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Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples; Herman Cain In or Out?; Occupy Protests Changing Locations; Central Banks Step in To Alleviate Liquidity Problem in Europe; Man Whose Traveling Companion Disappeared in Aruba Gives Interview; New Company Promoting Solar Powered Roadways; Presidential Motorcade Causes Traffic Jam in New York City

Aired December 01, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour.

I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here on "Reporter Roulette": winds just about as strong as a hurricane hitting Southern California.

Also, today's markets struggling just to stay in positive territory.

And a church bars interracial couples from entering.

Time to play "Reporter Roulette" here.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

BALDWIN: And that's your "Reporter Roulette" here.

Now let me tell you about this Kentucky church. This church has banned interracial couples.

Watch this piece. This is from Carrie Cline of our affiliate WSAZ in Pike County, Kentucky.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN HARVILLE, FATHER: It's racist. That's all you can call it.

CARRIE CLINE, WSAZ REPORTER (voice-over): Dean Harville is living it firsthand. The church he's attended for more than 30 years and raised his family in has taken issue with his daughter, Suzie, and her black fiance, Ticha Chikuni. He is originally from Zimbabwe.

HARVILLE: I treat him just like he's my own son. You won't find a nicer person.

CLINE: The couple that met in college recently attended services at Gulnare Freewill Baptist Church. The small country church in Pike County, Kentucky, about 15 miles north of Pikeville, is the church Suzie grew up in. Suzie played the piano. Ticha sang. D. HARVILLE: The pastor came up and told me while I was coming to church often, Suzie and her boyfriend is not allowed to sing in this church anymore. He said, furthermore, Suzie can take her fellow back where she found him at.

CLINE: Then came this policy voted on and approved by the congregation banning interracial couples from joining the church or having any role in their services.

(on camera): It is intended to promote greater unity?

(LAUGHTER)

CLINE: How are you promoting unity by excluding a group of people?

D. HARVILLE: You're not.

SUZIE HARVILLE, BARRED FROM WORSHIPING: It is just a travesty. They have crossed the line in revoking my fiance and I's right to worship in a public place.

CLINE: Even though the policy specifically states interracial couples, I was curious. Would I be welcome here?

D. HARVILLE: As of right now, no.

CLINE (voice-over): And it's a policy that is not sitting well with the majority of the community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows their ignorance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Carrie Cline from Pike County, Kentucky, affiliate WSAZ.

Thirteen people are dead, 31 others hurt in this market in Iraq -- details on this bomb blast coming up.

Also, we have gotten word of a possible plea deal in the Penn State child rape case, but now we are hearing something quite different from that.

Also, a "Dancing With the Stars" superstar pays a visit to the Pentagon. We're going to show you why -- those stories and more in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: And now if it's interesting and happening right now, you're about to see it, "Rapid Fire."

Let's go, beginning with some news just in to us here at CNN. It relates to the case of that 70-year-old American who was kidnapped in Pakistan. So, the leader of al Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahri, has claimed responsibility for the capture of Warren Weinstein. This is according to a site, it's a Web site that monitors terrorist activity. Perhaps you remember our reporting on the disappearance of Weinstein. He was working and living in Lahore, Pakistan, when these three men entered his home, posed as neighbors delivering food. They pistol- whipped him, pistol-whipped his driver, tied up his guards. That's the news. Any more, we will pass it along.

Also, a lawyer for Jerry Sandusky says the former Penn State defensive coach is not considering a plea deal, not considering it. Attorney Joe Amendola is there, that is him on the right side of your screen. He responded to a "Harrisburg Patriot-News" article quoting him as saying he might have to talk with Sandusky about a plea if more sex abuse allegations are made. Amendola says he was responding to a what-if question. He said Sandusky still maintains his innocence and there has been no discussion of a plea.

Near Baghdad today, at least 13 people were killed by a car bomb at this fruit and vegetable market; 31 others were injured. And against this violent backdrop, the continued withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq is happening. Nearly all American troops will be out of the country by the end of the year.

And some frightening moments during the time-out. This is last night. This is the Michigan state basketball game. And you see this young woman. She falls. She is an MSU cheerleader. Her name is Taylor Young, falls flat on her face there on the hardwood floor mid-routine. She was carried off there in a stretcher, but wait for it. You will see the two thumbs, thumbs up to the crowd. And she is reportedly doing just fine today.

