Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Amish Attacking the Amish; Mideast Prisoner Swap; Herman Cain's Polls Number Surge Neck and Neck with Mitt Romney's; Amish Cult Attacking Amish Community; President Proposes to Break Up Jobs Plan and Pass Pieces Through Congress; Case of Missing American Woman in Aruba Continues; Lady Gaga Sings at Bill Clinton's Birthday

Aired October 17, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And now continuing on here, hour two on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Here we go.

T.J. Holmes live in Las Vegas for tomorrow's presidential debate. Matthew Chance is in Gaza covering the prison -- Israeli-Palestinian prisoner exchange. And Karina Huber live in the New York Stock Exchange this hour with news about your cell phone bill.

Time to play "Reporter Roulette."

And we're going to begin with Matthew Chance -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, thanks very much. That's right.

Within the next few hours there could be one of the biggest prisoner exchanges for some time here in the Palestinian territories with Israel -- 1,027 Israeli prisoners -- sorry -- Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails will be swapped for just one Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was arrested here in Gaza five years ago. A lot of anticipation, a lot of excitement here in Gaza for that to take place, in Israel a lot of concern that too much of was given away for the release of just one man, Brooke.

BALDWIN: When -- do we know yet when we can expect the prisoner exchange to take place? When will Gilad Shalit be back on Israeli soil?

CHANCE: They're keeping those details very much under wraps, at least here on the sort of Palestinian side of things.

We're expecting in about nine hours now, that's about midnight your time, that the prisoner exchange will get under way with an initial release of several hundred Palestinian prisoners by Israel here into the Gaza Strip. Only then will the Hamas militant group who have been holding Gilad Shalit for the past five years transfer him to the Red Cross and he will be moved across into Egypt and handed to the custody of Israeli officials and taken home.

BALDWIN: OK. Matthew Chance live for us in Gaza -- Matthew, thank you.

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

BALDWIN: And then finally to Las Vegas we go.

T.J. Holmes covering the ramping up to the CNN GOP presidential debate.

T.J., what do you have?

T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the debate is coming up tomorrow night 8:0 Eastern time. You know there will be a lot of talk about the economy. And no better place to be talking about it than here in Las Vegas with its issues with foreclosure rates and also with the unemployment rate here. I got to talk to one of the foremost experts here on the economy here in Las Vegas, a cab driver.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANCE OLIVIA, TAXI DRIVER: The recession kicked in, the Strip got slow, they laid off thousands. These thousands couldn't find work. They started losing their homes. These people lose their homes, local construction starts slowing down. These people start losing their jobs. They start losing their homes.

HOLMES: And, Brooke, I was being kind of tongue-in-cheek there about the foremost expert on the economy here, but they can tell just by looking at the Strip that it's not as busy as it used to be. Economy here in Las Vegas one of the worst in the country -- 14.2 percent, Brooke, that is the unemployment rate here in the Vegas metro area.

BALDWIN: All right, T.J. Holmes, thank you very much.

Let's remind everyone the big debate tomorrow night 8:00 eastern right here on CNN.

T.J., thanks.

And that's your "Reporter Roulette."

Now this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a dungeon. These people were stored like surplus meat in the basement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A disturbing discovery to say the least in Philadelphia. Four mentally disabled adults found locked up in a basement. We are hearing there could be other victims in other states around the country.

Also, he is 100 years old, ran 26 miles. He is even revealing his secret for good health and a long life -- that story coming up in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(NEWS BREAK)

BALDWIN: Coming up next: four mentally disabled adults found locked in an apartment basement. They were rescued by the landlord, who will join me live with the details.

Plus, another strange story -- we're talking about Amish-on-Amish crime, five men charged with cutting off men's beards. Why the beards? What's the significance? What does this mean for the community overall? We are going to explain that coming up -- two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Defenseless mentally challenged adults held captive in a basement, locked behind a steel door, one of them chained to a radiator.

It sounds like something from a horror film, but police in Philadelphia say that is precisely what happened. They say the four people found by the building's landlord Saturday night were emaciated, covered in bedsores, living in filthy conditions.

Now three people here have been arrested. All of them face charges that include aggravated assault, kidnapping, unlawful restraint and false imprisonment. They're accused of stealing the alleged prisoners' Social Security checks. Police say that Linda Weston orchestrated the alleged kidnapping. They say she traveled to at least two other states with the people found in this basement and then she allegedly had I.D.s for about 50 people in her possession.

