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Perry Lays Out Flat Tax Plan; Gadhafi Buried In Secret Location; Tunisia Election Results; HPV Vaccinations For Boys; Today's Rock Stars Are Turkish Rescuers; Jackson Death Trial Nears End; Oil Spill in New Zealand; Manhunt in Texas for Serial Rapist

Aired October 25, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR: CNN NEWSROOM continues with Randi Kaye right now.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Joe, thank you. And hello, everyone, I'm Randi Kaye.

He calls it Cut, Balance and Grow, but Rick Perry might have called his tax and spend reform plan cut, balance, grow and catch up. As you may have seen live right here on CNN, the Texas governor and Republican presidential hopeful today unveiled his answer to the nation's economic woes and to Herman Cain's 999 platform which vaulted him near the top of the Republican pack.

The Perry plan would give Americans the option of paying the income tax rate they pay now or 20 percent. It would keep the hugely popular mortgage interest and charity deductions for families earning less than half a million a year and would boost the standard deduction for filers who don't itemize. It would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 and temporarily slash it to 5.25 and it would eliminate taxes on stock dividends and long term capital gains.

Now, Perry says he aims to unleash American ingenuity for a new American century.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will set our employers and our people free by slashing the cost of government, cutting taxes for the middle class families, balancing our budget and growing our economy. The future of America is too important to be left to the Washington politicians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And joining me now with more on Perry's numbers and what they might mean is CNN's number one numbers guy, Ali Velshi.

Hi there, Ali.

So, this is kind of a flat tax and kind of not. So, how would it shake up the current scheme?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the issue with it is that I don't know who in America wouldn't choose the 20 percent. So, right now, what you'd do is you could run the numbers three ways, you could do it with 20 percent he's purposing, you can do it the normal way which he says he'll leave in place, and then you can do it with the alternative minimum tax which a lot of Americans pay.

Generally speaking, for almost all wealthy in the country, the 20 percent is going to be a better deal, so they'll take that. So, you're going to lose a lot of revenue from that side and for many other people, they're probably going to get a tax break. So, what we haven't understood, and we won't know this yet, is how this effects how much money the government actually ends up collecting.

Now, Rick Perry's argument is regardless of whether it's revenue neutral or not, meaning regardless of whether the government gets as much money out of this new tax plan or not, what you're doing is you're taking less out of people's pockets and business's pockets, and that money in traditional economics would be used to buy things, create demand and create jobs and that should spur the economy.

It's a little more nuanced than the 999 from Herman Cain, but I think a lot of study has to be done to see whether this would actually spur the economy. It's bold, I'll give him that.

KAYE: Yes. But when you look at what's on the table here, when we're talking about taxes cut, taxes eliminated, and a balanced budget in eight years, that's a lot. I mean, can we get there all through spending cuts?

VELSHI: No. In fact -- No. The short answer is no. There would be one exception to that no, let me tell you what that is. And that is that if all of a sudden this was so bold that everybody in corporate America and the global corporate world said, oh my god, America has become the best deal in the world to do business in, so let's go and build factories and move our headquarters there and do all these kinds of things, that's not likely to happen.

The ultimate thing that drives job creation in the world is demand. And what we have is a weak economy in the United States, it's not terrible but weak, and a weak economy in Europe and weakening economies in India and China. Demand is what's going to spur growth. This may do, may not do it.

Here's the other issue, it's going to be very tough to bring in these cuts now. Lots of people think that America's corporate tax should be brought down. He wants to bring it down from 35 to 20, a lot of people think now is not exactly the time to do it. That maybe be a three or four year out thing when the economy is starting to do better.

KAYE: Yes. He was talking about something called a territorial tax system.

VELSHI: Right.

KAYE: Can you shed light on that? VELSHI: Right. So, let's say you're a major American corporation based in let's use Houston as an example, and you have a billion dollars in profit from all your operations all over the world. According to the system we've got right now, you've made, you know, a half a billion of that in Russia, let's say, or in India. After a certain allowance for making money overseas, you pay taxes in the United States on money that you made elsewhere.

A lot of companies are saying, well, hold on, I've got to pay those taxes in Russia or in India or in China and then I have to pay it again in the United States just because I'm head quartered here? So, what Rick Perry is talking about -- is saying if you're an American based company, you only pay income tax on the profit that you made in the United States -- it was generated in the United States, not the other territories in which you made money.

Again, there are people who worry that while that could be a boom for business, it also could encourage those companies that prefer to make investments where the money is to continue to do that. Now, the counter argument, the one that the Perry supporters of this plan will use, is that it's not fair to charge people tax on money that they've made elsewhere and that has been taxed already once elsewhere.

