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Penn State Game Day Unlike Any Other; Berlusconi Bows Out; Penn State Child Abuse Scandal; R.E.M. on the End of R.E.M.
Aired November 12, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for joining us this evening.
After nearly a half century as the head football coach at Penn State and 61 years with the team, Joe Paterno has been reduced to this -- hiding from the media in the back of an SUV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Paterno returning to his home tonight after the first game in decades where he hasn't been head coach. And to top it off, his Nittany Lions lost to Nebraska by three points on Senior Day, the last home game of the season.
Paterno's son Jay is still an assistant coach. He broke down after fielding ESPN reporter post-game questions. It was the first game since the child sex allegations changed everything for the team, the school, and the country.
Before kickoff, both teams gathered together midfield and prayed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Father God, we thank you so much. We thank you that you've chosen us to be here this day at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: They took a knee and prayed for the eight alleged young victims of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, now 67 years old and out on $100,000 bond. Some of the alleged victims as young as 10 years old.
And if you watched today's game, you saw the school's brand new president's taped message on getting past all this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODNEY ERICKSON, PRESIDENT, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY: We remain committed to our core values and we will rebuild the trust, honor and pride that have endured for generations. Please join me in this effort.
We are Penn State.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's take a live look now at the Penn State campus tonight. All appears to be normal and quiet, just one week after the scandal broke, a far cry from the violence that broke out Wednesday night when news broke of Paterno's firing. Student mobs rioted, turning over a news van, smashing car windows, newspaper boxes and clashing with police.
It was a game day unlike any other in Penn State's long history. Tears in the stands as generations of Nittany Lions' fans realized an era is over and a new uncertain future awaits their once revered program.
Let's take another live look now at the Penn State campus again where all of it appears to be quiet, again, one week after the scandal broke.
As a matter of fact, our very own Mary Snow reports on the happenings on campus today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a moment not witnessed by Penn State fans before. Instead of charging the field, players walked out arm in arm. Then silence. The moment follows the darkest chapter of Penn State's history with the arrest of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, accused of sexually abusing eight boys over a decade and a half. Fans joined players in remembering victims.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was different. It was very, very touching particularly the beginning of the game. Both teams came together, you know, embraced like that. It was awesome for the -- for the fans and the entire community.
SNOW: The somber tone was in stark contrast to the turmoil earlier in the week when legendary coach Joe Paterno was fired along with Penn State's president. The ouster followed questions about what wasn't done after allegations involving Sandusky surfaced in 2002.
Paterno had been at the helm for 46 years. His son Jay is a member of the coaching staff.
JAY PATERNO, JOE PATERNO'S SON: Dad, I wish you were here. We love you.
SNOW: Outside Paterno's home, fans gathered but Paterno didn't talk. While he isn't charged with anything, Paterno this week hired a criminal defense attorney. Sandusky, out on $100,000 bail, maintains his innocence. As the investigation continues, the football game was a welcome diversion, say some fans, after a tumultuous week. Penn State lost the game. While some critics think the game should have been canceled, Penn State's new interim president said it was worth playing.
ERICKSON: I personally felt that this was a time to play, but it was also a time when we could recognize and bring national focus to the problem of sexual abuse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Mary Snow joins us now live from the campus.
Mary, good evening. I can hear people behind you. I don't know if there are crowds out. I don't know what's going on. But what's the mood on campus tonight?
SNOW: You know, Don, it appears to be a typical Saturday night in a college town. Particularly here at State College. It has been fairly quiet. You know, a lot of people said that they just really didn't know what to expect going into today's game. But really the tone was set last night. We saw that vigil for victims of child sex abuse. We saw thousands of students coming out, really wanting to send a very strong message and, of course, that continued on the football field today.
And it's been very quiet. Of course, it's Saturday night, young college students are out. But really nothing out of the ordinary.
LEMON: Is this on their minds tonight or are they trying to at least carry on and move on as best they can?
SNOW: Yes, you know, Don, it's interesting, I talked to a couple of students earlier who said that they really welcomed the game today because they said for the first time, this entire week, it brought back a bit of normalcy. And they said that that would last for perhaps a day and they were kind of embracing just this diversion, but of course, this has been on their minds and some suggested like the first step towards healing.
LEMON: All right, Mary Snow, thank you very much for your reporting tonight. Penn State was missing another coach on the sidelines today, receivers coach -- receivers coach Mike McQueary.