Here is what Philadelphia's police commissioner told CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES RAMSEY, PHILADELPHIA POLICE CHIEF: We have got about 50 different I.D.s of people, Social Security information, power of attorney information, those kinds of things which we now have to track down each and every one of these people to get their status. We believe that she's been involved in this for a period of time. We don't know how many victims, however, are part of this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Turgut Gozleveli is the property manager and the landlord of the building. He's the person who found these four people. He joins me now live from Philadelphia.

And, Turgut, if you can just take me back, sir, to Saturday night, I understand you were headed toward the basement following the sound of a barking dog and you come into this dark space. And then tell me, what did you see? TURGUT GOZLEVELI, PROPERTY MANAGER AND LANDLORD: It was actually Saturday morning around 10:00 a.m., my normal check of the property.

I arrived at the building. And I keep my tools, everything in the basement for the simple maintenance. When I entered the Basement, the lights wasn't working. It was everything was so dark.

On my vehicle, I went to pick up my flashlight, return back. I reenter the base, I start to hear the dog barking. That was no dog in the basement. And somehow I thought that some stray dog got in the basement.

And I followed the sound. I went to the sub-basement and saw that the old boiler room door is locked and the chain wrapped around the door handles. And when I unwrap the door handle and open the door and look at the things with my flashlight, I saw the blankets, pillows, that kind of things, filth, and pull the blanket from the ground. Underneath, I saw the human feces. And the dogs are barking.

And I questioned the people under the blanket, what they are doing here. I didn't get an answer, and dogs start barking vicious. Then I close the door to get out.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me jump in and just ask, so you tried talking to them, but they were unresponsive? They wouldn't talk back?

GOZLEVELI: They didn't -- any kind of response -- they didn't give me any kind of answers, but there was the kind of moments.

I thought that more than two people because when I pull the blanket that was two people showed up under the blanket. But the other side dark corner of the area, and the dogs were barking. And more moment -- was there. Being myself, I was not able to handle the situation. It was best to re-close the door and get out to the street and call police assistance.

BALDWIN: Call the police.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Turgut how large is that room? And how filthy were the conditions?

GOZLEVELI: Really, it was, I would say, about a 10-by-15 small old boiler room, which is not in use anymore.

I always keep the door open over there because during the heavy rains is the water seeps in the basement. And then my sump pump over -- and I always periodically stop by to check any water in the sump pump and never lock it.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Never lock it. GOZLEVELI: Yes.

BALDWIN: Did neighbors complain to you? Did anyone have any idea there was something suspicious happening in this building in this room?

GOZLEVELI: Oh, yes, not in the room.

I believe Wednesday evening our block captain, a lady, give me a telephone call. Something is happening on your property, site full of pillows, blankets. Come and you see your property. I said, who is -- they told that your tenants apartment fifth, that she's living -- she's putting this kind of garbage on the sidewalk.

BALDWIN: Wow.

GOZLEVELI: And I called her. And I couldn't approach her. Then I call her brother. I said, what is happening? On the sidewalk is the blanket, pillows happening. Then her brother call me back. I will be glad to clean it. I'm cleaning everything.

And when I arrive over there, the blankets and pillows, they filled up the property dumpster. Then I talked to her brother. He says that, my mother came and there were extra blankets and pillows.

BALDWIN: I can't imagine the discovery.

Turgut Gozleveli, what a discovery to find in your own small room beneath your basement, to find these four human faces one, of whom was chained.

Turgut, thank you very much.

In fact, I just got some news in my ear I just want to pass along with regard to the story. The alleged ringleader of all of this, her name is Linda Weston, she now faces a $2.5 million bond, the woman right there in the middle of your screen.

Now this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New York, God bless them, they're a wonderful city, but they have no connection to the space program and certainly no connection to NASA. So why would the shuttle go to New York? It's like putting the Statue of Liberty in Omaha.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Hmm. Well, when you think of New York, you did think of skyscrapers, right, the Statue of Liberty.