So, he's tackling a lot of issues in this proposal. It's robust, it's got a lot of stuff in it. It's unclear whether this will generate the business necessary to get the economy back on track. And if it doesn't generate growth, Randi, then his plan reduce the deficit and cut spending in a short time may not work.

KAYE: Yes, because it is certainly all about the economic growth. Ali Velshi, great to see you, thank you very much.

VELSHI: My pleasure, Randi.

KAYE: And speaking of money and Ali, you should know that he and our colleague, Christine Romans, have a new book. It's called "How to Speak Money: The Language and Knowledge You Need Now." You can preorder or you can buy it in stores coming November 8th.

Now some other headlines we're following for you. Five days after his death, former Libyan leader, Moammar Gadhafi, has finally been buried. Libya's National Transitional Council says the burial took place early this morning at an undisclosed location. Council says members of Gadhafi's tribe were allowed to pray over the body and Gadhafi's son, Mo'tassim, and his defense minister were buried in the same spot. The three bodies had been on public view in a cold-storage unit in recent days but were removed temporarily so autopsies could be conducted. The autopsy confirmed that Gadhafi was shot in the head but there are lingering questions surrounding his death.

It looks like a moderate Islamic party has won the Tunisian election. Preliminary returns show the once banned party with a significant lead, 90 percent of Tunisia's registered voters turned out to choose a constituent assembly that will write a new constitution. This was the first election since the ouster of Tunisian president, Ben Ali, touched off the Arab Spring, a movement that also toppled Moammar Gadhafi in Libya and Hosni Mubarak in Egypt.

Boys as young as 11 need protection from a sexually transmitted virus. That's what a federal advisory committee said today. It recommended vaccinating boys to protect them from HPV, a sexually transmitted virus linked to several forms of cancer. The vote was 12 in favor with one abstention. The Center for Disease Control is likely to go along with that recommendation. The CDC already recommends HPV vaccinations for 11- and 12-year-old girls.

Michael Jackson just wanted to sleep and Dr. Conrad Murray wasn't the only doctor that he asked for help. How Jackson was desperate and took actions into his own hands. A look at the defense next.

But first, it's that time where we give a shout out to someone who's just a bit awesome. And today, well, it is several folks, these folks, the rescue workers in Turkey searching in rubble for earthquake survivors. Today, it is being called a miracle. They pulled out a two week old baby alive two full days after the quake. To all of those heroes, you are today's "Rock Stars."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: In today's crime and consequence, lawyers for Dr. Conrad Murray are now presenting their side in the Michael Jackson death trial. Today is the first full day of defense witnesses after the prosecution rested its case yesterday. But some drama just moments ago in the courtroom. Nurse practitioner, Cherilyn Lee, who began testifying yesterday, told the judge she wasn't feeling well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHERILYN LEE, NURSE PRACTITIONER: I'm feeling really, really dizzy. I'm sorry, my vision has just become a little blurred, so if you can give me a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Lee, if you're not feeling all that well, do you want to rest for a little bit? Do you feel that might be of any help to you?

LEE: If I could just rest a little bit if you don't mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Lee is back on the stand now and she's sure to be asked about what she's told CNN in numerous interviews that Michael Jackson had asked her about Diprivan, another name for Propofol. The powerful anesthetic the medical examiner says killed him. Also yesterday, we heard from Dr. Alan Metzger, one of Michael Jackson's former doctors. He told the jury he had seen Jackson a few times in the last decade or so to discuss his health, nutrition and both excitement and fear about his upcoming concert tour. But the defense zeroed in on a conversation Dr. Metzger had with Mr. Jackson just two months before he died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did he mention to you any specific medicine that he hoped to obtain for these sleep issues?

DR. ALLAN METZGER: He asked me about intravenous sleep medicine.

CHERNOFF: Did he happen to mention the name of this medicine?

METZGER: I think he used the word juice. I don't think I heard the word of a specific medication.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The defense was trying to show that Jackson had requested I.V. anesthetic from other doctors not just Conrad Murray. But here's the problem for the defense, Dr. Metzger says he never gave Jackson Propofol or any other intervenes sleep medication. The prosecution jumped on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID WALGREN, PROSECUTOR: When Michael Jackson inquired about intravenous sleep medication, you explained to him that that was dangerous, life threatening and should not be done outside of a hospital, correct?

METZGER: That's correct.

WALGREN: Did you ever give Michael Jackson Propofol?

