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District Attorney Will Not File Charges Against Syracuse Ex- Coach Bernie Fine; Sentencing Day for Rod Blagojevich; Syrian President Denies Ordering Bloody Crackdown on the Syrian People; U.S. Push For Gay Rights Worldwide

Aired December 07, 2011 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

Want to get you up to speed.

A new development in the sex abuse investigation at Syracuse University. The district attorney says he cannot file charges against Bernie Fine, the fired Syracuse assistant basketball coach.

D.A. Bill Fitzpatrick says that the alleged child molestation happened so long ago, that the statute of limitations has expired. Fitzgerald does say that the allegations by two former ball boys Bobby Davis and Mike Lang are credible. A third man has come forward and claims that Fine abused him back in 2002, and that case remains under investigation.

I want to bring in our Gary Tuchman. He was at the news conference that was held by the D.A. in Syracuse. He is joining us live by phone.

Gary, explain to us what happens next.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, with the district attorney's office here in Onondaga County, New York, nothing, unless another accuser comes forward. But it's very significant to note that the district attorney, Bill Fitzpatrick, says he totally believes the stories of Bobby Davis and Mike Lang, the first two accusers -- they're stepbrothers -- and he says, "There is no doubt criminal charges would have been filed against Bernie Fine and we would have asked the grand jury to indict if the statute of limitations hadn't expired."

And referring to Bobby Davis, a person who has been talking about allegation since 2002, he said, "Bobby, I'm sorry it took so long." And regarding his stepbrother, Mike Lang, who we just interviewed last week, Suzanne, he said, "Mike, you did the right thing in supporting your brother and talking about what happened to you, too."

But he made it very clear that as of this point, unless another credible accuser comes forward who alleges molestation within the last five years, there is nothing his bosses (ph) can do. And he did talk about two other people who have come forward. One of them we've heard about. His name is Zach Tomaselli. He says at this point, Zach Tomaselli's claims lack credibility. He says there is some information that contradicts what Zach Tomaselli has said.

And then there's another person who has come forward. This person has been known in legal circles as accuser number four, but he says that accuser number four is serving a life sentence right now in prison, and what he says also lacks credibility. And the D.A. says there is no accuser number four.

So, right now, no one else has come forward who they deem credible, but it's very important to stress that Bobby Davis and Mike Lang's allegations, the D.A.'s office very much believes what they say about what happened to them with this former associate coach at Syracuse, Bernie Fine -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And Gary, let's remind viewers, because you talked to Mike Lang just last week. Let's remind viewers of what Fine is actually being alleged of doing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: So where did he touch you?

MIKE LANG, ALLEGES SEXUAL BY BERNIE FINE: On my leg and my --

TUCHMAN: And did you say something to him?

LANG: Yes. I said, "Bernie, please stop this, because I'm not that kind and I won't tolerate it. If you don't want me to come over here no more, I won't come over here, but if you keep doing it, I'm not going to come over here."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Gary, what happens next? Can they file civil charges? Does Fine walk away from all of this mess?

TUCHMAN: What these men can do -- what any of these people can do, any of these four people can do, is file civil charges. There is no question about that.

Bobby Davis and Mike Lang will make that decision to file a civil suit. They will certainly have the backing of the district attorney's office, which will help in that suit.

But as far as them doing that, they haven't announced they're going to do that. And as far as criminal charges, there is nothing that can be done right now.

There's a statute of limitations put in place for a reason. It exists. And there's no criminal charges that will be filed against Bernie Fine in this case.

But I think what's also notable, Suzanne, is we have all heard Laurie Fine, his wife, on this audiotape, this audiotape that's described by the district attorney as devastating. He says if he knew about it in 2002, when it was taped, things would have been a lot different. He didn't know about it until two weeks ago.

The newspaper here in Syracuse knew about it. As a matter of fact, they say they had advanced knowledge that this tape was -- that Bobby Davis was going to do this tape. But what the district attorney says is, because of the statute of limitations, there is nothing they could have done with Laurie Fine, but if it wasn't for the statute of limitations, she would be investigated for endangering the welfare of a child, because he said it appeared that she knew about what was happening.

So, it's a horrible indictment as far as a moral indictment of Bernie and Laurie Fine, but as far as any criminal indictment, that ain't going to happen right now.

MALVEAUX: A very dramatic turn, a twist there in that case.

