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Un-Occupy: Cities Move Against Protesters; Taliban Exposes Security Secrets; What Could the NCAA Do to Penn State Over Sex Abuse Scandal; Dangerous Winter Storm Hits Colorado; Brazil Uses Tanks, Military to Clean Up Shanty Town Prior to World Cup, Olympics; REM is Breaking Up; NASA Vehicle Assembly Building Re-opens to Public

Aired November 13, 2011 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us. I'm Don Lemon. You are in THE CNN NEWSROOM.

We're going to begin with this tonight: crime, filth, drugs, even some deaths. Many cities are getting fed up with the "Occupy" movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Portland Police Bureau. Under authority of Oregon law, southwest Main Street is being reopened to vehicular traffic. You must immediately vacate the roadways and proceed to the sidewalk. If you remain in the roadway, (INAUDIBLE) emergency circumstances required, you may be subject to use of force, including chemical agents and impact weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Chemical agents and impact weapons. We have been watching these pictures coming to THE CNN NEWSROOM all afternoon. And police have been clearing these parts.

This is late last night. Police in Portland, Oregon have been warning protesters to leave their encampment.

These are live pictures now from our affiliate KOIN.

Right now, the demonstrators are blocking a street. They seem to be daring police to arrest them.

Sam Adams, the mayor of Portland, joins us now live via telephone.

Mr. Mayor, as we look at these live pictures, can you tell us why you are taking this action now?

SAM ADAMS, MAYOR OF PORTLAND, OREGON (via telephone): Well, we -- the encampments for "Occupy Portland" is just a block away and we had a series of increased drug overdoses, we had to bring people back to life. We had an arsonist that used a camp as camouflage for his work, 20 percent increase in crime surrounding the encampment. And, you know, the organizers of the encampment themselves, you know, issued a statement a week or so ago saying they realized that there were some who were taking advantage of their goodwill. So, we worked with them. But in the end, it just became too great a public safety burden and that's why we moved to clear the camps out, which we have, and it was compared to other efforts around the country, relatively peaceful.

And the live shots that you are seeing now are some of the protesters who had sought to protect the last remnant of the camp that we cleared out about an hour ago.

LEMON: And, Mayor Sam Adams, you are correct. These are again live pictures that we're looking at and you see police in their gear, their SWAT gear. They have been moving these people out of this park all day.

Mayor, you know, it's -- I'm wondering and I think people who are sympathetic with the movement are wondering, are you sympathetic to the complaints from the "Occupy" protesters?

ADAMS: Well, I'm -- you know, I got in to public service for the crimes of economic justice issues on which "Occupy" Wall Street was founded, and I think that there are plenty of narrative dwellers on Wall Street that, you know, probably like the fact that occupations around the world are getting embroiled in these kinds of local issues, but it is happening.

We have worked really hard to keep the peace here in Portland. This is our fourth or fifth police action. There's not been any serious injuries. We have not used tear gas or rubber bullets and those kinds of things. We work really hard even in passionate moments like you are seeing now to make sure that the coolest heads prevail.

And I want to really give a shout-out to the Portland Police Bureau for their professionalism and also the organizers of "Occupy Portland" who work hard as well to keep the peace.

LEMON: All right. Mayor, stand by. Again, we want to tell you that these are live images coming to us from Portland, Oregon, where the "Occupy Portland" folks have been moved out of the park. And you are looking at Portland police moving those people back there, dropping -- excuse me, they are blocking a street now and police are trying to keep the peace there.

Let's listen in just for a bit and we'll continue to talk to the mayor after this.

(CHANTING)

LEMON: So, Mayor, as you are listening, you hear them saying "We are peaceful people." That's what they are saying there.

Is there -- and I asked this to the mayor of Atlanta and other mayors from around the country, is there a fair way in your city to protect their First Amendment rights and still ensure public safety? ADAMS: Absolutely. And, we've, you know -- again, we have had probably 80 arrests here and no serious injuries. Either we have had some injuries but no serious injuries here in Portland. I mean, you are not seeing a city in flames here because we work at communication, telling people what we are going to do, why we are going to do it, and we work hard, all of us have been working hard at keeping the peace and allowing and protecting freedom of expression. I mean, that is part of our responsibility, as well.

LEMON: I'm sure many cities around the country probably took note of what happened in Denver, the violence there.

