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Laws or Quality To Blame For Failing Schools?; Mike McQueary's Culpability; Last Debate Before Iowa; Veteran Crisis Line Helps Veterans In Need
Aired December 16, 2011 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. I'm Don Lemon, Randi's off.
Let's get you caught up right now. In open court for the very first time, the prosecution's star witness in the child molestation case against Jerry Sandusky has told what he saw in a Penn State locker room in March of 2002, and he's told it in horrifying detail, there is a warning here. But Mike McQueary, who's now an assistant Penn State football coach, wasn't testifying against Sandusky. This is a preliminary hearing for the Penn State officials charged with perjury and failing to report the alleged child sex abuse that McQueary reported to them. McQueary's off the stand but the hearing continues and we'll talk more about it in our "Crime And Consequences" segment 20 minutes from now, right here on CNN.
The clock is still ticking towards a midnight deadline to avert a partial government shutdown but the pressure's gone down just a little bit. According to him, it looks like a lot, right? That's John Boehner's way of saying both parties in both Houses have agreed on a trillion dollar spending package, now they just have to vote on it. The House will vote first, then start its holiday recess. The Senate will vote after that and will try to agree on extending a payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits. If it does, the House will come back to vote on that. Stay tuned.
Ballistics and fingerprint analysis now links Oscar Ortega Hernandez to the rifle used to fire bullets at the White House last month, that's according to new court filings. The 21-year-old from Idaho is being charged with attempting to assassinate the president. Ortega is in Washington today for a hearing on whether he should undergo more mental testing to determine if he is competent to stand trial. So far, he has been interviewed for 50 minutes by a psychologist who said he is competent. If convicted, Ortega faces a maximum sentence of life in prison.
The Senate has approved a giant defense bill and sent it to the president to sign. The legislation includes a controversial national security waiver that allows the president to transfer a detainee from a military prison, like Guantanamo Bay, to civilian custody if he chooses. The $662 billion measure also includes tough sanctions against the Iranian Central Bank over the country's nuclear program.
Google took another step towards cars that drive themselves. For more than a year, the company's been testing the cars on the streets of California and now they've been awarded a U.S. patent for technology that controls when a car switches from human control to computer control and uses GPS to tell the vehicle precisely where to go. Now, according to "PC Magazine," the technology could even be used as a virtual tour guide of a city. Very interesting.
Today is sentencing day for former baseball great, Barry Bonds, for obstruction of justice. Back in April, Bonds testified before a federal Grand Jury investigating illegal steroid use by athletes. Jurors said he was evasive in his testimony. According to a sentencing memo, federal prosecutors want Bonds to serve 50 months in prison, lawyers for Bonds are asking for probation. The hearing takes place next hour in San Francisco. It's less than two miles from the ballpark where Bonds broke baseball's home run record in 2007.
What is there to say about Christopher Hitchens? The legendary British essayist died today of throat cancer. In Hitchens' magazine pieces, books, lectures and debates, Hitchens spoke for left but embraced the war in Iraq. He rejected religion, attacked Mother Teresa, and denied the existence of God. My colleague Piers Morgan says he was a literary provocateur. The actor Stephen Frye says Hitchens was envied, feared, adored, reviled, and loved but never ignored. Christopher Hitchens, 62 years old.
In the same week that Rick Perry vows to end what he calls President Obama he attack on religion, his home state approves this license plate. Why it has some people praying for change. That is just ahead.
But first, a Utah woman was critically injured in an accident that left her legs pinned under a commuter bus. West Valley city police officer, Kevin Peck, saw her, he initially called under the bus to check her pulse, but ended up holding her hand until rescue units arrived to free her. A fellow officer captured the moment. Officer Peck stayed behind to keep the woman calm. She has since been upgraded to stable condition and for your bravery and compassion, officer Peck, are you today's "Rock Star."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: If you want the car behind you to know where you went to college or whether you're a veteran or a bird lover, you can get a bumper sticker or you can pay your state a few extra bucks and get a specialty license plate. I know you've seen them. Here's just a few possibilities from a state that we picked at random, this is Washington.
But our "Facetime" story today, it comes from Texas. There, among the 100 plates promoting colleges, causes, even corporations, the DMV has just approved this. The Cavalry Hill plate depicting the site of Jesus' crucifixion and the motto, one state under God. A group called the Texas Freedom Network says the government shouldn't, and I quote, "play favorites with faith." But defenders say freedom began with free expression for Christians and everybody else.
So now, I'm joined by the head of the legislative affairs for the Liberty Institute, his name is Jonathon Saenz, and the president of the Texas Freedom Network, Kathy Miller. Thanks to you both for joining us. Doing OK today?
