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Hundreds Dead and Missing in the Philippines; Troubles in Iraq as U.S. Troops Leave; Ten-Year-Old Saves Sisters from Abuse; Ending the Iraq War; Two Former Penn State Officials to Stand Trial; Georgia County Suspends Band Activities; Cancer Survivor Becomes a Mom; Paying Your Debts

Aired December 17, 2011 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We're going to begin with some incredible pictures there out of the Philippines. Entire villages may have been wipe out by flash floods caused by a tropical storm. Just look at the force of that storm. More than 400 people are confirmed dead now. Hundreds more are missing. An estimated 100,000 people have been displaced. You can see them walking in the water there. According to witnesses, residents were in their beds when the deluge struck, water rose so quickly, people had to scramble on to their roofs to keep from being swept away. And CNN spoke with the Philippines Red Cross about the disaster. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD GORDON, PHILIPPINES RED CROSS: This is one quick deep fix that we never expected out of what is considered a storm that brought an awful lot of rain, that brought a lot of landslides caused by high tides and swollen rivers and all of a sudden you have a flash flood that suddenly kills people in most of the villages in the area, and that is why today, we have 436 people dead and over 350 people missing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's get more of a perspective on that. This is just horrendous. Our meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. Oh my gosh, you see those people? So many displaced?

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I know, and it happened quickly and it really caught a lot of people off guard and it's for a number of different reasons. First of all, this was a lot of rain. You know, this wasn't storm surge that came up and flooded out the town. This was over a month's worth of rain in about 12 hours or so.

LEMON: Wow.

JERAS: I know. So, I mean, it happened very, very quickly. People were in bed, they were sleeping at the time. And they don't get tropical storm all that often in the Southern Philippines. There are little more used to it in the Northern Philippines. So, that maybe get one every 12 years or so. Let's fill out the train a little bit. And how to explain this really happened.

LEMON: Does the water have anywhere to go? When it comes down so quickly. They can't absorb it that quickly?

JERAS: Right. Well, it has to do with their proximity to the mountains. A Google earth animation that we're kind of show you here their proximity. So, their cities, they got flooded out or for the most part right into the coastal areas, eight? And so, as water lifts up the mountains, air gets forced up the mountains, the rainfall becomes heavier there and it has nowhere to go. So, it's just a big deluge of water that comes down these mountains. There you can see the river on the western side of the city. And it all comes down at one time. Now, most of the people that died drowned. So, this was flooding event for them. And they're about five people or so from what we understand that died in a landslide. So, all that mud comes down and just pushes these homes away.

LEMON: Any sort of warning there that we can sort gauge it here with our technology?

JERAS: Right.

LEMON: There was a warning before the...

JERAS: Well, they knew it was coming. They knew that there was going to be a tropical system. But when you think tropical storm as opposed to a typhoon, perhaps you're not quite as concerned about that type of thing.

LEMON: All right. And since we have you here, what about domestically here in the U.S.? What do we have?

JERAS: We have a couple of big stories in the U.S. Santa Ana winds, it's been a big deal. We've had gusts, over 70 miles per hour. About 2,000 people without power in Southern California. And remember, last weekend, that Santa Ana -- we got all that snow in Arizona and New Mexico? Same kind of story that's going to happen once again this week.

LEMON: Jacqui, we'll be sticking around checking on that. And also, we'll be talking more about the Philippines as well. Thank you, meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. Appreciate it.

Let's move on now and talk about what's happening in your government. Two months, the Senate was able to stop arguing long enough to extend the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits for two months instead of the full year. The House must now OK it before it goes to the President's desk. And even if it all goes through, if it all goes through, we'll just be back here talking about it again in February. In February, it's not that long off.

I'm sure Athena Jones will agree, she's live at the White House. So, Athena, what's been the reaction from the Obama administration on this?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. You talk about next year and the President is already pitching forward to next year. He came out in and spoke in the briefing room here at the White House at about 12:30. He spoke for only about only a few minutes and he talked about what he expects Congress to do next year. Let's listen to what he said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: I'm very pleased to see the work that the Senate has done. While this agreement is for two months, it is my expectation, in fact it would be inexcusable, for Congress not to further extend this middle class tax cut for the rest of the year. It should be a formality, and hopefully it's done with as little drama as possible when they get back in January.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: And so, he went on to say, this is not hard. There are plenty of ways to pay for these proposals. But it's interesting he should say that. Because it has been hard, it has been very hard for this Congress to really agree on almost anything all year. And as you mentioned earlier the House still has to vote on this and it's not at all clear that this bill is going have all the support it needs to get in the House. There was a conference call with republican house members just this afternoon and there was a lot of consternation and concern on that call about this bill. So, the President's already looking forward to next year, and yet we still haven't really reached past this final hurdle that needs to be passed, so you can find this into law. And so, they're talking about the victory of being able to make sure that people have, don't see their paychecks fall January 1st and that still not a done deal.

