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Cain Under Fire; Fixing America's Education; Four Men in 60s and 70s Arrested on Terror Charges; Bank of America Rescinding Planned Debit Card Fees; Car Dealer Successfully Sued for Calling Competitor "Taliban Toyota"; Condoleezza Rice Reveals Moammar Gadhafi's Fixation with Her
Aired November 02, 2011 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And now, to Washington we go. Jim Acosta joining me now with an America's Choice 2012 politics update.
And, Jim Acosta, let's talk Herman Cain.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let's talk Herman Cain, Brooke, this was a -- if you haven't seen this on CNN today, you haven't been watching your CNN, because we have been playing this for you throughout the day since this happened earlier this morning.
It was a nasty scene over at a hotel in northern Virginia, Brooke, where Herman Cain refused to answer questions about these allegations of sexual harassment that go back to the late 1990s but have recently cropped up. And we tried to get Mr. Cain to answer some questions for us. I don't know if we can play a bit of that sound here, but the sound is pretty startling.
BALDWIN: We got it. We got it, Jim.
ACOSTA: He does seem to lose his cool here. Let's play it, just a few moments.
BALDWIN: Let's roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let say one thing. I'm here with these doctors and that's what I'm going to talk about. So, don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about, OK? Don't even bother.
QUESTION: But are you concerned about the fact that these women do want to--
(CROSSTALK)
CAIN: What I did say?
QUESTION: Are you concerned about--
(CROSSTALK) CAIN: Excuse me. Excuse me.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And there you go.
ACOSTA: Yes, obviously, Brooke, a different posture from Herman Cain.
He's been known throughout this campaign as somebody who is sort of laid back and has an easygoing style out on the campaign trail. That was very different today. He had security guards pushing who were reporters out of the way, he was refusing to answer questions about all of this. The main question that was being asked of him, Brooke, just to put it very quickly, is whether or not he would call on the National Restaurant Association to release from these nondisclosure agreements, these confidentiality agreements that these two accusers allegedly signed back in the late 1990s to keep their stories quiet in exchange for payment settlements.
And so that is the big question at this point for the Cain campaign, and it's one they have not answered yet and it's one that we're still waiting to see if it develops.
BALDWIN: It sounds to me like it most definitely could and it sounds like the National Restaurant Association and also the attorney of one of these accusers are in contacts. We will hear more certainly tomorrow.
ACOSTA: They are.
BALDWIN: Jim Acosta, thank you so much for the news out of Washington.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Let's roll into the second hour. Take a look at this.
All right, welcome back, hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Here we go.
Markets apparently like what Ben Bernanke had to say just a couple minutes ago.
Also, new flare-ups involving Occupy Wall Street, a disturbing new revelation about guns in airport luggage. A Russian arms dealer learns his fate today. And an American flight attendant found dead in Mexico.
Time to play "Reporter Roulette" times five on this Wednesday.
(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)
BALDWIN: Next on "Reporter Roulette," let's go to Oakland, California, where we find Dan Simon covering the Occupy Wall Street movement there. Clearly, Dan, reenergized. The last week, we saw the images, police very aggressive against some of the demonstrators. Today the aim is shutting down the city, is that right?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
Let me first of all set the scene for you. We are here at Oakland City Hall, and you can see that they have a very large crowd here. It's been very peaceful far, and it taken on a bit of a party atmosphere, these and tent that you're seeing right here, these were swept away about a week ago, but now they have reappeared.
The city has reversed itself and says that these protesters can stay. One thing that's pretty interesting is they have told people if you are a parent, you can still come down here and you can bring your children. You can see there is a bit of a play area set up for parents to spend time with their children.
But come back to become me for a second because the message of what this day is really encapsulated with this sign. It says: "Foreclose the 1 percent. Occupy the banks. We are the 99 percent from East Oakland to the port, from Cairo to the bay, we demand an end to racist profiteering off foreclosures, immigrant detention and dirty energy that fuels wars. We demand that banks be put in their place."