Gary Tuchman, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

On to another case. A 19-year-old man says that Jerry Sandusky gave him whiskey when he was 12 and sexually abused him.

Now, Sandusky's later accuser claims it happened once inside an office at the Penn State football building. The man says he was a member of The Second Mile. You know that was Sandusky's charity for disadvantaged kids.

Well, CNN contributor Sara Ganim, she broke this story, and I just spoke with her the last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA GANIM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: All of the ones that we heard about up until this point had to do with the showers and the locker room. This one involves an office, and we're not sure which office it was, who it belonged it. Jerry Sandusky did have an office on campus. It was something given to him as part of his retirement plan, but it's not clear where that was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Sandusky's preliminary hearing is scheduled for Tuesday now. Now, his attorney says, "We will, for the very first time, have the opportunity to face Jerry's accusers and question them under oath."

Rod Blagojevich, he is in federal court right now in Chicago to learn his fate. Now, the former Illinois governor, he was thrown out of office, convicted of corruption, you may recall. Prosecutors want him to get at least 15 years in prison, among other things. A jury found Blagojevich tried to sell the Senate seat left open by Barack Obama when he was elected president.

Well, more now from our legal contributor Sunny Hostin in just a moment. Newt Gingrich on the rise, no less than a month to go before the Iowa caucuses. Now, there is a new Gallup poll that shows the former House Speaker now has a double-digit lead over all his rivals, including Mitt Romney. Thirty-seven percent now of Republicans across the country, they say that Gingrich is their guy.

Federal Aviation Administrator Randy Babbitt has resigned. It was just days after being arrested on drunk driving charges. And police say in Fairfax City, Virginia, he was arrested on Saturday night after they allegedly saw him driving on the wrong side of the road. In a statement, Babbitt called his time at the FAA "the highlight of my professional career."

Back to Rod Blagojevich and his case.

He is now in front of a federal judge to learn about his prison sentence. The most notorious charge, trying to sell the U.S. Senate seat left open by President Obama.

Sunny Hostin, she's a legal contributor for "In Session" on truTV.

And Sunny, very good to see you here. We're following this very closely.

Unfortunately, no cameras inside the federal courtroom, so we don't know exactly what is happening. Based on your time, however, as a federal prosecutor, what do you think is going on?

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION," TRUTV: Well, it's certainly judgment day for Rod Blagojevich. Right?

And I think what's probably going on right now is the government is again asking for a significant amount of prison time. My understanding is that they want about 15 to 20 years, and they have made that very clear.

It's also his turn and his opportunity to go in front of the court, express his feelings about the crime, hopefully admit the crime, express some remorse about it, and ask for some mercy from this court. He is expected to say something to the judge. And the judge has made it very clear that he is considering a very stiff jail sentence for Rod Blagojevich, so it would be -- he is likely being counseled to say something to this judge today.

MALVEAUX: And Sunny, so we know prosecutors, they want anywhere from 15 to 20 years, and his attorneys say four years. How much leeway does he have?

HOSTIN: Well, you know, the judge, it's completely up to the judge's discretion. Of course the judge can follow the sentencing guidelines, but they are just that, guidelines, at this point. And so he could give Blagojevich probation or he could give him 15 to 20 years.

By all accounts, this is a stiff sentencing judge, Suzanne, and it is quite possible that he is going to give him a lengthy prison term, because he wants, in my view, to send a message to other politicians that you just don't do this kind of thing. This has been a very high- profile case. We know there is a lengthy history of corruption in Chicago. And so my guess is that he is likely to get a pretty stiff sentence.

MALVEAUX: Yes, throw the book at him there.

A lot of people have made a deal about the fact that Blagojevich, he has not apologized for anything. Does that factor into the sentencing here?

HOSTIN: It does, and I think that is really significant. Not only was he the governor, he's also an attorney. And judges just don't like attorneys who don't follow the letter of the law.

And so the fact that he hasn't really expressed remorse is not helpful to him at all. And the judge, his comments, I think, yesterday, were pretty clear that the judge believes he committed these crimes and that it's absurd for him not to express some sort of remorse. I hope today we will hear some statement from Blagojevich acknowledging these crimes and expressing some remorse.

MALVEAUX: Yes. And Sunny, we know he certainly is a colorful character.

HOSTIN: Yes, he is.

