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Attorney for Herman Cain Accuser Speaks to Restaurant Lobby; 50 Arrested in Child Sex Sting; Ben Bernanke on the Economy; Coal Ash Spills into Lake Michigan

Aired November 02, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Randi. Thank you so much.

And hello to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We're going to get you caught up on everything making news this hour, including the story that Gloria Borger just broke, talking about Herman Cain this hour. Some of his accusers may come forward soon. This is according to one woman's lawyer.

This, as the Republican gets defensive today about these sexual harassment accusations being hurled against him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me say one thing, I'm here with these doctors, and that's what I'm going to talk about. So don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about. OK? Don't even bother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, Cain's exchange with reporters there gets even testier. You are going to see that video, and we're going to break down the breaking news with Gloria Borger once again here, drilling down on that in a matter of minutes. Stay tuned for that.

Also, some important business to tell you about this afternoon from our nation's capital. The Republican-led House, in a non-binding resolution, voted to reaffirm the U.S. motto of "In God We Trust." J. Randy Forbes says he pushed for the measure, citing a national identity crisis. The resolution passed 396-9.

And WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange lost his latest battle to avoid facing possible sexual assault charges in Sweden. A British court today decided Assange will be extradited to Sweden, but the whole when that will happen, not yet certain. Another hearing is set for later this month to determine whether Assange can, in fact, appeal.

And the Department of Homeland Security wants to hear from you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe you see something suspicious. Can you be sure? (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This is the just-released public service announcement. And the agency's message, quite simple: see something, say something. The idea is to get the public, people like you and me, to call authorities if you see something suspicious.

And a company goes belly up, hundreds of millions of dollars missing, and the FBI now wants to know, where the heck is it? Here's the deal.

The Wall Street firm called MF Global, it went bankrupt. We told you about this yesterday. The guy in charge, former New Jersey governor Jon Corzine. He was close to cashing in a cushy multimillion-dollar severance package, but a huge chunk of money now nowhere to be found, and it's all client cash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AGUSTINO FONTEVECCHIA, MARKETS NEWS REPORTER, FORBES: And what they do believe is that the firm, MF Global, was using some of those funds when they couldn't find their own money to use, or they were running out of their own money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is a no-no, so the feds now stepping in and investigating.

Thirty-two people facing charges right now in this massive steroid bust in Ohio. According to our affiliate there, WCPO, a UPS driver was arrested, as was a dental receptionist and a stay-at-home mom. And check out who authorities say the drugs were being sold to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have solid reason to know that high school athletes were definitely involved in these products.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: High school athletes. Some of the suspects could face up to 10 years in prison, and we could start to get some new information about a possible nationwide steroid ring as hearings are held in this investigation. Obviously, we are going to keep you posted.

A New York detective could go to prison for up to four years for planting drugs on a woman and her boyfriend in Brooklyn. The judge in Steven Arbini's (ph) case said the scope of corruption involved in this case was shocking. Arbini's (ph) case highlighted the practice of flaking. That's when police nab innocent people to increase their arrest quotas and earn a little overtime.

And here I go again. Lindsay Lohan -- let me tell you this again -- headed back to jail.

A judge said she violated her probation, she failed to comply with a community service sentence imposed on her back in May. She was sentenced to 30 days in jail.

The sheriff's office says she will serve 20 percent of that sentence. Folks, that's six days. She will also have to finish out her probation at the city morgue.

The judge also suggested that she stop tweeting about her experience at the morgue. Stop it.

Got a lot more to cover in the next two hours, including this. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: It's not al Qaeda, it's not even an international terror group. It's a homegrown militia, American-born, plotting to kill on U.S. soil. And minutes from now they face a judge.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(voice-over): "Some people gotta die." The feds say four men targeted the government and a major American city with poison, bombs and bullets.

A Republican front-runner --

CAIN: Excuse me!

BALDWIN: -- under fire.

CAIN: They ignored us. They ridiculed you. They tried to destroy you.

BALDWIN: Now word that one of Herman Cain's sexual harassment accusers wants to come forward.

BORGER: Does she believe that Mr. Cain is not telling the truth?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BALDWIN: A firefighter, a youth pastor, a teacher, a doctor, a Disney worker all accused in a massive sex sting involving children. Operation SpiderWeb exposed.

