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Santorum, Romney Trade Fire At Debate; Gingrich, Paul Attack Frontrunners; Seven Dead In Marine Chopper Crash; Two Americans Killed in Koran Protest; Obama Apologizes To Karzai; Two Journalists Killed, Three Wounded In Syria; Steve Forbes Interview

Aired February 23, 2012 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: It is just at the top of the hour. Thanks for joining us.

We're talking about how they're battling out at the top of the polls and on the campaign trail this morning. So it's no surprise that Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum were trading fire at the CNN debate last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We came to the federal government asking for help on transportation and security. I was fighting for those things. Our games are successful. But while I was fighting to save the Olympics, you were fighting to save the bridge to nowhere.

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't go around bragging about something you have to do. Michael Dukakis balanced the budget for 10 years. Does that make him qualify to be president of the United States? I don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Our political director, Mark Preston, of course, was at the debate. And Mark, a lot of back and forth between these two, what do you think, which one did the best job at getting the message to the voters?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, tell you what, Kyra, you know, as I said, just a moment ago, it was a political knife fight here in Mesa, Arizona. And it was for many reasons.

This is the last debate or we think is the last debate, certainly before Super Tuesday. And then, you know, less than two weeks, 13 states are going to weigh in on this Republican presidential race.

I think we saw last night Mitt Romney is more comfortable being the hunter. He went right after Rick Santorum, the newest frontrunner in this race for the Republican presidential nomination and at times, I got to tell you, Kyra, Rick Santorum seemed uncomfortable.

Although I got to say he did hold his composure. He could have fallen apart a couple of times. He's taken criticism from Mitt Romney, but he had Ron Paul on his other side. And Ron Paul was unrelenting in his criticism saying that Rick Santorum wasn't an authentic conservative.

PHILLIPS: All right, so two other candidates, Gingrich and Paul got some shots in as well. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kind of silly for you to then turn around and run an ad attacking somebody else for getting what you got and then claiming what you got wasn't what they got because what you got was right and what they got was wrong.

JOHN KING, HOST, CNN'S "JOHN KING USA": We have a new television ad that labels him a fake. Why?

RON PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because he's a fake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: All right, Mark, did either of them gain any ground after that?

PRESTON: Well, I got to tell you what, you know, Ron Paul was certainly interesting to watch last night and he gave us a few moments of laughter. The fact of the matter is Ron Paul is not going to win the Republican presidential nomination.

I know that's going to upset some of our viewers, but it is a fact. You know, a lot of people thought that Newt Gingrich did well last night. You know, they said he did a good job of distinguishing himself from the other candidates.

But I can tell you what? He didn't have that moment in order to get back into the top tier. The top tier right now can only be two spots and that's Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney.

I don't think Newt Gingrich had that moment last night. He might have had a good debate, but he didn't have the moment -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Mark, thanks. You can join us Tuesday night for "America's Choice 2012," we'll be following the Arizona and Michigan primaries with a special edition of "JOHN KING USA" at 6:00 Eastern and complete live coverage of the results starting at 7 Eastern with Wolf Blitzer and the Best Political Team on Television.

And we continue following the breaking news this morning of those seven Marines that have been killed when two helicopters collided last night in Yuma, Arizona.

Pentagon correspondent, Chris Lawrence, is joining us now. Chris, what exactly have you learned?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, Kyra, basically they're still investigating this incident. But let's get a quick recap of what we know so far. We know seven Marines were killed in this midair collision. Two helicopters, a Huey and a Super Cobra collided midair. They were in a remote area doing a routine training mission.

The identities of those seven Marines are being withheld. They're not going to release them until they're sure that all family members have been notified. Right now, the incident is under investigation.

Again, we know it was in a remote area. It was about 8:00 at night. So they were doing some night training. You've got the chocolate mountains there in that area. It's sort of on the border, Yuma, is of California and Arizona, still unclear exactly where they crashed in that area.

But I can tell you, they do lot of night training. That's when a lot of the flying took place in Iraq and Afghanistan, so you've got to train that way. This is not the first time that it's happened. I think it underscores how dangerous it is, even in training.

There are no gimmes, so to speak, any time you climb on board a helicopter. In Washington, I think just in December, two army helicopters collided. I think there was another one also in Afghanistan just literally last month.

So crashes happen. I know I've been on just about every kind of helicopter or Chinook that you can name, and I know every time I got onboard, I never ever took any flight for granted.