That is the message that they are going after today. They want picketers to go in front of the banks here in downtown Oakland and they also wanted people to take the day off of work and it look like many have done so -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Targeting the banks and bringing the kids along.
Dan Simon in Oakland, Dan, thank you.
Next on "Reporter Roulette," let's go to Athena Jones in Washington, where lawmakers are grilling the TSA about dangerous weapons found in passenger luggage.
Athena, the TSA is finding four to five guns in carry-on bags every day. What is going on?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. It's pretty remarkable. Let's listen to what the TSA administrator, John Pistole, had to say this morning at an aviation security hearing. This was the hearing before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN PISTOLE, ADMINISTRATOR, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION: Anecdotally, we still find four to five guns in airport security checkpoints every day. Yesterday, we found six, including one at Chairman Lieberman's airport in Bradley, a loaded gun with seven rounds in it in a checked bag that was trying to get through.
(END VIDEO CLIP) JONES: So this is really stunning. I spoke with the TSA just a while ago to get an update and they say that they prevented some 900 firearms from getting on board planes this year alone so far nationwide.
And it is really remarkable some of these cases that you read about, Brooke. In Dallas-Fort Worth Airport just last month, there was a guy who tried to get on a plane with two pistols, three ammo magazines, eight knives and a hand saw in his carry-on. It's pretty remarkable stuff.
BALDWIN: I'm listening to you, Athena, and I'm just shaking my head, because I'm thinking of having to walk through the metal detectors and taking offing my shoes what are they thinking? Anyhoo, thank you very much, Athena Jones, in Washington.
Next on "Reporter Roulette" Richard Roth in New York, where an alleged Russian arms dealer accused of trying to kill U.S. nationals learns his fate.
Richard, what is the latest?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Viktor Bout, Russian national, long suspected of being the so-called Merchant of Death and selling arms to people who would foment war around the world, well, now it's the guilty Viktor Bout.
A New York federal jury convicted Bout on four counts, all four he faced, he does now face life imprisonment on some of these counts. Bout's lawyer, Albert Dayan, telling reporters afterwards that he will appeal, that Bout is disappointed and that he feels based on the evidence, there wasn't enough for a jury to convict Bout.
The prosecution said Bout was ready, willing and able to sell these weapons. He was convicted on charges of conspiring to kill Americans because he was arrested in a Bangkok hotel room after trying to sell undercover U.S. DEA agents posing as guerrillas from the FARC group in Colombia. The government said he was ready and willing to do that.
The defense says he was just trying to sell two airplanes and the jury really misunderstood, in effect what his intent was. That is the latest on Viktor Bout, the so-called lord of war played in a movie allegedly by Nicolas Cage, a movie inspired by Bout in 2005 -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Viktor Bout. All right, Richard Roth, thank you so much.
Finally, at the top of this hour, an arrest in the killing of a U.S. Airways flight attendant in Mexico. Police have now picked up 20- year-old Jose Manuel Ramirez Perez in Mexico City and he's an ex-con known as the Shadow. Ramirez was at a bar across the street from the Hilton Hotel where the body of Nicholas Aaronson was found.
Prosecutor says this surveillance video led to his arrest. This footage shows Ramirez entering the hotel with Aaronson. His fingerprints also were found inside Aaronson's hotel room. The 27- year-old flight attendant was robbed, beaten and strangled. His mother says they are bringing his body home.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are devastated, totally, all of us. My oldest son, Jason, is on a plane flying down to Mexico City to bring Nick home.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BALDWIN: OK, Nick Valencia, let me bring you into this, our national desk editor.
First, take me back, remind me, when did this happen and what exactly happened?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN PRODUCER: Well, Brooke, this all unraveled some time on Friday night as you have seen from that surveillance video from the Mexican police -- 27-year-old flight attendant Nick Aaronson meeting up with the suspect.
They go from across the street from this bar, and this a very nice, affluent area of Mexico City, lots of bars, hotels, apartment complexes, they cross to the crew hotel, this Hilton, where this alleged incident happened.
