Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Gadhafi Son Reported Captured; Joe Paterno Has Treatable Lung Cancer; Actor Isaiah Washington Talks Sierra Leone

Aired November 19, 2011 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I don't have to have it.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Nothing.

WHITFIELD: No.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: I don't have to have it. Because if I'm going to camp out, it's for the campout experience and that's what I get. I don't want to -- yes, I'm not -- no, store for things? I don't think so.

HOLMES: Going to camp out on the couch now.

WHITFIELD: OK. Good. You enjoy camping out the rest of this afternoon. Thanks so much, T.J.

All right, we've got a lot of stories straight ahead, including this, Moammar Gadhafi's son, Saif, is now in custody. Saif al-Islam Gadhafi has been on the run since his father was driven out of power. Libya's National Transitional Council says he was caught after a fire fight in the desert between the southwestern town of Obari and the southern town of Sabha.

CNN's senior international correspondent Matthew Chance joining us right now from London with more details on this. He had been on the run for a long time. He was very close to what he thought might be exile or safety.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it seems so. I've spoken to the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which is where there have been indictments issued against Saif al- Islam Gadhafi for crimes against humanity, such as the involvement in mass murder in Libya.

And they say they've had contacts indirectly with Saif Gadhafi through intermediaries to discuss his possible surrender to the ICC in The Hague. But obviously that has been taken over by events. His convoy was apparently captured in the south of Libya, Saif Gadhafi taken by aircraft to Zintan in the western mountains where we understand he's currently being held.

What I have learned also from the ICC, speaking to them in The Hague within the last few minutes, is that they are dispatching one of their chief prosecutors to Libya next week, they haven't given an exact time yet, to discuss with the Libyan authorities what's going to happen now to Saif Gadhafi.

Because this is really the big question, I mean, everybody wants to avoid this internationally, everybody wants to avoid him meeting the same fate as his father who was, of course, killed after he was arrested in Sirte last month.

What the international community wants to see now is for justice to be done in a courtroom with Saif Gadhafi. And so we'll see.

WHITFIELD: And so, Matthew, what kind of physical condition was he in? What will be next in terms of -- you know, before all of that transporting takes place?

CHANCE: Well, it's interesting because initially there weren't any reports of any injuries. But then as the sort of hours passed and the minutes passed, more detail came through to us and it seemed that there had been some injuries inflicted. You can see in the photograph that has been distributed of Saif al-Islam Gadhafi. His hand is bandaged up, and it's not clear whether that was from a previous bit of contact with the Libyan authorities or whether it was something that resulted in his -- from his capture.

But nevertheless he seems to be, as far as we understand it, in pretty good physical condition but maybe a few injuries here and there.

WHITFIELD: All right. Matthew Chance, thanks so much for the update, coming from London.

So here's some background on Saif al-Islam Gadhafi. He is 39 years old. He is the oldest son of Moammar Gadhafi's second wife Safia. He was educated at the London School of Economics and speaks fluent English. And while his father was in power he was considered a possible successor.

Once seen as an advocate of reform, he later became an outspoken defender of his father's brutal regime.

On to Washington now, the deadline clock is ticking this weekend for the congressional super committee. It's trying to trim the federal deficit and still no deal. The deadline is Wednesday. The committee must cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit. If there is no agreement, that would trigger automatic across the board budget cuts. Democratic co-chair Parry Murray says taxes are the key sticking point.

Now to the Penn State child molestation scandal. Former football coach Joe Paterno's son Jay is speaking out. He says his father, who was fired after the scandal broke, has had his world turned upside- down. But, he says, the main concern should be focused on the alleged victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY PATERNO, SON OF JOE PATERNO: Pretty surreal, I mean, it's almost like the Book of Job, I mean, I'm not a Bible scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but Job went from having everything to having nothing. And it's not quite like that. But I think to keep in perspective, one of the things Joe has said to me throughout all of this is we have to make sure we keep focus on the victims of this whole tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Other developments involving Penn State, former coach Joe Paterno says he has been diagnosed with a treatable form of lung cancer. And in the investigation, the NCAA, which oversees college athletics, is now getting involved. CNN's Mike Galanos is live now from University Park, Pennsylvania.

So, Mike, explain the NCAA investigation.