Do you think, Mayor, that you are taking a hard line -- by you taking a hard line it could backfire and actually energize the movement? Do you worry or do you even think about that?

ADAMS: You know, I supported what a lot of the movement stands for. The movement is about getting the unique value preposition of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement is to breed a justice, you know, many of the business leaders that drove the economy in to the ditch to provide for more equal access to economic opportunities. It shouldn't be so focused on, you know, port-a-potties and tents and encampments attracting other criminal elements or people that are better served in human service environment.

So I think this movement needs to evolve. I mean, I humbly submit, it needs to evolve, in order to get the kinds of reforms we need on a national and international basis.

LEMON: Yes. It sounds like what you are saying to me is that the tactics are outweighing the good and the message here. The way they are trying to get their message across is actually harming what they could be accomplishing here.

ADAMS: I think that the occupation is an important starting point. And I think that, you know, in many ways they can declare victory.

When you have Treasury Secretary Geithner a couple of weeks talking about the fact, hey, don't forget we are not done bringing to justice some of the folks, you know, that, again, messed up the global economy. We're not done with that. I think it is a direct result of highlighting the issues and advocacy of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement. But we need to get results on those issues. We need to get some results on the founding concerns of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement.

And there's work to be done in each city. But, you know, the city as liberal as Portland that supports a lot of those reforms whose mayor and city council supports that agenda, you know, we're not the enemies.

LEMON: I get what you are saying.

ADAMS: The occupations may sense a launch but I think it has to evolve.

LEMON: It has to evolve. Mayor Sam Adams, the mayor of Portland, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Mayor, don't go far from the phone. We may be getting back to you. And again, we have been seeing these images coming out of Portland, Oregon. All day, the "Occupy Portland" people there had been moved out of the park. They are blocking a street now.

We want to go to one of the protesters who is there. Her name is Kari Koch. One of the protesters for "Occupy Portland". She joins us now by phone.

I'm not sure if you were able to hear the mayor but he said is, is that for public safety reasons, he had to move you guys out of the park, and he thinks that "Occupy" movement, the "Occupy" movement needs to involve now beyond just occupation.

KARI KOCH, OCCUPY PORTLAND (via telephone): Yes, I was able to hear the mayor's words there and it's -- I appreciate what the mayor is saying. But unfortunately it's not the mayor's call as to what "Occupy" movement looks like. That's the call of the people who are directly involved with "Occupy Portland".

And I think we have been evolving over the last five weeks. We have been holding down this camp and last night, we saw that despite all of the things the mayor mentioned, 7,000 people flooded in to downtown Portland to support "Occupy Portland" and the values that we stand for, the values of addressing a system where inequality of wealth and power is so egregious.

And so, we feel strong that this community supports us. And I feel like -- I'm sorry. I should say I can't speak on behalf of "Occupy Portland". I can only speak on behalf of myself.

But I feel like I am extremely disappointed that the mayor chose to crack down on these parks when an outpouring of support from the community was so strong and clearly in favor of "Occupy Portland".

LEMON: OK. So, Kari --

KOCH: I feel as though he caved actually to the business interest and Portland business alliance in making this decision.

LEMON: Kari, can I jump in here and ask you a question? Now, if you listen to the mayor, the mayor has offered you some good advice.

He says he's on your side. He's on your -- you have someone in the city council that's on your side. You have someone who's willing to work with you in one of the most liberal cities in the country, a very liberal place. And he is telling you he wants to work with you but your movement needs to evolve.

That sounds like some pretty good advice to me from someone who appears to have your interest at heart. Why won't you take his advice? Why won't you work with him?

KOCH: So, we have agreed to work with the city on many levels and we have a variety of demands and we have evolved as a movement. I think what's the mistake here is that the mayor is calling out, you know, homelessness and helplessness and drug overdoses in the parks and calling that as a reason for the shutdowns of these parks. But in reality, those problems exist deep within our society and the park has simply -- the occupation and camp has simply shown a light on these issues and the mayor then shows this camp aside to sweep these issues aside.

We were feeding 1,500 people a day at the camp can. We had hundreds of people house those folks and others sleeping there each night. We were making an impact on the city.

LEMON: Kari, only for time purposes, I'm not cutting you off because we do have to move on.

KOCH: Yes.

