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All U.S. Troops Out of Iraq by End of Year; Death of Moammar Gadhafi; U.S. Troops to Withdraw from Iraq

Aired October 21, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's just stop and pause for a moment, take a moment really to consider the words President Obama spoke now, just about over an hour ago. He said the U.S. role in the Iraq War is essentially over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year. After nearly nine years, America's war in Iraq will be over.

We will continue discussions on how we might help Iraq train and equip its forces, again, just as we offer training and assistance to countries around the world. After all, there will be some difficult days ahead for Iraq, and the United States will continue to have an interest in an Iraq that is stable, secure and self-reliant. Just as Iraqis have persevered through war, I'm confident that they can build a future worthy of their history as cradle of a civilization.

Here at home, the coming months will be another season of homecomings. Across America, our servicemen and women will be reunited with their families.

Today, I can say that our troops in Iraq will definitely be home for the holidays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Home for the holidays. You hear that? Music to the ears. I know so many American families there, and the withdrawal has been a promise since the president's campaign. But today it is official.

Multiple CNN correspondents are working this one for us this hour. I want to begin with our chief White House correspondent, Jessica Yellin.

And Jessica, it's official. The war is ending.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. And the president emphasized -- sorry. There's a lot of construction here. The president emphasized repeatedly that is he making good in this on his campaign promise. That was a theme throughout his remarks today. He and his aides, who spoke for some 30 to 45 minutes after him, emphasized that Iraq is in a position to protect itself, that its troops are ready, that it is stable and prepared to ensure its own security, and that the U.S. and Iraq will have a strong relationship going forward, but it's not a diplomatic relationship.

Keep in mind that there will still be a U.S. presence there. There will be two consulates and an embassy, and 4,000 to 5,000 U.S. contractors there. But White House aides say that they will be protected in the same way that U.S. contractors and embassy officials are protected in dangerous spots around the world -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: And in listening to the president speak, I know that he mentioned Nuri al-Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq, saying that he had spoken with him this morning, essentially saying that they are on the same page. Yet, Jessica, we know that Defense Secretary Panetta and the Iraqi government essentially failed to reach that agreement, that status of forces agreement.

YELLIN: Right. And it was not so long ago that Maliki, in Iraq, had made clear that he would like some U.S. presence to remain, primarily in a training and advisory capacity, and even U.S. military officials had indicated they would like some presence, too.

The disagreement was over immunity for U.S. soldiers. The U.S. wanted to guarantee that U.S. soldiers would be granted that immunity. That agreement was not reached, and so the U.S. troops are all coming home.

The president sort of bust over this in his remarks and just didn't mention it. And so he said that the U.S. and Iraq are on the same page on this one -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We'll drill down on the whole immunity issue with Chris Lawrence in just a moment there at the Pentagon. But final question to you -- and I'm paraphrasing -- essentially, also, the president said that tide of war is receding, he mentioned Afghanistan, he said, "We'll be out of Afghanistan soon if I get my way," and he addressed, Jessica -- obviously, we have problems here domestically, need to focus on that.

What did that signal to you?

YELLIN: That signals that he wants the American people to know that these wars are winding down under him, not ramping up. That troops are coming home, and that it's his priority to start spending as much as he can, money, here, shoring up the U.S. economy, and helping improve Americans' lives, and not on nation building, quite simply -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jessica Yellin, our chief correspondent there at the White House.

Jessica, thank you so much.

And I do now want to go to the Pentagon and Chris Lawrence.

Really, Chris, to drill down, as I mentioned, on the issue of U.S. troop immunity, because it sounds like that was really the crux of the breakdown of discussions between the U.S. and Iraq in terms of keeping that 3,000 to 5,000 U.S. troops there.

Explain the importance of immunity, will you?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, you look at one of the very first lines of the Iraqi constitution. It says, "No law will conflict with Islam." That is a very simple line, but it has a lot of implications, down to the mundane. Say if a Muslim-American soldier were to convert to Christianity while he was in Iraq, or if an American soldier were to be critical of Islam during the course of his work in Iraq, it could pull some problems.

All of this -- you know, those are mundane. But if you think of bigger issues, you think back to 2006, five American troops were charged and later convicted of raping and murdering a teenage girl in Iraq.