PHILLIPS: Point well made. I'll agree with that. Chris Lawrence, thanks so much. We'll stay on top of the investigation.

We've also learned that two NATO troops killed by a man in an Afghan army uniform were Americans. They were shot as hundreds of Afghans protested the burning of Korans. President Obama has now written a letter to Afghan President Hamid Karzai apologizing for this grave mistake.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kabul. Nick, we're now hearing that the Taliban there in Afghanistan is telling Muslims to attack NATO military bases?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean, the Taliban have always told Afghans to rise up against what they regard as the infidel occupy. But this is particularly significant because they're trying to harness genuine discontent and loathing.

To be honest, by many Afghans for this admission that a Koran was burned or many different parts of religious text were burned on an air base not far from me here in Kabul run by Americans.

Just a quick recap of what's happened today. We've had two key protests. One in which a Norwegian soldier was lightly wounded and another one in which two Americans were shot by a man in Afghan army uniform, a protest was happening outside the base at the time.

Two protesters were shot dead and seven injured. We now learned from a U.S. official that, in fact, they believe the soldier who shot the two Americans inside was, in fact, acting in conjunction with that protest outside the base so troubling instant here for Americans.

There's very few officials left frankly in seniority to apologize to the Afghan people since Barack Obama put out his statement. Let me read you a line from it. The error was inadvertent. I assure you we will take the appropriate steps to avoid any recurrence and to include holding those accountable for it.

So real effort here by U.S. officials to try and fight this fire, this particular point, it's not seeming to calm protests at all for the last three days. U.S. diplomats on lock down now for two full days in a row.

And I think deep concerns as we approach tomorrow, Friday prayers, and offer the sermons, which can inflame tensions and anger we may see yet more violence -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nick, thanks so much.

Syria's government is offering condolences to the families of two western journalists and it denies reports that it was responsible for attack in Homs that killed them.

As that violence continues, a report now in a British newspaper says that intercepted military communications suggest that Syrian troops actually targeted those journalists that were killed.

Opposition protesters in the battered city of Homs honored American Marie Colvin and Frenchman Remi Ochlick with a makeshift memorial. Videos like this have been posted online by people inside Syria because outside journalists are so restrictive.

CNN's Ivan Watson got inside Syria and actually talked to people who have risked their lives to try and show all of us what is happening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First glance, this little operation looks like a grungy Middle Eastern university dorm room. But these men see themselves as media warriors.

We're fighting a war against the regime's media channel, says the group's leader, even though we're working for free with few resources, we're winning against them because ear servant of a revolution who are demanding freedom. Each activist knows the high stakes of this conflict all too well.

(on camera): You have shown this video?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. This is our friend. Muslim take the place to take a video. WATSON (voice-over): The 23-year-old's (inaudible) last moments alive caught on camera by his friend after he was shot by Syrian soldiers. The little group of revolutionaries have named themselves the (inaudible) media brigade in honor of their fallen comrade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Ivan Watson joining me now live from Istanbul. Ivan, you were in Syria. Tell me from your perspective, how dangerous it is for these rebels to post this video and show their faces and get this information out?

WATSON: As you just saw, one of their colleagues in this little rebel cell was killed a couple of months ago just trying to film when he was gunned down by a soldier.

Tuesday night a cameraman, a Syrian cameraman, who was helping to get a lot of those live video feeds out from the besieged city of Homs, was killed by an artillery shell, a similar one that was killed by two journalists yesterday.

The American newspaper editor, Marie Colvin and a French photographer as well and a couple of foreign journalists were wounded. These guys are doing dangerous, dangerous work.

They do not have flak jackets. They do not have helmets. They are driven by their idea idealism and bravery. They are truly something breathtaking to behold.

And they, I would argue, have pretty much singlehandedly kept the focus on the uprising in Syria alive over the course of the past 11 months as journalists like myself have been blocked from being able to go into that country.

PHILLIPS: So, Ivan, you actually got out of the country safely. How did you do it?

WATSON: Well, one of the alternatives that we've had to do because this Syrian government has so routinely denied journalist access to Syria, is journalists have started smuggling themselves in along a number of established smuggling routes from neighboring countries like Jordan, like Lebanon, like Turkey.

And those smuggling routes have become very important to the opposition for smuggling dissidents who are wanted out, for smuggling supplies in like medicine, like increasingly weapons. And that is a route that we took in from Turkey.