LEMON: We have to get commercial breaks and there's other news. What I understand, the situation, what the mayor is saying and in many cities are saying, and listen, I'm not on anyone's side here -- but what I am saying, those -- sometimes the problems the mayor is talking about homelessness, about drug use, about crime, about rape, sometimes when you have a number of people in places like that, it can exacerbate the situation, it can increase those thing, and, in fact, it can become a hot bed for those things.

The public safety is important here and it's also at the center of this as well. So, it appears to people who are watching who is not a part of any of it that you can get together and the movement can evolve in some way. But you have to take care of those issues. You just cannot occupy a park and then allow crimes to go on. That just doesn't happen.

KOCH: So, I would respond by saying that crime exists in our city and the occupation is no more of a hot bed for crime than anywhere else in downtown Portland. Those people exist, drug addicts, mentally ill folks exist, and we are looking to deal with what we have.

It is true we were a place -- a safe place to go and that created some problems and we were working to deal with those problems.

And the mayor cut us off from our capacity to deal with those problems.

LEMON: All right, Kari --

KOCH: I would also say that the camp is evolving and we will continue -- shutting down the campus does not shut down "Occupy Portland." Obviously, continue to evolve and grow and we are planning --

LEMON: All right. Kari, I have to run here. But we want you to stick around and get back in touch with you us if this keeps going on. But we appreciate you joining us.

I hear your side. I hear the mayor's side, as well. It could be great if you guys could work together and actually get something accomplished instead of talking over each other. Kari Koch, we appreciate you joining us on CNN. We were going to continue to follow this developing story coming out of Portland, Oregon. You saw the images there. Police against the "Occupy Portland" folks, a standoff on the street, live pictures. We will monitor.

We are also following a developing story this hour in Afghanistan. The Taliban with a claim today that should strike fear around the world. Be right back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Pennsylvania's governor says a Penn State child sex abuse scandal should permanently change the way cases are handled across the entire state. There's a reason ousted coach Joe Paterno isn't facing criminal charges right now. In 2002, he told school administrators about a report that former defensive coach Jerry Sandusky was seen raping a boy in a locker room shower.

That's all he was required to do under Pennsylvania law. Tell the people in charge and let them decide whether to contact police. Governor Tom Corbett said that isn't good enough. He said by law, someone in Paterno's position should have to call the cops himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TOM CORBETT (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Should the law be changed? Absolutely. I know members of both parties, Republican and Democrat, have already introduced measures to make that change. And we have to make sure that changing the law is one that is effective, it's easy enough to look and see what other states have done. But I'm sure that within the next few weeks, you are probably seeing those become public. I wouldn't be surprised to see if a bill was passed between now and the end of this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Corbett is on the Penn State board of trustees which fired Paterno just this week. He also began an investigation against Jerry Sandusky when he was the attorney general.

Sandusky is accused of sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year period. He's been staying out of the public eye. But an ABC News caught up with him after the news broke.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY SANDUSKY, FMR. PENN STATE DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR: I'm sorry, but my attorney has advised me that this situation is in the courts and I'm not to make any comments.

REPORTER: Can you tell us if you had any inappropriate relationships with the young boys, sir?

SANDUSKY: You didn't hear what I said. I am -- I have been advised by my attorney. I'm following orders and I am not privy to making any statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: On Saturday, Penn State played its first game since the allegations broke and its first game in 46 years without Paterno as head coach.

Will the NCAA penalize a program over this scandal, perhaps for seasons to come? We'll ask "Sports Illustrated's" Jon Wertheim a little bit later on in the show.

To Afghanistan now, and just days away from a meeting that could decide the country's future. Tribal elders gather in the capital on Wednesday, but they could all be in jeopardy. The Taliban claim to know exactly how they'll be kept safe during that meeting.

Nick Peyton Walsh has more on leaked online security documents and why Afghan officials say they're not worried.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Taliban say they have obtained confidential security information about a forthcoming meeting of tribal elders to be held in Kabul here, at the request of Afghan President Hamid Karzai later on this week. They put it out on the Internet and they claim it's a leak from inside the Afghan government.

Now, I should point out, the Afghan interior ministry rubbished this claim, saying the documents are fake and an example of Taliban propaganda. And ISAF and NATO here don't seem too worry, pointing out that actually, the Taliban had pledged to do whatever they can to disrupt this vital meeting. But it is an exceptional important event later on this week.

Community leaders from across Afghanistan coming together to discuss what kind of permanent presence the U.S. military could have inside of Afghanistan and perhaps even discuss whether a peace deal with the insurgency, elements of the insurgency is at all possible.