A flight attendant found dead in his hotel room. Now new surveillance video shows what happened and who he was with moments before he was killed.

And Fareed Zakaria joins me live on how restoring the American dream begins in the classroom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK. Here we go. Breaking news out of Washington on the sex harassment allegations against Herman Cain. CNN has just received this statement. This is from the National Restaurant Association, where Herman Cain used to work, was the head of this. And I'm quoting here this statement we have just gotten.

"Attorney Joel Bennett, the attorney for one of Cain's accusers, contacted the National Restaurant Association this morning." It continues, "An association representative promptly returned his call and asked Mr. Bennett to contact the association's outside counsel. Mr. Bennett indicated that he would do so tomorrow after he met with his client."

That same statement from Sue Hensley, the senior vice president of public affairs communications for the National Restaurant Association.

So, we're going to talk about that here in just a moment, we're going to fill in some of the backstory as well, so stay with me on this clearly rapidly developing story here.

So, the presidential election, keep in mind, one year away now, the Iowa Caucus is just two months from now. And if either were held today, Herman Cain apparently would have a clear advantage. Take a look at these numbers with me.

A new poll by Quinnipiac University shows Cain with a lead over his Republican rivals. You see it's 30 percent to runner-up Mitt Romney's 23 percent. That's bigger than the margin of error.

But here is the "but," and I must interject and say it's a big "but" here. That poll was taken before allegations of sexual harassment with regard to Herman Cain, before any of that surfaced. So, whether the allegations have merit or not, they could suck the oxygen right out of Cain's candidacy.

And I want you now to listen to this testy exchange this morning between Mr. Cain and some reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAIN: Well, let me say one thing. I'm here with these doctors, and that's what I'm going to talk about. So don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about. OK? Don't even bother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But are you concerned about the fact these women do want to --

CAIN: What did I say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the one who wants to come forward? Are you concerned about --

CAIN: Excuse me. Excuse me!

What part of "no" don't some people understand?

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: "What part of 'no' don't people understand?"

I think that's what I heard, Gloria Borger. Is that what you heard there in the middle of that melee?

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: Scolding some reporters there.

So, I've got a lot to ask you, so stick with me. But I want to go back to the statement that you first broke a couple of minutes ago.

Is this essentially, you know, the whole "let's have your people call my people" sort of thing?

BORGER: Well, it is, but it means that the story has legs. It's not going away.

It means that this woman's attorney has finally made contact with the National Restaurant Association and wants to talk to his client. But it's clear to me that what they would ask is to be released from her confidentiality.

BALDWIN: Confidentiality agreement.

BORGER: And they believe that Herman Cain has made that something that ought to happen, because he has talked about the case himself in response to questions. And it's clear from talking to her attorney last night, as we did on "AC 360," that they believe that Herman Cain is not telling the story she recalls. So this story is going to continue.

BALDWIN: OK. I'm just glancing down to re-read the statement.

So, this story, certainly, as you mentioned, has legs. I think we'll be hearing a lot more tomorrow.

But as you mentioned, on "AC 360" last night, quite the moment on live TV, right, when this attorney, Joel Bennett, for one of Cain's accusers, called into the show? In fact, you asked him a pretty critical question.

Let's listen to that piece.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: You've spoken with your client. Does she believe that Mr. Cain is not telling the truth?

JOEL BENNETT, HERMAN CAIN ACCUSER'S ATTORNEY: Yes.

BORGER: Can you elaborate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How so? Can you elaborate?

BENNETT: Well, first of all, it's a little difficult, because there were two women who filed complaints at this time, and it's unclear which one he is speaking about all the time. But to the extent that he has made statements that he never sexually harassed anyone, and there was no validity to these complaints, that's certainly not true with respect to my client's complaints.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So it sounds like from what he told you last night, and now what we are getting from the National Restaurant Association, this statement, it sounds like we may be finding out possibly as early as tomorrow, A, who this woman is, and B, who is telling the truth.

BORGER: Yes, I think this story is going to unfold and unspool itself, if you will, because, clearly, reading between the lines of what the attorney is saying, this woman was listening to what Herman Cain was saying, and she was saying, you know what? That's not the way it happened.