McQueary was a graduate assistant in the 2002 when he reported seeing is Jerry Sandusky raping a young boy in a Penn State locker room shower. On one hand, he was one of the few people to speak up in the case telling Coach Paterno who then ran it up the school's chain of command.
But on the other hand, many questioned why McQueary didn't do more like call the cops himself. He was placed on administrative leave indefinitely after the school said he received death threats.
The alleged child sex abuse scandal unfolding at the school raising troubling questions about past suspicions surrounding former Coach Jerry Sandusky and how those were dealt with. The mom of one of the alleged victims spoke out on "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: And at some point he came to you and he said he wanted some information about how to look up sex weirdoes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think of that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I asked him who he was looking up and he said he wanted to see if Jerry was on there. And I said well, why would you look him up? And he said, I don't know. He's a weirdo.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Her son was not the first or only alleged victim. His case is key because he reported it and as a result, triggered this sex abuse investigation against Sandusky.
According to a grand jury, Sandusky allegedly victimized eight boys. As least one as young as 7 or 8 years old. Going as far as back as 1994.
We'll have a lot more on this story including a panel discussion in just a few minutes here on CNN.
In other news tonight, Republican candidates for president debate again. We'll hear from them next. And a promising young baseball player rescued from kidnappers in the jungles of Venezuela. You'll hear from him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Obama is in Hawaii tonight. He's hosting an economic summit with leaders from across the Asia-Pacific region. Now part of the agenda is looking at ways the United States can tap into Asia's economic potential. The summit begins a nine-day trip for the president that also includes stops in Indonesia and Australia.
Foreign policy was front and center tonight at the GOP presidential debate in Spartanburg, South Carolina.
I want you to take a listen as the candidates address the prospect of a nuclear Iran and other issues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One thing you can know, and that is if we re-elect Barack Obama, Iran will have a nuclear weapon.
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To give money to the -- to the rebel forces there, to help the pro-democracy movement and to put tough sanctions in place. HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Iran uses all oil not only as a means of currency but they use it as a weapon. The only way you can stop them is through economic means.
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maximum covert operations to block and disrupt the Iranian program including taking out their scientists, including breaking up their systems, all of it covertly, all of it deniable.
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I were president, I would be willing to use waterboarding. I think it was very effective. It gained information for our country.
JON HUNTSMAN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Waterboarding is torture. We delude ourselves down like a whole lot of other countries and WE lose that ability to project values.
CAIN: I would return to that policy. I don't see it as torture. I see it as an enhanced interrogation technique.
REP. RON PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Torture is illegal and -- by our laws. It's illegal by international laws. Waterboarding is torture. And --
ROMNEY: We have to have China understand that like everybody else in the world stage, they have to play by the rules.
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I happen to think that the communist Chinese government will end up on the ash heap of history if they do not change their virtues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, if it feels like Groundhog's Day it kind of is. This was the tenth time the candidates have squared off as they compete for voters' attention and dollars.
"Occupy Denver" protesters are looking for a new home tonight after police pushed them out of a downtown park. Officers persuaded about half of the campers to leave, but the rest stayed until they were removed.
Police said public safety was their primary concern. Several protesters vow to set up another camp overnight.
The Venezuelan government says a Colombian man possibly linked to paramilitaries may be the mastermind behind the kidnapping of Washington Nationals catcher Wilson Ramos. Ramos was rescued Friday night in a daring operation led by Venezuelan security officers -- security forces I should say.
They tracked the Major League star to a house in a remote mountainous region. Officials say security forces came under fire. They responded and rescued Ramos unharmed. Ramos spoke to reporters today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WILSON RAMOS, WASHINGTON NATIONALS CATCHER (Through Translator): I am very happy for the rescue operation they carried out. Very thankful to the government and the National Army. I didn't expect them. Where they were holding me captive was a very remote place, basically a jungle. And see, I was praying to god to bring me home safely to my family. And look at these guys, they risked their lives to save mine. And I am very thankful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Six Venezuelans are in custody for the kidnapping and an arrest warrant has been issued for the suspected mastermind.
Italians may not have a leader tonight but many have a reason to celebrate. The resignation of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi set off parties in Rome and other cities. Billionaire's behavior embarrassed many people while his leadership left the country on the brink of economic disaster.
