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Jerry Sandusky Denies Sexually Abusing Boys; Interview With Former Second Mile Participant; Time Ticks Away for Syria; Time Ticks Away for Syria; Face Off at "Occupy" Park in NYC; "Occupy DC" Protest; Cain's Long Libya Answer; We Can Do Better
Aired November 15, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for me to hand it over to Brooke Baldwin.
Hi, Brooke.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Randi. Thank you so much.
And hello to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Let's get you caught up on everything making news this hour, "Rapid Fire."
Let's go, beginning with live pictures I want to show you from Syria.
And just listen, if you will, to the rally of people opposed to the current Assad regime. All right? They keep going.
Today, the Syrian National Council, which is anti-Assad, asked for U.N. peacekeepers to be allowed into their country. The death toll in Syria is rising daily. One opposition group says 81 people died yesterday alone.
We're going to talk a lot more about what's happening right now in Syria with Hala Gorani in just a couple of moments.
Also today, Jerry Sandusky, in his own words, admitting to showering with children, but denying anything of a sexual nature that happened with the eight boys he's accused of abusing. The former Penn State defensive coordinator spoke with NBC, denying he's a pedophile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB COSTAS, NBC: Are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys?
JERRY SANDUSKY, FMR. PENN STATE ASSISTANT COACH: Am I sexually attracted to underage boys?
COSTAS: Yes.
SANDUSKY: Sexually attracted? You know, I enjoy young people. I love to be around them. I -- but, no, I'm not sexually attracted to young boys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Right now in New York, a face-off over Occupy Wall Street.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Our park!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Our park!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Hours after riot police ordered these protesters out of Zuccotti Park and ripped down their tents, a judge says the demonstrators should be allowed back in. But police have not let them in yet. A judge is hearing from both sides right now.
We are obviously watching for a decision. We'll pass it along to you.
Also, a major development in the sex abuse scandal involving the Catholic Church. An attorney for a victim of a former priest Daniel McCormack says his client has agreed to a $3.2 million settlement with the Archdiocese of Chicago. Now, the name of the victim has not been released, but his suit blamed the archdiocese for not removing McCormack after leaders knew of these abuse allegations.
Less than a year before the election, we have some new numbers to show you about President Obama's approval rating. Take a look with me.
You're going to see the number 46. Forty-six percent approved, 52 percent of the people polled disapprove of the president's overall performance. Those number reflecting the partisan divide. Three- quarters of Democrats gave President Obama a thumb's up, 15 percent of Republicans, just that number.
And I'm going to be honest, if I weren't doing this job right now which I love, here's what I would be doing today -- applying to become one of these guys or gals, an astronaut. Yes.
NASA looking to hire some new recruits. We have got details about this announcement just about an hour ago. And so even though you know the space shuttle program is officially over, NASA is still looking for up to 15 astronauts for missions all the way up to the International Space Station, and according to the job posting, frequent travel may be required.
Hmm -- you think?
Massive flooding in Thailand creates what you could call a meadow swampland. Look at this.
All of these cars stuck. This is just outside of Bangkok. Hundreds of cars still under water at the Honda factory, and it's been like this for just about a month. But the floodwaters, they are receding after killing more than 500 people and causing a reported $3 billion loss to the economy.
And we're going to show you some surveillance video here. This shows 9-year-old Jordan Landon.
Is that it, guys?
Nine-year-old Jordan Landon with her dad -- yes, Doug, just before he crashed his car, killing himself, trapping her for two days in the car wreckage. Jordan survived on Pop Tarts and Gatorade while pinned upside-down in this car, and a passerby finally found her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN BRINSON, FAMILY FRIEND: She tried to dig her way out, too, but she couldn't. She said she was pinned underneath the car. The only thing that she said when we sent her to the hospital, that she was hungry, and asked about her dad. And we had to break that down to her, and that hurt the most.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: North Carolina Highway Patrol told our affiliate WMCT the dad had been speeding when that accident happened on Friday.
And are you having trouble hearing me? Are you turning me up? Guess what? Your music may be too loud.
This new medical study is blaming headphones, especially the whole, like, in ear, earbud style, for leaving more than 48 million teens and adults with measurable hearing loss. A Johns Hopkins head and neck specialist says blasting music into your ears causes damage you won't notice until years later. Great.