LEMON: Yes. That's what -- yes, I want to talk about the process here. And as you were talking, beautiful. It's dusk in Washington. There's a beautiful live shot of the capitol that that we're looking at next to Athena Jones. We can bring it back up. The question, look at that. Isn't that gorgeous? So the question here Athena is proposal stuff. So, when will the House take this up and when will House Republicans and will I should say, will House Republicans go along with it?

JONES: Well, that's the question here. It's not at all clear. We know that one of the provisions that was added to this bill, this keystone pipeline provision which is about this pipeline that's going to be built from Canada bringing oil from Canada down to the Gulf Coast, that's something that the Obama administration had wanted to put off a final meeting of that whole project until 2013, because of some concerns that environmental have brought up. Republicans say that it's going to add a lot of jobs. And so, House Republicans added these provisions of their bill. Their year extension of the payroll tax cut and ended up sending that to the Senate.

But the House added that provision to get some Republicans onboard. And so, the real question is, yes, they kept that provision in. The White House says, it doesn't change too much. But still you're going to -- we're hearing from the few people who have been on this, that we're hearing from, who were on this republican conference call with the republican conference, and it's not clear that they're all going to come together. We know that the House could vote at early as Monday. But we expect them to be in pro-forma session on Monday. So, not the full house. So, it could be Tuesday. But right now, it's really anyone's guess as to how it's really going to play out.

LEMON: It's always something. They got to go away for vacation, as pro forma. They got -- OK. You mentioned the Senate. So, the Senate also passed a spending bill. Give us the details on that. And it's, to keep the government operating until September?

JONES: Well, yes. The good thing about this, I mean, the people are certainly pleased that this is something that's going to keep the government operating all through next year. That's a big deal, because you look back at this year, there were numerous continuing resolutions, bills passed for just a few weeks or months at a time to keep the government running. So, in some ways, that's a victory. And certainly, the White House senior administration officials who held a briefing not long after the President's spoke wanted to spin this omnibus bill as it's called, as a positive. They say that it preserved a lot of there to keep priorities. It preserved funding for environmental protection initiatives. Sixty thousand spots for head start. So, they feel the one good thing about this, that it takes that whole -- this funding fight off the table for next year, Don.

LEMON: All right. Athena, thank you. Again, that's beautiful shot there. You should get outside and go look at it. It's gorgeous.

JONES: I will.

LEMON: Appreciate it. All right. Now for the people who are vying to be in the White House, not far from there. To Iowa now, the first true battleground for the field of republican presidential hopefuls. Some are campaigning in the state today but not the front-runners.

CNN's political reporter Peter Hamby standing by live in Des Moines. And Peter, it's kind of a who's on first, because Newt Gingrich is in Washington. Mitt Romney, South Carolina today. And Romney is making an appeal to a group that hasn't always liked him, which is the Tea Party.

PETER HAMBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Don. He was endorsed yesterday by South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. You know, who asked him some strong support on Tea Party activist. Present South Carolina and nationally. And the Romney campaign is trying to put out this message of momentum that we're bringing the Republican Party together but it still has to make an appeal to the conservative base, that is long and skeptical of him especially in South Carolina. Campaigning with Haley today, he said something that Democrats are really seizing on. Take a listen to what he said in Charleston, South Carolina this morning while he's campaigning with Governor Haley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Many Tea Party folks are going to find me, I believe, to be the ideal candidate. I think Tea Party supports want to see government shrunk. They think it's too big. They think someone has to cut the federal budget, and I do. They want us see balance the federal budget, and I will. They want someone to get the economy going who understands jobs and the economy, not just government. And jobs and the economy is what I know. They're tired of people who spent their life in politics who thinks that Washington is the answer. I didn't spend my life in politics. I spent my career in the private sector.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMBY: So, there you see Governor Romney sort of trying to explain why he does line up with the Tea Party. Now saying, I'm a Washington outsider. That's kind of a jab at Newt Gingrich. But listen to what he said at the beginning. He said, I'm an ideal Tea Party candidate. Democratic National Committee seized on that comment today and started hammering Governor Romney in a series of e-mails to reporters, saying, once again, this is a guy who will say and do anything to win. You can't trust him. Obviously, Romney is the guy that President Obama doesn't want to run against. So, they're trying to weaken him as much as possible.

LEMON: And that's expected.

HAMBY: Republican primaries at that time, so.

LEMON: That's expected.

HAMBY: Yes.

LEMON: This is always a big deal though every time. The Des Moines register, and who they're going to endorse. And who's expected to get it?