Senior international correspondent Matthew Chance was in the middle of all that madness.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've just been -- we've just been told that Silvio Berlusconi has already departed the presidential palace, presumably he's now resigned formally.
The police are sort of vaguely trying to stop people coming to the square but it's not really working. You can see there are loads of people that have gathered here. Thousands of people have come out. They wanted to see the end of Silvio Berlusconi. His political career.
They've been shouting abuse, they've been jeering, they've been shouting mafioso, they've been calling for him to be arrested and put in jail. They've been calling him a joker, a fool. The insults have been hurling. And at one point it got quite aggressive. And so I think clearly the decision was made by the security around Silvio Berlusconi that it would have been wrong from his security point of view to take him through these crowds, some of them very angry indeed towards the man who has been so, so influential in their politics.
You can see now the anger that we witnessed earlier has turned to jubilation.
How does it feel now that Silvio Berlusconi --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, today is the freedom day. Today, this is the freedom, the liberation for Italy. Now I'm very, very, very most elated, really.
CHANCE: Why is there so much celebrations in the streets tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) twenty years. (CROSSTALK)
CHANCE: Talk louder. I can't hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been -- 20 years. Now it's time for a new politics.
CHANCE: You feel you've been prisoners for so long.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we can change with Monty, with political different politics.
CHANCE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Berlusconi was I think the key problem.
CHANCE: I keep asking people how they feel and obviously the mood is extremely positive. It's ecstatic, in fact. Obviously, there are going to be parties, celebrations in the streets tonight throughout the Italian capital.
People just feel this enormous sense of relief that after so many years of having Silvio Berlusconi in charge, they're now looking at a new political future.
Matthew Chance, CNN, in Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Up next, we will go back to Penn State. We've got an expert panel to discuss the sex abuse scandal. Don't go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Emotional day at Penn State as the football team hit the field for the first time since the child abuse scandal rocked the school. A moment of silence was held before the game in honor of the alleged victims.
And here to talk about the scandal and the long recovery ahead, a panel of experts for you.
Jon Wertheim is a senior investigative reporter with "Sports Illustrated," he is live at Penn State. In San Francisco, Tony Rodgers, a sexual abuse victim, and in Atlanta Julie Medlin, a psychologist and sex abuse expert, and the co-author of the book, "Avoiding Sexual Dangers."
Thanks to all of my panel for being here.
Tony, I want to start with you because we have been talking a lot about the accused, about football, about the coaches and the staff involved. Let's talk about being a survivor of childhood sex abuse.
How old were you? If you can tell me a little bit about your abuse. How old were you when you were abused?
TONY RODGERS, SEX ABUSE VICTIM: The first time I was 9 and it was by a stranger. And the second time I was 11. I was sexually assaulted by one of my male cousins.
LEMON: So this story resonates with you because you're around the same age as some of the alleged victims. When you heard about Penn State, what did you do? What did you think?
RODGERS: I really felt for the boys who were victimized by the assaults and, you know, especially also for the witness who the actually witnessed it and reported it and nothing was ever done. And it's unfortunate that the coaches' popularity preceded, you know, support for these people.
LEMON: Does it bring anything up in you? Does it remind you of anything? Is there anything that you have to do? Does it trigger anything, I guess, is a better way of putting it.
RODGERS: These stories are always triggering the person who assaulted me and even my own aunt, she decided to support her son instead of really listening to me and getting me help that I needed. And it's always triggering but when it pops up I just make sure I use the tools to help myself just to recover from listening to these type of stories in the news. It is very triggering.
LEMON: Yes. So I meant from what you're saying apparently one of your abusers was a family member.
Julie.
RODGERS: It was my cousin.
LEMON: Yes, your cousin.
LEMON: So Julie, some of the alleged victims are now in their 20s, almost 30 years old. And they might -- might they be dealing with the same sort of issues that Tony deals with when he said they are triggers and he has to use things in order to at least fight it or make it better?
JULIE MEDLIN, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, definitely. I think that when someone's been sexually abused, it can affect them for a very long time really for their whole lives. And anything that comes up in their environment that reminds them of something, some aspect of the sexual abuse, it could be the smell of cologne or it could a certain car, or it could be a certain place or a park, you know, wherever the abuse occurred could then trigger, you know, that flood of negative emotions about the sex abuse.
LEMON: Tony, you know, in the conversation we had before this, you said that there are certain triggers for you. One of them is smell, right? And then there are other things.