Now, it is very interesting. This suspect has a very different story. He was presented in front of the media on Monday.
BALDWIN: What did he say?
VALENCIA: He told prosecutors and actually told the media that it was a revenge attack, that he killed Nick Aaronson -- well, he didn't kill, actually. He denied the killing. He said attacked he Nick Aaronson because he, Aaronson, had slept with one of his friend, had raped one of his friends and passed on a disease.
He also maintains his innocence in saying it was actually a 15-year- old from Phoenix, Arizona, that is responsible and culpable for this crime.
BALDWIN: Why is he known as the Shadow?
VALENCIA: That's something we spoke to the Mexican attorney general's office earlier today. They didn't divulge that information but what they did say is that rape accusation from the suspect is now part of their investigation.
The thing about Mexico, and this is an official statistic, Brooke, 90 percent of the crimes in Mexico goes unsolved, there's no sentencing. What happens next for Ramirez Perez is most likely he will face a judge in about a year and stay in jail until then.
BALDWIN: Wow. Nick Valencia, thank you.
VALENCIA: Thank you.
And that is your "Reporter Roulette" for us today.
Still to come, America falling behind, big time, when it comes to teaching our own children. But there are two countries where education is working. Coming up next, he's one of my favorite interviews, favorite guests on the show, one of the smartest guys I get to talk to on TV, this man, Fareed Zakaria, good enough to stand by live, and he's about to tell us how bad it is and how far we are from restoring the American dream.
Plus I'm going to ask him, a little heads up for you, Fareed, which teacher inspired you the most? Think on that and we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We, on this show, always welcome the chance to welcome Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" and this week, he's all about education. He's got enough special coming up.
And, Fareed, I went to your Web page today, as I always do when you come on just to see what you are talking about and what you are blogging about. Here is what we learned.
As a nation, we, the United States, now rank number 15 in reading education. We are 23rd when it comes to math. As far as science goes, we are even worse at 31st. So, Fareed Zakaria, why are we so far behind?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: It is actually very simple, Brooke. We slacked off.
About a generation ago, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, we had the highest graduation rates in the world, we did very well on all these tests, our public education system was the envy of the world. Steve Jobs is a kid of a working-class family who ended up getting a great public school education, enough so that he was fluent in technology, you know, well-versed in the liberal arts.
What happened? The whole system began to atrophy, stagnate and -- and here's the crucial part -- the rest of the world wasn't sitting still. They started moving ahead, and they started focusing on math and science and while we were having degrees, proliferate in leisure studies and sports exercise, the rest of the world, particularly the rich countries, started focusing on math and science. That's why we are where we are.
BALDWIN: So apparently we have some slackers in our midst if I'm hearing you correctly. but who is not slacking two nations you point out, you have Finland and you have South Korea found two very different ways of educating students, both successful. Walk me through what they are doing right.
ZAKARIA: It's fascinating, Brooke.
The South Koreans basically are really the anti-slackers. The South Koreans have had to now put in place laws to stop students from studying so hard. This is a huge problem. They have night vans. Policemen go in night vans to shut down late-night cram stool schools that teach students until midnight and 1:00.
The average South Korean kid goes to school two years longer than an American kid by the time he is 18 because they have 30 more days every school year, their school day is longer. You can imagine, if they are spending two years more in school, it is no wonder they are doing better at tests.
Finland is completely the opposite. They don't have a lot of tests, it's very creative but they have incredibly good teachers. They recruit from the top 10 percent of college classes, they pay their teachers like doctors and lawyers, they respect them like that.
And so here are two different model, and I say we kind of to need to do a little bit of both.
BALDWIN: Two different models, does it come down though to teachers, Fareed?
ZAKARIA: It really does.
Bill Gates has now spent $5 billion trying to reform education. And I said to him if you had a magic wand and you were running a school what is the one thing you would do? He said hire great teachers. More than classroom size, more than money spent, more than technology, the single thing that seems to have an impact on students is having a great teacher.