And to the Pentagon, we go. The folks there got a visit from the latest hot young dancing sensation today fresh off his win on "Dancing With the Stars." Iraq war veteran J.R. Martinez was greeted by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta as promised. Martinez told the secretary he wants to work on connecting you, the American public, with military veterans, especially wounded warriors.

And just ahead, what you don't get to see on the news when it comes to Occupy Wall Street. Poppy Harlow takes us inside the nerve center of the operation, if you will.

And is he going to stay in the race? If he does step aside, where will his supporters go? We're talking Republican presidential -- Herman Cain with our own Gloria Borger after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The big question a lot of you want answered, is Herman Cain in, is Herman Cain out of the presidential race, the GOP presidential race thus far? He says there will be no final decision until he meets with his wife and family, who he will be seeing tomorrow.

So, let's talk to chief political analyst Gloria Borger in Washington.

Can he survive? Can he survive the firestorm and stay a candidate?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think -- I think if he wants to stay in and he has the money coming in to continue in the race and he does have a core group of supporters, he can do whatever he wants.

He is not going to win the Republican nomination at this point. His campaign has already been losing altitude even before this recent allegation, as you know, Brooke, because of problems he's had on substance, on questions of whether he knows anything about Libya policy, for example, whether his 999 tax plan, the national sales tax in it, is a good idea.

But what he has been saying over and over again in these interviews, including with Wolf Blitzer, is that he has got to talk to his wife. He hasn't seen her. He is going to see her tomorrow. And I would think that would probably be, just guessing here, the most important conversation that he can have about this issue, because if the toll is too great on her and on his family, he has consistently said he is going to get out of the race.

So let's see what happens with his family tomorrow.

BALDWIN: Yes, he told Jim Acosta yesterday in Ohio next couple of days, next couple of days. We will wait for that.

Meantime, let's talk about your opinion piece, let's talk about your column because you wrote it, CNN.com/opinion. I always like to get that out there. You talk about the ongoing search for Republicans to find the perfect candidate.

Newt Gingrich, we know the numbers, the latest poll on top, but he has got a lot of baggage, Gloria Borger. Let me read what you wrote here -- quote -- "Any historian knows that Newt has a long personal history of self-destruction. He became famous as the architect of the GOP revolution in 1994 that made him House speaker, then infamous as a lead critic of Bill Clinton's presidential affair while Gingrich was privately involved in one of his own. He is the man who calling for civil Lincoln-Douglas-style debates. He's also the man who has called Obama the most successful food stamp president in American history. How polite."

BORGER: Well, he is a man of great contrasts, Newt Gingrich.

I must say, I don't want to give away age here or anything, but I covered Newt when he was speaker of the House and during impeachment. And Newt Gingrich was incredibly controversial and ended up resigning as speaker because he lost seats in the House for the Republicans and that became a huge problem for him. He had ethics issues.

But when you talk to people in the Romney campaign, what is interesting is that they say that when they do their focus groups, the voters really aren't aware of Newt Gingrich's controversial history, both personally and politically. And so you can be sure that the Romney campaign will be reminding the voters about that if this does become a head-on-head race, which it looks like it is.

BALDWIN: Right, two-man race, essentially, I remember you saying after our CNN debate. You said, look, you just never really know which Newt Gingrich you're going to get.

And speaking of Newt Gingrich, right, so he's at the top of the poll. Someone who is trying to chip away at that, Ron Paul, his campaign released this Web ad. Let's just watch a piece.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're an embarrassment to our party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's flipped and flopped based on who is paying him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is demonstrating himself to be the very essence of the Washington insiders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about serial hypocrisy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So Gloria, as long as Newt Gingrich is the flavor of the week, is he just facing this kind of scrutiny every day?

BORGER: Yes, he will.

And I will tell you what. The Romney campaign is probably very happy that Ron Paul is the one attacking Newt Gingrich for being a flip- flopper, because after all, Mitt Romney has some problem on the flip- flop issue of his own. So if somebody else is attacking Newt for that, that's fine.

And, also, they kind of like the attack to be leveled from the other candidates. Let the other candidates fight amongst themselves. That's always good for Mitt Romney. I'm sure he would love Herman Cain to stay in, for example, because they can then divide up the vote and then his campaign hopes he can rise to the top.

So from the Romney campaign, keep it coming from Ron Paul on Newt Gingrich. But, yes, Newt can expect a lot more of this.