HAMBY: Well, the talk here in Des Moines among republican insiders is that they expect Governor Romney to get it. They say the Des Moines register sort of has -- sort of establishmentarian streak, they endorsed John McCain, sort of the establishment friendly candidate back in the last campaign in 2008.

LEMON: How important is this endorsement, though? How important is it?

HAMBY: I know. Well, you know, the media loves to pay attention to this. Will it move votes? Probably not. Will it determine a winner? Most certainly not. The last time the Des Moines register actually picked a winner in the caucuses has back in 2000, when they picked George W. Bush. They endorsed him. He won in '96. They picked Bob Dole. He won. But after that, they haven't had that strong of a record. So, you know, we'll see. It's always good for a campaign to get this endorsement. You want it, you want voters in Iowa to wake up Sunday morning open the paper over their coffee and read nice things about their candidate. You know, but is it going to change the narrative or the race? Probably not. And also, pay attention to what the Des Moines register editorial board says about the candidates they don't endorse. Do they say negative things about Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, whoever they choose not to endorse.

LEMON: Yes. Well, that's all...

HAMBY: That could also have an impact on the race on.

LEMON: That's all inside baseball. I think people across America, they just kind of want to know, hey, Peter, just having a little fun. Look behind you. It's beautiful. This is my favorite time of the day. I talked about Athena's live shot and your live shot. And the light is just gorgeous. It's beautiful. I'm sure, look behind you. Can you see that?

HAMBY: Yes. It's a nice time of day. This is the Iowa state house. This is, you know, a nice part of town. I'm standing in the east village, which you know, if you're a reporter and you've been coming to Des Moines for years and years covering politics, the east village right here in front of the state house is really developed in a cool little neighborhood. You know, a lot of political people hang out here. I had lunch with some people from the state house today just right next to me right here in the east village of Des Moines. So, it is a beautiful time of day here. And I'm glad the live shot looks good for you guys, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And that's not a real Dalmatian whatever it is over your left shoulder, because it hasn't moved since you've been doing your live shot. Peter Hamby in Des Moines. Thank you very much, we appreciate it.

Now that American troops pull out of Iraq, will fear set in for Iraqis? Their unity government is already showing serious signs of cracking, and we'll take you inside the government dispute there, and a reminder -- this "Time" magazine cover. Look at that. Nine years ago, the Iraq war began in Baghdad. We'll talk to "Time" magazine's editor and former Baghdad Bureau Chief about the long road from then until now. That's straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, Americans ponder what happened in Iraq, many Iraqis fear what will happen after remaining U.S. troops depart. Some Iraqis say that they are scared their leader will become a dictator, their peace will crumble and their basic freedoms will be denied. Here's CNN Arwa Damon.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The so-called national unity, Iraqi government appears to be falling apart. Even before the last U.S. soldiers have departed Iraqis soil. The Iraqiya bloc, the largest bloc in parliament headed by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi announced on Saturday that it would be suspending its membership from parliament, because the bloc says, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al- Maliki has absolutely no intention of ever implementing the power sharing agreement that was established between Iraqiya and al-Maliki state of law coalition. Iraqiya lawmakers have been accusing Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki of consolidating power. He does still maintain full control over the security portfolio which of course includes the ministries of defense and interior. Now, Iraq's deputy Prime Minister Saleh Mutlaq, a Sunni who is also a member of Iraqiya had some pretty harsh criticism during an interview with CNN that took place just a few days ago. He simply called al- Maliki a dictator and said that al-Maliki was playing both the U.S. and Iran. And that one day America would grow to realize this and regret its decision to back al-Maliki. Meanwhile, there have been other concerning signs when it comes to the so-called democracy in Iraq, which is why so many Iraqis are concerned about their future. When we talk about freedom of speech, one of the main cornerstones of democracy, it most certainly seems as if this Iraqi government is either unwilling or unable to safeguard it.

A CNN cameraman on Friday was beaten up following an anti-government demonstration, ripped from his vehicle, taken down an alleyway by pistol-wielding pro-government thugs, the Iraqi army that was present, all of this happening within their sights did not do anything to stop this. And this is not an isolated incident. Human rights watch, since the end of February has catalogs numerous violations by the Iraqi security force, against not only journalists but activists and bloggers as well. Many Iraqis of course growing increasingly concerned that as the U.S. continues to leave, their country could descend into chaos. Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.

LEMON: All right. Arwa, thank you very much.

Coming up at 5:30. We're going to go in-depth on this milestone in U.S. military history. I'm going to speak loud to Bobby Ghosh, he's a former Baghdad Bureau Chief of "Time" magazine. So, stick around. That's going to be interesting.

