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Gingrich Rising in Polls; Review of the Latest Republican Debate; Obama to Expand U.S. Trade; Perry Flubbed Debate; Bachmann Accuses CBS of Bias

Aired November 13, 2011 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. We're going to look at the 2012 presidential contenders in this political hour. But first, an update on some of today's top stories.

Occupy Portland protesters appear to be clearing out today. Although many demonstrators initially defied a midnight deadline to leave two city parks. They started drifting away as the day wore on. Portland officials say they will build fences around the parks to block demonstrators from returning.

And the president of Italy has nominated an economist to be the next prime minister. Mario Monti is a former European Union commissioner. If approved by Parliament, he will replace Silvio Berlusconi who resigned last night because of Italy's debt crisis.

And for first time since the tsunami last March, we can take you inside Japan's Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant. A team of journalists was allowed within the last 24 hours. There are still levels of radiation around the plant, but the reading is within safe levels. The tsunami followed a 9.0 magnitude earthquake, 15,000 people lost their lives.

Boxer Manny Pacquiao defended his World Boxing Organization welterweight title in a nail biter. He beat Juan Manuel Marquez by majority decision in Las Vegas last night. They went toe to toe for all 12 rounds. After the decision, Marquez left the ring apparently upset. His fans were upset as well. They, in fact, launched bottles and cans into the ring in response to the ruling.

We're about seven weeks now from the first presidential contest. Talking about the Iowa caucuses. So either the Republican hopefuls or all of them in fact are trying to kick it into high gear, explaining what they would do if elected. At last night's debate in South Carolina, here is how the top three contenders said they would handle Iran's nuclear threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So I do believe they have a nuclear weapons program and they're closer to having nuclear weapons, stopping them, the only way to stop them is through economic means. And there is one other thing we can do. We can deploy our ballistic missile defense capable aegis warships strategically in that part of the world. We have the biggest fleet of those war ships in the world and we can use them strategically in the event that they were able to fire a ballistic missile.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president should build credible threat of military action and made it very clear that the United States of America is willing, in the final analysis, if necessary, to take military action to keep Iran from having a nuclear weapon. Look, one thing you can know, and that is if we re-elect Barack Obama, Iran will have a nuclear weapon. And if we elect Mitt Romney, if you elect me as the next president, they will not have a nuclear weapon.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maximum covert operations to block and disrupt the Iranian program, including taking out their scientists, including breaking up their systems, all of it covertly, all of it deniable. Second, maximum coordination with the Israelis in a way which allows them to maximize their impact in Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Eight republican candidates on stage there. CNN political producer Shawna Shepherd was at that debate. She's joining us right now from Columbia, South Carolina. So Shawna, the candidates are really pushing their platforms and ideas pretty hard. It didn't seem, however, like the kind of debate where the candidates had gloves on fighting each other on foreign policy and national security. So was it Jon Huntsman, perhaps, the one with the most foreign policy experience as a former U.S. ambassador who kind of made the biggest impression?

SHAWNA SHEPHERD, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER: Governor Huntsman did well, but he didn't get called on as often as the other candidates. What stood out for me was how well prepared all the candidates were for this first debate, focused solely on foreign policy. All eyes were on Texas Governor Rick Perry, who after his embarrassing mental lapse at the last debate, Perry held his own, discussing nuclear weapons, terrorism, and foreign aid. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The foreign aid budget in my administration for every country is going to start at zero dollars. Zero dollars. And then we'll have a conversation. Then we'll have a conversation in this country about whether or not a penny of our taxpayer dollars needs to go into those countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHEPHERD: Zeroing out foreign aid to Pakistan, which receives billions of dollars from the U.S. in foreign aid, is popular among the Tea Party fiscal conservatives that make up the most active slice of conservative Republicans in South Carolina. Now, several of the candidates seem to agree with Governor Perry, even former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney said that aid to Pakistan should be re-evaluated. And so not only did Perry escape Spartanburg without another debate gaffe, he also helped drive news in the debate. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: OK. And so Shawna, Herman Cain, he had been rising in the polls for quite the distance, for quite a while, but he doesn't have a whole lot of foreign policy experience. So how well did he have command of the topics last night?