BALDWIN: So, Fareed Zakaria, you had two minute to think on it. Let's talk about your education, and people want to know. You have to have had a teacher that so inspired you. Who was he or she and why?
ZAKARIA: I had a great English teacher in eighth and ninth grade, Mrs. Isaacs (ph).
She -- I think English is one of those subjects that can be magical or it can be really dreary and boring, depending on how it's taught. And she was able to unlock the magic of Shakespeare, of poetry and make you understand why this was fascinating and interesting, make you want to write better.
You know, it is very hard to explain what it is she did. I think it's just inspiration at some level and a lot of personal attention. But Gates says this to me in the special, he say you know it when you see it, it is very difficult to explain all the different things that they do. They keep the student engaged, they are interactive.
But most of it, I think, is making it seem fun. That's the thing that American education at its best really does is make learning fun, rather than seem like a chore, like it's something you have to do just because you have to take this big test.
BALDWIN: My favorite was an English teacher as well, 11th grade, Mr. Hyde (ph). "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" and T.S. Eliot was never more magical.
So you just remember those things.
ZAKARIA: Oh, that's fantastic.
BALDWIN: Right? Fareed Zakaria--
ZAKARIA: We have something in common.
BALDWIN: I know. We do. Thank you. And we are also on CNN. So that's two things, I guess.
Fareed, thank you so much. We will talk again tomorrow for another conversation.
Don't forget to catch Fareed's special Sunday night, 8:00 Eastern, "Restoring the American Dream: Fixing Education." Do not miss this.
Still ahead, somebody's got to die, that is what a militia member allegedly said about targeting a big city with poison and bombs. And this wasn't al Qaeda. This was homegrown terror.
Plus, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: Don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about, OK? Don't even bother.
(CROSSTALK)
CAIN: Excuse me. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Herman Cain getting a little testy with reporters today, defending himself against sexual harassment accusations. As he does, his poll numbers keep rising.
Also, big business vs. the people. Business blinked first after outrage over fees and prices. This affects your wallet.
Plus, another young soldier behind bars suspected of espionage and spilling secrets. We will tell you why this story is different than the WikiLeaks case involving Bradley Manning.
A lot coming up. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back.
(NEWS BREAK)
BALDWIN: Coming up next: a soldier slapped in cuffs, accused of spying. The story is developing right now. Details coming up. Also, Herman Cain under fire and fired up. Just a short time after a speech, this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: Don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about, OK? Don't even bother.
(CROSSTALK)
CAIN: Excuse me. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The Republican avoiding reporters as they are trying to ask about the sexual harassment allegations against him. It comes as we get word today one of his accusers may soon come forward.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Now to a story developing right this minute, an American soldier behind bars suspected of espionage.
I want to bring in Barbara Starr live for us at the Pentagon.
And, Barbara, just bring us up to speed. Who is this guy?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, details still emerging about this young Kentucky soldier serving in a military police battalion.
He is in custody today on suspicion of espionage, according to the Army -- his name, Specialist William Colton Millay, 22 of Owensboro, Kentucky. You see him there, arrested Friday at his base in Alaska.
His military police unit, by the way, called the Arctic Enforcers, they went to Afghanistan this week. But he, according to the Army, did not deploy. Now, according to the military, Millay has been under investigation by the FBI and Army counterintelligence agents.
They won't say exactly what the espionage allegations involve, but, look, as you pointed out, this kind of activity is in the spotlight after that very high-profile case involving Private 1st Class Bradley Manning, who is suspected of leaking classified information to the Web site WikiLeaks.
All the Army will tell us so far, this is not related to WikiLeaks and in this case they believe there was no transfer of information on computer networks. But what he was doing, who he thought he might have been committing espionage on behalf of and what the allegations exactly are still remains to be made public -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: So, what I'm hearing is that he is in custody. He's not necessarily charged as of yet, but perhaps this is a bigger message from the U.S. military, look, no tolerance for this kind of thing.
STARR: Yes, I mean, there is no tolerance for it.