There's a small number of troops who have engaged in very egregious crimes in Iraq. Now, in that case, one of them who was out of the military by the time it came to trial, he was convicted in civilian court, the others went through courts-martial. But without immunity, they would have been subject to Iraqi laws and tried in Iraqi courts, under an Iraqi prosecution, which is a very different scenario. And that's something that the U.S. military and the U.S. government, as a whole, just could not stomach, that kind of a deal.

BALDWIN: The president mentioned a season of homecomings, saying our troops in Iraq will definitely be home for the holidays. Do we know, when we're talking about these 39,000 U.S. troops, do we know what is next for them once they are home?

LAWRENCE: Well, they will probably just go back into a normal cycle of deployment. You know, many would go back to their home bases.

There was one particular brigade who CNN spoke with about a week ago. They were supposed to be one of the last brigades to pull out of Iraq, but they were actually coming home early. And some of their family members told CNN the reason that they were given by the military was because Iraq and the U.S. were not able to reach a deal, and so their deployment was cut short early.

Of course, you have got the 39,000 still there. And obviously, right now, the priority will be making sure that they get home or most of them get home by the end of the year.

BALDWIN: And are taken care of once they're home.

LAWRENCE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Final question to you though, as we look -- once those 39,000 are gone, and we look at Iraq, and we look and Iraq's neighbor, how does this move -- how might it embolden Iran? LAWRENCE: Well, you can see where the administration is definitely selling this as a win, but look at the bigger context and look at what has been said by senior officials over this past year.

The U.S. ambassador to Iraq, in July, said that they had forensic evidence that Shiite militias were using weapons from Iran. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called it a tremendous concern. And his predecessor, Robert Gates, said most of the U.S. troops who were being killed were being killed by sophisticated and powerful weapons from Iran.

Well, if Iran had that sort of tremendous influence in Iraq while there were tens and thousands of American troops there, how then will that influence be diminished when all of those troops are gone? I think the administration would have to answer that question in order to truly sell this as a winning scenario.

BALDWIN: Yes. It's a concerning question, Chris Lawrence.

Thank you so much, reporting from the Pentagon.

A little bit more of our breaking news here in just a moment, including an interview with one of the very first soldiers on the ground in the Iraq War zone. He's going to join me live in studio with a story you will not soon forget.

But we have a lot more to cover, a lot of other stories to cover for you in the next two hours. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Moammar Gadhafi captured alive, but somehow, minutes later, the dictator's life comes to a bloody end. Now an investigation with new video continues to pour in.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(voice-over): He's not the first tyrant to meet his end, and many are warning, he's not the last. Gadhafi's death fueling new protests across the Middle East as NATO decides what's next for Libya.

After dozens of wild animals terrorize a town, new questions about owning exotic pets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ever have a close call?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day.

BALDWIN: CNN investigates. Feeding time and exotic crime.

Cell phones and cancer? Don't worry about it. We're going to tell you why, but there's a big "but" in this new study.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to get to the doctor.

BALDWIN: A guy racing to the hospital gets pulled over for speeding. Now the police officer, under investigation because of who was sitting in the passenger seat.

And heart-pounding moments under water. A kayaker face-to-face with a 50-foot blue whale. You will see the video.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We know just a little bit more today about the killing of Moammar Gadhafi, and the closer we get to the truth, the more it appears that Gadhafi's death mirrored his manner of ruling. In other words, in a word, brutal.

Take a look.

This is Moammar Gadhafi's body. It's in a cold storage unit in Misrata more than 24 hours since his death near his hometown of Sirte. It has not been buried in accordance with Muslim tradition. It may, in fact, be needed as evidence.

More on that in just a moment here, but first, we have some newly- obtained video. It is graphic. Fair warning here. Turn away if you don't want to look.

Once again, it's Moammar Gadhafi. Moammar Gadhafi was alive at the time of his capture. We're going to take a closer look at this video in just a moment.

But I do want to bring in Ivan Watson, live for us now in the capital of Tripoli.

And Ivan, who is in control of Moammar Gadhafi's body? And what is holding up this burial? Is it a problem?