MIKE GALANOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, they are calling it a formal review, Fred. And what it means is that it was a three-page letter, NCAA to Penn State. And at the end there were four questions the university has to answer, submit those answers by the middle of December.

Let me get you a couple of highlights as I went through that three- page letter. One of them is, and it hits to Joe Paterno, saying the coach has to monitor activities of assistant coaches and administrators in and around the program.

Another section applies here when it says you have to do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Again, the four questions the NCAA wants answers by September 16th, to be exact, and Penn State released a statement saying they were going to fully cooperative, they're on the same page, the goal here is to find out what happened and why it happened and make sure something like this never happens again.

WHITFIELD: And, so, Mike, would this NCAA investigation or the results of this investigation in any way be shared with local authorities or even federal investigators who have their own probes going?

GALANOS: Well, the NCAA says they will be looking at criminal investigations as they draw their conclusions. So they are going to be finding out that information, looking at the information for all doing investigations here.

And you think about what the NCAA could do, when you consider how popular football is here, they could lose scholarships, they may be banned from bowl games, and there's even the term -- it's not a NCCA term, more of a media term, the death penalty, that's when a school is -- you go so far you can't play football for one year, it would be devastating to the folks here at State College.

WHITFIELD: And now what about the charity, Second Mile, that Jerry Sandusky allegedly -- where he allegedly found many of his victims? What do we know about how it's operating and what's taking place involving the many volunteers or people who worked for that organization? GALANOS: What we know now, Fred, is that they are examining their options, basically they're saying at this point they have three options on the table, they may continue to operate at a reduced scale. They are talking with their donors and their supporters. They may also basically farm out their operations, in other words, different charities would handle different portions of what Second Mile does right now.

Number three is they could just completely fold. And basically folks around here who have given money say, you know what, at the very least, the name has to change just because the connotations.

And real quick, I had a chance to talk to a former board member of Second Mile. His name is Jerry Fisher. He is also a radio talk show host, and he talked about the 100,000 kids a year get helped by this and he talked a little bit about the help that this organization does.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY FISHER, FORMER SECOND MILE BOARDMEMBER: There are many programs within The Second Mile organization, from Tips cards that have picked -- they're baseball cards where kids -- Penn State student athletes' pictures are on the front and you turn it over and it has a "tip" for a kid who might be having trouble in school with friends, bullying, things like that.

There are mentorship programs to teach kids how to be better at what they do, whether it be standing up in front of a crowd or working on their homework or things like that, 100,000 kids a year touched by The Second Mile organization.

And the sad thing to me is that there are going to be a lot of kids who are not going to be able to take advantages of the great services that The Second Mile did indeed provide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALANOS: And, you know, Fred, I had a chance to go to a small Second Mile activity, just kids working with Penn State students running around. It was just nice to see. At the end of the day you just hope these kids who need help will get it from whomever.

WHITFIELD: Sure. All right. Mike Galanos, thanks so much.

All right. Hitting the campaign trail now, most of the Republican presidential hopefuls head for Iowa at the invitation of conservative groups. More on that in a moment. And then this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISAIAH WASHINGTON, ACTOR: My exit from grace was definitely a catalyst, for sure. Even in loss, you gain, even in loss, you win. Even in an "L" you get a "W."

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Actor Isaiah Washington lost a critical television role after offending his castmates and viewers by using a homophobic slur. Four years later he has written a book about self-discovery that followed. We talk face-to-face coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A big day for Republicans who want to be president. Most of them are in Iowa, the first state to hold a presidential contest. Our political reporter Shannon Travis is in Des Moines.

So who is there and who will be talking today -- Shannon.

SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Fred, you have got six presidential candidates and a few thousand Christian conservatives. It's basically a Thanksgiving Day forum with a big plate of politics. You're going to have Michele Bachmann, the two Ricks, Rick Santorum, the former Pennsylvania senator, Rick Perry, the Texas governor, Herman Cain, Ron Paul, and Newt Gingrich, they're all coming here.

It's a conservative forum of evangelicals sponsored by a group called The Family Leader. Now why does this matter to anyone outside of Iowa? Because this group, this group could potentially propel any one of these candidates on to a win in the "first in the nation" Iowa Caucuses.