Generally, as you know, women, when these kinds of things happen, are not eager to go out in public and talk about it. And she did sign a confidentiality agreement, she did get some money. But clearly, something that Herman Cain is saying upset her, angered her, or whatever, and she contacted her attorney, who, by the way, didn't even really remember the case, and said to him, you know what? I think we have to go back on this, because I think I need to clear some things up.

So we may very well find ourselves in a he said/she said situation.

BALDWIN: And what if we do?

BORGER: Well, that's going to be very difficult. You know, once you put a human face on this, and once it's not just some vague charge out there, but it's actually a person, people are going to judge her.

That's why it's so difficult to talk about it, right? They're going to judge her credibility, they're going to judge her honesty, and they're going to put her up against Herman Cain. And then reporters will unfold her story.

And so it may result in a he said/she said situation. But don't forget this is now the front-runner in the Republican presidential race. And so, in any sense, talking about this, rather than talking about health care, as you saw in that clip you ran earlier, it's what he wanted to be talking about, about policy, about his message, about 9-9-9, talking about --

BALDWIN: People aren't talking about that stuff, Gloria Borger. Not right now.

BORGER: Right. Exactly.

So this is a real problem for him. But to give him credit, he has kept up with his schedule. He met and had dinner with a bunch of Republican senators last night. As we speak, he is on the Hill, meeting with House Republicans. So, he is trying to go on with his campaign.

BALDWIN: Yes. I read about that steak dinner last night, but I guess the "unspooling," to quote you, will most definitely continue. And we will be watching for it, making phone calls.

Gloria Borger, thanks so much for breaking the news here for us on CNN. Really appreciate it.

BORGER: Sure.

BALDWIN: Still to come here, so when you think of Lake Michigan -- you been there? -- you probably think of gorgeous, green/blue water, right? You don't think of this. Look at this picture, black coal ash. We are talking about a potential environmental disaster.

Plus, four Georgia men in their 60s, in their 70s, charged with plotting an attack on fellow Americans and government officials. They were planning to use explosives and a highly toxic biological agent to do so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This wasn't just talk. They had taken real steps toward carrying out their plans. We have to stay focused really on both domestic terrorism and international terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Also, 50 people arrested in this child sex sting. We are talking about a doctor, I'm talking about a teacher, two Disney theme park employees.

And the man many called the second most important guy in America speaking right now. There he is, Ben Bernanke. We're going to tell you what he is saying about the Fix Our Economy event, and even more urgent, what is happening in Europe.

A lot going on today. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Operation SpiderWeb -- that's what they are calling it -- captured dozens of alleged child predators in the state of Florida. Orange County sheriff's deputies are releasing some details today of the sting operation, and the suspects include a doctor, a fireman, a retired school teacher, a preacher, and at least one Disney employee.

Each is accused of using the Internet to arrange sex with a child. Undercover detectives posted these online ads focusing on -- and I'm quoting -- "fun with children" in some top-secret location, except some of the children here were actually undercover cops posing as kids.

I want to bring in the man who led this operation, Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings, on the phone with me. Sheriff, congratulations. From what I understand, this was just a week-long operation, rounded up these 50 arrests. Can you explain exactly how this thing went down?

SHERIFF JERRY DEMINGS, ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA: Well, we wanted to select a period of time that was close to Halloween. During that period of time every year, it's a holiday that is special, especially for children. And so, we worked with about 13 different law enforcement agencies here in the area to work on this effort.

Now, I will tell you this, that we didn't actually post the Web sites out there. We simply went into chat rooms and places that children, teenagers normally are, and we kind of worked it from that angle.

BALDWIN: I see. And so, ultimately, these ads were posted, cops were posing as some of these kids, and it ultimately ended up at a home that wasn't really a children's home, was it?

DEMINGS: That's correct. It was not in the children's home. However, all of the suspects in the case believed that they were traveling here to the metropolitan Orlando area to meet up with a child for the expressed purpose of having sex with that child.

BALDWIN: And Sheriff, I mean, again, may I say, we're talking firefighter, retired teacher, Disney employee. I mean, these are people who you think are going to protect our kids. Could you believe this?

DEMINGS: Well, it was a little bit unbelievable, but I have been doing this a long time now, so I never say "never." We had medical doctors, we had a fire lieutenant, a federal corrections officer, a youth pastor, and others who were arrested in this operation.