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he does appear to be -- his body is on ice, you could put it. It's in some kind of a cooling unit, I believe, in the city of Misrata. And it's the opposition, the rebel fighters and opposition, Transitional National Council, that are the de facto government now in Libya that are in control of his body. And they say they're postponing right now his burial until later, because they want to leave it open, the option for representatives of the International Criminal Court to possibly investigate the body.

They say that they've performed a forensic analysis and they've sent those documents to the ICC, but they want to leave it open in case some international expert needs to take a look at that corpse before it's buried. They say they do not want it to be buried in a public place. They don't want it to become a place of pilgrimage for Gadhafi's remaining supporters -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. So it's evidence so far.

I want to go back, Ivan, talk specifically about Gadhafi's death yesterday. And I want to start with the scene of the capture. Take a look here. This is the drain pipe outside of Sirte where Gadhafi was apparently hiding. And we're hearing the fighters who found Gadhafi may have found him by surprise. They didn't even know he was there.

And, again, warning, this is graphic. This is newly-obtained footage confirming Gadhafi was seriously wounded as he was hauled to a car.

The question becomes, what happened then?

I want you to listen to the human rights watchdog group who's there at the scene investigating this as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER BOUCKAERT, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: We know that he was taken from this drain, together with some other senior leader. His military chief, Abu Bakur Yunis (ph), was actually dying just as they found him.

But as soon as he was brought out to the road, enraged fighters starting pulling on his hair, punching him in his head. And he was basically beset upon by a mob of fighters.

They tried to put him on the front of one of their vehicles and drive him away. He fell off the vehicle, but ultimately he was put in the back of one of their vehicles and taken away. He definitely left from this area alive, without any gunshot wounds to his head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Ivan, if he left that area alive, there is the very real possibility, is there not, that Moammar Gadhafi was executed? Correct?

WATSON: Well, that's one of the questions that's being raised, it's a question that's being raised by the United Nations Human Rights Commission as well, which has called for an investigation into just how in fact he died.

If you take the National Transitional Council at their word, they say that he was taken by the fighters alive, and then somehow they drove into some kind of a crossfire between pro-and-anti-Gadhafi fighters, and that's when he was killed. You hear from that Human Rights Watch representative and from the United Nations Human Rights Commission calling for an investigation.

I just talked to the special representative from the United Nations, also saying it's time to look into how exactly he died. And there is some suspicion that it could have been an extra-judicial killing.

There certainly was a motive there, Brooke. A lot of the fighters are believed to have been from the port city of Misrata, which endured a brutal, deadly siege by Gadhafi's forces. And then, after months, managed to break out. These men certainly had a motive after seeing their loved ones die and bombarded by artillery. But perhaps wanting to carry out vengeance against Gadhafi himself.

BALDWIN: And again, just to point out, despite the gruesome nature of our conversation, I see fireworks over your shoulder. I'm assuming that, still, celebrations are continuing over the Libyan -- the Tripoli night sky as a result of the news here.

But, Ivan, let's take it a step further. The human rights folks are saying that if Gadhafi was executed, then this is a blemish on the new Libya.

Do the people who live under Gadhafi's repression, the Libyan people, do they see it that way?

WATSON: Well, it depends on who you talk to.

You are seeing fireworks in the background here, occasional tracer fire guns being fired into the air. A lot of people honking their horns right now.

It's the second night of celebration here by people who are overjoyed at the death of a man that they call a tyrant. Not everybody agrees with him, though.

And I've talked to people throughout the day here, some of whom opposed Gadhafi, but say, we didn't want him to go down this way. We didn't want it to be so bloody and so brutal. We wanted to see him before a court of justice.

And then there are the other people that we're not hearing from who are too afraid to come out publicly and speak who, when I was here just a little more than two months ago, were out in the streets chanting Gadhafi's name. They were his supporters, and these people, some of them, were crying in front of their television screens last night when they started to see the corpse of the man who has dominated so many sectors of life here in Libya for nearly 42 years.

BALDWIN: Ivan Watson, in Tripoli.

Ivan, thank you.

Coming up next, physically, how does the end of the Iraq War actually go down? Not only is the U.S. pulling troops out, but tanks, equipment, weapons. And what happens when the last troop crosses the border? Where do tens of thousands of Americans go now that a war is ending.

General James "Spider" Marks is standing by with more on the breaking news, the only way CNN can bring it to you, right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Huge news today. Breaking news today. Historic day, some have been describing President Obama announcing that the war in Iraq is ending. U.S. troops will be home by the holidays, a season of homecomings, he said.

