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Coach's Wife: "I Know Everything"; Fallout from Pakistan Incident; Gingrich on a Roll; Philly Police to Move in on Occupy Protesters; Trouble for Airports, Roadways; Black Friday Numbers Are In; Dr. Conrad Murray to be Sentenced Tuesday; Secret Phone Conservation Surfaces in Bernie Fine Child Sexual Assault Case; Payroll Tax Cut Extension is Next Congressional Debate; Finding Cyber Monday Deals Online
Aired November 27, 2011 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ted Rowlands, in tonight for Don Lemon.
Major development the case against Bernie Fine, the Syracuse associate head basketball coach accused of sexually abusing two former ball boys. Reports today of a third accuser coming forward.
But perhaps most shockingly, ESPN has released a secretly-recorded conversation in 2002 between Fine's wife Laurie Fine and one of the coach's accusers, Bobby Davis. On it, potentially damning evidence that suggests Fine's wife not only knew about the abuse but allowed it to go on.
We want to play some of that audio for you now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LAURIE FINE: I know everything that went on, you know, I know everything that went on with him. Bernie has issues, maybe that he's not aware of, but he has issues. And you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted.
BOBBY DAVIS: Yes.
FINE: Bernie is also in denial. I think that he did the things he did, but he's somehow through his own mental telepathy has erased them out of his mind.
You know what? Go to a place where there's gay boys, find yourself a gay boy. You know, get your rocks off, have it be over with.
DAVIS: Yes, but --
FINE: You know, he needs a that male companionship that I can't give him, nor is he interested in me, and vice versa.
Because I care about you, and I don't want to see you being treated that way --
DAVIS: Yes. FINE: -- and, it's hard for, if it was another girl like I told you, it would be easy for me to step in because you know what you're up against, you're -- you're when it's someone, it's another guy, you can't compete with that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Bobby Davis and his step brother Mike Lang say Fine molested them back when they were ball boys. Davis also claimed Laurie Fine had a sexual relationship with him when he was 18.
Today, affiliate WCSH spoke to a third accuser coming forward against Fine, 23-year-old Zach Tomaselli. He says Fine molested him in a Pittsburgh hotel room when he was 13, the night before a Syracuse game against Pitt. Tomaselli described the alleged abuse in detail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZACH TOMASELLI, ACCUSES FINE OF SEX ABUSE: I was in the hotel room. And he was, he would put his hand down my shorts whenever I was sitting there watching TV and he would basically fondle me four to maybe even five times, and it would go in spurts between 10 and 15 minutes and it would stop for a couple of hours and then he would start that all over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Now, Tomaselli has his own problems. He is facing charges for allegedly assaulting a 14-year-old boy in Maine in 2009 and 2010. Tomaselli's own father calls him a liar and denies ever meeting Fine or letting his son take a trip with the coach.
When asked for a statement, Fine's attorney released this saying, quote, "Mr. Fine will not comment on newspaper stories beyond his initial statement. Any comment from him would only invite and perpetuate ancient and suspect claims. Mr. Fine remains hopeful of a credible and expeditious review of the relevant issues by law enforcement authorities."
The allegations first surfaced a couple of weeks ago. But today's disturbing revelations put those accusations in a whole new light.
CNN's Susan Candiotti just spoke with the father of Zach Tomaselli about his son's allegations.
Susan, what can you tell us?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ted, you eluded to a bit of that. I just got off the phone with him a little while ago and he absolutely denies the allegations that his son is making against Bernie Fine.
Mr. Tomaselli tells me that he and his son have never been to any games in Pittsburgh, that his son has never met Bernie Fine. That he never went to autographed sessions with him nor after parties as his son alleges. And he said -- he described his son as an angry, bitter person, and he believes that he's coming forward at this time because: A, he said he's an avid sports fan and watches ESPN all the time, and he believes his son, because he is in trouble himself with the law is trying to diffuse that in some way by coming forward.
On the other hand, he also tells us -- Mr. Tomaselli tells us that his son made similar allegations against him very recently and he said that he was investigated by the New York state police, allegations that involved the authorities interviewing his children about whether they had been accused sexually by Mr. Tomaselli. And he said that the police had cleared him of any allegations like this.
He said he's not been contacted by the police that are investigating the Bernie Fine case, but if they contact him, that he would be willing to speak with him. And finally, Ted, he said he still loves his son and hopes that he gets some help.
