Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Some 9/11 Remains End Up in Landfill; News Conference On School Shooting; Alleged Ohio School Shooter Appears in Court; 3 Dead In Ohio School Shooting
Aired February 28, 2012 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And now, as we roll into hour two, a lot of news happening. Watch this.
Just minutes from now, Ohio school shooting suspect T.J. Lane will be in court, and we now know, just in the last hour we have found out that the weapon used in the shooting was a .22-caliber handgun, and a source tells CNN that Lane told authorities he stole the gun from his uncle. More on that in a moment.
Here's what else we know here. Witnesses say teenager T.J. Lane shot five people in the Chardon High School cafeteria. This was Monday right around 7:30 a.m. Students Daniel Parmertor, Russell King Jr. and Demetrius Hewlin were killed. Two others were wounded.
And audio recordings from the local dispatch center detail the horror in those minutes.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have three students down in the cafeteria. At this time, we still don't know where the shooter is.
There is a fourth one down in room 200.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I want to bring in Ted Rowlands. He's now on the phone with us just outside that courthouse where we will be seeing this young man appear in just about half-hour, less than half-an-hour.
Tell me, do we know specifically what the purpose of today's court appearance is?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm sorry, Brooke. Actually, I think you asked about the hearing coming up, and that is expected to be very short.
The purpose of the hearing is to check the status for this young man, basically his detention status, whether or not he will be held, and then the question of will he be treated in the eyes of the law as a juvenile, he is 17 years old, or as an adult? We do expect the prosecution will ask that he be looked at as an adult from here on out, despite the fact that he is 17 years old. BALDWIN: You broke quite a bit of news in the last hour with regard to the weapon that this accused gunman used. Not only do we now know that he told authorities he stole it from his uncle, but we know where they found it.
ROWLANDS: Well, yes, we're getting a much better picture about the weapon that was used yesterday, yesterday morning.
And this is coming from a law enforcement source from CNN's Susan Candiotti. Basically what they're saying is it was a .22-caliber automatic handgun. These six shots were in the commission of this crime. The weapon typically holds between six to 10 in the magazine, six to 10 rounds in the magazine.
As you just said, Brooke, the weapon apparently was reportedly stolen from his uncle. That is what T.J. Lane apparently told investigators. And the key there is that he is talking. He apparently is talking to investigators and is giving them information, so we may find out even more in the next few hours when this court proceeding happens, and then at a 4:30 Eastern news conference where the prosecution and sheriff investigators say they will be taking questions and do plan to provide more information to us.
So we're getting a much more clear picture of the actual crime here, and specifically about this gun.
BALDWIN: Ted, stand by for me as we're getting new information.
We actually now have a photograph. I want to show this. And there he is. This is T.J. Lane, this is a photograph from our Cleveland affiliate WEWS. It's a photograph that shows T.J. Lane and what appears to be three members of local law enforcement escorting him inside that juvenile courthouse.
As we sit and look at this picture, and this is the first image we have seen of him after this entire ordeal from yesterday morning, Ted, it strikes me as odd that they are allowing a camera inside this juvenile court appearance.
ROWLANDS: Yes, you know, it is a bit odd.
The judge, though, has signed off on this, and we have our camera up there and we will serve as the pool. The photo that you're looking at was taken just recently outside the building that we're at right now.
He has been transported -- he was being transported to this building from another facility, and I can tell you the security was very heavy in and around this courthouse. They had deputies everywhere, and this is a -- the shot you're looking at right now of the young man, T.J. Lane, being escorted into the building for his upcoming hearing which will take place in about 25 minutes.
BALDWIN: And just to let our viewers know, as you mentioned, we do have a camera inside that courthouse, so we will be watching what happens in the next couple minutes as far as when we see him, what exactly happens, protocol, et cetera.
We will bring that to you live as we have crews, of course, inside the courthouse, and we have Ted standing by outside.
Quickly, Ted, and let's pull up the "Cleveland Plain Dealer" picture because they have this diagram. As far as what you have learned and what you have gleaned as far as what exactly happened when this accused gunman walked inside this cafeteria, it was study hall, it was 7:38 in the morning according to what I have read, and essentially it sounds like according to eyewitnesses, opened fire on this group, appeared to be targeting them.
ROWLANDS: What we understand -- is this from a source to "The Plain Dealer" that has seen the surveillance videotape and it's from the witnesses we have talked to and that have come forward. We're really getting a clear picture of specifically what happened.
If you look at that diagram of the cafeteria there basically what the videotape apparently shows is that the suspected shooter, T.J. Lane, walked in by himself or sits by himself at one table. Then you can see apparently on the surveillance tape him reach into a backpack, pull out a handgun and walk directly to the table where four individuals are sitting, those four dots you see on that diagram.
He then shoots them at point blank range, and now we know that three of those four young men have died from their wounds. He then walk outside the area and starts going toward the exit, and it's at that point on this tape you apparently see him shoot another victim, a female victim, and at that point, he is being chased out by the teacher we have heard all about, Mr. Hall.
On this tape you can apparently see him then turn and shoot at the teacher as he is running or walking swiftly out of the room. Clearly they have the evidence in this case. That is not the problem. What we really don't know, though, is the motive. What led this young man to do this yesterday morning and change the course of so many lives in this town?
BALDWIN: As far as the why, as far as the motive, Ted, both you and I know at 4:30 Eastern time they're going to be holding a news conference. The prosecution will be talking and perhaps that will shed a little light on the motive.