RODGERS: Yes. There are smells or it's sometimes it's cold drinks. I was infected with gonorrhea when I was 9 so I had to drink penicillin and I would vomit. So sometimes when I drink cold beverages it makes me sick.
LEMON: Yes.
When we come back, we're going to go to the campus of Penn State. Our Jon Wertheim is standing by and he's going to talk to us how the campus is dealing with this.
We're going to go deeper into this to talk about the cover-up, as well. Back with my panel moments away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Joining us again now our panel of experts.
Jon Wertheim, a senior investigative reporter with "Sports Illustrated" is live at Penn State. In San Francisco, Tony Rodgers, a sexual abuse victim and here in Atlanta, Julie Medlin, a psychologist and a sex abuse expert.
And I want to warn you, the viewer, that we are about to air some graphic content. These are the words of the grand jury report. There are eight alleged victims starting with victim one.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the course of the multiyear investigation, the grand jury heard evidence that Sandusky indecently fondled victim 1 on a number of occasions, performed oral sex on victim 1 on a number of occasions and had victim 1 perform or sex on him on at least one occasion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Jon Wertheim, you're there on the campus tonight. I mean, you look at -- those are -- that's just a small quote from this lengthy, lengthy report. And it goes on, it gets even more graphic. I mean quite honestly it talks about Sandusky having erections in the shower and those sorts of things.
And if it can be even worse than the graphic details of this, is the cover-up and you're on campus there tonight, what are -- what are students saying about this? Do they understand the gravity of this now?
JON WERTHEIM, SR. INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: Yes, I think they do. I mean apart from the sex crimes, you have this other prong which is classic who knew what, when did they know it. And I think the students realize this is not going away anytime soon. There are a lot of unanswered questions.
If you can make it through that gruesome grotesque report, you'll see that clearly people are lying. It's impossible that everyone is telling the truth. The stories just don't add up. The stories contradict themselves.
And I think the next prong of this is investigations and perhaps civil litigation that are hopefully going to figure out who knew what and when they knew it, because there are a lot of unanswered questions still.
LEMON: Yes. There were some who wondered why even have this game today. It should have been either postponed or canceled, and they wonder if it's a little odd to have this.
What's the sentiment there? I think -- I think -- I think they probably, it was either -- and I'm just sort of assuming here. It was either have McQueary step aside, have Paterno step aside, and -- go on with the game, which brings in a lot of money, or have them stay and postpone it and/or either cancel it and then still have to deal with why they covered it up.
WERTHEIM: Yes, I mean, this was debated here on campus. And I think what was finally decided is look, for the seniors, it was their last home game. For the players on this team who had nothing to do with this, a week ago none of them knew anything about these allegations. It would have been unfair to them.
The game was very strange in terms of atmosphere. I think a lot of people thought all these issues were going to crystallize, there would be protests, and really, it was just sort of a somber move. Penn State lost a close game but it really didn't feel heart-breaking. And in a way I think it brought this community together. But there was definitely discussions, is it appropriate to play football. I think the decision was, look, it's not fair to the kids on the team.
LEMON: Doctor, as someone who has worked with abuse victims, you heard what Jon said. Somewhere somebody is lying. We always say innocent until proven guilty.
When I talk to a psychologist and law enforcement -- I have a friend who works with the FBI, and this is what he does. He said there's never been victims who are in collusion with an accuser in this manner. Usually it's the other way around. People don't come forward. And Jon said clearly someone is lying.
You're shaking your head as he's saying that. What do you -- what do you think?
MEDLIN: Well, I agree. I read the same document. And I thought it was pretty obvious as well that it appears to be some type of cover- up, you know, that they basically didn't want to report it to the authorities because of how it would reflect on the school.
And unfortunately, that's very common in cases of sexual abuse, and that there tends to be a lot of denial even within families, that they don't want to admit to it and other organizations, as well.
LEMON: Real quickly, if you look at Jerry Sandusky who is the accused here, he has this charity. He always had boys around him. Is that sort of a classic person who is prone to this behavior or --
MEDLIN: Well, he certainly did a lot of things that are common among child molesters. LEMON: OK.
MEDLIN: Meaning that he got himself in a position of trust, and authority, and he got access to disadvantaged youth who would be particularly vulnerable.
