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Penn's State Former Defensive Coordinator Charged With Sexual Assaults on Eight Young Men; Andy Rooney Dies at Age 92; 188,000 Still In The Dark In Connecticut; Texas Judge Seen Beating Daughter; Texas Judge Seen Beating Daughter; Cop Arrests Another Cop After High-Speed Chase; Jury Began Deliberations Friday in Dr. Conrad Murray Trial

Aired November 05, 2011 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Don Lemon. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We're going to start with this.

On a huge Saturday for college football, shocking allegations of sexual child abuse against a former coach for the revered Penn State Nittany Lions. An affair university big wigs are accused of covering it all up. Penn State former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky faces a long list of charges, including seven counts, seven counts of involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Penn State's athletic director Tim Curley and university's senior vice president for finance and business Gary Schultz are charged with perjury and failing to report an investigation into the allegations.

Sandusky retired from coaching in 1999 and founded a charitable organization for at-risk children called "second mile." He is accused of making sexual advances of eight young men he met through that very program. Pennsylvania's attorney general, whose name is Linda Kelly, made this statement, "This is a case about a sexual predator who used his position within the university and community to repeatedly prey on young boys. It is also a case about high-ranking university officials who allegedly failed to report the sexual assault of a young boy after the information was brought to their attention, and later made false statements to a grand jury that was investigating a series of assaults on young boys."

And Penn State's President Graham Spanier released a statement reading in part, "The allegations about a former coach are troubling and it is appropriate that they be investigated thoroughly. Protecting children requires the utmost vigilance. Tim Curley, and Gary Schultz operate at the highest levels of honesty, integrity and compassion. I am confident the record will show that these charges are groundless and that they conducted themselves professionally and appropriately."

OK. Well, Penn State's legendary head football Coach Joe Paterno is not facing any charges. The attorney general says, Paterno did alert athletic Director Tim Curley about one of the alleged incidents involving Sandusky in 2002.

Joining us now on the phone is Sara Ganim, a reporter for "The Patriot-News." Sara, you have actually been following this story for several years now, haven't you? What have you learned? SARA GANIM, REPORTER, "THE PATRIOT-NEWS" (on the phone): Yes, we first learned about this in the summer of 2009, not long after the first boy came forward. And I say, the first boy, I mean the first one to really come forward to police and be believed by police. What we know from today is that there's really like two sets of allegations here. There's a couple of kids -- there are two kids who accused Sandusky of a prolonged relationship of abuse over a couple of years. And really adult like sex acts. And then there's this series of shower incidents involved. A few other kids, and not all of them actually testified. Some of them were cases where witnesses saw something in a shower and reported it or didn't report it and that's where you get these eight cases or they say eight victims. There are actually eight separate incidents...

LEMON: Hey, Sara, can I just jump in real quick. And I'll let you continue.

GANIM: Sure.

LEMON: This is new video coming in to CNN of Sandusky being arrested again. New video of Jerry Sandusky being arrested. You can see the handcuffs in the earlier shot there him being taken in. Sara, sorry to cut you off, continue please.

GANIM: No, I mean, that was about it. That was the indictment is only about 23 pages. And it breaks it down into each individual case, each victims, each of these eight victims. And it starts off I should say, the indictment and the jurors started by saying, they all but come out and say that this charity was a point for him to get access to kids. It says basically many of these boys were vulnerable due to their social situations and this was how he found his victims. Almost every single one of them was a child that initially was in a second mile program and began hanging out with Sandusky. And that's, you know, all alleged. But that's what the indictment says.

LEMON: And there are no -- at least now, are there any new incidents? Because apparently, according to what I've read, that these were allegations that stemmed from years ago, some of these men -- young men were in their teens then and now they are grown men or at least are older or of age at this point.

GANIM: That's correct. Most of them are in their 20s. The child that came forward from Clinton County, Pennsylvania, in 2009, he came forward, he's still a teen. He's the youngest of the group. And it does not appear that anyone has come forward who has been abused since that child came forward. So since the investigation began, it doesn't appear that there are any new victims. What the attorney general alleged and called troubling was that Penn state officials might have known about this back in the late '90s -- I'm sorry, back in early 2000 and didn't take the proper steps to stop it so that there were victims after that allegation in the locker room in 2002.

LEMON: And Sandusky has been aware of these charges for quite a while. And he has denied them, his wife as well denied these charges saying it's completely not true, correct?

GANIM: That's correct.

LEMON: Yes.

