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Sex Abuse Charges at Penn State; President Obama Talks Tax Breaks, Jobs for Vets; Verdict Watch for Conrad Murray Trial; Magic Winning Against HIV; Brothers Vs. Brothers in WWII; Talk Back Question

Aired November 07, 2011 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon, everyone.

Let's get you up to speed.

Two hours from now, a pair of Penn State officials go before a judge. Athletic director Tim Curley and finance VP Gary Schultz are accused of covering up a sex abuse scandal.

Former Penn State defensive coach Jerry Sandusky is charged with molesting eight boys over a 15-year period. Sandusky, through his attorney, says he is innocent.

Prosecutors claim Sandusky met the victims through his charity, the Second Mile, which helps troubled boys. Second Mile has released a statement saying they immediately made the decision to separate Sandusky from the program activities in 2008. That's when Sandusky told the organization he was under investigation.

About 80,000 Connecticut families are still without power eight days after a crippling snowstorm. It could be Wednesday before everybody is back on line. The governor has launched an investigation into the way that the state's largest power company responded. Well, it had predicted 99 percent of homes would have electricity by now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY BUTLER, PRESIDENT, CONNECTICUT LIGHT AND POWER: Not achieving this aggressive goal we set for ourselves is not due to the lack of effort, commitment and passion of the more than 9,000 workers of CL&P, Northeast Utilities, and all outside crews that came in to support this effort.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Now, the verdict watch is on right now in the Michael Jackson death trial. Jurors started their second day of deliberations just a short time ago. They have to reach a unanimous decision on whether Dr. Conrad Murray is guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's 2009 death from Propofol overdose.

Actress Lindsay Lohan was released from a Los Angeles County jail early this morning. She spent a little over six hours behind bars for a probation violation. Her 30-day sentence, shortened significantly because of jail overcrowding. Lohan must now perform community service at a Los Angeles morgue.

The political drama in Greece moves to its next act today. Prime Minister George Papandreou is talking with opposition leaders to discuss who will be the next prime minister. Papandreou says he'll step down if the government approves a European bailout deal. Investors worry that without the bailout, Greece will default on its debt and hurt other economies, including the United States.

Images today of one of Thailand's main airports in Bangkok show just how devastating the floodwaters are. The death toll from the country's worst flood disaster in half a century now exceeds 500. More than three million people are affected. Now, officials warn things could get even worse because floodgates are malfunctioning.

At the top of the hour we hope to learn more about the sweeping child sex abuse charges against former Penn State defensive coach Jerry Sandusky. Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly plans to outline the case.

CNN's Jason Carroll on his way to Harrisburg for that news conference. He joins us now by phone.

So, Jason, what do we expect to hear from the attorney general?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think a lot of us who are attending this, and many of those in the community, are hoping to hear more details about the case.

As you know, there's already that very graphic, Don, 23-page grand jury report which lays out in much detail how Sandusky allegedly treated these eight boys ranging in ages from 8 to 14. I think there are questions about why the investigation took so long, will there be other alleged victims who might come forward? These are the types of questions that we haven't been able to get answers to, which hopefully we might get some more information this afternoon, when that press conference gets under way at just about 1:00.

LEMON: All right. We have a little bit of breakup there. Let's hope your signal holds out, because I want to ask you a question, because these molestation accusations, Jason, have been out there since at least 2002. Why has it taken so long for prosecutors to bring this case?

CARROLL: Well, you know, that's a good point, Don. And I think prosecutors would argue, because of the sensitive nature of the allegations, that's why sometimes it takes longer to get witnesses to come forward and to testify.

And, Don, when you think about when some of these alleged incidents took place, we're talking many years ago, in some cases, so in some cases it is taking a while to actually find these alleged victims. You've got to find them first, then you've got to convince them to go forward and testify. So that can be a very lengthy part of the investigation -- LEMON: All right. Jason Carroll, sorry to cut you off. We'll get back to you.

Want to get to the Rose Garden now and President Obama. Let's listen in.

(APPLAUSE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much, everybody. Please be seated.

This week, we commemorate Veterans Day. We honor the service and the sacrifice of all who have worn the uniform of the United States of America with honor and distinction. And, above all, we commit ourselves to serving them as well as they have served us. That's why we're here today.

