPINOZA: Four years ago, I was working for Bill Richardson. He had $21 million in the bank. It was good for 2 percent in Iowa and 4 percent in New Hampshire. Three of these candidates right now have less than $400,000 in the bank. It's not enough to pay staff or keep the lights on in these early states for the next three months. It's not enough to go on TV. It's not enough to get mail out to their candidates. (SIC)

JOHNS: All right...

(CROSSTALK)

CAIN: That's one way to look at it, Ed. The other way to look at it is that none of these numbers matter right now!

JOHNS: That's right. We still have a long way to go.

SPINOZA: They matter. They're not going anywhere. Yes, they should get out of the race right now and let the questions at the debates go to the real contenders.

JOHNS: All right, thanks, guys. Got to go. Appreciate that so much, Will Cain and Ed Spinoza. That is "Fair Game."

And remember to watch the Western Republican debate Tuesday night, 8:00 PM Eastern, right here on CNN.

If you live in this place, you live under constant fear of violent attack. And now the government is considering doing something many say will make living there more dangerous. We'll take you there next in "Globe Trekking."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: The border between Israel and Gaza is a dangerous place. So would you trade one life for 1,000? Israel's highest court is hearing arguments today about a controversial prisoner swap deal. At the center of it, this Israeli soldier captured five years ago in a cross- border raid. Many of the prisoners due to be released helped mastermind or carry out terrorist attacks against Israel. It has divided the country.

Matthew Chance is live in Gaza, waiting for this swap to take place. And Matthew, it's an emotional issue, but at the end of the day, it's mostly about security, isn't it.

MATTHEW CHANCE, SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at the end of the day, from the point of view of Israel, it's about making sure they don't leave anyone behind. It's one of the maxims of the Israeli military. It's a very militarized society. They -- it's a matter of pride for them. They don't leave their soldiers in the field, dead or alive.

And in the case of Gilad Shalit, of course, he's very much alive. He's being held by Hamas here in Gaza. And it's taken five years for the Israelis and Palestinians here in Gaza to reach this deal, which if you look at it from one perspective, is very imbalanced, 1,027 Palestinian prisoners being freed in exchange for this one Israeli soldier who was captured five years ago.

On the other hand, he is the only soldier that's held by the Palestinians and so the Palestinians had no one else to trade with, and so they got as many people released as they could in that deal with Israel.

JOHNS: A lot of people in Israeli society certainly support this swap. Why is it that so many Israelis are willing to go along with this?

CHANCE: I think, you know, the overwhelming number of people in Israel, according to the opinion polls, support this deal simply because they don't want to see Gilad Shalit, this young 19-year-old corporal -- or at least, he was 19 years old when he was taken by the militants here in Gaza five years ago -- to continue to languish in whatever conditions he's being held in here in Gaza any longer.

They want him reunited with his family. His parents have been very much in the public limelight campaigning for the government to do a deal, to secure the release of their son. And it looks like if all goes well over the course of next several hours, they will have achieved that.

But of course, everybody in Israel knows that there's a heavy price to pay. Many of the hundreds of Palestinians, the 1,000 or so Palestinians that have been released, have multiple life sentences. They've been convicted of involvement in some terrible atrocities that have been endured by the people of Israel over the past several years and further back than that, as well. And so it's very difficult to see those people released, for many Israelis.

In fact, we've got sound of one parent of a terror victim who spoke to us earlier. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARNOLD ROTH, FATHER OF TERROR VICTIM: Everyone wants to see Gilad Shalit safe and well and back home, but I think that there's a real failure to understand the price that's being paid. The price is phenomenal. We're releasing people who are dedicated, have dedicated their lives to killing Jews and Israelis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Nevertheless, despite that sentiment, which is held by a lot of people, the overwhelming opinion in Israel is that the deal should be done.

JOHNS: Matthew Chance, live in Gaza, thanks, as always, for that reporting.

Herman Cain says race should not be an issue in the run for president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R-GA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People sometimes hold themselves back because they want to use racism as an excuse for them not being able to achieve what they want to achieve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Why he says the notion of racism is overblown. An in-depth look at Herman Cain next.