SHEPHERD: You're right, he does have very little foreign policy experience as a business executive, as a former pizza CEO. But he - he seemed to - he had a lot to prove last night. And it became clear that he read his briefing book and he made all the right - made all the right points, he just appeared nervous at times, wading into territory that is beyond his catchy 9-9-9economic plan. Cain said that he supports the use of waterboarding as an intense enhanced interrogation technique and opposes military action to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons if other strategies failed. That's a position supported by Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

GOP frontrunner Mitt Romney, he survived this debate unscathed. He's yet to suffer a kind of campaign altering blunder that national televised debates like these tend to encourage. So he seems steadily on top of the pack and is showing promise in in early states like South Carolina but certainly a number of the other candidates are trying to make their way to the top as well.

WHITFIELD: All right. Shawna Shepherd, thank you so much coming to us from Columbia, South Carolina.

So while the Republican candidates take swipes at President Obama, the president is talking trade and jobs right now. He's at the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit in Hawaii. And Mr. Obama is pushing for a new free trade agreement, the trans-Pacific partnership. It would include the U.S. and nine other countries and cover about one-third of the global economy. President Obama says it would create jobs in the U.S..

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is where the action is going to be. If we're going to not just double our exports but make sure that good jobs are created here in the United States, then we're going to have to continue to expand our trade opportunities and economic integration with the fastest growing region in the world. And that means, you know, in some cases some hard negotiations and some tough work as we went through in South Korea.

I think that was a great model of prioritizing trade with a key partner. It wasn't easy. I said at the outset that I wanted - I had no problem with seeing Hyundais and Kias here in the United States, but I wanted to see some Chevrolets and Fords in Seoul. And after a lot of work and some dedicated attention from President Lee, we were able to get a deal that for the first time was endorsed not just by the business community, but also was endorsed by the United Autoworkers and a number of labor unions. And that shows how we can build a bipartisan support for job creation in the United States and trade agreements that make sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: China is an Asian powerhouse. It is the world's second biggest economy after the United States. And it was part of the focus of last night's Republican debate in South Carolina. GOP front-runner Mitt Romney accuses China of unfair trade practices, and that drew a response from rival Jon Huntsman, a former U.S. ambassador to China. Here is what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: We need to make sure that we let them understand that in order for them to continue to have free and open access to the thing they want so badly, our markets, they have to play by the rules. They can't hack into our computer systems and steal from our government. They can't steal from corporations. They can't take patents and designs and intellectual property and duplicate them and counterfeit them and sell them around the world. And they also can't manipulate their currency in such a way to make their prices well below what they otherwise would be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You talk about all the things that China should be doing. How do you affect that as commander in chief? How do you make China do these things?

ROMNEY: Well, number one, day one, is acknowledging something which everyone knows. They're a currency manipulator. On that basis, we also go before the WTO and bring an action against them as a currency manipulator and that allows us to apply selectively tariffs where we believe they are stealing our intellectual property, hacking into our computers, or artificially lowering their prices and killing American jobs. We can't just sit back and let China run all over us. People say, "Well, you'll start a trade war." There is one going on right now, folks. They're stealing our jobs and we're going to stand up to China.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Huntsman.

Governor Romney just said we're in the middle of a war that we're not even declared or we're not even aware of and Governor Perry said China will end up on the ash heap of history. You've been in China. You were the ambassador for our nation there under President Obama. What is your reaction?

HUNTSMAN: Well, he reality is a little different, as it usually is when you're on the ground. And I tried to figure this out for 30 years of my career. First of all, I don't think, Mitt, you can take China to the WTO on currency related issues. Second, I don't know that this country needs a trade war with China. Who does it hurt? Our small businesses in South Carolina, our exporters, our agriculture producers. We don't need that at a time when China is about to embark on a generational transition. What should we be doing? We should be reaching out to our allies and constituencies within China. They're called the young people, they're called the internet generation. There are 500 million internet users in China.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to have to - HUNTSMAN: Eighty million bloggers and they're bringing about change, the likes of which is going to take China down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to have to leave it there, governor.