They did that -- they helped do that for Mike Huckabee in the last cycle. They could potentially do that for one of these candidates here. So you had better believe that all of these six candidates who are here want to talk about themselves, what they would do if they were president, play up their messages, play up their platform.

The format, we're being told, all of the six candidates will be around a table, a Thanksgiving Day table having a family-type discussion. The pollster Frank Luntz will be the moderator. And we're told by organizers, Fred, that they don't want to know so much what they are against but they want to know what they are for and who these candidates are -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK. So you showed six candidates who are there. We saw a full screen picture of all of them. But Mitt Romney is not one of them. Why not?

TRAVIS: Yes, Mitt Romney is not here. He's essentially the front- runner or running really high in the polls for Iowa and nationwide also. He's going to be holding, get this, Fred, a town hall in New Hampshire at the same time as this forum is going on.

There are two different schools of thought about Mitt Romney. Some say, you know what, he's putting all of his money -- staking all of his early primary candidacy in New Hampshire and not paying as much -- he has been here a few times but not as much as the other candidates.

Another school of thought, some critics here in Iowa tell me and others that, you know what, he is ignoring Iowa at his political peril. WHITFIELD: All right. And when are they going to be facing off again? The CNN debate coming this Tuesday?

TRAVIS: That's right. On Tuesday, that's the next time these -- all of the candidates face off at 8:00 in Washington, focused exclusively on national security, Fred. I can't wait.

WHITFIELD: I know. People are going to be at the edge of their seats on that one, of course, hosted by our Wolf Blitzer. Thanks so much, Shannon Travis, from Des Moines, we appreciate that.

And, of course, you want to join us every Sunday afternoon at 4:00 Eastern when we dedicate an entire hour to the presidential contenders in this 2012 election.

All right. There are ways that you can save money still on holiday flights. We'll give you an idea in about 90 seconds from now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A look at the top stories straight ahead, including the latest on the child molestation scandal at Penn State. Some of the key players in the scandal are talking, we'll check in with our legal guys for their thoughts on what's going on.

Finding a cheap flight home for the holidays can be quite the hassle, but Reynolds Wolf is "On the Go" with some tips on how you can buy your ticket and still afford the presents on the list.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you've waited to buy your ticket home for the holidays, your procrastination may pay off.

LAUREN SULLIVAN, CHEAPFLIGHTS.COM: We recommend waiting until after Thanksgiving to look for flight deals. And we suspect that the first week of December is when you're going to find the lowest fares.

WOLF: Flights on the days leading up to Christmas are often the busiest and most expensive, so consider a late start to your holiday.

SULLIVAN: Fly on Christmas morning, you are going to get the best flight deals then, and also airlines really make an effort to make it feel festive on the holiday itself.

The same thing applies to the New Year, so if you're able to fly leading up to the countdown, you know, you can celebrate at 35,000 feet in the air.

WOLF: If you want to bring along presents, think about avoiding the baggage fees.

SULLIVAN: A lot of times it makes more sense to ship your presents or to buy them online. And if you do have to bring your presents, don't wrap them, because airport security can go through them. WOLF: And leave space in your bag for the gifts you might get this holiday season.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Would you believe that they are already camping out for Black Friday deals in Florida? A couple has pitched a tent in front of the Best Buy store at a mall in St. Petersburg. Tito Hernandez (ph) and Christine Orta (ph) set up their campsite on Monday night. And their goal is to be the first in line to buy a cheap flat screen TV on Black Friday.

The store manager is quite happy to see that tent-pitching couple. And of course, the manager is welcoming everyone to come out to the store to do the same.

Penn State is not the only university dealing with accusations of child molestation, our legal guys take up the claims against a Syracuse coach next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: More now on the Penn State matter where a former coach is charged with sexually abusing young boys. A lot of he said/she said now, possibly more victims and calls for reform. Let's bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland. Good to see you.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor, joining us from Vegas. Good to see you as well.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Gentlemen. Avery, you first. Now we're talking about the NCCA that's also investigating. How might that investigation either be coupled with or conflict with the federal investigation and local investigations under way involving Penn State?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, it won't conflict. These are all concurrent investigations. And I have to tell you Fredricka, I'm thrilled that the NCAA is coming in just like Florida, just like Ohio State, now Penn State. Not only are they going to take a look on at what's going on with potential child abuse or child abuse issues, but they are actually going to look at the issues of control.