He recommends that headphones that rest on your ears, not in your ears. So you're going to need to turn that down.
And take a look at these images. We really couldn't turn away from this.
This is from the Congo. This volcano acting up in this spectacular way. Scientists believe this may be the biggest eruption seen in the last 100 years.
The lava fountain, spewing as high as 1,300 feet. Experts are keeping an eye on it, but they are confident no people or animals are in danger. Just putting on a spectacular show there.
And we have a bit of a show for you as well. We've got a lot more to cover in the next two hours, including this --
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Sixteen seconds. That's how long it took for Jerry Sandusky to answer this question: "Are you sexually attracted to young boys?" This, as even more accusers are reportedly coming forward.
I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.
(voice-over): Newt Gingrich rises. Herman Cain explains.
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a pause. Good grief.
BALDWIN: And Rick Perry gets aggressive.
GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Those who got us into this mess cannot get us out.
BALDWIN: The Texas governor reveals a plan to completely uproot the government.
DAYNA BLAZEY, ASSIST. DISTRICT ATTORNEY, TRAVIS COUNTY, TEXAS: The pain that she was going through was so immense.
BALDWIN: A teenager kills herself after years of alleged sexual abuse. The person who found her body? The girl's mother. I'll speak with her live.
Plus, fiery words from Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's a brigade without bullets.
BALDWIN: As the clock ticks for the super committee to decide what gets cut, new warnings -- America's in big trouble if those cuts include the military.
And want to be an astronaut? Here's your chance. NASA is now hiring.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Jerry Sandusky, Penn State's ex-defensive coordinator, for the first time in his own words, admitting to showering with these boys, but claiming nothing sexual happened. A grown man naked, alone with children, yet he claims he's no pedophile.
Here's what he told NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: I could say that, you know, I had done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids. I have showered after workouts. I have hugged them and I have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact. But -- so if you look at it that way, there are things that would be accurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Now, Sandusky, as you know by now, he's accused of sexually abusing eight boys over the course of this 15-year period. Now we're learning "The New York Times" is reporting that close to 10 more alleged accusers have come forward.
His attorney tried to further justify Sandusky's actions in an interview with CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE AMENDOLA, SANDUSKY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jerry Sandusky is a big, overgrown kid. He's a jock.
And for anybody who has ever played sports, you get showers after you work out. I mean, when people hear he got showers with kids, oh, my goodness, you know, he got showers with kids. That makes him guilty, right? I mean, obviously, anybody who gets a shower with a kid who's an adult has to be guilty of something.
But the bottom line is, jocks do that. I mean, they kid around. They horse around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And when asked if he had any regrets, here is what Sandusky told NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: Well, in retrospect, I shouldn't have showered with those kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And that, folks, may be the biggest understatement of the year.
Want to bring in clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere.
And Jeff, you have heard -- you heard the interview, heard his voice, heard his response, his justifications, what have you. Here's my question. If you have an underage patient come see you, says he's been in a shower alone with this middle-aged man, would that be enough for you to treat him as a victim of sex abuse?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It would make me, as a mandatory reporter, have to call that into the police right away, especially if that adult is not a biological parent, and if that child said that the biological parent was in any way acting indecently or inappropriately. We would have to call that in again as mandatory reporters.
BALDWIN: Jeff, I want to -- I watched the interview last night, and I just want to play you the part of the interview that certainly caused me pause. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COSTAS: Are you a pedophile?
SANDUSKY: No.
COSTAS: Are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys?
SANDUSKY: Am I sexually attracted to underage boys?
COSTAS: Yes.
SANDUSKY: Sexually attracted? You know, I enjoy young people. I love to be around them. I -- but, no, I'm not sexually attracted to young boys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Jeff, I'm no expert, but to hear him sort of pausing, repeating the question, finally gets around to answering it, what's your interpretation of the response?
GARDERE: That simply is Psych 101. When someone cannot answer the question yes or no, they have to take time, they have to repeat the question, that's a clear indication that they are thinking about it. And if you're thinking about it, then that means that something may be going on. And this is part of a denial, intellectualization, rationalization. Either way, where there is smoke, there is fire here, and there is something very, very wrong in what we're hearing from Mr. Sandusky.
BALDWIN: We played a clip of him earlier where he talked about, you know, yes, he hugged, he touched the legs of some of these young boys, without the intent -- I want to quote him -- "without the intent of sexual contact."