HUNTSMAN: We have an opportunity to go up and win back our economic manufacturing muscle. That's all I want to do as president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein with us now from New York and he's also the "National Journal's" editor and director. Ron, most of the Republican candidates bashing President Obama over his China policies, particularly on trade. You heard that exchange taking place too. Is this going to be an effective fight?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well it a fascinating argument that you - both of those clips to hear and a kind of a sweep of history here. One thing that is consistent in presidential campaigns, the outs always accuse the in president of being insufficiently tough on China. I remember Bill Clinton making similar arguments in 1992 and ultimately achieving a permanent most favored nations status with China. So that is on the one sense a very common line of argument that we're not doing enough to stand up to China. When you get in, you usually find that the relationship has so many irons in the fire, it is hard to take any one aspect of it like trade and make it a breaking point.

But in a broader sense, Fredricka, look at what you saw. Barack Obama who in 2008 as a candidate was talking about renegotiating NAFTA. Now not only is finished free trade agreements in South Korea, Panama, and Colombia but is talking about a vast expansion of free trade across the Atlantic while you have a Republican nominee basically saying he's willing to nominate a candidate willing to risk a trade war with China to declare them a currency manipulator. It's a sign at the center of gravity each party is shifting. We used to think of the Democrats as the party most skeptical of free trade because of the influence of organized labor, but now there are a lot of blue collar voters in the Republican Party and you see the pull of that, the skepticism about trade reflected in Romney who is probably talking a tougher line on China than really any Republican serious candidate that I can remember.

WHITFIELD: Well, I wonder, because there seems to be kind of a contagion on certain points of view. I wonder if that will end up being the contagion for the Republican candidates making China out to be the bad guy.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, in fact, China is a powerful symbol of something much larger. I mean there is a broad concern if you look at polling in the public, not surprisingly given the economy we're living through, that the U.S. is facing kind of a structural decline economically and that we're being passed by rising powers like China. That is very clear in polling, much as it was the concerns about Japan in the 1980s. So in argument that China is not playing fair with its currency and there are many serious economists who believe it is not, there is a big push in the Senate to have them declare a currency manipulator that has bipartisan support. So I mean there is an audience for that argument.

And of course, the administration, which is in power and as I said is dealing with all the totality of his very complex and difficult challenging relationship has not taken the step that Romney says he would on day one. It's not clear that if Mitt Romney was elected, that those same considerations might not still his hand a little more than he's suggesting right now as well.

WHITFIELD: So Ron, there is a trend in polling that concerns trade protectionism and party affiliation. And what is unusual here.?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, right. Well, like you said, I mean I think historically we think of the democratic party as the party that is more skeptical of free trade because of the influence of organized labor. But when you look at polling in the last couple of years, there is a big portion of the Democratic Party now that is much more open and supportive of free trade. They're winning a lot more upper middle class suburban voters who tend to have an internationalist orientation.

Whereas the Republican Party, the center of gravity is moving toward greater skepticism of free trade because they have been doing better among those blue collar working class voters who believe in many cases correctly that the loss of jobs overseas is a big part of the economic distress they face. So the center of gravity is shifting actually I think in some polling, there is more protectionist sentiment now among Republican core voters and among democratic core voters. That's a big change in our politics, part of an overall what I call a class inversion in the coalition that each party really brings to bear on elections now.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ron Brownstein, thanks so much. We'll check back with you a little bit later on in this hour, several times as a matter of fact. Thanks, Ron.

A week of gaffes and laughs from Rick Perry. We'll see how he handled that debate and that brain freeze.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back to this special hour of the "CNN Newsroom." We're taking this time out every Sunday to let you hear from the 2012 presidential contenders, uninterrupted, out on the campaign trail. Candidate Rick Perry is still in recovery mode, think back to midweek, that debate in Michigan for nearly a minute, the one- time front-runner had a bit of a brain freeze when talking about his own plan to shrink government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: And I will tell you, it's three agencies of government when I get there that are gone. Commerce, Education and the - what's the third one there? Let's see.

