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A Rape Victim's Story; Holiday Travel Begins; Man Fired for Refusing to Wear Sticker Saying "666"; Newt Gingrich Defends Path to Citizenship for Some Illegal Immigrants
Aired November 23, 2011 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And now this. Here we go, hour two. Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Many holiday travelers are impacted at this hour by severe weather. Also, police are investigating a student's sudden death. And just how financially sound are the big banks?
Time to pay "Reporter Roulette" here.
And since holiday travel is huge news today, we're going to begin with CNN's Ted Rowlands, who is riding an Amtrak train to Chicago -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we have been talking to people all morning long and afternoon long.
We started in Saint Louis at 4:30 this morning.
Melvin joined us a little later on in the trip.
You are taking the train to Chicago. Yes or no, you like the train?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ROWLANDS: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wonderful. It's convenient, you know. It's just convenient for me. My daughter is in Saint Louis. I'm in Chicago. It's a quick trip.
fowl And cheaper, too.
Betty Tarty (ph) takes the train. She is on her way to Virginia, eventually.
But, Betty, why do you like taking the train?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's a better ride. It's more economical. There's no sense in flying from Saint Louis, because the planes stops and I have change planes at Midway. So it's just more economical. I only pay $30 round-trip for my train ticket.
ROWLANDS: You're going to see your son for Thanksgiving?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Fairfax, Virginia. ROWLANDS: And you will be back for Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
ROWLANDS: And she's going to be taking the train again, Brooke.
Jenna has seen it all. She serves beer, liquor, and other things on here, Amtrak trains.
There should be a reality show and you should star in it, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, absolutely.
ROWLANDS: Absolutely.
We want to show you this, Brooke. This is a dome car. There is only one dome car in the whole Amtrak fleet. And we're lucky enough to be on it. We have to go around the stairs here and go up these stairs, but this is why it's call the dome car, because it's surrounded by windows. And you can see out and not only can you see the entire trip out through the windows, but you can also see the motorists that have made the decision to drive rather than take the train.
And, Robert, train better than driving for you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely better than driving. You sit back, look out the beautiful windows. Amtrak has great service, very relaxing. Don't have to deal with the traffic.
ROWLANDS: All right, there you have it, Brooke, a lot of people on the train across the country, throughout the country on this Thanksgiving Day weekend, busiest day of the year for Amtrak -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Ted Rowlands, thank you. Safe travels to you.
(WEATHER UPDATE)
BALDWIN: Next on "Reporter Roulette," we could soon find out how strong the big banks are. And watch out. Someone may be tracking your phone on Black Friday.
Alison Kosik live with those stories at the New York Stock Exchange.
Alison, first the banks, another stress test coming?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
There is another stress test coming. In fact, the list of big banks, they have until January to show that they can hold up under hypothetical scenarios, very stressful situations, like let's say a stock market crash or 13 percent unemployment or just another bad recession.
Now, these banks, they have to show that they have enough money to keep lending to those even if those events continue to play out. If this sounds familiar, it should, because this happened two years ago. Banks went through stress tests and then it only involved 19 banks. Now it involves 31 banks.
The test is a lot more stringent and bigger because there are new Wall Street regulations. It's you're just an effort to avoid repeating mistakes of the past when we saw liquidity issues really become a big problem during the great recession -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Alison, second question. A lot of people obviously shopping over the course of the next couple of days. But it sounds like someone will be watching. Who is that someone and then how are they watching us, based upon our cell phones?
KOSIK: Well, yes. You're talking about Big Brother, a Big Brother. The mall is going to be watching you, specifically two malls.
In Temecula, California, and Richmond, Virginia, those malls there in those cities will be tracking the movements of shoppers there from Black Friday until New Year's day. And here is how it will work. The technology will actually want to track your cell phone location. It's going to really want to kind of track how people move the mall and what stores they go through, if they go maybe from Nordstrom to Starbucks.
The idea is they have coffee after leaving after that store. Or how long do they linger in Victoria's Secret? Or what parts of them all do they not go to? What is unpopular?
The company that makes this tracking equipment says what this winds up doing is helping stores improve the shopping experience. Now, keep in mind no personal data will be collected. So let's say that they would know that Alison is buying a dress. It would sort of be this anonymous data. But if you're still worried about it, you have an option to opt out by turning your phone off when you walk into the store -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: And this is all based upon a cell signal in these two malls?