In the meantime, Ted, we won't let you let you get too far as we will again bring up those live pictures as soon as we see T.J. Lane inside that juvenile courthouse.
Ted Rowlands, my thanks to you.
This community, it's just in absolute disbelief. As Ted mentioned, three of its young people now killed in this school shooting. And there was this emotional plea this morning from the sheriff there, Sheriff Dan McClelland, and School Superintendent Joe Bergant.
Listen to them. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL MCCLELLAND, GEAUGA COUNTY, OHIO, SHERIFF: Chardon is a special place. Many of you got to see that today and yesterday. And you will see it some more in the days to come.
This has touched a lot of people, a lot of families. I happen to be a graduate of Chardon High School. I met my wife here. The most eerie feeling in the world was walking down the halls yesterday, running down them, in response to the incident we had.
The EMS, fire and law enforcement were well prepared, well planned and executed. They carried out the plan. Now we move to another important phase. And while the investigation continues and we still look for the why and what and who, we now deal with a community looking to heal.
My 5-year-old grandson last night wanted to call my niece, a Chardon High School student. He asked her, are you OK? Simple words from a 5-year-old, are you OK? And she said yes and started to cry.
We have a community asking, are you OK? We need to get that message out. Chardon, Geauga County, Northeast Ohio is rallying like nothing we have ever seen before. The outpouring of concern, hope and encouragement has been unbelievable.
JOE BERGANT, CHARDON SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: As I said yesterday, and I mean it from my heart, hug your kids. Kids, hug your parents.
You news media, when you get the chance to get home, do the same. We're not just any old place, Chardon. This is every place. As you have seen in the past, this can happen anywhere, proof of what we had yesterday.
Again, I thank the law enforcement. I thank my good friend Dan McClelland, our sheriff, good friend Tim McKenna, our police chief, and everybody else that works with them. People are too numerous to actually talk about right now, and to be honest, I can't remember a lot of their names right now.
But as I said, and please take this home with you. Talk to your children. Don't text them, don't Facebook them. Talk to them. This is a wakeup call for all of us. Many of you are parents that have cameras in front of you. Please take it to heart. I mean it from my heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Just a quick reminder, we should be getting a live signal inside the court in a matter of minutes, so stay with us for that as we will be seeing the suspected gunman, T.J. Lane, inside this county juvenile courthouse.
Meantime, just in, this story out of the Pentagon here.
Again, pictures of this young man as he's being escorted inside. As far as the Pentagon goes, we're told that some remains of the people who died on 9/11, they were sent to a landfill.
Back after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The Pentagon today has just revealed that some of the remains of some of the 9/11 victims ended up in a landfill.
I want to go straight to the Pentagon to Chris Lawrence.
Chris, a landfill? How? How did this happen?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, here's how it happened.
These were remains that were either so small they couldn't be identified or so burned they could not go through DNA analysis. So what happened was they were cremated. After the cremation, they were put in sealed containers and then handed over to a medical waste contractor.
That medical waste contractor basically dumped them with some other medical waste and incinerated them. What was left was then taken and dumped at a landfill, and that is what we are hearing for the first time. We knew about the problems with some of the service members' remains, but this was the first time the Pentagon has publicly admitted that the victims who either worked in the Pentagon, were on the plane that struck the Pentagon, or were on the plane that crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, some of the remains also ended up in the landfill as well.
BALDWIN: You mentioned the service members' remains. We have certainly talked about this, Arlington National Cemetery, other VA cemeteries. Are we learning about this because of that story?
LAWRENCE: You're exactly right. All of this was precipitated by the investigation of what happened to those service members' remains.
Basically, the Air Force had already admitted that between 2003 and 2008, nearly 300 -- the remains of nearly 300 service members ended up in a landfill. Again, these were unidentified remains of these service members, but the families were not told that this was happening, and the investigation came about because the military wanted to get to the bottom of some of the problems at Dover and how this could happen.
BALDWIN: What is the Pentagon saying?
LAWRENCE: Well, Pentagon officials got before microphones just within the last hour or so and seemed totally taken aback, saying they had no idea about these 9/11 remains. It was the first that they were even hearing about it, and really wouldn't even talk about it much, would just say, we haven't had time to look at the report. So, for some reason, they seemed very, very caught off-guard by this revelation. Now, as to the actual investigation into the problems at Dover, the general who was in charge of looking into that investigation spoke out earlier about how the Pentagon has to own this problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID (RET.), DOVER PORT MORTUARY INDEPENDENT REVIEW SUBCOMMITTEE: The chain of command and command oversight was not properly conducted. Technical oversight was almost nonexistent. Rules, regulations, et cetera were not properly understood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE: And just a quick point, in 2008, Dover sort of changed its policy. So any remains from that point on that are identified, they are then buried at sea.
But this new revelation about these 9/11 victims obviously is going to open up another, you know, entirely new set of questions about how this could have happened.
BALDWIN: Yes. Yes, this is just the beginning of the conversation we're going to have about this.
Chris Lawrence for us at the Pentagon. Chris, thank you.
I want to get back to our breaking story there out of Chicago -- excuse me -- out of Ohio, the teenager here, this is T.J. Lane. This is an image that was caught by our affiliate WEWS out of Cleveland as he was walking in. He has this juvenile court hearing, this initial appearance in a matter of minutes. We will see live pictures. CNN has a camera inside.
Five victims, three have died, two are injured. Live pictures in the courthouse next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, any minute now, we will have live pictures inside the Geauga County Juvenile Court.