LEMON: OK. OK. Tony, I want you to talk about this but I want you guys to listen to this. And again, this is very graphic.
Here's what Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary, now on administrative leave, says he witnessed in 2002. Again, it was very graphic. He witnesses in 2002 when he was a graduate assistant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He saw a naked boy, victim 2, whose age he estimated to be 10 years old, with his hands up against the wall being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately distraught.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Tony, you -- you were raped at you said 9 years old, right?
RODGERS: Yes.
LEMON: And if this is what he witnessed, this would be rape.
RODGERS: Yes.
LEMON: You would have wanted someone to come to your rescue?
RODGERS: Yes, definitely, if someone saw that, I would have wanted someone to believe what happened and believe what they saw and not to sort of defy or deny what they're actually seeing and I would want someone to, like, advocate for me and get help.
LEMON: Yes.
RODGERS: Especially when they see that I am being victimized.
LEMON: Yes. And as I -- you know, I wanted to show people what a 10- year-old boy, you just hear the words sometimes, a 10-year-old boy. A 10-year-old boy is a little boy. He's a kid.
So when you think about, oh, it's a 10-year-old boy. But, you know, there's the example of what a child looks like. And we all have nieces, nephews, children, brothers and sisters who are that age. So, it's horrifying.
I want you, guys, to stick around. We're going to talk about how you move on.
Tony, particularly, I want to know from you how the victims of abuse move on, how the other people who have been victimized by this -- students -- move on. And, Jon Wertheim, as well how the campus and the football program and the school moves on.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Penn State's new president is speaking out about the child abuse sex -- child abuse scandal that's rocked the school and the country.
Joining us again, our panel of experts, Jon Wertheim, senior investigative reporter with "Sports Illustrated" live from the Penn State campus. In San Jose, Tony Rodgers, a sexual abuse victim. And here in Atlanta, Julie Medlin, a psychologist and a sex abuse expert.
The new president spoke about moving past the scandal. Here's what he had to say tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODNEY ERICKSON, PRESIDENT, PENN STATE UNIV.: We remain committed to our core values and we will rebuild the trust, honor and pride that have endured for generations. Please join me in this effort. We are Penn State.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Jon Wertheim, you've, you're an investigative reporter. You've been covering this team for years, the Nittany Lions, Joe Paterno his legacy, all of that. How do they move on from a situation like this? And I don't need -- it's unprecedented.
JON WERTHEIM, SR. INVEST. REPORTER, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: It's unprecedented. I think what makes it difficult is that this is still going to unravel. I mean, there's still a lot of testimony. There are multiple investigations -- one of them federal. Again, there's going to be civil litigation.
If this were just one horrible act, I mean, one bad act and we could sort of move forward and memorialize it, that would be one thing. But this is an evolving fluid situation.
And I appreciate the president's sentiment. But, you know, there's a lot of discovery left in this scandal.
LEMON: Doctor, how does a nation move on from this? What's the lesson here? Is this -- is this a point where we can -- where people can learn about sex abuse, learn about silence, learn about possibly covering up -- how we deal with this, why we don't like to talk about it?
JULIE MEDLIN, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, absolutely. I think this is a perfect opportunity for us to learn more about sexual abuse. For parents to learn more about how they can try to take steps to protect their children from sexual abusers. You know, to educate our children about sexual abuse so that, you know, as soon as they start feeling their boundaries are being violated, that they will tell and that parents and other people will respond appropriately and report it.
LEMON: It is estimated that one in six young men is a victim of sexual abuse. There's an organization called oneinsix.org which, Tony, that organization helps you as an adult get through this.
So, for the victims here, how do they move on? What do you tell them, Tony?
TONY RODGERS, SEX ABUSE VICTIM: First, just know that it's not their fault and that they have to surround themselves with people who really love and support them, and they have to be willing to accept what has happened. You can't wish that it goes away, but just know that there's a place within you that's impenetrable and you have to really go to that place and use whatever tools you have available to really make sure you maintain your life and clean up the debris and residue from this situation whenever it pops up in your life.
LEMON: Since you had this opportunity --
RODGERS: You just have a good life.
LEMON: Since you have this opportunity tonight, is there anything, Tony, that you want to say to the country, to the people who are watching about the silence with this issue?
RODGERS: I think it's important when a child speaks up and when people are witnesses to a child being hurt, that they really speak up and seek help and advocate for the child. And sexual crimes are a violation of the human spirit. I equate it to murder.