But a new plan could bring one of the four retired space shuttles to a museum in Manhattan. And some people are angry, even calling this whole thing -- quote -- "a bait-and-switch plan." John Zarrella live in Miami with the shuttle latest. Stay right here. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In about a year, maybe a little longer, you will be able to get close enough to touch one of the four now retired space shuttles. Now that the shuttle program as we know it is officially history, NASA is moving ahead with plans to get those spacecraft on permanent display in museums.

So more on this, John Zarrella in Miami.

And, John, I thought that the final destinations for the shuttle retirement homes are -- I thought that was a done deal. I thought it was established, so what's going on?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Yes. You're absolutely right. We all thought it was a done deal.

And in reality it still is a done deal, Brooke. But the folks in Texas from the get-go were not happy that they did not get a shuttle and New York did. And if you think they were angry then, they're angrier now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): There were only four retired space shuttles available, coveted, the holy grails of space flight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The space shuttle pulls into port for the last time.

ZARRELLA: Even at a cost of nearly $30 million apiece, dozens of museums bid. New York's Intrepid, Sea, Air and Space Museum on the Hudson River was one of the winners. It gets "Enterprise" a test shuttle that never flew into space. It's currently at the Smithsonian.

But, folks in Texas, home to the Johnson Space Center, never happy that New York got a shuttle when they didn't, are crying foul again."You bet we are," says this Texas representative, Ted Poe.

REP. TED POE, (R) HOUSTON: It is a bait and switch.

ZARRELLA: Bait and switch? Well, let's rewind. May of 2010, before the shuttles were awarded, here's what the Intrepid Museum's executive director told us then.

SUSAN MARENOFF-ZAUSNER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTREPID MUSEUM: On the west end of our pier, we currently have the concord, and we would look to shift the placement of the concord and place the shuttle in that spot.

ZARRELLA: But the plan now, construct a building, not on the end of the pier, but over here, on the other side of the busy highway, on land that's now a parking lot. Land they don't yet own. Next to a car wash, bagel shop and warehouses. Museum officials so willing to talk before they were selected wouldn't talk with us now. They issued a statement saying in part, "While we continue to be in the planning stages, we remain on track with both our logistics and our fund-raising." Poe, he's got plenty to say.

POE: New York, God bless them. They're wonderful city, but they have no connection to the space program, and certainly, no connection to NASA. So, why would the shuttle go to New York? It's like putting the Statue of Liberty in Omaha.

ZARRELLA: Poe wants bidding for "Enterprise" reopened. NASA on the other hand is satisfied with Intrepid's new plan.

CHARLIE BOLDEN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: I don't tell them how to suck eggs. You know, they gave us a plan. They told us they would have the money. They gave us a schedule and everything, and as far as I know, they're on schedule, and so, I trust them that they're going to deliver what they said.

ZARRELLA: But Texans say they have the history. The first words uttered when man landed on the moon, not New York but:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: So Atlantis will stay in Florida. Endeavour goes out to the California Science Center in Los Angeles. And Discovery will go to the Smithsonian. And then Enterprise goes to New York, if everything stays the way it's supposed to right now.

BALDWIN: So, I know you say on paper it's a done deal. You know NASA better than anyone. Is there any chance that they would change their minds?

ZARRELLA: It doesn't look that way. Now, I'm not sure what the administrator meant by, I don't tell them how to suck eggs.

BALDWIN: I was wondering the same myself.

(LAUGHTER)

ZARRELLA: But I think it's probably a done deal. You know, NASA and officials at NASA looked carefully at this plan. They want the maximum exposure for the space shuttles. New York gives them more eyeballs on a vehicle than Houston, according to the way NASA looked at it. So that's why they want to put it in New York.

BALDWIN: So then will Enterprise have to leave the Smithsonian to make room for Discovery?

ZARRELLA: Yes, it will in fact.

Now, this is really another one that's got the folks in Texas hopping mad, because the building probably won't be ready in New York, no matter where it's ultimately put, before Enterprise has to leave. So the plan is for Enterprise to be put in a tent at John F. Kennedy Airport in New York, climate-controlled tent there, until the building is ready because it's got to leave D.C. in order for Discovery to get into the Smithsonian.

BALDWIN: Wow. Ah, the juggling, the juggling.

John Zarrella, hey, thank you so much. Good to see you.

ZARRELLA: Sure.

BALDWIN: Coming up, Vegas the place to be this week if you follow politics. Seven GOP presidential contenders are participating in another CNN debate tomorrow night. New polls are out, who's's hot, who's no next.

