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Coach Fine's Wife: "I Know Everything"; Fallout from Pakistan Incident; Sentencing Tuesday for Jackson's Doctor; Syracuse University Firing Bernie Fine
Aired November 27, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN ANCHOR: You are you in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ted Rowlands, in tonight for Don Lemon.
We begin with major developments in the case against Bernie Fine, a Syracuse associate head baseball coach accused of sexually abusing two former ball boys. Reports today of a third accuser coming forward and perhaps most shockingly, ESPN has released a secretly-recorded conversation in 2002 between Fine's wife Laurie and one of the coaches accusers Bobby Davis. On it, potentially damning evidence that suggests Fine's wife not only knew about the abuse but allowed it to go on.
You're going to hear that conversation in just a moment.
But first the new accuser, 23-year-old Zach Tomaselli, affiliate WCSH spoke to Tomaselli who claims that Fine molested him in Pittsburgh at a hotel when he was 13 the night before a Syracuse game against Pitt. Tomaselli described the alleged abuse in detail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZACK TOMASELLI, ACCUSES FINE OF SEX ABUSE: I was in the hotel room and he was -- he would put his hand down my shorts whenever I was sitting there watching TV. And he would basically fondle me four to maybe even five times. And it would go in spurts between 10 and 15 minutes. And it would stop for a couple hours and then he would start that all over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Tomaselli has his own troubles. He's facing his own charges for allegedly sexually assaulting a 14-year-old boy in Maine in 2009 and 2010. Tomaselli's own father calls him a liar and denies ever meeting Fine or letting his son take a trip with the coach. You'll hear from the father in just a few minutes.
Also this hour: reaction from Fine's attorneys and Syracuse University to the latest claim. We'll also talk with Jon Wertheim, senior investigative reporter for "Sports Illustrated" and you'll also here from ESPN reporter Mark Schwarz. Schwarz is the reporter who broke the story about Bobby Davis secretly recording a conversation in 2002 with Bernie Fine's wife Laura (SIC). We want to play that entire ESPN report for you right now. ESPN says an independent audio analyst has confirmed that the voice you're about to hear is indeed that of Laura Fine. And a warning, what you are about to hear does contain graphic sexual content. Here right now is ESPN's Mark Schwarz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK SCHWARZ, ESPN: Bobby Davis says he knew of one person who could validate that he was being sexually abused by Bernie Fine. That person was Fine's wife, Laurie Fine.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LAURIE FINE, BERNIE FINE'S WIFE: Hello.
BOBBY DAVIS, ALLEGES SEXUAL ABUSE BY BERNIE FINE: Mrs. Fine.
FINE: Yes.
DAVIS: How are you?
FINE: Hi Bobby hi, how are you?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: Davis says that in October of 2002, he recorded a phone conversation with Laurie Fine without her knowledge. A legal act based on the location of both parties. During the call, Fine, seen here in hidden camera video from 2003, discussed the alleged sexual molestation of Davis by her husband, Syracuse associate head basketball coach Bernie Fine.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: What did he want to you do you can be honest with me.
DAVIS: So what do you think? What he always does.
FINE: What, he wants to you grab him?
DAVIS: No, he's -- he's trying to made me grab him, I mean, he's personally he grabbed me in the, you know --
FINE: But you never had any oral sex with him?
DAVIS: No.
FINE: No.
DAVIS: I think he would let but --
FINE: Oh of course he was, he would be.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: After bringing his allegations against Bernie Fine to a Syracuse police detective in 2002 and getting nowhere, Davis says he was determined to confirm his story. He says he hoped Laurie Fine would disclose on tape the details of her own knowledge of the abuse he says started when he was 12 and continued for more than a decade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what were you hoping to accomplish by recording it?
DAVIS: Laurie was a person that I talked to a lot about the situation as I got older and she was there a lot of the times, seen a lot of things that were going on when Bernie would come down o the basement in his house and when I was laying down there. And she had to see him every night do that.
But Laurie was the only one else that knew about what was going on, you know. And saw things that were happening with her own eyes and that we talked about it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: I know everything that went on and I know everything that went on with him. Bernie has issues. Maybe that he's not aware of, but he has issues. And if you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted.