KOSIK: Exactly. That's exactly right. They will track your movements and know just how you like to shop, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Wow.
KOSIK: What you like to buy.
BALDWIN: OK, Alison Kosik, thank you so much...
KOSIK: Yes.
BALDWIN: ... in New York.
(CROSSTALK)
KOSIK: Creepy.
BALDWIN: Next on "Reporter Roulette," CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen with the new details today on the death of Arkansas player Garrett Uekman.
What do you know today?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Uekman died on Sunday, and the coroner says that he died of an enlarged heart and a disease called cardiomyopathy, which is a disease of the heart muscle that runs in families.
Some people will feel signs of this disease. They left-wing feel light-headed or a pounding heart, but a lot of people won't. There are not any symptoms. And apparently that was the case here. His -- the university says they weren't told of any heart problems.
Apparently, there were no signs at all. And I want to add one more thing, because with young people, people often think of drugs. And so I want to say that they did toxicology and they were negative. So, apparently, drugs were not involved.
BALDWIN: OK. So I'm hearing you say it's genetic, but how often does this happen in young people?
COHEN: One study says that about 50 to 100 young athletes die of sudden death every year, not necessarily cardiomyopathy, but of sudden death every year, so middle schoolers, high schoolers, college students. So it's not a tiny number. Obviously, it's unusual, but it's not a teeny-tiny number.
BALDWIN: Is there anything -- parents watching, is there anything that an empowered parent can do to make sure that this doesn't happen to their child?
COHEN: You know what? There really is. If your child is an athlete, make sure that they have a proper physical. And when I say proper, I mean the kind of physical that a student athlete is supposed to get.
And the American Heart Association says that they just did a -- there was just a study done. Only 6 percent of student athletes get the proper physical.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Are kids not required to get these anymore?
COHEN: Well, they are required to get physicals, but they're not required to get any specific type.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: The doctor is not necessarily required to do anything in particular.
So you want to go to CNN.com/empoweredpatient. And we have a link to the 12 things that a doctor ought to be doing in a student athlete physical, because, again, this is unusual. I don't want to scare people. This is very unusual. But when it does happen, it can happen without warning and obviously it's devastating. BALDWIN: Knowledge is power, CNN.com/empoweredpatient.
Elizabeth Cohen, thanks.
COHEN: Thanks.
BALDWIN: And that's your "Reporter Roulette" here for today.
Still ahead, a sitting governor is calling off all executions in his state. We're going to tell you why.
Also, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot, I will never, ever, ever put that number on my body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: A worker says he was fired because he refused to wear a sticker. Why? Because he says that sticker shows the mark of the devil. We're on the case.
Plus:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think somebody's up here going to be president. And I think that -- and, hopefully, it's going to be me, but one of us is going to be.
It's important for us to unify the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, there asking Newt Gingrich tough questions post-debate last night, including who he thinks will be the last Republican standing. But will a comment about immigration hurt Newt Gingrich at the polls?
And speaking of politics, I'm sure it will come up perhaps at your turkey dinner tomorrow. Well, we have a little advice for you. Find out how you can be smarter than everyone in the room or how to completely change the subject. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
Now this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GULNAZ, RAPE VICTIM (through translator): A lot of people told me that, after your daughter is born, give it to someone else. But my aunt told me to keep her as proof of my innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: A young woman is thrown in jail after a relative rapes her. She even gives birth to the attacker's child. We first told about this outrageous story of injustice 24 hours ago, and now something's changed. We're getting so many tweets about this.
Nick Paton Walsh is standing by. He told the story. We have got the update with him, new developments today. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Boy, did we ever get reaction to our reporting out of Afghanistan, our story about the woman who was sitting in prison for adultery because she was raped, reaction from you and, every bit as important, reaction from the authorities in Afghanistan.
Nick Paton Walsh, he told the story. He is standing by live to give us the update today.
But, first, let's go back and listen to his reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gulnaz remembers clearly the smell of her rapist's clothes.
GULNAZ, RAPE VICTIM (through translator): He had filthy clothes on, as he does metal and construction work. When my mother went out, he came into my house, and he closed the doors and windows. I started screaming, but he shut me up by putting his hand on my mouth.
WALSH: Her rapist was the husband of her cousin, but in Afghanistan's draconian society, this 19-year-old was also blamed. Her rape, sex with a married man, was seen as adultery by the courts, and she was sentenced to 12 years in jail.