And that's where -- let's go ahead and throw the picture up once again. We have this image of T.J. Lane and he is the suspected gunman who -- we now know three people have died, two are in the hospital injured. Here's a picture courtesy of our affiliate WEWS.
We have Ted Rowlands outside the courthouse, and we have Martin Savidge inside, who will be listening as this young man makes his initial court appearance. We also have our legal analyst Sunny Hostin standing by.
And, Sunny, I just want to first go to you, because -- I was talking to Ted about this initially -- when we're talking about juvenile court, and I guess perhaps the question down the road will be if this young man is charged as an adult. But for now he's in juvenile court. Is it not strange that they're allowing a camera in the courtroom?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It depends on the state you're in.
Ohio, as a matter of law, requires a judge to agree to have cameras at a public proceeding. And that includes juvenile proceedings, Brooke, so in Ohio, this isn't odd at all. They do have a victim witness opt-out, which means during a trial, a victim or witness can say they do not want to be photographed, they do not want to be taped, and they can opt out. But other than that, these proceedings are public in Ohio, and so you will have cameras in the courtroom.
BALDWIN: What is -- I don't know if this is a correct word to use -- the advantage, advantage if a judge rules, yes, let's have a camera inside this courthouse? This is obviously a huge, huge case inside this small, tight-knit community. Why agree to this?
HOSTIN: The judge doesn't really have a right not to agree because the law requires the judge...
BALDWIN: Got it.
HOSTIN: ... to have these cameras in the courtroom. It's almost out of the judge's hands.
But I will say this. We have sort of been talking a bit about whether or not he will be charged as an adult. I have looked up the Ohio law, and my research tells me that he will indeed be charged as an adult, because any child over the age of 14 can be tried as an adult.
And over the age of 16 or 17, using a firearm while committing a felony, that person is transferred to adult court. So I believe today we will see that put into motion, and he will be tried as an adult. He's 17 years old.
BALDWIN: What charges -- and to be clear, he has not been charged yet at all -- what charges might he face?
HOSTIN: Well, at last report -- correct me if I'm wrong -- we have two dead and additionally one brain-dead.
BALDWIN: Three.
HOSTIN: So that's three, and so that tells me he's looking at three murder charges.
And let's remember that Ohio is a death penalty state, and so he could very well be looking at those very serious charges in this case.
BALDWIN: Two questions, one being the big one, the why, the motive. We don't know yet the answer to that. And I know in about an hour from now, the prosecution will come out and speak at a 4:30 press conference, so we should have a better idea perhaps as to the why.
The other question is, has T.J. been cooperating with law enforcement? We got the news minutes ago that according to a source of Susan Candiotti's, he has told law enforcement that he did, indeed, steal this gun, this .22-caliber handgun, from his uncle. Are we to glean that, yes, he is cooperating if he's giving them that information?
HOSTIN: That's what that tells me.
Typically, when you have someone in custody, you have to read them their Miranda rights. They have the right not to cooperate and to ask for an attorney. So if he is giving that kind of information, perhaps he is cooperating.
Many people, Brooke, are wondering, well, what comes of this after -- if there are any criminal charges, which I suspect there will be, what about his uncle who perhaps wasn't careful enough with his gun? What about other things? And I think we need only look at the Columbine shooting case. It's sort of become a case study in what happens with these kinds of cases.
BALDWIN: Right.
HOSTIN: And we know that just dozens and dozens of civil lawsuits came as a result of that. So I think we're going to see litigation in this case for a long time to come, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Sunny, stand by for me.
Let's just go ahead and pull the picture up as we're awaiting this live signal inside the juvenile court. We have this image taken from our Cleveland affiliate WEWS, and this is the first image we have seen of T.J. Lane.
Here's the information we have as far as the weapon goes, and this has really just broken thanks to sources of Susan Candiotti in the last hour. We now know he dropped his gun. So the shooting happened at this high school cafeteria right around 7:30 yesterday morning. He dropped the gun inside the cafeteria, was chased outside of the school by this Frank Hall, this teacher who no one has yet to hear from. Six shots in total were fired.
This is the image from "The Cleveland Plain Dealer." This is all according to a source who has seen -- from the surveillance video inside this cafeteria. Those five dots, you see four sorted together and one what appears to perhaps be down a hallway. Those five, those are the victims. The four, according to an eyewitness I spoke with yesterday who was 10 feet away from this accused gunman, said this young man appeared to be targeting these four upperclassmen, and as he was running out, shot at a fifth.
We're waiting for the live signal. We have Sunny Hostin standing by. We also have crews inside and outside of this juvenile court.
We're going to get a quick break in. CNN NEWSROOM will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, minutes from now, we should be seeing the suspected gunman, T.J. Lane, inside this courtroom.
These are the live pictures we have been waiting for. This is the Geauga County Juvenile Court. Multiple, it looks like, Geauga County sheriff's deputies inside there. We do not see the 17-year-old suspected gunman. As soon as we do, we will be talking about that, I'm sure.
I do know we have a crew inside that courtroom, as well as Ted Rowlands standing by outside. We also have a picture, courtesy of our affiliate WEWS, snatched a quick photograph of T.J. Lane, here it is, as he was being escorted inside.
Ted, do me a favor and just set the scene for me. I imagine security is tight, as this is a high-priority case.
ROWLANDS: Yes, well, I was just up at the courtroom area. It is a very small room.
The judge has allowed some members of the media, and, as you can see, there are investigators and some sheriff's deputies. The bulk of the folks that are outside the courtroom have not walked in yet.