DAVIS: Yes.
FINE: Bernie is also in denial. I think that he did the things did he, but he's somehow through his own mental telepathy of voicing out of his mind --
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: Davis, who periodically stayed here at the Fine's former home beginning in the seventh grade and at one point had his own room in their basement says Laurie Fine told him she was aware that her husband was sexually abusing him.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(INAUDIBLE)
FINE: Yes. I think there's an arrangement on this but it was scared you -- there was something about you.
DAVIS: I wonder why all this can work that now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
DAVIS: One time she told me about an instance where she saw him through the basement window and she left like the blinds open a little bit one night and she actually was standing there and she watched through the window.
SCHWARZ: What did she see?
DAVIS: Bernie grabbing me and touching me. And she said the next day, you know, we got -- this is when I get older I probably like a junior in high school. And you got to step up to him, you got to say something, you got to be a man.
SCHWARZ: During the phone call, Davis explained to Laurie Fine that when he was about 27 years old in the late '90s, he asked Bernie Fine for $5,000 to help pay off some student loans.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: When he gave you the money, what did he want for it? (INAUDIBLE) What he wanted to do to you?
DAVIS: He wanted to do me. He was trying to make it physical. He grabbed my head and I'll away and then he put me in your bed and then put me down and I tried to go away and he --
FINE: Right. Right. He thought he could get what he wanted.
DAVIS: It's not about the money.
FINE: It's about the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'm just telling you, for your own good, you're better just staying away from him.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: During the call Laurie Fine suggested to Davis what her husband should do with his need for male companionship.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: You know what, go to a place where there's gay boy, find yourself a gay boy, you know. Get your rocks off. Have it be over with. You know, he needs that male companionship that I can't give him. He's not interested in me. (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: At one point Laurie Fine seems to say that her husband was not only adult in the Fine household who betrayed Davis' trust.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: There's much more of that report and that secretly-taped conversation ahead. Bobby Davis claiming a twisted relationship with the wife of his alleged abuser. That's coming up, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: We're bringing you the newest developments involving Bernie Fine, the Syracuse associate head basketball coach accused of sexually abusing children. Today a third accuser came forward. And ESPN released a secretly-recorded conversation between Fine's wife Laurie and his initial accuser, Bobby Davis.
Before we went to break, we played part of the ESPN report on that audio tape. Now we want to play the rest of it for you and then immediately afterwards you'll hear from Mark Schwarz the reporter who broke this story. Again we want to warn you, what you're about to hear does contain some graphic sexual content.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: At one point Laurie Fine seems to say that her husband was not the only adult in the Fine household who betrayed Davis' trust.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: Here is what he has to say, he had no business doing what he did with you.
(CROSSTALK)
FINE: Neither did I because I really helped screw you up a little more, too.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: Davis says he and Laurie Fine had a sexual relationship that she initiated when he says he was 18 and a senior in high school.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: Were you ever with her sexually?
DAVIS: Yes.
SCHWARZ: Slept with her?
DAVIS: Yes.
SCHWARZ: Had intercourse with her?
DAVIS: Yes.
SCHWARZ: Does Bernie Fine know about that?
DAVIS: I did tell Bernie. This was as I got older and not like I was a kid. I thought he was going to kill me, but I just I felt like I had to tell him what was going with me and Laurie. And it didn't faze him one bit honestly.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCHWARZ: Later in the call, Laurie Fine tells Davis she wanted to come to his defense. But she just wasn't capable of it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: Because I care about you and I didn't want to see you being treated that way.
DAVIS: Right. FINE: And it's hard -- if it was another girl, it would be easy for me to accept it because you know what you're up against. (INAUDIBLE) But a guy, it's just wrong and you were a kid -- you're a man now, but you were a kid then.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
DANIELLE ROACH, BABYSITTER: This is about a kid who was abused and adults who didn't help, who didn't step in, who in fact sort of allowed it, created a space for it to go on.
SCHWARZ: Danielle Roach who has been friends with Davis since the second grade says that as a teenager, she served as the Fine's baby- sitter for about three years.
Recently, Roach listened for the conversation again. Davis first played the call for her after recording it in 2002.