GANIM: From the moment that we broke the story in March of 2011 this year, he came out and said, I'm innocent of all of this and, you know, I look forward to proving my innocence in court. And, you know, that was his mantra again today.

LEMON: I thought it's Director Timothy Curley and then also the senior vice president for finance business Gary Schultz, what's their status now? Because they're supposed to turn themselves in.

GANIM: They're going to turn themselves in Monday morning in Harrisburg. And the reason for that is that's where the grand jury met in Pennsylvania. And that's where the perjury is alleged to have taken place. What's interesting about that case, further statues, I mean, they're still employed with the university. You read the statement from Spanier, that he's backing them up. But what's interesting about their case is, I think it's going to come out as kind of a -- he said, situation, this could end up being them versus Joe Paterno in some way. You know, what Gary Schultz and Tim Curley say was told to them is very different than what that graduate assistant says he told Joe Paterno in 2002. And since the attorney general has come out and said that Joe did the right thing, I think he's going to be a major witness for this prosecution.

LEMON: I'm glad you bring up that. We talked about Joe Paterno. Again, he's a legend. And if you can explain to our viewers, I'm sure many of them know that some of them may not know just how historic this particular football organization is and Joe Paterno is a legend in that area, the Nittany Lions.

GANIM: Both of them are. If you were to ask me ten months ago, even today, who are the two biggest names in state college, it would be one, Joe Paterno and two, Jerry Sandusky in state college, in Penn's State football. So, this is really heartbreaking for a lot of people. And I think a lot of people still don't have their heads wrapped around it. I know in conducting interviews. One of the first things that people asked me was, did Joe know? And, you know, it wasn't something that we could ever really answer. That was something that the A.G.'s office has now answered. But it's really, you know, you can't even match the legendary status. Really, they're number one and number two.

LEMON: Again, and you're looking at the new video you saw there of Jerry Sandusky turning himself in to authorities earlier today just a short time ago. We want to thank Sara Ganim, reporter for "The Patriot-News" who's been covering the story from the very beginning. Sara, thank you so much, OK?

GANIM: Absolutely.

LEMON: All right. Let's turn now to other news, sad news as a matter of fact. America's most lovable curmudgeon has died. Long time, "60 Minutes" commentator Andy Rooney passed away last night from surgery complications. It was just a month ago that Rooney signed off from "60 Minutes" for the very last time. He was known for his wit on matters great and small. At the end of each single "60 Minutes" program. And despite coming across on air as a really grumpy old man, so to speak, I hate to call him that because he's gone. But that's how he came across. CBS Colleague Bob Simon says in reality, Rooney was a prince of a man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SIMON, CBS NEWS, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: I think people looking at him on camera might not realize what a nice guy he was. He really was. When I joined "60 Minutes," and "60 minutes" is not the easiest club in the world to join -- he was awfully, awfully nice. He invited me to lunch. He'd call now and then to see how I was doing. He's a sweetheart of a human being which didn't always come across in his commentary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Andy Rooney, 92 years old. Of course, he'll be missed.

Want to go now to Connecticut where thousands of homes are still in the dark and the cold one week after a surprise snowstorm overwhelmed the northeast. The governor is clearly not happy by the pace of repairs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. DANNEL MALLOY (D), CONNECTICUT: I also want to be very clear that I, too, am frustrated as is everyone with the pace that is being set. And we want to do everything we can as part of state government to help in performing the missions necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Our national correspondent Susan Candiotti joins us now live from West Hartford. Susan, were they able to make much progress -- any progress today?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They have been making progress today. And I'll tell you why, Don, because today we have seen more crews than we have ever seen before going through various parts of Connecticut trying to get people's power turned back on. And this is the kind of thing they're up against. For example, on this street, this is what takes extra time. You see that power pole lying in the middle of the street with a transformer? It's blocking the street right now, as are the power lines coming down here. And that was after the heavy snow weighted down that tree, snapped it off, fell on top of the power lines. And that's what's taking the extra time to get everything fixed. Now, Connecticut power and light says it has been doing the best it can because it never anticipated this much damage from a freak storm that happened a week ago.

But if you're a resident without power and it is getting cold again tonight, it's not very pleasant. Now, the state attorney general has already launched an investigation into whether the power company did all it could to prepare for this storm. Right now, people are saying they're going to wait until that verdict comes in. For now, the power company says, they have all but -- all power restored except for 15 percent of the people who had lost power. Will they make their goal of getting 99 percent back on by tomorrow night? They say they will make it. If not, the governor says it will be unacceptable. We'll see what happens -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Susan, stand by. We'll be checking back in with you. Thank you very much.