KATHY MILLER, PRESIDENT, TEXAS FREEDOM NETWORK: Great, thank you.
JONATHAN SAENZ, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, LIBERTY INSTITUTE: Doing great, thank you.
LEMON: All right, let's get this going. So Ms. Miller, your state has a plate that says, God Bless Texas, another one says, One Nation Under God, we have that one, and you even have one that plugs a real estate company. OK, so, what's wrong with the cavalry plate?
MILLER: Well, in this case, we really have a government body at least implying that they're promoting one faith over all others. And frankly, when you want to protect religious freedom, which is what my organization seeks to do, you want to avoid that at all costs. We want folks to be able to freely practice their faith without any interference from, or promotion by, government.
LEMON: So, Mr. Signs, if -- is the Texas DMV playing favorites when it comes to God, as Ms. Miller is saying?
SAENZ: Well Don, first of all, merry Christmas to you. Thanks for having us on. We're based here in the state of Texas and look, this is a very simple issue. The one state under God specialty license plate it's mainstream Texas, it's mainstream America and these plates are nothing new. There are numerous different messages that have come up that people have the private choice. They have the private decision to decide what they want to put on the back of their license plate, in the back of their vehicle.
And so, you know, in this message, that's part of this plate, one state under God, has been widely accepted through our state. It was voted on in the legislature and only one member of our legislature voted against it. It was almost unanimous, Democrats, Republicans. And so, you have wide support for these types of things. And the reason that we saw that we had to get involved in this is because you had groups -- these left wing fringe groups that say they're so-called for freedom, but then they want to ban the private religious free speech of people on the back of their vehicle. If they want to censor these types of messages and say, this is religion --
LEMON: Hang on, hang on, let me jump in here. Hold on, hold on. Let me get in what I want to get in.
SAENZ: (INAUDIBLE.)
LEMON: I'll let you finish, Mr. Saenz, let me finish -- let me get in here. Would you support something that was a license plate that -- from an atheist?
SAENZ: Well, I don't see what would be the difference. We're -- our group doesn't pick and choose who has First Amendment rights and who doesn't. But apparently, Ms. Miller's groups, The Texas Freedom Network as they call themselves, does pick and choose who has First Amendment rights and who doesn't. And so, the law says that you have to be --
MILLER: I absolutely disagree.
SAENZ: -- neutral and so you have a private individual making a decision of what message they want to put on. And what's troubling, is they're now focusing on Christians and their religious free speech. You know, Christians and religious free speech should not be subjected to second class treatment.
LEMON: OK. Go ahead -- go ahead, Ms. Miller.
MILLER: Well, I think that Jonathan is completely mischaracterizing our position on this. I would vehemently support the free speech rights of anyone to proclaim their faith on their bumper, on their car, in any other place they choose. This is not about free speech. It's about free exercise of religion as protected in the First Amendment. Our founding fathers had it right -- government gets out of the way and people freely practice their faith without any interference from government in any capacity. We aren't picking and choosing among faiths, we think everyone deserves the right. Jonathan is talking about a government endorsing faith. I can put a Christian bumper sticker on my car, and I don't need the government to tacitly or explicitly endorse that.
LEMON: Well, what is wrong with what she's saying, Mr. Saenz? It seems -- it seems fairly practical if you -- you can put whatever you want on your car. There's already in God we trust on the money, so then what's the issue?
SAENZ: Well look, there is no issue here. The law and the courts have been very clear that people have the right to do this, that it's not endorsement. You know, this whole issue of endorsement that she keeps bringing up is so interesting. You know, because you look at specialty plates, the state of Texas also has specialty plates for Oklahoma University, for Florida University. You know, I'm a University of Texas graduate. You know, if I really thought or was under the illusion --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But what does that have to do with the cavalry license plate what you are saying? As a matter of fact, when you started this conversation you said to me, merry Christmas, and I'm a Christian, I appreciate that. But I'm also aware enough to know that not everybody in America is Christian and they don't celebrate so -- and sometimes people lump in Christmas -- hang on, let me finish my thought -- Christmas and New Year's together and they say, happy holidays. So, why push that on people when they may not necessarily celebrate even if you are a Christian at heart, then be a Christian at heart and don't push it on other people.
SAENZ: Because religious free speech is what America's all about. And if we reached the point in this country where people are not allowed to have the right to put a message that they choose on the back of their vehicle expressing their religious free speech rights, that's not the America that we want going forward. And that's not what the Constitution stands for and that's not what the courts have said when they interpret this type of First Amendment issue.
And that whole -- my whole example about endorsement is it's ridiculous to say because someone chooses to put a license plate message on the back that you can attach that to the state. That's what I'm talking about when it comes to this football analogy. You know, you have -- you have free speech. It's up to the individual to decide what they want to put on the back of their vehicle.
