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Interview With Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann; Catholic Suit Over Contraception Rule; Crisis in Syria; New Alzheimer's Treatment Being Tested; Interview With JCPenney CEO Ron Johnson

Aired February 09, 2012 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right, everyone. Thanks for joining us here on CNN. It is the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon. Brooke is off today.

We will begin with a developing story. This afternoon, the first lawsuit by a Catholic group has been filed against the Obama administration's new birth control mandate. The rule requires religious-run services like hospitals and universities to provide contraceptives for employees through their health care provider.

EWTN, which is a Catholic television network, filed suit today in Alabama calling the mandate unconstitutional.

I want to bring in Michael Warsaw no the phone. He is the president of EWTN.

Michael, thank you for joining us. Explain the basis behind this lawsuit, will you?

MICHAEL WARSAW, PRESIDENT, EWTN: Sure.

First and foremost, EWTN is a Catholic entity. Our mission statement makes it very clear that we are Catholic in our identity and every employee who comes here realizes that and recognizes that.

The recent mandate by the Department of Health and Human Services requires EWTN, which has been in existence as a Catholic television and media network for over 30 years, to really violate our conscience, to go against the very things that we have been proclaiming and teaching to people for 30 years about the Catholic Church.

Under this mandate, the government is forcing EWTN to make a choice. Either we provide our employees coverage for contraception, sterilization and abortion-inducing drugs and we violate our conscience or we offer our employees and their families no health insurance coverage at all, which is not an acceptable choice either, and if we do that, the government then imposes fines upon us as much as $600,000 in our case.

So, we really believe that we had no other choice but to turn to the courts and ask the courts really to review this matter, and to ask them to look at this really as a matter of religious liberty. LEMON: OK, Mr. Warsaw, do you employ people who aren't Catholic? And the reason I'm asking that, because there are many who would say why shouldn't people who are not Catholic in your employ, why wouldn't they be entitled to the same benefits they'd get if they worked for a competitor that's not faith-based?

WARSAW: Sure.

We do indeed employ non-Catholics. We have 340 full-time employees. And of those, probably one-third are not Catholic. But as I mentioned, in our mission statement, we are clearly, unabashedly Catholic. When people come to work for EWTN, they don't need to be Catholic themselves but they need to understand that's who we are. That's our identity. Our values, our values as an organization, as a company are intimately and completely tied to what the Catholic Church teaches.

So when people come in the door, they understand that. They expect that. I think there's no question that if people wish to gain access to birth control, contraceptive medications and so forth and procedures, that's readily available.

The federal government already in the state of Alabama funds more than 80 clinics, 80 locations where people can go and either receive free or low-cost contraceptives. So they're readily available. This is not about access in our view, about access those services. Those are readily available. This is about forcing in this case a religious faith-based organization to acquiesce to procedures and using its donor funds...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Michael Warsaw, that's going to have to be the last word because we're out of time. We have to move on. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN. Thank you very much.

Syrian government forces have slaughtered scores more people in the country's largest city. The Syrian opposition puts the death toll at more than 100 today in the surrounded city of Homs. The government says it is targeting armed militants, but the opposition says the dead today include 10 children. It also is accusing the government of attacking homes and hospitals.

Let's listen to this account from inside the city. It's from a Syrian activist who goes by the name of Danny.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANNY, SYRIAN ACTIVIST: This is one of the narrow streets in Baba Amr.

They just hit us with mortar bombs and tank shells and rockets. You can see (INAUDIBLE) in the buildings. These are all civilian houses. You can see on the ground, you can see how the rockets have landed here. There's more than seven people dead just in this street, women, children, men. You can see the whole street. The bodies are in there. There's bodies in that house, pieces of bodies in that house.

This is a civilian house. It has left civilians dead. The pieces of bodies are still in here. These are bodies. These are civilian bodies. These are civilian bodies. This isn't the army. These are children, men, women being killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joining us now from New York, Fareed Zakaria of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

Straight off the top here, does this small rebel force in Syria stand any chance against the powerful Syrian armed forces?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: It doesn't seem that they have much of a chance because the regime has decided to be utterly brutal.