What do you make of his separation between showering with a child and having it be sex abuse?
GARDERE: Well, the fact that he's saying that there was no intent tells me that he has to define it. If you have to define it, then there is something wrong that's going on.
And we also know the fact that as a coach -- I don't care whether athletes shower with one another, but as a coach, you're in a position of power. Therefore, with all of the sexual abuse allegations, cases that we hear, just to protect yourself as an adult, you wouldn't put yourself in that position.
And if it's true that he did shower with that 10-year-old, and it was only the two of them there, and therefore, he may be exposing his genitals, he's horsing around, as he says, with this kid as they are in the shower, or naked, I think that certainly this man is showing all of the classical symptoms of being a pedophile, especially by rationalizing all of this. I can't understand how his attorney would even allow him to open up his mouth about any of this.
BALDWIN: Well, his attorney says he was just a big kid. We should also point out he wasn't a coach at that the time of that particular shower incident. But as part of the deal, he could come back on the campus and use the facilities and whatnot.
Dr. Jeff Gardere, I appreciate your expertise.
GARDERE: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up, we're going to continue this conversation. We're going to talk to a man who says he was helped by The Second Mile charity. It took him from a C student to now he's getting his master's degree. I want to know what he felt hearing Sandusky in that interview last night on NBC, and if he ever felt uncomfortable whatsoever around the former Penn State coach.
That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: So, Jerry Sandusky is accused of meeting and grooming all of his alleged victims through this charity, The Second Mile charity, that he founded way back in 1977. Second Mile says it has helped thousands of children throughout the state of Pennsylvania, be it physical, academic, personal successes. And one of them is joining me right now, Thomas Day, a Penn State grad, former Second Mile child.
And Thomas, got to get you to react to Sandusky's interview here in just a moment. But, first, during your days at Second Mile, how often were you around Jerry Sandusky? What was he like? And did you ever experience, witness, hear about anything inappropriate?
THOMAS DAY, FMR. SECOND MILE CHILD: Well, yes. Let me say right off the top that I was never harmed during my time at The Second Mile. I never heard of any of these alleged abuses, and I had nothing but the best experience with my time as a kid in The Second Mile, and then later as a mentor in The Second Mile.
My only experiences with Coach Sandusky are very few. I probably met him about six, seven, eight times. Of course, a man like that in State College is -- Jerry Sandusky always had a very prominent name, and I remembered a lot of my interactions with him, but I was never alone with Sandusky, and of course I was never harmed by him.
BALDWIN: OK. I want to play you -- I know you've watched this interview. Let's just play one more snippet. This is Jerry Sandusky with NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: We were showering and horsing around, and he actually turned all the showers on, and was actually sliding across the floor. And we were, as I recall, possibly like snapping a towel in horseplay.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: When you hear that, Thomas, what are you thinking?
DAY: Well, it would be a big relief if all of what Coach Sandusky said were accurate, that this were just some big misunderstanding and we could move on. But let's think about this for a moment. We have now, what, nine confirmed kids that were --
BALDWIN: Eight.
DAY: -- alleged to have been abused by this man? Eight? OK. I think I read that there was a ninth recently, but I take your word for it.
And then look at the situation with Coach Mike McQueary, an eyewitness who was then 28 years old, who was looking to start a career as a football coach. It doesn't seem to me to be a particularly smart career advancement strategy to accuse a man who was not his boss at that point, but is essentially his boss, of sexual assault.
BALDWIN: But when you hear, just reactionarily (ph), off of Sandusky, his words last night with that interview with Bob Costas, his emotion, his stories, what is your visceral reaction?
DAY: Coach Sandusky will have his day in court, and he will have a chance to explain his actions.
But, you know, as long as he was involved with kids, since the 1970s, he knows that he should not be showering with 10-year-old boys. And the interview last night did absolutely nothing to ease my objections and ease my concerns about what I read in the grand jury indictment. So my reaction is the same as the one I had when I read the grand jury indictment, and that's one of outrage.
BALDWIN: OK.
Back to Second Mile, Thomas, you were 15 years of age. You credit the program, as you mentioned at the top of the interview, for turning your life around. But at the same time, in this op-ed in "The Washington Post" you write, and I'm quoting you, "I was one of the lucky ones."
What do you mean by all of that?