MALVEAUX: You know, this is somebody who, you see him jogging in the snow wearing shorts, he's on David Letterman poking fun at himself. He's an apprentice fired by Donald Trump.

There are a lot of people who -- I guess they want to see him go behind bars, but not for a really long time. They're fascinated by this guy. Does that make any difference at all?

HOSTIN: I don't think it's going to make any difference to this judge. I think it actually could hurt him, because he has poked fun at himself.

He has appeared on "The Apprentice." He has done the David Letterman show. I can't imagine that the judge is going to take his popularity and his charm into consideration. I suspect he's going to get a pretty lengthy prison term.

MALVEAUX: All right. Sunny Hostin, thank you so much.

HOSTIN: Thanks,

MALVEAUX: Here's a rundown on some of the stories that we are working on.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad now admitting that there has been a crackdown on protesters in his country, but he says it's not really as bad as activists and journalists claim. So we're going to take a closer look at what he thinks in an interview with "The New York Times" Beirut bureau chief.

And the U.S. government is out with the message for the rest of the world. It says that gay rights are human rights.

And Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich now surging in the polls, and now he is facing some pretty tough questions. We're going to listen as he gets grilled by radio host Glenn Beck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: All right. So President Obama, he's making a big push for the middle class on the campaign trail right now, but is his new message even going to make a difference to voters?

Well, Carol Costello, she's joining us from New York with today's "Talk Back" question.

And Carol, "Yes, we can," we can't. What's he saying?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me tell you.

Occupy Wall Street has given birth to Obama 2012. "Yes, we can" has morphed into "Income inequality and what's fair."

This is the president in Kansas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fewer and fewer of the folks who contributed to the success of our economy actually benefited from that success. Those at the very top grew wealthier from their incomes and their investments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Many analysts say expect to hear Mr. Obama say that a lot in 2012. And while most analysts say the president's speech echoed Teddy Roosevelt's, it also echoed Occupy Wall Street. And why not? If anger over income inequality can draw thousands of Americans to protest across the country, why wouldn't President Obama Occupy their message?

That said, income inequality is real in America. And many Americans feel the middle class is disappearing. But how to bridge the gap?

President Obama suggests in part making the rich pay their fair share. Republicans call that class warfare and a knockout punch to those who create jobs.

So the "Talk Back" question for you: Can Mr. Obama win by attacking the rich?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your comments later this hour.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you, Carol.

After nine months of bloody crackdowns against protesters in Syria, Syria's president is now denying he ever ordered any of it. In fact, Bashar al-Assad claims the opposite, that the country's police and security forces have taken the brunt of the casualties.

Hear what he told ABC's Barbara Walters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASHAR AL-ASSAD, SYRIAN PRESIDENT: There was no command to kill or be brutal.

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC: People went from houses to houses. Children were arrested. I saw those pictures.

AL-ASSAD: To be frank (INAUDIBLE), how do you know? We have to see. We don't see this, so it cannot depend on what you hear --

(CROSSTALK)

WALTERS: But I saw reporters who brought back pictures.

AL-ASSAD: Yes. But how do you verify those pictures?

That's why we are talking about false allegations and distortion of reality. We don't kill our people. Nobody kill -- no government in the world kills its people unless it's led by a crazy person.

For me, as president, I became president because of public support. It's impossible for anyone in this state to be ordered to kill.

WALTERS: Do you feel guilty?

AL-ASSAD: I did my best to protect the people, so you cannot feel guilty when you do your best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Well, the U.N. estimates that more than 4,000 people have been killed in the uprisings inspired by the Arab Spring. Both the Arab League and Turkey have also sanctioned Syria.

So, what do we make of this? Is he crazy? Is he lying? Is he playing with semantics?

Joining us to talk about the mind of Assad is "New York Times" Beirut bureau chief Anthony Shadid.

And thank you very much for joining us.

We know that you've been reporting on the Middle East for 15 years. You were held captive in Libya for six days. You know what is behind the mind and the thinking of authoritative governments.

And what do we think of Bashar al-Assad? Is he delusional?

ANTHONY SHADID, BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, I think it's remarkable how much what we heard from President Assad reflects what the government has been saying since the start of this uprising in mid-March. It's a lot about false allegations, distortions of reality, and a country facing an uprising of militant Islamists. It really (INAUDIBLE) line that they've been preaching from the very beginning.