I want to bring in Spider Marks, the former commanding general of the U.S. Army Intelligence Center, who is now retired.

General, nice to have you on.

GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), FMR. COMMANDING GENERAL OF U.S. ARMY INTELLIGENCE CENTER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I would like to begin, actually, on just a more personal note. And I thought about this as the president was remarking on what it must be like for that final member of the U.S. forces to be crossing that border, leaving Iraq.

What is that moment going to be like?

MARKS: Well, it's going to be a fantastic moment for that unit, for that unit's -- for that young soldier's chain of command, clearly. it's a tremendous feeling knowing that you're going to go back home, you're going to see your family, you're going to be able to continue with your training and working with your buddies. So it's a day of high-fives all around on a very personal level.

The concern then is, how do you reintegrate? How do you maintain a level of readiness and focus? And the Army, frankly, all the services, have got a decade of experience, and certainly decades before having gone to war. But we know how to do this, the service will keep these young men and women focused.

And to your point, what do they do next? And clearly, it's getting ready for a very broad range of mission sets that, in many cases, they haven't focused in on, because in every case, every unit that has gone to combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, has known that piece of ground that they were going to go to and the missions that were going to be required. Now you've kind of opened the aperture a little bit and you have a much broader range of possibilities.

BALDWIN: So, General, we're talking about 39,000 American troops, but we're also talking tanks, equipment, weapons. How, literally, does that process work? What goes first?

MARKS: Well, the individuals that do not own the maintenance requirements of that kit, of those tanks, of those aviation pieces, those folks will go, and you can get them out of harm's way and get them moving. All that other hardware has to move to certain locations. Inevitably, southern Iraq, into Kuwait. They will be fitted and then shipped back home.

The good news for the Army is they will then be able to invest on getting that equipment that really has been kicked around for the last decade. They will be able to bring that back.

It's what's called resetting the force. And they will be able to do that over the course of months so that those units can get right back up to their readiness levels.

There are always requirements for units to be ready. We do a very bad job of predicting the future. So units have to be ready to go and, again, with a very broad range of capabilities and possible mission sets.

BALDWIN: You say -- pointing out this is good news. Obviously, the president speaking just about an hour ago, saying this is great news, it's a win, he's making good on his promise. Although, do you see any kind of strategic loss here?

MARKS: Brooke, I said it's good for Private Marks. If I was coming home, that's great news.

I'm leaving Iraq. Adios, brother. I am OK leaving.

My point to you is, I think it's great for the individual soldier. I think it's a big mistake strategically. We've put ourselves at an incredible risk. These are two different discussions we're having here.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's have that second discussion then.

MARKS: Maybe we need to reset and talk about that.

BALDWIN: How is it a strategic loss? How is it a big mistake?

MARKS: It's a big mistake. Look, let me take it from the bottom up.

From the standpoint of a military guy, it takes about eight to 10 years to grow non-commissioned officers. We've been assisting the Iraqi military for about the last five, six years in real earnest to get their military in order. And they have made magnificent strides.

They have to grow an entire generation of these non-commissioned officers. Without NCOs, the army is bupkiss. So you've got to have great NCOs, and it's going to take you a lot of time to do that, and they are not really set yet.

And you also have to have a force, you know, excess of about 400,000 to include security forces. And it takes a long time to train a good cop.

So we have to be prepared to be a good ally and a good friend and make our presence known and available to the Iraqis. They've stated that they don't want us, it's time for to us leave. And that's a big mistake strategically for the United States.

BALDWIN: So, then, what does Iraq look in five years?

MARKS: Well, as I told you, we've done a bad job of predicting the future. I could see some fault lines that just get increasingly broader over the course of time.

Now, the United States -- and I have no inside info here, but I would guarantee that the United States is probably going to have a presence in Kuwait, with a lot of kinetics, a lot of maneuver forces, with the ability to respond when, suddenly, there's a requirement for someone to raise a hand and say, America, would you please help us again?

BALDWIN: Spider Marks.

General, thank you so, so much.

MARKS: Sure. Thank you.