Questions of Bradley Manning's gender identity came up today in this trial at Fort Meade, Maryland. Manning's attorney brought up his online alter ego, Breanne. The army private is accused of the biggest intelligence leak in U.S. history. Government documents ended up on the Wikileaks Web site. Twenty-four year old faces 22 counts of violating military code, which could land him in jail for life.

Other stories from around the world to tell you about now. Protesters in Cairo say, they are fed up with their interim prime minister. Today, they clashed with Egyptian security forces who beat them back with batons and firearms. At least ten people have been killed since Friday. More than 400 others are wounded.

A 10-year-old girl refuses to board her school bus to go home. We'll tell what you she said that led to the arrest of her mother and her mother's boyfriend. And why she's being called a hero. We're back right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Since the Penn State scandal broke, we have been inundated by stories of people not doing the right thing. Now, here's a story to put all of those accused do-nothings to even further shame. A 10- year-old girl in Illinois refused to get on her school bus one day staying behind to tell her teacher her mother's boyfriend had been molesting her for years. She said, she wanted to save her two younger sisters from the ongoing abuse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I didn't want to get hurt anymore, or bad things happened to me again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. So, guess what happened after this? The boyfriend pleaded guilty to sexually abusing all three sisters, and the mom has been charged with child endangerment since the girl says she repeatedly told her what was happening.

We're going to bring in our human behavior experts. First, Dr. Alduan Tartt, he's a clinical psychologist, he joins me here in Atlanta and then doctor of psychology Wendy Walsh. Also, the co-host of the TV show "The Doctors."

Thanks to both of you. Wendy, I'm going to start with you. What is it, women, why would some woman allow her children to be abused like that? Is there any man worth that?

WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: No, not certainly like to. But you know, women hold on to these weird attachments and go in denial for all kinds of reasons. They could have attachment anxiety about losing their guide. They may need the money, the support. But this is no way to defend her. Single mothers out there, and I'm one of you, 14 million single mothers. One of the most dangerous places for our children to be is in a home with a non-biological male. Mommy's boyfriend. They have 11 times the chance of suffering sex abuse, physical abuse or emotional abuse. So, women have to be really careful when they're choosing boyfriends if they're a mother.

LEMON: Yes. The question is too, Alduan, what type of challenges are this sort of girl ahead, what challenges are ahead for her? Because she and her siblings have been separated now. And she's probably going to go through something for telling and having her siblings separated?

ALDUAN TARTT, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Well, I mean, she feels like a hero right now. Because she stopped abuse. Now, she's going to need counseling, but the good thing is that she stopped it and she's going to be explaining to her sisters, hey, it doesn't matter what adults say if they're sexually abusing you is never OK.

LEMON: OK. Short and simple. Let's go into another case now of kids. But this one has to do with sports. Parents in New Canaan, Connecticut are outraged after the coach of the eighth grade football team had his placer burn their third place trophy as a coach and two others resigned, Alduan, why is this such a big deal? First of all, why they have to burn the trophies? Do you know?

TARTT: Well, I understand what they were trying to do. Being a former coach, I get it. They were trying to say, forget about the last loss, but they should have burned the score, not the trophies. If they really wanted to use trophies, they should have -- expectation of winning, they should have gone a trophy for next year and made them champions and had them take that. Now, remember, these are five-time champions.

LEMON: OK.

TARTT: So, these coaches understand about winning. And it's hard for me to come down on coaches that made a simple mistake of burning trophies when they spend so much time with kids when there is so many fathers just won't do it.

LEMON: Did I hear a sigh from you?

WALSH: Yes, you did. OK, Dr. Tartt, Mr. Coach man, let me say just this, that we know about behavioral theory. If you want people to behave better, you reward them, right? You say, hey, you did great this time. We're going to catch up next year. But by burning the trophy, you are symbolically saying, you are not good enough. You are trash. And that doesn't generally motivate people to do better. It lowers their self-esteem, in my opinion.

LEMON: OK.

WALSH: Just saying.

LEMON: All right. Listen, it's interesting, because they released a statement just real quick, one of the coaches said, our point was to flush away the disappointment of the team's last game and to move on, and not dwell on any, dwell on it any further. It was bad judgment. We apologize to the players and the parents. OK. So, let's move on. Finally, there's some bad behavior at the University of Vermont. The Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity has been shut down temporarily after the national chapter learned about a survey that asked, brothers, quote, "If I could rape someone who would it be?" Wendy, really?

WALSH: Oh. You are starting me sighing again. You know, whenever people have trouble with sexist communication and say, oh, it's just a joke. It's just life. I flip it around and turn it into racist communication. What if the survey said, which black schoolmate of yours which you would like to lynch? OK? Should the fraternity be closed? Absolutely. So, raping women is nothing to joke about, it's nothing light and I totally agree for this university for closing down this fraternity for it.