It is arduous physically. It's not legal, according to the Syrian government. It involved walking for more than a mile, carrying all of our equipment, in the dark, in pitch-black. Our trip back was over this kind of rolling biblical countryside.

And it shows how difficult it is for the opposition to communicate and get supplies in from the outside world. On our way out, Kyra, we passed new trains and groups of smugglers carrying bundles of weapons on their shoulders into Syria, M-16s, rockets, some shotguns.

That sounds like a lot, but it's not if you consider that the rebels are fighting with these small arms against attack helicopters, cannons, and battle tanks -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ivan Watson in Istanbul. Quite a description, Ivan, thanks. Puts it out all in perspective, doesn't it?

Well, Steve Forbes ran for president twice. He's still a huge force in politics. So what does money guru think of the GOP candidates still in the race? He joins me live, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Costs go up, too, so we could see fewer people driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, maybe not driving for another reason. The story behind the wild accident on live TV coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Checking stories cross-country now, Boulder, Colorado, winds reach 80 miles an hour. So strong, you saw it tipped over that truck, check this out.

You think this guy is having a hard time standing? Yes. Knocked that person right of his feet. Some homes were damaged. A number of trees and light poles snapped, as well.

In Sacramento, California, fast-moving grass fire suddenly engulfs hundreds of bee hives overnight. Fire fighters faced two immediate problems putting out the flames and trying not to get stung.

Check out this live shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Costs go up, too, so we could see fewer people driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The reporter didn't even flinch. It looks like the car and the cab just slammed right into each other. You can see it happen behind her in the live shot.

She did make sure, however, after she got done what she had to say that the drivers got out, that they were OK and they were.

OK, Mitt Romney throwing some heat in the desert last night. Take a listen to him going after Rick Santorum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROMNEY: If you had not supported him, if we had said no to Arlen Specter, we would not have Obamacare, so don't look at me. Take a look in the mirror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, our senior political analyst Ron Brownstein thinks that Romney's heat wasn't just hot. It was pretty effective, too. Ron, you actually used words like methodical, relentless, so you think the self-described resolute Romney actually pulled it off last night?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, you kind of wonder if he was a prosecutor in some other life because, in fact, he was very calm, but very relentless and methodical in exposing a consistent argument against Rick Santorum.

You know, if Rick -- Rick Santorum's core argument in this race arguably is that I am a more consistent, more dependable, more resolute conservative than Mitt Romney.

But what Santorum was forced to acknowledge last night on an entire series of issues, no child left behind, funding for Title X, which is the federal program that funds birth control for low-income women and earmarks that political expediency at various points in his career caused him to vote in ways that seemingly violate those principles.

And the portrait that Romney I think pretty effectively painted was this is a guy that was much more of a career politician than he likes to let on.

PHILLIPS: All right, so Santorum, OK, he described himself as courageous last night. But you actually say that you're seeing cracks in the campaign.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, no, look, Santorum, the basic structure of the race continues to evolve in a way that gives Santorum a real shot at this. What we're seeing is a polarization of the Republican electorate along ideological grounds where Romney is consolidating voters in the middle who are more moderate.

But you see those more conservative Tea Party voters, Evangelical Christians who had earlier divided among several candidates continuing to consolidate around Santorum. If that continues, he is in a strong position in Michigan and certainly on Super Tuesday.

But what happened last night I think was that Romney showed he could move in argument that could threaten Santorum with those voters because if there's one thing we know about that activist vanguard of the Republican Party, they don't like business as usual in Washington.

And Santorum on a variety of fronts, as I said, was forced to acknowledge that he had been part of in effect business as usual. He apologized about three or four times for earlier positions during the debate. That's not a kind of a situation that any candidate wants to be in.

PHILLIPS: All right, Ron, final question. How about the self- described Mr. Cheerful going after Obama last night? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRICH: I think this is a very sober parade and I believe this is the most dangerous president on national security grounds in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now Ron, David Brodie, the White House correspondent for the Christian Broadcasting Network actually says don't count Gingrich out, especially if Santorum stumbles. Do you agree?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, never say never in this race. By the way, that was one of the best single questions in debates that have gone on for almost a year. Describe yourself in one word.