BALDWIN: Read Gloria's column, CNN.com/opinion.

BORGER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Gloria Borger, thank you, ma'am.

And with many Occupy encampments now dismantled, we will talk about the stock market, shall we? A huge jump in stocks yesterday, today not so much. Let's look at the numbers, down just a smidge, 16 points, quite the opposite from that rally we saw yesterday.

What's happening, this is mostly because of the world central banks stepping in to help fix the growing economic problems. But it is having a very different effect on your retirement savings.

Christine Romans explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What are the world central banks doing? It's complicated. Really complicated.

They're doing what politicians can't or won't do. They're making sure that there is money flowing between Europe's banks.

They're lowering prices on dollar liquidity swaps. What's a swap? A swap is when the Fed provides dollars to a foreign central bank and then gets foreign currency in return. Those swaps and arrangements like them are the lifeblood of short-term operations for banks.

Why now? Because those swaps between the banks were getting more expensive. And a credit freeze was looking more and more likely. Since May, the cost for European banks to borrow dollars from other European banks has been skyrocketing. It has been more expensive to get access to dollar funding.

And now it is at levels not seen since Lehman Brothers collapsed in late 2008. It is causing a lot of concern in global markets. We all remember what happened after Lehman Brothers collapsed, a credit freeze that closed factories, killed business, and wiped out millions of jobs around the world.

So the Federal Reserve here in the U.S., the central banks of England, Japan, Switzerland, and Canada, they want to keep the money flowing so that households can borrow, companies can pay their bills, and you can get paid at work.

Another player in here in a separate move was China. China loosened bank rules there to keep money flowing as well at about the same time, the ECB and the Fed and all these other banks around the world announced their move. So some are wondering if all of this is a worldwide coordinated effort to keep Europe afloat here.

Now, all this is good news, of course, a very positive action in a still pretty negative and dangerous situation in the credit markets. The underlying problems are still there, make no mistake.

Those problems are an escalating sovereign debt crisis in Europe. That threatens to tear apart the Eurozone. Europe basically is still on the brink. And there is pretty much very little time to fix it before borrowing costs rise more, the credit markets potentially lock up. Then you would have stock markets buckling and companies couldn't get funding to do anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: With so many Occupy encampments now dismantled, you might think that the Occupy movement has pretty much fizzled out, but it has not.

Our own Poppy Harlow The protest have simply moved indoors.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY. COM CORRESPONDENT: Zuccotti Park is nearly all cleared out, but Occupy has moved to places that you probably wouldn't expect, including an office right off of Wall Street.

MEGAN HAYES, OCCUPIER: You walk in and get a name tag like this.

HARLOW: Is this Occupy headquarters?

HAYES: Not at all. This is one of our offices. Because they closed Zuccotti Park we are spreading out our resources so we can have people join us and continue to work and plan.

HARLOW: Show us around.

HAYES: This is some of our working spaces. You can see lots of occupiers working here. We have some offices to help people staying in the park who are now homeless.

HARLOW: Copy machines.

HAYES: As every office needs, we have our copy machines.

HARLOW: Rent in Manhattan is not cheap. How are you paying for this? HAYES: We are not. It's donations. Our office furniture was donated. Our food, water donated.

HARLOW: This really stands out to me walking in here. What print media is say being the movement today. So they're posting all the stuff that we, the media, are putting out there. You are keeping an eye on us.

HAYES: Of course.

HARLOW: Is it a more professional movement now? You have an office. Is it different now?

HAYWOOD CAREY, OCCUPIER: No, I don't think so. One of the things we are trying to reconcile here is we are trying to show the world a different way of doing things. And though we may be in an office space, we want to stay true to exactly who we are.

HARLOW: So there is no boss on this office floor?

CAREY: Absolutely not. We are a movement without leadership. People will say a bunch of anarchists can't run anything. They will do whatever they want. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have layer upon layer upon layer of structure, regulations, guidelines. The difference is that we as a people came up with those.

HARLOW: Here right next to the New York stock exchange and Trump building is another public meeting area for Occupy Wall Street where a lot of them have gone since Zuccotti Park got evicted.

CAREY: It is a little bit ironic this is actually the lobby of a bank, but that actually makes it so much more important to us.

HARLOW: Is this as important as your office is that we were in earlier.

CAREY: This space is much more important than the office.

HARLOW: Why?