LEMON: Ms. Miller --
SAENZ: And -- but all of a sudden, just because Christians dare --
MILLER: Right.
SAENZ: -- to express their religious free speech, all of a sudden these left wing groups have a problem.
LEMON: Go ahead, Ms. Miller.
MILLER: Well, first of all, when you wear -- when you put an Oklahoma Sooners bumper sticker on your car, you are not suggesting that we are one state under the Sooner, so that's very different. But --
SAENZ: But you obviously haven't see the --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Please be respectful, she gave you a lot of time to speak. Go ahead and finish up, Ms. Miller.
MILLER: This is the Department of Motor Vehicle. Right now, they have approved one license plate, The Cavalry Hill plates which are clearly Christian plates. We can either open Pandora's box and let an unelected body decide weekly which religion to sponsor or disfavor, which ideology to back or not back, or we can do what the founders intended, get government out of this business, let people express their faith as they freely choose, that's what we're standing for.
Under no circumstances is Jonathan correct in asserting that I would ever stand in the way of a Christian or any other person promoting their faith on their vehicle, that is absolutely untrue. This is about whether the department of motor vehicles can tactically --
LEMON: Finish this off, ma'am.
MILLER: -- or explicitly endorse one faith over the others and the danger's down the road, it might be your faith that they choose not to favor.
LEMON: All right, thank you. That's going to have to be the last word, only for time's sake, because I could this conversation until Christmas comes. Thank you very much. I appreciate both of you joining us here on CNN.
Nearly half of our public schools are failing, many pointing the blame at no child left behind. Former chancellor of D.C. schools Michelle Reese is going to join us live, there she is, right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Nearly half of our public schools are failing. Falling short of federal standards. Forty-eight percent did not hit the No Child Left Behind benchmarks for 2011, compared to 39 percent just a year before in 2010. Education Secretary Arne Duncan says No Child Left Behind is broken, and in September, President Barack Obama repeated his call to reform it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Experience has taught us that in its implementation, No Child Left Behind has some serious flaws that are hurting our children instead of helping them. And in order to avoid having their schools labeled as failures, some states perversely had actually had to lower their standards in a race to the bottom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Michelle Rhee is an educator and former chancellor of D.C. public schools. And when you see these figures -- first, thank you so much for joining us. Good to see you.
MICHELLE RHEE, EDUCATOR & FORMER CHANCELLOR OF D.C. PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Nice to see you as well.
LEMON: When you see these figures, what do you think? What's your reaction?
RHEE: Well, I think that anybody who sees these figures has to have the same reaction, which is that we are having significant problems in this country with our education system. And our schools are consistently facing significant challenges in providing children with the education that they deserve.
LEMON: You know, there's been a lot of criticism because it says No Child Left Behind is really blaming the law and the testing when we should be educating our kids. Is that getting in the way, blaming the law and testing instead of just educating the kids?
RHEE: You know, the problem is that if you look at it -- No Child Left Behind is flawed. Let's be clear about that. I think everyone across the political spectrum agrees that tremendous numbers of modifications need to be made to that law.
But I don't think what we can look at outcomes of the data that's being shared and say, oh, well that's a problem with the law. I mean, if you look at the PISA results, which are an international test that's taken by kids in most of the developed nations across the globe, what that shows is that our kids are 25th out of 34 developed nations in math. That's bad news.
I mean, our kids are not performing up to snuff and we can't say, well we don't like the results of the test or we don't like the results that are being shown, and therefore let's blame the tester, let's blame the law. We instead have to say, you know what? Our schools are not providing our children with what they need. We are not developing a skilled workforce. We're not giving the kids the tools and knowledge we need to be productive members of society.
And so we have to stop blaming the test or blaming the law and instead look at what we're doing in our public schools and try to figure out how we're going to improve them.
LEMON: So, you are talking about the quality of education given to kids in public schools, correct?
RHEE: Absolutely. Our children in this country -- and this is every group of kids -- are simply not competing with our global counterparts.
And so, if you look at the data over the next 20 years, this country is going to have about 123 million high-skill, high-pay jobs. And at the rate that we're going, American kids are only going to be able to fill 50 million of those jobs. The vast majority are going to be sent overseas.
LEMON: I want to ask you this question because there was just a report that I'm sure you saw yesterday. I think it is one in two people in this country live in poverty or below the poverty level. When you look at disparity in the rankings here, I think it's 89 percent in Florida schools failed, and then just 11 percent of Wisconsin schools failed.
Why the disparity here? Is it because of poverty or what's going on?
RHEE: No, the issue is not with poverty. In fact, if you look -- not that poverty doesn't matter. I mean, poverty does have a significant influence on kids and their ability to be ready for school.