What we're going to see in here, more importantly, is this first appearance by T.J. Lane.
And when we do, we'll get an indication pretty early on, I suspect in this hearing, of whether or not -- a couple things will be decided. The first one will be detention. Clearly, he's not going to be let out on bail but that will be dealt with.
And then the question of whether or not in the eyes of the law will this young man, a 17-year-old, be treated as an adult or a juvenile, and we do expect that the prosecution will ask this judge to treat him as an adult.
BALDWIN: So we do suspect this suspected gunman, this T.J. Lane, we will know, Ted, by the end of this court hearing whether or not they will try him as an adult? Is that what I'm hearing?
ROWLANDS: Well, we may not know whether or not the judge decides one way or another, but we should clearly hear that the prosecution will plan to go that route. I suspect the judge will ask and the prosecution will respond with a yes in terms of do you want to pursue moving this proceeding to adult court.
Now, whether or not the judge will make a decision from the bench, that will have to wait and see. He may issue a decision in the coming days and allow the defense, if you will, in this case, the attorney representing the young man to respond in writing as well. But what I do expect, we won't get an indication on where that is going in terms of the prosecution request. BALDWIN: OK. Ted, do me a favor and stand by. I want to bring Sunny back in. Sunny, I'm being told your shaking your head over this. Why is that?
HOSTIN: Only because -- and perhaps, Ted, has information specifically to this case, but my understanding of Ohio law, Brooke, is that he must be tried as an adult because of the allegations here.
I mean, he's 17 years old. He used a firearm while committing allegedly several murders, and so under the law, a transfer is imminent. I don't think that the judge has discretion in terms of whether or not to try him as an adult. But perhaps Ted has -- he's on the ground, so he may have information that is pertinent to this case.
BALDWIN: Ted, quickly, T.J. Lane, do we know where he is at this moment? Is he just in a holding cell somewhere off this room?
ROWLANDS: I could not see where there would be a holding when I was up on that floor. You saw that picture. He's obviously in the courthouse right now. He arrived here probably about 45 minutes ago, so he's being held somewhere inside there.
I did see what appeared to be some family members, some people that were obviously distraught. They were ushered in by sheriffs' deputies and put into a separate area away from the media waiting area. They were brought into a back room. I don't know for sure, but looking at their faces, and I've attended these hearings before, it look, it look weird as though they were stakeholders and possibly family members.
BALDWIN: And they just want to see and taken this initial court appearance. Again, we should be minutes away.
Ted, do you have any ETA as far as when this court appearance will get going?
ROWLANDS: Well, we were anticipating that it would be starting right about now, but as you can see, they are not ready to do so, so they're still bringing people in, whether or not, you know, just looking at the way -- or what the deputy want is very hard to tell. But as you can it doesn't look like it's going to happen in the next few minutes. People seemingly just sitting around and waiting. So what the hold up here is what is going on.
BALDWIN: Let me get you, Ted, to go back to the news as far as this weapon, this .22-caliber handgun. I know you were attributing the information to a source from Susan Candiotti. Can we just, let's just revisit that, because I think it's significant, a, because it perhaps shows that he is coordinating with law enforcement if he is telling them where he got the gun, and two, where the gun was found.
ROWLANDS: Yes, absolutely. What law enforcement sources told CNN is that it's a .22 semiautomatic handgun. He shot at least five rounds with this handgun. And we should mention the real significant thing is that he apparently has told investigators that he stole this gun from his uncle. So if he told them that, he likely is cooperating on some level which really will make a big difference in terms of getting to the question that people here in this very small town, these devastated people want to know, and that is, why.
What led this young man to do what he did? So that's what we know at this point. We also know that there were additional firearms at the home of his grandparents. But it had nothing to do with the crime here and the gun itself was purchased legally a few years ago in this area.
BALDWIN: I just want to play a little bit of sound. I know, Ted, you're on the ground, you're talking to people. You're talking to them. And, of course, we talked to a young man who is 15 years of age. Danny Komertz. He spoke with me yesterday and told me he was 10-feet away from this alleged shooter in the cafeteria. And he talked to me at how he appeared to be focusing on specific targets. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY KOMERTZ, STUDENT, CHARDON HIGH SCHOOL (via telephone): It was clear to me that he was aiming right at them, as he was two feet away and he was aiming right down at them. He wasn't shooting around the cafeteria at all. He was directly aiming at the four of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So he said he appeared to be directly aiming at the four of them, Ted. You know a little more as far as what exactly happened during that study hall hour, that 7:00 a.m. hour at this particular high school. What do you know?
ROWLANDS: Well, this rings true with the other witnesses that we've seen. There was a sense that he knew where he was going and he was targeting a specific group initially when he walked in to that cafeteria, when he actually pulled a gun in the cafeteria.
And we're getting more information as well from the "Cleveland Plain Dealers," talked to somebody who has actually witnessed or reviewed some surveillance tape. According to the sheriff and the police chief we talked to earlier this morning, they have a very good surveillance tape from inside the school which actually shows what transpired.
And according to this witness that had seen the surveillance tape and talked to the people in "Plain Dealer," the newspaper in Cleveland, the main newspaper, they say that this shooter, this young man, came into the cafeteria, sat down, pulled out a gun and then walked directly at a table where these four young men were sitting and open fire at very, very close range.
BALDWIN: Ted Rowlands, stand by for me. Let's go back to that live picture. It appears some of the sheriff's deputies were moving about, perhaps an indication that T.J. Lane's appearance is imminent.