Today's 9/11 generation of veterans has already earned a special place in our history. Over a difficult decade, they have performed heroically in some of the world's most dangerous places. They've done everything that we've asked of them, and I'm honored to have some of these extraordinary Americans here at the White House with us this morning.

I'm also proud to be joined by some of America's leading veteran service organizations, the American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars, Disabled American Veterans, and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, as well as members of Congress who have historically been extraordinarily supportive of our veterans. And we're here today to try to take some steps to better serve today's veterans in a rough economy.

Over the past decade, nearly three million service members have transitioned back to civilian life, joining the millions who have served through the decades. And as we end the war in Iraq, and we wind down the war in Afghanistan, over a million more will join them over the next five years.

Now, just think about the skills these veterans have acquired, often at a very young age. Think about the leadership that they've learned, the cutting-edge technologies that they've mastered, their ability to adapt to changing and unpredictable circumstances you just can't get from a classroom. Think about how many have led others to life-and-death missions by the time they're 25 or 26 years old.

This is exactly the kind of leadership and responsibility that every American business should be competing to attract. This is the kind of talent we need to compete for the jobs and industry of the future. These are the kinds of Americans that every company should want to hire.

And yet, while our economy has added more than 350,000 private sector jobs just over the past three months, more than 850,000 veterans remain unemployed. Too many can't find a job worthy of their tremendous talents. Too many military spouses have a hard time finding work after moving from base to base to base. And even though the overall unemployment rate ticked down last month, unemployment among veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan continue to rise.

That's not right, it doesn't make sense, not for our veterans, not for our families, not for America. And we're determined to change that.

Now, I've told the story before of a soldier in the 82nd Airborne who served as combat medic in Afghanistan. And he saved lives over there.

He earned a Bronze Star for his actions. But when he returned home, he couldn't even get a job as a first responder. He had to take classes through the post-9/11 GI Bill, classes that he probably could have taught, just so he could qualify for the same duties at home that he was doing every single day at war.

You know what? If you can save a life on the battlefield, then you can save a life in an ambulance. If you can oversee a convoy or millions of dollars in assets in Iraq, you can help a business back home manage their supply chain or balance their books. If you can juggle the demands of raising a family while a loved one is at war, you can juggle the demands of almost any job in America.

We ask our men and women in uniform to leave their families and their jobs and risk their lives to fight for our country, and the last thing they should have to do is fight for a job when they come home. And that's why we're here today, to do everything in our power to see to it that America's veterans have the opportunities that they deserve and that they have earned.

Now, I've already directed the federal government to lead by example and to hire more veterans, and it has hired more than 120,000 so far. A couple of months ago, I also challenged private companies to hire or train 100,000 post-9/11 veterans or their spouses by the end of 2013, and already companies have hired more than 12,000 and committed to train or hire 25,000 more over the next two years.

And I want to thank the extraordinary work of my wife, the first lady, as well as Dr. Jill Biden, for leading this joining forces effort to support our military families and our veterans.

Nearly two months ago, I sent Congress the American Jobs Act. It was the only jobs plan independent economists said would boost our economy and put Americans back to work right now, and it was full of the kinds of ideas that have historically been supported by both parties. It was paid for, and it included two proposals that would have made a big difference for our veterans -- the Returning Heroes Tax Credit, which would give businesses a tax break for each unemployed veteran that they hire, and the Wounded Warriors Tax Credit, which would give businesses an even larger tax break for hiring an unemployed veteran with a disability related to their service in uniform. And these veteran service organizations are here today because they fully support these ideas.

Unfortunately, we have not yet seen progress in Congress. Senate Republicans have so far chosen to block these bills and these proposals. Since then, they've also blocked a jobs bill that would keep teachers in the classroom and first responders on the street, and blocked a jobs bill last week that would have put hundreds of thousands of construction workers back to work rebuilding America, despite the fact that more than 70 percent of Americans supported the ideas in this bill. Not one has yet stepped out on the other side of the aisle to say this is the right thing to do.

So they've had three chances to do the right thing. Three times they've said no. I believe it's time they said yes to taking action that would boost the economy overall, because the overall economy has an impact on veterans. It's a lot easier for veterans to find jobs if the economy is growing rapidly and unemployment is dropping.

