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Dozens Killed in Syria Onslaught; U.S. Gropes for Syria Solution; Did Rick Santorum's Sweep Matter?; Catholics Battle Obama On Birth Control; How Child Abuse Survivor Is Fighting For Victims; The Pardons That Shocked Mississippi
Aired February 08, 2012 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Let's go, as always, the top of the hour, get you caught up on everything making news, "Rapid Fire." Let's go.
Want to begin in Syria, in Homs, specifically, where there's shelling and bombing -- you can hear it and see it -- by government forces. It is absolutely unrelenting.
People are cowering in their homes, afraid to try to escape as bodies lie in the street. One activist calls it -- and I'm quoting here -- "a huge crime against humanity." At least 60 civilians have been killed today alone, including 20 members of three families who died when government forces stormed their own homes.
We're committed to telling the story in Syria. Coming up in a matter of minutes, we'll go to neighboring Turkey to get a live report from Ivan Watson.
Back here at home, all eyes really on Wall Street. Take a look at the Big Board.
We're flirting with that number, that 13,000 number. The Dow has not seen that since 2008. That was before the financial crisis. The number has been in the red most of the time, but we're going to see what happens in these final hours of trading. Two hours to go, of course, before that closing bell.
Meantime, Rick Santorum, he says he has raised $250,000 online after his surprising trio of wins just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mitt Romney is not the best choice to go up against Barack Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And I'm sure, as you did with the rest of us, you stayed up into the wee hours watching CNN. You heard about Santorum's sweep. We're talking Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota.
Coming up, we're going to look ahead to this week's big gathering of conservatives where several of the presidential candidates will be speaking.
Also, the son of New York's police commissioner will not be charged with rape. A woman recently claimed TV anchor Greg Kelly assaulted her back in October. Investigators went, they through all these receipts and the phone records and text messages, and the district attorney's office says what happened between Kelly and his accuser doesn't fit the definition of sexual assault. Kelly says he's looking forward to getting back on the air.
And a victim of a vicious beating caught on video demands justice. Brandon White spoke publicly today for the very first time since the video surfaced online, and he says he didn't even know who this group of men was who just jumped him on Saturday in Atlanta.
And now the FBI is looking into this as a possible hate crime because White is gay. White says he may not have ever come forward and told his story if this video hadn't been posted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRANDON WHITE, BEATING VICTIM: By them going ahead and wanting to release it and put it on the Internet, I feel that they wanted the attention themselves. They wanted to make themselves look they were brave, they were strong. But in my opinion, I'm the brave one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And file this next one just in the odd category. This man here could get four years in prison in this bizarre animal death case in Riverside County, California.
Witnesses say 58-year-old Larry Jaurequi teed off on a six-pound Chihuahua, sending it flying through the air after it escaped while its owner was at work. Jaurequi has been arrested and is charged with one count of felony, animal cruelty, and use of a deadly weapon.
And a jumbo jet is grounded after -- count them -- 36 cracks were found in the wings -- 36. This is an Airbus A380. It's operated by Qantas, the biggest airline in Australia. And these cracks were found in the plane once it ran into major turbulence last month, injuring several people. But experts insist these cracks, all 36 of them, are pretty normal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFFREY THOMAS, AVIATION WRITER: All airplanes -- and I mean all airplanes -- have cracks. These hairline cracks are of no consequence whatsoever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Still, Europe's Air Safety Agency has ordered all of the Airbus A380 fleet to be inspected.
And more Super Bowl controversy, but this time about what you didn't see. Miss Deaf America, Rachel Mazique, has an online petition on her behalf asking for an apology from the NFL and NBC. That's because throughout the television coverage of Sunday night's game, she was not shown once as she signed the National Anthem and "America the Beautiful." Many in the deaf say community say they felt left out. No response yet from NBC or the NFL.
And just getting started here. Got a lot more to cover for you the next two hours, including this --
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: It's getting worse. The government in Syria is killing more of its own people, including three families alone in their own homes. This, as the U.S. military is getting plans in place.
I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.
(voice-over): A social worker calls 911 after Josh Powell takes his kids and pushes her away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I smell gasoline and he won't let me in.