We want to go to Greece now. Another developing story where the prime minister vows to do whatever he can to get a painful but necessary austerity plan through parliament. George Papandreou narrowly survived a confidence vote and now he wants to form a new coalition to get his troubled country's financial house in order. CNN's Jim Boulden is in Athens. Jim, what happens next?

JIM BOULDEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, what happens next is that the president of Greece will meet with the leaders of most of the major parties on Sunday and he will try to get all of them somehow come together to form another government, maybe under George Papandreou, maybe not. But what's really important here, as you said, is that whoever forms the next government needs to do it quickly and then they need to start debating and try to pass this very big austerity package. This is the package agreed to last week in Brussels that fell apart earlier this week in Greece. And this is the package that upset so many people, the G-20 Summit when Mr. Obama and others were meeting in Cannes a few days ago and why the markets were gyrating last week, because Greece had a deal but then it fell apart. They had to try to rebuild that deal in the coming days -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much. Jim Boulden in Athens, we appreciate it.

Up next, a preview of tonight's one-on-one debate between just two of the GOP candidates, Herman Cain versus Newt Gingrich. We'll have a live report from Texas for you.

Plus, a Texas judge is caught on video whipping his daughter, spanking. There's a new debate right now about spanking children. We're going to talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Until now, it is been hard to fit all the republican candidates on stage for the presidential debates. But the one happening tonight in Houston area is scaled down to just two hopefuls. Newt Gingrich who is enjoying a recent upswing in the polls, and Herman Cain, the virtual track runner who's coming on, who's coming off I should say very tough week with past allegations of sexual misconduct coming back to haunt him.

CNN's political reporter Shannon Travis standing by live at the site of this debate, Lincoln Douglas-like debate, everyone is saying. So, Shannon, will these harassment allegations against Cain be off limits tonight? SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Don, it will not be a part of the discussion. But it will likely be the elephant in the room. This debate between Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain here in the Houston area. As you just mentioned, Herman Cain is coming off a very rough week of sexual harassment allegations and the drip-drip of information and even more allegations. He's, of course, denied -- that he's never done anything wrong, he's never sexually harassed anyone. None of that will be on the table for this debate between these two men. This is sponsored by the Texas Patriots PAC. It's basically a Tea Party organization and they want to talk about entitlement spending.

You and our viewers of course understand that entitlements take up the lion's share of the federal budget. And that's what they want to focus on. They're going to be two moderators, one of them is Congressman Steve King of Iowa, not really moderators in the traditional sense of the word. They'll be tossing out questions and topics to Gingrich and Cain. And they will be talking about Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and a free-wheeling discussion like you said in the style of the 1858 Lincoln-Douglas debates -- Don.

LEMON: So, then, what's the purpose of it. Why just the two of them, Shannon?

TRAVIS: Yes. The organizers tell me that they only invited these two because they feel like the discussions, the important issues don't get a full airing with so many candidates on stage, when you have seven, eight, nine candidates up there and each of them is only getting a minute, maybe 30 seconds to dive into a really serious subject. So the organizers tell me that they've only invited these two to this debate. But in future debates, that they hope to have, they hope to also have other candidates kind of square off against each other, again, in the style of the Lincoln/Douglas debates. Of course, we know back then that Abraham Lincoln did not defeat Senator Stephen Douglas in 1858. So, I'm sure these candidates hope that they don't have the same fate -- Don.

LEMON: Thank you, Shannon, we appreciate it.

LEMON: With mortgage rates at an all-time low now, a lot of people say now is the time to refinance. But how do you know if it is right for you? In this week's "Smart is the New Rich," Christine Romans chats with the experts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Bob, you have a formula for me? What's your refinancing formula?

BOB MOULTON, PRESIDENT, AMERICANA MORTGAGE GROUP: It's very simple, Christine. You have to look at what it's going to cost you to refinance. If you have a $200,000 mortgage, and you are going from six percent to four percent, you're going to save about $200 a month. If it costs you $4,000 to close that refinance, you're going to be even at about 20 months. So you have to ask yourself, are you going to be in the house for 20 months? If the answer is yes, you refinance. If the answer is no, don't refinance. Don't waste the money. Don't spend the money.

ROMANS: There you go. It also depends right on how long you have on the term of the loan, right?

MOULTON: Exactly.