BALDWIN: Coming throughout the state of Florida. And just quickly, I guess, what's quite the wakeup call for moms and dads out there. What's your message?

DEMINGS: Well, the message we are trying to send is real simple -- that when you troll on the Internet hoping to lure a child in one of these unlawful sex acts, you might just be doing that with law enforcement. And ultimately, you are going to be found out and arrested.

We arrested a total of 50 individuals. About 17 of them came from within our county, the other 31 or 38 came from outside of the area. And that's the shame of it all, trying to prey on children, innocent children.

BALDWIN: A shame. Operation SpiderWeb.

Jerry Demings.

Sheriff, thank you so much for calling in.

DEMINGS: You're welcome. Thank you very much. BALDWIN: And it's been another roller-coaster ride on Wall Street right now. Wild swings, up and down. Right now it's in the green. The market is up 132 point there, most of it because of the -- look, the craziness, the story with regard to Greece's debt.

All of this comes as some of the world's most powerful leaders, political leaders, meeting in France for the G-20 summit. They are charting the course for the global economy.

We are going to go live to France, coming up.

Folks, we are talking about your money. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Two big breaking stories right now, stories about the economy.

We have the G-20 summit about to commence in France. The big news there, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Germany's chancellor, Angela Merkel, both taking place in this emergency meeting right now before that summit even begins. An emergency meeting on the chaos engulfing Greece.

So stand by for more on that.

But because we have -- here he is, taking questions right now -- Ben Bernanke, often described as the second most powerful man in Washington, taking questions right now. In fact, he was just asked a question about the crisis in Europe and also the Republican candidates -- I'm sorry, say that again, Angie? About Republican candidates criticizing fed policy.

Let me just go ahead and bring in Ali Velshi, who is standing by in France.

Ali, have you have been listening at all to Ben Bernanke. Translate this for us. What's he saying?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all there -- Brooke, good to see you.

The outline of the statement that the Fed puts out every six weeks when they have their meeting, no particular change. Here is what they said, that basically the economy has sped up a little bit in the third quarter, and they expect moderate growth going forward, but it's not going to do much for unemployment.

They said inflation is probably moderated, as you have seen, obviously. Gas prices, having come down because oil prices have come down. But no real news.

Interest rates are very low. They're between zero and a quarter percent. These are Fed rates, which means the prime rate, which banks charge their best customers, is three percentage points higher. That hasn't changed. They're not changing interest rates. In fact, Ben Bernanke has reiterated that interest rates will stay this low probably to the middle of 2013.

So that's all stuff we probably expected to hear, and he is just reiterating this now.

BALDWIN: OK.

VELSHI: Remember, Brooke, we used to have just statements from the Fed. In fact, when I started covering the Fed, you didn't even get statements. You had to look at the bond market to see what the Fed had done.

Now they give these press conferences in an effort to be more transparent. But here is the thing.

The issue right now is not so much what the Fed is doing and U.S. policy, it's what's going on in Europe. We had what we thought was an ironclad deal worked out last week, and now we have heard that the Greek prime minister yesterday decided that he is going to take this to a referendum, which is why there is now an emergency meeting today ahead of the G-20.

It's overshadowed the G-20 entirely. This meeting between Sarkozy of France, Merkel of Germany, and Papandreou of Greece is taking place in an hour from now. And I have to tell you, I would love to be a fly on the wall for that one, because I think there are going to be curse words used in there.

BALDWIN: Merkel and Sarkozy.

VELSHI: Merkel and Sarkozy and a whole bunch of people are really mad at what the Greeks are doing now.

BALDWIN: Hang on, because I do want to talk Greece, but first, let me bring you back to Charles Evans, who sits on the Board of Governors, broke ranks today in favor of stronger action to boost the economy -- we're talking about our economy.

What do we make of that?

VELSHI: Well, look, it's a board, and they're -- it's not irregular for somebody on the Federal Reserve Board to vote against the others. Historically, there's always been one or two who take a different position, and that's good, right? You don't want everybody necessarily thinking the same way.

But here is the same problem. Think of the Fed as a car that has just brakes and just a gas pedal. That's all it has. It doesn't have a steering wheel, it can't really slow down and speed up. It can hit the brakes or can hit the gas.