REP. RON PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Five.

PERRY: Five, OK. So Commerce, Education and the -

PAUL: EPA?

PERRY: The EPA. There you go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's talk -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seriously? Is the EPA the one you were talking about?

PERRY: No, sir. We're talking about the agencies of government - the EPA needs to be rebuilt. No doubt about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you can't name the third one?

PERRY: The third agency of government I would do away with, Education, the Commerce and let's see. I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry. Oops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, the moment it happened you just knew that the comedians were going to have a field day with this one. Take a look at how "Saturday Night Live" handled it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You still haven't named the third department.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't. Oh, I know, it's mard. That's not a word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, Maria, can we just move on? I want to be president, but not like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I don't need your help, OK? All three now. Commerce, oh, god, I only know one now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe you have it written down in your notes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good idea. Yes, yes. I'm such a messy Marvin. Boy, debates are hard, right, guys? It is a department that has zoos and parades. Might be that. No. Start with an M or an X. Is there an X in there maybe? Is it trains? No, you can't cut trains. Oh, man, there are so many departments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make it stop. Somebody make it stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really trying here, guys. I don't know what -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All his cards are blank.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, no peeking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Oh, no. All so painful. So through it all, the Texas governor has been a good sport about it. Before the debate last night in South Carolina, he and some of the other candidates had a little chuckle over it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: Yes, so tonight if I need a lifeline, I'm going to look to you, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll fill in the blanks.

PERRY: Saw the doctor after that episode. The doc leaned over and said, "You know, that's happened to everybody. He said, most of us haven't done it in front of four million people."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. So he kept them laughing during the debate as well. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Perry, you advocate the elimination of the Department of Energy. If you eliminate the Department of Energy -

PERRY: Glad you remembered it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've had some time to think about it, sir.

PERRY: Me too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Pretty good comeback there. Let's bring back our senior political analyst Ron Brownstein in New York. So Ron, you know, we have heard a lot of joking about Perry's memory lapse, how painful it is to see over and over again. So his camp came out with a written statement right away, calling it, you know, "a human moment." He was all over the morning shows smiling, saying he "really stepped in it." Is it all behind him, after "SNL," of course.

BROWNSTEIN: No. Short answer, no. I mean he's done as well as he possibly could to try of kind to minimize it or laugh about it, but I think he's going to prove again the most dangerous thing in politics is to confirm a pre-existing story line. If Mitt Romney had forgotten something, he might have been tired. But because Rick Perry already was facing doubts about his kind of command of his brief, and whether he was really someone who knew all the facts of what he was - his agenda and was capable of carrying the fight to President Obama in a general election, I think this is going to linger. You know, if Al Gore had misspelled potato, you know, people would not have been talking about it. When Dan Quayle did, he could not shake it because it confirmed that pre-existing story line. And I think unfortunately for Governor Perry, this does confirm that story line and leaves him, I think, it's going to be a problem him all the way through.

WHITFIELD: This is tantamount you think to the whole potato moment, even though Rick Perry is, you know, making fun of it, he's poking fun at himself. He's self (INAUDIBLE), sometimes it is very endearing.

BROWNSTEIN: No, I think he's doing as well as he can. But I think that the problem he's got is that there was a big chunk of the Republican electorate going into that moment, watching the earlier debates saying "I can't envision this guy carrying the banner against President Obama." Didn't you see how the Mitt Romney campaign helpfully pointed out after the CNBC debate that there are going to be three general election debates against President Obama. I think that is - that shadow is going to be there. Does it disqualify him? Maybe not. But it is going to be a reinforcing and perhaps enlarging the problem that he faced with Republicans who are uncertain about him as a nominee, even going into that.