Also, President Obama setting up on the three-day bus tour in Asheville, North Carolina -- more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I want to take you back to our poll just out. It confirms the Herman Cain surge. Have a look, if you would. Among Republican voters, Cain now trails Mitt Romney by a single percentage point. And that is well within the poll's margin of error.

Also take a look at this. Just last month Cain was down in the single digits, just nine percent. Now he's at 25 percent. Romney you can see he had a pretty good month as well. He's up from 22 percent to 26 percent. Let's go to Gloria Borger who, no, is not in Italy. She is in Vegas. She is our chief political analyst. Don't let the gondolas fool you. And I'm guessing -- go ahead.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You can hear the gondoliers. You can hear them serenading, absolutely.

BALDWIN: So Gloria Borger, I'm guessing all eyes on Herman Cain before the debate tomorrow night in Vegas.

BORGER: Sure. Yes, you know, if you look at that poll, you just mentioned, the Republican voters are incredibly unsettled. Some would call them fickle. It's clear they're looking for alternatives to Mitt Romney who seems to remain the same in the polls, sort of mid-20 percentage points.

And so I think what you'll see at the debate tomorrow night is Cain on the hot seat. And you're going to see people like Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry attacking Cain because they're losing support. Particularly they're going to attack him, I would think, on his nine- nine-nine plan. He was grilled on that a bunch yesterday. And even he admitted that in the end the nine-nine-nine tax plan could raise some taxes on lower and middle income Americans, which is not what people are really look for these days. So he's going to get the grilling not only from Anderson Cooper, but also from his fellow Republicans.

BALDWIN: Yes. We started to see some of those jabs last week in New Hampshire. But looking back to the semi-recent past, we've had the Bachmann bubble, the Rick Perry bubble, both popped under scrutiny. Now the spotlight is shining on Cain. Sure enough he said something Saturday he has since taken back. I you want to play this clip. He is saying he would build an electrified fence along the border with Mexico. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I tell you what, when I'm in charge of the fence we're going to have a fence. It's going to 20 feet high. It's going to have barbed wire on the top. It's going to be electrified. And there will be a sign on the other side that says "It will kill you! Warning!"

(LAUGHTER)

Mr. Cain, that's insensitive. No. It's insensitive for them to be killing our citizens, killing our border agents. That's what's insensitive, and that mess has to stop!

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You could hear the cheers as he was talking about the electrified fence along the border, we should also say. He later said that was a joke, but I'm guessing Gloria Borger you can only get away with one of those "just kidding" things.

BORGER: Right. And he actually said it twice. He said that it was a joke. I'll tell you, here in the state of Nevada lots of people aren't going to think that's funny. Very large Hispanic population here, very interested in the immigration issue, very interested in serious immigration policy.

And so, again, this provides another opening for those conservative candidates who are competing with Herman Cain for the Tea Party voters to say, you know, wait a minute, this isn't a joking matter. And, in fact, that's exactly what Michele Bachmann said today. She also wants to build a fence, but she said, don't joke about it. It's a very serious issue.

You know, he said Americans need to get a sense of humor. It's a rough economy out there. Immigration policy is really important. I don't think anybody wants to joke about these serious issues. They want to hear serious solutions. So again, that is going to be another issue that will come up in our debate.

BALDWIN: Let's remind everyone - Gloria Borger, thank you very much -- tomorrow night live on CNN the Republican candidates for president gathering in Vegas to debate. We're calling it the Western Republican presidential debate, 8:00 eastern hosted by Anderson Cooper.

And so that's the Republicans. Now let's talk about the president. Today he launched his three-day bus tour, two days in North Carolina, a quick stop through Virginia. Back if 2008 Barack Obama carried each of those upper south swing states, each by a narrow margin, especially North Carolina.

So first stop this morning, Asheville, a town that was likened today to Berkeley, California, in the Blue Ridge Mountains, pretty receptive to the president. Here he is comparing his jobs plan to that of the Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So far at least I feel better about my plan.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: But let's admit I'm a little biased. So remember those independent economists who said our plan would create jobs, maybe as many as almost two million jobs, grow the copy by as much as two percent? So one of the same economists that took a look at our plan took a look at the Republican plan. And they said, well, this won't do much to help the economy in the short term. It could actually cost us jobs. We could actually lose jobs with their plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The president also said that since Senate Republicans blocked his jobs plan from being debated he's going to break that plan into a bunch of small pieces, get Congress to vote on those. He also says he'll seek a vote on his desire to hire teachers, police, and firefighters.