Sunny Hostin, you're go to as far as legal is concern. I mean, what should we expect at this initial appearance? I mean, this could be very, very quick. Could it not?
HOSTIN: It could be very quick. I mean, I suspect he maybe arrange, Brooke. And as Ted mentioned, we're going to find out whether or not he will be detained, whether or not he's going to be offer bail. I suspect that is not going to happen in the case like this where you have 3 potentially premeditated murder charges. And that would expose him to the ultimate penalty, to the death penalty because we are talking about Ohio.
And so while it could be a very quick hearing, this is going to be a very important hearing, because we will get a sense of where the investigation is headed, what they believe he did.
BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin and Ted Rowlands, do me a favor and stand by. We're going to sneak a quick break in. If we do see the T.J. Lane appeared, the accused gunman here, the 17-year-old come through that door, we will break at the break, bring it you live. Meantime, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Back here with breaking news. We are looking inside the Geauga County juvenile court, as we are awaiting the accused gunman here. 17-year-old T.J. Lane accused of shooting multiple people yesterday morning in that cafeteria at Chardon High School. Three have died. And I do not want this to be missed here. We have three now, three today killed, students Daniel Parmentor, Russell King Jr., Demetrius Hewling. All have died. Here are their faces.
Tragic, tragically lives lost because of the shooting yesterday morning. Two others were injured. Two were in the hospital. We are awaiting the appearance of T.J Lane inside this juvenile court. We have Ted Rowlands standing outside the court. We have Martin Savidge inside. We have Sunny Hostin standing by.
As far as the legal angle goes, I mean, it's interesting. I'm just reading some of my Tweets. And some people are asking me, you know, this young man. And, again, he has not been charge. But we talk a little bit about the State of Ohio, the death penalty and he is a minor. Could he potentially, could a minor face death?
HOSTIN: Certainly, especially, he's transferred to adult court. And I suspect that that's what's going to happen here. Again, he's a juvenile, he's 17, but under Ohio's system, there is no question that there are certain exceptions that sort of automatically require a transfer to an adult system.
And I believe this would qualify for that. And we're talking about three victims, murder, 17 years old, using a firearm. You know, it's clear to me that this will never be tried in a juvenile court. This goes through adult court, and in that sense, yes, it would make him eligible for the death penalty.
BALDWIN: Sunny, I've got one eye on you and one eye on these live pictures here as we're seeing more people coming inside the courtroom. Ted had mentioned he thought he saw some family members outside. I don't know if the family members, perhaps some of these victims are allowed inside this courtroom or not, but as we have our eyes poised on that door, awaiting 17-year-old T.J. Lane to appear, we're going to keep our eyes on this live signal.
But Sunny, back out to you, because the other question is, depending on charges, could anyone else face charges. We know, T.J., he lived with his grandparents. He's told law enforcement that he says he got this handgun from his uncle. Could those other people somehow be implicated here?
HOSTIN: Well, you know, I think the case study in this kind of case has been columbine, the 1999 columbine shooting. People will also look at Virginia Tech. And at least in Columbine, Brooke, so many civil lawsuits came out of that case.
I mean, the three people that were found to have provided the guns in the Columbine shooting, two of them, I believe it was over a $2 million settlement was reached. The parents of those shooters were also sued as well. The school district was sued. And so there is exposure all around.
I mean, the question in these sorts of cases typically is, how does someone get that gun? How does a child get the gun? And also, could the school district have done more? And of course we're not placing blame on the school district. We're not placing blame on the grandparents here, but these are questions, I believe, that will be explored if not criminally, certainly, certainly civilly.
BALDWIN: And as far as the law goes in Ohio, and again, I'm getting these questions why show these images? How come a camera is allowed inside this juvenile court, this young man is 17 years of age. And you explained that eloquently. Please do so again.
HOSTIN: Sure. I mean, you know, this is a public proceeding, and in Ohio, and there are certain states that don't allow cameras in the courtroom, but in Ohio cameras are required by a judge in a courtroom.
Now, some folks, there is an opt out. There is a witness and victim opt out, but the assumption is that these cases will be televised. They will allow cameras in the courtroom absent some sort of objection. So perhaps if T.J. Lane's family had objected, a party to the case had objected, the judge would have some discretion. But the presumption is that in Ohio these proceedings are public and cameras are allowed in the courtroom. I mean, we've covered a lot of cases out of Ohio involving juvenile, and those cases as well have been televised.
BALDWIN: Sunny, thank you. Sunny, stand by. We have a crew inside this courtroom. We have Ted Rowlands perched outside.
And Ted, I don't know if you're able to see the image that we're all seeing, but can you tell us who now, is this room seems to be starting to fill up. Who these people are?
ROWLANDS: Yes. Well, they are stakeholders, for one. You could see some folks are obviously with law enforcement there. You can see that the media is in the back of the room. Well, you can see Martin Savidge there from CNN. He has a sit there. He's in a row, focused to the camera area. And we believe that the defendant in this case is sitting at the far end of the table, if you see those empty chairs.
It's sort of a, it's not a regular courtroom, more of a -- it looks like a conference room. This is juvenile courtroom, so it looks much different than a regular courtroom where the bench is much higher and it's separated from, you know, both sides in the jury box. This is a more intimate, very small room as you probably discern from the images that you are seeing there.
BALDWIN: And a box of tissues on the table.
Ted, you mentioned you saw family members outside. I'm presuming family members of victims?