BALDWIN: You'll hear the chilling moments just before the explosion.
Critics say President Obama has declared war on religion. The fight over birth control pits the White House against the Catholic Church.
Plus --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Staring right down the barrel and you know there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
BALDWIN: -- he survived a bullet to the head from this man. Now, as this convicted killer walks free, his pardon may not hold up.
And we're keeping a close eye on Wall Street, where the Dow may have a milestone finish.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Want to talk about Syria and the onslaught against its own people today claiming even more lives. Reports from the city of Homs say Syrian forces again are firing mortars into residential areas. They are shooting those mortars from a number of miles away, which means they can land off target. And that could explain why we're seeing scenes just like this -- women, children huddled together in hopes of riding out this army assault now in its fifth full day.
We have also seen at least one image of a dead infant in the city of Homs. We spoke today with a witness talking just about the sheer brutality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"DANNY," SYRIAN ACTIVIST IN HOMS: Well, what's happened in Homs is terrible. They're doing a massacre.
They're getting the Syrian army, they're surrounding this whole area I'm living in. It's called Baba Amr. They're surrounding the whole area with army troops and tanks and anti-aircraft.
They've been bombarding us from 5:00 a.m. with lots of kinds of rockets. If you look around me, we found this in one of the destruction in the House. This is one of the rockets we found in the houses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Look at the size of that.
Also, before we push on, I want to tell you this. CNN has learned that the Pentagon has begun a review of U.S. options in Syria. This is considered a formality just in case the president asks for a list.
We're going to talk a little more about that in a minute. But first, I want to go to Ivan Watson, who is standing by for us in Syria's neighbor of Turkey.
And Ivan, we've been talking and showing a lot of video of what's happening on the assault in Homs. Is there any way of knowing about any other Syrian cities currently under siege by the Syrian government?
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Definitely. We've been talking to other activists in other parts of the country. One town in particular near the Lebanese border, Zabadani, described to us as facing also siege-like conditions now for six days, surrounded by Syrian military, and being shelled as well, a residential area. We have some pictures that emerged last night, a shaky video of what's taking place there.
I also spoke with activists in the southern opposition stronghold region of Daraa. They describe tanks shelling a village in that area.
And despite that, despite violence and the fact that the Syrian military have tanks and artillery and helicopters against very lightly-armed opposition activists, we still have scenes like this of protests, defiance against the Syrian regime, even though more than 6,000 people have been killed over the last 10, 11 months in Syria -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Ivan I want to ask you just about the sheer strength of this opposition group, because we talked yesterday about them gaining momentum as a legitimate fighting force. And I want you to stand by, because I just want to tick through something, Ivan.
So, Syria's armed rebels are known as the Free Syrian Army, and they claim to have as many as 40,000 fighters. But we believe the true number really is somewhere more in the ballpark of 4,000, maybe 7,000. They are headquartered in Turkey, where you are, Ivan. They have civilians, they have defectors, 38 named battalions. They recently got their hands on some anti-tank missiles. My question to you is, what more can you add about this Free Syrian Army, and really the extent, the threat that they pose to the Assad regime?
WATSON: Well, according to Syrian state news agency, at least 13 soldiers from the Syrian army were buried just yesterday. They accused what they call armed terrorists of killing them.
The Free Syrian Army is not a cohesive fighting force. This is made up of defectors from the Syrian army, some volunteers as well.
One analyst has described them more as franchises rather than a united group that have sprung up in different parts of the country that, in some cases, have carried out operations and attacks, but often seem to be much more a defensive force to protect the civilian communities, the residential groups that are protesting against the government. And they're very lightly armed.
They are not using tanks, they don't have air power, and some of their supporters are smuggling trickles of weapons to them from across borders. But they're definitely outclassed by the Syrian military at this point.
BALDWIN: I want to ask you about Turkey, where you're standing, because on the one hand, Ivan, they appear to be harboring armed Syrian rebels. Surely they have an interest in the neighbor not blowing up into an all-out war.
Where does Turkey stand in all of this?