We saw somewhere between self description and aspiration, I think, in the way all of the candidates labeled themselves. Look, Gingrich, you can't rule him out. Certainly he had a fine debate last night. Nothing seemed to occur last night that would change the basic dynamic, which is the conservative voters seem to be settling on Santorum as their first choice.

But this thing has been up and down, particularly on the conservative wing, populous wing of the Republican Party. So many times you would be foolish to say anything is impossible.

Still right now, it looks like Santorum becoming the candidate of the populous wing of the party versus Romney is the more managerial upscale candidate as where we're going heading into Michigan, Arizona and then that big Super Tuesday on March 6th.

PHILLIPS: Ron Brownstein. So how would you describe yourself in one word?

BROWNSTEIN: Tongue-tied? No.

PHILLIPS: Brilliant. I'll say it for you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks.

PHILLIPS: I'll talk to you later. Join us Tuesday night for "America's Choice 2012" where we're following the Arizona and Michigan primaries with a special edition of "JOHN KING USA" at 6:00 Eastern.

And complete live coverage of the results starting at 7:00 Eastern that will be with Wolf Blitzer and, of course, the Best Political Team on Television.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: I know election year, politicians and pundits don't hesitate to tell us what they think is right for America, but what defines us in 2012?

All this week, we're going in-depth on "I am America" taking a closer look at how our country has changed ethnically, religiously and economically.

Today, Kareen Wynter looks like stereotypes in reality TV and what it says about the changing face of America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Imagine you're from China and the only images you have of the melting pot here in the U.S. comes from reality television shows.

(voice-over): An explosion of unscripted programs like "Real Housewives" spreading to different cities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sure they would think that we just lived in a completely degenerate society.

WYNTER: "Basketball Wives," "Mob Wives," even "Trading Spouses." Viewers have gained "Big Brother" access.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wonder sometimes if the camera brings out the meaner side of people.

WYNTER: Able to view everything from "The Surreal Life."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The viewers love it. I'm sorry to say.

WYNTER: To "The Real World."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the biggest myths of the last decade is that reality TV has anything to do with the real life of America.

WYNTER: Media critic, Jennifer Pozner, wrote "Reality Bites Back, The Troubling Truth About Guilty Pleasure TV."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: True stories.

WYNTER: She says MTV's "Real World," the grand daddy of unscripted TV, which debuted 20 years ago opened the door to discussions of diversity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I admire the black race. I really do.

WYNTER: But she says those days are gone.

JENNIFER POZNER, AUTHOR, "REALITY BITES BACK": MTV's "Real World" devolved. Where they used to treat race and gender and sexuality with some measure of understanding and reflection, now they cast for people who have drunken hook-ups in the hot tub, they will get into huge screaming fights.

WYNTER: Pozner says despite the name "Flavor of Love," this program was more than tasteless as '80s rap star Flava Flav wanted a mate. POZNER: The depiction for hyper sexual lazy buffoons, clowns, criminals, thugs, jezebels, hos, all of that.

OMAROSA MANIGAULT, L.A. EDITOR, "REALITY WEEKLY": It really is the relationship between the audience, the producers and the participants. We're all complicit. We're all guilty of perpetuating these stereotypes on reality TV.

WYNTER: Omarosa Manigault has made a career out of being a reality show fixture on programs like "The Surreal Life" after failing to land a job with Donald Trump during season one of "The Apprentice." She is currently an editor for "Reality Weekly."

(on camera): You said the producer is driving this?

MANIGAULT: The bigger the ratings the more they'll cast those types of personalities, the more they fight, the more you will see the ratings. It is a cycle that will not stop as long as the audience keeps tuning in.

YUL KWON, "SURVIVOR" WINNER: You know, reality shows more so than scripted shows is an area where people are really cast more diversity.

WYNTER (voice-over): Yul Kwon was the winner in "Survivor's" most controversial season when tribes were separated based on race. The rational, according to the host and producer Jeff Probst.

JEFF PROBST, "SURVIVOR" HOST: The original motivation for this was the criticism we received for being too white.

WYNTER: Kwon said when he heard the twist he almost quit. He explained why he stayed on during the show's finale.

KWON: One of the main reasons I wanted to be on "Survivor" was the fact that minorities were underrepresented in media and whenever you see a lot minorities on TV, it's just caricatures. I wanted America to see Asian-American men as they truly are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a lot of groups have benefited from reality TV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Married couples from Beverly Hills.