DAY: Well, you know, I know it's a very difficult thing for a lot of people, you know, outside of The Second Mile to understand that an organization that was founded by a man who is alleged to be a monster could just do so much good, but it has. And I am a living example of that.
I went into The Second Mile. My mom got me enrolled into the program as a 15-year-old kid.
I was 120 pounds, not doing very well in school. And The Second Mile really taught me to do things I never thought I could. I'm working on my second master's degree now. I'm at the University of Chicago's Public Policy School. And I served a five- year enlistment in the 101st Airborne Division.
These are all things that I never could have done if I hadn't been mentored by the people at Second Mile and given the confidence to do these things that I never thought I could.
BALDWIN: Well, wonderful for you, but as we now know, the CEO resigning after 28 years, and that could be the beginning of others leaving this charity as well as a result of this story that's exploded there at Penn State.
Thomas Day, I appreciate you coming on. Thank you.
It has been a bloody -- a very bloody -- 24 hours in Syria, with more than 80 people reportedly killed just yesterday. Well, now Turkey is threatening its neighbor if this violence doesn't stop. We're going to tell you what Turkey might do, next.
And here's something we haven't exactly seen in a while. Look at this, emptiness. An empty Zuccotti Park in New York City. This was early this morning after the mayor kicked out all those Occupy protesters.
Now they want back in and the courts are getting involved. We're going to take you live to New York City coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The next couple of hours are very, very critical for Syria, its future with fellow Arab countries and really the rest of the world. So, tomorrow, Syria will be officially suspended from the Arab League unless leaders in Damascus take some very drastic steps to end the nearly year-long crackdown on people there protesting the government. And that doesn't look likely.
The numbers of dead and wounded from street clashes has not dropped. In fact, just yesterday alone, an opposition group says more than 80 people across the country were killed when troops and protesters fought in the streets.
Hala Gorani, joining me from CNN International.
And before we even really sort of look at some of the pictures from today, the fact that Syria will be booted from the Arab League, huge deal.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Right. It is a huge deal. I wouldn't call it a huge deal --
BALDWIN: Why?
GORANI: -- because as an organization, the Arab League is not seen as a proactive organization that will implement measures that will, in a substantial way, at least in the short term, force Assad to make concessions or to go. Right?
But it is symbolically very important, and the Arab League is composed of governments that are autocratic, in some cases dictatorial, in some cases monarchies, that aren't known for their democratic openness. So, even at this stage, even they are saying what is happening in Syria is unacceptable by the standards of the Arab League. And so it's adding to the isolation of the Assad regime, alongside Turkey, the European Union, that has increased sanctions against Syria, and the U.N.
BALDWIN: Talk me through some of the pictures that we've been seeing today. What are we looking at?
GORANI: Well, again, we cannot independently verify the images we see.
That is a live stream from Homs, in western Syria, that came up online just a few minutes ago. And it was one that we were able to air on CNN International. Homs is the flash point city right now of the anti-Assad movement.
What's interesting, Brooke, today, and what I wanted to underline, is the evolving deaths in the country. We're seeing more than 80 deaths, according to an opposition group. But what's interesting is that some of the deaths are attributed to defecting soldiers who have taken up arms against regular army soldiers.
So, it's not just a result of the crackdown by the government on the protesters, but it's also clashes between deserters and regular army officers and soldiers. And if this spreads, this will re-ignite fears that the country will sink into a bloody, prolonged civil conflict.
BALDWIN: Turkey says they might cut off electricity. We heard from the king of Jordan, saying that it's time for Assad to step down. These are friends of Syria.
What about the West? What about Europe? What would sanctions do from them?
GORANI: Well, Turkey is a former friend of Syria. They had a period where they warmed to each other and they increased trade and business ties. But really, over the last few months, the Turkish government and the leadership there has distanced itself, has openly criticized Bashar al-Assad, and now the energy minister is saying if this continues, we will cut off electricity supplies.
It's an open question who that would hurt, by the way? Would it be ordinary Syrians or would it be the regime?
As far as the U.N. and the EU, these sanctions -- and as far as the U.N. is concerned -- calls for President Bashar al-Assad to stop killing his own people. The EU increased sanctions. They continue to isolate the regime, but it is not something that we're going to see have an impact in the short term. This is something that's going to go on for months and months before there's a resolution. BALDWIN: And this has been going on for months and months.