WATSON: Well, in the beginning of this uprising, they were trying to be in support with the Syrian president for the first months of it. And finally, after all the loss of life, they broke with him and said we can't negotiate with this guy.
It's a stretch to say that they are harboring armed rebels. They are harboring the leadership of some of the exiled Syrian opposition. They insist that they're not supplying any weapons to the opposition, but they are clearly giving some political cover and some political support to them.
They do not want so far any kind of military foreign intervention into Syria, but the Turks are calling basically for the downfall of the Syrian president because they are accusing him of massacring his own citizens.
BALDWIN: It's interesting. You point out that Turkey doesn't want military intervention.
Ivan Watson, thank you.
Because that brings me to a point we brought up a moment ago, that the Pentagon has now launched this initial review of U.S. options within Syria. And this, however, just to stress, this is really just considered a formality, a just in case scenario. U.S. officials, every time we prod them, are talking only about diplomacy here. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Assad is off the reservation. He is being armed and supported by Russia, perhaps others.
The opposition is increasingly -- the armed opposition, as opposed to the civilian opposition, is increasingly also resorting to violence and self-defense. That is not a dynamic that is in the interest of the people of Syria or the wider region.
So, before we start talking about military options, we very much want to ensure that we have exhausted all the political, economic and diplomatic means at our disposal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Joining me now from Washington, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, former assistant secretary of state for political/military affairs. He also served as deputy assistant secretary for Middle East affairs.
General Kimmitt, nice to see you.
I just want to begin with this "just in case" scenario. I mean, what options do you think are on the table right now for President Obama on really just how to proceed regarding Syria?
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, there are still plenty of options on the table, both diplomatic, some measure of military cooperation, perhaps, with the Free Syrian Army. And then, of course, you've got the option of conducting external military operations through a vehicle such as the United Nations or NATO, a coalition of the willing, or unilaterally. Those are the options. Each of them have problems in and of themselves, and it is clear that this administration is still focusing on the diplomatic option.
BALDWIN: But General, there are a lot of voices that say, hey, we went into Libya, we tossed Gadhafi out. Why not do the same thing in Syria? I mean, at risk at being redundant, can you just explain for all of us, really, the significant difference between Libya and the current situation in Syria?
KIMMITT: Well, the situations may be much the same, but the solutions are very, very different. Libya was completely different from Syria.
Going into Syria, we've got to recognize they have got one of the most advanced air defense systems in the region, they have got probably 4,000 anti-aircraft guns, they've probably got the same number of missiles, very, very advanced missiles courtesy of our close allies, the Russians, who continue to exacerbate the situation. It would far more costly to do a no-fly type of operation in Syria than we saw in Libya.
BALDWIN: You bring up Russia. Let's ask about this, because everyone is mad at the Russians. They're accusing Moscow of everything from propping up Bashar al-Assad to green-lighting this onslaught we keep seeing in the city of Homs.
Help us understand, what's in it for Russia here regarding Syria? And in particular, I was talking about this yesterday with an expert on Syria, this naval base that they're operating on Syria's Mediterranean coast.
Do you know about that?
KIMMITT: Yes. This really isn't as much about large issues within Syria. This is more about the Russians having an opportunity during an election season to be poking the eyes of the United States of America, to bolster a close ally in Syria, and quite frankly, shamefully sitting back when the solution is so readily apparent, which is the United Nations Security Council resolution.
Any talk that they have about a policy of non-intervention like the Chinese is shameful, at best, and I hope that our diplomats continue to call the Russians out and the Chinese out for their behavior in this regard.
BALDWIN: Thirty seconds. How long do you think Bashar al-Assad can last?
KIMMITT: It's sort of the question we were asked about Moammar Gadhafi. And the sad part about it is longer than most people are predicting. These types of situations don't end immediately needlessly, but eventually we're talking a situation where Bashar al- Assad and his father, Hafez al-Assad's old clique will no longer be in control of Syria. But I wouldn't want to put a prediction on how much longer that will take.
BALDWIN: Libya was months and months.
Retired General Mark Kimmitt, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
KIMMITT: Thank you.