Who's calling the shots? Now this is explosive because football at schools like Penn State rule the university. And we're going to see some changes. The NCAA (ph) is going to be zeroing in not only on this, but the entire structure. That's a wonderful thing that should be happening. And I'm thrilled to hear it.

WHITFIELD: Yes, the NCAA. OK, so, Richard, how do you see this as a compliment to these investigations? HERMAN: Well, Fred, you know, it's like Detective Alonzo Harris said in "Training Day," it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. Here, there's going to be an uphill battle to prove all of these allegations.

You know, that 2002 victim that McQueary says he looked in and saw being raped in the shower, the police don't have him. They haven't interviewed this young man yet, however the defense attorney says he has him and he's going to deny it. That's a huge bullet into the prosecution case.

Now McQueary is babbling in emails and giving interviews and he is giving contradictory statements. I think because it's a criminal investigation, Fred, I don't know that the NCAA is going to go too far. I think people are going to assert their Fifth Amendment rights, as they should do, and they should not talk. Anybody at Penn State should not talk.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, talk about talking, then, let's talk about the lack of cooperation or the conflicting accounts of what took place. Then you have Jerry Sandusky, who is going on NBC earlier this week who talked quite openly and fluidly, you know, Avery, however, he was careful about his language, but I wonder if investigators can look at the interview...

HERMAN: Really?

WHITFIELD: He was fairly careful about his language. I wonder if investigators can look at the interview and say to themselves, OK, he may not have admitted to going so far as to sexual molestation of children, but can they go to intent as a result of what he said?

FRIEDMAN: Well, look, I mean, I am stunned. He has a lawyer and...

HERMAN: Really?

FRIEDMAN: ... unless Jerry signed off on waivers, unless he signed off, this is the definition of ineffective assistance of counsel. I don't care if he specifically denied that he sexually abused this child, but the things that he talked about with Bob Costas are stunning. I mean, it's amazing, it's going...

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: He did admit to putting his hand on young boys' legs or horseplay in the shower.

FRIEDMAN: I mean, yes, horsing around, give me a break. Why in the world would a lawyer let his client go on television to talk about that and say things? Clearly it's going to be incriminating, there's no doubt about it.

WHITFIELD: Well, I wonder, you know...

HERMAN: You know, Fred, when they...

WHITFIELD: Richard, go ahead.

HERMAN: I'm sorry, when they asked him, are you sexually attracted to young boys? And he paused.

WHITFIELD: There was a pause.

HERMAN: Then he asked to repeat the question instead of saying emphatically, no, no! Right? He paused and then he wanted a repeat. It was horrible, Fred. Whether they -- I'm sorry, they may have taken a page out of Conrad Murray, in case he doesn't want to testify at trial, he's going to give the self-serving interviews now and then play them as his defense at trial. It's just not going to work because he was horrible in that interview.

WHITFIELD: OK. So we're talking about the testimony of eye witness accounts or recollections will weigh heavy because we don't have a case where there is DNA, where there is physical evidence.

But statute of limitations, where does that play into these alleged acts, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Well, statute of limitations is important for purposes of civil claims. I mean, many of these victims are substantially older.

WHITFIELD: But it's irrelevant here?

FRIEDMAN: I mean, a natural question -- well, I think it is. I think the question is, why did it take so long for these victims to assert themselves? Obviously the answer both at Penn State and at Syracuse -- and at Syracuse was, maybe they feel there's collateral inspiration coming out of Penn State and maybe that has inspired people to come forward.

I mean, there's evidence there. The question is, is there sufficient evidence to establish a crime? That's the issue. And in both instances it has to be looked into.

WHITFIELD: So, Richard, I'm wondering, Avery brought it up, you know, Syracuse University, are you seeing a similar path of the investigation that is unfolding accusing Syracuse assistant coach Bernie Fine, similar path that we are witnessing in a very big way of Penn State's investigation.

HERMAN: Well, first, Fred, on the Pennsylvania issue, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania makes it 30 years old. That's the cut off for any of these civil litigations by the alleged victims, 30 years old. So they still have time.

Now with respect to Syracuse, this was vetted and investigated at length, investigated by the university and others back in 1995. It does not appear at this point, Fred, that there's any new evidence or new -- there's no DNA, new anything to support these allegations, which are just recycled claims.