And I think it's important for all of us to remember that we're all in this together. It's time we started acting like it. Bold action from Congress ultimately is the only way we're going to put hundreds of thousands of Americans back to work right now and rebuild an economy where everyone who works hard has a chance to get ahead.

So, I'm going to keep pushing these senators to vote on commonsense, paid-for ways to create jobs that members of both parties have supported before. But what I've also said is that I'm going to do everything in my power as the head of the executive branch to act on behalf of the American people, with or without Congress.

We can't simply wait for Congress to do its job. As commander- in-chief, I won't wait, nor will I let politics get in the way of making sure that American veterans share in the opportunities that they defend. If Congress won't act, I will.

And that's why two weeks ago, I announced a new initiative to help train veterans get jobs in the medical community. And today, we're announcing three new initiatives to help America's returning heroes get jobs that meet their talents.

First, we're delivering on the expanded jobs search services that I promised our post-9/11 veterans three months ago. Starting today, post-9/11 veterans looking for work can download what we're calling the Veterans Gold Card, which gives you up to six months of personalized job search services at career centers across the country.

Second, we're launching an easy-to-use online tool called My Next Move for veterans that allows veterans to enter information about their experience and skills in the field and match it with civilian careers that put that experience to use.

Third, we're connecting unemployed veterans to job openings. We've partnered with leading job search companies to create a new online service called Veterans Job Bank, where employers can tag jobs postings for veterans using a simple approach designed by major search engines. And already, more than 500,000 job openings have been tagged thanks to a company called Simply Hired, and companies like Monster and LinkedIn are helping more employers participate.

So, all these three initiatives are up and running right now. Just visit whitehouse.gov/vets to find each one. And I'm asking these veteran service organizations to spread the word. Connecting our veterans to the jobs they deserve isn't just the right thing do for our veterans, it's the right thing to do for America. But there is still more that we can do to encourage businesses to hire veterans.

And this week, Congress will have another chance to do the right thing. Now, they'll get to vote on those tax breaks that I proposed back in September for businesses to hire veterans. Members of Congress will get to say whether or not they think it's a good idea to give companies an incentive, an additional incentive, to hire the men and women who have risked their lives for our country.

And when I first proposed this idea -- some of you remember this joint session of Congress -- people stood and applauded on both sides of the aisle when I announced this bill. That was one of the few times both sides stood up.

So, when these ideas come up for a vote this week, when the TV cameras aren't necessarily on each of them, I expect both sides of the aisle to stand up for our veterans and vote in the affirmative. There's no good reason to oppose this bill. Not one.

Our veterans did their jobs. It's time for Congress to do theirs. It's time for them to put country before party, put our veterans back to work, and pass this element of the jobs package that benefits our veterans and gives businesses an incentive to hire veterans.

Standing up for our veterans is not a Democratic responsibility or a Republican responsibility, it is an American responsibility. It's an obligation of every citizen who enjoys the freedom that these heroes defend, and it is time for us to meet those obligations right now.

As commander-in-chief, I want all our veterans to know that we are forever grateful for your service and for your sacrifice. And just as you fought for us, we're going to keep fighting for you for more jobs, for more security, for the opportunity to keep your families strong and to keep America competitive in the 21st century. In other words, we're going to keep on fighting just as you did to show the world why the United States of America is still the greatest nation on Earth.

Thank you very much, everybody. God bless you. God bless the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

LEMON: President Obama in the Rose Garden, surrounded by veterans, talking about putting veterans back to work.

Some developing news now we want to show you.

We want to get you live now to New York -- Rockland County, New York, as a matter of fact. Let's look at these pictures now.

This is happening. What's going on? You're only seeing this guy hanging over the water here.

This is a protester. He is hanging 75 feet down from the Tappan Zee Bridge in Rockland County. He's been there a little bit now.

The protester is sitting on a sign suspended from the bottom of a ladder hanging from the span. The sign you can see partially reads there -- it says, "Rockland executive legislature cover-up retaliation," but the words underneath there are kind of difficult to read. And these live pictures coming to you from our affiliate WABC.

This guy is hanging there. We're going to follow this, continue to follow it here. Certainly interesting pictures. We'll see what's going on for you.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Back now live to Rockland County, New York.

And you see this guy. He is hanging from the Tappan Zee Bridge. He's been hanging there for a bit.