WYNTER: They won "The Amazing Race" nine years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was about competitiveness, it was about showing the world that gay people can do anything else that anybody can do.

REICHEN LEHMKUHL, "AMAZING RACE" WINNER: I think reality television has made the world a better place and made us all understand each other a little more.

WYNTER: Ultimately, media critic, Pozner says the key is how we view these shows.

POZNER: Watching it in an engaged way, critical way, and debunk the stereotypes, don't take them in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I may be married to a plastic surgeon, but I'm 98 percent real.

WYNTER: Don't be fooled, even if real appears in the title, it's not a true depiction of the real world. Kareen Wynter, CNN, Hollywood.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: For nearly a month we asked you to weigh in on what makes us uniquely American.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I teach English.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Football coach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I speak three languages.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am American. He is, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: You can see more of those I-Reports on our website, just go to ireport.com/iamamerica.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Checking "Top Stories" now.

Two American troops are killed by a person wearing an Afghan national uniform. One tactic carried out in the protest over the burning of Korans by NATO troops. The Taliban is now calling for Muslims to attack NATO military bases and convoys. President Obama has written a letter of apology to Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Seven Marines are dead after two helicopters crashed. That accident happened last night during a training exercise near Yuma, Arizona.

And gas prices skyrocketing. President Obama is going to talk about reducing dependence on foreign oil. His speech is in Miami this afternoon. He's also going to talk about ways to expand oil and gas production.

Ok. Time for "Political Buzz". You're rapid fire look at the best political topics of the day. Three questions, 30 seconds on the clock. And playing today: Robert Zimmerman, a democratic strategist; CNN contributor Will Cain; and Dana Loesch, also a CNN contributor.

All right, guys first question. Last night's debate in Arizona. What do you think? Winners, losers -- Robert?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I don't think anyone really had their breakthrough moment like Gingrich did in South Carolina. But without question, Rick Santorum lost. There's no doubt that he is a zealot when it comes to conservative and right-wing ideology.

However, Mitt Romney was able to position him, he's looking like a Washington insider and in fact someone who wasn't a true conservative. So Rick Santorum is the big loser but I'll tell you realistically I think all of them were big losers in terms of their ability to reach mainstream Independent voters.

As long as they choose to define themselves with the extreme right-wing of their party, with extreme positions --

PHILLIPS: Dana?

ZIMMERMAN: -- I got it.

PHILLIPS: Go ahead. Finish your thought.

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: They got you, they got you.

ZIMMERMAN: As long as they continue to define themselves with extreme right-wing positions about immigration or anti-contraceptive rights for women or policy to disenfranchise the middle class they will lose --

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Ok I'm going have you give you guys an extra five seconds. Dana?

ZIMMERMAN: I got it, ok, I yield.

DANA LOESCH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know where the anti- contraception thing comes from. It's not the 1960s and that definitely wasn't related by any of the candidates last night.

No, last night I think Newt Gingrich won but he didn't win because he gave a stand-out performance in South Carolina. The reason Newt Gingrich won last night is because Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney attacked each other so much and focused so much energy on each other, it insulated him from weathering any more attacks.

So he ended up looking like a statesman and he was the only candidate, and I made this remark last night, he was the only candidate who repeatedly brought the debate back towards Barack Obama. That's winning.

PHILLIPS: Will?

CAIN: Maybe, maybe. That's interesting. I would say Romney won by a little bit only because he was able to knock Santorum down a notch. And I've wondered openly on TV, how does a conservative attack Rick Santorum in a Republican primary? Where is your substantive opening? Where is the hole to get him? And the truth is I think the answer is I focused too much on substance.

Last night Mitt Romney found Rick Santorum's weakness, it's in his personality. We saw it in the early debates, when he came off as dislikable when he couldn't get time in debates, when he's off to the side. Last night he was defensive again, a little bit unlikable. That is Santorum's weakness.

PHILLIPS: Right on time.

Question number two, the candidates were also asked to describe themselves in one word. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Consistent.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Senator Santorum?

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Courage.

KING: Governor?

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Resolute.

KING: Mr. Speaker?

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Cheerful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: I love how everybody laughs at that. All right. Here's my question. What's your one-word, guys, not, two, three, four, five, six. Your one word to describe each one of these candidates. Dana?

LOESCH: Well, with Ron Paul I would say libertarian. With Rick Santorum, I would say redemptive. With Mitt Romney, waffle. And with Newt Gingrich last night I would say statesman.