WHITFIELD: No corroboration there. HERMAN: No -- one of victims says, I have four people, law enforcement, go talk to them, they'll corroborate me. Law enforcement goes, no one corroborates the alleged victim. So this is what happens when maybe perhaps false claims are made and people see no action. Then nobody tends to believe any of these victims. It really has a stirring effect and I think that the Penn State thinks...

FRIEDMAN: But a vast...

(CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN: Syracuse is going to go away very fast, I think. A vast difference. That's right. There was an investigation at Syracuse, not at Penn State. Big, big difference.

WHITFIELD: All right. You talk about that 30-year statute of limitations. Now let's talk about a case when we come back, we're going to have you back and talk about a 30-year-old, what most thought was a closed case, investigation that it was an accidental death of Natalie Wood, now that case being reopened. We're going to talk about that with you all a bit later. Thanks so much, gentlemen.

And talk about stumbling across a big story, it was the last thing an Australian reporter expected to find, a briefing book with sensitive information about Barack Obama's visit there. We'll hear from him, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories now, Libyans are celebrating after news that Moammar Gadhafi's son Saif is in custody. Libya's National Transitional Council released this photo of Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, Moammar Gadhafi's second-oldest son. Revolutionary fighters say he was captured after a firefight in the Libyan desert. He was wanted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.

Former Penn State head coach Joe Paterno has a treatable form of lung cancer. That word from Paterno's family. Paterno was fired when word broke out of a child molestation scandal at the school. Former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky is accused of abusing young boys in that scandal.

And in another development, the NCAA is now investigating the scandal, the group oversees college athletics.

On Capitol Hill now, four days and counting before the deadline for the deficit-cutting super committee to come up with a plan. Right now still no deal. The committee must cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit. And if there's no deal, that would trigger automatic across the board budget cuts. Taxes are said to be the key sticking point.

There's a report of a serious security breach during President Barack Obama's stop in Australia this week. A newspaper reporter for The Sydney Morning Herald says he found a confidential briefing booklet in a gutter near the Australian Parliament Building. He says it contained a minute to minute details about Mr. Obama's schedule and he says he found it while the president was still in Australia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DYLAN WELCH, THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD: He would have been there for about another 14 hours. So I mean, there is a big if in this story. Obviously the big if is if it was foreign intelligence or a lone wolf kind of person with significant capability.

But if they did find it, they would have had 14 hours, and during that 14 hours they would have known to the minute where the president was. They would have known exactly what his convoy was comprised of.

And as you said earlier, they would have even known exactly which side of the limo he would be getting out of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: President Obama is heading home this morning after wrapping up his week-long trip to Asia.

And we thought the Justin Bieber paternity drama had gone away. That's what people thought. Well, it didn't. The paternity suit may have been dropped but the entire case is not over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Natalie Wood was a true Hollywood star, young, beautiful, and married to another star, Robert Wagner. Well, it was a real shock when she died 30 years ago, and now police are again looking into what happened that night. Our legal guys are back, Avery Friedman in Cleveland, and Richard Herman in Las Vegas.

All right. Gentlemen, Dennis Davern, he was the boat captain on this boat where she mysteriously slipped into the water and died. Now he is recounting details as to what happened.

Richard, he has written a book but now his details have prompted the L.A. Sheriff's Department to look into this one more time, reopen the investigation. His words alone, that's enough to reopen this investigation or is there more?

HERMAN: Fred, he's recounting and recanting. Here we are on the 30th anniversary. He has just written a book and now he's trying to free his guilt-ridden soul of the lies he told to law enforcement 30 years ago. Now he's going to come clean, on the eve of releasing his new book to tell a different story.

Police in L.A. did not interview Wagner, did not interview any of the witnesses, the captain, anybody on that boat. They just have all of a sudden concocted from some fake phone call that they got, some anonymous phone call there's sufficient new evidence to open this case.

It's ridiculous, Fred, it's a sham. This police force is under major investigation right now. They are looking to shift the focus. This is going nowhere, Fred. WHITFIELD: Really, going nowhere? So, Avery, you're in complete disagreement from the very top. Why?

(LAUGHTER)

FRIEDMAN: Well, look, I think...