But on the other hand if you look, our high-income kids in this country compared to high-income kids in other countries still are not doing well. So, it's not just an issue with poor kids. We're having an issue with our education system across the board in this country. So, you know, we can't see this as an issue just in one place or another.
But to the president's point, there are a lot of perverse incentives right now for states to lower their scores and proficiency rates. So, what we really need something Secretary Duncan is working toward which is a common set of standards and a common assessment. And that way we'll be able to do an apples-to-apples comparison across states and then benchmark ourselves internationally.
LEMON: So, you don't get these disparities from different states. And not to say that kids in Florida are poorer than kids in Wisconsin. Just trying to figure out what's the disconnect here.
Michelle Rhee, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN. We'll see you soon.
RHEE: Absolutely.
LEMON: Penn State's Mike McQueary takes the stand. What he says he actually saw that day in the school's shower. Detailed testimony next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. We've got warning for you before I even get into this story. But I'm going to tell you, just three days after former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky waived his right to a preliminary hearing, today we hear directly from a number of witnesses, including key witness Mike McQueary, who recounted in explicit, disturbing detail Jerry Sandusky allegedly raping a young boy in a locker room shower.
Now, McQueary's explosive testimony took place during the preliminary hearing today for two of Penn State's top ex-officials, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz. Now, both Curley and Schultz are accused of lying to a grand jury and failing to report what they knew. Their charges largely hinge on McQueary and what he really saw, which has come into question after conflicting accounts surfaced.
But today McQueary reinforced about what he told a grand jury earlier about what he witnessed back in 2002. And I have to warn you again details are graphic and they are sexually explicit. So, here they go: McQueary says he was picking up recruiting tapes and saw in a 45- degree mirror image, he saw Jerry Sandusky in the shower with a boy. That's what he says, quote, "in the shower with a boy." He checked again, he said. McQueary says, quote, "Jerry was behind a young boy. The boy was up against the wall."
McQueary says he heard slapping sounds, saw slow movement. He then bluntly stated this. "I believe Jerry was sexually molesting him and having some type of intercourse with him." So, that's just the start of McQueary's testimony there.
Now that we have that out of the way, let's go straight to Lisa Bloom. Lisa, it is disturbing, details are disturbing here. But there is a good lesson in this I'm sure about what you should do. These are pretty damming details against Sandusky. How credible did McQueary's testimony come off today?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: You're right. The number one lesson we can all take from this horrendous case is if you believe a child is being accused, call the police, period. This entire matter could have been avoided if that had happened.
I think McQueary is a very credible witness. I've handled many cases of child sexual abuse in my career as an attorney -- I still do, and this is the way people respond in the real world when they become aware a child is being abused. They're shocked, horrified, they don't know what to do. I would say in less than one percent of cases is there an eyewitness as there is here.
And McQueary says even though he was a 27-year-old man and he observed this, he called his father because he didn't know how to respond and he went over and spoke to his father about it. And they decided together that he would have to report it. I find that to be very credible.
The details are also credible. The sound of skin slapping on skin. How awful is that to imagine? The positioning of the two bodies. The fact that he says the boy didn't cry out or object. That's the way it goes down unfortunately in child sexual abuse cases. That's very, very common.
LEMON: I want to read some of the testimony here. This is his account to Curley and Schultz, what he says. He says - here's what McQueary said to them. He said what he saw was extremely sexual, extremely wrong, and that some type of intercourse was going on. When being cross-examined by one of the defense attorney, McQueary says, "No question. I conveyed to them I saw Jerry with a boy in a shower."
So, what does this mean when you hear -- you say this is -- his testimony is very credible. What does this mean for Curley and Schultz? You think they are headed to trial?
BLOOM: I think they are. Look, let's keep in mind this is a preliminary hearing. The state does not have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt now. They have to do that later at trial.
The question is only whether there is sufficient evidence to bind them over for trial. Ninety-five percent of the time in a prelim, that evidence is there, and I think it is there here and I think it will be held over. But of course, they are presumed innocent. I want to caution everyone we haven't heard their side of the story. That will come out at trial.
LEMON: I want to know - listen, we saw a little bit on the screen earlier McQueary said why he did not report the alleged rape to the police. And as you said at the beginning of this, if you see anything like that, you should call police immediately. He said, "Sitting right next to Curley, Schultz, in mind that this was the police. I wanted to make that clear." Because they were head - one of them was campus police. So, he believed in his mind that he was already talking to police.
And then he said he didn't necessarily in his conversation with Paterno say that there was penetration or use any type of language like that out of respect for the coach. Does this let him off the hook when it comes to going to police, and Paterno off the hook for maybe not knowing just how severe it was?