It's a question whether President Assad himself believes what he is saying. And I think there's a strong argument to be made that the leadership, President Assad included, still believe they have the support of the majority in Syria. That's becoming less clear as this revolt goes on, but I think there is still a very insular type of thinking.

President Assad is listening to his advisers. There's a sense that they can wait this out, that they can get through this, and that at the end of the day, however unlikely that may prove to be, they will still be in power.

MALVEAUX: So we know that the State Department says pretty much the same thing, that it's a shell game, he is playing out for time. How long does he have, however, to hold out until he becomes a weakened leader?

SHADID: You have predictions all over the place. It depends on who you talk to on any given day. Some people say a year and a half, some people say two years. I heard recently from an American official the idea of six months.

I think the notion out there right now is that the economy and the devastation that the sanctions, that the isolation has dealt to the economy is going to be the biggest threat facing President Assad. The economy is crumbling, the Syrian pound is losing value, companies are shutting doors, firing workers. Tourism, which was a mainstay of the economy, is falling apart, and oil exports have ground to a halt.

So, I think when you look at the array of challenges, of threats facing President Assad right now, the economy is probably at the forefront.

MALVEAUX: What do you think of the U.S. role here? We know that the U.S. ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford, is now returning to Syria. He was pulled from the country six weeks for threat to his safety, but this does seem to be an indication that Obama's administration seems to be able to at least be offering to work with the Syrian government in some way.

SHADID: I think the Syrian government probably sees it very much in that sense, that the Americans and the French ambassador, as you said, also return, that they want to keep a channel open to the government. I'm not sure that's necessarily the case.

I think there is a desire to have some kind of representation on the ground, to have a presence in Syria as they go through this transition, whatever shape that transition is going to take. But I think you are exactly right to point out that the government itself is probably going to read this as a desire on the part of the West to keep open a channel.

MALVEAUX: The fact that you have got sanctions from the West, the Arab League, and they still haven't convinced Assad to step down, you have got the one-time ally, Turkey, calling for Assad to resign, none of this has apparently worked. What do you think it's going to take to actually get rid of this guy?

SHADID: Well, it's an interesting question.

I mean, I think, as you pointed out, they are facing -- the isolation that Syria is in right now is perhaps unprecedented in the four decades that the Assad family has ruled Syria. But I thought there was a very telling quoting in the interview with ABC where President Assad says basically that it's a game you play, it doesn't necessarily mean you believe it.

And I think there are critics out there that believe that the Syrian government still is playing a game, that it can navigate a region it has a lot of experience in and try to play it to its advantage. That game is becoming increasingly bloody, increasingly dangerous. And I think if there's one axiom out there, it's that the longer the government stays in power, the less likely Syria, as a country, has a chance to emerge from this ordeal with a semblance of peace, with a semblance of stability. The country is being pulled apart, and that is becoming increasingly clear in cities like Homs and parts of the region on the borders of Syria right now.

MALVEAUX: We're going to be watching it very closely.

Anthony Shadid, thank you so much.

Well, it's the downside of being at the top of the polls. The questions are getting tougher, the digs getting deeper. Now Newt Gingrich has been getting grilled by fellow conservatives, including Glenn Beck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: All right. So this would have been hard to imagine even a month ago, but right now Newt Gingrich poised to run away with the Republican nomination just four weeks until the Iowa caucuses. There is a new Gallup poll that shows the former House Speaker with a double-digit lead over all his rivals, including Mitt Romney. Thirty- seven percent of Republicans across the country, now behind Gingrich.

But, like any leading candidate, the moment you pull ahead, the grilling begins, even within your own party.

Jim Acosta reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The individual mandate --

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On his radio show, Glenn Beck turned up the Tea Party heat on Newt Gingrich, rubbing the former Speaker's nose in his own past support for a health care individual mandate. The mandate that requires Americans to buy medical insurance is both a key component in the new health care law and poison for many conservatives.

BECK: Here is May, 2011.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We ought to have some requirement. You either have health insurance or you post a bond, or in some way you indicate you're going to be held accountable.

BECK: You seem to be very interested in the government finding the solution.

GINGRICH: Well, let's go back to what I just said. Go back and listen to exactly what I was asked on that show, and what I said I will stand by.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Support for an individual mandate? Folks, don't ask me to explain this.

ACOSTA: Conservative outrage over Gingrich's position on health care is now featured in a new TV ad from rival Ron Paul. It's a test for the new GOP front-runner, who once posted a video on his YouTube page declaring his opposition to a mandate.