ROACH: This tape tells me that Laurie knew and watched it go on knowingly that it was going on in her home for a long time.
SCHWARZ: Roach, who is now a mother herself, says she cannot imagine how any mother could know sexual abuse was happening in her home and not act.
ROACH: It's amazing that she can say some of the things she says to Bobby but couldn't pick up a phone and said maybe this isn't the place for your kid. Maybe he shouldn't be here.
SCHWARZ: At the time, Davis says he questioned whether anyone would ever believe his story. Yet Laurie Fine tells him she's already warned her husband, one day, his alleged molestation of Davis might become public.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: I said to him, you know, Bobby and I talked, I said some things about you (INAUDIBLE) that will be let out.
DAVIS: Yes.
FINE: He didn't even flinch.
DAVIS: Yes definitely --
FINE: He says let them go ahead. Sure, let him go bring ahead.
(INAUDIBLE)
FINE: I think he thinks he's above the law.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Certainly a striking report from ESPN, but Davis first gave that audiotape to the network in 2003. Why did ESPN sit on it for eight years before finally reporting on it today?
CNN's Fredricka Whitfield posed that question to the reporter who broke the story, Mark Schwarz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHWARZ: We interviewed Bobby Davis extensively in several locations for dozens of hours, both on the phone, in camera -- on camera, and we had what we thought was a very credible story. However, what we did not have at the time was someone to corroborate the facts of his story, another alleged victim of the same abuser -- the alleged abuser -- in this case Bernie Fine.
We did have the tape at the time as you say and we had Bobby Davis, one victim, but only ten days ago on Thursday, the 17th, did a second victim actually come forward and appear on camera and that was 45- year-old Mike Lang who is the older stepbrother of Bobby Davis who alleged a very similar pattern of abuse from Bernie Fine.
So at that point, our goal was to, first of all, get a voice recognition expert who could verify as much as possible that this was indeed the voice of Laurie Fine
And we also spent time reaching out to the Fines beginning early last week wanting to get their comment. We reached out to them through their attorneys. We did not hear from them. In fact, we got the same release that you did today saying that Mr. Fine will not comment on newspaper stories beyond his initial statement.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: So now what did authorities say about if anything when you went to them if you went to them and said, hey, we have this tape, while we can't get anybody else to corroborate the information on this tape, what can you do with this information?
SCHWARZ: Well, you know, we don't see it as our job to go to authorities with evidence that we collect. We did not go to the authorities with the tape. The authorities did speak to Bobby Davis before the tape was made in 2002. He spoke to a Syracuse police detective who he says spent about five minutes on the phone with him and didn't even do a detective report, told him that the statute of limitations had come and gone.
And that is why Bobby Davies says that he recorded the tape to try to at least corroborate his story this way. He was determined that Laurie Fine who he says had a window into this abuse, in fact literally, one time, saw the abuse going on in the home through a basement window with her husband and Bobby Davis. And she alleged that that actually did happen on the tape.
But once the interviews were done ten days ago with Bobby Davis and Mike Lang, that tape then through them got in the hands of the police department and it is evidence in this case and the district attorney Bill Fitzpatrick also has a copy of the tape.
WHITFIELD: And following the November 17th, that's what alerted the ESPN or you to say let's go try and get this voice recognition. Why was that not done before?
SCHWARZ: Well, it was important to do that if we were actually going to air the tape. I mean these are grave charges. We had to do everything that we could to confirm that the voice was indeed Laurie Fine. Bobby Davis, of course, told us it was Laurie Fine. You hear on the tape that he says "Hello Lori" and she says "Hello Bobby". But in this kind of a case, you have to confirm it. And that's why we wanted to, before airing it, take the extra step to run it by a voice recognition expert who says, "Yes, that is the voice of Laurie Fine" because we compared it to other voice of Laurie Fine, examples that we were able to provide.
WHITFIELD: And who shot the videotape of her behind a counter?
SCHWARZ: We shot hidden camera video in 2003 which was one of the areas where we had, you know, her voice on tape. So we were able to compare her voice from 2003 and the call from 2002. And that's how the voice recognition expert was able to verify for us that that was indeed her voice.
WHITFIELD: And now talk to me about the legality of why that audiotape recording, why Bobby Davis was not breaking the law the way in which he did it.