This is a regime that decided -- that looked at Gadhafi and that looked at Mubarak and said the lesson is don't waver, don't show any weakness and just grind them down. The one problem they face is the regime is not an oil-rich regime, it's not like Saudi Arabia. It can't bribe its people. It doesn't have that kind of ability even to bribe the army.

Eventually, they're going to face real cash shortfalls. And what that means going forward is a really interesting question. This is not a regime that can outlive the sanctions and all this pressure unendingly. They have got one source of cash right now, Iran. And that too is drying up.

LEMON: We are hearing, Fareed, calls here and there to arm the Syrian rebels. I want you to put yourself, if you will, in the shoes of the president of the United States. What would you do?

ZAKARIA: I think it would be a very risky move and I wouldn't do it. I will tell you why.

Firstly, this is geographically a difficult place. It's landlocked. You don't have the kind of access you had in Libya. In Libya, you had -- the country sort of got divided into two parts. There was an eastern part with Benghazi easily suppliable from the sea. You had rebels who set up a capital there. They created a transitional government. And you could funnel arms and money to them through Egypt and through the Mediterranean. None of that is available in Syria.

In addition, the Chinese and Russians are dead set against this. So it couldn't happen through the U.N. There would be effectively a kind of unilateral or NATO operation with no international legitimacy. And finally, the odds of success are frankly not that high. This is a still a regime very much in control, no real defections from the army, no defections from the intelligence service. There's no point in doing something noble and failing. I would be very, very reluctant to advocate an American intervention.

LEMON: You mentioned the surrounding areas, the neighbors there. But how will the outcome -- I want you to talk more about that -- how will the outcome in Syria affect its neighbors, Iraq and what about Syria's ally Iran?

ZAKARIA: If you assume what's going to happen is a slow-motion either civil war or collapse of the regime over the next year or two, the biggest loser here is Iran.

Iran is all-in in Syria. It has made a huge number of bets on the regime. It is supporting the regime. And as it unravels, it faces the prospect of the loss of an ally, the loss of a buffer. The Russians don't look too good. But frankly, nobody looks very good because you're going to having low-grade chaos and instability in the region. Everyone's going to get worried.

The great danger is that this becomes, Syria becomes a battleground for the forces of Iran, Iranian proxies with the Syrian regime and the forces of Saudi Arabia, which will tend to be Sunni, somewhat religiously motivated militias that will go in, in the name of God and in the name of jihad to overturn the Assad regime.

A sort of play of what happened in Iraq might take place in Syria. Remember in Iraq, it took a decade before it stabilized. And there were 140,000 American troops helping stabilize it. This could get very messy for very long.

LEMON: And, Fareed, as you know, the Russians are being accused of giving aid and comfort to President Bashar al-Assad and to giving a green light for this slaughter that is occurring in Homs. What's the Russians' motivation here?

ZAKARIA: The Russians have always been very, very reluctant to have the U.N. be used as an instrument to get rid of the regimes. They have an alliance with the Syrians. It's really their last Cold War alliance.

If you think about it, the Soviet Union used to support half these Middle Eastern countries. We used to support the other half. The Soviet collapsed. They're left with Syria. Syria is the one Russian ally. I think some of it is that.

But finally, remember, if the U.N. is allowed to intervene every time you see mass protests on the street, claiming that a regime is undemocratic, they have got protests going on in Moscow right now, they have got protests taking place all over Russia, and the last thing the Russians want to do is establish some kind of international principle that when you have protests against an undemocratic regime, the U.N. Security Council can vote to intervene in some way or the other.

LEMON: Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much for your time.

Make sure you tune into "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" every Sunday on CNN, 10:00 a.m., 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Now this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought you would be interested in knowing that running for president of the United States is really one series of humiliations after another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You know what? She has a sense of humor, because that was tongue in cheek. Michele Bachmann opens up about her gaffes on the campaign trail, this as conservatives gather in D.C. to fire up the base and choose one of these four guys to challenge the president come November.