BALDWIN: And coming up next, joining me live in the studio, one of the first soldiers on the ground in the Iraqi war zone is going to share his emotional story and what it's like to see this war nearly nine years later end.

Don't miss this interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: So, what is it like to be on the front lines of war?

I'm fortunate enough to have someone who was right there when the Iraq invasion started. This is Joey Hurst, former U.S. Army specialist who began service in Iraq in 2003. He was in the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, worked on tanks, and he's also the guy who tells me what camera to look at here in the studio.

Joey Hurst, I just found this out. Your time in Iraq, I just found that out last weekend. I asked you an hour ago to join me, and I appreciate the short notice. We're going to flip the script on you today.

The news today, that the war is ending by the end of this year, you were in the beginning phase, this is the end. Is this great news?

JOEY HURST, FMR. U.S. ARMY SPECIALIST: Oh, it's fantastic news. I'm always one for the troops, and especially when you are over there on the front lines and you know duty, honor, and sacrifice. Those aren't just words for us. That was our way of life and that's how we conducted ourselves.

BALDWIN: Take me back to April of '02 when you were deployed. How long were you over there?

HURST: It was April 2003.

BALDWIN: Excuse me, 2003. How long were you there?

HURST: I was over there until September 2003. This was right as the invasion started and we -- I was stationed at Ft. Carson, Colorado, at the time with the 3rd ACR and we flew from there to Kuwait and then we convoyed in with our vehicles into Iraq. Everybody remembers the monumental occasion when the statute of Saddam came down in Baghdad. I was there two weeks after that.

BALDWIN: Were you frightened when you went in first? HURST: I was. Yes. There were times when you thought, am I really going to make it home and you just realize that the mission comes first.

BALDWIN: What was your specific mission? What exactly were you doing during your time there?

HURST: My job was to prepare tanks and get them battle-ready for the firing components of them that made them run and operate. So, you know, it's a pretty big need while you're over there.

BALDWIN: And you guys were the first groups really to come into Iraq, first Americans. How did the Iraqis receive you?

HURST: They were up in arms with us. I remember on many occasions when we would pullover on the side of the road to take a quick break or whatever, we go into a little market areas for a few minutes, they would swarm us and just come and give us hugs and kiss us and say, we love you, God bless America, thank you.

BALDWIN: What about just the whole process of setting up there militarily? I mean, you were there for the very beginning?

HURST: Right. It was definitely a -- there was never one day that was the same. Every day was different. One day we would be at a certain location and the next day we would be 50, 100 miles north of another location until we got to our permanent place, which is about three months after we went into the country. We went in and I was stationed at (INAUDIBLE) Iraq, at little abandoned air force base there.

BALDWIN: What is the one day, the one moment that you will forever carry with you?

HURST: I will never forget when a friend of mine was killed in action. He was going down in the convoy and his Humvee got hit with a roadside bomb and it injured two people and he lost his life, Sergeant Williams. And he left behind a wife and two kids.

And you never forget that moment -- you want to see, you know, grown men cry, you just listen for a bugle playing "Taps" and see -- you see what sacrifice really is.

BALDWIN: So as these final units leave, just in time for the holidays, just if you can, since you were there, put yourself in their shoes, the final unit crossing out of Iraq. What is that moment like?

HURST: It's just one of pure jubilation. I'll never forget the day that the day I was told I was going home and I remember flying home and I remember being on the airplane and we were flying in a commercial jet and the captain came on the air and said, I just wanted to let you troops know that you've entered U.S. air space. Welcome home.

BALDWIN: You give me goose bumps. HURST: And someone was singing the "Stars Spangled Banner." I mean, you realize why you went over there and exactly what you did was for a good cause and for a good reason.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much, Joey Hurst, on so many levels. You work with people. And you just have no idea.

HURST: Thank you. I appreciate it.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much. Wow.

Now this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We wanted it to be transparent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Herman Cain getting heat for his 9-9-9 plan. Guess what? He's changing it. We're going to explain how it affects.

But coming up next, we'll speak live to someone who interviewed Moammar Gadhafi three different times, has a fascinating perspective on the dictator, including his thoughts on the possibility that Gadhafi might have been executed. Jim Clancy is standing by as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. I have Jim Clancy, our veteran correspondent, back here in the studio to talk about the death of Moammar Gadhafi. Jim covered Gadhafi for decades, interviewed him three different times.