ROWLANDS: OK. Obviously, some issues with that. What's been the reaction from the rest of the Syracuse community following these allegations and specifically that audiotape from ESPN that was released yesterday?
CANDIOTTI: Well, we have been working all day to try to get some reaction to that by investigating agencies that are working on this, including the U.S. Attorney's Office would only confirm that they did conduct a search warrant -- as we all know, the search of Bernie Fine's home near Syracuse and that they are involving the Secret Service in this investigation because of their expertise in looking in to electronic transactions. That wouldn't be uncommon for the Secret Service to be involved in this kind of an investigation.
It also -- they also -- we contacted the district attorney's office, the local D.A. But we haven't been able to reach them, nor the Syracuse police department to get them to weigh in on this new information that we have been getting.
ROWLANDS: All right. Susan Candiotti live for us in New York.
Coming up, you'll see that ESPN report in its entirety. You'll hear the conversation that Bobby Fine, one of Fine's -- Bobby Davis, one of Fine's accusers, says he secretly made over the phone call with his Fine's wife Laurie. You'll hear her in her own words saying that she knew everything. You'll also hear from the ESPN reporter who broke the story open.
And "Sports Illustrated" investigative reporter Jon Wertheim joins us to talk about the investigation and whether ESPN should have done something with this audio recording before. That is all coming up in our 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour.
Well, NATO secretary general says a deadly attack on Pakistan troops was a tragic unintended accident. But those words have done little to calm the anger in Pakistan. More protesters were seen across the country today.
Meantime, mourning has begun for the victims of Saturday's attack. Twenty-four Pakistani troops were killed.
Pakistani's army chief visited wounded soldiers and the country's foreign minister branded the attack, quote, "totally unacceptable."
As CNN's Reza Sayah explains, it's another set back for the U.S. relationship with a vital ally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pakistani government officials continue to condemn the attack, but they are going beyond rhetoric, taking some concrete measures. They have continued to shut down that two NATO supply routes that go from Pakistan into to Afghanistan. They've also asked U.S. personnel to vacate an air base in southwestern Pakistan that at one point was a launching pad for those controversial U.S.-drone strikes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: A developing story.
NATO and the U.S. have yet to offer a full apology to Pakistan. There are reports suggesting the NATO force may have come under fire during their mission.
Afghanistan's president is laying out a new timetable for NATO to hand over more security responsibilities to Afghan forces. A plan would place roughly half of the population under their control. It is faster than anticipated and some say riskier. Many of the areas are considered relatively safe but others more dangerous. The bulk of the coalition troops are expected to be gone by 2014.
We are watching a developing story in Philadelphia. Occupy protesters marching through the streets and police surrounding them. And that is a live picture of what is going on in Philadelphia. We are watching that for you.
And home at last, Americans arrested in Egypt for taking part in violence in the streets this week are back on U.S. soil and talking about what happened.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: We are following some breaking news in Philadelphia where police are preparing to move in on Occupy protesters who are under an order to clear their tents out of a city plaza by tonight.
Take a look at live pictures there of what is a tense situation. But we haven't had any reports of any violence. Police have apparently gone in and asked these people to leave.
Mayor Michael Nutter gave these demonstrators 48 hours' notice on Friday that they would have to vacate the premises. Of course, we have seen this play out in city after city across the country. It's Philadelphia's turn this evening.
Apparently, there is a construction plan for the plaza where the Occupy protesters have been taking up shelter and pitching their tents for weeks now. There's a $50 million construction project that's about to begin on the plaza. The mayor used it as an excuse, if you will, to push them out.
There's been a lot of back and forth in the city of Philadelphia. There was an uprising within the protests, not from police clashing with protesters but a group that thinks the police have been too lenient they came down apparently into the square. There was some pushing and shoving but no serious incidents took place then.
And at this point, there has been nothing serious reported to us from the ground from our affiliates. But as you can see, live pictures there -- there is a situation happening at this hour in Philadelphia. And we will, of course, watch it.
Three American college students are back in the U.S. after a harrowing experience in Egypt. Derrik Sweeney, Gregory Porter and Luke Gates arrived home last night after being released from custody. The three were arrested during recent violent protests in Cairo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
LUKE GATES, AMERICAN STUDENT ARRESTED IN EGYPT: It's really nice. It's really nice. It's really good feeling. I'm glad to be with my family. I want to go home and have Thanksgiving.
GREGORY PORTER, AMERICAN STUDENT ARRESTED IN EGYPT: I'm so thankful to be back and love to be in Philadelphia right now.