LEMON: Alduan?

WALSH: I couldn't agree more. The thing is most concerning, it's the fact that he thought it but he didn't have the good sense enough to not spread this as a survey throughout the whole fraternity. This guy definitely needs counseling.

LEMON: All right. You can at least agree on that. The middle thing, take to you task for.

WALSH: Yes.

TARTT: Well, you know what... (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It will be all right.

TARTT: Go blue. You know?

LEMON: All right. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

WALSH: Thank you.

LEMON: Coming up next, basketball star Kobe Bryant and his wife Vanessa Bryant are calling it quits. Have you heard? And guess what, no pre-nup.

The Chicago Bears cut one of their players. You won't believe what he's accused of doing in his spare time. Your headlines are straight ahead right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: If you pay attention now, you'll going to get caught up on all the day's headlines. The Chicago Bears have dropped wide receiver Sam Hurd from the team. This follows his arrest Wednesday on federal charges of conspiring to possess and distribute cocaine. This get her say, Hurd was trying to set up a drug distribution network in Chicago. He is free on $100,000, $100,000 cash bond.

It looks like basketball star Kobe Bryant is headed to a different kind of court. Not the hardwood but a hard one, I'm sure. Divorce court. His wife Vanessa has decided to end their marriage after 10- and-a-half years due to irreconcilable differences. TMZ.com reports the couple has no pre-nup agreement. TMZ also reports Vanessa Bryant, his hired divorce Attorney Laura Wasser whose clients include Maria Shriver and a long list of wealthy people as well.

The nation's first female prisoner of war ever to be rescued has some sound advice for U.S. troops coming home. Get educated and make the most of the Military's G.I. Bill. That's what former Army Private First Class Jessica Lynch did. She graduated from the University of West Virginia at Parkersburg. She did that just yesterday earning Bachelor's Degree in Elementary Education. Lynch made headlines back in 2003 you might remember when she was captured and tortured by Iraqi soldiers and then was later rescued by U.S. Forces.

Here's the image many of you are seeing at checkout stands this week. "Time" Magazine naming the protester as a person of the year. But as U.S. troops continue their pullout from Iraq, there's another cover that we want to show you. From nearly nine years ago. Fire and smoke billowing into the nighttime sky over Baghdad. Remember that? One of the most famous covers.

The U.S. and its allies launching a massive aerial assault on the capital. The beginning of a war that is only now reaching its conclusion.

We're joined now by "Time" Magazine's deputy international editor, Mr. Bobby Ghosh. He's "Time's" former Baghdad Bureau Chief, so he knows a lot about this war and about the situation. Bobby, thank you for joining us. Good to see you.

The world watched on Thursday as U.S. troops cased the colors in Baghdad, which is ceremonial, but this is more than the marking - it's marking an official end but, man, this is more than symbolic here.

BOBBY GHOSH, DEP. INTERNATIONAL EDITOR, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, yes. It's marking the official end of hostilities for the U.S. Military. It doesn't mean that the bloodletting in Iraq has come to an end. But for an audience in this country, it is an enormously emotional moment. This is a war that has taken a very heavy toll in blood and treasure on this country and for Americans at least there must be a deep sigh of relief and an acknowledgement that that is over.

LEMON: There have a number of great articles about this war ending, and there's a really good one today in the "Christian Science Monitor" that I want to - I want to read to you.

The paper quotes analysts for the Center for American Progress, Bobby, by saying, "The end of former Iraq President Saddam Hussein's brutal regime represents a considerable global good and a nascent democratic Iraqi republic partnered with the United States to potentially yield benefits in the future. But when weighing those possible benefits against the cost of the Iraq intervention, there's simply no conceivable calculus by which "Operation Iraqi Freedom" can be judged to have been a successful and - or worthwhile policy."

Bobby, that's a pretty bold statement. Do you agree with that?

GHOSH: I think I would - I would agree with that and I think you'll find that most Iraqis do, too. Most Iraqis I know, friends, people I've known many years, acknowledge that being rid of Saddam Hussein is an enormously good thing, and that perhaps the United States was the only international power that would do so. That would get rid of Saddam for them.

But they question, and I question, the cost that - that was paid, both not just by Americans but also by Iraqis in blood for that achievement of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. And they point out over and over again that it need not have been this way. That bringing Saddam Hussein down and the things that happened in the aftermath took this war into a very different direction. It need not have been this way and it was not simply a question of 20/20 hindsight.

People all along back in the summer of 2003 were telling American administrators that the post-war planning was lacking. That some of the steps that were taken were wrong and would have terrible consequences, and unfortunately, those consequences came to pass.

LEMON: 2003, that long. Just not that long after the war had started. That's a long time ago. There's been -

GHOSH: Some of the - some of the worst - sorry. Go ahead.

