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Obama And British Prime Minister Speak; Car Catches Fire Near Panetta; Gingrich Shrugs Off Calls To Quit; Republican Road Ahead; Shooting Outside Texas Courthouse; U.S. Doing Damage Control After Massacre in Afghanistan; Will U.S. Be Dragged into Iran Conflict; Florida State Attorney Gets Involved in Trayvon Martin Shooting

Aired March 14, 2012 - 13:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: And a beautiful day it is in the Rose Garden of the White House there. President Obama wrapping up his joint news conference with the British prime minister, David Cameron.

I want to bring in my colleagues, Wolf Blitzer, Gloria Borger as well as Jessica Yellin, we'll get to her in a minute in the Rose Garden. One of the things that struck me about what the president said is that he said that he is not going to divert from his position, that there will be no change when it comes to withdrawing U.S. troops and the timetable. We heard him talk about Syria and the fact that this is a peaceful, a soft landing, a transition that he wants, not a revolution. This is not a president who wants to continue on this path of war. He's very reluctant in that sense. Does that speak to what the voters are looking for, what they want when you look at the elections coming up?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think the news out of this was when he said as far as withdrawing U.S. forces from Afghanistan, and native troops, by the way, I do not anticipate any sudden additional cuts to the troops. Having said that, he did say it would be on the agenda, the entire NATO operation, when the allies meet in Chicago, the G-20 summit. That's coming up in May -- towards the end of May. And so, they'll discuss this, and I know there are serious differences between various NATO allies over how quickly to get out of Afghanistan. But the president made it clear, he wants the U.S. troops to stay through the end of 2014 which is another almost three years and the military wants most of those troops to stay until then. They think if there's an accelerated withdraw, it's going to be a disaster. Taliban is going to take over. And everything that's been achieved over these past 10 years -- if, in fact, anything has been achieved over these past 10 years, will disappear.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know you have 60 percent of the American public in a poll taken at the beginning of March saying that Afghanistan is not worth fighting for. You have the president today saying, look, is this -- is this the way I would have worked out the situation there if I had been president all along? Absolutely not. But he doesn't see any sudden cuts of troops. It's clear he's going to do the drawdown in a way that they believe will make the commanders happy with it. Because if he were to sort of announce right now, OK, we're going to draw down a lot faster, I think he'd have a problem with his commanders in the field who have made it very clear that that's not what they want to do. For right now, it's stay the course unless, of course, at the NATO meeting, there is some kind of decision that is made about any kind of different action. But so far, the president, said we're going to stick with our plan.

BLITZER: There are a lot of people, as you know -- a lot of experts on Afghanistan who believe fervently, it really doesn't make any difference if the U.S. spends another three months there or another three years there. In the end, it's going to be a disaster no matter what the U.S. does. And so, the question is, does the U.S. spend a $100 billion a year and lose a lot of lives in the process in the next three years to try to achieve something or do they cut their losses now and get out much more quickly. And this is the debate that's going to front and center.

MALVEAUX: I want to bring in Jessica Yellin who is at the White House there. Jessica, what stood out in your mind? Because, obviously, you had a lot of -- a lot of the discussion -- really, most of the discussion was on foreign policy, not so much on economics.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right, Suzanne. Well, the news I heard was that this was the first time president Obama, himself, said that U.S. and NATO mission in Afghanistan will shift to a support training and combat role in mid- 2013. Defense secretary Panetta said as much a few weeks ago, but the president himself has not set that date, 2013, yet. So, we heard that first from the president here today.

I also heard him say that -- on the topic of Iran, that the window for solving this diplomatically is shrinking. So, you know, we've heard him constantly ramp up the pressure but another notch up there. And I would add that, you know, the president leaves on a trip to South Korea the end of next week, next weekend, where he's talking about nuclear proliferation issues, but we expect both Iran -- and, of course, North Korea, but Iran to be discussed on the side lines of that summit. And so, I think we're going to hear a lot more of the discussion that we heard here at the end of next week as well. And then, of course, more of the Afghan discussion at the summit, this NATO summit, in may -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you, Jessica. I want to bring in Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon, because there is news coming out of Afghanistan. Chris, you've been following this story. We know that defense secretary, Leon Panetta, arrived in Afghanistan earlier today, and there have been some incidents. What do we know?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Suzanne. Even as President Obama was speaking with the British prime minister, Defense Secretary Panetta was at the largest British base in Afghanistan. And when he landed there, his plane had to be diverted and temporarily parked in a different area before coming back because a man, a civilian who works at Camp Bastion stole a vehicle, ran over a soldier -- a coalition soldier and drove the vehicle out on the runway as the secretary's plane was arriving.