DERRIK SWEENEY, AMERICAN STUDENT ARRESTED IN EGYPT: There is a lot of -- there's a lot of fervor for the revolution out there and for change. I learned it's probably better to watch from TV.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
ROWLANDS: The three were accused of tossing fire bombs at security forces but an Egyptian court ordered them free.
Egypt is facing the biggest test of its commitment to democracy. Voters choose a parliament on Monday and it's expected to be the most open election in decades in Egypt. It will also be the first since President Hosni Mubarak resigned.
The military insists the elections will go forward despite protests in Tahrir Square. Demonstrators want the army to give up power, but officers say they won't be pressured in to stepping aside.
Syria faces new pressure to end the crackdown on protesters. This time from allies in the Arab League who agreed to impose sanctions on Syria.
New video on YouTube today showed enthusiastic demonstrations by Syrians who support the league's actions. The sanctions will freeze assets belonging to the government and Syrian officials. It also cuts off relations with Syrian's central bank. Travel restrictions will be enforced. The Arab League will meet next Saturday to decide how to impose these sanctions. It's unclear how effective they'll be since two of Syria's biggest trading partners, Iraq and Lebanon, abstained from voting.
The GOP candidate for president who's been climbing in the polls gets another big boost -- a potentially huge endorsement in a key early primary state. We are talking about it in two minutes.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: Well, a few weeks ago, Newt Gingrich was almost invisible as a presidential candidate. Suddenly, he's leading the pack of Republican hopefuls, and he just got a huge assist in Mitt Romney's own backyard.
Just weeks before the New Hampshire primary, a coveted endorsement from "The New Hampshire Union Leader." In its endorsement, publisher Joe McQuaid said "Republican voters too often make the mistake of preferring an unattainable ideal to the best candidate who's actually running. In this incredibly important election, that candidate is Newt Gingrich. He has the experience, the leadership qualities and the vision to lead this country in these trying times."
The good vibes don't stop there for Gingrich. He is even getting high marks from his former political adversary, Bill Clinton. Clinton says Gingrich's thoughtful solutions to national problems such as immigration should appeal to both independents as well conservatives.
Gingrich's sudden rise is a good place to start off, with Republican analyst Lenny McAllister and CNN.com contributor L.Z. Granderson.
Lenny, we talked about this in Chicago last week. Can Gingrich hold this lead? And what possibly is going to derail him? What does he have to watch out for?
LENNY MCALLISTER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, he can hold this lead. What he has to watch for is overreach -- this is something that other candidates have done. They have had the lead and then they've overreached too fast, too soon and they find themselves sliding down.
What Newt has to do is make sure he solidifies this lead, make sure he wins Iowa. The advantage he has over the other previous front runners is the fact that Iowa is right around the corner from him. He should have enough time to solidify this lead, do well in Iowa, probably win and then move in to New Hampshire where he is chipping away at Romney's big lead that he's had for months now. If he can do that and win South Carolina, he's going to have enough momentum to run the distance and get the nomination next summer.
ROWLANDS: L.Z., you recently wrote a column saying, is Gingrich too mean? What do you think now? Can he win? L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN.COM CONTRIBUTOR: No. You know, it's really funny to listen to Lenny to talk about the reasons why the other candidates have slipped back. The reason why they have fallen back in the polls is because they don't -- the American people haven't found out who they are and once we learned about them, we realize we don't really like them after all. I mean, we were excited about Bachmann until we found out she doesn't know what she was talking about.
ROWLANDS: Well, don't we know Gingrich?
GRANDERSON: Well, we do Gingrich, but we don't Gingrich, right? Because we are kind of hoping that he is a new person and I'll give him credit. He's always been a thoughtful politician. He's always been a very thoughtful person.
The reason I wrote the column is because the thoughtfulness ends in academia area. It ends in policy. He's unable to touch the human heart. It seems he always gets in the way of himself.
And so, the reason why I don't believe he's going to get the nomination is because, ultimately, he's going to derail himself. He can't run from who he is and who he is doesn't seem to be a genuinely nice person.
ROWLANDS: Let's switch gears here, former frontrunner, the non- Romney, a few weeks ago, was Herman Cain. Listen as he explains his recent drop in the polls on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning with Candy Crowley. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDY CROWLEY, HOST, CNN'S "STATE OF THE UNION": What do you think has gone wrong in the past month or so?