So, if you are watching this, you're watching a homicide. Please help children get support and help and end it.
LEMON: Tony Rodgers, Julie Medlin, and, Jon Wertheim, thank you very much. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The art world is buzzing. For the first time in more than a century, a Renaissance painting has been authenticated as a genuine work of Leonardo da Vinci.
Jacqui Jeras, are you serious?
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Isn't it exciting?
LEMON: Yes. That is exciting.
JERAS: Well, it's on display to the public for the first time.
LEMON: OK.
JERAS: So, that's make it really exciting as well. The public's actually -- we have pictures of it. Take a look at it.
It's called the "Salvatore Mundi," you know, translated as "savior of the world," and it's a figure of Jesus Christ holding an orb.
But there is a ton of mystery which is surrounding this painting for a number of reasons. There are a lot of skeptics out there that say could this really be a Leonardo or isn't it?
All right. Well, a couple of things that we do know about this painting. We'll take you back in history. He originally painted this for the king of France in the early 1500s, OK?
Since that time, we know at one point, it was cataloged to exist and belonged to King Charles I, the son of the duke of Buckingham. And as recently as 1900, it was purchased by Sir Frederick Cook. But what happened to it after that point? Nobody knew.
So, it was missing for all of this time. There are known that there are 20 copies of this thing. And, all of a sudden, it pops up in 2005, a group of U.S. art dealers say, hey, we think we've got an original Da Vinci.
LEMON: Pretty cool.
JERAS: Of course, they analyze it from a panel of people. Here's why they say it's a Da Vinci is you look at the back of it. OK, obviously it's deteriorated over the years and they can see some of the original sketchings on the back. They didn't see that on the other 20 copies.
In addition to that, they matched up some of the pigments from this painting and some of Da Vinci's other paintings and say they match-up. So they authenticated it earlier this year. It's on display.
LEMON: So, they have their you know what together on this. They know what it is. All right.
JERAS: It's worth about $200 million by the way.
LEMON: All right. Do you remember this? To the moon, Alice.
JERAS: To the moon.
I remember one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
LEMON: Oh, look at that.
JERAS: We're talking about the moon here tonight. And so this goes all the way back 40 years to landing on the moon. You know, 1969 in July. Not only did man walk on the moon but they also took samples from the surface of the moon and brought them back to here in the U.S.
They analyzed them and found out that the moon rocks had magnetic properties. They're like what? This has been baffling them all of this time because the moon doesn't have a magnetic field.
LEMON: OK.
JERAS: The earth has a magnetic field.
And here's why. They I've got this avocado. I got this in the restaurant downstairs.
LEMON: Oh, my God.
JERAS: I know. But it kind of helps explain the structure of the earth, right?
LEMON: Right.
JERAS: So, we have our solid inner core. The meat here, that's the hot magma of the earth. And then we've got our outer crust. And because the earth spins, that creates motions and creates a magnetic field.
Now, the moon is just one big chunk, one big hunk of rock basically and it doesn't spin. It's too cold to have some of these properties so they're like, why is it then that there could be magnetic properties in these rocks.
So, they've got a theory now as to why this happened. Basically, they're saying a huge the size of mars crashed into the earth and a big chunk of it came off and they think the moon used to be much closer to the earth than it is now. In fact, maybe twice as close as it used to be. It cooled over time.
So, you can see how it could have the magma in it originally but it has to do with the tides. They think the tides, the pull between the earth and moon was enough to move the crust of the moon and make that magnetic field.
LEMON: Do you ever think of being a science teacher? It's cool, isn't it?
JERAS: Kind of complex, but it's cool, isn't it?
LEMON: You're a great meteorologist. But I think you could have been a science teacher. It took me back.
JERAS: Well, there's a little science involved there, as well.
LEMON: It went over my head. I'll study for the tests like I did in high school.
JERAS: All right. We'll talk about it later.
LEMON: Thank you, Jacqui. We appreciate it.
I have a statistic for you that might surprise you. Fewer than 1 percent of U.S. airline pilots are African-American. One man hopes to change that. Julius Alexander has been sharing his love of flying with minority teens for more than 30 years. It's today's what matters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JULIUS ALEXANDER, FOUNDER, AVIATION CAREER ENRICHMENT: Where's my pilot? Are you ready? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
ALEXANDER: OK.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Julius Alexander knows the power of flight and is using it to inspire young African- Americans.