The way you hit the gas is you lower interest rates. It makes money cheaper and people borrow more. When they borrow more, they spend more. That creates demand, demand creates jobs, and that's how you goose the economy.

If the economy is growing too fast, you raise interest rates -- that would be the brakes -- and you slow everything down. It makes it harder to borrow money, more expensive. People stop spending, they start saving, and the economy slows down.

Interest rates are at zero. There is no gas to apply. The Fed is a toolbox with one tool in it, and there is nothing more they can do.

So I wouldn't put too much into the dissent on the Federal Reserve Board. They don't have a lot more tools. With interest rates at zero, you've got to do something else to goose the economy.

BALDWIN: OK. Back to Greece and those curse words of which you spoke a moment ago.

But from the Greek perspective -- and the whole deal would forgive much of Greece's debt, but a lot of people in Greece seem to feel that they have had surrendered their sovereignty, that they are taking matching orders. You know, you mentioned Sarkozy and Merkel.

VELSHI: Right.

BALDWIN: So is that why the debt deal might be collapsing?

VELSHI: Right. So the rest of the world looks at the Greece and said, what are you people complaining about? They have put together this whole deal that is basically going to bail you out for decades of living beyond your means and overspending and all of this, and we're going to help you get on track.

If you're Greek, you're sitting here saying, "I don't work that many hours, I don't pay that much in taxes, I retire really early, I get lots of holidays and I get lots of government services. You're going to take all of this away it is going to slow the economy down, because that's what happens when the government stops spending in the economy and I got to do this to save the rest of Europe? Why is this my problem?"

So, the Greeks are sitting here saying this maybe a fantastic deal for Europe and the rest of the world, not so fantastic for us. But without this deal, without Greece doing what it has to do and you saw, we have watched riot notice streets of Athens for a year, it may not get done and Europe continues to be in big trouble.

So, real difference of opinion here and it is unclear if this referendum gets held, probably in December. Whether it will pass or not, whether the Greeks will say, "We want this bailout deal, let's move ahead" or whether they have got go back to the drawing board, and with our economy in the U.S., you know, very close to not solid, it is a blow that the world may not be able to afford, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. One more question, though, I just had to get this in. We were sort of fascinated by Nicolas Sarkozy, now is he hosting this summit, taking the lead on Greece, remember, he took the lead in Libya, age 56, first-time father with his gorgeous, you know, fashion model wife, Carla Bruni. How does this man do it?

VELSHI: Yes. First-time in -- ever that a baby has been born to a sitting president of France. He is definitely come onto the stage as a remarkable world leader, as a guy who has really taken the lead, taken strong positions. There have been others, if you remember, with the Dominique Strauss-Kahn scandal, there were a lot of people who thought the socialists would take the office from him and Dominique Strauss-Kahn would become president.

So, he does have his detractors and things have gone wrong. But as an economic world leader, he is definitely taking the stand -- taking a big stand on the world. Remember, that France and Germany are the two strongest economies on continental Europe. So, they are most concerned about this. And you'll see a lot of pictures of him walking alongside Angela Merkel. These two have really taken a hard line on this.

And I think tonight's meeting at 3:30, I haven't decided whether Angela Merkel is going to hold Papandreou while Sarkozy takes shots at him or the other way around -- whether Sarkozy is going to hold him and Merkel is going to take shots at him had. But the two are fuming mad. Even the diplomatic language about how furious they are sounds furious. Normally diplomatic language tones it down a little bit.

BALDWIN: Yes?

VELSHI: But Sarkozy is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

BALDWIN: To be a fly on the wall, as you say. You are looking good out there, Ali Velshi, in Cannes, France, with your out of office reply.

VELSHI: You know, tougher gigs, Brooke, being in the south of France.

BALDWIN: Wonderful talking to you, my friend. Thank you so much. We'll check in possibly tomorrow with you.

VELSHI: As always.

BALDWIN: Meantime, explosives, biotoxins and ricin, silencers for machine guns, all were going to be reportedly used by four little militia members on this attack on Americans and even some government officials. And get this -- these men were in their 60s and 70s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never think a small town would have something like this going on around it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This wasn't just talk. They took real steps toward carrying out their plans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel unsafe, you know, because if they are coming this close --

(END VIDEO CLIPS) BALDWIN: You may not believe what their motive was. Those details coming up two minutes away. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: When you think of the cradles of terrorism, what comes to mind? Maybe a dry, dusty land somewhere halfway around the world; probably not the beautiful places in America, like the mountains of north Georgia where people go as an escape, get away, to look at waterfalls and hike and, I don't know, maybe go fly fishing.