ROWLANDS: I saw some family members actually inside just outside the courtroom when I was up there about 45 minutes ago. And I do not know this for sure, but I saw what appeared to be folks that were very upset. They had been obviously crying, and they were ushered away from everybody else. They were given a room to be in.
Now whether they will be allowed into this proceeding, I don't know. But they were absolutely being taken care of by law enforcement and sort of separated from the rest of us, if you will. It appeared to me, just looking into their faces, that these people indeed were stakeholders, they had lost somebody in this or were severely affected by it.
BALDWIN: Let me -- you bring up a point I would love to pose to Sunny Hostin, and that is, would that be allowed, Sunny, to have, potentially, family members and some of these victims sitting this closely to the defendant inside this room.
HOSTIN: Oh, absolutely, no question about it. I mean, this is a public proceeding. They would be allowed to be there. This defendant, I suspect, will be heavily guarded by the courtroom deputies in this courtroom. That's something that you often see when you have a case like this. It's a high-profile case already, Brooke. And that there are going to be very emotional people involved in a case like this. But there's no question they will be allowed in this courtroom.
BALDWIN: And again, Ted, just to reset again, as we're watching these pictures and awaiting the defendant, the suspected gunman here, T.J. Lane took here through that door, as Sunny mentioned, very heavily, heavily guarded.
What more do we know as far as procedurally what will happen here in the coming minutes?
ROWLANDS: Well, we're not sure exactly what will transpire, except for we know that a couple of questions will likely be answered. And the first one will be detention. This is exactly a big whole day tension hearing. So what will happen is whether the question will be answered. Should this defendant be eligible for some sort of bail? And I think it's clear that the answer to that is absolutely not.
And then the other question, which we are talking about earlier is, will he be treated as an adult in the eyes of the court. And it appears as though, that talking to Sunny, it's sort of a foregoing conclusion whether or not the judge would make a formal ruling on that or just take that. But it's clear that at the end of this, we'll get a better idea on how the law will treat this young man, either as a juvenile or as adult. And it appears obviously it will be moved up to adult court because of the seriousness of the crimes.
BALDWIN: Ted, what more do we know about this suspected gunman, this 17-year-old other than the fact, you know, he lived with his grandparents. Do know what his relationship was like with his own parents? We also know he was being bussed to a school. So where all this happened inside cafeteria is not actually the school he attended. Is that correct?
ROWLANDS: Yes. By all accounts this young man has had a tough go of it in terms of his life at home. He has endured an issue with his parents that involved domestic violence, both his mother and his father have been arrested for domestic violence. His father had been incarcerated for domestic violence.
And talking to people that knew him, this was the thing that people knew about T.J. I talked to one young girl that said that she had become friends with him and she actually brought it up to him, and you know, was sort of curious about his home life, and he didn't want to talk about it. He changed the subject. But he lived with his grandparents and his mother on and off. But, clearly, this young man that had difficulty.
Another one of his male friends said, you know, he used to be one of the gang in middle school and elementary school. And over the last four, five years he sort of drifted off and became more of a loner. But the other thing that everybody said is he seemed to be a nice guy, where he would engage in conversation and was a pleasant guy, quiet but pleasant. And that's why this community and the people are really so shocked.
BALDWIN: Ted, forgive me for interrupting. Everyone rose. The judge has now seated everyone. Let's just -- let me just pause and see if we can hear anything.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY GRENDELL, GEAUGA COUNTY JUVENILE PROBATE COURT JUDGE: And I do not want any photographs taken of him until we've had a discussion about the issue of media participation. So I would ask that the media please refrain from photographing the juvenile until we've had that portion. And I will let you know when you then may and what type of photographs you can take, if any, so please respect that order of the court. And as soon as we have the juvenile here, we will start the proceedings, but I want to not have those photographs taken. And I believe he's coming down now.
Good afternoon. We are here in the murder of T.L. Geauga County case number 12JD102. Present in the court today representing the State of Ohio is the prosecutor, David Joyce.
Prosecutor Joyce, would you please either yourself or have the folks representing the state, please introduce themselves to the court?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your honor. Russell (INAUDIBLE), assistant Nick Berlin, chief (INAUDIBLE) police department, and Sheriff Daniel McClelland (ph) and Michelle Schroeder (ph) from your department.
GRENDELL: Thank you.
The court notes that attorney Robert M. Farinacci filed with the court today a notice of representation that he is representing T.J. Lane, the alleged defendant child in this matter. Mr. Farinacci is present in the court.
Mr. Farinacci, would you and Mr. Lane please stand. Would you introduce yourself for the court?
ROBERT M. FARINACCI, LAYWER: Thank you, your honor. May it please the court, standing beside me to my right is the defendant, the minor child, T.L., to his right is aunt Nancy Rooney, grandfather and legal custodian Jack Nolan and aunt Gilda Spencer.
GRENDELL: And Mr. Farinacci, would you please, either you or Mr. Lane tell us his date of birth for the record.
T.J. LANE, DEFENDANT: September 19th, 1994.
GRENDELL: September 19th, 1994. And Mr. Farinacci, would you confirm that T.J. is a resident of Geauga County, Ohio?
FARINACCI: Yes, your honor, he is.
GRENDELL: The purpose of this hearing was what's called a detention hearing pursuant to Ohio juvenile rule 7. A detention hearing was required after a juvenile has been placed and prevent of detention and the hearing has to be held within 24 hours of the placement.