ROMANS: So, the more time you have on that loan, the longer you think you'll be in the property, the more sense it makes to refinance.

MOULTON: Right. A lot of people, too, are reducing their term. I mean, people who have six percent, 30-year fixed are coming down to a three in a quarter percent, 15-year fixed rate mortgage. They're knocking or 12, 13, 14 years off their mortgage. And there's a lot to be said for that.

ROMANS: But this doesn't magically happen overnight. You have to do some steps, Lynnette, to make yourself ready for this process.

LYNNETTE KHALFANI-COX, ASK THE MONEY COACH.COM: That's right. You've got to get that credit together. That's one of the key points right now. Check your FICO credit score. Myfico.com is the place to go for that. Get those credit reports. Go to annualcreditreport.com.

ROMANS: That's free.

KHALFANI-COX: That's free to do that there, obviously. Dispute any mistakes you have in the credit reports. Spruce that stuff up. Saving money. This matters, too. Banks like to see cash reserves on hand. They don't want to feel like oh, we're going to lend to somebody who's cash strapped, living paycheck to paycheck, or if they happen to lose their job, won't be able to make the mortgage payment and float it for three months. So, you have to do some preparation there to get yourself ready.

ROMANS: What are some of the mistakes that people commonly make?

KHALFANI-COX: The biggest mistake, by far and away, is a failure to shop around. If I had one bit of advice.

ROMANS: Really?

KHALFANI-COX: Oh, absolutely.

ROMANS: See, I'm thinking of doing this. I just called up the person who's got my mortgage.

KHALFANI-COX: And I bet you were going to go with your existing lender, right?

ROMANS: That seemed easy.

KHALFANI-COX: See, and that's the path of least resistance and that is the path that is most expensive frankly, as well. ROMANS: OK.

KHALFANI-COX: Get online. Do some comparison shopping. Go to HSH.com. This is a great resource for your viewers. HSH.com. It's a free resource where you can mortgage comparison shop. You can find out the best rates and what's out there and available for you. You've got to make these banks compete for your business. Your existing lender, frankly, doesn't have much motivation to lower your interest rate from, say, X to X-minus one percent. They've already got you in a contract for 30 years or whatever, right? So make them compete. A mortgage broker is another option. Somebody who can help you to shop around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. Some good advice there. "Smart is a New Rich."

Next, a Texas judge responsible for protecting children from abuse is caught on tape yelling at his daughter and whipping her with a belt. National debate erupts over this. Is this child abuse?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back everyone. His job is to punish child abusers, and now a Texas judge court -- a Texas court judge is accused of being one himself. Not police but by the public. After his daughter posted a clip online of her father beating her. It is a graphic and disturbing video. But here it is. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM ADAMS, TEXAS COUNTY JUDGE: Bend over that bed.

HILLARY ADAMS, WILLIAM ADAMS' DAUGHTER: Dad?

ADAMS: Bend over that bed. Bend over the bed. Bend over the bed.

HILLARY ADAMS: Stop!

ADAMS: Bend over the bed or I'm going to keep getting you on your legs. Lady down. Roll over.

HILLARY ADAMS: Dad! Stop!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. The 16-year-old you just heard screaming is Hillary Adams who says the lashing was for downloading illegal music. She says it took place seven years ago. So, that's her now. That took place seven years ago, the video that you saw. That's the reason that the local prosecutors say, they can't file child abuse charges against her father, Judge William Adams. The statute of limitations of five years has run out now.

Tonight, two human behavior experts weigh in. Dr. Alduan Tartt, he's a clinical psychologist, he's in Washington. D.C. in our Washington Bureau there. And Dr. Wendy Walsh, the co-host of "The Doctors" is in Los Angeles. So, Wendy, both of you, there's -- I put this online. People have been tweeting this to me since the week, last weekend, like Sunday night, Monday morning. And there's a lot of support for him online. Wendy, I'll let you start first.

DR. WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: It's shocking to me because I would think that people would have learned at this point that corporal punishment is not an effective way to create behavior modification. Positive rewards and logical consequences are the way to go. And downloading music? That's the easiest thing for parents to control. You unplug that box and you walk it from the room and see how they do for the next week.

LEMON: Doctor Tartt?

DR. ALDUAN TARTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I'm not surprised. Because corporal punishment, especially within the African-American community, has been used for years and had positive rewards. The problem here is what's the difference between abuse and discipline and what we saw in that video was clearly physical abuse.