Apparently, he's upset with the Rockland executive legislature, because a sign that he's sitting on top of says, "Rockland executive legislature cover-up retaliation." And then there are more words under that, but you can't read them from that exact perch where the chopper is there.

He's been seen hanging 75 feet down from the bridge. The protester is sitting on that sign. It's suspended. The sign is suspended from the bottom of a ladder hanging from the span.

So we're going to follow that. Not exactly sure what his beef is, who he is, and how strong that rope is, or whatever he has used to fashion this sign and swing, as it's been coming out there.

And it's just a bit dangerous to be that high. And that water is cold.

So we'll continue to check on that to find out exactly what's going on, and if there is some effort to get him down, how they are exactly going to do it. We'll let you know.

Here's your chance to "Talk Back" now on some of the big stories of the day.

With people still waiting for their power to be restored in Connecticut, today's question: Should utility companies be penalized for not restoring power in a timely manner?

Carol Costello, live in New York.

I'm sure, overwhelmingly, people will go, heck, yes, especially if you're cold, or it's the middle of the summer and you're hot.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You'd be surprised. We're getting some interesting answers today.

But, Don, we have all been there, a monster storm, trees down, power out. Our friends in Connecticut experienced that one week ago, and still 50,000 of them are without power.

And they're angry. No, they're furious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm running out of words to describe how furious I am about it. This has been hideous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm furious. This is ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she should be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We've been without heat since Saturday. The house is cold. And where are the trucks? Where are they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Connecticut Light and Power is apologizing profusely, but a big old "I'm sorry" doesn't really cut it when you're living in a cold, dark room.

Connecticut's governor is now calling for an investigation. Other states who can certainly relate are calling for something more. That would be accountability.

Maryland's Public Service Commission is now developing new standards for reliable service after power outages. I mean, how long is too long to be without power? Should consumers have to pay for electricity they're not getting, or are we coming down too hard on utility companies? After all, who can control Mother Nature's wrath on all those trees?

So, the "Talk Back" question today: Should utility companies be penalized for not restoring power in a timely manner?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your comments later this hour.

LEMON: Yes, ,shouldn't they have a contingency plan? Reroute this around this if this happens?

COSTELLO: It's not like there are -- like the storm is continuing and the roads are blocked. I mean, beautiful, clear, cold days. Why aren't they there fixing things?

LEMON: All right. Carol, thank you.

Carol's on it. We want to figure that out.

Thank you, Carol Costello.

COSTELLO: I am on it. LEMON: We appreciate that.

Day two of deliberations is under way right now in the Michael Jackson death trial. Jurors deciding if Jackson's doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, administered a fatal dose of the powerful anesthetic Propofol.

Criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Holly Hughes is here.

So, Holly, jurors deliberated more than seven-and-a-half hours on Friday. No verdict, they are back at it again.

Are you surprised that the verdict wasn't reached quickly? And what does this say, if anything, about the case?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think all it says is that the jurors are taking it very seriously.

You've got to remember, Don, this is about four weeks of testimony and over 200 exhibits entered by the prosecution alone. So what they're doing is they're looking at everything that's been entered, they're back there. The judge gave them the packet of instructions which is the written law.

They're going through that law and saying, how do the facts that were entered into evidence here through testimony and exhibits, how do they match up with this particular charge? Did the prosecution prove it?

So I actually think it's a good sign. You don't want them to rush.

We saw the O.J. case was nine months of evidence and then a three-hour verdict. You know, we're all thinking, you couldn't possibly have gone through it. So I think this is a really deliberative jury. They are looking at what they need to.

And let's face it, I think the Casey Anthony case taught us one thing -- there is a very chilling effect when it's a big public trial and the public doesn't like your verdict. So these folks have learned a lesson, they are taking it seriously. They are going to do what they need to do to come up with the right verdict.

LEMON: And having been in the courtroom watching, they are all taking copious notes. They're a very attentive jury.

What I'm wondering is, who do you think has made a better case, the defense or the prosecution?

HUGHES: I think the prosecution, because you're only as good as your facts. And you can't manufacture them.

I mean, when you get into court, you've got what happened. And all you can do is present it for the witnesses.