GINGRICH: I am completely opposed to the Obamacare mandate on individuals. I fought it for two-and-a-half years at the Center for Health Transformation.

ACOSTA: But on the Web site for Gingrich's Center for Health Transformation, the group advocates a requirement that anyone who earns more than $50,000 a year must purchase health insurance or post a bond.

Gingrich's past support for an individual mandate could be a bitter pill to swallow in the Tea Party. Right now he has 82 percent of Tea Part support, far ahead of Romney, whose own health care mandate in Massachusetts is a major turnoff for voters in Iowa.

A new "Washington Post" poll finds that 45 percent of Republican caucus-goers in Iowa say it's a reason to oppose Romney.

IGOR VOLSKY, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: And at the end of the day, they're going to find that he changes his positions much in the same way as Romney.

ACOSTA: Beck also pressed Gingrich on his now infamous ad with Nancy Pelosi on the need to combat climate change.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: We don't always see eye to eye, do we, Newt?

GINGRICH: No, but we do agree our country must take action to address climate change.

BECK: Do you still believe in the -- you know, "The Inconvenient Truth," as outlined by global climate change advocates?

GINGRICH: Well, I never believed in Al Gore's fantasies. ACOSTA: The problem for Gingrich, he did the ad for Al Gore's Alliance for Climate Protection. Gingrich now calls the spot one of his dumbest mistakes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: All right. So Jim is joining us live from Washington.

Tell us what this means for Mitt Romney. I mean, it was just a couple weeks ago that he was the front-runner guy.

ACOSTA: That's right. That means Mitt Romney is going to have to get more aggressive.

And it's interesting, Suzanne. The Romney campaign just put out a new ad today that touts Governor Romney's 42-year marriage. That is something that Romney also mentioned in his speech this morning at the Republican Jewish Coalition here in Washington.

So, there is a not-so-subtle message coming out of the Romney campaign highlighting his very long marriage, in obvious contrast to people who are really looking at this carefully, to Gingrich's multiple marriages in his past. So, that is something that Romney is going to be doing, I guess, in the coming days. And we're going to see more of it.

MALVEAUX: I'm assuming, too, at least for the White House, that the president is going to want to set up his on contrasts and talk about some of the differences between Newt Gingrich. And now they're kind of facing this new Newt.

Do we know anything about the strategy?

ACOSTA: You know, so far, the DNC and the Obama reelection campaign have only focused on Mitt Romney. It's kind of amazing, because at this point, if you look at the poll numbers -- and you just read them a few moments ago, Suzanne -- you can envision a scenario where Newt Gingrich wins this nomination, as stunning as that may sound to a lot of people who didn't anticipate this happening.

But Mitt Romney is still the person that they think over at the White House and at the Obama reelection campaign is going win this nomination. So, team Obama still has their eyes fixed on Mitt Romney.

MALVEAUX: OK. Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it.

ACOSTA: You bet.

MALVEAUX: So, CNN has the best political coverage on TV. You've got to stay with us all day for these interviews. There is no reason to change the channel.

You've got Congressman Ron Paul, who is going to be in the CNN NEWSROOM at 3:00 Eastern. You've got Newt Gingrich, Texas Governor Rick Perry. They're going to join Wolf in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, she's going to be John King's guest at 7:00. And then there is the reality TV star, real estate mogul, and now debate moderator, Donald Trump. He's going to join our own Piers Morgan. And that is at 9:00 Eastern.

So, the U.S. is making a major diplomatic push for gay rights around the world. But does the Obama administration's plan really have teeth? Find out what it can and cannot do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: We have more on the Rob Blagojevich case. The court is in a break right now. Blagojevich is in front of a federal judge to learn his prison sentence. The most notorious charge, he tried to sell the senate seat left open by President Obama.

CNN's Ted Rowlands, he is in the courtroom. He joins us by phone. What did he say? What did Blagojevich say in his defense?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Suzanne, it was a very dramatic morning here. First the prosecution faced the judge and said that the people have had enough here. They have had it with the defendant. They have had it with corruption in Illinois.

They urged the judge to give a firm sentence. Then we listened to Rob Blagojevich say what he did in a very calm voice was basically for the first time admitting guilt. He said my life is in ruins, my career is over. My house, we're trying to sell it.