LEMON: OK. And I have to say, to be honest, growing up, there was a lot of that happening to families and relatives. We saw a lot of that. Wait until your dad gets home. And then you would hear that coming from the bedroom. In my particular household, it wasn't the whippings -- they weren't that bad. But we would hear, we walk by our neighbors' houses and we've hear that. So, I mean, I think Dr. Tartt, you have a point there when you say that. But Wendy, I understand what you're saying. You're saying, you know, those modes of discipline may be outdated -- or are outdated.

TARTT: Don, for every adult like you Don, who says, hey, it happened to me and I turned out OK, there's still a child out there who got completely psychologically abused and have major anxiety depression and problems with relationships now as a result of this.

LEMON: OK. So, listen, Judge Adams has come out with a response. And here's some of it. He says, Hillary warned her father, if he reduced her financial support and took away her Mercedes automobile which her father had provided he would live to regret it, the post was then uploaded after that. So, that's his response. Does that say anything about the father's remorse or does it say anything about the reason that the daughter put it up? Does it tell you anything Wendy about either one of them?

WALSH: It tells me that when you live in a family that is dominated by control and intimidation, you create dependent adults. You don't create independent kids by not teaching them how to self-regulate. If you oppress them and keep them on that leash -- this was in a weird way her brave act of independence to put this video out there because she had no other tools. This is an abused child who's now a young adult.

LEMON: Why would she do with those, seven years later?

WALSH: Because -- go ahead. TARTT: Yes. It could be part of her treatment in that, you know, before you can forgive someone, you have to go through rage and anger. This could be her way of standing up to him. But there's a problem. She's still dependent upon the abuser for financial resources. So, she's still not there -- her own independence. How many women break out of domestic violence but they can't leave because they have no way to support themselves. And I think that's where she is and that she wants to break free but financially, she's not ready.

LEMON: All right. Stick around. Don't go anywhere Doctors. We've heard about the father and the daughter. What about the mother? Why Hallie Adams says, she allowed this to happen to her daughter. That's in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. As promised, Dr. Wendy Walsh and Dr. Alduan Tartt are back. Real quickly, before you go to this video, Doctors. We were talking in the break, and I like the conversation we had. Because I went to catholic school. Almost every day, I got either spanked or paddled or other people got spanked or paddled publicly in front of everyone. You know, the nuns would peel your hand back with a pointer or, you know, with the big...

WALSH: That's terrible.

LEMON: Yes. They did it, though.

TARTT: But you know what? We didn't have all the disciplinary problems that we had in school. You talk to teachers and ask them if they want to bring corporal punishment back and they're going to tell you overwhelmingly, absolutely.

WALSH: Yes, but that's your tarp.

LEMON: No different for the girls, Dr. Wendy. No different for the girls. Go ahead.

WALSH: Yes. But I was going to say. Yes, we've removed some violence from our culture but what we haven't done is replaced it with good behavior modifications that involve logical consequences that we need. And it's just as traumatic -- I told you on the break, too, that while I wasn't strapped in school, I witnessed it in front of the class. And that was traumatic for me.

And when I look at this judge's video, nobody's talked about the fact that early on in that video, there's a young, unclothed daughter who comes in and out of frame. She looks to be about five or six. She's watching this. And if you don't think by the way this judge knows he's doing wrong, why did he turn off the light? He turned off the light before he started strapping her because he didn't want the neighbors to see.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK, OK, hey -- listen, in no way are any of us condoning what happened but it's just the facts that many of us grew up with, corporal punishment. Sometimes it was pretty severe. Let's go to this video now. In this video, we have seen the Texas judge, William Adams, striking his daughter with a strap. Let's see now, here's his wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALLIE ADAMS, MOTHER OF HILLARY ADAMS: You get over on your stomach and you let me spank you on the butt.

(CROSSTALK)

HALLIE ADAMS: No.

(CROSSTALK)

HALLIE ADAMS: You turn over. I'm going to spank you on your butt. You turn over like a 16-year-old and take it, like a grown woman. All the way, on your stomach.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALLIE ADAMS: He would force me to do things so, when I'm out of the room, he's talking to me saying things -- telling me to go do things. And I was just very pressured. I act very zombie-like. My voice is very cold.

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: What's it like for you to see this tape now?

HALLIE ADAMS: It was very upsetting to me. I thought he was a monster. I thought that I was a witch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Dr. Tartt, what is she talking about? Explain to us this accomplice-type behavior and her comments about being a zombie.