To her, there's only one way out, a dreadful choice.
GULNAZ (through translator): I was asked if I wanted to start a new life by getting released, by marrying this man. My answer was that one man dishonored me, and I want to stay with that man.
WALSH: Inside the prison walls, she agreed to be interviewed with her face hidden. Here, she can't escape her attacker. Her daughter is the child of the rape.
GULNAZ (through translator): My daughter is a little innocent child. Who knew I would have a child in this way? A lot of people told me that, after your daughter is born, give it to someone else. But my aunt told me to keep her as proof of my innocence.
WALSH (on camera): In Afghanistan, a rape victim's ordeal often simply begins with the physical attack. Then there's isolation from society, in Gulnaz's case, the possibility she may have to marry her attacker, and then the risk she could be killed because of the shame of her ordeal.
(voice-over): We spoke to her convicted rapist in jail who didn't want to be shown on camera and denied raping her. She would Gulnaz would definitely be killed on release, but by her own family out of shame.
(on camera): Because of how Afghan injustice has treated Gulnaz, she's taken the extraordinary step of speaking out about her attack. But even that has brought her problems.
(voice-over): She spoke openly, her face uncovered, in a documentary about women's rights paid for by the European Union. But the E.U. blocked its release, saying it would endanger her. Yet, the documentary makers say the E.U. blocked it also because they don't want to make the Afghan justice system look bad.
The E.U. ambassador said it was his call.
VYGAUDAS USACKAS, EUROPEAN UNION AMBASSADOR TO AFGHANISTAN: What I'm concerned about the situation with the woman, about the security and well-being. That's of paramount importance. That's a key criteria according to which I, as a representative of the European Union, will judge.
WALSH: But now rape victim Gulnaz has been judged an adulterer, her only possible escape, marriage to her rapist, something she says she will accept, so her child can continue to have a mother.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Nick Paton Walsh standing by for us now live in Kabul, where Afghan authorities have now reduced the rape victim's sentence.
So, Nick, she's still in prison for this, but how much shorter is her sentence?
WALSH: Well, she now has a sentence of three years, and about a year left to serve on that.
What is remarkable, though, about this, it gives you an insight into the thinking of prosecutors and judges in this country. They have looked at the case again and decided actually she needs to stay in jail a bit longer, their reasoning being, we heard from prosecutors today, that they believe she didn't report the crime against her fast enough.
That is absolutely quite remarkable, to be honest. They also say in the same breath that she wasn't raped, she's guilty of adultery, suggesting that the sex was consensual. Of course, Gulnaz completely denies.
But you have got a situation here where, on one hand, they are saying that the crime is not necessarily as serious requiring the 12 years sentence originally handed to her, but she also stay in jail because she didn't really report it quickly enough, so a confusing situation here indeed, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Didn't report it quick enough.
What -- what happens to her now? What happens to her child? And then, will she even be safe when she's released?
WALSH: The hope is that eventually somebody may intervene. And she has repealed directly to Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
There is a suggestion from prosecutors that she may be pardoned by the president in the future, but tonight her and her child remain in jail. The U.S. State Department has issued a statement in which, oddly, they don't actually call for her release. They just express their heartfelt condolences to Gulnaz and her daughter and say no woman should have to face a choice like that or be in that situation, so a very strange situation here.
And I think really it's about pressure upon the presidential palace here to see the president actually intervene and call for her release, then after that, of course, sanctuary or some kind of asylum to ensure her safety -- Brooke.
BLITZER: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you for sharing the story with us of Kabul. Nick, thank you.
Back here at home, breaking today: new arrest in the hunt for suspects who terrorized that Amish town by cutting bears and hair. Find out how cleansing the devil played a role.
Plus, in just a couple of years, NASA expected to have a telescope so powerful, it will provide a never-before-seen look at our universe. But there was some problems with it, oh, and also a mighty heavy price tag.
John Zarrella standing by live, he's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Speaking of space, NASA plans to put a new space telescope in orbit in 2018. And it is so powerful, experts say it will make the Hubble look like something of a backyard astronomer.
But anything this good obviously comes with a pretty -- pretty big price tag, as John Zarrella quickly found out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): This is the future, outside the Maryland Science Center. It's a full-scale model of NASA's James Webb space telescope. Scientists believe the real thing will redefine our understanding of our place in the university. It will be so unique, it can look further back in time than the Hubble telescope, almost to the dawn of creation.