BALDWIN: And if you thought he was out of the race for the White House, Rick Santorum proved you wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANTORUM: One of the great gifts that I've had in my political career is that no one ever thinks that I could ever win anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: How about last night? The Republican presidential candidate took home huge wins in all three states, Missouri, Minnesota and Colorado. But just how important was this night in really the grand scheme of this election?
Our own political guru who was up into the wee hours, Wolf Blitzer, is going to join me live after this quick break. Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: What should we talk about? Should we talk about what a great night it was for Republican Rick Santorum, or what an awful night it was for the GOP's presidential front-runner, Mitt Romney? Santorum swept the caucuses in Minnesota and Colorado and won the primary held in Missouri, thus stopping Romney's momentum dead in its tracks.
And by the way, I'm sure you were watching with us, but if you weren't, CNN was the first to call the race in Colorado. We were right there when it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN CALL, CHAIRMAN, COLORADO REPUBLICAN PARTY: Hold on a second.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But can you characterize for us -- I believe you have 99 percent of the numbers in.
CALL: We've got about 98 percent of our precincts reporting tonight. The Colorado Republican Party is prepared to announce that Rick Santorum has won Colorado's Republican preference poll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let me bring in the guy who really ran the show last night, Wolf Blitzer.
Let's start with Mitt Romney, because looking at the stats here, he's 0-3 last night, 0-3 in contests held in the Midwest, 1-4 in caucuses that tend to attract the most loyal Republicans.
How big is this problem for Mitt Romney?
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S THE SITUATION ROOM: It's a very serious problem he has, because if he would have done well last night, he would have been well on his way, a little bit further along. He wouldn't have had it wrapped up by any means, but now he has got to really struggle.
This coming Saturday in Maine there are caucuses. I suspect Ron Paul will do fairly well in Maine.
Then, at the end of the month, two major contests, one in Arizona and one in Michigan. And he's got to do well in both. Arizona has a large Mormon population. Michigan, his father used to be the governor there, he was born there. I assume he'll do well, but he's going to have to work harder, he's going to have to spend more money now. Instead of saving some of that money for Super Tuesday, March 6th, when there'll be about a dozen contests, he's going to have to work harder right now, because he can't afford to have any major surprises like he did last night.
He thought he was going to win Colorado for sure. He did great there four years ago, not so great this time around. You have got to give a lot of credit to Rick Santorum. BALDWIN: I mean, it's not often that you see on an election night all the different panelists sitting at this table saying we're surprised. Donna Brazile, David Gergen, et cetera, Ari Fleischer, no one anticipated this entire sweep.
BLITZER: No.
BALDWIN: So, Santorum here, given the sweep, does he have staying power, Wolf?
BLITZER: Yes. He does have some staying power. He's got a voice out there that's resonating with a lot of Republicans, a lot of conservatives.
Look at how well he did in Iowa. Remember, originally, he didn't win, he lost by a couple dozen votes, but then they recounted and he won by eight votes in a state where he was outspent. But he worked the hardest in Iowa.
He visited all 99 counties. He spent days and days, weeks and weeks there. Didn't have the resources that Mitt Romney had and some of the other candidates, but he did really well. And now he's done well yesterday, so I suspect he has got some staying power.
My own gut tells me right now that all four of these candidates, Brooke, they're going to stay in this race for the time being. They're not going anywhere.
Ron Paul has said to me on a few occasions, if he were to drop out, he'd have a rebellion, because so many of his supporters would be so angry. They're so devoted and strong supporters of his.
Last night, Newt Gingrich said to me, point blank, he thinks this could go all the way to the convention at the end of August in Tampa. Santorum is coming on the heels of a big win like this. Mitt Romney is not going anywhere.
This thing could go on for several more months.
BALDWIN: Also, though, whether or not it fully goes on or not all the way until the end of August, there's a lot of talk about this enthusiasm gap and the GOP turnout. It's down 10 percent from the 2008 primary season.
What does your gut say about that to you?
BLITZER: That's a huge problem potentially for the Republicans because they're really not showing up in the kind of numbers in some of these states that they did four years ago. And if they want to really get out of that base, that Republican conservative base -- they got them out in 2010 when they took control of the House, had major gains in the Senate, it was a big win for the Republicans, in part thanks to the Tea Party movement -- they've really got to energize that base.