The court will note that T.J. was placed in detention at 1645 hours yesterday February 27th, 2012, and that this hearing has been conducted within the 24-hour period. Before the court will be the issue of whether or not under the rule that the child taken into custody shall be placed -- continue to be placed in detention or shelter care, or if not considered to be a threat returned to his home. Before we get to that specific issue, I believe there are other discovery and other issues that are pending to come before the court. The court will recognize Prosecutor Joyce. Do you have a motion?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor. I'd like to move this honorable court place an order refraining all participants to this matter in discussing this case any further with the open media.
GRENDELL: Thank you, Mr. Joyce. Mr. Farinacci, do you have any objection to that motion?
FARINACCI: No objection, your honor.
GRENDELL: The court will note that the motion has been made by the state, not objected to by defense council, governs the court's admonition as to the lawyers in this case talking the media.
Before I issue that order, I do want to also note that in a minute, we're going to talk about the media's access to the proceedings as they go forward and that the court understands the interest of the public in this manner due to the serious nature of the allegations and the right of the media to cover this proceedings, but the court would admonish and caution the media to try to be careful what the accuracy of facts as they are portrayed to the public, for our ultimate goal here is to make sure that the public understands the truth of the what happens. But we do not wish the proceedings to be used to mislead the public as to the factual basis of any allegations in the court.
That having been said, the court issues the following order. The defense counsel and prosecuting attorney are hereby restrained from issuing any public comments about the pending status of this case. This court will enforce disorder with both the civil and criminal contemporize of the court. Defense council and the prosecuting attorney shall not discuss this case with the news media pending further order of the court.
It's my understanding, however, there are two exceptions. One exception is that Prosecutor Joyce will be having some explanation after these proceedings. And I have talked with attorney Farinacci if he feels that inaccuracies have been stated by the media, that he will submit to the court a response for the court's and camera review. And if the court thinks it's appropriate to keep the facts straight in this matter, the court then would authorize such release of information.
Is that correct, Mr. Farinacci?
FARINACCI: Yes, your honor, that is correct.
GRENDELL: Is that correct, Mr. Joyce?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct, your honor.
GRENDELL: And that bring one other issue before we get to the detention issue. Multiple media sources, I believe we're up to 47, have asked to participate or appear during these proceedings.
The court is well aware of the case law on this issue, including the case that involved this court 12 years ago. Members of the media should have received a copy of the order that the court issued this morning, February 28th, 2012, that spells out the rules for media participation in the court as well as should have filled out a form, an application and received a copy of the court's local rule 13. Under the order that was issued today, first of all, the court has determined that the media will participate in the proceedings subject to the limitation of that order. Does the prosecution have any objection to the media participation as so restricted?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not, your honor.
GRENDELL: Mr. Farinacci, do you have any objections as so restricted.
FARINACCI: No, your honor.
GRENDELL: All right. In that order, however, the court does make note of court's superintendence rule 12, which states that all victims and witnesses may object to being filmed, videotaped, recorded a photograph. And if they do object, their objections shall be made known to all persons. And victims or witnesses who object may not be filmed, videotaped, reported, or photographed as they so specify.
Is there anyone here who objects to -- let me start with Mr. Farinacci -- objecting to anyone being photographed by the media?
Mr. Farinacci.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your Honor (OFF-MIKE)
GRENDELL: All right.
So the media is instructed not to take facial photographs of any of the family members, which are the two aunts, the grandfather, or T.J. Lane. Photographs not showing facial features will be permitted.
That brings us to the issue of the Rule 7, detention, which is the main purpose for us being here today.
And with that, prosecutor Joyce, it's the burden on the state to demonstrate to this court the requirements of juvenile Rule 7-A, which reads a child taken into custody shall not be placed in detention or shelter care prior to final disposition unless any of the following applied.
One, detention or shelter care is required, A., to protect the child from immediate or threatened physical or emotional harm, or, B., to protect the person or property of others from immediate or threatened physical or emotional harm. Two, the child maybe abscond or be removed from the jurisdiction of the court.
Three, the child has no parent, guardian, custodian or other person able to provide supervision and care for the child and return the child to the courtroom. Required, four, an order for placement of the child in detention or shelter care has been made by the court. Five, confinement is authorized by statute. So, prosecutor Joyce, the floor is yours.
DAVID JOYCE, PROSECUTOR: Thank you, Your Honor.
May it please the court. Yesterday, law enforcement officers responded to the Chardon High School to a report of an active shooter at the school. It became known to first-responders at that time that a student by the name of T.J. Lane had a handgun and was shooting other students in the school.
There were students injured by gunfire in the cafeteria and in need of assistance. T.J. was last seen leaving the cafeteria and heading down the number 200 hallway. Chief McKenna and Sheriff McClelland arrived and took command of the scene.
The officers entered the cafeteria making it safe, located three injured male students. All three were unconscious and bleeding from the head area. Another injured was a male student located in room 200, appeared to be shot in the neck area. It became clear at that point that T.J. had left the building.
Eyewitness accounts and school video surveillance show that Lane was the only shooter involved. A total of five victims were shot. After shooting four students in the cafeteria, and one in the 200 hallway, he ran down the hallway out the east door of the building and down Chardon Recreation Park and Drive into a wooded area.
At 8:37 a.m., he was located on Wooden (ph) Road and taken into custody by Deputy John (INAUDIBLE) without incident. Once in custody, Lane was advised of his rights. He confessed to taking the .22 pistol to school, along with a knife. He admitted went into the school cafeteria and fired 10 rounds at a group of students sitting at a cafeteria table, that he didn't know the students, but he chose them randomly.