SCHWARZ: Ok. Well, Bobby Davis made the call from St. George, Utah and the call was received here in Syracuse, New York. Now, both of those states, Utah and New York, are one-party states and what that means by law, it is legal to record a conversation with someone without the second party knowing. So in Utah and in New York, the origin and the source of the call, both states are one-party states, the call was then made legally.
ROWLAND: We're learning more about the third man now accusing Bernie Fine of molesting him. Not everybody believes him, including his own father, who you will hear from. And remember this from just eight days ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BOEHEIM, SYRACUSE HEAD BASKETBALL COACH: I've been friends for 50 years with Coach Fine. And that buys a lot of loyalty from me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Bernie Fine's long-time boss Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim announcing unequivocal support for his assistant coach that he'll speak to soon. We'll talk about that and a lot more with "Sports Illustrated" senior investigative reporter, Jon Wertheim, coming up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: The allegations against Syracuse assistant -- associate coach Bernie Fine first surfaced a couple of weeks ago, but today's disturbing revelations put those accusations in a whole new light.
CNN's Susan Candiotti just spoke with the latest accuser, Zach Tomaselli and also spoke with his father about his son's allegations. Susan, what did Zach have to say about his claims?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he said that he met Bernie Fine when he was only 12 or 13 years old around 2002, 2001, something like that. When he went to a basketball game -- or rather, an autograph signing session and he said -- and he really couldn't explain why, that he and his father met with Bernie Fine at the session and Bernie Fine presented him with an autograph jersey, which he says he doesn't have any more.
He says he doesn't know why, but sometime after that, his father had made an arrangement he assumes for him to meet Bernie Fine to take him to a game. Now, he said that his parents let him get on a bus by himself to go to a Syracuse game against Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh and he went unaccompanied at the age of 12 or 13. Wound up in a hotel lobby where he says Bernie Fine met him there and then took him up to the room. Didn't explain why he would have singled him out, but that's what he said happened.
In any case, he says they went up to a hotel room and that's where he claims he was sexually molested by Bernie Fine and says that Fine showed him pornographic movies in that hotel room.
And then he said sometime after that he had another occasion to meet with him at Bernie Fine's house and that it was after a game that he and his father had attended. He said his father couldn't go over to the house after the game but that they were invited over there and he went by himself and his father allowed him to go by himself. And it was there that again he said there was another case of sexual molestation that occurred there.
Now, we also asked Zach Tomaselli's father about what his son had said. His father said that he's making the whole thing up, that it didn't happen, and that his son is making the whole thing up. Here's what he said on the telephone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED TOMASELLI, FATHER OF FINE ACCUSER ZACK TOMASELLI: I brought him to two or three games in Syracuse, never brought him to a game in Pittsburgh or let him go to a game in Pittsburgh, never went to any after-party, never let him alone doing that kind of thing. We went to a few games and we were always in the nose bleed section, never got good seats near within shouting distance of Bernie Fine. And never talked to Bernie Fine or ever met him. And Zach hasn't either. So it's all fabricated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Clearly a difficult situation Ted because now the police have to investigate all of this and apparently are. According to Zach Tomaselli, he met with Syracuse -- two detectives just a few days ago, they also spoke with him over the telephone and then met him in person, took a statement from him at a meeting earlier in the week. And they said they were going to pursue the case.
They also advised him not to talk he said about this case with any members of the news media, but he said, "I'm doing it anyway." We'll have to see how it all turns out.
ROWLANDS: Yes. What's been the reaction from the rest of the Syracuse community following the new allegations and that audio from ESPN?
CANDIOTTI: Well, you know, it's hard to say how the community is reacting. Certainly a lot of people who were there on the ground in Syracuse, the local media reporting a lot of people feel very strongly in favor of Bernie Fine.
I've not been there myself, so I couldn't tell you firsthand. We have tried to reach out to the various investigating agencies that are looking into this matter, but so far no one is commenting on any of these new allegations. We do know that a search warrant was conducted -- executed, rather, on Bernie Fine's home on Friday and both the, of course, U.S. Attorney's office, the local police are looking into this. District attorney's looking into it. And even the Secret Service because of their expertise in looking at electronic transactions and try to verify that all of this happened.