I have nobody to blame, but myself and my stupidity. He apologized formally to the judge, to the prosecutors, to the state of Illinois, the people of Illinois, and then to his family including his young daughters.

Right now, we have about 5 minutes left in the break and we anticipate when the judge takes the stand, he will deliver the sentence to the former governor of Illinois. The prosecution has asked for 15 to 20 years. Blagojevich's lawyers have asked for three years.

MALVEUAX: Ted, what's the significance of this fact? I mean, this is the first time that he has apologized. How did people respond and react in the room?

ROWLANDS: Well, the courtroom was jam packed and dead silent, listening intently to every word that Blagojevich was saying. He was speaking uncharacteristically in a low, slow tone throughout his discussion with the judge.

The judge had warned him he would be asking questions. He ended up not asking any questions. Blagojevich finished and said do you have questions? He said no, Governor, thank you.

But in reaction, I think everybody was struck by what seemed to be a sincere opening up of a shamed governor who has been through and his family has obviously been through a lot, his last chance at trying to convince this judge for leniency. MALVEAUX: Ted, what happens next here? How much time before the governor should know his fate?

ROWLANDS: We should know in about 5 to 10 minutes when court convenes. The judge has gone into chambers and taken a small break. When the courtroom reconvenes and the judge takes the bench, we anticipate he will deliver a sentence.

Whether he has a speech of some sort before he actually gives the sentence, we don't know. But it's safe to say within the half hour, Rob Blagojevich will know his fate.

MALVEAUX: Ted, how do people there in Illinois -- how do they see the governor? What do they think of him?

ROWLANDS: Well, quite frankly, people have different opinions as you might imagine. A lot of people really do want this judge to send a message because the governor who preceded Blagojevich is still in jail for corruption charges.

And Blagojevich ran on a platform of ending corruption and ended up in the same fate of his predecessor. There are some want the judge to come down hard on him and others look at him as a lovable goof ball that they have gotten to know and they want this judge more for his family's sake to go easy on him.

MALVEAUX: And Ted, what do we anticipate outside, is there anybody who's outside of the courtroom? Is there a crowd that has gathered? Can you set the scene for us a little bit?

ROWLANDS: Yes, it's federal court. So obviously, there's no cameras allowed inside the building here, but the public is more than welcome to come up. They have gone into the ceremonial courtroom, which seats a couple hundred people and it is packed.

There are people that have not gotten in that are standing in the hallway here on the 25th floor. They are hoping to get a seat here when court convenes, but there will be people in the hallway and people in the courtroom.

And they have also established an overflow room where the audio from inside the courtroom is broadcast for those who could not get into the courtroom.

MALVEAUX: Ted, we are going to take a quick break and come right back to you on this breaking news story. Obviously, everybody awaiting the sentence of the former Illinois governor, Rob Blagojevich.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: The Obama administration tells the world that gay rights are human rights in a passionate speech at the Human Right Council in Geneva. Yesterday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton vowed to take action against countries that criminalize gay conduct, abuse the gay community or ignore abuse against them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Like being a woman, like being a racial, religious, tribal or ethnic minority, being LGBT does not make you less human. And that is why gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Secretary Clinton did explain how they give the initiative teeth. National Security Council spokesman did tell the "New York Times," the administration was not cutting or tying foreign aid to changes in the country's practices.

So why take such a strong stance? Well, people's lives are at stake in places like Iran, being gay is punishable by death. If you remember during the visit to the U.S. in 2007, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad denied that there were any gays in his country.

In Uganda, parliament has reopened debate on the issue. There is possibility that penalty could be death there as well. In Afghanistan and Pakistan, gay activity is criminalized, but it is rarely prosecuted in Pakistan.

I want to get a break down of this directive and what it actually means. Our senior State Department producer, Elise Labott, she's joining us from Geneva, Switzerland.

Elise, tell us first of all, what does this White House directive actually do? What does it accomplish?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT PRODUCER: Well, basically, Suzanne, what it does is it makes gay rights a real part of U.S. foreign policy and the human rights agenda and what President Obama said in this directive is he wants to use U.S. aid to promote gay rights.

What does that mean? That could mean funding lawyers who are defending gays in these countries where it's a criminal act or see it is trying to report NGOs reporting on abuses against gays. It is also saying that U.S. foreign policy, while you won't make any decisions based solely on gay rights.