LEMON: No, you finish. Some of the worst what? GHOSH: Well, some of the decisions that were made in the immediate aftermath of the war, within weeks and months of that famous statue coming down in Baghdad, the decision to dismantle the entire Iraqi Army, the decision to criminalize the entire Baath Party no matter where you were in the hierarchy of the Baath Party. Those decisions enraged a lot of Iraqis and sent them into the arms of the insurgency and that created this enormous - the second war, if you like, between the occupying coalition forces and the new insurgency.

And that is what extended this war, al Qaeda came in and found willing recruits, and that extended this war to eight years. And people looking back, smart people, not - not just me, looking back sort of come to the conclusion that it need not have been this way and that it could have - it could have gone in a very different, less bloody, less expensive way.

LEMON: Well, we'll be watching. By the end of the year, it's supposed to be out. So we'll be watching to see when the last troops leave, what happens.

Thank you, Bobby Ghosh of "Time" Magazine. Appreciate it.

GHOSH: Thank you.

LEMON: A Grand Jury report put him in an unwanted spotlight. He is the man who says he saw Jerry Sandusky rape a child in a Penn State locker room. But in court, Mike McQueary changes some details in that story.

Straight ahead, we'll discuss what he said and what his testimony could do to this case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Two former Penn State officials will face trial for their alleged role in the child sex abuse scandal surrounding former football coach Jerry Sandusky. A judge ruled Friday that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz will be tried on charges of perjury and failing to report an allegation of child sex abuse in 2002.

So joining me right here in Atlanta, that's what that hearing was for -

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.

LEMON: -- yesterday decided and they decided that they're going - Holly Hughes. Holly Hughes is a former prosecutor. She's here. She knows everything about it.

OK. So the judge made that decision after hearing from Mike McQueary yesterday, who claims that he witnessed Sandusky touching a boy - is it yesterday or Thursday or early this week - touching a boy in a locker room showers in an extremely sexual way. That was back in 2002. And to be quite graphic, he said heard slapping sounds, sounds that sounded like sex.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: There was no - he didn't see other more detailed things.

He says he told Curley and Schultz about the incident about a week later. And Curley is the school's former athletic director and Schultz, he is the Vice President of the school, former vice president. But they deny it. They say he didn't do it.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: He didn't - he didn't tell them about it.

HUGHES: Correct. And obviously, you know, the judge isn't buying that, because he's saying, you are lying, in an official proceeding. You are giving tainted testimony, so you need to be tried for that perjury charge, and you also need to be tried for failing to report the sexual abuse in the first place, because, remember, they have mandatory reporting out there in Pennsylvania.

LEMON: Yes. Here's what he said. He's claiming that McQueary only spoke of inappropriate contact, that made him feel uncomfortable and explains to the judge, what he did and then he went and told his dad, because he was so upset.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: But here's - here's the question. He said when he told those two, he figured because one was the head of the school that he was actually talking to the authority figure, which was the police person, and that it would be relayed. Does this get him off the hook when it comes to that?

HUGHES: No, not really because -

LEMON: He should go straight to the police.

HUGHES: Exactly. I mean, when you see a crime being committed, then you call 911. This was the abuse of a child, sexual abuse of a child. Well, McQueary said, look, he's about 10 years old. So you know something criminal is happening at that moment. That does not alleviate your responsibility to pick up the phone and dial 911.

But because at the time he was only a graduate student. Remember, he was not on staff as a coach, so he didn't have the mandatory reporting.

LEMON: Yes.

HUGHES: So he's not in as much trouble as the folks who had the duty to report and failed.

LEMON: OK. And, you know, I wished I've warned parents before this, because, I mean, it's a weekend and kids may be in the room. So if you have kids in the room, this is - they may not - it may not be appropriate and you want to talk to them about this in you own way.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: So what I'm going to say now is not for children's ears. He couldn't say for sure whether he saw Sandusky rape the boy, and that, that differs from the Grand Jury report which McQueary, you know, said he saw the boy being sodomized -

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: -- which means he didn't actually see -

HUGHES: Correct.

LEMON: Right.

HUGHES: Yes. It's a very, very different testimony.

LEMON: Does that do anything for his credibility?

HUGHES: Well, what they're going to do is when we finally get to a trial and there's cross-examination, those prior inconsistent statements, that's the legal term we use, it's a prior inconsistent statement. It's different than the testimony you're giving now. Those are going to be used to try and impeach McQueary's testimony.

And so they're going to argue to the jury this man is not believable. You should not believe what he is saying because he can't even get his story straight. He's changed it two or three times. One thing to the Grand Jury, something else to the press, something else to the judge at this latest hearing.

So, yes. It will absolutely be something the defense argues.