ROWLANDS: Ok. Susan Candiotti, thank you.
Let's bring in Jon Wertheim, senior investigative reporter for "Sports Illustrated". Jon, just moments ago, you heard Mark Schwarz explain why ESPN waited eight years to release the taped conversation between Laurie Fine and Bobby Davis. Did ESPN handle this right?
Jon Wertheim, senior investigative reporter, "sports Illustrated": Yes, I mean obviously I wasn't privy to their internal discussions. I mean it certainly generically happens all the time that you're given tips or sometimes even forensic material and it just doesn't get to that threshold. They had a second person come forward which apparently pushed this over the edge.
I mean left unsaid so far is that this all is in the shadow of the Penn State situation and you wonder if that's caused us maybe to think twice about how we diminish or take seriously these charges of abuse. But I mean, you know, it's a tough call for ESPN now that a third individual has come forward. I mean that tilts it one way.
On the other hand, these are not choice witnesses we're talking about. They're all sort of a bit problematic. So it's a very strange guess and I guess as Susan says we'll just sort of see how this plays out because it's a lot different from Penn State in a sense this is not an attorney general filing a grand jury report. These are strained charges, these interlocking relationships could be problematic, as well.
ROWLANDS: Absolutely. Let's talk about Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim. He came out very strongly supporting Fine. Will that come back to haunt him now that possibly another accuser has come and this tape obviously speaks for itself? WERTHEIM: Yes, he made a very forceful support of Fine, his long time assistant. And also said look, I'm not Joe Paterno, which was sort of immediately distancing himself from Penn State, and yet at the same time it sort of inevitably led us to sort of link the two. I mean I thought that was a very forceful statement and in retrospect that may end up coming back to haunt him as we find out more.
I mean again, this is one of these things that we'll see how it plays out, but it was unclear to me why given the situation especially coming off of Penn State and sort of given how little we know, why you would make a statement quite that forcefully. On the other hand, this is someone he's obviously very loyal to and, you know, it's a strange set of circumstances; a lot of questions still needing to be asked. So I guess we'll just see how this plays out.
ROWLANDS: You mentioned it earlier. Would we have ever heard about these allegations against Fine if Penn State didn't break first?
WERTHEIM: I mean I think that's an interesting question. Obviously there are other similarities: a long-time assistant who is married and iconic coach who has been in one market the whole time. I mean it's sort of very easy temporally; obviously one coming a few days after the other to link these two.
And I think Penn State has changed. I mean it's horrible to even talk sort of in terms of a silver lining, given how disturbing this is but in the sense that maybe this has caused us to rethink these allegations, perhaps investigate them more thoroughly, take them a bit more seriously. I think it's naive to think that these two aren't related in that sense. But again, you don't want to make too many parallels just given how vastly different these two situations appear to be.
ROWLANDS: All right. As you said earlier, a developing story; we're going to have a lot more obviously in the days and weeks to come.
Jon Wertheim, thank you for joining us tonight.
Coming up next, police surround protesters at Occupy Philadelphia.
And travelers beware of bad weather. Expect long airport and road delays.
We'll update you, coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: Checking some of our top stories. An Occupy showdown in Philadelphia. Protesters under an order to clear out their encampment in a city plaza are not budging. They're supposed to get out by tonight but right now they're sitting down arms interlocked. Police are surrounding them but not moving in as negotiations between the two sides continue.
Pakistanis are outraged over an attack by NATO forces that left 24 soldiers dead. But NATO hasn't offered a full apology yet. The alliances chief says the incident was tragic and unintended. But there are reports that some officials suspect the NATO forces may have come under fire. Pakistan's foreign minister branded the attack totally unacceptable and the country has closed off vital supply lines in to Afghanistan in retaliation.
A Utah man faces charges for allegedly watching child pornography on his laptop while on a Delta flight from Utah to Boston. Officers said a 47-year-old man Grant Smith from Utah was seated in first class on the flight when another passenger alerted the flight crew Saturday. Other passengers reportedly took a cell phone photo of Smith watching the video. He is set to be a arraigned Monday in Boston on charges of possession of child pornography.