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, obviously, false accusations and confusion about some of my positions has contributed to it. And, you know, that was to be expected. In terms of the campaign itself, nothing has gone wrong in terms of our strategy of spending time in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, and Florida. So, in terms of the mechanics of the campaign, nothing has gone wrong. But as you know, Candy, some people are heavily influenced by perception more than so than reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: All right. Lenny, Herman Cain -- he is down in the polls but he's not out. He's still running third in most of the polling. Is he down and out? Is he -- or can he stop this and I guess the next polls will be very important, huh?
MCALLISTER: I think he's down and out. And part of the reason why he is, is because one thing that American voters want from politicians that make mistakes is contrition. He's never quite come across as contrite when he has misspoken on the issues or with the sexual allegation. It was very -- there was a lot vitriol in some regards coming out as far as pushing off these allegations. And American voters don't like that.
The same thing they are saying about Newt Gingrich now. I think Gingrich, if you look at it, he's already said, look, some of my mistakes will be between me and God, and I hope God can forgive me as well as the American people. American voters want to see more of that type of demeanor from their politicians than what they are getting with Cain. And as long as Cain is still keeps pointing the finger at other people, it's going to be a problem, just as it's been a problem for President Obama moving with the polls because he's blamed the Republicans too often first, looking at some of his own internal policies.
ROWLANDS: L.Z., who do you think Obama would like to meet in the general election, Romney or one of the non-Romneys?
GRANDERSON: I really think he would rather meet one of the non- Romneys with the exception of Jon Huntsman. I have been talking to him since he made his candidacy known because I think he -- on his resume, if you just took the name away, you just look the man's resume, that's something the president should be fearful of.
The same thing with Romney. Both men, you know, happen to be Mormons and I believe that is also the reason why they can't seem to get over the hump.
But I think Clinton --
MCALLISTER: Not sure.
GRANDERSON: -- Clinton is actually playing -- what are you talking about as not sure? I think Clinton is actually playing with the voters --
MCALLISTER: Mormonism is not the issue this year.
GRANDERSON: -- by suggesting that Gingrich is a great thing.
Who said it's not an issue this year? We had an evangelical pastor who introduced Rick Perry, flatly said Mormonism is an issue this year.
(CROSSTALK)
MCALLISTER: And Perry is in the fourth place right. So, it obviously doesn't hold that much weight.
GRANDERSON: Dude, you know what? I used to run --
(CROSSTALK)
GRANDERSON: He might be in fourth play right now but that's only because of his performances in the debates, not because of anything --
MCALLISTER: He's going to stay there, L.Z. The bottom line is people need jobs.
GRANDERSON: Yes, he will, because he's not a good politician.
MCALLISTER: They will get to the social issues once they get the jobs.
GRANDERSON: Yes.
MCALLISTER: And the bottom line is, Perry, he's been off message when it comes to job. Cain has been off-message with the 9-9-9, and 9-0-9.
Gingrich has been the best at these debates. And because he has been the best at these debates, despite his social flaws, despite his personal flaws, you see he is at the top of the polls now and I expect him to stay there.
ROWLANDS: All right. Going to get there leave there, guys.
Lenny and L.Z., thank you very much for another spirited discussion. We'll talk to you again likely next weekend.
GRANDERSON: Take care.
ROWLANDS: A CNN programming note: Newt Gingrich will join John King in Charleston, South Carolina, on Monday night. It is a one-on-one interview on "JOHN KING, USA" at 6:00 Eastern.
Next, we'll go live to the Occupy Philly protests as police surround protesters. We'll check in on the ground with the latest. We are following this the breaking story out of Philadelphia.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: We are following breaking news in Philadelphia where police are preparing to move in on Occupy protesters who are under an order to the clear their tents out of the city plaza tonight.
Oren Liebermann from our affiliate KYW joins us now live.
Oren, what's happening right now on the ground?
OREN LIEBERMANN, KYW REPORTER (via telephone): Ted, right now, there are about probably 200 Occupy Philly protesters right on the western side of city hall. I would say about 100 to 150 of those are sitting down, locked arms waiting for police to act, whatever that action may be. There are about 30 police officers and more civil affairs officers standing off to the side. But they haven't moved in yet. They've just been sitting there, waiting in case anything does happen. But so far, it's been very peaceful.
The eviction time was about 90 minutes ago. We'll see what happens here.
ROWLANDS: Are the tents still up?
LIEBERMANN: There are quite a number of tents. It is difficult to estimate how many. The count as of yesterday was 370 tents. It looks like half of them have been taken down. But again, that's a tough number to get a feel for. Some of the tents that are up may be empty. I've seen people in other tents but quite a number of the tents remain here with people inside of them planning on staying.