PHILLIPS: Did you say waffle?

CAIN: Yes. She did.

LOESCH: I did.

PHILLIPS: Will? I'm hungry now. Will.

CAIN: I would use one word to describe the entire field, and that would be "disappointing". If you saw this show about an hour ago you saw Robert and I get into a pretty heated exchange. There's a good debate going on in this country about the future of our country and the long-term prospects for it. What the government's role is going to be in health care, what's the government is going to in free markets and energy policy, what the government can mandate to -- (CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Will, didn't I say one word? Didn't I say one word?

CAIN: And I find --

PHILLIPS: Ok, you said "disappointing".

CAIN: And I find all of these guys disappointing.

PHILLIPS: Ok. Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: I never have heated -- I never have heated exchanges with Will. Just animated conversations.

PHILLIPS: Ok. Play by the rules, one word.

ZIMMERMAN: Ok, ok one word. Rick Santorum, glass jaw. Ron Paul --

(CROSSTALK)

CAIN: That's two.

ZIMMERMAN: Romney's -- Romney's Chihuahua, two words.

Newt Gingrich, shameless. Mitt Romney, a chameleon.

LOESCH: I'm the only one who can count apparently.

PHILLIPS: I was going to say you're the only one that plays by the rules?

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Ok here we go. "Buzzer Beater", 20 seconds on this one, guys.

ZIMMERMAN: Dana wins that round.

PHILLIPS: 20 seconds on this one guys. All right. This is what Newt Gingrich said when he was asked what he's giving up for Lent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRINCH: I am going to give up desserts, all of desserts for all of Lent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Ok. So Gingrich is giving up all desserts. What should the other candidates be giving up for Lent? Will?

CAIN: It feels like a layup but I'm going say that several of these candidates should probably give up their candidacy for president for Lent. PHILLIPS: Oh.

CAIN: I think that Romney is probably the only alternative to provide a real option to Barack Obama come November. And some of these guys should recognize that.

PHILLIPS: Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, we all -- we all --

(CROSSTALK)

CAIN: Like that, Dana?

ZIMMERMAN: We all know that Newt is really moving his dessert into appetizer and he's really giving up salad for Lent. But I think -- I think Ron Paul, he's got to give up being Mitt Romney's attack dog. I think Mitt Romney has got to give up -- Mitt Romney has got to give up his facade. And I would argue Rick Santorum has got to give up eating his own words.

PHILLIPS: Dana?

LOESCH: I don't know how someone can lose four out of nine contests and still be considered inevitable. But that's beside the point. I would say that Ron Paul needs to give up talking about Iran. Just stop talking about it. Because we love you when you talk about domestic stuff. Run from Iran. I would say that Mitt Romney needs to give up all pretenses of defending Romneycare. You have $700 million in increased taxes and fees. You have taxpayer funded abortion in Massachusetts there's no way to defend that on a conservative level.

I don't know what Gingrich and Santorum should give up but I agree, somebody should give up their candidacy.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'm giving up on all three of you and sticking to 30 seconds and 20 seconds in this segment. See you again.

ZIMMERMAN: It's good to be with you.

PHILLIPS: Join us Tuesday night, please, for "America's Choice 2012," we're going to be following the Arizona and Michigan primary with a special edition of "John King USA" at 6:00 Eastern and then a complete coverage of the results starting at 7:00 Eastern with Wolf Blitzer and The Best Political Team on television.

Steve Forbes ran for president twice. Still a huge force in politics. So what does he think of the Republican presidential candidates? He joins me live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Whitney Houston's death at the famed Beverly Hilton Hotel apparently staffers there talked about her death and got fired. "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" host A.J. Hammer has more. A.J. A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST: Kyra, the key word here is "apparently". "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" has reached out to the Beverly Hilton to sort out all the details that are being reported today. This is on RadarOnline. Now, we haven't heard back from the Beverly Hilton just yet although I have to say they've been really terrific with what information they've been able to share throughout this whole situation. It's been a very tough ordeal.

But what I can tell you is RadarOnline is reporting that a few staff members have been fired for speaking out to the press about her death. Now, this reportedly high-level employees who have been let go. I'm sure the Beverly Hilton must have a no media policy in place with their employees, when you really think about all of the celebrities they have as guests. The President stayed there just last week.