METZER: Never.

Is there any amount of money that you would have -- that would have convinced you to give him intravenous Propofol in his house?

METZER: Absolutely not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The defense was trying to show Jackson did have a sleeping disorder but the problem is the people they're putting on the stand to show that also refused to give him Propofol, unlike Dr. Conrad Murray. They could wrap up their case as soon as Thursday.

More than 300 tons of oil spilling in the water off the coast of New Zealand, animal life in jeopardy. And what's up with these penguin sweaters? It's our "Undercovered" story next.

But first, a look at the videos that you're watching on CNN.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: More than 300 tons of oil spilling into the ocean. Miles of shoreline contaminated with more than 100 tons of oil and waste. It is the worst maritime disaster in the history of New Zealand. But it's a story that's been under covered, so we're giving it some much needed attention.

Now here's the situation. A containership ship called Rena crashed into the Astrolabe Reef off the coast of New Zealand's North Island on October 5th. Right now cleanup crews are scrambling to pump out what oil is left inside the ship before the disaster worsens. The ship's captain and other officer face criminal charges for causing unnecessary danger or risk.

And the oil spill is a major threat, as you can imagine, to wildlife. Over 1,000 birds have been found dead. And little blue penguins, who come ashore at night, are also at a great risk. Rescuers, like the ones you see in this World Wildlife Fund video, are finding them covered in this thick oily gunk. Some describe it as peanut butter. Luckily, more than 100 have also been saved.

And there's this. OK. How amazing are these pictures from Australia and South Africa from a few years ago. Knitters in New Zealand are busy whipping up similar sweaters for their blue penguins. We're told the wool sweaters prevent the penguins from preening their feathers and from soaking in toxic oil.

I want to bring in oil slick expert Ian MacDonald, who is an oceanographer at Florida State University, to talk more about this.

Ian, this particular area is an important habitat for many species. What kind of impact do you think this spill might have on them?

IAN MACDONALD, OCEANOGRAPHER, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: It's already had an impact. It's killed hundreds of birds and they're having to move the blue penguins out of their normal nesting areas and build special aviaries for them. There was a release of oil -- several hundred barrels of oil were released recently from the ship over the weekend and have begun drifting toward the Mayor Island, which is also a very important nesting area for birds.

So, unfortunately, this disaster has been going on for a while and they haven't yet got it under control.

KAYE: You say that this came really at the worst possible time in the worst possible place. Why is that?

MACDONALD: Well, every oil spill is miserable in its own way. But in this case, the oil is coming ashore right when the little blue penguins are in their nesting burrows taking care of their young and taking care of their eggs. And that's the same for many of the nesting birds in this area.

This is the Bay of Plenty. It's one of the richest areas off New Zealand's North Island coast. There is white sandy beaches, stony beaches. This is a tourist area. Very famous for commercial and recreational fishing.

So this disaster shuts all that down. Oil loose in the ocean is never good for the ecology or the economy of the coastal environment. And this is no exception.

KAYE: You know, I covered the BP oil spill along the Gulf Coast for months and I saw what happened to the wildlife there. I mean it was just horrible to see. But you say that this is actually more like the Exxon Valdez spill and not so much like the BP spill?

MACDONALD: That's right. Here you have a ship that's aground on a reef about 12 miles offshore. And the oil is coming out. They know exactly how much is on board and they can use somewhat conventional methods for trying to get it out. That's the big challenge right now.

Over half of the oil that the ship was carrying is still on board the ship. And although they have pumps and pipes going out to it, the stuff has got a consistency of a very thick honey. So it doesn't -- it resists being pumped out of the ship. And the big fear is that there may be a storm or something that would break the ship up and dump the rest of this oil into the ocean.

So that's very different from the BP blowout where you had a deep sea release point far from land and the spill went on at a much greater volume over a longer period of time. This is closer to the Exxon Valdez where you're releasing oil close to shore and you have the chance of intervening with pumping and booming the vessel.

KAYE: Ian MacDonald, great to have you on. As we said, this, we think, is a story that's not getting enough coverage, under covered, in our opinion, so we're happy to talk about it with you. Thank you very much.

MACDONALD: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: Rick Perry says scrap the tax code and lays out his own flat tax plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: Cuts taxes and it also cuts the spending. And it balances the budget by 2020 and it grows jobs and it grows the economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The big question is, how accurate was he? A CNN fact check next.