And, you know, whether we liked it or not, he was a bit of an international icon. And I guess, ultimately, my question is, you know, given all that Libya has known for 42 long years, will Libyans miss that kind of leader or think, OK, go back to normal now?

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I don't know that they know what normal is. You realize today was the first day that they woke up for, what, three-quarters of the population, the guy that had run their lives, all of their lives, was no longer there -- the very first day today.

I think that they are looking for answers and they don't yet know what kind of government they're going to have, what kind of leader they're going to have. They know what they don't want, they're not even sure of what they want, Brooke. This is going to be a very difficult time and they're going to need a lot of help putting together a government there and healing of the difference, the deep rifts that still remain in Libya, there are tribal rifts, sectarian rifts, there are economic rifts.

And they are going to have to try to solve that and equally divide up that oil money. That is -- when Gadhafi used to rule the country, they have to do it among themselves and reach an agreement, a consensus.

BALDWIN: And then I wanted to ask you a little bit more about the death itself. We know that there is talk that Gadhafi was, you know, possibly executed. We heard a human rights group saying that he wasn't killed when he was put in that car headed to Misrata. And some are saying that is a bad omen for Libya.

You've been around a little while, Mr. Clancy. So, I know you remember Romania's Nicolae Ceausescu. We talked about Ceausescu, in fact, before -- communist dictator who tried to flee an uprising and was caught and killed on the spot.

Also, Saddam Hussein of Iraq, another dictator. He was actually tried and then found guilty and then hanged. And we all know that in retrospect that Saddam Hussein being tried didn't satisfy the insurgents. They didn't care either way. They kept fighting.

So, my question here in the West is, are we making too big of a deal about the way in which Gadhafi died or was killed? Do you think Libyans even care?

CLANCY: They do care. They do care because of how it reflects on them. But I can tell you that when those young fighters, no training whatsoever, full of emotion, family members, friends killed in this conflict, his fate was sealed the moment they put their hands on him.

Wounded as he was, dazed as he was, he did not have long to live. They'll talk about it. They'll debate it. The U.N. will investigate it. I'm not sure it would make a whole lot of difference the way that it happened.

Some troubling questions won't be answered, but maybe they never would be. You know, will we get an answer to Lockerbie, Pan Am 103?

BALDWIN: Right.

CLANCY: Probably not. Saddam Hussein didn't admit anything when he stood in the dark for months.

BALDWIN: Well, what is the latest you're hearing, Jim Clancy, with regard to the specific on how Gadhafi died? Do you anymore?

CLANCY: Well, I talked to the ambassador, the ambassador of the United States today. And he put in -- well, he repeated the government line but he basically said that his fate was sealed, that the young fighters, you know, once they took him into their hands, that was probably it. He talked about -- he said, officially, of course, there was a firefight.

But already Human Rights Watch on the scene has said there wasn't any firefight in that direction that day, that the fighting was all but ended. Here was a man, a leader, love him, hate him, he was alive when they took him away. Some of the reports are saying that he actually -- the wounded Gadhafi fell off the truck, the hood of the truck when they were trying to transport him, they put him back up on there, and he must have been in horrible shape, but it's believed to be that somebody probably executed him at close range.

BALDWIN: Jim Clancy, thank you very much.

Still ahead, do cell phones cause cancer? A new explosive study suggests that they don't. But you may want to hear all the reasons before you breathe that sigh of relief.

Also, even though troops are leaving Iraq, thousands of other Americans will remain behind, including contractors and diplomats. So, what happens with them? We'll speak live with Jill Dougherty who is right now travelling with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. Back to the breaking story and let's go to CNN's Jill Dougherty, traveling with Secretary of State Clinton. She is in Tajikistan today and joins me by phone.

And, Jill, with regard to the president's announcement that essentially the Iraq war will be ending by the end of the year, we're talking about 39,000 American troops. But there is a difference between American troops and just simply Americans. We know contractors will remain for security and training. So, what can you tell me? What will the State Department's role be in that?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, you know, let's look at it this way. The military pulled out and then the State Department does really what it's supposed to do in any country, which has had this relationship with the country diplomatically and on many other levels. And that is going to continue.