JOHN MATHER, SENIOR PROJECT SCIENTIST: The changed Webb telescope is to help us find our entire history, from the first things after the Big Bang to how the first galaxies are born.
ZARRELLA: And astronomers say, if they look in just the right place and get just a bit lucky --
ADAM RIESS, ASTROPHYSICIST: This may give us our first clues about the existence of life in another solar system.
MATHER: If we could see a planet like earth with an ocean, I think that'd be really cool.
ZARRELLA: Webb will orbit about one million miles from earth. It's instruments are designed to image primarily in the infrared range, light we can't see. Webb's capabilities will allow it to literally look where Hubble could not, into gas and dust clouds, at the birth of the first stars and planets. Sounds incredible, right? Webb might get us another step closer to solving the puzzle, are we alone?
RIESS: I don't even know how you would put a price on being able to answer questions like, how old is the universe? How did this all start? Where's it going? What is it made of? Are there other people out there like us? These questions are just so intrinsic.
ZARRELLA: But there is a price tag. When Webb is finally launched in 2018, it will be years behind schedule and cost about $8.8 billion, $6.5 billion more than the original estimate.
At one point, Congress came close to killing it. So, what happened? How did it end up astronomy at an astronomical cost?
RICK HOWARD, WEBB PROGRAM DIRECTOR: When you're doing inventions and things for the first time, you don't know exactly what you're going to run into. And we found several things that we had to work around.
ZARRELLA: And it better work from a get-go. When Hubble ran into problems, space shuttle astronauts came to the rescue, but Hubble was only 300 miles up. At one million miles away, even if the shuttle was still flying, it couldn't get there to fix Webb.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: John Zarrella live for me at Kennedy Space Center. So you're saying this will redefine our place in the universe? That's quite a goal, John Zarrella. With so many issues with the telescope, why didn't NASA abandon it?
ZARRELLA: A couple of reasons, Brooke. One is that the science community was outraged at the notion that it would set astronomy back 25 years. The second reason was they had already poured so much money into it, they looked at options like, well, what if we start over and try to do something different, and they decided it would be less expensive to continue on, fix the problems that they had with Webb and go ahead and launch this one. So those are the two predominant ones.
Brooke, can you imagine that chief scientists we interviewed said, hey, if we saw a planet that had an ocean on it, that would be pretty cool. You think? BALDWIN: I think so.
ZARRELLA: So matter of fact. Yes.
BALDWIN: Amazing, amazing, $8.8 billion. John Zarrella, thank you, sir. Good to see you.
Also, at this time tomorrow those of you will be with family and friends perhaps talking politics. We have a little bit of advice that will make you the most knowledgeable person around your dinner table, and somehow Justin Bieber plays a part in this. That's ahead.
Plus, here's one that you haven't heard before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY HYATT, FIRED FOR REFUSING TO WEAR "666": It's not just a sticker, OK -- 666 is the mark of the beast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: This guy says he was fired for refusing to wear a sticker at work. Wait until you hear why the company number wanted him to wear it and whether he actually has a case. Mark Eiglarsh is standing by with more on that. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Seven Amish men have now been arrested in the case in that bizarre beard cutting case in Ohio. And federal agents are calling it a hate crime now. Among the seven arrested, Samuel Mullet Sr. He's the clan leader. An affidavit says Mullet forced members of him Amish sect to sleep in chicken coops and took some of the clans married women into his home so he could quote-unquote, "cleanse them of the devil" with sexual acts.
Many companies take special pride in their safety records. Some like workers to wear tags each and every day trumpeting the number of accident-free days. But when one Georgia company's safety record hit the number 666 days without an accident, one worker said no to wearing a badge with that number. And for his conviction Billy Hyatt lost his job. That was last year. He's been out of work ever since. Now Hyatt has filed a federal lawsuit over his firing. Tom Jones of our affiliate WSB in Atlanta has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HYATT: I cannot -- I will never, ever, ever put that number on my body.
TOM JONES, REPORTER, WSB: Billy Hyatt is a staunch believe in the Bible, including what "Revelation" 13 and 14 says about the number 666.
HYATT: The people that accept in the mark, they are going to burn in hell. JONES: His faith is so strong he refused to wear the number 666 while working at the company that is now Berry Plastics Corporation.