BLOOM: Well, Don, you raise two very important points that are a real problem in this country when we try to prosecute child sexual abuse. One is the language. All of us are uncomfortable with the language with talking about rape and anal sex and penetration and all the language that you have to use if you work in this field. But ordinary people are very uncomfortable with this language. And so what we see playing out in this case is very common that one person witnesses an event. When he goes to tell another one about it, he hedges a little bit, he couches the language because nobody likes to talk about this kind of stuff. That's later a problem as the case gets reported down the line.
The other problem is law enforcement. It is really a confusing morass if you are at a large university. There's university police, and there's local police, and there are all these layers of administrators. And I find it credible when McQueary said, I thought I was effectively going to the police when I was reporting to the administrator who oversees the Penn State police.
So, I would have preferred that he went right to the local police immediately, that's what everybody should do. That's the takeaway. But I find it credible that he thought effectively he was doing that.
LEMON: Lisa Bloom, appreciate your expertise on this. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend.
BLOOM: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: It was the last debate before the big contest in Iowa. How did the Republican candidates do? That is "Fair Game," that's next.
But first, our political junkie question of the day. Here it is. The presidential candidate with most children? Jon Huntsman: he's got seven. Do you know which president had the most children? The answer is just ahead.
(SINGING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Before the break we asked you which president has had the most children. And here is your answer. Do you know it? All right. The tenth president of the United States, President John Tyler. He had 15 children -- wait a minute. Excuse me. Tyler had 15 children! From two separate marriages, fathering his last child two years before his death at the age of 70. Now you know.
We're now less than three weeks away from the Iowa caucuses. Speaking of people who want to be president, so it was no surprise that last night's debate on the FOX News channel, Newt Gingrich was the main target to be the frontrunner now.
All things GOP debate are "Fair Game" for my guests here today, CNN political analyst, Roland Martin. Martin, I think he has like 21 children.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And CNN contributor, Will Cain. I think he has like 17.
Just kidding. I'm joking. ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No. No.
(LAUGHTER)
Nine nieces, four nephews, that's it.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Before we get started, I want some play back-and-forth between Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich.
MARTIN: Sure.
LEMON: Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN, (R), MINNESOTA & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Frankly, I am shocked listening to the former speaker of the House.
When the speaker had his hand out and he was taking $1.6 million to influence senior Republicans to keep the scam going in Washington, D.C., that's absolutely wrong.
NEWT GINGRICH, (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The easiest answer is that's just not true. What she just said is factually not true. I never lobbied under any circumstance. And I think sometimes people ought to have facts before they make wild allegations.
BACHMANN: After the debate that we had last week, "Politifact" came out and said that everything I said was true. The evidence is that Speaker Gingrich took $1.6 million. You don't need to be within the technical definition of being a lobbyist to still be influence peddling with senior Republicans in Washington, D.C. to get them to do your bidding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Roland, Gingrich --
MARTIN: Whoa, Nellie!
LEMON: Gingrich still having trouble answering the Freddie Mac question here. A lobbyist, paid consultant. Is it semantics? He was a little -- not a little. He was condescending I think to Michele Bachmann. Go on.
MARTIN: We got an old saying called fever in the funk house. Man, she was putting it on him.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Yes, she was.
MARTIN: Look, Don, the rally is -- (CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Bachmann -- absolutely. Bachmann was absolutely on it. The problem for her though is that she's saying so many things in past debates that was false. Even that "Politifact" claim, "Politifact" came right back and said she was wrong about that. But she's absolutely right. Newt Gingrich can dance around this all day. But the fact of the matter is, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, they hired Republicans and Democrats. Put them on the payroll so they can be able to keep doing what they were doing in Congress. And so when he wants to say, oh, no, I wasn't lobbying, she nailed it. You were there for influence.
And I was surprised that Romney and Perry was not as aggressive in nailing Newt Gingrich. So he gave a long-winded answer. He has some issues on this particular issue.
LEMON: OK.
MARTIN: It is a winner for her.
LEMON: So, I know you want to get in on this. I want to ask you another question, but it seems like you want to get in on this one. What do you want to say?
WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I was going to say, first of all, on the Romney strategy, it is working out for Romney I think. He is having his surrogates attack Newt Gingrich, from Michele Bachmann to Ron Paul. He comes off looking like the nice guy while these people attack Newt Gingrich. It is perfect from a sheer strategy standpoint.
But more importantly, Don, let me say this. One of the central tenets of conservative in the Republican Party ought to be about free markets. This represents the problem with Newt Gingrich. Free market, the operative word there is "free." Whether involved in cronyism, whether we call it lobbying, advocating, whatever, when you take money from a government-sponsored enterprise, you are not playing in the world of free markets. Posit this against Mitt Romney who was asked, what's the next industry of the future? And he said, I don't know, the free markets will answer that.