So I think the prosecution had a lot more to work with. When you look at everything that -- Dr. Murray did not keep medical notes, or medical charts or records, but only for the two months he was administering the Propofol. He had notes and records from before that, medical charts before that. But when you get to that two-month period, why not?

I mean, God forbid something happened, like did here. If another doctor comes in behind you, you want them to be able to pick up that chart and say this is the history, this is what he's on.

And you look at fact that Dr. Murray was on the phone with three or four different people during the time that Michael was losing his life, not able to breathe, and ultimately he's the one who's responsible for that. Even if Michael Jackson pushed the Propofol himself, which is what the defense is trying to say, Dr. Murray should never have left a patient who he claims was addicted in the room with access to it. So I think the state did a really good job of bringing those points out.

LEMON: And as we've been saying, the verdict could come in at any time. It really could come at any time. And most people expect they're going to deliberate, but not for that long. So, really, any time now.

HUGHES: Absolutely. It's going to be breaking news, Don, because think about it. There is only one charge, so they really have to look at the elements of that one charge only.

LEMON: And the sentence, what he gets, that's going to be -- that's interesting as well.

HUGHES: Well, see, that's it, because the max here, even if he's found guilty for a dead body, the max is only four years. And even if the judge gives that to him, the Board of Pardons and Paroles can let him go at any time. It's not a minimum mandatory time in prison.

LEMON: Wow.

HUGHES: Yes.

LEMON: Wow. So interesting. Holly Hughes, thank you very much.

The Greeks lived the good life, but now the bills are due. Did generous government benefits help put the country in the hole? We'll compare taxes and retirement plans for Greeks and Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The financial crisis in Greece affects what happens with your money, including things like your 401(k). Greece is being forced to do a lot of belt-tightening to control its debt, but you may not be all that sympathetic when you look at how the country got into so much trouble.

Alison Kosik, from the New York Stock Exchange now.

Alison, you've been comparing benefits for workers in Greece and here in the U.S. Let's start with retirement benefits.

What did you find?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK. So, one of the things we found was that Greece, Don, has one of the most generous Social Security systems in the developed world.

You look at numbers from the OECD -- that's the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development -- it found the average worker in Greece gets $30,000 a year in Social Security benefits. Yes, you can live on that, but if you look at the average worker in the U.S., that average worker gets $15,000 a year. And for many, clearly that's not enough to maintain their quality of life, but a different story in Greece -- Don.

LEMON: Let's talk about taxes. A big problem in Greece is that the government doesn't have enough money to pay its bills. But don't the Greek people, but don't they pay taxes?

KOSIK: They do pay taxes, Don, but they only pay a small percentage of their income in taxes. If you look at this, the average worker's income tax in Greece is 2.8 percent. In the U.S., we take 15.3 percent. Remember, taxes are usually the main source of revenue for any government. It really shows why Greece is drowning in debt. Clearly it is not much money that they are bringing in as far as taxes go.

LEMON: Another issue too, Alison, the retirement age in Greece is on the low side.

KOSIK: Yes. It is. In Greece you're 65 years old when you can retire. Here in the U.S. you are 67. Sure, it is not a huge difference. But with Greece, there are a lot of loop hopes. Like if you have a dangerous or labor-intensive job you can retire early. So, let's say are you a coal miner or you're a member of the bomb squad. You can retire early.

And get this -- if you're a hair dresser, that can be considered dangerous work because you work with chemicals. Same as a massage therapist. So, what you get here are many workers retiring in their 50s so they're retiring early and tapping into that benefit system much, much earlier than, let's say, we do here in the U.S. Don?

LEMON: All right. Alison Kosik, thank you.

Since the recession, young adults aged 24 to 34 have moved around less, but many continue to relocate to different cities. So, we want to ask you, what cities are American -- America's young adults moving to? The answer may surprise you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Just before the break we asked you what cities are America's young adults moving to? Denver, Colorado comes out on top with more than 10,000 moving there between 2008 and 2010. Houston is second with more than 9,300. Then there is Dallas, more than 8,700. Seattle with almost 7,500. And rounding out the top five, Austin, Texas with more than 7,000 young adults flocking to that city.