And you are correct. At this point, we don't believe he has been charged, no documents released by any court or military justice proceeding that we know of. And that's what we will be looking at. Is he going to be -- if the FBI is involved, will he be charged in federal court or will the military take on this case and simply process it through the military justice system? All things we will learn in the days ahead.
BALDWIN: All right, Barbara, thank you so much.
STARR: Sure.
BALDWIN: Still ahead here, a car dealership refers to his competitor as the "Taliban Toyota" to try to keep customers away. And he didn't stop there. Well, the Iranian-born owner of that other dealership sued and a jury just made a decision in that case.
Plus, thousands of inmates sitting in prison on crack cocaine charges, Congress just made a huge move, they are going to set them free. Sunny Hostin is on the case. That is next.
Also, we are just getting amazing video of this rescue in California. It involves human smuggling. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We just got this video into us here at CNN. Let me walk you through this, what we are looking at here. Six people from Mexico, they were stuck in this abandoned gas line tunnel. You're looking at firefighters this is the U.S. side. Border patrol agents apparently spotted these people going in this manhole cover on the Mexican side of the border and, basically, they had to walk them out. And then once they cut them out, they arrested them on the U.S. side.
Just to give you some perspective here this tunnel was 100 yards long, not very wide, two and a half feet around. We are told no one was seriously injured. The border patrol will guard the U.S. side of that tunnel until it can actually be sealed up there with concrete. Stunning video there out of San Diego.
A prison door swinging open for as many as 1,800 inmates because of the change in crack cocaine sentencing laws. Sunny Hostin is "On the Case" on this one. We are going to go to her right after break. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: As I mentioned a moment ago, prison doors are swinging wide open for as many as 1,800 inmates because of a change in crack cocaine sentencing laws. Sunny Hostin is "On the Case." And Sunny, why the change in the law? What does this do?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this has been some time in the coming, Brooke. Remember in the 1980s when there was that huge crack epidemic that was really very pervasive in black communities? Laws were changed in that sense to try to address that crack epidemic and try to make these inner city neighborhoods safer. So there was a disparity in minimum mandatory sentences in federal courts. That was 100-one disparity. So if you were convicted in a case where you had five grams of crack cocaine, you got five years mandatory minimum. You needed 500 grams of powder cocaine to get the same sentence.
So in 2010 Congress passed the fair sentencing act to try to really resolve that huge disparity. So now that it has been passed it became retroactive just yesterday, and many, many people are being released. Their sentences are also being reduced.
BALDWIN: Many, many as far as, you know, maybe as many as 1,800. This is just the beginning. I mean, how many prisoners could be handed these -- let's call them get out of jail early cards over the next couple of years?
HOSTIN: Yes, my understanding, about 12,000 prisoners are eligible for reduced sentences. Now, these are not automatic reductions, Brooke. They have to go in front of a judge, they have to request these reductions and the judge will determine whether or not the people or the person, that defendant is a danger to the community, a danger to society.
If it is found -- if a person is found not to be a danger in the community that person will be released earlier. So we are talking about perhaps reductions, as much as three to five years in some of these sentences. But just on Tuesday, many were released, you mentioned 1,800 were released.
BALDWIN: Is there any benefit to society with this?
HOSTIN: You know, I think so. I mean, certainly, there are those that feel these people committed the crime they need do the time. But we are talking about 100-one disparity. We do want equality in the law. I still would suggest that we have a ways to go because there is still an 18-one disparity that remains in the law. So still work to do, but this really is a step in the right direction.
Many people, including myself as a former federal prosecutor, feel that this was really a stain on the federal system.
BALDWIN: Case number two -- truly fierce competition can be very costly. Take this lawsuit against the Florida Toyota dealership accused of calling a rival dealership in Alabama the "Taliban Toyota." Sunny, how much will that -- those two words cost this Florida car dealer
HOSTIN: It cost him $7.5 million in damages. So, no matter how many of these Toyotas he sold, certainly, this was not worth it to this Toyota dealer.