So far, these four candidates, the four finalists, they're not totally energizing that Republican base right now. We'll see what they can do in the coming weeks and months. But that's potentially a serious problem for the Republicans.
BALDWIN: All right, Wolf Blitzer. Thank you, sir. We'll chat next hour.
BLITZER: Thank you.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
BALDWIN: Now this --
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He sent several e-mails saying stuff about how to handle his property or something, how to cancel utilities. I don't know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That voice, that's the sister of Jason Powell in a 911 call. He's the father accused of using a hatchet on his own two young boys and setting his home on fire.
Up next, we're going to hear more from that harrowing 911 call and another from the social worker involved in the case.
Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The people who owned the house that Josh Powell blew up with him and his two young boys inside, they said they don't want to rebuild there because, quoting them, they say "it's just evil."
Well, now we have a bit of a clearer picture of what exactly happened minutes before this evil played out. The Pierce County Sheriff's Department has now released the 911 calls about this double murder suicide.
In one you're going to hear the social worker who had taken the boys, this was a court-mandated visit, taken little Braden and Charlie to their father's Washington home just this past Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: I'd like to pull out of the driveway because I smell gasoline and he won't let me in.
UNIDENTIFIED 911: You want to pull out of the driveway because you smell gasoline, but he won't let you --
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WOKKER: I smell -- he won't let me in.
UNIDENTIFIED 911: He won't let you out of the driveway?
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: He won't let me in the house. It's his house and he won't let me in. It's a supervised visit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So that was just a portion. In entirety, the call is just about 7 minutes. It's frustrating to hear knowing now they had mere minutes to save those boys inside.
That social worker spends more than a minute fumbling to find the address and sounds frustrated just trying to make the dispatcher understand just the sheer urgency of the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: I don't know what the address is.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: That's pretty important for me to know.
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: I'm sorry, I can't -- just a minute. Let me get in my car and see if I can find it. Nothing like this has ever happened before. These visitations so I'm really shocked, and I can hear one of the kids crying, but he still wouldn't let me in. OK, how long will it be?
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: I don't know, ma'am. They have to respond to emergency, life-threatening situations first.
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: Well, listen, this could be life- threatening. He went to court on Wednesday and he didn't get his kids back. I'm afraid for their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I'm afraid for their lives, she says. She also tells him of Powell's notoriety, but doesn't get into the details that Powell was suspected in the disappearance of his wife, Susan, three years ago.
So somewhere between 5 and 7 minutes later, that home went up in flames. Another 911 dispatcher calls the social worker back. She's frantic informing the dispatcher there is a family inside.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: It exploded. Yes, it exploded the house.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Ma'am, do you know the exact address of his house?
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: It's 8119 189th Street, Court East in Puyallup.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Do you know if there's anyone in the house?
UNIDENTIFIED SOCIAL WORKER: Yes, there was a man and two children. I just dropped off the children and he won't let me in the door.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: OK, stay on the line for the fire department. OK, I'm going to get them on the line. Do not hang up. Hold on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Before the flames, another 911 call came in, this time from Josh Powell's sister. She feared for Josh after she received what she called weird messages.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALINA POWELL: I'm terrified to drive over there.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Well, we're sending an officer there, but I just need to know where we're going. We're not asking you to make contact with him. We'll have the officer do that.
POWELL: I'm not afraid of him, he'd never hurt me. I'm afraid of seeing something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Charlie and Braden Powell will be buried Saturday. In the meantime, investigators say they plan to speak farther with Josh Powell's father, Steven, about the disappearance of Susan. Again, she's been missing for three years.
Birth control is strictly forbidden in the Catholic Church, but now a new policy being implemented by the Obama administration has Catholics upset along with some huge named Republicans.
Coming up next, we're going to tell you how that policy affects Catholic hospitals and universities. Stay right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: When it comes to the beliefs of the Catholic Church, there really is no wiggle room. The Vatican believes birth control goes against the will of God, and that is that.
So it's no wonder that the church is dead set against this new Obama administration policy, the rule for Catholic hospitals and universities to provide contraception in employee health plans.