Well, the weather has not cooperated with a lot of folks traveling home after the Thanksgiving break. Karen Maginnis is with us in the weather center and depending on when you left grandma's house, I guess, you might be stuck in some messes.
KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We do have quite a multitude of weather situations, mostly wind, rain and fog. Let's show you what's going on. Let's take a look at the flight track right now. It looks like most airports operating pretty nicely. We've got in excess of 5700 airplanes in the sky right now. But here's the frightful part. And that is a very sluggish moving weather system. Area of low pressure just about situated right over the Tennessee River Valley. The frontal system is just slowly going to make its way off towards the east and towards the northeast.
But it is going to linger and as a result we could see a few inches of rainfall right around this Tennessee Valley region that could see three to six. But on the back side of this, even in places like Memphis, Atlanta, it is talking about a few snow flurries. Those novelty snowflakes, nothing very dramatic, but just nonetheless interesting.
We've got a couple of tower cams to show you right now. Let's take a look. This is a view out of Atlanta. It looks pretty benign right now, but in fact, the clouds are starting to roll in. Some of the areas across the western suburbs, they're starting to pick up some of the showers. Temperatures have been running about 10 to 15 degrees above where they should be for this time of year. Which is when the rain comes in, the temperatures drops and as I mentioned, maybe some flurries going into overnight Monday into Tuesday.
Then we take a look at New York City, the Empire State Building and there has been a little bit of fog reported there. Windy weather conditions and some delays that have been reported out of JFK. Want to show you some of these delays that we have right now. We were looking at a really deteriorating condition over the last couple of hours. Teterboro, all afternoon and evening has been on the airport delay list, they are seeing delays now in excess of one hour. White Plains, a smaller airport, but you still gets some of the jets in from Delta and Jetblue and some of the other airlines. But for the most part, they have seen a ground delay here because of reduced visibility. Now it does look like Philadelphia, we've got improving weather conditions there. L.A.X. had some minor delays, but look for Atlanta, Ted, that's going to be the key coming up in the next 24 hours.
ROWLANDS: All right. Folks here in Atlanta, get ready. All right. Thanks, Karen.
Conrad Murray faces sentencing Tuesday in the death of Michael Jackson. Next his attorney J. Michael Flanagan joins us live to talk about what he expects to happen. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: Michael Jackson's former doctor, Conrad Murray, faces sentencing Tuesday in Los Angeles. Murray was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's death. Prosecutors have asked for the maximum sentence, four years and $100 million plus in restitution to Jackson's children. J. Michael Flanagan was on Murray's defense team. He joins us now live from Los Angeles. Thanks for joining us. You are asking for probation for Murray due to, "manifold collateral consequences." Explain that.
J. MICHAEL FLANAGAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CONRAD MURRAY: Well, based upon the guidelines that are set forth in the California rules of court, probation would be indicated in this case. The judge is supposed to consider the nature of the crime, in this case we have no intent. Also supposed to consider the background of the defendant.
And Dr. Murray's background has been impeccable. He's born in poverty. Educated himself. Has done - has donated much of his time to charity. He's been a model citizen. He's been a saver of lives his entire professional life. They're supposed to consider the aggravated circumstances and the mitigating circumstances. The aggravating circumstances are nonexistent in this case. The mitigating circumstances are overwhelming. And such these factors call for probation in this case.
ROWLANDS: You've obviously - Judge Pastor has ruled in the defense especially most of your pretrial motions. What in your gut, what do you think is going to happen here? Is he going to give him the four years?
FLANAGAN: Well I think he's probably going to give him the four years. The probation department, there's a sentencing memorandum. There's a prosecution sentencing memorandum. Of course, we're asking for probation. The prosecution is asking for the max. The probation department has asked for midterm. They think that the mitigating factors are probably in excess of the aggravating factors. What Judge Pastor is going to do is going pin on his what his decision is and based upon what's gone on so far, in this case, I'm anticipating that D. Murray is going to get four years.
ROWLANDS: You have visited Dr. Murray in jail. How is he doing and what does he expect will happen on Tuesday?
FLANAGAN: He doesn't really know what's going to happen. You know, what really should happen is he should be given probation, at worst case scenario low term. I've talk with him a couple times in jail. His spirits are up, but I don't think that he wants to give up on this case. I don't think we're going to quit. And I'm advising him to file an appeal in this matter.