Coming up, how long do you think it would take for someone to, say, walk around the world? One man did it. He is finally home. We'll have that.

But first, we are on the case today with Ms. Holly Hughes in studio. Prosecutors say new tests prove Michael Jackson did not swallow an overdose of sedatives. The Conrad Murray involuntary manslaughter trial is on hold until Wednesday. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Developments from Aruba today in the case of that American man detained in the disappearance of his female traveling companion. A court has denied Gary Giordano's request to be released. "On the Case" today with Holly Hughes talking about that and the Dr. Conrad Murray case.

But first, we know a lot have been following the case since August when he was initially arrested by police in Aruba after Robyn Gardner from Maryland disappeared. Police say they didn't have enough evidence to hold him, yet he's still there.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

BALDWIN: So what happened? HUGHES: Well, what they're doing is continuing their investigation. Remember, they collected certain items off of that beach. I think there was a condom they collected and some other things. So what they're probably doing is having DNA tests done on every piece of evidence. And what we see is they haven't gotten the results back yet.

So the judge is going to allow them to hold him. They don't have enough to charge him yet. They haven't been able to sort of return what we in the United States call an indictment, the actual charging document. They're not there yet because they're not ready to walk into court and say we can prove it. But they say there's enough for him to still be held in custody there while they continue their investigation, continue interviewing witnesses, and hopefully come up with enough to charge him soon.

BALDWIN: But then there was that insurance policy, right? It was Giordano the beneficiary of a $1.5 million accidental death policy days before they went to Aruba, right?

HUGHES: Right.

BALDWIN: So that's clearly --

HUGHES: That just doesn't pass the smell test. That stinks to high heaven, because what you're looking at, this isn't a couple that was together before they went on this trip. They were sort of internet friends, they talked back and forth. But they had not really had a serious relationship.

So for him to be taking an insurance policy out on her makes you pause right then and there. Then of course she accidentally just disappears in the ocean? So yes, this isn't where she was murdered and her body was found. He wants everybody to believe, if in fact he's the one responsible for her disappearance, oh, she just got swept out to sea so he can collect on the policy.

BALDWIN: As we mentioned obviously he's still down in Aruba. He's in jail, he wants out. He has another detainment hearing coming up. Will it just be the same story then?

HUGHES: The judge gave the state or the prosecution down there a certain amount of time. And that time has run. So I think what the judge is going to be looking for is what kind of progress have you made? Because, you know, to hold somebody when they're not charged, let's face it, that's a deprivation of their rights.

They don't have the U.S. constitution. Here in the U.S. you'd be sprung. We can't hold on to you without charging you. But I you think the judge in Aruba is going to look very seriously at what coined of progress have you made? How close are you to getting, say, maybe DNA results back? What is the status of the case? Because if you're telling us you haven't made progress, his defense team has a compelling argument for releasing him and saying, hey, if something comes up in the future and you want to charge him, we'll talk about extradition then. But in the meantime he needs to go home. BALDWIN: So we'll see what happens with that hearing coming up.

Also, Conrad Murray on involuntary manslaughter, that's on hold until, what, at least Wednesday. The defense wants more time to study the new lab results. Prosecutors say the new tests will prove Michael Jackson did not swallow that fatal dose.

HUGHES: Right. And the defense has to have the opportunity to not only, as the lawyers, review the new reports and the new evidenced, but they're going to want to give it to their experts and say, OK, now our experts have to have the opportunity to review and make sure that those tests were done properly, that procedure was followed, that there wasn't any contamination or anything that would affect the results of the tests.

And we also have Dr. Steven Schafer who is supposed to testify for the prosecution as their last witness, and he had a death in his family. His father passed, which is another reason we're seeing a little bit of delay. So it's sort of a combination of factors. This judge has been fantastic about keeping this on schedule.

BALDWIN: Didn't he say it would be just like three weeks?

HUGHES: Right, exactly. So he's kept everybody moving and he obviously understands the need for the defense to look at this evidence and to present it to their experts because you don't want this coming back on appeal, if indeed there is a conviction, saying you denied us the appropriate time. So he's being careful to give everybody what they need, but I still think we're probably going to see it wrap up by next Monday. I think we'll have it to the jury.