But first, news on this day in history. A horrible cover-up back in 1994. Susan Smith reports her children missing, saying a carjacker took her car with her young children inside. It was a story that captured a nation. But the truth is, she made a false report to cover up the fact that she had murdered her children. Now that is this shame in history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Job creation, balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility. Rick Perry's Texas-sized goals for the economic blue print that he rolled out this morning in South Carolina. It would cut or eliminate all sorts of taxes, but keep many deductions. It would cap federal spending and offer personal retirement accounts as an alternative to Social Security. Perry promises to put our fiscal house in order. But face time is all about the facts and that brings me to CNN's Tom Foreman who's in Washington with us today.

Tom, this plan looks like great news for wealthy investors and corporations, true?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Governor Perry would say it's great news for everybody. In fact, that's specifically what he said, Randi. Listen to this one really important piece of sound from that speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: Families in the middle and on the lower end of the economic scale will have the opportunity to get ahead. You know, taxes will be cut across all income groups in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: Wow, who can be against that, huh, Randi? Taxes cut for everybody in the country. But let's take a look at the details of that. Basically he's saying there are advantages for everybody in this plan.

But that's where it gets tricky. You talk about the wealthy. Among the things that are in this plan, according to his speech today, Randi, are cuts in whatever they have to pay in terms of dividends taxes, the corporate gains taxes, in terms of inheritance taxes. When you talk about those types of things, you're generally talking about people who trend toward higher income, whether they're really wealthy or not, because, frankly, if you're making $20,000 a year, there's not a lot of inheritance to worry about in most cases.

But what about the rest of the people? That's the real key here. One of the cornerstones of this plan is a standard exemption of $12,500 per person. So if you had a family, Randi, of say two adults and one child, you're going to quickly go over $36,000 in exemptions before you pay any taxes. That's the way he's addressing the idea that the lower end of the spectrum suffers more in some kind of a change like this. He's trying to say everybody benefits. But 51 percent of the people in the country paid no taxes in 2009 anyway, according to a congressional study earlier this year. So I don't know how you can reduce the tax burden on people who are paying no taxes at this level (INAUDIBLE).

Bottom line, Randi, once you add all of this up, we think it comes out to being a case of it being true but incomplete with a big emphasis on the incomplete part because there's so many things we have to cut up in these numbers to figure out really where this comes down. Easy to produce a sound bite, much harder to produce a bottom line.

KAYE: And speaking of sound bites, one that sounds pretty interesting is balancing the budget in eight years. Possible?

FOREMAN: Is it possible? I don't know, Randi. The White House, at any moment, will say something is possible. Congress will say things are possible. I think the problem we run into, Randi, when people start saying they're going to balance the budget, look, part of his plan here says we will allow you to choose between this new simple tax code that you'll fill out on a postcard or you can go with the old tax code. Well, how do we know who's going to choose that and how many will choose it and what that will do to revenue in this country.

I think a projection of eight years from now in this economy is really impossible for anyone. I don't want to fault Governor Perry more than I would any other candidate, or the president for this. But the simple truth is, eight years is a long time in an economy like this. So is it possible? Yes, it's possible. The question is, is it probable? And I'm not sure if it's probable for anyone right now.

KAYE: Well, at least we're talking about it and that's positive. So that is good news. Tom Foreman --

FOREMAN: We'll see.

KAYE: Thanks for the fact check.

FOREMAN: See you, Randi.

KAYE: Appreciate it.

First, Donald Trump, now Rick Perry, talking about the president's birth certificate. Perry says he's just poking fun, but is it really a good issue to keep alive? Wolf Blitzer breaks it down for us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: If you thought the birther issue was gone, well, it's back. Rick Perry has now gotten in the middle of it, though maybe not too seriously. Here's what he said this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: I want to see his grades. My grades ended up on the front page of the newspaper. So let's -- you know, if we're going to show stuff, let's show stuff. But look, that's all a distraction, I mean, I get it. I'm really not worried about the president's birth certificate. It's fun to poke at him a little bit and say, hey, how about let's see your grades and your birth certificate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Of course, this is all about people who believe that President Obama wasn't born in the United States. Donald Trump made it a big deal when he was flirting with a presidential run, basically forcing the president to show his birth certificate.

Let me bring in our Wolf Blitzer now, anchor of "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Wolf, you heard is right there, I mean, is this just a distraction as Rick Perry is saying now?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": No, I mean, Rick Perry had a chance to end this whole discussion over whether or not he really believes the president of the United States was born in Hawaii, as his long form birth certificate clearly shows, and move on to other substantive, important issues. But he decided that, for whatever reason, to prolong this whole discussion, we're talking about it right now because he didn't put an end to it.