GORANI: For eight months now. But just to put things in perspective, 80 people dead in a country of a little over 20 million. I mean, this is not the United States, 1,000 dead in one day.
This is not a small number. It's a shocking figure for country in a single day. So, you know, if you put it in perspective that way, it gives you a sense of the proportions.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Hala Gorani, thank you so much.
And they are not taking no for an answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: "Occupy Wall Street" protesters marching back to the New York City Park. They were kicked out overnight with court documents in hand. We are live in Zuccotti Park next. Also, this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a pause. That's all it was. Good grief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Herman Cain defending his response to questions about Libya.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The situation is getting a little tense today at "Occupy Wall Street." The original "Occupy Wall Street" here. Hours after riot police kicked these protesters out and started tearing down their tents, the judge said, hold on.
She issued this court order saying that demonstrators can stay, but police have not let them back in yet. That's not going over very well. Poppy Harlow has been covering the story all day for us. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: Do you think you're going to get into the park? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a protective order.
HARLOW: Tell me about this document. What is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a restraining order against Mayor Bloomberg.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to go to the judge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is our park!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have authority over a judge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our constitutional rights.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our constitutional rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To move freely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without obstruction.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Without obstruction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to move now.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: We need to move now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not want a problem.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: We do not want a problem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park?
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose park? UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Our park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a court order.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Move down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are violating a federal judge's order. Do you understand that?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: All right. Let's go to Maggie Lake who is also covering the story for us today. Maggie, both sides on the standoff, we know they went back to court this afternoon after the judge issued the first court order. Where does the hearing stand right now?
MAGGIE LAKE, BUSINESS ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT, CNNI: From what we understand, Brooke, it's been going on all day. Both sides have made their arguments. We have recessed and we are waiting for the judge to make a ruling. We're expecting that to come around 3:15.
But as you know, it's been a very fluid situation all day. I want you to take a look behind me now. You saw a lot of the pushing and shoving from poppy's piece right now, a lot of tension throughout the day. Some conflict between peace and protesters.
Right now, it's seen as a bit calmer. The police have fallen back a bit into the middle the park. The barricades still very much up around the park and the protesters are still lined up around that park. It's worth pointing out that it is a very warm, mild day.
The numbers here, as the days have regressed, have been growing. More people have been coming down here, more protesters turning back up. They are very upset about what they say is their legal right to go back into that park.
Everybody is waiting to see what the judge says. But we have talked to the protesters throughout and they say no matter what the ruling is, they are not leaving.
BALDWIN: They say they are not going anywhere. We'll wait and see what the outcome of that hearing next hour. Maggie Lake, thank you so much.
Now we kind of have a sense of what is going on today at "Occupy Wall Street." Let's talk about another city because you know there are demonstrations happening nationwide. But you might not have heard too much about Occupy D.C.
And as it turns out, that protest is a lot different than a number of others. Our photo journalist, Oliver Janney went to the park where that's all happening. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEVIN ZEESE, ORGANIZER: We're standing on 13th and Pennsylvania Avenue and White House and the Congress. I'm a lawyer and I've been a political advocate for quite some time.
DR. MARGARET FLOWERS, ORGANIZER: I practiced pediatrics for 15 years. We're saying publicly that what is happening in this country is no longer acceptable and we want to do something about it.
ZEESE: We have "Occupy" public space here in Freedom Plaza since October 6th and I think during that time we've affected the political dialogue and we're just getting started. We've tried all of the e- mail petitions and phone calls and it just get just gets ignored.
MARIEL ESCOBAR, PROTESTER: It's more important to be here in Washington, D.C., at this point in time. I've had many occupations over the years. I'm a wildlife biologist.
When somebody who wants peace on the planet is considered some kind of an extremist and people who are war profiteers are treated as demigods. The world is upside.
GREGORY HICKS, PROTESTER: I have a degree from the fine arts from the institute of Chicago. I studied at the American Conservatory of Music.
We're all hoping to accomplish some kind of a human form of government, a mandate of the federal government and government in general should be to include the human needs of every citizen. Not just the wealthy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: So I've got my hands on this piece of paper. Take a look if you can see it here. This is what you have to fill out if you want to "Occupy D.C." or if you want to Occupy Freedom Park.