BALDWIN: Wow. Holly Hughes, thank you so much.

HUGHES: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: "On the Case" for us today.

Now this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our firearms sales seem to have taken an increase. Ammunition sales have gone up. We've sold out of mace three times this week. We've had quite eye few cameras we've sold for people to put on their property.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: An Amish community shaken over recent beard cutting attacks. Some parents have even been attacked by their own children. We have an Amish expert live on the show to give us some information with regard to this Amish-on-Amish crime, what it means.

Also, Wolf Blitzer in Vegas, we'll have a preview from him, who he has coming up on "THE SITUATION ROOM." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Leaders of an Amish community in rural Ohio are doing something that people of their faith really simply don't do. They're asking for help, police help from outside their tight-knit religious circle. And that's after these men and a couple of others were arrested on very unusual charges. They're accused of breaking into the homes of Amish families, holding down the adults, and cutting off their hair and beards. It's unusual circumstances that people outside the Amish faith may find hard to comprehend. We couldn't think of anyone better to help explain all this, the significance of this, than Professor Donald Kraybill, one of the country's leading experts on the Amish faith from Elizabethtown College in Pennsylvania. Professor Kraybill, thank you for taking the time to come on.

And if you can, let's just begin with help us understand the significance of these attacks where I know some women's hair was cut short and men's beards cut off.

DONALD KRAYBILL, SOCIOLOGY PROFESSOR, ELIZABETHTOWN COLLEGE: That's correct. The beard cutting and hair cutting was instigated by a renegade Amish group. The leader left the Amish, the main Amish community, about 15 years ago and set up a cultic-like community in a different county in a remote area. And his behavior contradicts all the standard Amish expectations for behavior, and some of it is quite serious.

BALDWIN: If I may, though, just first explain the significance of beard cutting in this community.

KRAYBILL: Well, adult men, after they are married, grow a full-length beard. There are references in the Hebrew bible to the beard. Women also allow their hair to grow to full length, again, based on biblical teaching from the New Testament. And so a full-length beard and full- length hair for women is viewed as an important symbol of Amish adulthood. And so to cut those off is really, you know, a way to assault Amish identity and Amish -- typical Amish behavior. It is viewed as very shameless

BALDWIN: OK, I was going to ask, so just that would be equated to an assault on their faith and their community. Also, I know, having covered the Nickel Mine School shooting years ago, Amish people are very, very private. It is difficult to get them to talk. Being a member of the media, they want to turn the other cheek. Can you just talk to me about that and the significance of them reaching out to the outside and calling police?

KRAYBILL: Well, they prefer not to call attention to themselves, and so they are reluctant to appear on media. And likewise in terms of inviting the help of local law enforcement, they typically prefer to solve their internal problems and religious problems inside their community.

But when they become serious or involve some kind of violence, they will turn to the outside law enforcement agencies for help. And so, the families who were assaulted, some of those families are the ones that agreed to cooperate with law enforcement authorities. BALDWIN: And sir, in your years of expertise in this field, have you ever heard of anything like this?

KRAYBILL: I don't know of any other cases like this. And it is really not correct to call this Amish on Amish violence --

BALDWIN: Because you say it was a renegade group.

KRAYBILL: Precisely.

BALDWIN: Got it.

KRAYBILL: This renegade leader acts like a cult. He uses, he masquerades under the Amish name, uses religion as a way to create a kind of barrier between himself and law enforcement officers. He thinks he is invincible and answers to no one else except to himself.

So in all of those ways, and other ways, including accounts of sexual abuse and physical abuse in his cultic group, he certainly doesn't qualify for the name "Amish."

BALDWIN: Professor Donald Kraybill, thank you very much. Beard- cutting and now arrests. Thank you so much, sir, for helping us understand the Amish community and what's going on.

Now to this, a note now about a man from Montreal who decided to go on a little walk one day, and that walk was 11 years ago. Jean Beliveau is back home in Montreal again after walking around the world. So back in 2000 he said he had a midlife crisis, closed his business, and started jogging. Beliveau ran all the way to Atlanta before slowed to a walk, kept going over six continents, through more than 60 countries, wearing out 54 pairs of tennis shoes. His goal, he says, was to raise awareness about peace and nonviolence for children. And now that he is home, maybe he will sit down a little while and give those running shoes a break, I suppose.