BALDWIN: Could the salesman in Florida have gotten story anymore wrong? The Alabama dealer isn't even from Iraq? If he was, the Taliban doesn't even operate there. HOSTIN: I know. That is thing. You know, he was -- he is Iranian. He's a naturalized U.S. citizen. He fled Iran in 1980 following the Islamic revolution. So, you know, just the ignorance is sort of baffling in this, and it cost him $7.5 million. He was awarded punitive damages -- the person was also awarded punitive damages. So quite a big win for this U.S. citizen. He says that these actions were un-American, and I think many people would agree with him.
BALDWIN: Iran. Iran. Sunny Hostin, thank you. Now this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm finished, and I will probably move on to a credit union.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Battle of big business versus the people, big business blinks first. First, Netflix, now, Bank of America caving in to customer outrage. Might this be the start of a trend? How does this affect you? We are back in 60 second he is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: So, we have talked about this quite a bit when the news first broke. Bow Bank of Americas backpedaling, backing off its plan to charge customers that $5 a month debit card fee. Many say it is a modern day David and Goliath story, thanks in part to 22-year-old Molly Katchpole. She started an online petition against the fee, got more than 300,000 signatures. Credit expert and president of consumer education at SmartCredit.com John Ulzheimer joins me to talk first about this story and the fact that so many people are breathing a sigh of relief, right, they don't have to deal with this $5 fee. A lot of people are saying this is a huge, huge win for the consumer. My question is, does that meant bank will find some other way to charge us elsewhere?
JOHN ULZHEIMER, PRESIDENT, CONSUMER EDUCATION, SMARTCREDIT.COM: I don't think we have seen the final chapter of this just yet. But the root cause that motivated the banks to start charging a-to-use their debit card was the Durbin amendment to the Dodd-Frank act where the swipe fee for debit cards was capped at 21 cents where it used to be 44 on average. That hasn't changed so they will look for ways to recoup billions and billions of revenue, and the consumers have to be careful for what I call the end and the backwards way of taking money out of your pocket.
BALDWIN: You mentioned Durbin, I was reading this morning, quoting, talking to reporters on Capitol Hill, talking about the reversal by major banks proving consumers will walk away if not being treated fairly. He said, quote, "I hope the banking industry learns from this." Will they learn from this, and what will they learn?
ULZHEIMER: I don't know. They have a very short memory. When you start charging people to use a credit card, OK, I get it. I'm getting access to thousands of dollars of your money, I can deal with it. But when you start charging me to have access on my own money and a product people love, I'm using the word "love" now, people love their debit cards that is a bad move. Someone should have let these guys know when you cross the line, you are going to give them motivation to take their business somewhere else, which is a pain to do, but so many people have been doing it.
BALDWIN: Speaking of taking your business somewhere else, a lot of people, or at least talk of a lot of people leaving the big banks, going to credit unions. Have we seen evidence of that?
ULZHEIMER: Absolutely. If you listen to anyone from the credit union trade association, they have seen tens of thousands of new customers hundreds of millions of dollars in new deposits over the past four weeks. Obviously that's because of new fees on debit cards. And remember, we only talking about five megabanks here. There are 10,000 credit unions not charging people to have access to their own money. So it makes perfect sense that people are migrating away from the fee guys to the free guys.
BALDWIN: What's your recommendation to people thinking, OK if I'm not paying this fee, do I stay with my big bank? If I go to a credit union, what is in it for me? What should I look out for?
ULZHEIMER: If I describe to you all the services and products a credit union can offer, it sounds look I'm describing a bank -- mortgages, auto loans, brokerages, debit services. They really offer the same things, but they are nonprofit. They don't have to impress Wall Street.
BALDWIN: So they have got these lower rates.
ULZHEIMER: Absolutely. They don't have to juice their customers every three months to make their numbers look great. I say if you are motivated to move just because the fee has been delayed for some period of time, I say go ahead and move because now you are not under the gun for the fee.
BALDWIN: John Ulzheimer, nice to meet you.
ULZHEIMER: Likewise. Thanks for having me.