But that's exactly the place the feds say a terror plot was being hatched and the suspects who are heading to court right now sound as unlikely as the location. There are these four retired men. They are in their 60s and 70s, these men allegedly formed this fringe militia group that met in the mountains of Georgia to plan murder against individuals and entire cities.

These court papers, got them both, court papers here, detail a lot, including basically a bucket list of people they believe needed to be taken out and make the country right again, what I'm quoting. That's what the papers were saying.

So, take a look at this -- on this bucket list, government employees, politicians, corporate leaders, members of the media and according to the U.S. attorney's office, two of the men bought a purported explosives and a gun silencer, even though it sounds like one of the men preferred to shoot their intended targets himself.

Take a look at these quotes found in some of these court documents. We went through this for you. Quote, "I could shoot ATF and IRS all day long. All the judges and the DOJ, Department and Justice, and the attorneys and prosecutors." One more, "I am of the old school mafia. One behind the ear with a .22 is all you need."

But this alleged plot didn't stop with this bucket list. The government says these men were planning murder on a mass scale by spreading the deadly toxin ricin across an Atlanta freeway and dropping the substance over Washington, D.C.

Their motive? Patriotism.

Look at this again from another one of these FBI affidavits. Quote, "When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people got to die."

Mark Potok with the Southern Poverty Law Center studies militias and homegrown terrorism. He's on the phone with me from Montgomery, Alabama.

Mark, first, I just have to get your reaction, these guys, 60-year- olds, 70-year-olds, you heard their M.O. What's your take?

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER (via telephone): Well, you know, at first, you think it is another over-the-hill gang story -- you know, these old men sitting around, some of them apparently in quite bad physical shape, making these plans. But as you said in the introduction, at least according to the authorities, they had taken a number of concrete steps to go ahead and actually make these things happen.

One of the facts in the affidavit or alleged in the affidavit, is that one of the plotters decided to go ahead and shucking castor beans, preparing castor beans, which are the precursor to ricin. And ricin, I'm sure our viewers will remember, is an incredibly toxic substance.

BALDWIN: Yes.

POTOK: Something the size of an aspirin can kill something like 200 people.

BALDWIN: So, when you hear about shucking castor beans and you think of, you know, at least it makes me think, gosh, how many people could possibly be out there across this country with regard to, you know, homegrown terrorism, these groups -- how many groups out there are there, Mark? And are they on the rise?

POTOK: They are on the rise and explosively so. These men are allegedly apart of a militia group. The group is not named in the affidavits, but we're quite certain that in fact they were connected to the Georgia militia, which has some 17 units in that state.

We have seen these groups grow, as I said, explosively since 2008. By our count in that year, there were 149 of these so-called patriot groups, these anti-government groups. In 2009, that number rocketed up to 512. And then last year, in 2010, they reached 824.

So, we've just seen enormous growth of these groups, incredibly rapid and I think very largely based on a couple of things. The first being the appearance of Barack Obama on the scene -- as a person who looked like he was going to become president already in late 2008 and who, of course, was a black man. For many of these people, he really represents the changing racial demographics of the country.

Just to give some substance to what I'm saying, not simply make the allegation that race was somewhere -- somehow behind all of this, we have looked at some of these militia members and at least one was heavily involved in neo-Confederate activities, the idea that the South was right and all that kind of thing. In addition, the Georgia militia has produced some documents that are very racial in nature.

BALDWIN: So --

POTOK: And the other thing, of course, that has driven the growth of these groups, enormously fast growth, is the economy, which really began to collapse, of course, in October of 2008, with the subprime collapse that's led us to where we are now.

BALDWIN: So, with those themes, with those, I guess, motivations sort of pervasive through these different groups and I just want to read one more detail here from one of these affidavits, I'm sure I have a seen t one of these guys talking about spilling ricin over D.C. said, quote, "You take a pound of that bleep, get upwind up around Washington, D.C., get around 20,000 feet in an airplane, and turn that bleep loose, it would cover the whole of Washington."