WHITFIELD: I can see you nodding your head at the very beginning.

FRIEDMAN: I think when new evidence -- when new evidence surfaces, there's a responsibility and a duty on the part of law enforcement. L.A. sheriffs, they had a press conference this week saying there is significant evidence.

Whether or not there is -- that's a big difference between convicting somebody, of course they should look into it. And I think there are severe credibility issues. The fact that Robert Wagner was never interviewed or for that matter Christopher Walken was never interviewed is stunning. But we're 30 years later, look into it, but the conclusion that Richard came up with that is going nowhere, I agree with, I do.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, there is a statement coming from the Wagner camp saying "they fully support the efforts of the L.A. County Sheriff's Department and...

FRIEDMAN: Well, sure they are.

WHITFIELD: "... assure us that they will evaluate whether any new information relating to the death of Natalie Wood Wagner is valid and that it comes from a credible source and sources other than those simple trying to profit from the 30-year anniversary of her tragic death."

So it was ruled accidental, though. There was a ruling on this, Richard, 30 years ago. It was accidental. And we heard in that press conference, yes, there is evidence, but are we talking beyond eyewitness accounts? Does that mean that there is some physical evidence that makes homicide investigators want to take a second look?

HERMAN: Fred, I think this is a complete sham. I don't think there's any evidence. I think it's a farce by the police department to do this. They haven't released what the evidence is. And like Avery said, they did not interview Walken, they did not interview Wagner.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: He has since secured an attorney so perhaps Christopher Walken is expecting that he will be interviewed.

HERMAN: He wrote a book!

WHITFIELD: So, Avery...

HERMAN: Good! He wrote a book! WHITFIELD: So, Avery, do you feel fairly certain that while this is very public and this is unfolding in a very public way because it does involve a Hollywood star, that Christopher Walken can expect that he is going to be interviewed? That Robert Wagner can expect that he will be interviewed? That this really will be revisiting the initial investigation all over again?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it's revisiting in general sense, but they are going to get specifics. And the question really is when it comes down to it, when law enforcement comes knocking on the door and wants the interview, there's a real question whether either of these individuals would be willing to talk.

But also bear in mind that the science that has evolved in 30 years is significant. So I don't think we should really blow it off. Let's see how this evolves. Let's see how it evolves.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right. Let's talk about something else taking place involving Hollywood too, Justin Bieber, remember there was this pursuit that there would be a paternity test and lawsuit involving a Mariah Yeater, who says that he is the father of her child. Well, apparently she dropped the suit but she secured a new attorney. And there is still going to be a pursuit of some sort of paternity test for Justin Bieber.

So, Avery, can he be forced to comply to this test?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the issue of a paternity test is actually in the hands of children services. They could order it whether or not there's a pending case. But the bottom line is the fact that there's no jurisdiction in a civil matter ends whatever Yeater is trying to achieve here. They're trying to work it out privately.

I wonder if Justin Bieber's lawyers are even cooperating in this. That part we don't know. We know that Yeater is pursuing it through a different firm but I don't think this case is really going anywhere, 30 seconds backstage back in 2010 seems really unlikely that anything is going to happen here.

WHITFIELD: Oh boy. Oh yes. OK, Richard? Apparently there were some text messages that are -- I think reportedly these text messages would establish that she was having dialogue with somebody about whether this was true or not or trying to cash in on it et cetera. And now investigators want to try to get their hands on these erased messages. What are the chances of that?

HERMAN: Well, Avery, 30 seconds a couple years ago might have been OK for him, who knows? But anyway, as far as these text messages go, we don't know who...

FRIEDMAN: What?

HERMAN: ... wrote these messages. She withdrew the lawsuit. She withdrew the lawsuit, she says, because of death threats by Bieber fanatics. So they are seeking -- and I understand from what I've read, his lawyers are working with her lawyers to have a neutral paternity test done.

If they do that and it comes out good, we won't hear about this anymore. But if it comes out bad or we don't get the result, you can bet there has been a payoff here. So let's see how this unfolds.

(CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN: And we won't hear about the terms of payoff either. We won't hear about the terms of the payoff either.

HERMAN: Right. Exactly.