Up next, the congresswoman joins me live. I'm going to ask her about the news breaking a short time ago, the first Catholic lawsuit filed in the fight against President Obama over birth control. Don't miss it a few minutes away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The 2012 presidential campaign just won't have been the same without her. We know that. Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, she exited the race right after the Iowa caucuses last month, but she's still a force. She's speaking at the CPAC conference this afternoon about the lessons she learned on campaign trail. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BACHMANN: Running for president of the United States is really one series of humiliations after another.

(LAUGHTER)

BACHMANN: But it's also a very educational experience. And I learned three things when I was running for president. First of all, I learned where John Wayne was born. That's very important.

(LAUGHTER)

BACHMANN: And then second, I learned the day that Elvis Presley was born. These are vital issues to our republic.

And, third, I learned never forget the three things that you learn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, we're going to ask her the answers to those questions. I'm just kidding. We're not going to do that.

Congresswoman Michele Bachmann joins me now. (LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you so much.

So, listen, now, you know the reality of running for president now. Recently, you said that you were the perfect candidate, and America missed its chance. Are you sorry that you got out when you did?

BACHMANN: Well, of course, that was tongue in cheek when I said that. But I also think that I was the clear conservative choice in the race. Now, that's all behind us at this point.

But it was a marvelous experience to be able to run. I ran because of what was going on in the country. I laid everything on the line. I suited up for the battle. It won't be me on the ticket, but I'm going to remain in the battle, because, Don, I'm running again for my House seat in the House of Representatives because the battle continues.

LEMON: Yes. Another reason I ask you that is because this race has been up and down. And even sometimes Rick Santorum was below you in the polls at certain times. Mitt Romney is using your ex-debate coach that you used for a while. And it seems like he's doing a lot better. At least he was before Florida. So it's got to make you feel like maybe he is stealing from your playbook maybe a bit?

BACHMANN: Well, I know that I made a very important contribution to this race because when I got in, we had candidates saying that they were going to issue an executive order to get rid of Obamacare or say that they would issue waivers to get rid of Obamacare. Now there's only one right answer when it comes to the government takeover of health care, and it's full-scale repeal.

Not only that. On Dodd-frank, it's the same thing. I'm the chief author of those bills. But also we have seen I think a very strong embrace of national security policy. I was the only candidate in the race, Don, that had current national security experience. I sit on the House Intelligence Committee. I think now more than ever with the segment that you just showed with all that is happening in Syria, these are very trying times.

And our next commander in chief has to be up and ready for the job. It's very important.

LEMON: And your speech at CPAC was really all about foreign policy. And you mentioned here health care. And I want to talk to you about the first lawsuit filed a by Catholic organization that just happened, EWTN, which is a Christian network, just filed the first lawsuit in Alabama. What do you make of that?

BACHMANN: Well, this is exactly what I warned.

I filed, again, the legislation to repeal Obamacare because the argument was what we're seeing is the federal government is not only taking over health care. They're also taking over our religious decisions, our personal moral decisions. This is outrageous to have a president of the United States tell a religious organization that they have to violate their freedom of religion and their conscience to be in conformity with the president's view of either religion or morality.

That's wrong. That's completely unconstitutional, against our First Amendment. And that's why I think President Obama clearly will be overturned on this area because this will come before the courts. I don't know how the courts could possibly find this constitutional.

LEMON: And this has been debated back and forth in the media. We know your stance on the president's health care program. I don't think it's worth talking about it anymore.

So let's move on now and talk about...

BACHMANN: Well, let me just add one thing, Don, that is also very important, because Obamacare is the social engineering playground of the left.

LEMON: Go ahead.

BACHMANN: That's really what it's going to become. You're going to continue to see a lot of these social battles played out under the realm and under the legal authority of Obamacare at the federal government level. So, again, it's the federal government...

LEMON: But, see, here's the thing.

BACHMANN: ... that will be taking over not only our health care, but morals and religion too.

LEMON: I wanted to move on.

BACHMANN: This is where the battles will happen in Obamacare.

LEMON: I wanted to move on. But I want to talk about then -- if you're talking about social issues, which you are continuing here, as far as social issues go, most polling will show and if you talk to most Americans, they say, you know what? I'm not really that concerned about social issues. What I care about is the economy and I care about jobs.