WHITFIELD: Oh, maybe that's kind of underscored, even when you saw that cutaway at the debate last night. You know, Lindsey Graham was laughing but DeMint was not. That too was an awkward moment, just kind of reading the faces, people kind of (INAUDIBLE) should I laugh at this or not? All right. Ron, thanks so much. I'll see you again momentarily.

BROWNSTEIN: See you too.

WHITFIELD: So Michele Bachmann, she says that she didn't gain enough air time at last night's Republican debate and she's now bashing CBS News, accusing it of bias. We'll hear what she has to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. We continue to delve into the issues on the presidential campaign. Every Sunday we're spending this hour of the "CNN Newsroom" to allow you to hear from the contenders as they spell out their visions for the future of the United States.

Republican Michele Bachmann is fighting to get out in front in many ways. She's actually accusing CBS News of bias over last night's GOP debate in South Carolina. Her campaign was accidentally included in an e-mail from the network's political director saying Bachmann was largely irrelevant in the polls and would not be asked many questions in the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELE BACHMANN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know if was sent to anyone else, but each of the candidates are invited to come here. And each of the candidates have something to say. And I have something to say about foreign policy as well and I think it is only respectful to allow the candidates to be able to speak and not intentionally ahead of time make a decision to limit the candidate's opportunity to speak to the American people. This isn't about -- this shouldn't be about media bias. Clearly this was an example of media bias. This should be about an effort to get all of the information on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CBS' political director John Dickerson says "Bachmann is at four percent in the polls and has been for a while. Other candidates are not. I sent an e-mail based on that." That statement from the CBS political director. So two days before the South Carolina debate, protesters interrupted Bachmann while she was giving a foreign policy speech in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. The demonstrators were part of the Occupy Wall Street protests and here is how it unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: The Defense department is undertaking the first steps to trim $40 billion from its budget. If targeted carefully, those cuts can be made and in particular looks like they will be made over the next 10 years. But however, if the Pentagon will be forced to live within additional $600 billion in cuts as may happen as a result of the failure of the super committee to come to a realistic budget agreement in the next few weeks, then I believe that we will do very significant damage to our military capabilities and I stand against that action.

We can make cuts, but they have to be made strategically and not randomly on a political whim. We can accomplish significant reductions in spending by cutting wasteful federal spending. Yes, there is some, even in the Defense Department, including unnecessary Pentagon programs and an often dysfunctional procurement system. They need to be called out. One major reform in the procurement system we can make immediately is to change from a cost plus contracting to fixed price contracting. Let me talk about that. American consumers, for instance -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will only take a minute.

GROUP: This will only take a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a message for Miss Bachmann. GROUP: We have a message for Miss Bachmann.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blaming (ph) people that disagree with you.

GROUP: Blaming (ph) people that disagree with you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unpatriotic. GROUP: Unpatriotic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down!

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, everyone, for your patience. Don't you love the first amendment? We have a great country and I want to thank you, all, for your understanding. God bless you. Thank you for this.

We are here because we love this country. And we want it to be better. And we love our military men in service. We respect them. We admire them. And we're here to talk about how our military can be stronger and better in the future, aren't we? That's why I'm here. So thank you. Thank you for standing strong. I appreciate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Straight ahead, racing toward the front of the pack, Newt Gingrich.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to this special hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. We're focusing on politics allowing you to hear from the 2012 presidential contenders. One candidate who is rising in the polls is Newt Gingrich. He's been gaining support following each debate, mostly because of his strong debate performances. Here he is, last night, speaking about enemy combatants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you engage in war against the United States, you are an enemy combatant. You have none of the civil liberties of the United States. You cannot go to court. Now --

(Applause)

Let me be very clear about this. There is a huge gap here that frankly far too many people get confused over. Civil defense, criminal defense is a function of being within the American law. Waging war on the United States is outside criminal law and is an act of war and should be dealt with as an act of war. And the correct thing in an act of war is to kill people who are trying to kill you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's bring back a senior political analyst and national journal editor director Ron Brownstein. So is it debate performance that is behind Gingrich's surge?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Largely and also the fact that this moving finger keeps moving on. If you look at the Tea Party side of the party, in the polling, the people who are sympathetic to that movement, they do not want Mitt Romney. He's running poorly with them in every state. And at various points this year, Fredricka, those voters have kind of lighted on Mike Huckabee, Donald Trump, Sarah Palin none of them ran, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry and more recently Herman Cain.