LEMON: Yes. A bunch of things to talk to you about. You know, let's just drop that talk and finish talking about this.

So let's talk about Sandusky now because he was in court three days before McQueary, and he dropped his right, he waived his right to a hearing?

HUGHES: Yes.

LEMON: What does that mean for him?

HUGHES: Well, the preliminary hearing is sort of a mini trial, Don, and it's where the state has the burden to go before the judge and prove that there's enough evidence here to let a jury decide. There's enough that this could go either way. So they put up a mini case and they say to the judge, give us the right to go forward at trial.

Now, the defendant demands that right, but he can also waive it, and I think what happened here is Sandusky and his lawyer figured, we don't want the jury pool further tainted. We don't want the evidence out there that early, because it's bad. It's going to be bad.

Don, you know, we just had to give warning to our viewers at home, this may be something you don't want your children to hear. LEMON: Yes.

HUGHES: This is something that he probably sat down and said to his lawyer, do we really want this information out there now, and it's going to be out there in the public, this graphic testimony, for all the time when we're waiting for that jury to get picked.

LEMON: Yes. But every time you hear it - and this is the first time we've heard anything official, besides what was in the Grand Jury report and Sandusky speaking on television. We've heard from McQueary and then we're going to hear much more of this stuff and it's going to be even more graphic.

HUGHES: Yes, it is. And it's heartbreaking, Don. But that's unfortunately what the state has to do to meet their burden. They've got to prove those elements happened. And so, yes, it's going to get ugly but no uglier than the original crime on those poor victims.

LEMON: No.

HUGHES: Yes.

LEMON: You got that right.

HUGHES: Absolutely.

LEMON: All right. Holly Hughes, thank you.

HUGHES: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: The death of a Florida A&M drum major is ruled a homicide and allegations of another student was beaten severely. The latest on the hazing scandal and what band parents have to say, that's coming up in just moments.

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LEMON: The death of a Florida A&M University drum major has been ruled a homicide. A Florida medical examiner's report says Robert Champion Jr. was beaten to death in that hazing incident. It shows the otherwise healthy 26-year-old died from excessive internal bleeding after going into shock. Champion died on November 19th following a game in Orlando. No charges have been filed.

Also, three FAMU band members are facing charges now. They're accused of severely beating 18-year-old freshman band member Bria Hunter. She and Champion graduated from the same school here in Georgia. School officials there or here have since suspended all band activities throughout the county.

George Howell spoke with Champion's parents about the decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Southwest DeKalb High School Marching Band has performed for presidents. They played at the Rose Bowl. But when you ask band parents like Annie Brown -

ANNIE BROWN, BAND PARENT: The band, you know, it's like family. It's a real, nice family atmosphere.

HOWELL: But Brown tells me her suspicions are now raised about the culture within that family that DeKalb County School District in suburban Atlanta started an investigation into all of its bands after the death of Florida A&M drum major Robert Champion, a Southwest DeKalb graduate whose death is believed to be the result of hazing. Administrators say they discovered two cases of what they can only describe as inappropriate behavior over the summer.

(on camera): Inappropriate behavior, what is that?

WALTER WOODS, DEKALB COUNTY SCHOOLS: I don't want to get into specifics of the behavior, but we had two incidents over the summer of inappropriate activity associated with band at two different schools. That was part of the evidence that we collected that determined that we needed a formal investigation.

HOWELL: Sitting here waiting for your son, do you worry about all of these things that you've heard on the news?

BROWN: Yes. Even when I was in high school, back then, it - it happened then.

HOWELL: In high schools?

BROWN: In high schools, colleges.

HOWELL (voice-over): The DeKalb County School District suspended all outside activity for its 20 bands. A decision Robert Champion's parents say is a move in the right direction.

PAM CHAMPION, ROBERT CHAMPION'S MOTHER: I wouldn't have never thought the band, the one thing he loved the most, that this would happen like this.

WALTER M. KIMBROUGH, PRES., PHILANDER SMITH COLLEGE: People don't want to go to high school and be the kid that's left out. You don't want to be the kid in college that you don't have any friends. So that becomes - you go through those processes. You become a member of one of these groups and then you automatically have status.

HOWELL: The president of Philander Smith College, Walter M. Kimbrough, wrote a book on hazing and says it's important to examine student organizations, cliques and subgroups from high schools to colleges.

(on camera): There's always been a long history, a strong connection between the Southwest DeKalb High School Band and Van Hughes Band. And in this case, both victims, both Robert Champion and Bria Hunter went to school here not to mention the fact that two of the three people arrested for allegedly beating Hunter also went to this school. Parents tell me they appreciate the fact that this school district is investigating all of its bands. ROBERT CHAMPION, SR., ROBERT CHAMPION'S FATHER: If that would help one kid not be hurt, be hazed, even losing their life, it will be worth it.