Yet, you see someone who is running on social issues like Rick Santorum who's doing pretty well in the last couple of caucuses and primaries. So then what gives here? If the economy and jobs, if that's more important, then why this focus on social issues and why is it that people are coming out to support Rick Santorum on social issues?

BACHMANN: Well, you're asking a great question because we saw a profound change in the electorate, the Republican primary electorate when they came out this week.

And I think clearly it's bad news for President Obama. That's really what this says, because voters have been looking at jobs. Like you said, they look at national security. But because of what the president I think fatally -- made a fatal mistake when he made this decision regarding the Roman Catholic Church.

I think that this struck a chord with the American people. And that's why they sent a very strong signal, because they're recognizing these issues are important. People do vote their values when they go into the voting booth. I think that's what you saw the result with Rick Santorum. But also I think the voters haven't made up their mind yet about which candidate they're going to embrace.

And so depending on the issue that comes up that particular week, I think you see sometimes a varied result at the ballot box.

LEMON: I just want to move on because of time here, Congresswoman. So, listen, would you be open to running on the ticket as vice president or taking a Cabinet position?

BACHMANN: Well, that isn't something that I have been approached about. That's not something I'm looking at. I'm looking at the battle.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Would you consider it?

BACHMANN: Well, right now, what I'm planning to do is be a part of the team, the team that is going to make sure that Barack Obama is a one-termer. I'm not looking at position. I'm looking at the battle. And the battle has to be won. That's what I'm looking at.

And that's why I gave my foreign policy speech today because I truly believe that Barack Obama has been one of the most -- had some of the most devastating national security policy of any president in modern time. And that's another reason why I believe he shouldn't have a second term.

LEMON: We're out of time, but, Congresswoman, thank you so much, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann.

BACHMANN: Don, thank you. Thank you, Don.

LEMON: I want you to listen up if you own a house, if you're selling it or thinking about buying one. A huge deal has been reached that will give cash to some homeowners. Find out who is paying up and why.

Plus, I want you to take a look at this. A guy on the run from police corners himself on a roof. This standoff is happening right now. And you will hear how officers are trying to get him down. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The nation's five largest lenders promised today to make good by struggling homeowners. Among other wrongdoing, they are accused of cutting corners to speed foreclosures. These are the lenders, J.P. Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Bank of America and Allied Financial, which was formerly GMAC.

In this deal announced at the Justice Department today, the lenders agree to back a fund worth $26 billion to help struggling homeowners reduce their principal balance and to help them refinance at lower mortgage rates.

Some of that money will go to state government pay direct aid to struggling homeowners. Attorney General Eric Holder said today this is not the end of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Let me be very clear on this. While today's agreement resolves certain civil claims based on mortgage loan servicing activities, it does not prevent state and federal authorities from pursuing criminal enforcement actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: To the White House we go now and our chief White House correspondent, Jessica Yellin.

Hi, Jessica.

Is the Obama administration claiming credit for this?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Sure they are. And they did work hard to get this deal done.

In fact, they pressed attorneys general for a year or two to cut a deal that a lot of attorneys general, Don, resisted because they thought it went too easy on the banks and a lot of attorneys general got the carve-out that you just heard the attorney general of the United States bragging about.

So, there was a lot of the negotiating going on. Here is how the president took the victory lap a little earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Under the terms of this settlement, America's biggest banks, banks that were rescued by taxpayer dollars, will be required to right these wrongs. That means more than just paying a fee. These banks will put billions of dollars towards relief for families across the nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YELLIN: ... make this deal a lot tougher on the banks than it initially would have been, Don.

LEMON: Listen, the housing market is in terrible fix right now. This is one thing. Jessica, does the administration expect that this could finally help end the housing market crisis?

YELLIN: Yes, but help.

LEMON: Help.

YELLIN: It is a piece of the puzzle because it won't solve the big picture, and it's just one step to sort of giving some stability on the bank side.

But, as a homeowner, this isn't necessarily going to solve -- it will some problems for some homeowners, but not the overwhelming majority of all homeowners.

LEMON: Kind of every little bit helps sort of strategy. Let's hope this helps something.