CAREY: Because what you are seeing right here is decision- making. I can't tell you what we are going to look like in a year. But what I can say is what you see around here is what is going to determine what we look like.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Poppy Harlow.

And speaking of Wall Street, the champagne has run out on the Street. Take a look at the numbers here, as we're half-an-hour away from the closing bell. Blue-chip stocks, they have leveled out today after that huge surge, in fact, biggest surge in two-and-a-half years.

That happened just Wednesday and we were watching. It was up 490 points. So, the big surge followed news of the Fed intervening in Europe, freeing up U.S. dollars to try to blunt a credit crisis caused by excessive government debt.

Now, I know you hear a lot of this. Sometimes, it kind of makes your head spin. So follow me if you would, because we have Catherine Mann. She's a professor of economics at Brandeis International Business School, Brandeis some 10 miles down the road from Boston.

And, if you would, Catherine, just help us understand this, because we know that -- we're told the European banks have stopped lending amongst themselves, hence the credit crisis, because they have lost trust. A lot of this, it sounds like, comes down to trust in one another.

So, two things, Catherine. Why is the circular lending among the banks so, so crucial, and, two, why don't they trust each other anymore?

CATHERINE MANN, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS SCHOOL: Well, the first question is, why is it important that banks lend to each other?

That's the way that banks sort of even out their funding on a daily basis. It is called overnight lending. And that's exactly what it is. They're lending overnight. Sometimes, it is for a longer period than that. But it is basically one bank lending to another. They have got a little extra. They're not lending it out or they're not using it for their own trading activities.

So they lend it to another bank for an overnight interest rate. There's a standard interest rate that we use, we look at in order to understand how risky banks think each other is as a lending partner. It is called the Libor-OIS spread, overnight index spread.

And starting in about midsummer, that rate started to rise. And it has been continuously rising through yesterday. And it was that increase in the riskiness that banks perceived in lending to each other that really caused the central banks as a group cooperatively to intervene in the overnight lending market.

PROF. CATHERINE MANN, BRADEIS INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS: So now, if banks need to borrow from another bank and maybe they can't borrow from another bank, they can go to their own central bank and borrow from that central bank. And the rate at which the central banks charge them, that's now cheaper.

It's 50 basis points instead of 100 basis points. So it is a measure of trust. The market interest rate between banks is a measure of trust. That indicator has been rising through the summer, and central banks didn't want that indicator to get out of hand, didn't want it to get so expensive for banks to borrow from each other. And so that's why they intervened and arranged for the swap lines between the central banks.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: So given all of that and the lack of trust that you outlined. Then you have the president, President Obama, meeting with the Europeans just this past Monday. And I want to play a portion of how he explained the U.S. interests overseas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Europe is contracting or Europe is having difficulties, then it is much more difficult for us to create good jobs here at home because we send so many of our products and services to Europe. It is such an important trading partner for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Important trading partner. Obviously we need Europe to buy our products, right? If Europe goes south, my question is then what American industries would really get hit first? And how far could this spread? How bad could it get?

MANN: Europe is our most significant trading partner for us in capital goods. That's the heavy stuff that drops on your foot. Also in some financial services, education. Also very important for pharmaceuticals.

The other characteristic about trade with Europe is that it is very important for our multinationals. And so profits earned in Europe are very important for profits overall for the multinationals. So Europe going south in terms of very slow growth rate would be, would make it more difficult for the U.S. to use, demand for our exports as a platform for supporting U.S. GDP.

Exports have been very important over the past couple of years in supporting GDP growth where U.S. consumers have been a little bit tight with your pocketbook. Business investment has been a little bit low. And even the government has started to contract its spending. So exports has been the bright light for GDP growth. And when Europe has not really been growing very quickly, that bright light kind of dims a little bit. But I think we ought to separate out the central bank swap line. We have to separate out the central bank swap lines, which was an emergency response, to inter-bank lending, bank to bank lending, and overall economic growth in Europe. The two are related but not very tightly.

BALDWIN: With regard to Europe, we keep hearing about Germany. "Wall Street Journal," paragraph number two, I'm going to tell you a joke. I've never done this on TV, but I'm going to do this. A joke the rounds, a Greek, an Italian, and a Spaniard walk into a bar. Each orders a drink. Who pays? The Germans. The Germans pay because they're the ones who are bailing you out. Is that the crux of the issue in Europe?