We're told that the driver of that car drove it into a ditch and at that point the car burst into some sort of flames. The driver was on fire. He ran out of the car onto a truck and that's when coalition troops were able to put out the fire, arrest him, and then take him to the hospital to be treated. But again, some scary moments. It turned out to not be that big of a deal but at the time the officials there had no idea exactly what the motive was or how big this could be and that's why they kept the secretary's plane diverted for some time.

MALVEAUX: Right. And Chris, do we know whether or not it was the secretary who was targeted? Do we have any information at all whether or not he was the one that they were trying to get to?

LAWRENCE: We don't know that yet. They say the secretary was never in danger, his plane was never in danger, it never got that close, but you have to question the timing of this car coming out to the runway right about the time that the secretary arrives -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Chris Lawrence, thank you.

BLITZER: Can I just ask -- Chris Lawrence, stand by for a second. Chris, you know, it's very disturbing right now to see what is happening in Afghanistan and you will -- you will appreciate this. The fact that Leon Panetta, the secretary of defense, shows up in Afghanistan, he goes into a meeting -- into a hall with a lot of United States Marines and soldiers, all of them have their machine guns, their weapons, but they are forced to leave their weapons outside and not bring them in. Now, this is highly extraordinary.

I've gone on these kinds of trips with secretaries of defense, with chairmen of the joint chiefs, with U.S. military commanders. You don't disarm U.S. military personnel in a war environment, but this time they did and the assumption is, they are afraid, maybe, that some soldier or Marine has post traumatic stress disorder, we're going to see somebody take a shot at the defense secretary. What are they saying at the Pentagon about this incident -- this incident, today, when they asked U.S. Marines, leave your weapon outside, you're not going to bring them inside when you hear from the Secretary of Defense?

LAWRENCE: You are absolutely right, Wolf. And it was a CNN crew that is traveling with the secretary right now and who actually, you know, captured a picture of that -- of the Marines stacking their weapons outside. They had come into the area -- into the area where they were going to be sitting down -- a few hundred, both British and American troops, and they were told by a command sergeant major, to take their weapons outside. The Marines did as they were told, they brought them back outside.

But you're right, this is unusual. For a secretary of defense visit, the Marines are usually not asked to disarm. The word we're getting from our Pentagon contacts is that there were some Afghan troops who were also in that hall. They were unarmed and they did not want the Afghan forces to feel like there was some sort of separate treatment. In other words, armed Americans but unarmed Afghans. WOLF: Yes, but that's -- in all of my experience in these kinds of operations, the foreign troops, they are always unarmed but the American troops, you don't -- you don't disarm U.S. Marines and --

LAWRENCE: You're absolutely right.

WOLF: -- and soldiers in a situation like this unless you're worried that one of them could go crazy or whatever and take a shot at the defense secretary. In the aftermath of what we saw, this massacre the other day of these Afghan civilians, I suspect everyone is a lot more concerned right now and it's a source of deep concern, I'm sure, of the U.S. military. And underscores what's going on in Afghanistan right now, Suzanne. This is a very, very sensitive moment. Potentially a turning point of the aftermath of the Quran burnings, the American soldiers urinating on these Afghan troops and now this massacre. And now, we're seeing some of these ramifications, it's a very sensitive moment.

MALVEAUX: And Wolf, I'll tell you one thing, just being there briefly around the September 11th attacks, it's one thing that the American soldiers talk about is whether or not they can trust the Afghan soldiers, because this is a tremendous undertaking. You're talking about people who can't read, who can't write, who have never held a weapon before, training them to take over the security of their country within a matter of months. And there is an issue of whether or not they trust each other, and these are guys working side by side. This is not about the Afghan people, but people who are supposed to be working together and clearly that trust is diminished. I mean, that is -- that's a real casualty.