None of this is confirmed yet. However, since Whitney's passing the hotel has, understandably, been completely overrun with reporters, Kyra, trying to get every single last detail of what really happened to Whitney Houston and how she spent her final hours.

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, the Academy Awards show is putting out, I guess we should say, a gentle warning about publicity stunts on the red carpet?

HAMMER: Yes. And their aiming this squarely at Sacha Baron Cohen, Kyra. We remember the way he promoted his previous films "Borat" and "Bruno". He was publicly running around in character for weeks on end. It looks like that was his plan for the Oscar's red carpet.

Now, in his new film he plays a sex-crazed Middle Eastern despot. The Academy has let him know they don't want any part of it. And a spokesperson for the Academy tells "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" yes, they do want him there on the red carpet but they want him as a guest. They don't want him there promoting his film.

Apparently they can't simply pull his ticket. People have been suggesting that maybe they would do that. But Cohen was in the movie "Hugo" which, of course, is a big film this year with so many nominations. And apparently the way the Academy works is they allot a number of tickets to each film and each studio and then studio decides who gets those tickets and apparently Sacha Baron Cohen naturally being a big part of the film "Hugh" has one of those tickets. So we're all eager to see how he will show up, just adding a little spice to Oscars this year.

PHILLIPS: Oh, indeed. There's always something, right? Thanks A.J.

And the entertainment world is gearing up for the 84th Annual Academy Awards this weekend. Our man A.J will be right there on the red carpet. No publicity stunts. He's the real deal. Watch Sunday night 6:30 eastern for "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT's" "Road to Gold". That's right here on CNN.

Steve Forbes, he ran for president. He definitely knows money. He's talking politics with me, next.

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PHILLIPS: Mitt Romney is the next Thomas Dewey? Well, Steve Forbes says Romney could suffer the same fate as the infamous runner- up and he should know. Forbes has made two runs for the presidency and he's still a force in politics and, of course, business where he runs a media empire.

Steve is with me from New York this morning. So Romney and Dewey, explain the similarities.

STEVE FORBES, CHAIRMAN/EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, FORBES MEDIA: Well, when Dewey ran back in 1940 against Harry Truman, he was a formidable favorite, ahead in all the polls. But he ran a campaign that didn't say very much. At the end of the day Harry Truman pulled off the biggest upset in American history. And until very recently, Governor Romney was doing the same thing, saying as little as possible.

And yesterday finally, he came out with a proposal on taxes, not as far as I would go, but a good step in the right direction. So I hope he's starting to immunize himself against Dewey-ism.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. Ok. The debate last night. Romney has been described by one of our contributors as methodical, relentless, that he did a great job. I'm sort of reading between the line with what you just said. Have you changed your mind, are you a Romney backer?

FORBES: Not yet. Long ways from that yet. But last night I wish he had hammered home more of his tax plan. He's going to have to demonstrate in the weeks ahead, Kyra, that he really believes this. This is a central part of his theme and hits at every opportunity he gets.

He did do well last night. Santorum faltered -- really faltered, I thought. And Gingrich did well finally after several bad debates or subpar debates. But Romney came through very strongly. He's poring a lot of money in Michigan and he's now I think ahead in Michigan.

PHILLIPS: So let me follow up because this is your favorite obsession, of course, taxes. And this week you actually were interviewed and the quote that have made headlines, you said Obama's corporate tax is a house of horrors. Expand on that a little bit.

FORBES: Well, he does cut the corporate tax rate but ends up in the details putting in a massive tax increase. Talking about putting taxes on small businesses. Most businesses that are small are organized as what they call Subchapter S corporations, or LLCs. So it's going to put taxes on small business. That's going to hurt job creation. He's going to hurt companies that have indebtedness by reducing their ability to deduct interest. He's going to put taxes on companies that have profits overseas. No other country does that.

So when you add it all up it's going to cost companies hundreds of billions of dollars over the next ten years. If that's helping us, I would rather do without the help.

PHILLIPS: All right. While I have you because you're the money guy. You know, we had our big 13,000 moment this week. Let's talk gas, oil, and economy here quickly. We're flirting with five bucks a gallon, Steve. What is this going to do to us and how do you think it's going to play out in the election?

FORBES: Well, I think -- and I don't want to be alarmist here, but I think there's a very real possibility in the coming months that Israel is going to finally have to move against Iran. They think their window of opportunity is closing. They know they've got it as an existential threat. When that happens it's going to send the price of oil up sharply, at least short term.