That gay rights is part of the human rights agenda and that will be treated as a factor when determining foreign aid. It also really kind of heightens awareness of gay rights worldwide and shows support for the people you just mentioned in these countries.

Gay people who are facing criminality and also abuse and not only in countries where it's criminal, but sometimes they are just tolerating abuse against them.

MALVEAUX: Elise, what does this directive not do?

LABOTT: Well, basically what it can't do, Suzanne, is it can't change laws. In these countries where it's criminal, where there is not persecution for people who abuse gay people, it can't change the law or force a country to create a law.

It also doesn't stop the abuse. The U.S. can't make a directive to stop gay abuse around the world. It can't change minds. What Secretary Clinton said yesterday is that she knows that in a lot of these countries, countries use religious beliefs and cultural traditions to say we do not believe in homosexuality.

And therefore we can't tolerate it. But what she is hoping, as she said in those comments, like women's rights and like racial equality. She is hoping if she keeps introducing it, it will help overtime change minds about thinking about gay people.

MALVEAUX: Real quick here, Elise, the secretary made these unprecedented comments supporting gay rights and threatened pulling U.S. funding to countries that abuse gays in front of an audience that included diplomats from some Arab and African and other countries that punish gays and even put them to death. What has been the response to her remarks?

LABOTT: Well, from the gay community, we have seen comments really thanking the U.S. for leadership and saying this is a real step forward, the strongest defense ever in terms of gay rights.

Secretary Clinton got a standing ovation in the hall. Nobody walked out. Her aides said that they didn't think they changed any minds yesterday. She thinks that if she still continues to talk about it, eventually people will start looking at it in a different way.

So this is really the opening of a conversation. The secretary is saying she hopes we can continue to keep talking about it.

MALVEAUX: All right, Elise Labott traveling with the secretary. Thank you so much. Human rights groups as Elise mentioned applauding the Obama administration's push for gay rights around the world.

But is this initiative really going to hold? Boris Dittrich of Human Right Watch joins us from New York. What do you think of this directive here? Do you think it goes far enough?

BORIS DITTRICH, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: I think it is very historic. Really a very landmark memorandum and also speech by Hillary Clinton. We have been waiting for this so the U.S. government really shows leadership now. But what we really want to see is that they team up together with other countries in the global south, for instance, a country like South Africa, which has shown leadership at the United Nations by putting forward a resolution asking for ending violence and discrimination of gay people and transgendered people.

MALVEAUX: Are you concerned at all with the State Department potentially threatening countries for their treatment or mistreatment of gays, that this will have a backlash against the gay community in places in Africa and the Middle East?

DITTRICH: You know, the first press media coverage was aide conditionality like the United States was supposed to propose that they would cut budgets. Therefore, that could be really causing a backlash against gay people.

Because if a country would get less aid than other groups this is because of the gays and that's why it could cause a backlash, but fortunately, this was not part of the speech of Secretary of State Clinton.

Actually she and in the memorandum called for organized a global LGBT fund, $3 million U.S. dollars is in it. It's a private/public partnership. And I think that's very important because then U.S. embassies abroad can support LGBT groups who really want to fight discrimination in their own country.

MALVEAUX: And, Boris, real quick here. You're from the Netherlands. Your country has been protecting the gay community rights using international pull with other countries for years now. How does the U.S. compare in its position here?

DITTRICH: Well, I guess the U.S. was also inspired by what is happening in Europe. For instance, secretary of state announced a tool kit for American embassies aboard while this has been introduced in Europe last year. So I think it's very good that the U.S. is now taking this leadership role together with other countries.

But so much needs to be done. There are so many human rights abuses against gay people all over the world. For instance, in Russia, a new law was proposed and actually, if you would wear a t-shirt with a gay friendly logo, you could be fined in St. Petersburg region in Russia. In, for instance, a country like Uganda, a anti-homosexuality bill has been introduced in parliament and, for instance, if your son is gay or your daughter is lesbian, you need to report that to the police. And if you don't, you end up in prison. So there are a lot of countries where we really need to put pressure on that they would decriminalize, would treat LGBT people in a decent manner.

MALVEAUX: All right. Boris Dittrich, thank you so much. Appreciate your perspective.

President Obama now talking tough on the campaign trail when it comes to the growing income gap. But can he win by attacking the rich? We're letting you join the conversation in "Talk Back" up next.