WHITFIELD: All right. I had to take a pause, you all got me a little tongue-tied on the whole 30-second thing. I was listening. I heard you. Golly. All right, gentlemen, thank you so much. Richard, Avery, always good to see you.

HERMAN: Hey, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HERMAN: Fred, in honor of your "Soul Train" visit, let me just sign off like Don used to do, in party, let me wish you a love, peace, and soul! Yes!

WHITFIELD: All right, I like it.

FRIEDMAN: You will never be Don Cornelius, never.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: He's one of your buddy's, right, Avery? I know.

FRIEDMAN: My buddy, that's right.

WHITFIELD: I know, I remember that. You and Don, tight. All right.

All right, thank...

FRIEDMAN: And Bootsy, you saw that with Bootsy, I know, what a moment. All right. Thanks so much. I was going back to the '70s for a second. All right. Back to the present. Richard, Avery, thanks so much, you all have a great one. See you next weekend.

And a closed case to tell you about now, James Arthur Ray, who ran a retreat in Arizona, has been sentenced to two years in prison, the self-help expert was convicted in connection with the deaths of three people back in 2009. They died from extreme heat during a sweat lodge ceremony.

And he played a life-saving doctor on television, now actor Isaiah Washington says he's saving real lives. Hear how in my "Face to Face" interview with Isaiah Washington, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: Top stories straight ahead, including one out of Florida that has a whole lot of people talking. It involves this person who claims to be a doctor and allegedly injected a woman with, get this, cement.

It has been four years since actor Isaiah Washington starred in the hit television show "Grey's Anatomy" as the self-assured Dr. Preston Burke, that is until he made an offensive remark back in 2007. In his new book, "A Man from Another Land," Washington talks about life after "Grey's Anatomy," the defeat, self-discovery, and his re-awakening in West Africa. We talk "Face to Face."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: I talked to a lot of viewers who couldn't wait to hear your story and find out where you are, where you've been in the last four years.

ISAIAH WASHINGTON, ACTOR, AUTHOR, "A MAN FROM ANOTHER LAND": Representing 6 million people, 6,000 villages, (INAUDIBLE) Gondobay Manga, my village, and I've already saved lives. In fact I have 500 students in my school. That's what I've been doing for the last four years.

And to get excited about saving real lives, that's the biggest -- I don't know, the biggest adrenalin rush that I could ever have for someone like me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WASHINGTON: I am Preston Burke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Had that experience at "Grey's Anatomy" not played out the way it did, would the inspiration to talk about this self-discovery or your mission and commitment to Sierra Leone...

WASHINGTON: That's a good question. That's a good question.

WHITFIELD: Would that have happened?

WASHINGTON: Obviously, my exit from grace was definitely a catalyst, for sure. Even in loss, you gain. Even in loss, you win. Even in an "L," you get a "W."

WHITFIELD: After making that discovery that you're the 99.9 percent of Sierra Leone ancestry, you have committed yourself to building schools, to changing lives of young people and their parents. Does this bring you greater gratification than reaching a pinnacle of your acting career ever could?

WASHINGTON: Now I get to be on the world stage. Seeing the smile on these faces that would have never had an opportunity to get an education ever?

WHITFIELD: So this helped you remove some of the misgivings you had about your blackness.

WASHINGTON: Completely.

WHITFIELD: That was imposed on you by all kinds of experiences along the way that made you feel insecure.

WASHINGTON: Inadequate. Ugly.

WHITFIELD: Inferior?

WASHINGTON: Yes. Mm-hmm. Unattractive, all of it. Broad-nosed, full lips, the whole thing. All of those negatives went away.

WHITFIELD: And that's what's extraordinary because you exude, through your characters, through who you are, a confident man, completely comfortable with the skin that you're in. Playing these powerful figures over a span of all these movies and television shows and that it would take this kind of moment, this DNA test for you to now feel complete.

It is really hard, I'm sure, for a lot of people to understand and embrace that...

WASHINGTON: Yes.

WHITFIELD: ... when you come across as completely OK with who you are.

WASHINGTON: I'm a good actor.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: So you felt like you were fooling yourself and fooling a lot of people along the way until this point?

WASHINGTON: No, just following the writing. Just following the writing.

WHITFIELD: So the last four years has been an incredible revelation for you?