But the big difference, Brooke, you'd have to say, is the security situation. These diplomats at the embassy in Baghdad, for example, there are 1,700 -- 1,700 diplomats, business and development experts, law enforcement officers and all sorts of professionals, agriculture professionals, from all sorts of agencies, but when they try to do their job, the security situation is still pretty dangerous. So, they need security, and that's where you get numbers that make it quite different from any other place in the world.

Baghdad is the biggest embassy in the world, and for instance, at the embassy, they're going to require 5,000 security contractors who are going to protect them. Then they need another 4,500 contractors to give them things like food, medical services, airplanes, laundry, sanitation, you name it.

So, the numbers total just in case you're interested, 16,000 civilians total.

BALDWIN: Wow.

DOUGHERTY: Now, they knew that this was coming. This was going to have to move over into the State Department's hands. And even before this announcement, they knew it would be challenging. They say they can do it, but it really is going to be a big job.

BALDWIN: OK. So, even though we're talking 39,000 U.S. troops gone, as you pointed out and I was going to ask you if you could add it all up, 16,000 civilians will have to be there was far as security, et cetera.

Jill Dougherty, thank you so much, on the phone, travelling with the secretary of state.

Now this --

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HUSBAND: If some woman in your family and you remember this day, you stopped us from seeking medical treatment so that you can write the ticket for whatever violation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A guy gets pulled over on his way to the hospital in the passenger seat, his ill wife. Wait until you hear what she offers to do and why there's now an investigation.

Plus, as the search gets more desperate for missing baby Lisa Irwin, there is now word, witnesses saw something in the street that night and it involves a baby. We're just getting in town from one of those witnesses. We'll share that with you, next.

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BALDWIN: Here's a story that is most definitely generating a bit of outrage during this month of October being Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Let me set this up for you.

So, Roxanna White has stage 4 breast cancer. She was having chest pains. So, her husband Jimmy rushed her to the hospital. But on their way, he was stopped by a Roswell, Georgia, police officer for doing 44 miles per hour in a 25 mile per hour school zone.

Listen to the dash cam video from the officer's patrol car.

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POLICE OFFICER: She's having a heart attack, sir?

HUSBAND: I don't know. We're trying to get to the doctor and you're writing a ticket.

POLICE OFFICER: OK, ambulance is on the way, sir.

HUSBAND: If some woman in your family -- and you remember this day, you stopped us from seeking medical treatment so that you can write the ticket for whatever violation.

POLICE OFFICER: Sir, I'm trying to explain everything to you and get some documentation or something.

WIFE: I tried to show you my body, what else do you want me to show you?

HUSBAND: You want her to pull her breasts out and show you?

POLICE OFFICER: That's not what I want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Turned out, that Mrs. White had blood clots in her lungs.

The Roswell Police Department is investigating that traffic stop, but has also defended their officers saying he followed procedure.

New developments in that frantic search, ongoing search for little baby Lisa out of Kansas City. Police are following up reports from at least three different witnesses who saw this unidentified man carrying a baby the very night Lisa disappeared from her crib.

Jim Spellman spoke with one of those witnesses who said she and her husband saw a man walking past their home right around midnight that night. She has asked that her last name not be used to protect her own family.

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"LISA," WITNESS: We couldn't really tell the race at that time: it was dark and the lighting isn't very good to tell somebody's race. But we were able to see that he was kind of taller. I would say at least 5'8" or taller and he was really slender. The baby's complexion stood out way different than the gentleman carrying the baby. The baby was very pretty pale, like pale white.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And what color was the gentleman's t-shirt?

LISA: White.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Investigators, as you know, they have been scouring Irwin home again and digging around the foundation, even using X-ray equipment. Police took out bags of possible evidence and roll up carpet from the house.

Still no word as to what they have found there in the search for little baby Lisa.

And if you watched this show often, which I'm sure you do, you know I'm a big music fan and I have been taking guitar lessons on and off really since high school. So, when I saw this Oklahoma man giving the gift of music to some troops in Afghanistan, I had to share it with you. So that is coming up.

Also, heart-pounding moment underwater. A kayaker face-to-face with a 50-foot blue whale? Wait until you see the rest of this video.

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BALDWIN: A California woman risks her own life to rescue this truck driver from his burning big rig. This happened Wednesday morning on Highway 101 in San Francisco. Look at the pictures. Clearly the flames very, very strong, coming from this overturned cement truck.