And now if you look, Gingrich is clearly getting a look from them. He's a sharp debater. He has been an intellectual and political force in the Republican Party in five different decades. When we started the race, we were assuming that was going to make it very difficult for him because the Republicans would be looking for a fresher face. He still has lots of hurdles and really consolidating this to become a serious challenge and a Romney, he's just beginning to organize a ground game in Iowa and South Carolina.

But there is the reality that there is a big chunk of the party, the more conservative, the more evangelical side of the party that does not want Mitt Romney and has simply not been able to settle on an alternative. So Gingrich is now getting his day in the sun.

WHITFIELD: So he's kind of a benefactor of all this, but it is not necessarily because he's changed his strategy or message.

BROWNSTEIN: Mm-hmm. No, I think -- look, I think he has been a consistent performer. He has a very interesting strategy in the debate. He's kind of almost been a defender of the Republican field against the news media and kind of rally that anti-mainstream media segment of the Republican Party. Again, the more conservative side that would respond to an argument like that. He's been very consistent all the way through. So he has kind of stood out that way.

I don't think we have heard enough yet about his agenda and his domestic agenda. He hasn't really come through in the debates. He is starting to make an argument, all though he chose not to repeat it last night to my colleague, national journal colleague Major Garrett, that Romney is more of a manager, he is more of a change agent. I think the biggest problem Gingrich faces, is that, I think he comes across to voters more as an intellectual provocateur then kind of a strong executive. He doesn't really project that kind of executive leadership you get from a governor or an earlier generation (ph), like a generals.

I think that is a hurdle for him, not having much of a ground game is a hurdle for him. But look the way you're running for president, as we talked about before, is changing. And these debates are kind of overwhelming many of the traditional things that we thought you needed. An organization by counties, a lot of local presence, and he's clearly getting his moment to be looked at by that portion of the party that is very reluctant to settle on Mitt Romney.

WHITFIELD: And talk about being a benefactor perhaps he's also benefiting from Cain's handling of the allegations and Perry's most recent slip.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, that -- just imagine this, the more conservative voter in the Republican primary, the Tea Party supporter, the evangelical Christian, people who identify themselves as very conservative, those overlapping circles, they must feel as though they're kind of looking at a slow motion nightmare here. Because they probably are a majority of them that at this point do not want to nominate Mitt Romney. But if they can't settle on one candidate, he can win anyway. So each one has kind of -- each potential alternative has gotten a moment in the spotlight through the summer.

Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Herman Cain. None of them have really been able to hold on to that mantle or seem to justify that level of support. So those voters have continued to move on and as I say, if you look at the polling, a lot of what is happening for Gingrich now is you do see Tea Party supporters being behind it.

One thing that is worth noting, Gingrich does have more potential to cross over into the more moderate secular part of the party that is supporting Romney than say I think Cain or Perry does. I mean he can be credible to a broader range of voters I think in a Republican coalition than either of those. That could be a risk but still a lot of hurdles.

WHITFIELD: And interesting too, he's not taken the opportunity to really criticize his fellow Republican contenders on stage. Instead, when he's been on the attack, he has made sure that he's been focusing on the White House, the sitting president.

Ron Brownstein, thank you so much.

BROWNSTEIN: And the media.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and the media, of course. We're bad, bad, bad, bad. All right. I'm going to talk to you again momentarily.

A huge vote in Ohio sending a strong message to Mitt Romney and other Republican leaders. Ron is back to talk about that in this special hour of the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN: Tonight I know you're excited, the Republican presidential candidates held a debate in Michigan. Yes. Just what Michigan needs, 12 more people looking for a job. Actually it was the ninth GOP debate. This is the ninth. The election is still a year away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.