ROWLANDS: And what are the Occupy folks saying in terms of their strategy? Are they going to continue to stay until they are pulled out of there, until they are arrested?
LIEBERMANN: They are determined to stay. Perhaps the best comparison of what may happen was about a month ago, they protest police brutality and sat in the same style, locked arms outside of police headquarter and they just waited. They repeated some of their initiatives for economic justice, at that point, it was police brutality, determined not to move and police let them sit there blocking the streets for about two days before they moved them at about 2:00 or 3:00 on a Monday morning before traffic came through.
So, police could let them sit here through the night into the morning. They could let them sit here longer. Their permit to start protesting at another location starts tomorrow morning at 9:00. So, conceivably, police could let them sit here until that time when they move to a different site.
ROWLANDS: I know that there has been a lot of political pressure in Philadelphia to get these Occupy folks out. In fact, apparently, there was a report of a clash earlier today between groups. Is the city government and the police specifically under pressure to act?
LIEBERMANN: Well, one of the big projects that the city has been waiting for has been a multi-million dollar, $50 million construction project on the side of city hall. Obviously, that construction project can't move forward without moving Occupy Philly protesters.
And from the start, the city let Occupy Philly know, we have to move you when this construction starts. The construction is scheduled to start tomorrow. So, there's been pressure to create some thousand jobs over two years, to sort of get the city's economic engine.
A lot of people here would like to see Occupy Philly move because there's also been some public health concerns and public safety concerns. Accusations of a sexual assault here a few (AUDIO BREAK) from that side as well to clear out the plaza, and either move them across the street or move it away from city hall all together.
ROWLANDS: All right. Oren Liebermann on the ground for us, reporter with KYW-TV, a developing situation going on in Philadelphia as Occupy protesters are being told to leave. Nothing in terms of violence at this point, but obviously, it's fluid situation. We'll watch it.
Thank you, Oren, for joining us.
A lot of weekend holiday travelers are having to deal with the weather.
Karen MaGinnis is in the Weather Center. A lot of trouble out there for different airports and the roadways.
KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We certainly do. About 42.5 million people were traveling, most on the ground and the highways. But at the airports, that is where you have the congestion. We are starting to see some weather-related delays catch up with us.
Here's some of the delays we are now. Look at New York City. They're looking a little fog and reduced visibility right now at JFK. Ground delays in excess of one hour. Teterboro, we watched Teterboro most of the afternoon. They have had problems as far as wind is going and as far as volume is concerned as well.
Let's take a peek at what's happening at Philadelphia. Both in the news for a couple of reasons. Philadelphia, earlier, they were looking at delays primarily because of fog. It looks like the weather has improved a bit there. Temperatures have been running 10 to 12 degrees above where they should be for this time of the year. Looks like Philadelphia rain is on the way.
Let's look at LAX. The weather is much improved there. A few minor delays being reported at LAX. Primarily, we were looking at a little ceiling. Right now that's not a problem. Looks like it is mostly volume delays expected there.
Here's the real troublemaker. That's a very slow-moving weather system. Because of its slowness, this is really producing the rainfall that will be quite heavy, especially right in this region, this central Tennessee Valley region. If you are traveling up I-75 or 95 over the next 24 to 48 hours, this is going to be the troublesome area as far as the heavy rainfall is concerned. We could see three to six inches of rain in isolated areas.
On the backside of this, could see a little bit in the way of snowfall. Throughout Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, also in to northern Georgia, just north of Atlanta, it looks like that rainfall will be heaviest. But central Tennessee, we get a high volume of traffic there. The Pacific Northwest also, Ted, will be a little unsettled the next 24 hours.
ROWLANDS: Hopefully, people have been watching your weather and the weather reports out there and they have been able to avoid the weather on their way home.
Thank you, Karen.
Well, Black Friday sales numbers are in. Was it a boom or a bust for retailers? And what can it say for the economy in the year ahead? We are talking about that coming up in two minutes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: We have heard plenty of the big Black Friday crowds. Until now, we didn't know how much people spent.
Joining us from New York with the answer is the managing editor of CNNmoney.com, Lex Harris.
Lex, if I had a drum roll, I would give you one. Final number, what happened?