ALEXANDER: Most of the kids, especially minority kids, think of entertainers and athletes as their superstars. What I wanted to do is to get young black kids involved at an early age in aviation.
MALVEAUX: Alexander is a pilot and former teacher. He combined his passions in the 1980s and founded ACE, Aviation Career Enrichment.
ALEXANDER: When you wear that shirt and those khaki trousers, you're representing us.
MALVEAUX: The Atlanta-based organization uses flight training to sharpen kids' academic skills and expose them to careers in aviation.
ALEXANDER: We use aviation as a capsule of learning. Aviation has a very practical application in all of academic disciplines. When we're teaching navigation, we're teaching geography. When we teach meteorology, weather, we're teaching earth sciences. And it goes on and on and on.
MALVEAUX: Students not only gain technical skills, but also self confidence.
ALEXANDER: When a student solos an airplane, that develops tremendous self-esteem in that individual. If you can fly an airplane, you can do anything.
RAY JHAN BATHUNE, ACE GRADUATE: You walk away with more than aviation skills.
MALVEAUX: Ray Jhan Bathune knows this firsthand. He learned how to fly and is now an ACE instructor.
BATHUNE: There's a wealth of knowledge that you gain here at ACE. It's focused on making you into a better person overall and going into the real world.
MALVEAUX: Alexander says seeing that transformation gives him a sense of pride.
ALEXANDER: My greatest reward is producing pilots, seeing that 16- year-old kids go up and make a solo flight. I have changed somebody's life. When these students go out and they succeed, I know that none of this has been in vain.
OK, field selectors on both.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Alexander says he has personally trained at least 15 students who have gone on to become professional pilots.
Coming up --
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
LEMON: After 31 years and 85 million albums, R.E.M. is breaking up. Why? Hear answers from the musicians themselves.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We are on countdown to a music milestone. In three days, R.E.M. releases its last album ever. It's got a long name to reflect the 31 years R.E.M. has thrived in an industry notorious for one-hit wonders.
CNN's Shanon Cook interviewed the band on why it's over for REM.
And, Shanon, the cynic in me has to ask, do you think this is all a publicity stunt?
SHANON COOK, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: You old cynic you. You know, I can understand why people might say that, but for a publicity stunt for R.E.M. just seems so unlike them. But I guess only time will tell.
In the meantime, here's part one of my interview with Michael Stipe and Mike Mills.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
COOK: This isn't really a dramatic breakup, is it? It's really just the end of the road for R.EM.?
MIKE MILLS, BASSIST, R.E.M.: It's the end of the road for R.E.M.
MICHAEL STIPE, LEAD SINGER, R.E.M.: As we know it. Sorry.
MILLS: As a touring and recording entity. You know, R.E.M. will continue to exist in our catalog and our music. But as far as creating more stuff, no, that's the end.
STIPE: Between the three of us, we kind of arrived at it at the same time. You can go into the blogosphere and everyone has their opinion of when R.E.M. should have or might should have broken up.
But we didn't even call it breaking up. We disbanded.
There's no animosity. There's no weirdness. There's no lawyers squaring off between us. We love each other and have huge respect for each other.
We just reached a point where it didn't feel like it made sense to carry on any further. And we happened to do that at a very high point in a 31-year career of highs and lows. (MUSIC)
COOK: Why quit? Like, why not just take a break and then just tour when you feel like it?
MILLS: Because if you do that, then you've got constant questions about when's your next record, when's your next tour -- and in a way, that would inhibit whatever it is we plan to do going forward.
STIPE: I think it would turn everything else in our life into a sideshow. People would say, when are you going to do the next R.E.M. record or tour. And for ourselves, I think we needed and wanted that closure and that clarity.
COOK: So how do you feel about this? Do you feel sad? Are you relieved?
MILLS: Certainly, there's sadness. You know, it's bittersweet by all means, but --
STIPE: The feelings go from here to here. We're feeling every one of them.
MILLS: Right. But not relief, though, because relief implies like we're escaping something. It certainly isn't that.
There is -- the word that popped into my head, there is an odd feeling of liberation.
(MUSIC)
MILLS: It's a liberation, it's a clean break and a chance to move forward.
COOK: So, what do you do now?
STIPE: I took a deep breath the day of the announcement of our disbanding and I just thought, now what? Where -- what do I do now? I couldn't answer it for myself.