BORGER: And that speaks to the same point that you were making earlier, Wolf, which is, does it matter if you withdraw troops in 2014 or you withdraw them a little bit earlier in 2013, if in the end there hasn't been the trust between the American troops and the Afghan troops, if in the end the Americans believe that what they are doing is just not going to be enough, then why not leave earlier?

MALVEAUX: It's a tremendous undertaking, I mean, what those guys are trying to do, those challenges now. And you're right, I mean, and now it's an extraordinary moment.

WOLF: Or when you go to the ministry of interior, and you're a soldier, a government ministry in Kabul in the aftermath of the Koran burnings, and Afghan military personnel shoot American troops in the back of their heads wearing the uniform of the Afghan military. These are not supposedly Taliban. It underscores why there is such fear right now and why so many Americans, whether diplomats, contractors, military personnel, security -- they're basically confined to their bases. They are not moving around because it's so nerve wracking.

BORGER: So, they are not doing their job.

MALVEAUX: Then they can't do their job. Thank you for adding the context. Great to see you as always. We're going to talk more politics in a little bit. We are talking politics. We are talking about the southern swing. Santorum coming off of a southern sweep of Alabama and Mississippi. Newt Gingrich hanging in the race. We're going to crunch the numbers, check out where things are standing for the race for the GOP nomination. Newt Gingrich shrugs off calls to drop out of the presidential race. Gingrich lost the Alabama and Mississippi primaries to Rick Santorum. But he is staying in. Meanwhile, Mitt Romney is focused on the delegate math. Bryan Monroe is editor at cnnpolitics.com and he's talking about the road ahead in the Republican race.

Bryan, good to see you again.

BRYAN MONROE, EDITOR, CNNPOLITICS.COM: Good to see you.

MALVEAUX: As always, it was an exciting night.

MONROE: It was. Quite a surprise for Santorum to come through and take both of the states in the south, particularly when Gingrich was supposed to own Alabama and Mississippi. It didn't work out so well for him.

MALVEAUX: So, what does that mean for Romney? Meaning that that magical number, 1,144 delegates. Can he get there or does this threaten him getting there to the convention?

MONROE: This make it all that much harder. You know, he has got to coalesce the delegates and the state between now and June. And it's becoming more and more difficult. It may still happen, but it's harder because between now and say May, it's almost mathematically impossible for him to get to 1,144. He's going to need the states of Texas, which is at the end of May, and California, which is on June 5th, to push him over the top. But between now and then, you know that Rick Santorum and Gingrich, if he stays in, are going to make this very difficult for him.

MALVEAUX: Does he need Gingrich to drop out to get that magic number?

MONROE: Well, in some ways, Gingrich staying in actually helps Mitt Romney, because it splits that conservative vote. It splits the anti-Romney vote. Because if you look at last night, particularly in Alabama and Mississippi, it was roughly a third, a third, a third. But of those two-thirds -- that means two-thirds of the Republican electorate did not vote for Mitt Romney. And that's troubling. And that hasn't changed a great deal. And that's something he's got to overcome.

MALVEAUX: Does this mean that we're looking at an open convention where no one has the number -- the delegate number -- to become the nominee. And there's all this horse trading that goes on late in the process.

MONROE: Well, you know, conventional wisdom says that the Republicans are very organized and that at some point they're going to come together. And it would be disastrous for them to go into the convention in Tampa with that much chaos.

But it could happen. It actually is mathematically possible. If no single candidate secures 1,144 going into Tampa, and it is left open to the first ballot -- that first ballot does not get to 1,144, then many of those delegates are released and they can vote for whoever they want.

MALVEAUX: What's the next hot race we should be watching?

MONROE: Well, certainly, Illinois is going to be the -- as someone says, the next Michigan. It's both got conservatives in the suburbs of Chicago, where I used to live in Naperville, and across the state. And that's going to -- you see the candidates heading there already to do the campaigning. But Illinois is where it's going to come down to. But, you know, we're not even at the halfway point when it comes to delegates.

MALVEAUX: Wow, we still have a ways to go.

MONROE: Yes.

MALVEAUX: But it's been a great race so far.

MONROE: It's interesting.