ROWLANDS: What will be the basis of that appeal?
FLANAGAN: There's numerous bases for the appeal. California law provides for sequestration in high publicity cases. O.J. Simpson case, for example, was sequestered. That was probably the highest profile case here in California. Just recently, you recall the Casey Anthony case. That was a sequestered jury. The potential audience is about five million people. There was a billion people that watched this trial. If ever there was a case for sequestration, this was the case. It was covered by all the talk shows and all the commentary.
A vast majority of it was very negative and the jury being exposed to that, I think sequestration is a big issue in this case. We were also subjected to some adverse rulings. The prosecutor did a very good job, he was able to convince the judge that we shouldn't talk about finances of Michael Jackson.
ROWLANDS: You also wanted Arnie Klein in. You wanted Arnie Klein in. Judge Pastor said no to that, as well. All of those things coming up. Do you think that on Tuesday Jackson's family members will address the court? They've been there throughout the trial. Do you think somebody is going to deliver an impact statement?
FLANAGAN: I would think so. We were will in court this last week and David Walgren said that he thought there was going to be individuals speaking. I would just anticipate the only individual they would have speak would be a member of the family.
ROWLANDS: How about you? Do you have anybody getting up - do you have the opportunity to do so?
FLANAGAN: Yes, we do. And we are thinking about doing that also.
ROWLANDS: All right. J. Michael Flanagan, one of Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyers throughout the trial. Murray convicted of involuntary manslaughter facing sentencing next Tuesday. Mr. Flanagan, thanks for joining us.
FLANAGAN: Thank you.
ROWLANDS: Well, up next, abused and exploited children in Haiti given the chance of a lifetime from a well-known actor and Grammy winning artist.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROWLANDS: Haiti, a nation with a disturbing secret. Children abused and exploited, even forbidden to attend school, until an unexpected hero steps in. Actor and Grammy-award winning artist Common takes us through the streets as he makes dream comes true for Haitian children. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So this is (INAUDIBLE), one of the girls that we typically see in the market. We'd see her, we befriend her, say hello, how are you, what's your name. And then she'll tell us where she lives. We're going to go in here which is her home.
She's 10 years old. She's doing work that's beyond her physical strength, that's beyond her capabilities. Work that the adults should be doing. Going a couple times a day to fetch for water.
COMMON, ACTOR: So you use your own instinct and your observation to see if you think is a child in that situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. Again, just some of the signs. Again, sometimes if they have bad skin problems, scabies, or whatever, or marks or scars on their bodies. Their clothes. So these are the kind of things we look for.
COMMON: As we were making the walk, we went through these very narrow gang ways and it was - man, it was like - I started thinking for a young person to have to go through this, like just this tunnel way was like no telling what could happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you can see how small the space is where we have to go to. Imagine her carrying a bucket of water on her head walking through these tight spaces.
COMMON: Going through that, it was like, man, for a young person to have to do this every day and carry - to be carrying whatever they're carrying and doing work back and forth, you never know what could happen. What's going to come out from whatever.
First of all, I wanted to see like what type of human being he was, you know, just from my perception. What we were hoping to accomplish was to allow him to allow her to go to school and not have her working every day when she won't have an opportunity to receive an education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: You can see CNN's "Freedom Project Presents: Common Dreams" in its entirety right after this program, in about 10 minutes.
When we return, funnyman Steve Harvey take as break from his comedy act to help children succeed in life. Stay with us.
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ROWLANDS: What's the best way to teach young people how to succeed in life? CNN education contributor Steve Perry sits down with comedian Steve Harvey and his wife for a serious discussion about giving kids direction through mentoring.
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STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): Comedian Steve Harvey believes being a man is no joke.
STEVE HARVEY, THE STEVE AND MARJORIE HARVEY FOUNDATION: Real men respect women. Real men go to work every day. Real men work hard - that's what real men do.
PERRY: Since 2009 Harvey's mentoring weekend has welcomed teen boys from single mom households. It's an all male event with a heavy dose of tough love.
STEVE HARVEY: We have a program that works and we give you a snapshot of what manhood is.