YELLIN: And there are lots of little pieces they're trying, yes.

LEMON: Jessica Yellin, appreciate it.

YELLIN: Thanks.

(NEWS BREAK)

LEMON: Up next here on CNN: word of a dramatic breakthrough.

Are you listening?

A dramatic breakthrough in the fight against Alzheimer's disease -- what scientists have just discovered in their efforts to find a cure.

Elizabeth Cohen standing by with the news that's just in.

Don't miss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This one is very important to whole lot of people, word of a dramatic breakthrough in the fight against Alzheimer's. And CNN's speaks to the victim of violent beating. It's time now to play "Reporter Roulette".

We're going to begin with a cancer drug that may be the next thing, the next thing in treating Alzheimer's. A study released in just the past hour shows incredible reversal of the disease in mice.

I want to turn now to CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen tells us all about it. Elizabeth, when you hear about a break- through in Alzheimer's, everybody perks up.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everybody get freaks because everybody knows someone with Alzheimer's.

LEMON: Everyone's today, grandmother and cousin. So, how promising is this? COHEN: You know the researchers I've been talking to this afternoon are genuinely excited about this. They said that what they saw was promising but they offered this huge caveat, this is mice. We have cured Alzheimer's in mice before and it didn't end up working out in humans.

But this time they really hope there is some promise. And the reason is that they got very dramatic results or one of the reasons is that they got very dramatic results with mice. And I'm going to show you a picture.

LEMON: OK.

COHEN: So, when they gave this to mice, their memories improved. I know these pictures look weird and I'm going to explain.

LEMON: Within a short amount of time.

COHEN: Within 72 hours. That's a great point. So see how there are a bunch of tissue papers all over that cage on left?

LEMON: Yes, ma'am.

COHEN: So, researchers put them there. And what a normal mouse does instinctively is they put them in a corner and form a nest. Alzheimer's mice, mice with Alzheimer's like the one in the cage on the left, they don't know what to do with them. They see these tissues. They don't know what to do with them. They can't remember they're supposed to make a nest.

When they gave that mouse this drug, this cancer drug, within 72 hours they knew how to make a nest.

LEMON: But just because it works in mice.

COHEN: Does not.

LEMON: Does that mean -- it doesn't mean it can work in a human. Does that mean this promising drug is going to hit the market because you know where I'm going with this? When might it be available?

COHEN: Can I get this for my grandmother. I mean, what's interesting is this drug is actually on the market now for cancer. But the researcher I talked to said, don't try this at home. Don't give this to grandma with Alzheimer's right now because it may actually hurt her and it may not help. But they're testing it quickly because this drug is already on the market. Within a couple months, they'll try to (inaudible).

LEMON: Well, that's what I mean by hitting the market because although, it sound and you may not use the dosage may be different.

COHEN: Right.

LEMON: You may use it in different increments. That's what I mean, so you can't use it in that way. So -- COHEN: You sure shouldn't try. It is on the market for cancer. You don't want to use for Alzheimer's it right now. And it could take years before they know this is safe and effective for Alzheimer's patients. But it certainly - you know, they said it was very serendipitous that this cancer drug turned out to work for Alzheimer's in mice.

LEMON: And as you know, as senior medical correspondent, a lot of cures, a lot of drugs that weren't supposed to use that happened just by chance.

COHEN: That's right.

LEMON: Viagra --

COHEN: Viagra was not supposed to be for what it's used for.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you very much, Elizabeth Cohen.

COHEN: Thanks.

LEMON: We appreciate it.

Next on "Reporter Roulette", we are going to talk with reporter George Howell. He is here in Atlanta.

George, you have spoken face to face with a young man who was brutally beaten on camera. All of his attackers yelled gay's slitters at him. Kicked at him with a tire, punched him. What did Brandon White tell you?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN REPORTER: Don, I talked to Brandon white about those first moments after he walks out of the store to an ambush waiting for him. And before you roll this video, I want to warn you at home, may want to the ask kids to leave the room.