He could have simply said, you know what, I've seen the long form birth certificate, it's on the Web sites, it's over with, let's move on to some real substantive issues. Especially on a day like today when he did release his new tax and spending proposals, including a proposal for a flat tax and all of that.

He could have easily ended this whole discussion. But for whatever reason, he wanted to continue to poke some fun I guess at the president. So that's why we're discussing it right now.

And I suspect it's going to come back to haunt him. Not even from Democrats, but from a lot of Republicans. Karl Rove yesterday was ridiculing Rick Perry for this and I'm sure others will as well.

So next time he's asked, he's just going to say, let's move on and get over it because this is not an issue that is going to consume the electorate out there.

KAYE: Yes, and it's really interesting that he's bringing it up on such a big day. Let me share with our viewers, Wolf, one of our CNN/ORC polls, from April 29th. The question was, was Barack Obama born in the U.S.? And 80 percent say definitely or probably yes, and there you say 17 percent say definitely or probably no.

And then when you look at how it breaks down by party, Republicans saying 69 percent that Barack Obama was born in the U.S., independents 80 percent, Democrats 89 percent.

But this polling was done, Wolf, after the official birth certificate was released. So this just doesn't seem like a good move.

BLITZER: Yes, but there's still -- you saw 17 percent who are unsure that the president was born in the United States. Politically I don't think it's a smart move on his part unless he's doing it really tongue-in-cheek in all of that and just trying to have some fun. But it doesn't come across that way.

If that's his intent, he has got to clarify it. He has got to say, look, I believe he was born in Hawaii, I believe the birth certificate is authentic, let's move on and talk about some other issues.

To let this thing linger out there is not going to help him, I suspect, in a Republican contest. And if he were to get the Republican nomination, it certainly wouldn't help him in a general election, at least at this point. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

Did you see Randi, that new CBS/New York Times poll? Because if you did, among Republicans, it shows Rick Perry right now a distant fifth, fifth. Herman Cain is atop that poll. So he has got a lot of work to do.

He's starting right now with this new tax plan, this flat tax proposal. He still has millions of dollars. He still has time. He can come back but he has got a lot of work to do and certainly playing around with the whole birth certificate, the whole birther issue is not going to help him. KAYE: Yes, I mean, he certainly is now surrounding himself with some strong advisers, so it seems he should try and get back on track. But we'll see what happens, though.

Wolf Blitzer, thank you very much. Nice to see you.

BLITZER: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: Rick Perry's flat tax. Was his announcement today enough to re-energize his campaign and his supporters? It is fair game and it is next.

But first, our "Political Junkie" question, which president was in office when the first federal income tax took effect? The answer is just ahead.

KAYE: Before the break, I asked which president was in office when the first federal income tax took effect? The answer is Abraham Lincoln. The first tax was approved as part of the Revenue Act of 1861 to help pay for the Civil War. It was revised several times before finally being repealed 11 years later.

Time now to go beyond partisan talking points to the heart of the political debate where all sides are fair game. Today we are tackling the flat tax, or more specifically, the economic plan Rick Perry rolled out today.

We talked about the specifics earlier in the show. You know the flat tax actually became federal law in 1894. It was ruled unconstitutional just one year later. At the time the rate was 2 percent. But for Rick Perry, today's announcement wasn't just about numbers, it was about but character and vision and trying to re- energize potential voters. Joining me now are CNN contributors Maria Cardona and Will Cain.

Great to have you on. Will, let me start with you on this one. Do you think that this will come as a much needed boost for Rick Perry?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it will be a boost. A lot of people were saying he needs to hit a home run on this. What I would say is he hit it into the outfield.

You know, back to your trivia question real quick, Randi. You know, 1913 is the first time the permanent income tax was put into place when Woodrow Wilson was president. And the rest is history leading today to this monstrosity that is the U.S. tax code, where we've got exemptions for buying a green car, deductions for making your house energy efficient. We've got a tax code riddled with holes.

And you know who knows how to negotiate that? Lawyers and accountants and the people that can afford lawyers and accountants. Rick Perry's plan today helps revise that, helps simplify the tax code. That's something we need to concentrate on.

KAYE: Maria, is it a winner for Perry, do you think? MARIA CARDONA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think it all depends on how it continues to be sliced and diced. And, look, the fact of the matter is, is that most economists and analysts have said that a flat tax actually moves the tax burden from wealthy individuals to middle class and working class people.