HOWELL (voice-over): DeKalb school officials say it could be two months before their investigation is complete, and band activities can resume.

George Howell, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: I have a quick reminder for you. The attorney for the FAMU band member who was beaten in an alleged hazing incident just weeks before Robert Champion died, will join me in the 7:00 hour right here on CNN.

We're back in just moments.

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LEMON: This week we introduce you to someone who has achieved remarkable things despite having to overcome major challenges. For Sarah Werner, fighting cancer was a challenge, but it was her desire to be a mom that became her biggest fight.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta has her story in this week's "Human Factor."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARAH WERNER, CANCER SUVIVOR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He looks like his momma.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Being a mom was always Sarah Werner's dream. She never imagined it would take the help of a total stranger, Denise Bennett, to deliver that dream.

At 26, Sarah got devastating news. She had advanced cervical cancer and needed a hysterectomy.

WERNER: I went obviously completely into menopause and fertile, you know, in a matter of weeks after the diagnosis. So emotionally, it was a pretty tough pill to swallow.

GUPTA: But before she would undergo any cancer treatment, (INAUDIBLE), chemotherapy or radiation, she fought to keep her dream alive and she found a doctor willing to try to help.

WERNER: I made it very clear I wanted to be a mother no matter what it took. The doctor mentioned is like we're going to harvest the eggs. We're going to make embryos but we had to move very quickly.

GUPTA: Ten years later, despite being divorced, Sarah was ready to be a mom. And while she's cancer free now, she cannot carry a child. And then she found Denise, who agreed to be her surrogate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There he is.

WERNER: To sit back and see that first ultrasound was more than just - it was more than just realizing a dream of becoming a mother. But it was like I could completely relax and it wasn't going to be a fight anymore.

GUPTA: Denise carried and delivered a healthy baby boy. As Sarah prepares to take little Chase home from the hospital with her boyfriend Matt firmly by her side, she's overcome by the joy of having her dream finally come true.

WERNER: When I first had my hysterectomy and they told me that I could get a surrogate and have a baby, you know, that was to me like going to the moon. Like I didn't know anybody else that had done that. It sounded so crazy to me.

So just to sit here and have, you know, this little baby produced, you know, it took effort on so many people's behalf, but it - I mean, it can happen. And I guess that's like the one thing that I would - I would love to just tell somebody who is in my shoes because there are times when I really didn't think it could ever happen.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right.

Before can you build your savings and your investments, you need to pay for what you have already spent, right? So paying off debt is something everybody wants to do, but it's not always easy.

Christine Romans has some tips in this week's "Smart is a New Rich."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The worst present you can give yourself for holidays is more debt. You are listening, Congress? Don't buy that hype that you need to add to last year's debt this year. No sale, no hot holiday toy, no impulse purchases worth it at 20 percent on your credit card.

First, if you can't afford it, put it down.

GAIL CUNNINGHAM, NATIONAL FOUNDATION FOR CREDIT COUNSELING: In a perfect world, you would never charge more than you can pay in full when the bill arrived. Worst case scenario, plan to pay it out no longer than three months.

ROMANS: Track your spending. The National Foundation for Credit Counseling surveyed shoppers and found 56 percent had no idea where they spent their money by the end of the month.

CUNNINGHAM: We work very hard for our money and then we spend it very casually. You will never know where the leaks are until you write down every cent you spend for 30 days. Seeing your spending staring back at you in black and white is a real wakeup call.

ROMANS: Prioritize your debt. Credit card debt is particularly unforgiving, even with new protections. Aim to pay it off. The best boost to your credit score is paying off big amounts of debt and then paying on time every time with the card after that.

Did you know a missed credit card payment stays on your credit history for seven years? Finally, making a resolution to get out of debt and stay out of debt in 2012.

RYAN MACK, PRESIDENT, OPTIMUM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Go to AnnualCreditReport.com and print out your credit report to see how much debt you owe. Organize your debts in terms of from smallest on the bottom to largest on the top. Start calling your creditors to maximize and reduce the interest rate.

Going into 2012, this is one of best things that we can start to do to organize our own financial futures to get that right peace of mind.

ROMANS: Christine Romans, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right.

We want to check some headlines here on CNN. The United Front in suburban Detroit has about 200 Muslim and Christian protesters joined to picket Lowe's. They're criticizing the home improvement chain's decision to pull ads from the TLC reality show "All American Muslim." Lowe's decision came after a Florida group objected to the show's positive portrayal of Muslims in the U.S. A local station says 30 counter protesters showed up to support Lowe's.

I'm Don Lemon in the CNN Headquarters in Atlanta. I'll see you back here in one hour.

"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now.

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