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MALVEAUX: Word from Chicago. We expect a federal judge to sentence former Illinois Governor Rob Blagojevich any time now. Blagojevich apologized today for his crimes when he spoke before the court. A jury convicted him last June, you may recall, of corruption, including wire fraud and attempted extortion. And the most notorious charge dealt with his attempt to sell the Senate seat held by President Obama.

All right. 'Tis the season to spend. But there's a lot of ways to do it without getting stuck in a deep financial funk. Christine Romans explains in this edition of "Smart Is The New Rich."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The debt danger signs are flashing everywhere, in Europe, in Washington and in our own bank accounts, where incomes are falling and Americans are dipping into savings to pay the bills. Yet everywhere you're being encouraged to spend money, lots of money, for the holidays. The National Retail Federation says you'll spend probably $704. But where is all that money coming from and have we learned nothing?

RICK NEWMAN, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": You see these numbers about how much money people are spending for the holidays and it reminds you back when people suddenly had expensive cars in their driveway, boats, fancy vacations. You wonder like, how are they affording all this? And we seem to be back into that situation. I mean the fundamental situation here is that real income, after inflation, has been flat for the last year or maybe even down a tiny little bit.

ROMANS: That means you have to be very careful about putting new debt on your credit cards. People say they want to be good spenders. Forty- two percent plan to spend less this year than last. That's according to a new bankrate.com poll. But the road to debt is paved with good holiday intentions.

LYNNETTE KHALFANI-COX, FOUNDER, ASKTHEMONEYCOACH.COM: There's been a lot of data to show that there's a disconnect between what people say they're going to do and what they actually do. Even when people say, I intend to pay off my credit card balances, for instance, they typically don't pay them off. That's why we've got about 15 million people right now in 2011 who haven't paid off their holiday shopping bills from 2010.

ROMANS: Don't be that person. A few smart things to consider before you spend a dime. If you can't afford it, put it down. Really think about your purchase and whether you need it. How do you know whether you need it? Make a budget. It sounds so simple, but make a budget and make a list. Think about what you want to buy and why and stick to it. You are smarter than the retail tricks. Stay to the list.

Also, use technology. Comparison shop online. Use coupon codes when you can. And never buy into this hype that these are the lowest prices you'll see all season. There are always lower prices and more sales ahead.

And take a time out. If you see something not on your list you want to buy, wait 48 hours and go back later. You would be surprised how often the urge fades with time.

And let's say your little cost center, your little kid's crying for that sold out LeapPad on the hottest toys list. A little advice from toy expert Jim Silver (ph). Shop in person on Fridays from 5:00 to 7:0 p.m. at the toy store. That's when toy stores restock for the weekend. That's when you have the best chance of finding that hot toy that no one else can.

For this week's "Smart Is The New Rich," I'm Christine Romans in New York.

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MALVEAUX: Today is the 70th anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. You're looking at live pictures now from Hawaii, where a commemoration ceremony is taking place. That fly-over in missing man formation taking place right now. Thousands of people are at this event. Some of them are survivors of the attack. It is estimated about 8,000 survivors are still alive. The attack on Pearl Harbor opened the door for the U.S. to enter World War II.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Superintendent Depree (ph), we have just observed the moment 70 years ago when the attack took place. It was at --

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MALVEAUX: We're getting a lot of responses to today's "Talk Back" question. Can President Obama win by attacking the rich? Carol Costello is in New York.

So, Carol, what are folks saying?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, well, let me tell you. This from Mike. "Without a doubt he can win on an inequality platform. Middle class America has watched the cost of living continually rise, and yet our salaries and wages don't. It's time for the pie to get divided in a fair fashion."

This from Paul. "I don't believe isolating the rich specifically is a good tactic, but it may help garner votes. I think it's negative and divisive in the end. Promoting the middle class, the end of the Bush tax cuts and closing tax loopholes would be a better way to pitch it."

This from Jeffrey. "If I were rich and there were loopholes in the tax laws that would benefit me, I would be foolish not to use them. Don't blame the rich, blame those who created the loopholes and those without the guts to close them."

And this from Yencuba (ph). "No he can't win by attacking any particular group, rich or poor, but he can win by telling the truth."

Facebook.com/carolcnn. Please keep the conversation going. And thanks, as always, for your comments.

MALVEAUX: All right, thank you, Carol.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Randi Kaye.

Hey, Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Suzanne. Thank you very much.