Do you this think that this group could have pulled that off?

POTOK: I doubt that extremely much.

BALDWIN: Yes.

POTOK: The reality is that ricin is extremely difficult to handle. It also has to be aerosolized, that is has to be made so fine that it will float in the air or else it's not an efficient method of carrying out mass murder.

One of the things that they describe in the affidavit you're also quoting from is the idea, their idea, apparently, was that if you ride in a car -- around in a car on an interstate with the windows closed and the heat turned up on high and then pour this stuff out of a crack in the window, the heat coming into the car is going to supposedly create enough air pressure that the bad guys inside the car will not get any of the ricin --

BALDWIN: Right. That is what they were planning on doing.

POTOK: -- ludicrous on its face, had they done this seems almost certain two have died in the process.

BALDWIN: Right, on an Atlanta freeway.

POTOK: And the prospect of them actually obtaining ricin or at least ricin that could be spread I think was very remote, despite their having apparently obtained the castor beans.

BALDWIN: Kudos to the FBI and that informant on their way in which they go thwart this plot. Mark Potok, I appreciate you hopping on the line and talking me through this, what could have happened. Thank you.

Coming up this hour here on CNN, arrest in the death of a flight attendant in Mexico who was reportedly beaten and strangled to death with a belt. We have now more information on the motive.

Be right back.

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BALDWIN: How about this? A rarity in Mississippi politics. An African-American is the Democratic nominee for the race for governor. Johnny DuPree is trying to become the first black to hold statewide office since reconstruction, but the only color he wants to talk about, the color green.

CNN's Don Lemon has this black in America report.

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DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Few thought the "Johnny DuPree for governor" campaign would be celebrating -- except for Johnny Dupree.

JOHNNY DUPREE (D), MISSISSIPPI GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I got all the naysayers saying, "You can't do it, because --"

LEMON: Couldn't win the Mississippi primary, because he's a black man in a state stigmatized by racism -- because he didn't have nearly as much money to spend as his white, Republican opponent, Lt. Governor Phil Bryant.

DUPREE: And you can fill in the blanks.

LEMON: But primary voters made history by making Johnny DuPree the first African American ever to have a real chance of becoming the governor of Mississippi.

DUPREE: That's awesome isn't it? Isn't that awesome, that we live in a place called America, that allows things like that to happen, that have never happened before? Isn't that awesome?

LEMON: But is it realistic, in a race where not much distinguishes one candidate from the other?

They disagree mostly over how to pay for universal health care and whether voters should show ID at the polls.

And those two issues aren't enough to motivate voters, according to retired political professor Joseph Parker.

PROF. EMERITUS JOSEPH PARKER, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI: Most white voters in Mississippi vote for the white candidate, and most black voters vote for the black candidate.

LEMON: Parker says to win as governor; Johnny DuPree would have to get all of the black votes and at least a third of the white.

He did it in 2001, when he became the first black mayor of Hattiesburg. But can he do it statewide?

PARKER: If he does, it'll be like Moses rolling back the Red Sea.

DUPREE: I'm here to talk to you about color: green.

LEMON: The only color DuPree wants to address is money -- something his state, the nation's poorest, desperately needs. Something his opponent has a lot of, outspending DuPree seven to one.

But, Dupree is confident

DUPREE: I have 100 percent chance of not winning if I wasn't in the race, but I've got a 50 percent chance of winning because I'm in the race.

LEMON: DuPree has proven the polls, the pundits, and the naysayers wrong before. But with this much at stake, can he do it again?

Don Lemon, CNN, Hattiesburg, Mississippi. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Don, thank you.

CNN's Soledad O'Brien brings you a "Black in America" special on racial diversity in another place, Silicon Valley. Check out the "The New Promised Land: Silicon Valley," airing Sunday night, November 13th, 8:00 Eastern. You don't want to miss this.

Coming up, black coal ash accidentally spills into Lake Michigan. We are talking about a mass murky sludge the size of a football field.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were able to sit back and say nobody was injured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The next step here, obviously that's trying to clean up what some are now calling an environmental disaster. Details two minutes away.

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BALDWIN: There is a story developing right now in Wisconsin that bears all of our attention. I want you to look closely at some of these images we pulled.