This is the video and you see these men punching, kicking, laughing yelling derogatory comments. And in this surveillance video, you can see them throw a tire at him right there. Brandon White says after all that happened he basically walked away. He says those men ran away. I sat down with him to talk to him about those moments after the attack. And to talk to him about how he felt after realizing that that video was posted online. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON WHITE, BEATING VICTIM: Once I got out of there, you know, I realized I was safe at packed my things, I left. And once I seen it, you know, I'm not the type of person that cries for anything. Once I seen that, all emotions from anger to sad to embarrassed, all of that came out at once, and I cried. I cried like a baby. It was just embarrassing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: Don, basically, Brandon says his mother helped him get to the point where he was ready to speak publicly. And he says his plan now is to put the attention on these men, clearly they were brazen enough to post that video online. So now he is putting the attention on them with national exposure and the FBI looking for them.

LEMON: And sometimes we sanitize it. We don't want to say the "n" word or we don't want to say the word. But basically they were calling him the f word. You know what that means. It's--

HOWELL: Several times, laughing, through the whole thing.

LEMON: Saying no f words is here in this neighborhood and calling him that as they were kicking and stomping on him. It's incredible video, incredible story. Let's hope they get them. Thank you very much.

HOWELL: $10,000 reward for information.

LEMON: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Dramatic new video coming into CNN of a school bus on fire. Find out what happened to the kids and the driver. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This is incredible video. A school bus bursts into flame.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

LEMON: Goodness, just look at that fire. This is in Charlotte, North Carolina. The kids who were on the bus are all a-OK, that's according to our affiliate, WSOC. Witnesses get kudos to the bus driver because they say the bus driver unloaded the kids quickly when it started to smoke. And fire investigators say electrical wiring in the dashboard caused that fire.

Glad everybody's OK with that.

So as kids, we turn to a whole new set of teachers, custodians and lunch ladies. The first lawsuits are filed in the lode photo scandal rocking a Los Angeles Elementary School. Investigators have uncovered 200 more disgusting pictures of students in bondage allegedly taken by former third great teacher Mark Brandt.

Lawyers representing eight children are holding a news conference to announce they're filing a lawsuit. The L.A. teachers union is fighting the unprecedented permanent removal of the entire school staff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN FLETCHER, PRESIDENT, UNITED TEACHERS OF LOS ANGELES: You take away the faculty, the faculty who have done nothing who are being tarred, who are being stigmatized for no reason does not stabilize this community. LAUSD is making a tragic, tragic situation worse and traumatizing every child in this school.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: About 200 parents and students protested the teachers' removal.

Up next, she is the new face of JCPenney, but a group of moms want Ellen DeGeneres fired because she's gay. Company's CEO is not only standing behind her. The former Apple guy is he making big changes at JCPenney to turn the brand around, including no more clearance sales.

There's Ron Johnson right there. He's standing by live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There has been a revolution in the retail world. The end of clearance sales at JCPenney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 55, 55, now 45. Got 45. Right there. Thank you, sir. 35, 35. I got 35. Now I'm going to bid 20. Got 20, yes, 20. Now $20. Sold. $20.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes, that's JCPenney as part of a new strategy to save the American brand that's been around for more than a century. Back in the day in the '70s, we would call it JCPenney, remember?

The man behind this hopeful turnaround, he is former Apple executive Ron Johnson. He joins us live from JCPenney headquarters in Plano, Texas. Thank you so much for joining us.

You can see there's a strategy behind this. It's now JCP. You've gone with the acronym, with letters. I see you have a twitter account. You just tweeted out something you were going to be on. So, you're moving now into the now and the future.

So -- but here's my question. Why get rid of clearance and everyday sales? Your competitors aren't doing it, Mr. Johnson.

RON JOHNSON, CEO, JCPENNEY COMPANY: Well, it's very simple. What I learned at Apple was if you put the customer first, things just turn out really well. You know, Apple worked really hard to design great products, great software. We made the store experience really wonderful where there were so many services for the customer.

As I came to JCPenney, and it became very obvious there was one fundamental flaw in the business model. And that was our pricing strategy. You know, we would intentionally mark things up at prices a customer would never buy at to create an artificial value through a sale. And I just thought that was wrong. We want to treat people with integrity. We want to treat people fairly and squarely. And I believe every day should be a great day to shop so the customer can shop on her terms and not ours.