Okay. Why don't we go to New York now? And Rockland County, New York, specifically. These pictures courtesy of our affiliate WABC. This is happening over the -- on the Tappanzee Bridge. This guy is hanging 75 feet below the bridge. He's somehow rigged a ladder with a rope and sign that his sort of swinging there above the water. Here's what the sign says. It reads, "Rockland Executive Legislature cover-up retaliation." And if you wanted attention, he certainly got it. I'm sure the legislature's like, "oh, my gosh, I can't believe this guy is on national television with this."

So, it worked for him. We're covering him, we don't know how he is going to get down. We don't know what rescuers plans are, investigators or what have you. But he is still up there. We're going to cover it and see what happens. So stay tuned.

Meantime, in Mississippi, it is a battle over when life begins. The so-called Personhood Amendment considers a fertilized human egg a person. And what voters decide tomorrow could ban abortions make in-vitro fertilization treatments more difficult.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN WHITE, "MISSISSIPPIANS FOR HEALTHY FAMILIES": I'm calling voters like yourself this evening to urge you to vote no on Initiative 26. It's just too extreme for Mississippie.

GOV. HALEY BARBOUR (R), MISSISSIPPI: I struggled with it. I had some concerns about it. Have some concerns about it. But I think all in all, I believe life -- I know I leave life begins at conception. So I think the right thing to do is to vote for it, which is what I did this afternoon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOOBIN: Jeffrey Toobin is our senior legal analyst. We want to bring him in now. A lot at stake here, Jeffrey. So, what do you see happening if this measure passes?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Don, I'm usually wary of making categorical statements like this, but this personhood law in Mississippi is unconstitutional under current law. There is just no doubt about it. The Supreme Court in 1992 said that states - they can regulate abortion, they can put in limits, but they cannot ban abortion. That's quite clear, and they have re-affirmed that in recent years.

What Mississippi appears to be doing is they are betting that the Supreme Court will somehow change its mind. There have been some changes in personnel on the court since then, but I don't think that's going to happen. I think this is going to be a symbolic statement. It is going to be struck down by the courts. But it just registers how much people in Mississippi are concerned about the issue of abortion.

LEMON: So, you don't even think it will get as far as the Supreme Court? You're saying it is just unconstitutional. Right?

TOOBIN: You know, it will go to a federal district court first, it will be appealed to a circuit court. I don't even think the Supreme Court will take this case because I think the law is so clear on this.

And this goes even beyond any law that's passed before, because as you mentioned, if you -- if the law states that a human being -- an embryo is a human being, it raises all sorts of questions about whether in-vitro fertilization can be considered an unlawful act and it even raises the possibility that some forms of birth control are illegal . So, this goes well beyond anything that any state has passed before.

LEMON: Then if it is likely to be struck down, then why propose it in the first place?

TOOBIN: I think there is a lot of anger in the country about the issue of abortion. The Supreme Court has been the target ever since Roe v. Wade in 1973, which is the first decision that said states couldn't ban abortion. People want to make symbolic statements. And they want to say that they are outraged about the current state of the law.

But the law is what the law is. I don't think it's changing, and I think this is really a symbolic statement about how much at least some people want to ban abortion.

Interestingly, as I understand the polls, they're actually very close on this issue. A lot of the groups that are traditionally anti- abortion, Roman Catholic groups, right-to-life organizations, are actually opposed to this because they think it is a loser.

LEMON: Jeff, I saw you on the web cam. We like you on the web cam, but I think you look great in the studio.

TOOBIN: Well, thank you. I recognize this is a better technology.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Good to see you, my friend. Thank you very much.

TOOBIN: All right, Don. See you.

LEMON: Now to an issue that's close to home. Refinancing. With mortgage rates at all-time lows, you may be wondering now if it is the right time. Well, in our "Smart Is the New Rich" series, Christine Romans chats with the experts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Bob, you got a formula for me. What's your refinancing formula? BOB MOULTON, PRESIDENT, AMERICANA MORTGAGE GROUP: It's very simple, Christine. You have to look at what it's going to cost you to refinance. If you have a $200,000 mortgage, and you are going from 6 percent to 4 percent, you're going to save about $200 a month. If it costs you $4,000 to close that refinance, you're going to be even at about 20 months.

So you have to ask yourself, are you going to be in the house for 20 months? If the answer is yes, you refinance. If the answer is no, don't refinance. Don't waste the money. Don't spend the money.

ROMANS: There you go. It also depends on how long you have on the term of the loan, right?