HYATT: There's no way that I'm going to put that number on my body.
JONES: That decision led to his firing. Hyatt has filed a lawsuit alleging his termination violated his religious rights. He says Berry employees must wear stickers with the number of days that the company has gone without an accident.
HYATT: I asked for a day off.
JONES: When the number approached 666, Hyatt said he asked not to be forced to wear the sticker. He says he was suspended and then fired when he refused to wear it. Hyatt said his boss told him it's just a sticker.
HYATT: Well, it's not just a sticker, OK -- 666 is the mark of the beast, OK?
JONES (on camera): I came here to get a comment about Hyatt's the claims and the lawsuit but no one answered the door. I did get an e- mail from the company saying it doesn't comment on pending litigation.
STEVE MIXON, HYATT'S ATTORNEY: All my client wanted was not to wear a sticker. This is not safety equipment or anything like that.
HYATT: One of these days, I know I'm going to lose my life for not wanting to accept the mark of the beast.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Let's bring informer criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Mark Eiglarsh. And Mark, let me just start by saying that CNN also reached out to Berry Plastics for comment. We got no response as well. So out of the gates here, does Billy Hyatt have a case?
MARK EIGLARSH, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think he does. I think this company showed, at a minimum, gross error in judgment. I think what he did was unlawful. Asking their employees to wear a sticker is within their right. They could do so. But when an employee like this gentleman refuses to wear it based on a bona fide religious belief, not a superstition, not just because he doesn't feel like it, but a bona fide religious belief, and then the burden is on the employer. They must create reasonable accommodations unless doing so would create an undue hardship for the company. What kind of undue hardship would result if they said, all right, pass on wearing the sticker today.
BALDWIN: We were talking about the story around the table at our morning meeting, and some of us are wondered is there more to the story than this? A lot of people say it's unreasonable that they would let him go, but might there be something else going on here that the company was looking at that final, I don't know, catalyst to let him go? EIGLARSH: Yes. I thought so, too. I said, there's got to be something more. I looked for every single article that I could find on this, and the facts didn't change. Listen, my position would be different if he said, look, because of my special religion, I want to wear only a leopard g-string to work. That's my religion, I want to wear that. That would be different. We're talking about a sticker here.
BALDWIN: OK. So why not just call in sick the day of the 666th accident-free day. He could have avoided a confrontation if he wanted to.
EIGLARSH: He tried. Apparently he did say he wanted to take off the day and they said, fine, you're suspended for three days. And then when he came back, they fired him clearly based on his religious belief. And I tell you this, they need to settle this lawsuit and to show that they are sincere, they need to offer more than $666.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Mark, thank you so much.
Coming up next, Gloria Borger had the backstage pass to last night's CNN debate. She got all the scoop on Newt Gingrich and the moment he broke away from the party line last night on the topic of illegal immigrants who are already here in the U.S. More with Gloria, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The Republican candidates for president at it all over again. This time it's over illegal immigration. Here's what a couple of them had to say last night at our CNN debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you come here recently and have no ties to this country, you ought to go home, period. If you have been here 25 years and you have three kids and two grandkids, you have been paying taxes and obeying the law, you belong to a local church, I don't think we're going to uproot you from your family or bring you forcefully and kick you out.
MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Amnesty is a magnet. When we have had programs in the past people that come here illegally are going to get to stay here legally for the rest of their life, that is going to only encourage more people to come here illegally.
MICHELE BACHMANN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to stay away from magnets, not offer more.
RICK PERRY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The real issue is securing that border. And this conversation is not ever going to end until we get the border secure.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Chief political analyst Gloria Borger, she was there last night in Washington. She's there live for us. Gloria, you grabbed very quickly post-debate candidate and former House speaker Newt Gingrich. At issue -- you asked him a bunch of different questions, but at issue you asked whether Gingrich supports amnesty for illegal immigrants. Let's play a little bit about that exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: One thing that came up at the end of the debate was a question about immigration. And you said that Americans want to be humane about immigration, that they essentially don't want to throw people out that have been in this country for a number of years.
GINGRICH: I always draw the distinction. There are lots of people who will go home. There are millions who will go home. They have no ties here, they have no roots. But there are also millions who are going to end up staying. And I can't imagine any serious person who walks down the street, sees somebody they've known for 20 years and say, you're leaving your family, you're leaving your church, you're leaving the community that you've been in for 20, 25 years and we're kicking you out forcibly.