BALDWIN: Thank you so much.
Coming up next, a plot to attack the government, the media, politicians, even folks driving on the interstate, now they are busted by the feds, these are -- we will call them unusual suspects here and their plot all over the place. They just appeared court. George Howell is standing by live with that. We are back in 70 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Four men in Georgia face charges in an alleged domestic terror plot involving explosives, guns, and deadly toxin. They are accused of buying a gun silencer what appears to be explosives and the ingredient that could make ricin. So the feds say the men also had this buck bucket list of intended victims. On that bucket list, take a look, government employees, politicians, corporate leaders, and members of the media. But this alleged plot didn't stop there. The government says the men were planning murder on a mass scale by spreading the deadly toxin ricin across an Atlanta freeway. And not just that. They wanted to drop the stuff from a plane over Washington, D.C. as well. Their motive? Patriotism.
The four men appeared to be unlikely terror suspects as well. If you look at them, they are in their 60s, 70s and they just appeared in court. George Howell is right outside that courthouse in Gainesville, Georgia. George, what happened in court?
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, first of all, I want to tell you what is happening behind me, waiting for relatives and friends to come out of the courtroom. I will step out of the way if it happens while we are talking and we will bring it to you live.
But inside the courtroom, tough keep in mind, these are old suspects, again, you have to remember, in their 60s and 70s. You could tell they were hard of hearing. At times, three of them were cupping their ears like this to hear the judge a little better. Again, they were respectful in court, they were reserved, referred to the judge as "yes, ma'am" and "your honor," which is a very far cry from all of the quotes that we have seen in these affidavits where they allegedly had a real hatred for the government and threatened to kill, Brooke, government officials.
BALDWIN: How -- how, George, did the FBI find out about this group? It was an informant, correct?
HOWELL: They had two informants -- two informants at least who were following their every move. And again, these informants were tipping off police, telling them information. When it got to the point these men were ready to purchase ammunition and explosives, when they were preparing to or trying to prepare rather that toxin, that is when the feds moved in.
BALDWIN: OK, so we're talking about these four guys in their 60s and 70s. Where do they go next? What happens next?
HOWELL: At this point, next week, we will hear more about another court hearing here where they will discuss bond. And also, just so you know, all four men requested to have requested to have the court appoint their attorneys. So we're waiting to see what happens next week, Brooke.
BALDWIN: OK, George Howell, we'll stay on it right with you. Thank you so much in Gainesville, Georgia.
Now, to one of really today's top stories here. We are closely following the sexual harassment allegations against Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain. As you know, all sides here are bound by this confidentiality agreement that goes all the way back to 1999. So if people are not allowed to talk get in getting the facts can be difficult.
Just about two hours ago, we got a statement here at CNN from the restaurant lobby group that Cain once headed. Here's what it said. Quote, "Attorney Joel Bennett, the attorney for one of Cain's accusers, contacted the National Restaurant Association this morning. A association representative promptly returned his call and asked Mr. Bennett to contact the association's outside counsel. Mr. Bennett indicated he would do so tomorrow after he met with his client."
So why is this so important? Because according to Joel Bennett, this attorney, Cain is not telling the truth, and his client wants to tell her story. But in order for that to happen, both sides here have to agree to waive that confidentiality. So now we know that both sides are talking, so perhaps this time tomorrow we should know a lot more about whether we're going to hear this woman's story. So obviously stay tuned for that.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" mere minutes away. Wolf Blitzer joins me from Chicago, and you have even more on Herman Cain today.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": We're going to be obviously going in depth and taking a closer look. Once these stories, Brooke, start, you have no idea where they're going to wind up. We know that there's high interest in a story like this not only to journalists, community, but in the political community, not only Democrats, but Republicans. People want to know what's going on.
And it puts enormous amount of pressure on the candidate, in this particular case, Herman Cain. We saw some of that spill over today in that testy exchange he had with reporters. Normally, as you know, Brooke, he's very polite, nice, always a smile, always seems very gracious, and it was sort of out of character for him to sort of blast some of these reporters peppering him with questions at that stake out. He could have handled it better.