So, before Monday, that ravine you see there, that was bluff. But it gave way two days ago, sending this section of muck the size of a football field into Lake Michigan. Here's the other important part, as you see some of these pictures, you see that white building, that's a power plant fuelled by coal, the stuff now sliding into the lake includes coal ash.

Remember Tennessee -- it was 2009, a mountain of coal ash outgrew gravity's ability to hold it back. The muck spilled in the rivers, lakes, farmland, homes totally destroyed. People were told coal ash was perfectly safe, and then it began as dribble, ended up being enough to bury 3,000 acres under 12 inches of grayish, black coal ash.

So, back to the issue at hand right now, Lake Michigan, with the people there want to know obviously is how much coal ash is piled up behind this plant, how long has Wisconsin Energy been storing it there? And now that it has clearly started to spill, is there any way of stopping it?

Kristen Zambo has been covering the story for a Milwaukee, Wisconsin, "Journal Times" newspaper. She joins me on the phone from Racine.

And you know what? Question number one, what are they doing to try to keep this stuff contained? Kristen?

Kristen Zambo, do you hear me?

Did we lose her, guys?

We lost her. We are going to work on getting her back. Yes, we will try a little bit later, thank you very much, Christina.

Meantime, ever get annoyed with having to stand in lines at the airport? Take a look at this -- TSA finding four to five guns in carry-on luggage each and every day. And what about all the cargo on international flights, bound for the United States? There is a huge problem there. Details on that story.

And more on Lake Michigan a little later, after this.

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BALDWIN: Back to the mess unfolding in Lake Michigan, as promised, we hopefully have Kristen Zambo back on the line. She's been covering the story for the Milwaukee, Wisconsin "Journal Times" newspaper. She is on the phone.

Kristen, I just want to make sure. Can you hear me?

KRISTEN ZAMBO, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL TIMES (via telephone): I can.

BALDWIN: Excellent. So, let's just begin with what are they doing to keep this spill, this coal ash contained?

ZAMBO: Well, as of right now, they have got two booms very similar to what was used during the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. They have got those out in Lake Michigan right now. The first one is about 200 to 300 feet off the shore. The second one was placed about 100 feet further out that to try to keep the oil contained on the surface.

BALDWIN: OK. So as they work with those booms, what -- let's just back up, why did -- why did this breach happen in the first place? What's Wisconsin Energy telling you?

ZAMBO: Well, they don't know yet. They are still investigating, along with Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources and OSHA. They don't have any kind of idea what prompted this. They're not quite sure if any answer will be obtained quickly. It's looking like it's going to be a much longer process to figure that out.

BALDWIN: OK, there has been this sort of ongoing argument over who should be overseeing this. Two weeks ago, House Republicans actually passed legislation to give states the power to determine themselves, how to regulate coal ash. The Senate didn't pick it up.

The White House issued a statement opposing such a measure. And I just want to read just part of the statement from the administration: "The 2008 failure of a coal ash impoundment in Kingston, Tennessee, is a stark reminder of the need for safe disposal and management of coal ash to protect public health and the environment. The administration has assessed structural stability at active coal ash impoundments and has identified 49 units in 12 different states as having what they're calling "high hazard potential" rating should they fail." So I've got to ask, and I know this story is just sort of still developing, you may not have an answer. But do we know if this site there along Lake Michigan is among those 49 units? Has the Fed looked at this site?

ZAMBO: We don't know yet if the feds have looked at the site for this.

What we do know right now is back in the '50s to '60s, that area was a kind of unofficial landfill. There was a deep ravine, and they put this coal ash, fly ash, which is kind of super fine particles, that was the old-time smoke stacks, as well as some foundry slag, which kind of looks like a molten rock. And they used that as landfill material.

And back in the '50s and '60s, when there weren't the regulations and restrictions that we have today, that was totally fine. You could do that and use that as a landfill material.

BALDWIN: Yes. But now?

ZAMBO: That's the portion that slid again, or a portion of that is what --

BALDWIN: Into Lake Michigan.

ZAMBO: -- in landfill right now.

BALDWIN: Yes. I covered the mess in Kingston, Tennessee, a couple years ago, and it was exactly that, a mess. So, we're going to stay on this. We're going to keep talking to you, Kristen Zambo, and see what -- how they can mitigate potential damage. Thank you so much.