WASHINGTON: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: Evolution for you. A lot of people who are watching movies, watching television, thinking, I'm not seeing Isaiah, I do remember seeing him from "Grey's Anatomy," and all they are thinking about is, gosh, what has happened? And may feel sorry for you because they are not seeing you like they once did. Your response is, don't feel sorry for me. This has been an incredible journey.

WASHINGTON: They helped thousands of children, thousands of adults that need job creation. So in that losing on this TV show, I now win as an ambassador for an entire country, to literally rebuild it in the next five to 10 years. In losing Dr. Burke, I've gained Isaiah. Truly gained Isaiah Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: So Isaiah Washington remains busy. This weekend he's in Florida discussing his memoir, "A Man from Another Land." And over the last few months Washington says he has produced two movies and one documentary. And you'll also see him on the big screen soon in the movies with "The Suspect." That's the title of one movie, and the other, "Area Q."

And then coming up today in our 2:00 Eastern hour, Washington reveals more details about his controversial departure from "Grey's Anatomy," I know that's what you want to hear in particular. And he will also reveal whether he tunes in from time to time to watch. So check us out at 2:00 Eastern time.

All right. What do you get when you take a puppy, and add an ice cube? An adorable viral video certain to make you smile, that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In other news there is new unrest in Egypt. Dozens of people were injured today when police clashed with protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square. One of the movements that toppled President Hosni Mubarak last spring is now telling members to resist the military government that replaced Mubarak.

Crews fighting that big wildfire near Reno, Nevada, say some evacuated residents will be able to return to their homes today. At least 25 homes have been destroyed since the blaze began.

And here's one of those stories you just can't make up. A Florida man who dresses like a woman and claims to be a doctor is now accused of injecting a patient with cement. The victim thought she was getting cosmetic surgery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. BILL BAMFORD, MIAMI GARDENS POLICE: They agree on a price of $700 for him to enhance her but buttocks, a short time later she develops very serious pains in her abdomen, throughout her body. She knows something is wrong. And that cocktail had serious complications and serious effects on this young lady.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And we have learned that the suspect, Oneal Ron Morris, is now out of jail. WPLG tells us that he posted a bond of $15,500, no idea where he might be right now.

We love those videos that go viral and so does Reynolds Wolf, and he's here to talk to me about the love of puppies and how you put puppies or kids on video and you put it on YouTube...

WOLF: It's always an adventure. You bring a dog into the mix and it just goes crazy. We're talking about just some incredible video. Let's go right to it and see this. What exactly do we have here? WHITFIELD: We have got a puppy that -- usually puppies like toys like shoes, or a little, you know, rawhide toys, this one is fascinated with this ice cube.

WOLF: And his name is David, what a beautiful puppy. I mean, this is -- it was just having this kind of, I guess a -- is he afraid of this? What do you think is going on here?

WHITFIELD: He's not sure whether to be afraid. OK, maybe it's a toy. I don't like it, maybe I do. It's kind of cold. This is a little puppy corgi, by the way, too, two months old.

He's not sure whether to be afraid or play, but I think now he has decided this is my new playmate, I'm not afraid anymore. I'm just going after it.

WOLF: Hopefully the temperature is kind of cool, so...

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF: It gets a little bit too warm and...

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: I wish we could do a little time lapse here to see what happens when the corgi decides and discovers, oh, wait a minute, it's melting, it's no longer my slippery friend.

WOLF: Exactly. Beautiful in these stages, Alaskan Malamute, they'll just chomp the thing up, but furry different story.

WHITFIELD: Yes, 600,000 hits on YouTube.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: All right, Reynolds, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Have a great afternoon.

Also straight ahead, a final look at our top stories. But first, tomorrow, Dr. Sanjay Gupta has a new show on CNN. It's called "THE NEXT LIST," and on it, Dr. Gupta profiles exceptional individuals. This week, he talks to Christopher Brosious, a cab driver turned award-winning perfumer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER BROSIUS: I can remember a scent very, very accurately, which I'm told from even like really excellent researchers at the Monell Center in Philadelphia that people can't do this. I can't imagine how they can't. But I'm told they can't. I catalog smells in my head. I remember them. I can pull them and start arranging them in my head without even doing anything physically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. CNN Sunday, so watch "THE NEXT LIST" or set your DVR for 2:00 Eastern time.