O'BRIEN: It is the ninth. I think they're running out of things to debate. Tonight they just argued over who was the best lead singer for Van Halen. Yes. And they said Sammy Hager.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so Conan joking about the ninth Republican presidential debate on Wednesday. So it is hard to believe that last night was the tenth debate of this political season. Our Wolf Blitzer talks about the need for such debates in this week's "Blitzer's Blog." WOLF BLITZER, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is pretty amazing how significant the Republican presidential debates have proven to be this year. They have clearly shaped out attitudes in rather dramatic ways. Presidential historians may write one day that this was the year of the debate. There already were so many memorable moments, many that the candidates would almost certainly like to forget.

The other night in Michigan, for example, may have been the most memorable, most awkward debate moment ever. That was when Rick Perry had a brain freeze for nearly 60 seconds and forgot the third agency of the U.S. Government he would like to eliminate, even though he had routinely cited those three agencies in his campaign stump speech over the years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry. Oops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The education, by the way, commerce and energy. But there have been several other moments, including that nasty exchange at the CNN debate in Las Vegas between Perry and Mitt Romney over illegal immigrants working on Romney's lawn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm speaking. I'm speaking. Would you please wait? Are you just going to keep talking? Are you going to let me finish?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And that moment at the CNN debate in Tampa when some audience members applauded and shouted yes when I asked Ron Paul if we should let an uninsured 30-year-old die.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice over): Are you saying that society should just let him die?

RON PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All of which underscores how important these debates have proven to be. Millions of people watch the actual debate, but tens of millions of people wind up watching those one-minute highlight clips. Perry entered the race for the Republican nomination nearly three months ago with incredibly high expectations. But his poll numbers have collapsed, largely, largely because of his weak debate performances. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I stepped in it, man. Yes, it was embarrassing. Of course it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In contrast, Romney's front-runner status has been steady in part because of his impressive debate performances. And Newt Gingrich's recent slow but solid climb has certainly been helped by his debate performances.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a wide open race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The bottom line in all of this, if you want to be president of the United States, you better be prepared to debate. I'm Wolf Blitzer in "The Situation Room" in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. We continue to dive into the issues on the presidential campaign. Every Sunday we're spending this hour of the CNN NEWSROOM to allow you to hear from the contenders as they spell out their visions for the future of America.

Republican front-runner Mitt Romney's rivals have accused him of flip- flopping on some very big issues. One of them, a Republican-backed law in Ohio that rolled back union rights for public workers. Ohio voters, however, repealed that law Tuesday. During a stop in Ohio, ahead of the vote, Romney distanced himself from the measure. Here's what he said then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not speaking about the particular ballot issues. Those are under the people of Ohio. But I certainly support the effort of the governor. So I'm not terribly familiar with it, the two ballot initiatives, but I'm certainly supportive of the Republican Party's effort here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And then this is what Romney said the next day, after he left Ohio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: With regards to question two, which is the collective bargaining question, I am 110 percent behind Governor Kasich and in support of that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein with us again from New York. Also the editorial director of the "National Journal." So Ron, you called the Ohio repeal vote a warning for Republicans in Washington. Fill us in on what you mean.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, first of all, Mitt Romney, that's kind of getting hit by a swinging door on both sides. First he got accused of flip- flopping and then now he's associated with an initiative that was -- a law that was repealed by a ballot initiative with 60 percent of the state voting to repeal. I think what caught the eye of Democrats; you can only go so far in analogizing from any ballot initiative to any other election.

What caught the eye of Democrats was that many of the groups that have really moved sharply toward the Republicans in recent years, in particular blue collar working class white voters and older white voters, both of them were really at the core of the Republican surge in 2010, they voted in big numbers according to an Election Day poll for the repeal of this initiative.

The argument that was made against the initiative really is somewhat similar to the argument that President Obama is likely to make against the Republicans in 2012. The argument was that Governor Kasich was rolling back benefits and pensions and wages for public employees while trying to protect tax cuts for in this case corporations, but certainly for the wealthy. That's the kind of argument, very class conscious argument that many Democrats want to see the president making. At least in this one case in Ohio, it did have some resonance and did help them win back voters who have been absolutely essential to the Republican gains in recent years and especially in 2010.