(CROSSTALK)
CAIN: That's the difference we have to look at.
LEMON: I want to go on here, because there was also an interesting back-and-forth with Ron Paul talking about wars and bringing our troops home. Will, I want to ask you -- listen, Ron Paul said we can't treat Iran like Iraq. Will that be a tough sell to conservatives, especially -- go ahead.
CAIN: Undoubtedly. Clearly, it is going to be a tough sell to conservatives. If you get on any conservative web site today, from "National Review" to "Daily Caller," if you open up any newspaper, from the "Wall Street Journal" to the "Washington Post," conservatives will say Ron Paul is very good -- but. Big comma, big capital letters -- "but." They say he comes off as an isolationist. They say he assesses blame to the United States for the terrorist attacks we've endured. And he doesn't want to get involved in any potential threats to our country.
I'm not telling you whether or not he is an isolationist. I'm not passing judgment. I'm answering your question about how he comes off to conservatives. Yes, it probably is a long-term problem.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Don, these conservatives don't want to hear the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Let me pose this question to you. Because that's what I was going to -- when I said go ahead to Will, I was going to ask him, do you think this -- what Ron Paul is saying, if it plays to Independents and it plays well to young people, especially college campuses and that sort of thing --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Absolutely!
LEMON: -- Independent voters, Roland?
MARTIN: He's playing well to people who actually know how to read and pay attention. What Congressman Ron Paul is saying is the United States cannot continue to meddle in somebody else's foreign affairs and don't think that is somehow going to impact us later. Remember, you had Rick Santorum reference Iran last night, saying that they went to war with us in 1979. But Republicans don't want to mention 1954 when we helped overthrow the Iranian government and put in the shah of Iran. Ron Paul is saying stop the warmongering. It was amazing to hear Republican candidates say, we might want to try diplomacy. Look, they don't want to hear that stuff from Ron Paul, but I'm going to tell you right now, when you spend $800 billion in Iraq fighting a war we should not have been in, and we're still in Afghanistan, somebody is speaking some sense to say you can't keep blowing stuff up and somehow think that's going to fix the problem.
LEMON: Thank you, Roland. Thank you, Will.
Can you imagine, Roland talked most of the time, Will? That's shocking, isn't it?
(CROSSTALK)
CAIN: Let me put it this way. One of us is Batman, one of us is Joker. I'll let your audience decide.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Actually -- no. Actually, one of us is Batman and you're Robin. Nice tights.
LEMON: All in good fun.
Thanks, Will Cain and Roland Martin.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: That's "Fair Game" for today.
Moving on, actor, Christian Bale gets roughed up while trying to visit a Chinese activist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN BALE, ACTOR: They followed up. They tried to take the cameras and then just forced us away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Only CNN was there. The scuffle and car chase that followed, next, in "Globe Trekking."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Time to go "Globe Trekking."
Terminator and Batman movie star, Christian Bale, is used to fight scenes and car chases on a movie set, that is. But the Academy Award-winner experienced some real-life drama on a trip to Shandong, China. He was roughed up by security when he tried to meet a detained human rights activist.
CNN's Stan Grant was with him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALE: Why can I not -- why can I not go to visit this man?
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hollywood actor, Christian Bale, is used to action, but this is no movie set.
BALE: We've been stopped.
GRANT: Plain-clothed Chinese security, who would not identify themselves, determined to stop him and our crew contacting the detained human rights activist.
GRANT (on camera): Watch it, Christian.
We're trying to get out of here. Once again, we've been stopped. We've been stopped right here. And, as you can see, they are pushing Christian here. We're just trying to leave peacefully. We're trying to leave peacefully.
GRANT (voice-over): As we leave, the guards give chase in their car. BALE: They're still right on our tail.
GRANT: Christian Bale says this is not what he'd hoped for. He'd made an eight-hour car journey from Beijing to try to meet a personal hero, the blind, self-taught lawyer, Chen Guangcheng.
BALE: I'm not being brave doing this. The local people, who are standing up to the authorities and insisting on going to visit Chen and his family and getting beaten up and, from my understanding, is being detained and everything for it, I want to support what they're doing.
GRANT: Bale has been in China for the premiere of a film that he's made here about the Japanese invasion of Nanjing (ph) in the 1930s. Bale could have rolled up the red carpet and left, but the actor, whose movie is about suffering and injustice, could not leave China without highlighting this real-life struggle.
Chen Guangcheng has campaigned against allege forced abortions and the treatment of villagers in China. In 2006, he was sentenced to more than four years in prison for disrupting traffic and damaging property. He denies those allegations.