DR. ALDUAN TARTT, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It was very interesting. She said, lay over and take it like a grown woman. My guess is she was in the abusive relationship with her husband. She was being abused by him as well. When she said zombie-like, he manipulated her and controlled her to a point to where she felt like, to keep peace in the house, this is what she has to do to, physically abuse her daughter. That's exactly why she participated. This was not corporal punishment. This was clearly physical abuse, no ifs, ands, buts about it.

LEMON: Wendy, you're shaking your head. Go ahead.

WALSH: I absolutely agree with you. This is where she's colluded with the aggressor. Earlier in the video, she also says, oh, you don't have to spank her, I already spanked her or, let me spank her. She's trying to placate. She's trying to find ways so it won't be as bad as it could be. But clearly, she is being dominated as well. This is an abusive household all the way around.

LEMON: We heard the father's response that the daughter posted the video for taking away her car. So, let's hear Hillary's response to her father's statements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM WILLIAM: Bend over -- bend over -- bend over the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the bed! Darn it.

(SCREAMING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, apparently -- apparently. Sorry, that is the wrong video. But she says -- she says it's not about vengeance for her father. She basically saying, she was trying to show him the error of his ways -- Wendy?

WALSH: Yes, I think Dr. Tartt hit the nail on the head earlier when he said this could very much be part of her healing. Before someone who's been physically or emotionally abused can move forward and individuate, they go through a period of rage. So this is a big active independence for her, in my opinion.

LEMON: Dr. Walsh, Dr. Tartt, thank you very much.

Again, we apologize for showing the wrong video there. But we'll talk more about this. We'll hear from Hillary as well.

Thanks again to the doctors.

More at 7:00 on this Texas judge and that beating.

Coming up then, the super nanny, Jo Frost, gives her take and her advice on the right way to discipline tough kids. She actually contacted us. She wanted to speak out about this story.

Also a cop arrests another cop after a high-speed chase. Now, new -- this incredible video story coming up. Plus, the audio. We'll show you how this arrest played out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We have some new audio recordings out of Florida. A Florida state trooper pulling over a speeding car and it's no ordinary car, a marked police car. It happened last month in Miami. Police officer, Fausto Lopez, is accused of driving 120 miles an hour and leading state trooper, D.J. Watts, on a high-speed chase all because he was late for his off-duty job.

I want you to listen to Watts, calling her dispatcher to report the speeding patrol car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D.J. WATTS, FLORIDA STATE TROOPER: I don't know what agency it is. I'm on 91, almost to Sunrise. He's well over 120 and he's not stopping.

All I can see is a white patrol car with blue or something like that, writing -- it would be a Miami or DOT, and I'm sure it's not DOT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The trooper was then told to pull back. She didn't. And here's what happened after she pulled over the patrol car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTS: Put your hands out that window right now. Put your hands out the window!

FAUSTO LOPEZ, MIAMI POLICE OFFICER: Ma'am, I didn't --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTS: Turn around. Turned around right now.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTS: Turn around. Do yourself a favor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. Well, the police officer faces a reckless driving charge. This case is generating a lot of chatter online. Some people are angry at the trooper for pulling the officer over. And others, well, praising her actions.

Lieutenant Detective Steve Rogers is a retired police officer and law enforcement expert. He joins us now from New York.

Thank you so much for joining us.

We have gotten so much feedback from this story. Officer Lopez's lawyer admits he may have been speeding. So what's the debate about here?

DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, RETIRED NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY POLICE OFFICER: Well, there shouldn't be any. Don, my hat's off to that state trooper who upheld her oath of office, whereas that Miami officer put his life in danger, the life of innocent people in danger, and that trooper's life in danger. There is no excuse for these actions. And now he's going to have to pay the penalty just like you or I would if that was us on that highway.

LEMON: Lieutenant Rogers, in your opinion, the trooper did not overreact to the situation at all?

ROGERS: Not at all. Don, look at the nighttime -- the hour of the day or night that this trooper had to pursue this guy at 120 miles per hour. She didn't know who was in that car. When she discovered it was a police officer, was it a deranged cop? This guy had a gun on him, for goodness sakes. She did her job very professional. Again, in polling myself, myself, I talked to a number of police officers about this. And there are a lot of cops out there that are not too happy with this Miami officer. And their hats off to this trooper.