On it you have your name, emergency contact information that you have to fill out, medical information, and also at the bottom it talks about you have to sign, I won't carry weapons, I won't vandalize property and I'll expect quiet hours between 11:00 at night and 7:00 in the morning. That's just a few of the things for "Occupy D.C." How about that? Now, this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: They asked me a question about Libya and I paused to I could gather my thoughts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Well, it was a bit of a pause and we have the video. We're going to share it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain had one of those moments every candidate would like to forget. This happened during this Q and A season with reporters and editors at Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. His spokesperson later said the remarks were, quote, "out of context in some measure." We want to play the longer portion of the interview that perhaps you may not have seen this and you be the judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do you agree with President Obama on Libya or not?
CAIN: OK. Libya. President Obama supported the uprising, correct? President Obama called for the removal of Gadhafi. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing before I say yes I agreed that I know I didn't agree.
I do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reasons. Nope, that's a different one. I've got to go back -- see -- I've got all this stuff twirling around in my head. Specifically, what are you asking me did I agree or not disagree with President Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was asking you did you agree about the Bush foreign policy so I'm taking a specific example from the Obama administration that was controversial within his own administration on what he should have done or not done.
And I was wondering if you agreed or if you would have responded differently and has the initiative come up since you've been running for office and I was wondering how you would have handled it.
CAIN: Here's what I would have done a better job of determining who the opposition is and I'm sure that our intelligence people had some of that information. Based upon who made up that opposition, based upon who made up that opposition, might have caused me to make some different decisions about how we participated.
And, secondly, no, I did not agree with Gadhafi killing its citizens, absolutely not. So something would have to have -- I would have supported many of the things that they did in order to help stop that.
It's not a simple yes or no because there are different pieces and I would have gone about assessing the situation differently, which might have caused us to end up at the same place. But what I think more what could have been done was, what's the nature of the opposition?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Cain later said he simply paused to gather his thoughts and called the attention to this and his answer we just played for you, quote, "silly."
Moving on to a story a lot of you tweeted me about yesterday and you can continue to do so today. Sharing your thoughts on this heart-wrenching story of an 18-year-old who took her own life last week after taking to Twitter, 144 times, to detail her years of alleged sexual abuse. I'm going to speak with her mother live, next.
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BALDWIN: Now to the Texas teenager who sent flooded messages to Twitter hours before she killed herself. A lot of you actually tweeted me yesterday after we told you about 18-year-old Ashley Ballisano.
She sent 144 tweets in the course of six hours detailing years of sexual abuse, the pain it caused her, and the struggle for justice. According to one tweet, the final straw was a phone call telling her it was unlikely her alleged abuser would be prosecuted.
Shortly after that message, Ashley committed suicide. Tiffany is Ashley's mother. She is on the phone with me from Houston. Tiffany, the pictures we have been showing of Ashley appear to be a smiling, happy teenager.
I read that she wanted to be an actress. She wanted to go on to Baylor College. Of course, my condolensces out to you. If you can please just tell us a little bit about Ashley. What was she like?
TIFFANY RUIZ LESKINEN, ASHLEY BALLISANO'S MOTHER (via telephone): Ashley was the happiest person that I knew. She was extremely outgoing and loving. She loved everyone that she ever came in contact with. She knew what she wanted out of life.
BALDWIN: At -- Ashley, I know she was called Billy by a lot of people. During her funeral, her best friend wrote her -- read part of her farewell letter and I'm going to quote, "I've been screwed over one too many times. This is your daughter writing. I've been called a shut one too many times. All I ask is, why me? I never did anything to anyone. I have been abused and tormented my whole life. It got to be too much and swallowed me whole."
Tiffany, did you have any idea your daughter had such inner demons?
LESKINEN: Well, of course knowing about the abuse, I knew, you know, somewhat what she was struggling with. I didn't know, though, about the bullying and name calling. I knew just very little about that. I just found out recently that she was struggling with bulimia.
One of her friends told me that she had suffered from it in the past due to the name calling just about her body image. She was called fat and that sort of thing. She really wasn't. She was just beautiful. She's really sensitive, though.
Of course, I have some idea of knowing what she went through and what she had been through her life, but I didn't know that it was so intense.
BALDWIN: Let me back up. The first period of her life, the first seven years of her age, she was victimized by her stepfather, your ex. He went to jail. He's still in jail. Fast forward, she's 15, 16, 17, she tweeted that she was sexually abused again by a close family member. I know she wasn't living with you at the time.