Chen has not been allowed to leave his home since his release last year. Local Chinese authorities in Shandong Province have his house and local village in lockdown. No one allowed in to see Chen. Authorities here declined to comment on the case.
The United States is championing Chen's cause. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has raised his case during past visits to the region.
Christian Bale now wants to add whatever weight he can.
BALE: This doesn't come naturally to me, but this was just a situation. I said, I can't look the other way.
GRANT: Bale has followed CNN's coverage of Chen's case and approached us to try to meet the blind activist. His hopes were high, until this.
BALE: What I really wanted to do was shake the man's hand and say thank you and tell him what an inspiration is.
GRANT: The Chinese security continued to chase us for more than half an hour. We got away. Chen remains locked in his house.
Stan Grant, CNN, Shandong, China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: 20 percent of suicides in the United States are committed by veterans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROB GRIFFO, HEALTH TECH, VETERANS CRISIS LINE: He was an amputee who had his leg blown off in an IED and he just didn't feel that he wanted to be a burden to his family anymore. With the sheriffs on the way, he shot himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Their personal stories as we visit one center trying to stop vets from committing suicide. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This just in to CNN. Remember we told you at the top of the hour they were going to vote on this? This is just in. The House of Representatives today, just moments ago, approved a $1 trillion spending plan and, of course, that plan is going to fund the government for the rest of the fiscal year. So there will be no government shutdown for the rest of the fiscal year. The measure goes to the Senate where approval is also expected to prevent a partial government shutdown at midnight tonight, Midnight on Friday. Now you know. We're all safe, at least for now, when it comes to the budget. All right. At least when it comes to the government not shutting down, I should say.
Did you realize that 20 percent of all suicides in the United States are veterans? Now these are the men and women who fought for you and this country. Every day, hundreds of suicide calls come in to the veteran's crisis line. And we went behind the scene with Suicide responders at the V.A. In just one day, the one day we were there, there were two suicide rescues. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED VETERAN CRISIS LINE WORKER: Thank you for calling the Veteran Crisis Line. This is Scott. How can I help?
Eric, first off, thanks for serving. What do you mean by crisis? Are you suicidal?
DR. JANET KEMP, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, VETERANS CRISIS LINE: We've done close to 20,000 rescues since the crisis line has started. First thing I say to a caller when they do have the object that they plan on killing themselves with on their person, whether it is a loaded gun on their lap or the rope already strung or whatever, I always say to them, can you agree to not shoot yourself, take your pills, get up on the ladder while we are on the phone?
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: Can you put that knife away for a little bit, just while we talk?
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: Suicidal vet on the phone. He stated he had, like, a big knife in his lap, that he was going to use it to kill himself.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: He kept saying he took all his medicine, so I informed dispatch there was a possible overdose.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: Can I send somebody to help you? I think that's what I'm going to do, OK, because I think you want help. You called the hotline?
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: Two police officers on scene.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: Remember I said I was sending somebody to help you?
That was probably as close as I've come to a completion over the phone.
KEMP: The CDC estimates that approximately 20 percent of all suicides are completed by veterans.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: What sort of weapons do you have?
GRIFFO: Every rescue, there is a hint of anxiety. There is always the chance that something is not going to go right.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: I need to know what we can do to help you be safe today.
GRIFFO: He was amputee who had his leg blown off in an IED and he just didn't feel that he wanted to be a burden to his family anymore. With the sheriffs on the way, he shot himself.
We never, ever give up on a rescue. Whenever a vet needs help, we will do whatever it takes to find him. If he can't tell us where he is, we will do whatever it takes.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: You said as soon as we get off the phone, you plan on taking some pills. Is that all you plan on doing?
He lost his wife. He had been married for 20 years. He lost her a couple months ago and he called simply to give me a message to give to his family about funeral arrangements and that he wanted to be buried with a photograph of her. What do you think she would say? How would she feel if she knew you were going through this and you were planning on trying to kill herself?
So when I tried to talk to him about his wife, he became emotional, I couldn't understand anything he was saying, so I tried to flip it around, if you were the one that had died and your wife was thinking about this, you know, would you want her to do this? And he said no.
It's OK to cry. Just let it out, OK? I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here on the phone with you.
UNIDENTIFIED VETERANS CRISIS LINE WORKER: It's not a weak tons reach out for help and to get help.
GRIFFO: When they ask you to walk a mile with them, you say, no, I'll walk two.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Trying to keep our vets alive.
In other news now the Republican candidates squared off in a last-ditch effort to win over Iowa voters. John King is there, live, with a look at the winners and the losers.
And then this. Kids forced to listen to Justin Bieber's song "Baby" in school. Will they pay up to make it stop? This unusual fundraiser next, in "Street Level."