LEMON: You would think -- as a layperson, most people think, you see a police officer driving fast, you see them driving fast all the time, you assume they're driving fast because they're chasing a bad guy or in a rush to get to a some critical situation. Is it typical for one law enforcement officer to get suspicious of another for driving fast? Why wouldn't the officer assume, OK, well, he must be on his way to do something because he is in a marked car?

ROGERS: Well, for this reason. one is, there's no lights or sirens on that Miami car. Second, I could guarantee you, with the technology we have today, they're going to radio ahead. They're going to tell you, look, there's a Miami officer in pursuit.

I'll tell you, another thing you brought up, when that trooper was asked to pull back, many times we are asked on high-speed chases to back off, especially at high rates of speed, to avoid a serious accident where injury or death could occur. So in that case, again, the state police did a great job in protecting the safety, which is first in the minds of all police officers, of innocent people as well as that trooper.

LEMON: And she didn't know. That officer could have been in trouble. Could have been someone in the car directing him to go -- she didn't know. She's getting no response. So did --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGERS: You're right, Don. We don't know who's in any vehicle that we pull over. But they know who we are, and they could be ready to take our life. When she got out of her vehicle and drew her gun, she did it according to the standard procedures that most police officers are trained by in every state to protect themselves.

LEMON: Do you think that this is going to generate any bad feelings between Miami police and Florida state troopers and, if so, what problems will that create?

ROGERS: I really believe that police forces in this country are the best in the world. We have a lot of great cops in the Miami Police Department, a lot of great Florida state troopers. I know a number of them. And I believe those intelligent police officers who saw this know what went down here, and they will say, you know what, he did something he should not have done. He has to pay the price. That trooper did a courageous job in protecting herself and the lives of innocent people.

LEMON: Yes. I had one experience with a trooper in Florida. I got a ticket recently. He gave me a ticket but he was the nicest person, nicest cop that I had ever dealt with in my life. He was very courteous. He still gave me a ticket but he was a very nice guy.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you very much --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGERS: Well, the question is, were you wrong? Were you wrong, Don?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I was wrong. I was speeding. But he was a nice guy.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: He said, slow down, it's wet, you know. You could lose control and --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGERS: Great cops down there. They do a great job down there.

LEMON: Thank you, Lieutenant. We appreciate it.

Criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes, weighs in on the usual case coming up. And the Conrad Murray trial -- her prediction on the verdict coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back to cop versus cop in Miami. A few moments ago, we heard and saw the new video and audio recordings of a Florida state trooper pulling over a speeding police officer. The officer allegedly was going 120 miles an hour, leading the trooper on a chase to get to his off-duty job.

Criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes, joins me to weigh in.

Holly, the police's attorney says the trooper overreacted to the situation. Is he right?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: No, I don't think so. Here's why. She had no idea who was in that patrol car. What if it had been stolen by an armed robber and he had shot the officer, the officer is laying on the ground bleeding somewhere? And the other thing we have to look at, if she had let this go and somebody else saw what was happening, then she'd be accused of doing her friend a favor, letting another cop get away with something. No, she absolutely did the right thing.

And why was he speeding? 120 miles an hour with no lights, no sirens, to an off-duty job in uniform? No. She absolutely did the right thing.

Let me also say, I was just getting ready to defend you pro bono --

(LAUGHTER)

-- until you admitted on national TV that you were guilty. Thanks, Don.

LEMON: I already paid the ticket.

HUGHES: OK. All right.

LEMON: I'm telling you, he was a very nice guy. It happens. Everybody gets tickets.

HUGHES: I was going to help you out --

LEMON: I didn't know where I was going --

HUGHES: -- but you killed my case.

LEMON: I was looking at the GPS. I was going a little fast. He was a nice guy. Then he said, oh, yes, you're the guy from CNN, so I won't write you a ticket for this much --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: Oh, celebrity pays. See that?

LEMON: Let's turn to the Conrad Murray involuntary manslaughter trial.

(LAUGHTER)

HUGHES: Yes.

LEMON: The jury began deliberations Friday. In the closing arguments, the prosecution and the defense painted very different pictures of who's to blame for Michael Jackson's death. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What they're really asking you to do -- just say it -- what they're really asking you to do is to convict Dr. Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson. Somebody's got to say it. Somebody's got to tell the truth. Somebody's got to just say it. If it were anybody else but Michael Jackson, anybody else, would this doctor be here today?

DAVID WALGREN, PROSECUTOR: Michael Jackson is dead, and we have to hear about poor Conrad Murray. And no doctor knows what it's like to be in his shoes. You've got that right. Because I have not seen a doctor in this case who testified that they would ever do what Conrad Murray did, ever, including the defense experts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Holly, in your opinion, who did a better job of driving home their point? Was it the prosecution or the defense?