But first, one person we won't be going in depth on, Lindsay Lohan and, it seems, her growing rap sheet. Lohan could be back in jail again. According to TMZ, the actress could face nearly a year-and-a- half behind bars if a judge rules she violated her probation again.

Honestly, we have lost count with all her DUIs, shoplifting, probation violations and court appearances. This time, she reportedly failed to show up to perform community service at a women's center. How many chances is this girl going to get? Give me a break.!

Lindsay, you may be a celebrity, but in our book, "Your 15 Minutes Are Up!"

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: This week we're looking in depth at a man a lot of Americans are just starting to notice, Herman Cain. He's alone among this year's crop of Republican presidential candidates in never having held public office. But that's not all that sets Cain apart, as we hear from CNN's Shannon Travis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Hello, Chicago!

SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER (voice-over): In 2008, Americans watched as one African-American kept his eyes on the prize and won it.

OBAMA: It's been a long time coming. But tonight, because of what we did on this day, in this election, at this defining moment, change has come to America!

TRAVIS: Fast forward three years. Another black man also eying the prize, also generating buzz, but who's reluctant to mention his race in the story of his journey. Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain also believes the notion of racism is overblown.

CAIN: People sometimes hold themselves back because they want to use racism as an excuse for them not being able to achieve what they want to achieve.

TRAVIS: Many of Herman Cain's conservative supporters agree race should not be a major issue. Why are conservatives reluctant to talk about Cain being a black man? For one, many say it's liberals who overly focus on race an politics. The candidate himself says this...

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Why is the Republican Party basically poison for so many African-Americans?

CAIN: Because many African-Americans have been brainwashed into not being open-minded, not even considering a conservative point of view.

TRAVIS: A second reason concerns the Tea Party. Critics have accused it of harboring racist elements, something Tea Party supporters deny. Though Cain's popularity is rising in recent polls, the former radio talk show host has long been a Tea Party favorite.

CAIN: What do you think about this whole Tea Party citizens' movement?

TRAVIS: He's been a sought-after speaker at Tea Party rallies. He's won presidential straw polls with strong Tea Party support, and many activists say they want him on a presidential ticket either at the top or as VP.

Organizers cite those facts against claims of Tea Party bigotry. Jenny Beth Martin is co-founder of the nation's largest Tea Party group, the Tea Party Patriots. She told CNN, quote, "I think that having an African-American with so much Tea Party support is another example that the Tea Party movement is not racist. It shows that we're looking at the issues and we're not looking at skin color."

Yet questions regarding Cain's skin color will likely continue. As many people celebrate Martin Luther King, Jr., at this weekend's dedication of his Washington memorial, Herman Cain has his own take on the dream.

CAIN: I have achieved all of my American dreams and then some because of the great nation, the United States of America! What's there to be angry about?

TRAVIS: Shannon Travis, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: And remember to watch the Western Republican debate Tuesday night 8:00 PM Eastern on CNN.

Rats, pigeons and owls -- what do they all have in common? They've all been dinner for this next guy coming up. Yes, how he ate roadkill for 30 years and why he says it's healthier than store-bought meat. Not kidding here. He's going to join us next. Who's hungry?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: Taking a closer look at stories making headlines across the country at street level, in central Florida, a disturbing sign of how much families are struggling to put food on the table. According to "The Orlando Sentinel," as many as 222,000 students are standing in line at school to get lunch for free or a few cents because their families can't afford it.

The number of students in the federally funded lunch program is staggering across central Florida. We're talking about 71 percent of students in just Osceola County alone. That's up from 63 percent four years ago.

Now to Newcastle, Pennsylvania, where CNN affiliate WTAE reports two brothers were charged for stealing a bridge worth $100,000 -- a bridge. Police arrested 24-year-old Benjamin Jones and his older brother, Alexander. This is the remote area where the bridge used to be. Officers say the Jones brothers cut the bridge apart and sold more than 15 tons of scrap metal for more than $5,000. The brothers face felony theft charges and stolen property, among other charges.

We want to hop to the Atlantic, to the English Channel, to take a street-level view of our final story in the U.K. What are you having for dinner tonight? Before you dish out the boring stand-bys of chicken or beef with a side salad, this may be something interesting, a budget-friendly recipe tip or two for you, like roadkill. No joke, Jonathan McGowan has lived off a diet of roadkill for 30 years -- you know, fallow deer, rat stir fries, owl curry. People are saying "Yuck" in the studio. How about a little cranflies (ph) of, I don't know, cauliflower mushroom.