But first, time is running out to buy a paper U.S. savings bond. Did you know that?
(SINGING)
LEMON: Back when Bing Crosby was hawking U.S. war bonds, people got a paper savings bond. And we even had U.S. bonds when we weren't so united, like this 1864 Confederate States bond. But the days of grandma stuffing a bond into your birthday card are nearly over. January 1st, it is all digital, baby. Paper bonds, make way for electronic bonds. So it's --
(SINGING)
LEMON: Bye-bye paper bonds. Your 15 minutes are now up.
(SINGING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We'll check some stories making headlines at "Street Level."
Here is something that may surprise you about teens. More teens are turning to pot and away from alcohol and cigarettes. That is according to an annual national drug use report that surveyed 47,000 middle and high schoolers. Believe it or not, the number of teens drinking and smoking cigarettes are at its lowest point in 30 years. But at the same time, one in 15 teens say they use pot on a daily basis, the highest rate in 30 years.
To Illinois now, where high school students paid money to silence Justin Bieber. Seniors from Evanston Township High, they blasted this over the school's P.A. system.
(SINGING)
LEMON: Bieber's song "Baby" played over and over again for three days. Now, before all you Bieber fans get insulted, this was all for a good cause. The students raised $1,000 for a struggling cafe arts center. Paying to stop the song from playing over and over was just their motivation. Don't send your tweets and e-mails to me.
Now to Kentucky, where hundreds of DUI cases are in jeopardy. Why? According to a county attorney, some technicians did breathalyzers after their certifications had expired. Hundreds of breathalyzer test results are being questioned and could possibly be thrown out. The Jefferson County attorney's office will notify defendants and their attorneys and review the cases one by one.
We are now less than three weeks away from the Iowa caucuses. And last night was the final debate before the voting. John King has been all over the state of Iowa, hosting "J.K., USA." He joins us now from Cherokee.
He doesn't have the chandelier behind him. He has a new background.
So what did we learn from that debate last night?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We learned it was pretty civil, Don. You could tell the moderators made a decision that if the candidates were going to go at each other, they would let the candidates make that decision. They were not going to lead them into conversation.
So what did you have? A pretty tame debate. Yes, former speaker, Newt Gingrich, came under attack, particularly from Michele Bachmann early on. Former Senator Rick Santorum went after the other frontrunner, Mitt Romney, at that point. It was a pretty tame debate. And that's sort of typical of in the sense that you could see all of the candidates knew this was the last chance a mass audience was going to see them before the first vote. The Iowa caucus is 18 days away.
Did we learn anything new? Not really. We learned the theme of attacks we are going to get into the final 18 days. It's a fascinating race here. As you noted, we've been here all week. You can tell the Gingrich momentum has stalled. The question is, has it just plateaued or will it drop. I'm here today. Governor Rick Perry will be here in a minute. He was the leading conservative alternative at one point. But he stumbled in some debates. There's an uptick of his polling numbers in Iowa. He's in this small town because this is where you find evangelical voters, Tea Party voters. And if Perry is going to have a comeback, if he's going to be the surprise in Iowa this year, it is going to be by winning over people who might be leaning Santorum, might be leaning Bachmann, or undecided between Bachmann, Santorum and Perry. That's the governor's challenge, Don. A lot of chess still to be played out in these next 18 days.
LEMON: I want to talk to you a little bit more. We have just a couple seconds here left. I want to know, does Rick Perry -- it seems that he -- is he doing better in these debates? His performance has got better, hasn't it?
KING: He had the least amount of time in last night's debate. They felt better about the debates. He made the Tim Tebow joke last night about how maybe he hasn't done so well in the beginning of the game but he is going to win at the end. That is the big question for Iowa over the last two and a half weeks. Again, you do sense an uptick in support. It is not enough yet, but 18 days, no more debates, we'll see if he can do it the old-fashioned way, on the ground.
LEMON: All right. You are in Cherokee now. Where are you off to next, do you know? The airport?
KING: I'm sorry?
LEMON: I said you are in Cherokee now. Where are you off to next, maybe the airport? I don't know.
KING: We are going to do "John King, USA" from here tonight. Then I'm going to go back and see my little baby over the weekend.
LEMON: Ah.
KING: And then we'll see where the campaign takes us from there.
LEMON: Oh, that's nice. I'm sure viewers appreciate that, Daddy John King.
John, we will be watching tonight. Thank you, sir. Good seeing you.
Now, to a very talented and lovely and smart and informative, Brooke Baldwin.
Brooke, take it away.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And I didn't even have to pay you that much to say that, Don Lemon.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you very much. Hey, Don, happy Friday.