MOULTON: Exactly.

ROMANS: The more time you have on that loan, the longer you think you'll be in the property, the more sense it makes to refinance.

MOULTON: Right. A lot of people, too, are reducing their term. I mean, people who have 6 percent, 30-year fixed are coming down to a 3.25, 15-year fixed rate mortgage. They're knocking or 12, 13, 14 years off their mortgage. There's a lot to be said for that.

ROMANS: But this doesn't magically happen overnight. You have to do steps, Lynnette, to make yourself ready for this process.

LYNETTE KHALFANI-COX: That's right.

You've got to get that credit together. That's one of the key points right now. Check your FICO credit score. Myfico.com is the place to go for that. Get those credit reports. Go to annualcreditreport.com.

ROMANS: That's free.

KHALFANI-COX: That's free to do that there, obviously. Dispute any mistakes you have in the credit reports. Spruce that stuff up.

Saving money. This matters, too. Banks like to see cash reserves on hand. They don't want to feel like oh, we're going to lend to somebody who's cash strapped, living paycheck to paycheck, or if they happen to lose their job, won't be able to make the mortgage payment and float it for three months. You have to do some preparation there to get yourself ready.

ROMANS: What are some of the mistakes that people commonly make?

KHALFANI-COX: The biggest mistake, by far and away, is a failure to shop around. If I had one bit of advice.

ROMANS: Really?

KHALFANI-COX: Oh, absolutely.

ROMANS: See, I'm thinking of doing this. I just called up the person who's got my mortgage.

KHALFANI-COX: And I bet you were going to go with your existing lender, right?

ROMANS: That seemed easy.

KHALFANI-COX: See, and that's the path of least resistance and that is the path that is most expensive, as well.

ROMANS: OK.

KHALFANI-COX: Get online. Do some comparison shopping. Go to HSH.com. This is a great resource for your viewers. HSH.com. It's a free resource where you can mortgage comparison shop. You can find out the best rates and what's out there and available for you. You've got to make these banks compete for your business. Your existing lender, frankly, doesn't have much motivation to lower your interest rate from, say, X to X-minus 1 percent. They've already got you in a contract for 30 years or whatever, right?

So make them compete. A mortgage broker is another option. Somebody who can help you to shop around.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It's hard to believe 20 years ago today basketball legend Magic Johnson made an announcement that stunned America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EARVIN "MAGIC" JOHNSON, FORMER BASKETBALL PLAYER: Because of the HIV virus that I have attained, I will have to retire from the Lakers as of today. I just want to make clear, first of all, that I do not have the AIDS disease, because I know a lot of you are -- want to know that, but the HIV virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, Johnson is still HIV positive, but he has managed to keep his condition from developing into full blown AIDS. Our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is joining us here.

Can you imagine the strength and the courage it had -- that he had to deliver to go out and say that.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

LEMON: And you heard the people in the room, hello, oh, my gosh, this is what's happening.

COHEN: Right. I mean, we forget now that in 1991 what an incredible stigma there was.

LEMON: Yes.

COHEN: So for a celebrity like him to get up and say, I have HIV, that took a lot of guts.

LEMON: Even now. Even now there's still a stigma. It's twenty years ago, yes.

COHEN: Even now. Even now, that's true. Even more then.

LEMON: How's he doing 20 years later?

COHEN: You know, by all accounts he's doing great. He told the "L.A. Times" this weekend, he said, "I'm not cured, but the HIV is asleep deep in my body." That's how he put it.

LEMON: What's been his secret to survival, do you think, and good health? Is it a secret?

COHEN: You know, he was -- good luck is really what the secret is. He was fortunate twice. One, he was diagnosed very early. He had an insurance physical that showed that -- when they gave him a blood test and it showed that he had HIV, so they caught it very quickly. And so that he could get treatment very quickly.

And then he was fortunate again because the anti retro viral drugs, the drugs that saved so many people, were invented just a matter of -- you know, a couple of years after his infection.

LEMON: Yes.

COHEN: And he actually got them -- so he was diagnosed in '91 and he went on those drugs in '94, about a year and a half before the general public went on them.

LEMON: Right.

COHEN: But even if it had been '96, he still likely would have been OK. But those drugs saved his life.

LEMON: And you said timing, because if it had been a few years before --

COHEN: Right.