BORGER: Let me tell you what Michele Bachmann's campaign put out immediately which says that Newt Gingrich is opening the door to amnesty. What would your response to that be?
GINGRICH: That is just totally inaccurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Is he, Gloria Borger? Is he opening the doors to the idea of amnesty?
BORGER: He's opening the doors to the idea of people who came here illegally some time ago, remaining here who have set down their roots and pay their tacks. It took about a nanosecond, as you saw, for Michele Bachmann to pounce on it. Also today Mitt Romney continuing in his effort to get to the right of Newt Gingrich pouncing on it.
And this issue of immigration, really, I think is the quicksand for the Republican Party. Everybody who steps on the immigration debate seems to think at one time or another. You look back to John McCain who wanted to find a path to citizenship. He had to renounce his own bill when he was running for the presidency. Governor Perry has had this problem when he had to defend in-state tuition for the children of the illegal immigrants.
And so, you know, this is an issue that Republican parties had a hard time getting its arms around. And, by the way, as a result, they are losing a large constituency out there, which would be Hispanic voters.
BALDWIN: Also, though, you mentioned Rick Perry, we saw what happened with his poll numbers. I'm curious, looking ahead, how you may think this will affect Newt Gingrich's poll numbers and also how it's affecting playing with the conservative base.
BORGER: Well, I think it's earlier to tell, but it's not going to help Newt Gingrich with conservatives in a state like Iowa who go to the Iowa caucuses. Immediately after Governor Perry talked about that state tuition issue, his numbers started to decrease because he was too liberal for the Republican Party on that issue. Newt Gingrich could suffer in the same way, although, as he points out to me and others, he's been saying this for quite some time. I think we never really paid that much attention to it, Brooke, honestly, because he wasn't in the top tier. Now he's in the top tier.
BALDWIN: Now that's changed.
BORGER: Right. That has changed and Romney and Bachmann are both going after him on it.
BALDWIN: Also, let's remind everyone, Iowa, less than six week as way. Gloria Borger, great job.
BORGER: Thanks.
BALDWIN: Thank you, good to see you.
And speaking of the debate, how about this moment? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They can come up with an approach. I'm sorry, Blitz. I meant blitz, OK.
(LAUGHTER)
Since we're on a blitz debate -- I apologize, Wolf.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: OK, coming up next, we're going to talk to the man himself who is Wolf Blitzer. Also, this moment -- take a look at this, dramatic moments after this helicopter crashed with this wire. Wait until you hear what happened to the pilot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: A helicopter crashes, the whole thing is caught on camera. Take a look for yourself. Unbelievable -- this helicopter in what appears to be clipping this wire. The pilot is helping install a Christmas tree in Auckland, New Zealand. As you saw the chopper totally ripped apart, the rotor, tail snapping off. Amazingly no one was hurt, and the pilot walked away, walked away after that happened.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" mere minutes away. Wolf "Blitz" Blitzer, a lot of post-debate analysis on your show today. First, if people weren't watching for that split second when Herman Cain dubbed you "The Blitz." let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CAIN: No, Blitz, that's oversimplifying it. I happen to believe, that if you allow our intelligence agencies to do their job, they can come up with an approach -- I'm sorry, Blitz, I meant Wolf, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
CAIN: Blitz, Wolf -- since we on a blitz debate, I apologize, Wolf.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And, then you continued to say, it's OK, Cain, right?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": He's a very nice man and we had a nice conversation after the debate. Look, how many times have you or I screwed up on television calling someone x or y. It happens all of the time. I've been called a lot worse.
BALDWIN: We were talking at commercial break, my producer Eric and I, and we were kind of wondering, in the commercial breaks of the debate, what do the candidates do. What do we not see?
BLITZER: Some of them leave the stage, I assume they get powder, makeup, whatever. They have two-and-a-half, three minutes. They can get a cold drink, talk or something. Who knows what they do? Some of them stay on the stage and I walk around and talk to them. Everybody does something else. Fortunately, by the time we come back from the commercial break, they're there at their podiums, ready to go.
BALDWIN: Excellent job once again as moderator. What do you have coming up on your show?
BLITZER: You know what is coming up Sunday night?
BALDWIN: Soul Train.