LEMON: OK. So then --?

JOHNSON: So we're changing our pricing.

LEMON: And you say her terms. Her terms. You didn't say his terms. So, you are focused -- your strategy is focusing on women?

JOHNSON: Yes, well, you know, 80 percent of the people who shops you know in department stores are female. But obviously, we care about men and women. But the big idea here I think is that ultimately, everyone knows the right price. If you're walking through your closet today and look through and drive me to you r closet, you will be surprised you will remember not only where you bought it, about how much you paid for it and what day you bought it.

LEMON: Yes.

JOHNSON: And if the customer is that smart, there's no reason to play games. Let's give, him or her, the right price the first time so they can shop on their terms.

LEMON: Also, what you're doing too, you're going to create mini stores within your store which is kind like what a mall already is. And you saw, you know, some of the celebrities there. You're going to sell celebrity products as well in the store.

But, you know, I want to talk about one of the celebrities, and it's a controversy that has been everywhere. Recently a conservative parent group one million moms denounced JCPenney for selecting Ellen as the spokeswoman because she is gay. And Ellen - Ellen gave you a shot on it. I want you - I want to play some of them and then we will talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLEN DEGENERES, SPOKESPERSON, JCPENNEY: So, they wanted to get me fired. I'm proud and happy to say JCPenney stuck by their decision to make thee their spokesperson.

I would like to read just a few comments from the million moms' Facebook page on their page. This is on their page. And not that there's anyone counting, but for a group that calls themselves the million moms, they only have 40,000 members on their page. So they're rounding to the nearest million. And I get that.

Anyway, here are some of the comments that people have written on their Facebook page. The first one is, love Ellen and everything she stands for. I'm going to shop there more now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Ellen took them on. She took them on, so JCPenney publicly supported Ellen. What did you say to her?

JOHNSON: I just told Ellen this is the easiest decision I'll perhaps ever make. You know, I stand behind you. And our entire company stands behind Ellen because Ellen shares the values that are so deep to us. You know, 110 years ago, our company was founded and the name of the store was not JCPenney. It was actually the Golden Rule. And the whole idea was to treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. And Ellen personifies that as well as anybody in America today. She's honest. She's funny. She has great values. She treats people with integrity.

LEMON: Yes.

JOHNSON: And so when this issue came up, it was really an easy decision to stand squarely behind her.

LEMON: I got to ask you. I mean, you're a smart man. You have an MBA from Harvard. You went to Stanford. You knew what you are getting in to. You had to have anticipated pushback from some segment of the American population. You had to have known that.

JOHNSON: Yes, actually, you know, as we thought about having a spokesperson it was kind of interesting. Spokespeople aren't necessary to do good marketing. But when you're making dramatic change like we're doing here at JCPenney where we're basically rethinking everything, to have someone who's independent and uniquely thought of for their integrity, well, that could be a pretty great thing.

And as we looked at the landscape of American people that were well- known, Ellen was the only one we considered because I view her as being probably the highest integrity person that is in America today what's in a public figure. And so the chance to work with her was just perfect. And so that's what counts. That she's honorable, she's kind, she's funny. And she speaks on behalf of all of us.

LEMON: I have to ask you about a story reported recently about layoffs. President Obama recently asked that American business leaders to bring back jobs to the United States, Mr. Johnson. Have you taken that to heart at all, especially as it is being reported about layoffs at JCPenney this year and 4700 employees have been offered severance?

JOHNSON: What we're doing at Penny's is clearly as we change our business strategy, there will be some work that goes away and new work that needs to be done. And over time, we hope to be one of the great net adders of jobs in our country because we have to put America back to work. And that starts with a great business strategy and great results.

And so, I look forward to the next few years really adding a lot of employment in every state of the country where we have stores and here in Texas, as well.