Now, it isn't clear whether these documents are the real deal at all or not. But whatever is the case, they point to this continuing information war between the insurgency and coalition forces here. ISAF said it's because the Taliban can't win on the battlefield and they're resulting to information warfare. But the Taliban and some Afghans point out this is perhaps a sign of more sophisticated tactics.

And, indeed, if these documents are real, which is not clear if they are. Better intelligence by the insurgency in this case could perhaps have obtained what should be some of the Afghan government's deepest secrets.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kabul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Nick, thank you very much.

Republican candidate for president is claiming media bias. No, it's not Herman Cain again. Next, the e-mail that is Michele Bachmann saying CBS is not being fair to her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I'm sure it's happened to you. I'm sure it's happened to everybody. Everyone has accidentally sent an e-mail that they regret. You ever hit a "reply all" and go, oh, didn't mean to do that.

But no apologies from CBS over a misfire with Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. Her campaign was mistakenly included on an e-mail chain indicating that she wouldn't get as much time as others in the network's debate last night.

Well, CBS News spokesman is defending that e-mail, telling CNN it was a candid change about the reality of circumstances. Bachmann remains at 4 percent in the polls.

I want to bring in L.Z. Granderson now. He is a contributor at CNN.com and a senior writer at ESPN. Lenny McAllister, Republican analyst and web contributor for "The Chicago Defender."

Thank you guys for joining us.

So, listen, I also want to say that I did speak with Alice Stewart from the Bachmann campaign and she said that they had worked something out with CBS. And they just felt that Michele Bachmann was slighted during the debate. And she said they shouldn't decide how much air time people get when there's about 75 percent of the electorate that's undecided.

That's according to her. And we're working to get her on the show a little bit later on, so that she can talk about it.

So, Lenny, does Bachmann have a right to be mad over this e-mail?

LENNY MCALLISTER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: She has a right to be mad over the e-mail. But the truth of the matter is, if she's going to be angry at anybody. She should be angry at herself.

She won the Iowa straw poll. She was ahead of the pack. Now, what did she do to fumble the ball?

A little bit sounds like sour grapes. She's given some strong answers, but again, it's not like somebody said to a Ron Paul or other folks, or like a Rick Santorum, that never really had a chance to break out in the front. She was in front of everybody, just as Rick Perry was coming into play, and she slipped back to fifth if not sixth place in some instances.

If she's going to be angry at anybody, she can look at CBS. But she also needs to be looking at her campaign as well. She's had enough flubs there.

LEMON: Lenny, are you a conservative?

MCALLISTER: Oh, yes.

LEMON: OK. I'm just checking, because it didn't sound like it right there.

(LAUGHTER)

MCALLISTER: Listen, truthful and conservative. That's the key -- truthful and conservative. I am more American than I am conservative. That's the bottom line. That is what we all need to be: more American than any partisan politics.

LEMON: All right. As they say, keeping it real. And we know the next guy, L.Z., always keeps it real. That's why we have him on all the time.

So, L.Z., Bachmann's camp, they're complaining about the time. But what about Ron Paul? He only spoke a total of 89 seconds in last night's debate. So, why give him short (INAUDIBLE) he is. He polls very well. He usually wins, you know, most of the straw polls or he goes -- he's very is high on the straw polls.

So, what gives here? He only spoke for 89 seconds. He's not complaining.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN.COM CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I'm not really sure why he hasn't had an opportunity really speak during these debates more than he has. You are right, he's shown to be really in touch with the voters. They seem to really like some of his view and it shows whenever the straw polls are being held.

I think that if Bachmann really wanted her concerns to be taken seriously, though, what she should have done, what her campaign should have done, instead of complaining just about herself, saying, hey, look, the electorate is undecided, we should all get the same number of questions, instead of complaining just about herself. Because actually the real sin to me was that Jon Huntsman, the only candidate up there with only any solid foreign policy background, was the last person to be asked a question during a debate with foreign policy.

LEMON: Yes.

GRANDERSON: I mean, there were a lot of things that you could bring up that were wrong last night.

LEMON: L.Z. you have been -- you and I have been talking about, even personally when I saw -- I saw you at a speaking engagement months ago about Jon Huntsman. You have been talking about Jon Huntsman carrying this torch for a while now. So -- people are just starting to say what you have been saying for a long time.