LEX HARRIS, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: Ted, it looks like we actually got a record this year. The National Retail Federation just put out numbers. They are reporting $52 billion in sales. That's up 16 percent from a year ago, which, by any measure, is just shockingly good. Earlier estimates this weekend were 7 percent. The forecast going in to it was 3 percent. Given the state of the U.S. economy, it took a lot of people by surprise, I think.
ROWLANDS: This is bargain hunting at its best and most extreme. What does it say about consumer confidence and the economy as a whole? Does it correlate? Do good Black Friday numbers mean good retail sales throughout the whole season?
HARRIS: Absolutely. That is one of the questions we had going in to it. We sent reporters out, beginning on Thanksgiving, which frankly I feel guilty about.
(LAUGHTER)
We were at Macy's, Target, Toys-R-Us.
(CROSSTALK)
ROWLANDS: My wife was at all of those places, too.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: Absolutely. But basically, we heard two stories. We had people who were feeling financial stress and were there because they needed a bargain. Others were there because they liked the party atmosphere and they were having a good time.
What it really tells us is there's definitely still anxiety in the economy, but -- and this is the story we have seen in a lot of economic reports lately, the bottom has not dropped out, which is a really good sign, given all of the global turmoil we are having right now.
ROWLANDS: Let's look ahead to the financial week. What's coming up?
HARRIS: The big one is Friday. So, talk about anxiety, the jobs report comes out on Friday. This is how many jobs the economy added in November. The forecast right now is a little over 100,000. Unfortunately, we are probably still going to be at a 9 percent unemployment rate. That's the one thing that's still dogging the economy.
I have to mention the European debt crisis. We talked about it a few weeks ago. And, guess what, they have not fixed it yet. You will have European leaders throughout the week talking about it.
ROWLANDS: Lex Harris, thank you for joining us. CNNmoney.com editor, appreciate it, from New York.
Dr. Conrad Murray is just days from being sentenced in the Michael Jackson case. How much time could he get? And a secretly recorded phones conversation surfaces in the child sex abuse case against a Syracuse basketball coach. We're talking with criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, Holly Hughes, next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: In two days, Conrad Murray will find out whether he will be sent to prison for involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson. Sentencing is scheduled for Tuesday in Los Angeles. Both prosecutors and the defense have already made clear what they want this judge to do.
Joining us now, Holly Hughes, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.
Clearly, the prosecution is going for the max, four years. What do you think the judge will do? You have been following this. I sat through the entire case. He's basically ruled against the defense throughout. What do you think he will do here?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think he will impose the max. Here's why. Typically, what the judge will look at is does this defendant have a prior record? Is there anything in his past? But they will also look at the evidence introduced at trial. What we saw here, Ted -- and you know, you were in the courtroom -- was a pattern of egregious behavior. This isn't a one- time thing where someone loses control of a car, has an accident and kills somebody. It is that type of involuntary manslaughter.
ROWLANDS: His behavior was only with this one patient. His other behavior, as a physician, which the defense put up other patients seemed to be the direct opposite.
HUGHES: Exactly. But he was acting as a cardiologist with those other patients. That was his specialty. What the problem is here is he took on a job he was not qualified to do. He started to act as an anesthesiologist and started to administer a very strong drug he had no business administering. If you remember Dr. Steven Shafer's testimony, there were 17 points in which he was grossly negligent, according to the state's expert. So I think we will see the max here.
ROWLANDS: No matter what this judge does, it's up to the state prison and the sheriff in the local district to impose the actual sentence, if you will, in terms of where he will spend it. Let's say he is sentenced to four, he will likely do it in county jail. Do you think he will be able to take advantage of not going to the state pen?
HUGHES: If the judge imposes the max, and this is true in almost every state of the union, the Department of Corrections is an entirely different entity than the bench. They're not the judiciary. So the judiciary says, yes, you have to do four years in prison, that's what I am giving you, but then the Department of Corrections says we have another program we think he is eligible on, put him on the ankle bracelet, and let him serve his sentence at home.
ROWLANDS: We will find that out on Tuesday, when Murray is scheduled to be sentenced.
Let's switch gears to these new explosive developments in the child sex abuse case in Syracuse against Coach Bernie Fine. ESPN released secretly recorded conversation between Fine's wife and one of the accusers. These were from 2002. Bobby Davis was the accuser, who was secretly doing it. Potentially, damning evidence that suggests that Fine's wife not only knew about the abuse but also let it go on.
Let's listen to that recorded conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WIFE OF BERNIE FINE: I know everything that went on with that. And I know everything that went on with them. Bernie has issues. Maybe he is not aware of, but he has issues. And you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted.