Republicans on the campaign trail say it is an all out war. While congressional Republicans are threatening action.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: If the president does not reverse the department's attack on religious freedom, then the Congress acting on behalf of the American people and the constitution that we'll swear to uphold and defend must.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I want to bring in Steve Schneck. He is the director of the Institute of Policy Research and Catholic Studies for Catholic University of America in Washington.
He has also advised President Obama on a number of matters before, but not on this birth control issue specifically. So Steve, nice to meet you here. I understand you have some real problems with this policy.
STEVE SCHNECK, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF AMERICA: That's right, Brooke, I do. You know, in essence what the administration's policy here is asking Catholic administrators of various institutions, charities, hospitals, universities, schools, you know, to go against their conscience, to go against their faith. And the first amendment protects that.
BALDWIN: You talk about Catholics going against their faith, but I know churches are exempt from this, but who would be affected when you talk about employers, you say universities and hospitals, but those employees are not all necessarily Catholics or even Christians, for that matter, so why don't they deserve the equal protection.
SCHNECK: You know, it's kind of like when you go to a Jewish deli, you don't expect pork chops. It's the same sort of thing here. That is the employees that have decided to be part of these universities, part of these hospitals, part of these charities and so forth. They know what they're getting into when they sign up for employment there.
BALDWIN: You advised the president. What do you think is behind his push for this new rule and why risk angering Catholics and other Christians over it, do you think?
SCHNECK: I'm absolutely convinced that the president is very serious about his commitment to women's health, especially in this regard and I'm all for that. In fact, I think there are a number of easy fixes that are possible for this situation that can save face for the administration and work to secure conscience rights here for these administrators.
BALDWIN: But when you look at these numbers, I'm going to quote a recent poll, about three-quarters, three quarters, Steve, of Catholic women disagree with the church's ban on birth control.
SCHNECK: Right.
BALDWIN: Doesn't that in and of itself indicate a risk within the church on this very issue?
SCHNECK: You know, it's actually not about birth control, it really is about conscience. And yes, the vast majority of American Catholic women practice birth control, or at least have practiced it in the course of their lives.
But that's not really the issue here. The issue here is whether the government should force Catholic officials for these organizations, priests, nuns and so forth, to go against their faith. And that's the issue. It's really not about contraception.
BALDWIN: And I guess partially along that same vein, if the new policy were to stop even one abortion, I imagine that would mean something to the church.
SCHNECK: Absolutely. Every life is, of course, from the church's perspective, utterly sacred.
BALDWIN: We all saw -- this story really percolated last week. Susan G. Komen/Planned Parenthood backlash that really boil down to women's rights. Is the Catholic Church prepared for that kind of backlash over something like this?
SCHNECK: You know, I'm not in the position to speak for the Catholic Church generally, but my sense, watching the bishops and the way that they're gearing up for this, you know, to protect conscience rights here, I think they're prepared to make a long campaign in this regard.
And it's something if the president is concerned about the Catholic vote in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado and Florida, something that the president should think about in regards to his re- election possibilities.
BALDWIN: We heard Jay Carney recently saying and I'm quoting him, "There are ways to I think help resolve this issue." So we'll see where this goes, right. Steve Schneck, thank you so much, former -- Washington.
From the Penn State child rape scandal to the teacher-child abuse cases in California, it seems like we are just inundated with horrific stories involving sexual assault. We have parents, neighbors, and investigators, but we rarely hear from the victims themselves.
So coming up, we're going to speak to a woman who not only survived many years of sexual abuse at the hands of a family member, but also fought back. Hear her story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Right now, I want to focus on how we can do better for our children is the topic. I feel very passionate about, something we talk about pretty often on this show.
And just yesterday we were talking to a member of the CDC and they have recently put a number on child abuse costs in the United States. That number is $124 billion. I know you're wondering, how did they get to that number?
They added up all the psychological services, the lost productivity, et cetera of all these children victimized or killed by child abuse in one year where they chose that was 2008.
But I want to take this a step further now and talk about the true cost of child abuse with a survivor turned advocate for children.