MANN: Well, there are a number different issues in Europe. One is it is true that, from the face of it, you can say, yes, the Germans are bailing out the rest of Europe. But if we look below the surface at a much more complex set of issues, what we see is that the Germans do save a lot. They save by putting their money into their local banks. Their local banks want to give their depositors good return on their money. So those banks go look for good or at least high yielding investments.

What were those high yielding investments? Well, they were U.S. asset backed securities, number one. And number two, they were high yielding government bonds issued by other governments in Europe.

Now, they've, those German banks have taken a big hit on their American debt, American obligations, the asset backed securities, and now they're being threatened with taking a big hit on their sovereign debt from the other governments.

But we have to remember that those banks in Germany were lending because -- to these high risk, relatively high risk obligations because they weren't getting a high return. So when Germany bails out -- when Germany bails out Greece, Spain, and France, they're bailing out themselves. They're bailing out their own banks. That's the final word.

BALDWIN: Catherine, thank you very much. We'll see what this intervention does with regard to Europe and the rest of us.

Next, question -- did you see Gary Giordano's first interview this morning since he was released from that jail in Aruba. He had a lot to say about his final days with his Robyn Gardner, his traveling companion, like what he was doing with an insurance policy taken out on her and why he looked so calm walking door to door looking for her. It was all very curious. Sunny Hostin is "On the Case," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The man at the center of the missing woman in Aruba is back in the United States. He is Gary Giordano. In fact his first stop, an interview on "Good Morning, America." Giordano denies having anything to do with the disappearance of this woman, his traveling companion, Robyn Gardner. He also explains the massive life insurance policy he bought for her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY GIORDANO, TRAVEL COMPANION DISAPPEARED IN ARUBA: I can't unselect Robyn. When it came down to the accident insurance, you can't unselect her. So when I selected that, I was selecting it for me and she got the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in Sunny Hostin. As always she is "On the Case" with this. I want to show a little more of Gary Giordano from this morning. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question on everyone's mind, Gary, and you know this. They want to know if you had anything to do --

GIORDANO: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. In my mind --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel responsible at all?

GIORDANO: I feel as if a person that I cared about, a companion, if I was traveling with you or you, has disappeared on my watch. It will weigh heavily on me for a very long time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you have done anything differently?

GIORDANO: Absolutely. That's a silly question. That's really -- of course. There is a missing person. I would do something different? Yes. I wouldn't have gone. I wouldn't have left. You can't un-ring a bell, though, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Sunny, you watched it. How did you think he did, number one? And number work the do you think it was smart for him to give a national interview?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: I actually think he did quite well. Let's face it, especially in the wake of other high profile interviews like Jerry Sandusky where I don't think he did very well, I thought Gary Giordano did quite well.

And he adamantly denied having anything to do with her disappearance. And he also gave viable explanations to the questions that we all had. I think the biggest question for so many people, Brooke, why do you take out a $1.5 million travel policy out on somebody you just met, someone that's not your spouse. He said I was going to get the American travel express policy for myself. It is travel insurance. And Brooke, we all get that, right? I get that when I'm traveling.

BALDWIN: When you go out of the country.

HOSTIN: He said he couldn't uncheck it. I thought that was viable. I think he also explained why two days later he did call that insurance company. A lot of people said, whoa, that doesn't make sense. He said his lawyer told him to do it because he may have had to have paid for the search. He is in a foreign country.

So all in all, I think he did quite well. And he also staged it pretty well. He has his attorney next to him. He has his three boys behind him. All in all, this was likely a smart move.

BALDWIN: Let's just talk about Aruba and the justice system. We saw what happened in the Natalee Holloway case. Joran Van Der Sloot, he was allowed to leave Aruba, never went back. Now we know he is in Peru in jail waiting to see if he'll go to jail for the murder of Stephanie Flores. So how reliable is the justice system in Aruba to begin with?

HOSTIN: You know, I don't think we can compare the Natalee Holloway case with the Robyn Gardner case. I don't think we can. I think the circumstances are so very different. Of course, the Aruban system is based on the Dutch system.

It is very different from our own because you can hold someone without arresting them whereas here you can't arrest someone without this evidence and you certainly can't hold them. So it is a different system. We don't hear that much about Dutch law going bad, Brooke. So I don't think -- you can't compare the two cases.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you very much, "On the Case" for us on this Thursday.