Before you trash his exotic dishes, though, hear Jonathan out. He's on the phone with us from the U.K. Jonathan, OK, you don't actually kill the animals, correct? You find them...

JONATHAN MCGOWAN, FEEDS HIMSELF ON ROADKILL (via telephone): No.

JOHNS: ... on the side of the road or in the woods.

MCGOWAN: (INAUDIBLE) yes. Yes. I'm a conservationist and naturalist. And one thing I really don't do is kill any animals myself. Unfortunately, they're already killed for me. JOHNS: Why, though? I mean, why eat roadkill, as opposed to something you can make up in your own home out of the refrigerator or perhaps in a restaurant?

MCGOWAN: Well, I believe it's a much better meat. It's totally organic. And otherwise, it would totally go to waste. To see so many animals in the U.K. run over every day on even a short journey, I think it's a wicked waste. And I'm a taxidermist by trade, so as well as collecting the animals for preservation purposes, all I see is lovely fresh meat in front of me, and I'm not going to throw that in the bin. I'm going to eat it.

JOHNS: So I would take it you're very selective simply because you could be eating some animals that are diseased, if you're not checking the meat out pretty carefully.

MCGOWAN: There's a very small possibility of wild animals having disease here. I personally think that's farmed animals are far more likely to carry disease and (INAUDIBLE) problems. So wild animals don't usually live very long, so they don't usually accumulate pesticides or heavy metals or disease in them. But I'm very careful with the animals I pick up. And if I do see something that looks suspicious, then I won't take it.

JOHNS: You know, I can see eating perhaps the deer or something, but rats? It seems like that in itself is sort of a bridge too far. Rats?

MCGOWAN: Well, surprisingly, rats are very, very delicious. And I'd never pick up a rat from a town or a city. These rats live in the countryside. They live natural lives, away from human beings. They're eating berries and seeds and other kinds of natural foods, and they're not carrying any diseases or bugs. And I eat them and they are absolutely delicious, one of my favorites.

JOHNS: Well, it certainly doesn't look like that deer fit in the trunk of your car very well, but -- all right, thanks so much for that, Jonathan McGowan. Fascinating thought.

MCGOWAN: Thank you.

JOHNS: Tomorrow night, the campaign focus shifts to CNN's Western debate. Jim Acosta joins me live from Las Vegas. Jim, you've got some new poll numbers. What do they say?

JIM ACOSTA, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Joe. Our latest CNN ORC poll has come out and it shows what a lot of these polls have been showing in the last week or so, and that is Herman Cain right at the head of the pack or near the head of the pack. He is nipping at the heels of Mitt Romney, really just neck and neck at this point, our latest CNN ORC poll showing Mitt Romney at 26 percent, Herman Cain at 25 percent and Rick Perry at 13 percent.

That is a major reversal of fortunes for Rick Perry. Just last month, Joe, our CNN ORC poll showed Rick Perry at 30 percent. He was leading the field. He was ahead of Mitt Romney, who was at 22 percent at that time. Herman Cain was at 9 percent. So Herman Cain has nearly tripled his support among Republicans in this latest CNN ORC poll.

Another thing that I think is just really interesting about these poll numbers, Joe, is that two thirds of the Republicans that we surveyed said they might change their mind between now and when they have to vote in their individual state primary or caucus.

And you know, they're fairly satisfied with their candidates. The folks that we surveyed in this poll, only about a third of those said that they're not satisfied with the field at this point, but most saying that they're satisfied or fairly satisfied.

So Joe, some interesting poll numbers, more good news for Herman Cain. He made those very controversial comments over the weekend about immigration. He'll be tested on that, I would imagine, at this debate here at the Venetian Hotel tomorrow on the Strip in Las Vegas tomorrow night. And of course, we'll all be watching, Joe.

JOHNS: Great. Thank you so much for that, Jim Acosta. And we will certainly be watching for that debate.

And now it is time for Brooke Baldwin, and CNN NEWSROOM continues.