Let's move on. Let's talk about Rick Perry now. And we -- you saw Rick Perry's disastrous performance the debate before the one last night. He kind of joked about it. Let's listen to last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MODERATOR: Governor Perry, you advocate the elimination of the Department of Energy. If you eliminate the Department of Energy --

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Glad you remembered it.

(LAUGHTER)

MODERATOR: I've had some time to think about it, sir.

(LAUGHTER)

PERRY: Me, too.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, as I'm asking this question let me show the video from SNL. We don't have to listen to -- but "SNL" also had some fun last night on Perry's behalf.

So, L.Z., what do you think? Did he do anything last night to help himself?

GRANDERSON: Absolutely. You know what? We've all had moments in which we freeze, right? And I think the average person recognizes that and that is what happened with him.

And I think it was really smart of him to just kind of make fun of himself, to try and to diffuse it a little bit. I think if you had taken an angry approach, it would have a lot easier to make him a punching bag. But because he was very intelligent and humanized the moment, I think he connected with voters and definitely even with liberals.

LEMON: So, Lenny, I may give you the last word. Do you think he helped himself last night?

MCALLISTER: He absolutely did, Don. His supporters have to be going nuts. They have to say to themselves, where was this guy at the last several debates. He looked very good. He started looking presidential and he was clear with a sense of humor, but clear with his positions and that's what they have been waiting for. We'll see if he can continue that momentum past last night.

LEMON: Yes, I had one of those moments I have to tell you all the time, but, you know, usually not for 53 seconds.

All right. Guys, thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you. Good to see you. All right. Let's move on and talk about the Penn State sex abuse scandal -- the criminal case and the future of the victims most important by far. But next, we're going to talk about the future of the university and its football program. Could penalties from the NCAA yield a death blow to the program?

And what about the legacy of the legendary Joe Paterno? Coach Joe Paterno, Joe Pa as they call him? We are talking with Jon Wertheim with "Sports Illustrated" coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Without pulling the focus away from the alleged child victims in the Penn State case, there is no surprise that the university's football program is now forever changed. Once so revered the Nittany Lions may never recover their stature in the NCAA.

I want to bring in Jon Wertheim, a senior investigative report for "Sports Illustrated."

Jon, you're back in New York now. We have seen the NCAA come down hard on teams on things like recruiting scandals. This is way beyond anything like. That USC is facing sanctions from Reggie Bush's time when he was there. What could the NCAA do to Penn State here?

JON WERTHEIM, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: That's a really interesting angle to all of this. The NCAA comes down hard when NCAA ruling are violated, recruiting, improper benefits, lack of institutional control, not -- there's no precedent here when there is an alleged cover-up of alleged felony sex crimes. In some ways, this is more severe than what gets schools in trouble. On the other hand, is it really in the NCAA purview? This is already being discussed at Penn State. I heard this over the weekend. The one point against it is this would punish student and players, deprive them of scholarships, who had nothing to do with this whatsoever. Is that fair to them?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hey, Jon, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

WERTHEIM: Sure.

LEMON: In USC, did the students, the team have anything to do with what happened?

WERTHEIM: Reggie Bush was a player. That was a point of confusion. USC did not get the death penalty either. There were cuts in scholarships. But Reggie Bush was a player and this was involving -- this is a coterie of coaches that are alleged to cover up an alleged sex crime. That is different than improper benefits to a player or lack of oversight, that kind of thing. And I think that -- you know, USC did not get the death penalty --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: All I'm saying, the other people -- the other members of the team had nothing to do with Reggie Bush's or the coach's actions or the people who were getting over things. So to me, it seems similar. It is not apples and oranges.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And not everyone will be involved in every scandal.

WERTHEIM: Yes. I would say at least Reggie Bush this was a scandal in the context of football, in the context of the football program. We're not talking -- this is sex crimes and, in some ways, are intricately tied to the program. But in other words, they have nothing to do with the team and the NCAA rule book. So you know, I --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Jon, I have to -- hang on. Hang on. And you and I don't usually disagree --

WERTHEIM: All right.

LEMON: But I have to disagree. It is still people who are involved in a football program, who are heads of football programs, who are not following the rules. This is about not following the rules. I don't see where football has the anything to do with it. They are both teams. They are both coaches. And I don't think that one is outside of the purview of other one. It seems very similar to me.