LEMON: It would have -- before the drugs, who knows, right?

COHEN: Right. Right.

LEMON: But besides drugs, other advances, too, have been to his advantage?

COHEN: No necessarily to his advantage but to other people's advantage. There's more than a million Americans living with HIV. And the sad thing is that one out of five don't know it. And there have been these great advances in testing. You can get a test that takes 20 minutes. But people -- not enough people are doing it. If you're that one in five, you're doing yourself a disservice because you're not getting treatment and also you may be infecting others.

So if you go to cnn.com/empoweredpatient, we have a place where you can put in your zip code and find a place to get tested. If you think possibly you're HIV positive, you need to know. So go to cnn.com/empoweredpatient.

LEMON: Yes, and get tested. That's what everyone says, get tested, get tested, get tested.

COHEN: Get tested. Right, for yourself and for the people in your life.

LEMON: Yes, good information. Thank you very much.

COHEN: Thanks.

LEMON: I can't even believe it's been 20 years.

COHEN: Twenty years. I know, isn't it amazing?

LEMON: Wow. Glad he's doing well.

COHEN: I am too.

LEMON: Thank you.

All right, a Japanese-American joins the Navy to prove his loyalty to the U.S. and goes to war to defend his country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In World War II, all of us were -- there were seven brothers, seven soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But not all of the brothers ended up on the same side. The incredible story just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Civil War wasn't the only one where brother fought against brother. During World War II, seven brothers went to war, five for the U.S. and two against. In fact, one of them fighting for the U.S. believes he saw his brother's plane shot down. He shares his incredible story in today's "Veterans In Focus."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After Pearl Harbor they were united.

DON OKA, WWII VETERAN: For me, memory of the days when I was a soldier in World War II, all of us served. We were seven brothers. Seven soldiers. Five of us for United States and two against us because they were stranded in Japan when the war came. They were all American citizens, born here in the United States. World War II, I served, I was drafted and took basic infantry training. Army (ph) (INAUDIBLE) came, I was chosen to go to MIS (ph). It was a Japanese language school where the language specialists and we would translate, interpret and interrogate the prisoners.

Often I drew cartoons to make people laugh. These cartoons are drawn about young soldiers in there and it was about me.

(INAUDIBLE) I landed in 1944. And our job was to take care of the civilian casualties (ph) (INAUDIBLE) of Japanese and also Korean.

This is my younger brother, served in Japanese navy. He (INAUDIBLE) Islands when I was serving there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooting down Japanese planes.

OKA: I saw the plane, but I didn't know it was him, until after the war was all over. He died in the air (ph) bombing of Kenyan (ph) Island, Christmas Eve, 1944. Even today I sometimes think about it and what a waste. I wish he were alive.

Those brothers of mine didn't hate me (ph) and I didn't hate him (ph). We were brothers. We were just called to do the job. And we did it.

(INAUDIBLE) is important to me because the fact that they -- to say that they -- what we have accomplished.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Time now for our "Talk Back" segment. There's Carol.

People are sounding off. What are they saying?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they are. The question this morning -- or this afternoon now, should utility companies be penalized for not restoring power in a timely manner?

This from Bob. "These people work very long hours in horrible weather to clear downed lines to help their neighbors, friends and families. If they could do it faster, they would."

This from Ashley. If it takes a utility company a day or two in the case of a natural disaster, that's understandable. But there are cases when they have taken a few days for non-disasters incidents. All of these would have to be factored in. But, yes, there should be a penalty to utility companies that fail to do their job quickly and efficiently."

This from Holly. "I have an idea. Do what advance civilizations do, bury the power lines."

And this from Harry. "These companies work extremely hard to return services because for every second people are without power they are losing money."

Keep the conversation going, facebook.com/carolcnn. And thanks, as always, for your comments. Don will be back after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Live pictures now again from Rockland County. You can see workers are trying to get this man down off of the bridge. He's suspended there. This guy is really, really upset with the Rockland executive legislature because he says they cover up retaliation. That's what his sign is saying. And that's a picture of the bridge that he is apparently hanging over. We don't see him still there. Is he still out there? OK. All right. I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here a little bit later on in the week.

Let's go now to Randi Kaye right now. The NEWSROOM continues.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Don, thank you very much.