In her first book, "Stolen Innocence," she talks about how an older cousin sexually abused her for years. Erin is good enough to join me from Chicago.
Erin, I just want to start with two little words. Two little words that meant a lot for you, those two words being "I'm sorry" coming from this abuser. Why was that so significant for you?
ERIN MERRYN, AUTHOR, STOLEN INNOCENCE: It was for me, you know, a moment in my life to find my voice and realize for so many years I held onto so much anger and hatred toward this person that hurt me.
I realized in order to move on and let go of that toxic, poison, anger, bitterness and move forward with my life, I had to forgive this person.
And when that apology came, it was like this aha moment for me where I realized, I can reclaim my voice. My innocence was stolen, my trust was taken, but I still had the rest of my life ahead of me and I could do something positive with it.
BALDWIN: Look what you've done, Erin's Law. I just want to offer you a congratulations coming up on the one-year anniversary of Erin's Law being signed by Governor Quinn in Illinois. What exactly does the law do?
MERRYN: The law educates kids through age-appropriate curriculum. In elementary schools, preschool through fifth grade on safe touch, unsafe touch, safe secrets, unsafe secrets, how to get away, how to tell today.
We had programs in school that taught us there the eight ways on how to say no to drugs. As I say to lawmakers, we teach kids there. We teach kids tornado drills, bus drills, fire drills.
We teach them nothing on the power to speak up if somebody has ever violated them in any way. So basically, we're giving perpetrators control for silencing these children.
BALDWIN: Forgive me for interrupting, but can you just be more specific when you talk about age-appropriate curriculum. Are you talking through books, through dolls, and how can our kids learn these lessons so young?
MERRYN: Well, there is a task force that's been working on studying for the past year since Governor Quinn signed this law, and there's age-appropriate curriculum, tons of stuff out there from one end of the country to the other that teaches kids through role plays, through books, through crafts, through songs.
Basically teaching kids different lesson plans on how to speak up, how to find their voice, on how to tell somebody if somebody has violated them, and to keep talking because so often kids do go tell a parent, do tell somebody, and they're not believed and that door is closed in their face.
BALDWIN: Had you or had you felt like you had these tools as a youngster that you would have had the strength to speak up and say no?
MERRYN: Definitely. I was drilled in my head over and over and over again about stranger danger. And I wrote in my diary as a little kid after being abused. They teach us not to answer the door when your parents aren't home.
Don't talk to strangers. They don't warn us about our own family. So the only message I was being given was from the perpetrators. This is our little secret, no one will believe you, you have no proof and you get brainwashed to keep quiet, and that's exactly what it did to me.
BALDWIN: The onus also falls, Erin, you know, on parents and also we did a segment on the show. It's called "We Can Do Better." We as neighbors and cousins and brothers and you know, teachers, we need to be aware and look out if a child is acting out asked you with me?
MERRYN: Yes, definitely. We definitely need people to be alert because they put blinders on. They don't think this is going on. I guarantee this is going on in your own backyard.
If there are people out there listening to us thinking they cannot relate to this subject, I guarantee you, you know somebody, somebody's child, quite possibly a child very close to you, maybe your own, that has been abused.
BALDWIN: I want to give a final question for you. Just one piece of advice for parents watching, when their kids come home from school today, what one thing should they share with their kids?
MERRYN: Talk to their kids, sit down and teach them, you know, whether it's the kids when you're bathing them, whether they have their swimsuits on, teaching them their private parts belong to them.
And if anybody touches them in their private areas, you tell somebody. You tell mommy and daddy. Creating that safe list with kids on who that safe person is they can go to and tell if somebody ever does something, to use your voice, empowering kids with their voice.
BALDWIN: Erin Merryn, you are a brave young woman. Congratulations on Erin's Law once again. Thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.
MERRYN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Now this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look at the end of that gun. It looked as big as a baseball bat. It could be a .22 and it looked like a .45.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're staring right at it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you're staring down the barrel and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: That's a victim of David Gatlin, one of the convicted killers pardoned by former Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour. Tomorrow, the state Supreme Court will be considering the legality of all these pardons, but where exactly were all these people pardoned by Barbour? We go on the hunt for David Gatlin, next.