WERTHEIM: No, no, it's --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: These are people who were egregiously breaking the rules.

WERTHEIM: Right. I'm saying outside of the NCAA's purview. There's no precedent for the NCAA to coming in in a case like this. This is not about NCAA rules. Obviously, what is going on at Penn State is more serious than Reggie Bush, but it is in the NCAA's jurisdiction to have much of a say here. We'll see how this all plays out. I'm not saying it won't happen, but this is not the typical case where the NCAA would insert itself.

LEMON: They have enough wins to be bowl eligible, but it is possible they the bowls might say that they don't want them?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP) WERTHEIM: That's interesting. We'll see. That's an interesting take. There was talk last week that Penn State would decline a bowl bid, yet, yesterday, when the president was asked after the game, he sort of put that to rest and didn't see why any reason why they wouldn't accept a bowl. But that would be interesting. Penn State brings a lot of money and they have a huge fan base. This is a popular team. and they have a couple of defeats. So they're not going to a big bowl. If you are a lesser bowl, this is a team that will bring in a lot of fans.

On the other hand, that would be a strong statement. If these bowls said, you know what, after what is gone on there, we don't want anything to do with the program this year, that would be an interesting twist. But the rumor that Penn State would decline a bowl bid, that is does not seem to be the case. Seems like if they're invited, will go.

LEMON: Jon, after 46 years as head coach, has the scandal permanently tarnished Joe Paterno's legacy, do you think? What will he be remembered as?

WERTHEIM: Yes. I don't know how you divorce the two. Again, this is yet to -- part of what makes this so interesting, this is a fluid case. We are waiting to know a lot of information. But right now, I don't see how you divorce the two, as fine as a career as he had, to go out the way he did. This is unprecedented charges. This is literally the largest scandal, biggest scandal in the history of college sports. I don't know how that isn't the first paragraph of your legacy.

LEMON: Jon Wertheim.

And I want to be clear, Jon and I are not mad at each other. Just a lively conversation.

Jon Wertheim of "Sports Illustrated."

WERTHEIM: All good.

LEMON: Thank you, sir.

WERTHEIM: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thanks, Don.

Colorado is used to winter snowstorms, but not like this one and not in mid November. It's a dangerous situation right now and it's only getting worse. Our meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras, on how bad it is going to get. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: To the weather now. A fierce winter storm is hammering the central Rockies right now. Heavy snowfall and powerful wind gusts are creating dangerous blizzard conditions in Colorado. Some people may be liking it, but it is causing a lot of chaos on the roads.

Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is monitoring this extreme storm from the CNN Severe Weather Center.

You saw the people out there, hikers, snow boarders. They may like it but it is causing some madness.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Oh, I know. This is bad even for them, Don.

LEMON: Really?

JERAS: When you're talking about wind gusts that are hurricane force, it is dangerous for a lot of people. There have been a lot of car accidents and a lot of people who have lost power today. Look at the road conditions of the roads out there. Still, this is the Eisenhower Tunnel just west of Denver along I-70. This doesn't look too bad, but Loveland Pass had to close down because of the extreme weather.

The wind has really been the big issue with the storm. We have seen impressive snowfall totals. We have had wind gusts as much as 115 miles an hour. That was near Fresco. And there you see the snowfall totals. These are preliminary. So these will go up. But when it is said and done, we are talking two feet overall.

Best thing I can tell you, it is kind of a fast-moving storm. The reason why it is such a wind maker is we have great differences between pressures. A strong low here, a strong high here, and another strong high to the east. And it is really driving in the winds.

Believe it or not, Denver itself hasn't seen a flake of snow. You are too warm. And that has to do with the track of the storm, and they have winds slope down the mountains and it dries out, and you got nothing.

We will have to watch this, Don, for tomorrow because it turns into a rain maker from the Great Lakes to the gulf coast.

LEMON: Oh, boy.

JERAS: And a slight chance of a few thunderstorms that could be severe.

LEMON: OK, you're not going far.

JERAS: I'm not.

LEMON: Just checking. You're not.

(LAUGHTER)

You're not.

Thank you, Jacqui. I'll see you a little bit later on in the broadcast here on CNN tonight. Next, on the front lines of the nation's war on drugs, they are using tanks, troops and much more against the bad guys. And it is all happening inside of one of the world's largest cities.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, Brazil is taking the concept of cleaning up the neighborhood to a new level. I want you to look at this show of force that entered one of the most notorious slums in Rio de Janeiro today. Wow, look at that. The military offensive included tanks, and not hundreds, but thousands of security forces. The story tops the world's headlines as we go "Globe Trekking."