And that's exactly supposedly what Perry doesn't want to do. But if you look at it, that's exactly what it does. He talks about 20 percent being optional. Well, of course, if you're wealthy and you pay at a higher level, you're going to choose the 20 percent. Most middle income and low income families either don't pay anything or pay less than 20 percent.

So, again, you're doing nothing for middle income families. And in fact, he also talks about simplifying the tax code, which is also code for taking away deductions that actually help workers and middle class families.

So, again, a boon for the wealthy and does nothing or it can hurt middle class and working class Americans.

KAYE: Will, what's the tea party going to take away from this?

CAIN: Well, I think the one thing I can agree with Maria on and what she just said is that the numbers need to be spliced and diced on this plan. But what the tea party I think is going to think is what we all think, which is the tax code needs reforming.

And I've been very, very critical of the Republican field for president. But one thing they should all get credit for is they have bold ideas, from 999 to the flat tax to Jon Huntsman's plan, which does away with all the deductions and exemptions and drops all the rates, these are bold ideas to reform the plan.

The difference between us, all of those exemptions, all of those deductions that Maria talks about, that's another form of government social engineering. It's the government telling you what they want you to do, your behavior. A simplified tax code would not only be a benefit to the economy, it would be a more moral document.

CARDONA: But speaking of morality, what you want to do is actually make it fair. And none of these plans that the GOP talks about are fair. In fact, they are completely unfair to those who are actually working to get a paycheck.

What this flat tax does, and frankly every other GOP plan, is that it gives all of this boon to wealthy individuals and in fact shifts the tax burden to middle income and workers.

And let's think about this for a moment. Personal income tax rates are actually the lowest that they've been since World War II, and are actually lower now than they were under Reagan or Clinton.

And let's look at what Clinton did. Clinton actually asked the wealthiest and big corporations to pay their fair share while giving middle income Americans and working families a tax break. And look what happened, the greatest economic expansion that we've had in our generation. Let's do that again. We hope the GOP joins us.

KAYE: But Perry had to get on the board with a plan. I mean, Will, is this going to be enough to maybe --

CARDONA: That's true.

KAYE: -- move the old 999 plan off the table? I mean, will voters take notice here?

CAIN: No, I don't think it will move 999 off the table, but it's at least now a valuable part of the conversation. You know, and from a strictly political perspective is what you're asking, Randi, is how does this play? Well, I would say this, I think this is a winning issue for Republicans.

If Maria wants to defend the tax status quo and defend the mortgage interest rate deduction, the child tax credit deduction, deductions for green energy and energy efficient cars, that's not a proposal I think she can win on.

I think simplifying the tax code, reforming the tax code, which all of these Republican candidates are talking about doing, I think that's a winning political message.

CARDONA: Well, I'll say this, Democrats are also talking about simplifying the tax code, but we do it in a way that is fair and doesn't ask middle income and working families to pay more than what corporations, hedge fund managers, and the wealthiest 1 percent do, whose incomes have actually risen in the last 50 years while middle income families have seen their real incomes decline.

That's not fairness and it's not moral.

CAIN: Real quickly --

KAYE: Great conversation --

CAIN: -- these is a non-partisan issue.

KAYE: -- both of you.

CAIN: This is a non-partisan issue. Simpson-Bowles had a similar proposal.

CARDONA: It should be.

KAYE: Will Cain, Maria Cardona, thank you both very much. That is "Fair Game" today.

CARDONA: Thanks, Randi, thank you.

KAYE: Well, they are kicked out of their homes, forced to choose between rent or groceries, out of work or underpaid. Michael Moore joins "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" to discuss the financial crisis. They talk to real people and Piers joins us live with a sneak peek of tonight's town hall, next.

But first, is the dollar bill knocking on death's door? Maybe. As Congress scrambles to pinch pennies, one idea is to scrap the dollar bill. Why? Well, apparently switching to a $1 coin could save the government $5.6 billion over the next 30 years. If you're wondering how, it's because coins last longer than bills. So as much as we hate to say it, adios dollar bill, looks like your 15 minutes could soon be up.

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KAYE: Now, the assignment, the Occupy Wall Street movement is focusing new attention on America's economic problems. Our Piers Morgan hosts a special town hall event tonight featuring the always outspoken film-maker Michael Moore. They'll answer questions from a live audience of "99 percenters," people have to make tough choices as they struggle to make ends meet. Piers joins us live now from New York with a bit of a preview.

Piers, pleasure to have you on the show. I know that you're doing this town hall from your studio. I mean, what do you expect to hear from these 99 percenters?