This next story might turn some stomachs, because after all, we are in America. We don't eat meat that comes from horses here. But they do eat horse meat in other countries, and it is part of the reason why it is legal in the U.S., again, slaughterhouses. But there is a condition there. We'll talk with a lawmaker in Wyoming who was glad to see the government allow horse slaughter once again.

But first, electric cars driving on roads that produce electricity may sound like a green dream. But it may not be. We're going to take a look at the true story of a possible highway of the future in this "Solutions."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: A single invention promises to make driving greener, safer, and cheaper. It is not a new car. It is a new road.

SCOTT BRUSAW, CO-FOUNDER, SOLAR ROADWAYS: A lot of people, at least initially, thought we were of our rockers.

BALDWIN: Scott Brusaw created Solar Roadways, a company developing glass road panels embedded with solar cells. So where we see asphalt and concrete, Brusaw sees opportunity.

BRUSAW: If you could replace all the asphalt in the concrete surfaces in the lower 48 states, the road could provide electricity of the nation, surrounding buildings and homes or whatever. BALDWIN: For those wondering if the glass will break, the developers say each 12 by 12 foot panel can support at least 80 tons. A solar roadway can light up to let you know there is an accident ahead or heat up to melt snow in the winter.

BRUSAW: That's the fun part of coming up more and more ideas and realizing, this is a wonderful thing.

BALDWIN: Solar roadway is still working on the prototype. Up next, they're building a lot to test in all weather conditions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Americans eat all kinds of meat. Horse may not be one of them, but that could soon change. A five-year ban on slaughtering horses for human consumption was very quietly lifted last month. We asked the USDA about it. They said if any slaughterhouses begin processing horse meat, the government will resume its mandatory inspections. That means in theory that horse meat could start showing up in restaurants and butcher shops.

I want to go to Wyoming and bring in legislator Sue Wallis. Miss Wallis, I presume in Wyoming horses are big, big business for you. What is the appeal of this ban being lifted on processing horse meat?

SUE WALLIS, WYOMING STATE HOUSE: Thank you very much for having me. You know, I lead a group of people, the United Horsemen. They're horse people from all across the country and the core issue for us here is horse welfare. Back in May, June of this year, GAO, the Government Accountability Office, produced a report called horse welfare. Action need to address the unintended consequences of domestic cessation.

And the fact is, that 18-month study proved that by closing the plants that were offering a humane responsible option for horses that weren't needed or not wanted for other purposes, losing that option actually doomed thousands and thousands of horses to miserable deaths, being abandoned, being turned out on roads and hit by cars, in the west where we have a lot of open country. Those horses were turned out. Domestic horses used to being cared for, used to being fed turned out in the desert where they don't know where the water is. Don't know where the feed is. And so they suffered. So that's the reason why we need this back.

BALDWIN: If I may, though, jump in, because we're hearing from just on the flipside, the humane society. I know that they've already published a horse slaughter petition act. I just want to read part of the statement we've gotten here saying, quote, "When horse slaughter did exist in the USDA, the documentation confirms that it was a bloody and terrifying process." "Bloody and terrifying," does that sound OK to you?

WALLIS: No, no, it doesn't. That's absolutely false. The United States has very, very high standards for animal welfare. And all animals that we process, the cattle, the hogs, the sheep that we process and use for food in this country are all processed under the United States humane methods of slaughter laws that have been on the books since at least the 1950s and probably longer. And those laws absolutely require the humane handling of all animals, including horses in that system. And that was the case with horses. So that statement is simply false.

BALDWIN: With all due respect, it's the Humane Society and they're citing USDA documentation. I do want to ask you, if your state does open a slaughterhouse, who is eating horse meat? I understand it is a delicacy in parts of the world. So would it primarily be an export?

WALLIS: It is actually a staple meat in most of the world. China is the largest consumer followed closely by Mexico. Mexico exports 50 percent of their production, but use 50 percent right there at home. You can find it in Canada. I've enjoyed meals of it in Montreal, Vancouver.

BALDWIN: So you've eaten meals of it?

WALLIS: I have. So it's widely used throughout the world. It's considered just an ordinary food source. In some areas, and some cuts just like beef, the hamburger is more affordable, but then you have the high-end cuts that bring a lot more money. That's the same with horse meat.

BALDWIN: Sue Wallis, she represents Wyoming. She is in Tampa, Florida right now. Thank you so much.