LESKINEN: Right.
BALDWIN: So talk to me about what specifically you knew. What did Ashley share with you about this alleged abuse?
LESKINEN: She was not able to open up to me until after she told her friend and told authorities and once I was able to get her and bring her here, that's when she was able to open up to me.
BALDWIN: What did she share, if I may ask?
LESKINEN: Sure, she was devastated. She trusted this person. He protected her and he's the one who hurt her. She -- it was really bad and it was a period of, you know, 3-1/2 years ago, and there was a lot of manipulation and control over her.
And she felt like she could not -- she expressed to me that if she had been trying to tell, that nobody believed her and she in fact tried to reach out to her stepmother about 2-1/2 years ago and to the round rock police and at that time they dismissed it. Nobody went back to follow up on her.
BALDWIN: I want to ask you about that specifically because I know that's some of what she was tweeting about and perhaps the final straw for her.
But during this 3-1/2 year time period that you detail -- so you never knew about that story in that period of time? You never then could yank her out of that situation and bring her home? Is that correct?
LESKINEN: Which time? I'm sorry.
BALDWIN: The 3-1/2 years of this alleged abuse.
LESKINEN: No, I did not know. From what she showed me and the rest of the family and her friends and teachers was that she was happy, that she was really well adjusted.
She was really great about putting on a happy facade and so much so that he we believed it. Those that were extremely close to her. There with her every day, her friends in the Austin area, they had no idea.
BALDWIN: So I read that -- so Ashley is 17. She has a boyfriend and she finally feels comfortable enough to share with her boyfriend these stories of this alleged abuse. She then shares this information with a teacher and child services.
I want you to tell me about the CPS worker, how this individual reacted to this teacher and Ashley's stories of abuse and also the detectives that were assigned to the case. LESKINEN: She felt like she had to explain -- it was almost as if they were treating her as if she was the one under investigation instead of her being the victim. She felt like they were really insensitive to what had gone on.
And, you know, they say that they did what they could to protect her, but they let her back into the home where she was abused, living with the people that lived with her at the time of the abuse. And I could not get a phone call.
They say that they tried to call me. Ashley was secluded. You know, she had her cell phone taken away from her. She had her laptop taken away from her. She could not talk to her little sisters there. She has two little sisters. She could not speak to them. This is what she told me. She couldn't reach out to me. I had to hear it from her boyfriend.
BALDWIN: I do want to say that we reached out to Child Protective Services. It's important to hear their side of the story as well. Let me read you what CPS told us today and I quote this.
"We were extraordinarily saddened to hear about Ashley Billisanos decision to take her own life. Earlier this year, cps conducted a thorough five-month investigation with 11 individuals who we believed might have had relevant information to share with us.
As a result of that investigation, we were unable to confirm the abuse had occurred. However, because of Ashley's death, we are taking a second look at the case and our focus will be to ensure that any remaining children in the household are free from abuse.
Tiffany, let me point out that I spoke to the assistant D.A. of Travis County just yesterday. She told me absolutely that the local police department was investigating. They pass it along to the D.A. Office.
So I just want to -- if I can just press you a little more, where exactly specifically -- how did Ashley get this idea that the investigation wasn't going anywhere because clearly it is active. She tweeted about a phone call.
LESLIKEN: I received a phone call from the Detective Williams saying that she had received her cell phone back from the FBI crime lab and Ashley let them know that there were text messages between her and her abusers, explicit pictures and things like that and that was really the only proof, in her mind, that she thought, other than her word, was going to be available.
And when they called me and said that they could not get anything from that phone, that's when her spirit dropped. She gave up. She felt like nothing was going to happen. Nobody was ever going to believe her.
I did not share with Ashley that CPS -- what CPS' conclusion was about the case because I knew that that would hurt her. It's just astounds me and angers me that they would take the victim's story and not hold any weight to them at all because they are listening to the accused and what he is saying. In my mind, that is wrong. That is absolutely wrong.
BALDWIN: Well, just because your daughter's gone doesn't mean we won't follow the story to the end and see where this investigation goes. Tiffany Ruiz Leskinen, thank you for calling in. And again, I am so sorry about your daughter. We can do better. We'll be right back.
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BALDWIN: And now for your America's Choice 2012 political update, let's go to Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Wolf, talk to me about these poll numbers.