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": Well, I think the big question that a lot of people have been asking is, what do the protesters really stand for? What is it they are protesting about?

And what I wanted to do -- I had Michael Moore on for an interview a few weeks ago, and we were discussing this. And he said, why don't we open it up, let's get them in? And I thought, what a great idea. So we have got about 50 protesters coming in.

They've all got very different stories and I want to get to the heart and soul of what Occupy Wall Street is really about. You know, what is their grievance? What kind of stories do they have? Put a human face to what they've been going through that is making them protest.

KAYE: And I know Michael Moore, he certainly has somewhat of a personal interest in this whole Occupy Wall Street movement, isn't that right?

MORGAN: He's very fired up about it. And he believes it has been a long time coming and that it will get bigger and bigger. Because he believes the wider issue here is America beginning to rebel from the grassroots up towards what they see as the capitalist greed that has brought America to its economic and financial knees.

There's a lot of merit to the argument. I mean, the way that Wall Street has behaved, in my opinion, has been pretty reprehensible. When you think of the companies that have been bailed out, the moment that they're bailed out, within a few months, rewarded themselves with huge bonuses again, I can quite understand why people who have lost their homes or their jobs or their livelihoods, who are struggling to feed their children, I can understand why they would feel so aggrieved. And nobody on Wall Street has ever been held to account for the part that some of them played in the financial crisis, the worst we have ever seen. So I get why they are protesting. What appears to be happening is, the protest is unraveling in the sense of what it's really about.

And we need to get to the bottom of what it is that's really driving them. And I hope that tonight will be lively, it will be spirited. We know that Michael Moore will fire things up, and the protesters are going to be very emotional. And it's going to be, I think, a cracking hour of television.

But more importantly, I think it's going to be a fascinating insight into what Occupy Wall Street, at its heart, is really about.

KAYE: And when you look at this movement as a whole, it has certainly grown, it has gone global. Where do you think it's heading?

MORGAN: Well, all around the world people are feeling the pinch from the financial crisis. And as with all of these things, it takes time to get down into the mass populace. And people are really hurting out there, whether it's in London, where I've been recently, or it's in Greece or it's in -- even in China, you know, they're having problems there too.

But America has some serious problems. You have got 10 percent unemployment, it's not falling. You've got a lot of people who are suffering very, very badly. And they have seen in their eyes a lack of accountability from those at the top of the financial institutions and the government who they believe have caused this mess.

As with all of these things, it is people in very large ivory towers making decisions that right now are affecting the ordinary man and woman in the American streets. And that's why you're seeing the protests. I think it will get bigger. Because I don't see any sign of the economic crisis easing at all.

If anything, it's getting worse and I think you're going to see wider and wider spread protests.

KAYE: How did you pick which protesters get to be part of the town hall and which don't?

MORGAN: We encouraged people through social networking, Twitter and Facebook, to apply. I was tweeting about it myself. And in fact we're going to be taking live tweets through the hour.

So it's not just about the protesters. If people want to put a question to Michael Moore, maybe they're a banker who feels aggrieved at the way that bankers are being portrayed in all of this. Maybe you work on Wall Street and you're fed up with these protesters and believe that they are unfair. Maybe you work in government. Maybe you are working in one of the financial institutions around the world that people are blaming for what has happened.

If you want to have your say or you're not a protester or somebody who is just sick and tired of what has happened to you and your life, then tweet during the show. And I will put it these Michael Moore. Michael can -- you know, he's a big lad. He can take it on the chin. He is prepared to have an argument with anybody about this. He feels strongly. And I think we're in for a very lively hour.

KAYE: I bet you are. You're going to wear your black and white stripes to play referee tonight, Piers. It's going to be an interesting one, I'm sure.

MORGAN: I think I will.

KAYE: Sounds really great. All right. Sounds great. I'm glad that the viewers will be able to be involved as well. Thank you so much, looking forward to watching it tonight.

And if you're struggling to make ends meet, lost your job, your home, or you're part of the 99 percent, well, you should certainly tune in to "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT." Once again, Michael Moore will join Piers for a live town hall discussion of America's financial crisis, that's 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only right here on CNN.

Well, every day on the show we call out someone who we think quite frankly deserves it. To Florida we go, where Benjamin Taylor has been proudly showing off his military uniform and sharing stories of his time on the battlefield in the Middle East. Oh, and don't forget, stories of shootouts on his police beat near Orlando, Florida. Sounds pretty impressive, right? A real stand-up guy.