Next, how many bows and bows do they have at the White House this time of year? Christmas at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in today's political pop.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: "THE SITUATION ROOM" coming up in a couple of minutes. Let's bring in Wolf Blitzer, who apparently at the top of my show, I saw a little Wolf Blitzer, Kermit the Frog action happening. He was talking politics with you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": He's going to be joining me here. A really special guest in "THE SITUATION ROOM," Kermit the Frog. He's a journalist like you and me.

BALDWIN: Obviously.

BLITZER: There's a little picture of Kermit. We had a great time together. I got to know him. He's deep. Got some serious thoughts on what's going on in the world. Kermit the Frog and Wolf Blitzer -- did you ever think a frog and a Wolf would be on television together?

BALDWIN: A frog and a Wolf talking about the Newt, so it was good TV.

BLITZER: A Newt -- a frog, a Wolf, a Newt. It's all happening here in "THE SITUATION ROOM" coming up at the top of the hour. You're going to want to see this interview with Kermit, I know you do, Brooke. And you know what you're going to do after? You'll tweet about it.

BALDWIN: You know me well, Wolf Blitzer, my friend. We'll look for that and more serious news coming up in the next hour in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Wolf Blitzer, thank you very much.

Meantime, for me, nothing get New Yorkers red faced quite like traffic. President Obama's campaign collision with Christmas in today's Political Pop.

But first, have you been watching CNN today? Who said this line that's in the news today, "I just am." Three words, "I just am," the quote of the day revealed next.

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BALDWIN: If you were watching CNN earlier today, you might have heard our quote of the day. Who or what said "I just am"? The answer, Apple iPhone 4 personal assistant Siri. When asked the question, Siri, why are you against abortion, Siri responds "I just am."

Apple has been accused of allowing a political agenda to creep into the program, but they told "The New York Times" it's not intentional and the final product Siri will be different in the coming weeks.

And now, it was a clash of campaigning in Christmas in the big apple last night. In a city that has its fair share of traffic jams, a big event like the lighting of the Christmas tree -- there you go -- in Rockefeller Center is certainly enough to clog the streets of Manhattan. But toss in a presidential motorcade and you've got a mess and a story that's ripe for Political Pop. Joe Johns is there. Joe, you're living in D.C. That presidential motorcade rolls through and you stop for a while.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It's crazy. You absolutely stop. Have you ever been to New York for this? It can be crazy.

BALDWIN: Yes, for the tree?

JOHNS: Absolutely. There's one thing New Yorkers are experts on, it's the traffic and they don't take kindly to out-of-towners, even the president of the United States, making it hard to get around. So here comes President Obama to New York City for not one, not two, but three fund-raisers in New York City the same night of the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree lighting.

It was supposed to be the traffic jam of the decade except for the record, a reporter from the New York daily news said he made it 34 blocks in 20 minutes in a taxi while the president was in town. No joke. And he was going to the Christmas tree lighting. So there. Still, it couldn't have been great.

BALDWIN: He was the anomaly.

JOHNS: I would think so. Donald Trump of course slammed the president for being inconsiderate and arrogant, which, by the way, are words that have been used to describe Donald Trump, but that is another story. Trump has been a long and harsh critic of the president and even considered running as a Republican for president. So there you go, a kickoff of both the election season and the Christmas season. BALDWIN: And while the Rockefeller tree was lit, the 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue home looking lovely as well for the holidays, decked to the nines.

JOHNS: These pictures are just incredible, aren't they? Every year at Christmas the White House has a Christmas theme. This year's thing is shine, give and share. The center piece of course is the White House Christmas tree. It's in the blue room. It has cards written by children of U.S. service members, has medals, badges, patches from all the branches of the service.

And the Christmas tree ornaments even honor fallen members of the U.S. military. And taking a closer look at some of the pictures we've seen of how the White House is decked out, one of the things that really caught my eye, a white chocolate replica of the White House in the state dining room. Yes, right? You wonder who gets to keep that after the holidays. It could be a pretty tasty treat.

They've also got a little statue of Bo, the first dog, made of buttons. Bo appears to be very popular in the decorations this year. We have some pictures of some cookies that are supposed to look like Bo, but I have to say they look more like the reindeer cookies without the antlers.

BALDWIN: We just saw the picture part of the White House, so there you go Joe Johns with Political Pop. Joe, thank you very much.

And let's stay in Washington and go to Wolf. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts now.