LEMON: All right. Ron Johnson, thank you for your time.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: All right. Up next, real navy SEALs starring in a Hollywood thriller and there's backlash, after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Mr. Wolf Blitzer just a few minutes away. Hello, Wolf. He joins us with a preview. What do you have?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: We've got a live interview in the next hour with Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul. I tweeted earlier in the day asking my followers out there for some suggested questions. And as you know, Don, a lot of great questions came in. So we'll have an interview in the next hour with Ron Paul, plus all the day's political news. We are going to Syria, what's going on there as well. So, we have got a lot of news coming up over the next two hours, looking forward to that -- Don.

LEMON: Nothing as hard-hitting, Wolf, as my Kris Jenner interview about the Kardashians though.

BLITZER: I watched it. You were terrific.

LEMON: Thank you, Wolf. We'll see you in a bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 3, 2, 1 --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All clear!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It is an edge of your seat Hollywood thriller stars real Navy SEALs, but some aren't too happy about the movie or the secrets it reveals. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A Hollywood thriller about NAVY SEALs, but they aren't actors. Here's CNN's Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 3, 2, 1 --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All clear!

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The SEALs of bandito platoons are called into action.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know I will.

STARR: When a deadly terrorist plot against the U.S. is uncovered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a personnel recovery. Proceed to target. Recover the package and move to extract. STARR: It's an edge of your seat Hollywood thriller. But wait, those are real SEALs acting in "Act of Valor."

LIEUTENANT RORKE, ACTIVE-DUTY, U.S. NAVY SEAL: Everybody that was asked to participate said no. Everyone to them said no.

MIKE MCCOY, DIRECTOR: Initially all the guys turned us down. They weren't about making movies.

STARR: But director, Mike McCoy, convinced the Navy only SEALs could play SEALs.

MCCOY: When we started to see a brotherhood of men you didn't even know existed in the real world.

STARR: And together, they embarked on a 2 1/2 year production schedule.

(Inaudible) has been on classified film mission to all over the world. This movie is as close as you get to what he really does. The combat is actually the crew filming SEALs on training missions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nice if I could be here we're talking while addressing this threat. You see this guy move.

RORKE: It is extremely authentic. We were there at every turn with the production company and the directors during the filming of "Act of Valor." We could say this is the way it actually happens.

STARR: The movie is not without controversy. The Navy originally wanted to make a SEAL recruiting film. The crew shot hundreds of hours. And suddenly, it became a movie that never got the Pentagon's official stamp of approval. Navy officials say they know some will be critical of real commandos being used in a Hollywood thriller.

REAR ADMIRAL DENNIS MOYNIHAN, CHIEF, NAVY PUBLIC INFORMATION: It did not follow the typical approval process, but the Navy did support the film and the SEALs were involved with the film every step of the way.

STARR: But to keep their secrets, some camera angles were adjusted on weapons. Classified procedures left out, and there was a lighter side.

RORKE: We made fun of each other constantly. You know, you're running around trying to simulate combat, and you're going to take a fall and tumble and look silly. And that's now on camera, where you can get away with that on the battlefield, only your buddies see that. So it had some moments.

MCCOY: This is the most compelling, dynamic men we have ever met in our live, and were just humble good dudes, maybe you want to have a beer with and go surfing with, hang out.

STARR: And what about a real SEAL, becoming a real actor?

RORKE: If Clint Eastwood calls, I'm taking that phone call. STARR: Barbara Starr, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Barbara, thank you very much.

And before we go, a store surveillance camera captured a Georgia girl who literally kicked and scratched her way out a kidnapping.

Take a look at this video. Britney Baxter, 7-years-old. And look how the man in the video cannot keep his double-arm hold on her. He has to let her go. Police say this happened Wednesday while Britney's mom was just a few feet down the aisle. And Britney says the man started talking to her as she was looking at toys and then grabbed her and put his hand over her mouth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRITNEY BAXTER, 7-YEARS-OLD: Yes, I was just like kicked as hard as I can. He got to get away and tell somebody that you trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Britney, we're glad you're OK. And we want to tell you that police arrested this man, Thomas Woods, on an attempted kidnapping charge. It turns out he's on parole after serving time in prison for man slaughter. Woods denies he was in the store, but of course the videotape will show it all.

Again, glad he is under arrest, he did it and Britney is OK.

I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for watching. "SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer begins right now. Take it away, Wolf.

BLITZER: Don, thanks very much.