BLITZER: We'll see you there, because you were in the audience.
BALDWIN: I was sitting right next to you.
BLITZER: We'll watch that Sunday night. But we'll watch "THE SITUATION ROOM" in a few minutes. We have two hours of excellent broadcast, including in the 5:00 p.m. hour, a complete wrap of all of the highlights of the debate. But we have great analysis, Gloria Borger, Ron Brownstein. We'll go in depth on the debate last night and see where we go from here. It was a serious debate. I was happy that CNN let me moderate.
BALDWIN: Of course, you are the best. Wolf Blitzer, thank you, and we'll see you this weekend on the Soul Train Awards as well.
Coming up here, what to say or avoid during those awkward dinner table conversations with the extended family come tomorrow. We'll put the whole leave politics off the dinner table thing to rest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: Are your pie crusts ready? How about the bred for the stuffing? Sweet potato casserole? Have enough plates, seats for everyone? Don't forget the antacids, because you know when the family gets together, indigestion can be a by-product, especially when the discussion turns political. So I asked my buddy Lisa Desjardins at CNN Radio, should we even be bringing politics up at the dinner table? Here she is.
LISA DESJARDINS, CNN RADIO: Brooke, it turns out you should. But that old rule of keep politics and religion away from the dinner table, it's not true anymore. And I got this from perhaps the expert, Anna Post. She's the great, great granddaughter of Emily Post, so who else will call this kind of thing? She said now what you want is a good dinner conversation, and politics is such a part of modern life right now that it is justifiable to bring to the dinner table. It could add to the conversation.
I mentioned the exception, Brooke, and that exception is, if you know that the divide in your family is so tough over politics that nothing can happen but, say, a nuclear meltdown if the topic comes up, in that case, you probably do want to avoid it. For most everybody else, bring it up.
BALDWIN: OK, so what if you have a bit of a divide. How do you discuss your controversial -- your partisan issue, without causing the meltdown before the hot pumpkin pie is served.
DESJARDINS: Yes. There's a couple ways to do it. One is try to bring up something you think everybody will be interested in. We've actually listed a couple of topics, give you three that makes you seem smarter and might help the dinner table. One if you want to get political here, talk about the primaries. Why is it that New Hampshire and Iowa always gets to go first. Maybe ask folks if the state you're in, if we should have national primaries. It's kind of a serious topic. And graduate it to something more historic if you want to seem so scholarly, Brooke, when sitting down.
BALDWIN: Yes.
DESJARDINS: A lost people talking about President Obama. If you don't want to get caught up in the Obama good or bad situation, try to divert it into -- think about if he does lose. If he does, he's still a young man, only 50. Could you run again after taking four years off? Here's the name you would bring up -- Grover Cleveland, the only president who has done that.
Last thing, this is the least of all, probably the best to bring up. Mitt Romney, you were the only ones at your dinner table to say, that is actually his real name, Mitt, his middle name. He is named after an uncle. You can just bring that up. It makes it kind of easy. Your producer, Angie, I love her idea. If all else fails, just completely divert and bring up Justin Bieber's paternity problem and those issues.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Problem solved, talk about the Bieb. Those are the go-to to topics to fill the awkward silences, right?
DESJARDINS: That's right. That's my plan. Politics is huge from my family. I'm the only one that doesn't have a firm political opinion. I always -- maybe do you this too. I bring up some kind of fact or interesting question because I'm not really on one side or the other. I think the key here is to try and bring up something that you think will had the conversation that you will learn from or other people learn from. Again if you're in that family where someone picks up a pile of food and throw it next time Newt Gingrich comes up, try and divert.
BALDWIN: I'm always the question asker, not the answerer for a reason.
Lisa, thank you very much. If you want to listen to Lisa's weekly podcast called "American Sauce" you can download it for free from iTunes or any phone. Lisa, thank you.
DESJARDINS: Happy Thanksgiving.
BALDWIN: Hopefully no one throws around their apple pie over talks of politics.
But meantime I want to remind you the markets are closed tomorrow, so let's get a quick peak as we are 30 seconds away from the closing bell. The Dow quite down today, 229 points in the red, Dow 11,264 here on this Wednesday before Thanksgiving. We hope you join us of course tomorrow. I'll be here at work. Hopefully you're home nice and safe with your family on Thanksgiving.
In the meantime, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for watching. Wolf Blitzer starts right now.