CNN's international editor, Azadeh Ansari, joins me now.

Azadeh, why Brazil? Why are they doing this? Anything to do with the fact the nation is hosting the 2016 Olympics?

AZADEH ANSARI, CNN INTERNATIONAL DESK EDITOR: Don, I think it has a lot to do with that. This problem has been going on for decades, right? They want to clean up the city's image. And in this shantytown, about a fifth of the city's residents live in the shantytowns and they want to get rid of the drug problem they've had for decades. This raid that happened over night was a pre-dawn raid that lasted two hours. You had 3,000 troops, navy commanders, helicopters just flying.

LEMON: Look at the images. Wow.

ANSARI: It was really dramatic. And in the end, the police prevailed. But the real question is, Don, it is one thing to clean it up, but is this just window dressing? Is this going to sustain, once the World Cup is over and once the Olympics leave?

LEMON: Yes, it's amazing. If we can see -- look at this. Look at that video. Can we take that full? That video is amazing of them going onto the streets there.

(CROSSTALK)

ANSARI: They went bang busters on the city.

LEMON: A huge show of force.

I want to move on now because I want to talk about Switzerland and a case of Islamophobia that's really disturbing. Someone dumped pig parts at the site of a proposed mosque?

ANSARI: It's growing -- the growing concern here is the critics saying is that -- the Swiss -- Switzerland could be a safe haven for money but is it safe have for your beliefs. It's a proposed mosque sight and they found pig carcasses, pig's blood. And maybe this is an effort to dissuade the people who want to build the mosque to stop building there, because pig in Islam is forbidden. And they are probably hoping that this will probably prevent the project from going forward. Another case of Islamophobia. LEMON: All right.

Azadeh Ansari, from the international desk.

Thank you.

ANSARI: You're very welcome.

LEMON: Appreciate you "Globe Trekking" with us.

You know, it seems appropriate coming out of our "Globe Trekking" segment to hear this.

(SINGING)

LEMON: After 31 years and 85 million albums sold -- that should be -- not 85 million albums -- that would be a lot of albums to produce, right? REM is breaking up. Why? We will let them explain in two minutes.

(LAUGHTER)

(SINGING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're in the countdown to a music milestone. In two days, REM releases its last album, ever. It's got a long name to reflect on the 31 years that REM has thrived in an industry notorious for one-hit wonders.

CNN's Shanon Cook interviewed the band on why it is over for REM. But first, she answers the question the cynics are asking, well, could this all be a publicity stunt?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SHANON COOK, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: A publicity stunt for REM just seems unlike REM, but only time will tell. In the meantime, here's part one of my interview with Michael Stipe and Mike Mills.

(MUSIC)

COOK: This isn't really a dramatic breakup, is it? It's really just the end of the road for REM.

MIKE MILLS, REM BAND MEMBER: It's the end of the road for REM.

MICHAEL STIPE, REM BAND MEMBER: As we know it.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLS: Ah.

STIPE: Sorry! MILLS: As a touring and recording entity. You know, REM will continue to exist in our catalog and our music, but as far as creating more stuff, no, that's the end.

STIPE: Between the three of us, we kind of arrived at it at the same time. Now you can go into the blogosphere and everyone has their opinion of when REM should have or might should have broken up.

(LAUGHTER)

But we don't even call it breaking up. We disbanded. There's no animosity. There's no weirdness. There's no lawyers squaring off between us. We love each other and have huge respect for each other. We just reached a point where it didn't feel like it made sense to carry on any further. And we happened to do that at a very high point in a 31-year career of highs and lows.

(SINGING)

COOK: Why quit? Why not just take a break and then just tour when you feel like it?

MILLS: Because if you do that, then you've got constant questions about, well, when's your next record? When's your next tour? When are you going to do this? And in a way, that would inhibit whatever we plan to do going forward.

STIPE: I think it would turn everything else in our life into a sideshow. People would say, when are you going to do the next REM record or tour? And I for ourselves, we need and wanted that closure and that clarity.

COOK: So how do you feel about this? Do you feel sad? Are you relieved?