BOBBY DAVIS, ACCUSED FINE OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT: Yes.
WIFE OF BERNIE FINE: Bernie is also in denial. I think that he did the things he did. But he's somehow through his own mental telepathy has erased them out of his mind.
You know what, go to a place where there's gay boys. Find yourself a gay boy and, you know, get your rocks off.
(LAUGHTER)
WIFE OF BERNIE FINE: And have it over with it.
DAVIS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
WIFE OF BERNIE FINE: You know, he needs a -- that male companionship that I can't give him, nor is he interested in me and vice versa, because I care about you and I don't want to see you treated that way. And it's hard -- if it was another girl, like I told you, it would be easy to accept that because you know what you are up against, but when it is another guy, you can't compete with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: People listen to that and may say, OK, case closed this guy is guilty but statute of limitations may prove differently. What's the reality with these tapes?
HUGHES: The reality with these tapes is these particular crimes are not punishable because the statute of limitations is five years in New York. Which is why, with the new accuser coming out, we are seeing the federal government has gotten involved, because that is a 10-year statute and double what New York has. If these things happened in 2002, which is the allegation from the new accuser, they have until the same date in 2012 to file charges.
ROWLANDS: The new accuser though does have some issues.
HUGHES: Yes. The problem is the new accuser is also charged with multiple counts of child molestation, child sexual exploitation, inappropriate touching of a child. But we also know, Ted, statistically speaking, that abused children grow up to be abusers a lot of the time. So that could cut both ways. It may play in his favor if they can corroborate maybe with physical evidence or another witness. It may actually turn out to be true. We have to wait and see.
ROWLANDS: All right, Holly Hughes, thank you.
We will have full coverage of this developing story, Bernie Fine story, including the entire story from ESPN of Bobby Davis' recorded phone conversation with Bernie Fine's wife at the top of the hour.
Plus, a live interview with Conrad Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, on the eve of the doctor's sentencing. That is coming up at 7:30 eastern.
Now that super committee, of course, has failed, what is next for Congress? How about a plan that could put some extra cash in your pockets? That's worth sticking around to hear. Stick around. We'll have that after the break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: This week, President Obama heads to Scranton, Pennsylvania, where he'll push for an extension of the payroll tax cut. It's the next big debate before Congress.
Here's CNN's Athena Jones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Obama is hitting the road this week, traveling to Scranton, Pennsylvania on Wednesday, to continue to push for the extension of the payroll tax cut. It's the next big debate before Congress.
(SHOUTING)
JONES: President Obama's message to Congress this holiday season --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't be a Grinch.
(LAUGHTER)
Don't vote to raise taxes on working Americans during the holiday.
JONES: In the wake of the spectacular failure by the super committee tasked with cutting the deficit, a new issue takes center stage on Capitol Hill this week, whether to extend the payroll tax cut that has benefited some 121 million families this year.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D), NEW YORK: It's essential that we do this. We'll keep at it and at it and at it, because it's so important for the economy.
SEN. JON KYL, (R), ARIZONA: The payroll tax holiday has not stimulated job creation. We don't think that is a good way to do it.
JONES: By reducing withholding for Social Security, the tax holiday has meant an extra $934 for the average family at a cost of about $120 billion. It's set to expire at the end of the year. And President Obama took to the stump in New Hampshire last week to urge lawmakers not to let that happen.
OBAMA: Republicans like to talk about, we're the party of tax cuts, but the question they'll have to answer after they get back from Thanksgiving is this, are they really willing to break their oath to never raise taxes?
JONES: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid plans to introduce legislation that would extend the tax cut. A bill to extend unemployment insurance benefits also set to expire would come later.
SEN. PAT TOOMEY, (R), PENNSYLVANIA: We'll take that up, and I think probably some package of that with other features might well pass.
JONES: But passage in the Senate is far from certain. And the bills must also get in the House. The sticking point for these measures, how to pay for them. Democrats could propose a surtax on millionaires to fund the payroll tax cut extension, an idea Republicans oppose.
Some think Congress should worry about paying for these extensions later when the economy is on stronger footing.
DAVID FRUM, EDITOR, FRUMFORUM.COM: The danger from the shock from Europe, those dangers are so enormous. I think what we've got here is a patient with high blood pressure who has been hit by a bus. Let's deal with the bus hit first.
JONES: While both measures whether provide some boost to the economy, unemployment benefits pack more of a punch.