But as I say, given the sexual harassment allegations, the pressure on him, it's been intense, it's been enormous. But as I write in my blog today, if you want to be president of the United States, if you want to get the Republican presidential nomination, you got to expect that kind of heat. You don't want the heat, get out of the kitchen. It comes with the territory. So he's going to have to get used to it.
These kinds of stories, and I've covered many of them, politics, allegations of some sort of sex or whatever, they have a life of their own. You don't know where they're going to end up. I'm reminded back in 92, when I was covering Bill Clinton and he was running for Democratic nomination, all of a sudden the Jennifer Flowers sexual allegations came up. He went on "60 Minutes" with Hillary Clinton. He not only went on to capture the Democratic nomination, he won the presidency in November of 92 as well.
So Herman Cain should go back, take a look at some of those earlier examples of what's going on, learn from that. He's got to deal with a real crisis and has to get ready, no doubt about that, if in fact he wants to be -- he wants to get that Republican nomination. BALDWIN: If he does, which so far it appears as though he does. Wolf Blitzer in Chicago, we'll see you in a couple of minutes on "THE SITUATION ROOM." Thank you so much.
Still ahead here, Condi Rice reveals how Moammar Gadhafi was infatuated with her. Wait until you hear what kind of video he apparently showed her. Don't miss that.
Plus, a big time celebrity shows up on Capitol Hill today telling lawmakers about wild animals. Want to take a hint? Queue the music. Joe Johns, it totally gives it away. "Political Pop," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: On "Political Pop" today, former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice had a strange story to tell on "The Daily Show," and it involved Moammar Gadhafi and a music video. Joe Johns has the scoop for us in "Political Pop." Joe, this is kind of funny.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: We knew just a hint of it. There was a headline waiting to be filled in with the story. We knew Gadhafi had a thing for Condoleezza Rice and we definitely knew Condoleezza rice was going to have quite a story here. Pictures of the former secretary of state were actually found in the Libyan leaders personal affects and now, we know a little bit more of what was going on there after she went, Condoleezza Rice, on "The Daily Show," to talk about it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": Were you aware that he had a strange and shall I say creepy fixation on Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice?
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I was aware. Several of my foreign minister colleagues had told me before I went to visit him back in 2008 that he had this fixation. And when I got there, I thought, just get through your business. Just do a diplomacy, just get out of here.
And everything was going fine, then he said, I have this video for you. And I thought, what is this? But it was actually just pictures of me with Hu Jintao, with Vladimir Putin of Russia, set to a song he had written called "Black Flower in the White House."
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: How's the song go?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That's hilarious.
JOHNS: I know. I've actually called her a few times trying to get her to talk about it, but she wouldn't because she was working.
BALDWIN: You didn't have a song.
JOHNS: She was working on this book. And now we know.
BALDWIN: Now, we know. Hilarious.
Also today on the Hill, I don't know if we have the music to cue it back up, but Bob Barker talking animals.
JOHNS: That's right. Host of "Price is Right," former host, teaming up with Virginia Congressman Jim Moran among others, going after the circus. The point here is that the circus, he says, is pretty much an anachronism. He's a long time animal advocate. He's been speaking to lawmakers to show his support for something called the Traveling Exotic Animal Protection Act. This is legislation on the Hill that is supposed to restrict the use of animals like elephants, tigers, and so on in traveling circuses.
He says they suffer and a lot of people have said this. They're kept in small cages, beaten with clubs, forced to do things they wouldn't naturally do. And he just thinks it's wrong. He says some circus handlers actually starve the animals in order to get them to do tricks. So Bob Barker with a completely different cause other than the "Price is Right."
BALDWIN: I like that we kept the music up for that entire time. I was thinking I think Wolf might get mad at us if we let that music bleed into "THE SITUATION ROOM." Joe Johns, thank you so much for coming on as always.
Thank you for watching, and a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Mr. Blitzer in Chicago.
Wolf, all you.