For a couple months that's going to just royal the markets. I think we'll recover from that, the oil markets, when this crisis abates. But in the meantime expect a lot of turbulence. Otherwise, assume nothing happens in the Middle East, I think you will see gasoline go to, say, $4 a gallon, but not much above that.

The inventories are there. And still a very high price. But I don't think it's going to breach for long $5 a gallon.

PHILLIPS: Steve Forbes, always good to talk to you. Appreciate your time this morning.

FORBES: Good to see you Kyra. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

Well, the debate's over so let the spin begin. We go inside the frontrunners' spin rooms to see what their handlers are saying. Our political ticker in seven minutes.

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PHILLIPS: And some stories that we're working on later today in the CNN NEWSROOM.

At 11:00 Eastern, an arraignment is scheduled for Bradley Manning. You'll remember, he's the man charged with the biggest intel leak in U.S. history. If convicted he faces a maximum sentence of life in prison.

And at 1:00 Eastern, the "Pray without Ceasing" movement, going to try to pray away rising gas prices. The vigil will be held at a Washington gas station.

And 2:30 Eastern, President Obama expected to speak at the University of Miami on gas hike fears and approving energy efficiency standards. You can see that here on CNN.

Time now for our "Daily Dose" of health news. What could be the first prescription weight loss pill in 13 years moves a step closer to government approval. The obesity drug Qnexa is touted as helping patients lose at least 10 percent of their body weight. An outside panel is recommending the drug for FDA approval, saying the benefits outweigh potential risks including heart problems and birth defects. And FDA decision is expected by mid-April.

And coming up next hour in the CNN NEWSROOM with Suzanne Malveaux, "Time" magazine says one specific demographic could mean everything when it comes to counting the votes in November. We're going to ask the mayor of Los Angeles about the issues driving Latinos to the polls. That's coming up when NEWSROOM continues.

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PHILLIPS: Well, the candidates had their say at the CNN debate last night and then the handlers took their turns backstage. Paul Steinhauser was there, too, to hit those spin rooms and get all the scoop. Give us the dish, Paul.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Oh, yes, you've got to love that spin room, Kyra. I tell you. You get a lot of spin there.

Listen, I was talking to one of Rick Santorum's top advisers. You know what he said? He was pretty honest about this. He said, listen, it was not my candidate's best debate, but he said he wasn't that concerned because there's nobody else -- none of the other candidates hit a home run and he didn't feel that too much damage was done at the debate.

What about the Romney advisers? They were ecstatic. They felt that even though their candidate didn't hit a home run he did what he needed to do. They say they're confident that Mitt Romney can win here in Arizona plus in Michigan, both those states of course, holding primaries on Tuesday.

Now, guess who else was in the spin room, Kyra. Rick Perry, the former Texas governor, former presidential candidate. As you know he is now a top surrogate for Newt Gingrich. There was a scrum of people around him.

And our Jim Acosta snuck in there with his camera and with his microphone. Take a listen to what Perry told him about maybe this race going all the way. Take a listen.

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GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: Let me just say that we've had a lot of front-runners in this race and we may have two or three more front- runners before August gets here. It won't surprise me for this to go all of the way to the convention.

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STEINHAUSER: He's a Gingrich supporter so I guess he wants it to go all the way. But we'll see what happens. You know if Romney does falter on Tuesday or maybe on Super Tuesday, there's a chance he can go all the way.

Stay tuned, Kyra. PHILLIPS: All right. We'll be paying close attention. Paul, thanks so much.

And join us Tuesday night for America's Choice 2012. We're going to be following the Arizona and Michigan primaries with a special edition John King, U.S.A, 6:00 Eastern. The complete live coverage and the results starting at 7:00 Eastern with Wolf Blitzer and the best political team on television.

All right. So you know had, obviously here. This is designer's coffee mug, can we get a close shot of this.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: I love it.

PHILLIPS: I'm out and Wonder Woman is in for the next two hours, that's right.

MALVEAUX: We're both Wonder Women, come on.

Inspiring mug, I think.

PHILLIPS: Yes, well, you're inspiring. That's what everyone calls Suzanne, the Wonder Woman of the CNN NEWSROOM.

MALVEAUX: Go have fun this afternoon. We'll see.

She's always giving me a hard time.