PETER MORICI, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, MARYLAND UNIVERSITY: Unemployment benefits, virtually all the dollars get spent, and so we get a pretty large bang for the buck.
(on camera): Many economists say that failure to extend these measures would stall the already sluggish economy recovery. And that's leaving aside the impact a meltdown in Europe would have.
Athena Jones, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: You might notice that your Internet is running a little slower tomorrow. That's because it's the biggest online shopping day of the season, Cyber Monday. We'll show you where to find the best deals coming up in two minutes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROWLANDS: A shout out to Black Friday shoppers. This year's numbers are in and it looks like folks did indeed shop until they dropped. Retail sales hit record numbers, up 6.6 percent over last year. Consumers spent an average of $11.4 billion on the biggest shopping day of the year. Black Friday online sales were also up 24 percent from last year. Consumers spent slightly more than last year, although they spent most of it on themselves.
If you missed all those Black Friday deals, you still have another shot at saving big in just a few hours. Tomorrow, of course, is Cyber Monday, when retailers offer huge deals online.
Tech reporter, Katie Linendoll, is here to help us break it down and hunt for the best deals.
Katie, let's talk first about the best part of Cyber Monday, no crowds.
(LAUGHTER)
You're by yourself.
KATIE LINENDOLL, TECH EXPERT: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
You don't have to interact with any people. And we know when it comes to holiday shopping, people get a little crazy. And I love these statistics we pulled from eBays.com. 96 percent of adult Americans are dreading in some aspect some form of holiday shopping. And this is my favorite part. Wal-Mart had a $2 waffle iron on Black Friday. You can see the mayhem that happened.
(LAUGHTER)
This video went viral. And if you watch the lady in the blue, her pants fall down.
(LAUGHTER)
This is what you get to avoid on Cyber Monday.
But let's talk about the phrase. It was coined in 2005. Last year we saw a billion dollars on the day. This year we hope to project $1.2 billion in sales. And eight out of 10 retailers, Ted, are hoping to off special discounts online.
ROWLANDS: I guess you have to watch out for scams tomorrow because they'll be out there, too, I would imagine online.
LINENDOLL: Yes, absolutely. Let's give you some tips. With the good comes the bad. A lot of scammers will be using fishing schemes to try to lure you in on big-ticket items. Make sure you really know what you are clicking on and what e-mails you are opening before you do so. They love to cash in on the iPad X-box Connect. Make sure you do know what you're opening. Also, credit cards instead of debit cards. That's an important one because you'll be better protected from fraud and face liability in the event that your credit card number was stolen. Also when you're online shopping, look for the https. That "S" stands for secure. And look for that little padlock to know that you are on a secure site. Also, one people don't think of, restocking fees. Not so much a scamming thing, but people's impulse buy, when they see those big-ticket electronic items, $100 and $200off. Make sure it's something you want because you could get hit with a restocking fee upwards of 25 percent. Also be careful shopping on public Wi-Fi. And 53 percent of consumers planning to shop on Smart Phones. Download an app, like lookout on Android or IOS, to better protect yourself.
ROWLANDS: Favorite sites, favorite deals, what will you be looking for?
LINENDOLL: I have my favorites. First off, let's go to Cyber Monday.com. It's a subsidiary of shop.org. It aggregates all the deal, all the ads. A good place to look. Also two sites that I use year-round, retailmenot.com and savings.com. You can at the least typically get a promotional code for free shipping, but I always find it great in terms of getting 10 percent, 20 percent. Use those year round. Also, Amazon, known for their lightning deals on Cyber Monday. And, of course, social networking sites. There are retailers pigging- backing off social networking sites. Hit that "like" button. If there's a brand that you love, they'll give you, for your loyalty, early leads and special deals on Facebook, of course.
ROWLANDS: Apparently, a lot of folks will be doing this at work. They don't take the day off. They actually do it at work.
(LAUGHTER)
LINENDOLL: That's my favorite statistic. Over 50 percent of people shopping from work. You might as well just give us the day off. Let's he realistic here, right?
(LAUGHTER)
ROWLANDS: Well, yes. You can work and a lot of people surf the net. So theoretically, you could shop. In fact, I think my wife can do pretty much anything and shop on the side.
(LAUGHTER)
ROWLANDS: Katie --
(CROSSTALK)
LINENDOLL: Absolutely. We're multi-taskers.
ROWLANDS: Yes, all right.
Katie, thank you very much. Enjoy shopping online tomorrow. It all starts tomorrow.