Coming up, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf is live in Las Vegas. And you have Ron Paul on the show.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Ron Paul, Dan Pfeifer, White House communications director. We have a lot coming up, Brooke, the next two hours. Brooke, I just want to remind you and our viewers, last week we had a very serious discussion about a very popular singer, does a lot of great songs, and you were pronouncing her name one way and I pronounced her name another way. Do you remember that?

BALDWIN: Yes.

BLITZER: Do you remember?

BALDWIN: Of course I remember.

BLITZER: We will remind our viewers who that famous singer is. Just to remind you, she has a very good song with Eminem, "I love the way you lie." I'm giving you a hint. BALDWIN: Joe Johns is laughing at you in the studio. I believe I was saying, you were saying Rihanna. And I actually think -- I did some homework.

BLITZER: I went and checked. I did some investigative journalism. I went to Google. There are videos of her. She is from Barbados. So I wanted to hear show she pronounces her name. Is it Rihanna as you said or Rihanna as I said? So let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIHANNA, SINGER: Hey guys, I'm Rihanna, and --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wolf Blitzer, is this your way of saying, Brooke Baldwin, I told you so?

BLITZER: It's my way of saying she is from Barbados, and in Barbados they say Rihanna, in the United States they say Rihanna. Have you been to Barbados?

BALDWIN: I have not, Wolf. Should we go sometime? You can show me how to speak.

BALDWIN: I've been to Barbados. I have to thank my make-up artist. She is the one who took me off to there.

BALDWIN: Thank you for clearing that up. You want to talk about why you are in Vegas?

BLITZER: So from now on we all say Rihanna. We don't say Rihanna anymore, OK?

BALDWIN: OK. I'm told we have to go. So I'll just tell everyone, you're in Vegan. Ron Paul is coming up on the show. Mr. Pfeifer as well from the White House. Can't wait. See new five minutes. Bye, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you, very much. My goodness. You just never know.

Lady Gaga, Stevie Wonder, Ashton Kutcher, Bono, celebrities showed up -- stop.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness. Joe Johns is coming up with "Political Pop." Come over here. We will be right back. Rihanna, what was that about?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Former President Bill Clinton celebrating the 10th anniversary of his foundation over the weekend along with his belated 65th birthday party. Joe Johns in studio.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hello.

BALDWIN: Hello. Thanks for being part of the giggle fit. Let's talk about this.

JOHNS: Yes. Gosh, Ashton Kutcher, Lady Gaga. She was the big headliner. I have it written down here, Bono, Ellen Degeneres, Usher. Plus were there, people like Kenny Chesney, Stevie Nicks, Stevie Wonder.

BALDWIN: But its Gaga we want to talk about.

JOHNS: Just incredible.

BALDWIN: What did she do.

JOHNS: I mean, she is very edgy. And you know that. And she was very edgy here in fact. She actually, not only did she flirt the bird, she also dropped the f-bomb.

BALDWIN: At the former president.

JOHNS: Yes. Let's listen.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LADY GAGA, SINGER: If someone had told me so many years ago that I would be doing that right in front of y'all, I would not have believed them. Give just a good American (EXPLETIVE) you.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: There you go.

BALDWIN: OK so we blurred that. So that was one bit of fun.

JOHNS: A birthday party for a former president, probably not a sitting president, because if you were at the White House, it would have been all about respect for the office.

BALDWIN: Yes, that would have been a no-no. What else did she do?

JOHNS: The thing is, former president Clinton was totally prepared for this, which is interesting. He was able to ride with it and even made a little comment about it. So listen to what he said.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: She always kinds of goes off the edge. She said she was going to have a Marilyn moment. I thought, my god, I get Lady Gaga and I will have a heart attack celebrating my 65th birthday.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A "Marilyn moment."

JOHNS: Isn't that funny? It's a reference to 1962, Marilyn Monroe singing for the president of the United States John Kennedy, completely different situation.

BALDWIN: So we are out of time. Good to see you.

JOHNS: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: Come back tomorrow.

JOHNS: I love it here. I'll see you here.

BALDWIN: Wolf Blitzer, "THE SITUATION ROOM" in Vegas now.

(LAUGHTER)