So, 22-year-old Keenia Williams saw the whole thing from her rearview mirror. So, she jumps out of her car, leaves her 5-year-old daughter in her car, goes to this 52-year-old man Michael Finerty. Fire officials say diesel fuel is streaming from the truck at this point, creating a wall of fire between them and the man stuck.

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KEENIA WILLIAMS, RESCUED TRUCK DRIVER: My first instinct was to run over there, I put my arms under his arms and I dragged him all the way to my car. And I had my towel and coat over him because he was shaking and I just tried to keep him warm. And so, I just comfort him and so -- while he's there because he was in pain.

DEP. CHIEF TOM SIRAGUSA, SAN FRANCISCO FIRE DEPARTMENT: She made all of the difference in the world because the truck driver was on the ground, on the other side of the fire. So, from our approach, we had to extinguish the fire and probably wouldn't have seen him on the ground if nobody else had stopped.

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BALDWIN: The truck driver was treated for minor injuries at the hospital. He was released. Williams was honored by the Fire Department and the California Highway Patrol. How about that?

A California kayaker had a pretty close encounter with a mighty large whale. Take a look at this amazing video. Rick Coleman was just kayaking off Redondo Beach when he came upon this enormous blue whale feeding, lunch feeding in the water. Coleman was able to capture the spectacular site on camera.

He says, I'm quoting, "It was heart-pounding excitement." Look at how close he was getting to this thing. Yikes!

Coleman even jumped off his kayaker to get some of these underwater shots of this blue whale. But Coleman says he doesn't, quote, "recommend, endorse or in any way want to encourage anyone to try and swim with these whales."

The National Marine Fishery Service agrees with that and recommends that you and be alert disturbing a whale. You have to stay 100 yards away from a whale. And if you can't avoid a whale, do not move into its path. Move faster than the whale or chase a whale.

There you go. Whale watching guidelines for you today.

Well, you've heard that music can really soothe the soul. But what about easing the anxiety of being in a war zone? Many troops in Afghanistan like to play their guitar or maybe taking music lessons in their down time to try to relax. But a lot of them simply don't have instruments.

But a few more do -- thanks to a man here in Oklahoma. When they learned of their plight, instead of selling them guitars from his shop, he gave them away, far away.

Dan Bewley with CNN affiliate KOTV has more.

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DAN BEWLEY, KOTV REPORTER (voice-over): Todd Cooke is the man behind Guitar House, a Tulsa music store and guitar specialty shop. One of his customers is also a member of the 45th Infantry who is deployed in Afghanistan.

TODD COOKE, GUITAR HOUSE: I can't imagine doing the job that they're doing. I think that we should be able to do anything we can to help those guys out.

BEWLEY: Cooke's idea was to donate guitars, tuners, bags, picks, and strings.

COOKE: We sent six of these and then we sent two of a smaller size, an orchestra size that would fit the smaller soldiers and the women.

BEWLEY: These pictures from Afghanistan show the joy when the Oklahoma gift arrived. Some of the soldiers already know how to play, others are taking lessons. No matter the reason, the men and women say playing the guitars helps take their mind off the stress of being in a warzone.'

COOKE: I think it brings them a little piece of home, also gives them a little peace that they're able to kind of forget about what they're doing right now and maybe just relax for a change.

BEWLEY (on camera): It wasn't just Todd and Guitar House who made donations, the company that makes the guitars, Bedell, also donated guitar cases for the soldiers. And A Glorious Church in Collinsville paid for shipping and handling to the tune of $300.

COOKE: I just think it's the right thing to do. It's just -- you know, why not give them some joy? They're definitely -- you know, they're away from their families and everything else that they know so if that can bring any joy to them that will be great.

BEWLEY (voice-over): Cooke isn't worried about the cost, he says it's worth it just to know that those putting their lives on the line are able to relax at times, all while pickin' and grinnin'.

COOKE: It means a lot. I mean, I'm glad that I was able to do something for them because I can't imagine doing the job that they're doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: In case you were wondering what kind of music the troops are learning? Think classic rock and roll, we're talking "Hotel California," "Sweet Home Alabama" -- just to name a couple of the tunes. Pretty amazing.