WHITFIELD: So, you know for Romney in particular, he is a -- the Republican nominee, president must win Ohio, right? I mean there is a lot of pressure to appeal to the people in Ohio. Would he be in trouble just because in large part because of his position on that vote?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think Ohio at this point in our history, a great separate conversation, used to be indispensable for both states. I think it is actually now more important for Republicans than Democrats. Probably Obama can find another way to 270, never easy without Ohio, but he probably can. Look, I think for Mitt Romney this is kind of perhaps an early warning of the kind of campaign Democrats will try to run if he is the nominee.

One thing about Romney is he is a strong competitor for those upper middle class voters who are socially moderate, economically right of center who moved Democratic since 1992 and Bill Clinton. If you look at the polling for example out this week, in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida, he does better than any other Republican with those upper middle class voters. The potential vulnerability, though, is as someone who kind of embodies Wall Street potentially can be made to embody Wall Street capitalism, you saw the front page article in the "New York Times" today about the impact that some of the main company buyouts in the '80s and '90s. These were the arguments that Ted Kennedy raised against him when he ran in the Senate in 1994. If you make that case against Romney, maybe you can bring back some of those blue collar voters who have been so important to the Republican gains and as I said ultimately were persuaded by the Democratic and union arguments in this ballot initiative in Ohio. There have not been a lot of things on any ballot that Democrats have been for that you've seen white, blue collar voters vote for in the kind of numbers we saw in Ohio this week.

And by the way just to qualify that, they also voted to reject the individual mandate health care. So it wasn't uninbigulessly (ph) President Obama. But it is a sign of some arguments.

WHITFIELD: That was a pretty big, big blow. All right. Thanks so much, Ron Brownstein, always appreciate your insight. Thanks so much for hanging out with me this hour.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. When given the opportunity to evaluate Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich chose not to. How he handled it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to this special hour of the CNN NEWSTOOM. We're taking this time out every Sunday to talk about the 2012 presidential race. The next Republican debate is nine days away. It will be the 11th debate. With each one there are candidates who shine and those who are criticized. Our chief political correspondent Candy Crowley has more.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The thing about the primary season is there is always another debate, which is handy if you messed up a previous one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Perry, you abdicate the elimination of the Department of Energy. If you eliminate the Department of Energy --

RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTICAL CANDIDATE: Glad you remembered it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've had some time to think about it, sir.

PERRY: Me too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Following Wednesday's brain freeze heard around the world, Rick Perry went into comic crises control. If you step in it, joke about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN: Number four --

RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I had a five-hour energy drink six hours before the debate.

LETTERMAN: Oh, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Perry's gaffe may be Gingrich's gain. The former speaker's numbers are up, up enough to suggest he may be the next anybody but Romney candidate. And if Gingrich falls short of the gold, what about silver? This kind of caught our ear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the arc of this campaign and perhaps what you heard tonight, would you care to evaluate Governor Romney's ability to think outside of the box and change the United States national security or foreign policy perspectives?

NEWT GINGRICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said so last night.

GINGRICH: We're here tonight talking to the American people about why every single one of us is better than Barack Obama, and that's the topic I'd rather talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: So Newt had the opportunity to take a swing at Mitt and passed. Vice President Gingrich, anyone?

WHITFIELD: Our thanks to Candy Crowley. Iowa is the place to be this coming week. That's where the candidates are going. We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Here is a look at where the 2012 contenders will be this week. Monday, Newt Gingrich begins three days in Iowa. And Herman Cain will be in Wisconsin. Tuesday, Rick Santorum heads to Iowa for the week. And John Huntsman returns to New Hampshire. Wednesday, Cain goes to Florida. And then Rick Perry is in New Hampshire. And Michele Bachmann will be in Iowa.

Thanks so much for tuning in for this special hour of politics. Join us every Sunday at 4:00 Eastern Time. Now stay right here for the latest news right here in THE NEWSROOM.