The problem is, this guy is no U.S. Army veteran, nor is he the second generation sheriff's deputy that he has been claiming to be. The Orlando Sentinel reports he even convinced his girlfriend. The guy had a gun, and a badge, and a uniform.

Now he did serve briefly in the Navy, but never earned decorations found in his home, which include a Purple Heart and Bronze Star certificate. Both were fakes that Taylor reportedly admits making himself.

Taylor is charged with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, because back in 2005 he was convicted of forging Navy documents and impersonating a paramedic. Oh yes, this guy, a real charmer.

So for all of your battlefield baloney, it's time for you, Benjamin Taylor, to face the music.

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KAYE: Let's take a closer look at stories making headlines across the country at street level. Today we start in Orlando, where a federal judge has blocked a controversial Florida law. The law, signed by Republican Governor Rick Scott in May, requires welfare applicants to pass drug tests before receiving benefits.

The judge issued temporary injunctions, saying the law could violate the Constitution's Fourth Amendment ban on illegal search and seizure. The American Civil Liberties Union sued the state last month on behalf of a 35-year-old Navy veteran and single father who refused the testing on the grounds that having to pay for it was unreasonable.

Next, Amarillo, Texas, where the nation's very last B-53 nuclear bomb is being dismantled. The 10,000-pound bomb was first put into service nearly 50 years ago in 1962 at the height of the Cold War. The final components of the bomb, about the size of a mini-bus, are set to be broken down today at the nation's only nuclear weapons assembly and disassembly facility in Amarillo.

Today's dismantling is a year ahead of schedule and a milestone in President Obama's efforts to reduce the number of nuclear weapons.

To New York City now, and the arrest of eight NYPD officers. It happened today after a lengthy undercover sting. The FBI says current and retired NYPD officers were allegedly running a gun-smuggling ring. Police say the suspects trafficked at least 20 illegal handguns and 16 rifles and shotguns. The suspects are charged with weapons trafficking, counterfeiting, and the deliver and shipment of stolen goods across state lines.

And finally, to Dallas, where a manhunt is under way right now for a suspected serial rapist. Texas police believe this man, seen here in the surveillance video, has attacked at least four alumni of a black sorority. That sorority Delta Sigma Theta. The alleged victims, all black females in their mid-50s to mid-60s, offer similar descriptions of their attacker.

Police say the suspect broke into the women's homes and made it obvious he knew personal information. Ed Lavandera is in our Dallas bureau with much more on this.

Ed, these attacks took place over a span of months, and in at least three cities. So how did police put the pieces together?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it happened in three different suburbs north of Dallas. And a lot of these cases involved kind of a small sample. You know, the fact that there were four victims in their mid-50s to mid-60s, black females, that kind of narrowed the pool down as well.

And then the description from all four women, according to police, fit the same description as well. So they felt confident with what they had. Then, on top of that, they have released this surveillance video from back in April.

They are not saying where they got the video from or how it was connected to this case or if it even is in any kind of way. But they say that was enough information to kind of get them moving and get them sharing information. That's when it clicked -- they all clicked that they had perhaps the same suspect that they were looking for.

But interestingly enough, authorities here, and this is the disturbing part I think for many of the 400 members of this sorority that live in the Dallas area, is that police say that this man had been tracking his victim for some time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDRE SMITH, PLANO POLICE SPOKESMAN: He made it obvious to our victims that he knew details or information about them personally. And that's what we've gathered so far from our victims. But as we move forward, we'll try to expand on that and see how much more is it that he knows.

CAPT. GREG WILKERSON, CORINTH POLICE: Right now we don't understand how he is obtaining the information. We don't know if he, you know, by chance has a list of members or if he's just simply looking for members that may be out there supporting different paraphernalia, T- shirts from the sorority, jewelry, license plate placards, things of that nature. So we've put out requests to all of the members to at least not advertise their affiliation with that sorority right now, for their own safety.

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LAVANDERA: And, Randi, that was the other thing that came up in the course of these attacks that investigators found out, that this person, this attacker knew several things, intimate details about each one of his victims, even though these victims did not know each other and did not know who was attacking them in these situations.

So a very disturbing situation that we're following closely -- Randi.

KAYE: Yes, it certainly is disturbing, Ed. Be sure to keep us posted on any progress there by investigators. Thank you so much.

And thank you for watching today. As always, I'd love to hear what you think about the show. You can continue the conversation with me on Facebook or on Twitter @RandiKayeCNN. I'd love to hear from you.

That will do it for me. Brooke Baldwin picks it up from here in Atlanta.

Hi, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Randi. Thank you so much.