MILLER: There's -- certainly, there's sadness. You know, it's bittersweet, by all means but --

STIPE: If the feelings go from here to here, we're -- we're feeling every one of them.

MILLER: Right. But you know, not relief, though. Because relief implies, like, we're escaping something. And it certainly isn't that.

STIPE: No.

MILLER: You know, there is the word that popped into my head, there is an odd feeling of liberation.

(SINGING)

MILLER: It's a liberation. It's a clean break, and a chance to move forward.

COOK: So what do you do now? STIPE: I took a deep breath the day of the announcement of our disbanding and I just thought, now what? Where -- what do I do now? And I couldn't answer it for myself. So I decided to be very honest with everyone I spoke to about it and say, I have no idea. I really don't know. But I'm going to take a sabbatical for a couple months or longer. And whatever I do, you'll know about it, I hope.

COOK: So a massive comeback tour, never say never?

MILLER: Never say never, of course, but we're not going to do it.

(LAUGHTER)

COOK: That's kind of a never.

(CROSSTALK)

STIPE: But if we ever did, we would tell you exactly why. And it would be because one of us, for some reason or another, really needed money.

(LAUGHTER)

But I don't -- I don't see that happening at all. I mean, it is funny, but we're being really honest by saying, it's over. We love each other. We love what we did. It's done.

(SINGING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Oh, but wait, Shanon's got much more with REM. Join us next hour and find out which of their songs mean the most to the musicians. That's right here on CNN.

And next, we're taking you inside one of the world's biggest buildings for the first time in decades. You may not grasp just how big NASA's Vehicle Assembly Building is until you hear and see this story.

But first, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta launched a new program today called "The Next List." Each week, it will profile innovators from all walks of life and all fields of endeavor. This week, he introduces us to Marco Tempist, a cyber-illusionist, who combines video, computers, graphics and other technology with magic for a cutting-edge performance.

(THE NEXT LIST)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The Vehicle Assembly Building at NASA's Kennedy Space Center is one of the largest structures in the world. Now that the shuttle program has retired, the complex has re-opened to the public for the first time in more than 30 years.

CNN's John Zarrella was there. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These folks are some of the first inside. For more than 30 years, it had been closed to visitors.

DAVID SCHWAEGER, TOUR VISITOR: Took lots of pictures. I did. And some of them only I'll understand. Because how do you take a picture of this? How do you take a picture of the ceiling? It's unbelievable.

ZARRELLA: If you think that's unbelievable --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shuttle orbiter, "Endeavour."

ZARRELLA: For current and future space geeks, this is heaven, a pinch-me moment. "Endeavour" is being held here until its California museum home is ready.

(on camera): Do you know what you're looking at back there?

JAMEY MESSETT, TOUR VISITOR: Yes.

ZARRELLA: What is it?

MESSETT: A space rocket.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): This is the Vehicle Assembly Building, VAB, at the Kennedy Space Center, rich in history, and now reopened for public tours.

From here, the massive Saturn 5 moon rockets were assembled before rolling out to the launch pad.

CONRAD NAGEL, FORMER SHUTTE FLOW DIRECTOR: It was just so busy in here. We had thousands of people in this building at a time. There were probably 6,000 people in this building.

ZARRELLA: Conrad Nagel worked on both the Apollo and space shuttle programs.

NAGEL: We're probably not going to see anything like this in our lifetime.

ZARRELLA: All 135 shuttles started out from this building too, made into the fuel tanks and booster rockets. Because of the volatile fuels and chemicals used during the shuttle era, NASA closed the VAB's doors to outsiders in 1978.

With the shuttle program over, NASA is again allowing tours from the visitor complex to stop here.

DAVE MESSETT, TOUR VISITOR: We just sort of said, well, we absolutely have to do that part of the tour. That's just not optional.

ZARRELLA: To this day, the VAB remains one of the biggest buildings in the world, 525 feet high. By volume, it's the fourth-largest in the world.

(on camera): So here's one of those interesting NASA factoids. That's the Vehicle Assembly Building behind me. And that American flag you see there, it is so large that you can fit a city bus inside each of the stripes.

NAGEL: When you look at that big flag out there hanging on the side of this thing, 210 feet long, wow, what a flag.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Within a few years, NASA hopes to start assembling its next generation rocket in here, one that will take astronaut perhaps to Mars.

The space agency has not decided yet whether the welcome mat will remain out once that new rocket gets here.

John Zarrella, CNN, at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)