Since then, three of the victims have expired due to the gunshot injuries. One remains hospitalized and the fifth victim has been released to the family.
Your Honor, for the reasons set out, this is an active investigation. For the safety of this juvenile and for the safety of this community, and we'd ask that this court entertain a motion to detain him while proper charges and -- the investigation is being completed are proper charges can be presented to this court.
GRENDELL: Thank you, prosecutor Joyce.
T.J. and Mr. Farinacci, before you respond, T.J., you do know you have a right to counsel and you are represented by Mr. Farinacci in this matter. Is that correct?
T.J. LANE, DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
GRENDELL: The court will note that it had discussion with Mr. Farinacci that should he feel he needs additional counsel in this matter and cannot obtain additional counsel through private matters, the court will review and entertain a motion to have the public defender assist if necessary in the further proceedings of the court.
Additionally, you understand, T.J., that you have the right to remain silent with respect to any of the allegations pending in this court at all times. You understand that?
LANE: Yes, I do.
GRENDELL: And, Mr. Nolan (ph), you understand, as the legal custodian, you also have a right to be represented by counsel in these proceedings?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.
GRENDELL: Do you intend to be represented by counsel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at this time.
GRENDELL: Mr. Farinacci, you heard the information provided by the prosecutor on this matter as to why the detention should be continued.
Do you wish to respond?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your Honor, we're not objecting to continued detention.
GRENDELL: Thank you.
The court will then find that pursuant to juvenile Rule 7-A, that the placement of TJL in his home could be contrary to the juvenile's own welfare and the protection of the community and that efforts to prevent or eliminate the need for removal of said juvenile from his home under the alleged circumstances will not be reasonable and that TJL should remain in detention (INAUDIBLE) further order of court during these proceedings for the reason that detention is necessary due to the serious nature of the allegations and charges.
Detention is necessary and required to protect the person or property of others in the community from immediate threat of physical and emotional harm and that detention is required to protect the juvenile himself from immediate or potential threat in physical or emotional harm.
This matter then, under Rule 7, I can place T.J. in detention for 15 days.
The court will make a few other notes. In this case, the prosecution has not yet charged T.J. that under the juvenile rules, the prosecutor has until 16:45 hours on March 1, 2012, to formally charge the juvenile, that in anticipation of that charge, this court has scheduled the initial hearing on any charges that may be filed for Tuesday, March 6, 2012, at 3:00 p.m. in this courtroom.
So the initial hearing will be scheduled for March 6, 2012, at 3:00 p.m. in this courtroom. The court has also tentatively scheduled for hearing or left open for hearing the date of March 19, 2012, commencing at 9:00 a.m., should the -- there be a filing of a motion for transfer to the adult court. So the tentative date for the juvenile Rule 30 probable cause hearing for bind-over is set for March 19, 2012, at 9:00 a.m.
Any questions as to those matters, prosecutor Joyce?
JOYCE: No, Your Honor.
Attorney Farinacci?
ROBERT FARINACCI, AT FOR T.J. LANE: No, Your Honor, none.
GRENDELL: All right, next on the list, the court notes that there have been multiple requests by the media for release of documents under the custody of this court.
Those documents are of three categories. There's been requests for any records if they exist as to any juvenile records pertaining to T.J. There have been requests for any records, if they exist, for other juvenile court records that may pertain to T.J., but are not involving our delinquency division, which would be the family JFS division.
And now there are requests that have been made of this court for release of information of records, if any exist, as to at least one of the victims in this matter.
The court will ask, first of all, the prosecution, do you object to release any of these documents?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your Honor (INAUDIBLE)
GRENDELL: Thank you.
Prosecutor Joyce, attorney Farinacci, do you object to the release any of these documents?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Likewise, your Honor, object to all three.
GRENDELL: All right.
In light of the objections of counsel for both the prosecution and defense, the court has set a hearing date for tomorrow, February 29, at 3:30 p.m. to hear any media representatives and to allow both the state and Mr. Farinacci to defend against a request for release of any of these documents.
For those of you in the media, if you wish to have these documents released, you're going to need to file at least some sort of a formal motion or request with the court and have somebody here representing you tomorrow at 3:30. The court intends to take up all three areas of potential records.
The court is not saying they exist or don't exist, but we will address the release by category in those three categories at the hearing tomorrow at 3:30 p.m.
Again, the court reminds the state charges are due by 16:45 hours on March 1. Initial hearing is set for March 6 at 3:00 p.m. And the court will leave the 19th of March open as a tentative date.
Mr. Farinacci, if you need additional time, the court will certainly be responsive, but the court intends to see this matter be moved quickly through the juvenile court process, as is the requirements under Ohio law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Your Honor.
GRENDELL: Anything else to come before the court today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (OFF-MIKE)
GRENDELL: And the court -- the court will be more than willing to look at that issue tomorrow at 3:30, as we address all the other media disclosure issues.
All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing, Your Honor. Thank you.
GRENDELL: All right, at this time, the court is going to ask that everybody stay in place and that, first of all, that T.J. be returned to the detention of -- the custody of the Geauga County Sheriff. I think the sheriffs for their fine work, and please take him back into custody for transfer to the detention facility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much, Your Honor.
GRENDELL: And, Mr. Farinacci, after T.J. has gone, I'm going to ask you and the family to leave, and then we will go from there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Your Honor.
GRENDELL: To the members of the media, I want you to stay for a minute, because I'm going to try to give you the road map, at least from the juvenile court, where this scheduling is going to go.
You may leave with the family.