HUGHES: Well, I think it was the prosecution. But because they had better facts to work with, Don. Let's face it. Even the defense experts ended up testifying for the prosecution. When they asked the defense expert, the guy who's supposed to be -- Paul White, he's the foremost Propofol expert. The prosecutor says to him, would you ever take a job administering Propofol in somebody's bedroom? And he says, absolutely not!

LEMON: That's right.

HUGHES: I mean, come on. You're just feeding the prosecutor more points in closing. So I think they did a better job of driving home their points.

LEMON: I kind of know the answer to this next question, but I want to know from you, because I was there from the beginning, the opening statements and there for a little of the testimony. I watched almost all of it. I maybe missed two days of it. We were traveling and such. Were there any turning points for you? Because there were some for me. Were there any turning points for you in the trial?

HUGHES: Really, it goes back to what we were just talking about. I think when the defense experts ended up being turned for the prosecution -- because this is the end of their case. We heard from all the nice patients who thought Dr. Murray was fabulous. But then the defense winds up with these experts and the state ends up turning them around and getting them to admit, I would never in a million years engage in the behavior that the defendant engaged in.

LEMON: For me, it was the day when they pulled out the drugs and they were naming them one by one by one and you saw them --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: Powerful.

LEMON: Yes, that was very powerful. I know you hate to talk about verdicts. What do you think? Do you have any idea?

HUGHES: I think if the jury follows the law, if they look at those instructions -- and the judge gave them to them in written form -- and they asked for highlighters the other day, interestingly enough, on their first day of deliberations, which tells me they're looking at a piece of paper they can write on, which is going to be the law. If they follow the law, they will return a conviction in this case.

LEMON: Holly Hughes, appreciate it.

HUGHES: Thanks.

LEMON: Thanks very much.

Mental illness in the African-American community is often misunderstood and rarely discussed. Up next, a young woman battling schizophrenia opens up to help others. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In today's "Human Factor," reducing the stigma that surrounds schizophrenia. A college student says she has come to terms with her mental illness and has learned how to manage it. She is now sharing her story to help others. Here is CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(HUMAN FACTOR)

LEMON: He considered himself just a regular guy. We're remember award-winning journalist, Andy Rooney. That and other headlines coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's check your headlines right now.

A former football assistant football coach for Penn State is facing seven counts of child sex abuse charges. Pennsylvania's attorney general says 67 -year-old Jerry Sandusky preyed on young boys that he met through his youth charity. Two current university officials are accused of covering up Sandusky's alleged crimes and they face perjury charges.

Tributes are poring in for legendary CBS News commentator, Andy Rooney, who died last night in New York. Known for his witty essays on mundane topics, Rooney said good-bye to his regular gig on "60 Minutes" last month. Rooney had been hospitalized after suffering minor complications from a minor surgery. Andy Rooney was 92 years old.

Boxing legend, Joe Frazier, is said to be in a Philadelphia hospice, seriously ill after liver cancer. The 67-yeawr-old former heavy weight champion was diagnosed with the disease several weeks ago. Nicknamed Smokin' Joe Frazier, he took on the biggest names in boxing, including Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.

Overseas, deadly torrential flooding in Genoa, Italy. At least seven were killed as violent rains battered the region. Water raced through streets, piling cars into one another. The high winds and heavy rains are expected to continue until at least Sunday.

A horrific traffic accident in southwest England. At least seven people were killed and 51 injured in a 34-vehicle pileup. Some of the vehicles burned to the ground -- burned into the ground and are unrecognizable. Authorities fear there may be bodies in some of those cars. Rainy, foggy conditions may have been a factor in that pileup.

Tiger Woods' former caddy is apologizing for making some racially charged remarks aimed at his former boss. Steve Williams was at an awards dinner for caddies when he made the comment. Woods fired Williams in July after 13 years together. On his web site, Williams says he never intended to offend Woods or anybody else for that matter. Woods' agent says the comments were, quote, "regrettable."

Finally, don't forget to turn your clocks back an hour tonight. Daylight Saving Time ends at 2:05 am. Reset the clocks before you go to bed and maybe you'll gain an extra hour of sleep. You should, at least.

I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. Thank you so much for joining us. I'll see you back here at 7:00 p.m. eastern. Meantime, go Tigers. Go LSU Tigers.