PERRY: Harvey's wife hosts Girls Who Rule the World to promote self- esteem and leadership.
STEVE HARVEY: Mentoring gives a child what to shoot for. It's a new target. Instead of what they see in their neighborhoods.
MARJORIE HARVEY, THE STEVE AND MARJORIE HARVEY FOUNDATION: And it's also giving the kids to understand about making the right decisions. You have to be accountable.
PERRY: Lessons both Steve and Marjorie learned from their dads.
MARJORIE HARVEY: My father taught me so many lessons, the way a man should treat a woman. The way a father is supposed to be.
STEVE HARVEY: My father was the greatest influence in my life. You got to find somebody to be like and that's why (INAUDIBLE) the kids who don't have fathers.
PERRY (on camera): What's something that you think people should know about how they can be impactful?
MARJORIE HARVEY: We all have stuff that we deal with that we can learn from each other.
STEVE HARVEY: We've got to turn these boys around. We're losing a generation here. We're spiraling out of control unless we stop it.
PERRY (voice-over): Steve Perry, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: We're getting some new information in on the developing case involving Syracuse assistant basketball coach Bernie Fine. We'll have that for you right after the break. Stay with us.
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ROWLANDS: We're getting some breaking news into CNN. Syracuse University has just released a statement essentially saying that they are firing associate head coach Bernie Fine. Let's take a look at the statement. It is from Syracuse University, it's a very short statement. It says "At the direction of Chancellor Kantor, Bernie Fine's employment with Syracuse University has been terminated effective immediately." Of course, Bernie Fine is accused of potentially molesting two ball boys, a third potential victim also surfaced today and ESPN released some audio recordings of Bernie Fine's wife with one of those potential victims. Those were released today. "Sports Illustrated" senior investigative reporter Jon Wertheim joins us now on the phone. John, I guess this isn't a huge surprise given all that has come down specifically today.
JON WERTHEIM, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED" SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (ON THE PHONE): You know, I mean given what we've known in the last 24 hour, both legal involvement, the search of his residence and obviously this tape which sort of speaks for itself, you know, it was clear his employment was going to be in peril. I think what's interesting there is I don't know if it's still the case but there was supposed to be a scheduled news conference tomorrow.
Jim Boeheim was going to apparently say a few words and I don't know if that is going to stick. But you know, given where the situation is going, now with a third accuser however problematic he may be it was pretty clear that his employment at Syracuse was going to be jeopardized.
ROWLANDS: And the third accuser that came out today has raised some eyebrows in terms of his credibility, the fact that his father has come out basically saying that his son is lying about the entire episode. Do you think that this move by the university is more geared to those audiotapes which were released by ESPN?
WERTHEIM: Yes, I mean I think if you look at the totality of it and we leave the third accuser out of it, just considering that we have multiple accusers, to get that audiotape and again that's fairly damning. We've got now police involvement with the search yesterday and given that the landscape here and in the wake of Penn State and the fact that this was a, you know, a university, I think it was pretty clear where this was headed and, you know, again, what's going to be interesting is the fallout here and Jim Boeheim as we talked about was very forceful 10 days ago or so in defending Bernie Fine. This was someone he had known for five decades. Loyal longtime assistant and where the head coach Jim Boeheim, now stands on this will be something to follow in the next few days obviously.
ROWLANDS: And, of course, where the university stands may - some people may be thinking oh this is another Penn state but this is much different. There wasn't an investigation by the university or police when the allegations first surfaced, correct?
WERTHEIM: Correct. Yes, exactly. I mean this again, you know, as eager as we are to drop parallels, it's a big difference between the attorney general spending years and taking depositions and having people under oath and testifying before a grand jury and this situation where you have had some corroboration issues and you've got some statute of limitations issues but again given the climate you can't have someone like that on your staff. ROWLANDS: Understood. All right. Jon Wertheim, thank you. We'll have more coming up later at CNN on this developing story. Again, the headline, Syracuse University firing Bernie Fine.
I'm Ted Rowlands at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
I'll see you back here at 10 o'clock Eastern. More on the Syracuse story -- we'll talk with the sports editor of the Daily Orange, the Syracuse University campus newpaper.
Good night.