So I decided to be very honest with everyone I spoke to about it and say I have no idea. I really don't know. But I'm going to take a sabbatical for a couple months or longer, and whatever I do, you'll know about it I hope.
COOK: So a massive comeback tour, never say never?
STIPE: Never say never, of course. But we're not going to do it.
COOK: That's kind of a never.
STIPE: If we ever did, we would tell you exactly why. And it would be because one of us for one reason or another really needed money. But I don't -- I don't see that happening at all. I mean, it is funny but we're being really honest by saying it's over. We love each other. We love what we did. It's done. (MUSIC)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOK: And you may have noticed that the third member of R.E.M., Peter Buck, was missing from that interview. He's actually touring with singer John Wesley Harding at the moment.
And, Don, coming up in part two of the interview, we get foot music of R.E.M. and the guys reveal which songs are on their minds as they go through this pretty big transition.
LEMON: Awesome. That's right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Before calling it quits for good, R.E.M. has given fans what you could call its swan song.
(MUSIC)
LEMON: We all go back to where we belong is one of three new pieces of the final album that features R.E.M.'s hits from the 31 years of performing together.
CNN's Shanon Cook sat down with the band to talk about the music that meant the most to them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOK: What is R.E.M.'s legacy?
STIPE: That's not for us to decide. It's for people who love music hopefully to decide what our legacy is.
COOK: Then what has been your greatest accomplishment as a band?
STIPE: We did it our way.
MILLS: That's exactly right. If there were part of a legacy that we could actually fairly speak ourselves, it would be that we showed people that there are more ways than one to become successful. In other words, you can do it on your own terms. There are a lot of people that try to tell you, you have to do this, this, this and this.
STIPE: We started with this idea of what it is to sellout. We came from punk rock and the whole do it yourself pre-alternative music, pre-college radio, all the -- all of our philosophies come from punk rock. So, we had what R.E.M. called the role of no, which were all the things we knew we didn't want to do, all the things that really make bands or tragic and make them kind of suck.
And so, we were trying very hard not to suck for a long time.
(MUSIC) COOK: In the line of your "Retrospective" album, Michael you wrote, "Thank God we have always had each other to convince ourselves how wrong and right we can be." Are you going to miss that energy?
STIPE: What I'm going to miss is being on stage with these guys. That's going to be the hardest thing as a performer, as a live performer, that charge, that surge of energy that we get from an audience is something that I don't think I can repeat outside of or after R.E.M. I don't think I'll ever feel that again, to the degree that I felt it with these guys.
COOK: Can each of you tell me which song from your extensive catalog means the most to you?
STIPE: Maybe not means the most but I've been thinking a lot about a song called "Supernatural Superserious."
(MUSIC)
STIPE: I took my desire to write a character with a narrative arc that is so outrageous. I took it as far as I could push it with that song. I'm really proud of it. And I think it's a kind of I -- I mean, I don't use the term rocking very much. But it's kind of a rocking tune.
MILLS: It does rock.
STIPE: Yes, it does.
(MUSIC)
MILLS: I think "Man on the Moon" captures all of the essential elements of R.E.M. I mean, it's beautiful. It's wistful. It rocks. It's in the present and yet nostalgic. Has great harmonies on it, great lyrics and even the video is one of the best we ever did.
So I'd throw that one out there if you had to just pick one thing to represent us, I wouldn't mind that being the song.
(MUSIC)
COOK: As you close the door on R.E.M., what do you want to say to your fans?
STIPE: Thanks for being there. Thanks for giving us this amazing, amazing opportunity to create music together and tour and really live a life that I only dreamed of as a teenager. It was a lot of hard work, but it was really worth it.
MILLS: It's true. I mean, some cliches exist for a reason, and we couldn't have done it without them.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Oh, Shanon Cook joins us now live from New York.
Shannon, you're taking me back to my youth with that music and the videos. Never say never. Will they reunite for a comeback tour?
COOK: You know, Don, I'm willing to bet this awesome leather jacket I'm wearing tonight, that at some point in the future, there will be some kind of R.E.M. reunion, maybe not a tour but a concert or a performance of some kind. I think there has to be.
LEMON: All right. Leather Tuscadero, thank you very much. We appreciate it, Shanon Cook.
That's it for us. Have a good night. Thanks for watching.