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BALDWIN: In Mississippi, another showdown is looming over the pardons and releases of hundreds of convicted criminals. I know you know this one.
Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour pardoned more than 200 as he left office including convicted murderers. Once released, several of them just up and disappeared and a nationwide manhunt ensued.
Well, tomorrow the Mississippi Supreme Court takes up the pardons at issue. Did Barber follow the law and provide proper public notice for those close to the crimes and the criminals? This is an open and shot case. Ed Lavandera reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the moment David Gatlin was pardoned and walked away from the Mississippi governor's mansion about a month ago, Randy Walker hasn't stopped thinking about where the man who shot him might be.
RANDY WALKER, SHOOTING VICTIM: His image is forever burned in my head. I'll never -- he can do disguise himself, do whatever, I still see him.
LAVANDERA: Gatlin was sentenced to life in prison for murdering his estranged wife while she clutched their baby and then shooting Walker in the head. The image of Gatlin pointing the gun at his face still hunts Randy Walker.
(on camera): Is it an image that never goes away?
WALKER: Yes, you see the end of that barrel, I mean, I say the end of that gun. It was, you know, as big as a baseball bat. It looked huge when you're standing there. You know, it could be a 22. It looks like a 45.
LAVANDERA: You're staring right at it.
WALKER: Yes, staring right down the barrel and knowing there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): David Gatlin appears willing to participate in the legal battle that will decide if the criminal records of Gatlin and some 200 other will be wiped clean by Governor Haley Barbour's controversial pardon.
Since Gatlin and three other killers who had worked as inmate trustees at the governor's mansion, were released from custody, Mississippi officials have tracked their whereabouts to offer comfort to those victims stung by news of the pardons.
Joseph Ozment left Mississippi. He's now living in Wyoming and his lawyer says he has no intentions of coming back and David Gatlin left the state too.
(on camera): We're looking for David Gatlin. We're told he lives here in this neighborhood, and I think we've come to the area where he may be.
(voice-over): We found Gatlin in this neighborhood near Birmingham, Alabama. When we knocked on the door, we didn't expect to see a man named Ernest Jackson who says his Gatlin's friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's always somebody calling for blood. Ask me anything you want.
LAVANDERA (on camera): So you don't think David is still a dangerous guy?
ERNEST JACKS, PARDONED KILLER'S FRIEND: Hell, no. No. I really don't. I believe that forgiveness is the heart of Christianity and because all people make mistakes, especially in crimes of passion.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Jacks says he met David Gatlin in the years before the murders and is helping Gatlin get back on his feet. He says Gatlin spends his days inside his home praying and playing the guitar. And Jacks isn't shy to say he will defend Gatlin from anyone who comes around causing trouble.
JACKS: I told him that he had a home here, and if anybody tried to mess with him, I'd whip their ass. And so that's basically the way it boils down.
LAVANDERA (on camera): So you're protecting him, basically, at this point?
JACKS: Yes.
LAVANDERA: You don't seem like the type of guy that would go around beating them up?
JACKS: Well, that was when I was younger, you see, but I don't take -- from anybody.
LAVANDERA: So we don't need to wear out our welcome?
JACKS: You're fine because you're civil and you're talking.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): We kept trying, but Ernest Jacks never gave us a chance to talk to David Gatlin. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Near Birmingham, Alabama.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALWIN: Ed Lavandera, thanks for trying. In the meantime, someone is in Newt Gingrich's backyard in Georgia today, that being Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney.
Just spoke to reporters actually at the Atlanta airport. He says he's not worried about losing last night's caucuses and primaries. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator McCain, you know, after I think winning Florida, he went on to lose, I don't know, 17 or 18 contests after that, but was able to put the delegates together by focusing on the process of gathering delegates as we will.
Their base state is coming up with a lot of delegates. We'll compete actively there. As you know, we didn't devote a lot of money and time to the states yesterday.
We were spending our time and money in Florida and Nevada, and Senator Santorum took a different course, left Florida, left Nevada and went to the other states, and he was able to reap the rewards of that approach.
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