MALVEAUX: It's getting ugly. It's been an ugly, messy situation.

MONROE: That's why this is fun for us political junkies.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. Thanks, Bryan.

MONROE: Thanks.

Joining us to talk about the road ahead in the Republican race, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona. Also Republican blogger Crystal Wright of conservativeblackchick.com. She is also a D.C. delegate for Newt Gingrich.

Thank you. Good to see you both.

Crystal, I want to start with you. Gingrich is your guy. Already there are emails circulating, urging him, now is the time to drop out. Should he? When's the time? I mean, why is he staying in?

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, WEBSITE EDITOR AND PUBLISHER: Newt is not going to drop out and he's staying in because Santorum, while he was victorious in Alabama and Mississippi, everybody has pointed out, and your guest earlier, that, you know, it wasn't a huge landslide win for Santorum. And I think that Santorum supporters, specifically Evangelical Christians and some Tea Party folks, are supporting Santorum to make themselves feel good know that he's not going to get the nomination.

And I think Newt's playing it exactly right. Newt supports will not, at the end of the day, if Newt decides to bow out, they're not going to throw their vote behind Santorum, a religious and moral candidate who doesn't, you know, -- he's not going to be as strong of an opponent to Barack Obama compared to, I think, Mitt Romney. So Newt's doing the smart thing. You know, he's splitting -- he's taking away votes from Santorum.

MALVEAUX: Let's bring in Maria here.

On "The Daily Beast," political writer Patricia Murphy, she says here that Gingrich's strategy "is no longer to win the nomination outright, but to make Mitt Romney lose by denying him the 1,144 delegates that he needs to clinch the GOP nomination before the Republican convention in August." So is this personal?

MARIA CARDONA, PRINCIPAL, DEWEY SQUARE GROUP, PUBLIC AFFAIRS: I think that part of it is personal because it has gotten so nasty and so bitter. And, frankly, it's the one thing that has really turned off independent voters and that larger coalition of voters that is going to be so important for whoever the Republican nominee is going to be, to be able to get in the general election. So I think that that is a danger zone for all Republicans to take a look at.

But I do think that it has become particularly bitter between Gingrich and Romney. And you saw it in the debates in the past. And you see it in everything that Gingrich has said about Romney. He's very bitter about all of the money that Romney has spent against him. He's very bitter about all of the allegations that Romney has done in the -- both in the ads, as well as in the debates. And he hasn't really been able to have a good response publicly to everything that Romney has slung at him.

MALVEAUX: And, Crystal, let's bring it back to Santorum here, because he says the win in the deep south proves that Romney's nomination certainly is not inevitable. What do you think about Santorum's chances?

WRIGHT: Well, I think it's important for all of us to not be -- we would be remiss not to mention the "Washington Post"/ABC News poll that came out this week that found both Santorum and Romney in a dead heat tie with Barack Obama, whose approval ratings on the economy now -- disapproval ratings, are at 59 percent among all Americans. So let's not kid ourselves that Obama is some tough, undefeatable candidate.

But back to Santorum. You know, he -- he's not -- I think he has a point. Look, he's got wins under his belt. You can't discount that. But the delegate math, as Wolf pointed out earlier, Suzanne, is not in his favor. Santorum couldn't even get on the ballot in D.C. and Virginia. And normally D.C. wouldn't matter. It's not a primary -- the type of primary that would matter.

MALVEAUX: Right.

WRIGHT: But 16 delegates, winner take all. And let's also remember, in Alabama, Santorum forfeited four delegates. He's going to forfeit about 10 delegates in Illinois. He doesn't have the organization. The math is not adding up to his favor. MALVEAUX: All right.

WRIGHT: And Romney has over 400 delegates. I mean, so that's the reality of the situation.

MALVEAUX: I want to turn the corner here. The Democrats have jumped all over Romney's comment that he would get rid of Planned Parenthood. I want you to listen to what he said in response to a question about cutting the budget.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My test is pretty simple. Is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it? And on that basis, of course you get rid of Obamacare. That's the easy one. But there are others. Planned Parenthood. We're going to get rid of that. The subsidy for Amtrak. I would eliminate that. The National Endowment for the Arts. The National Endowment for the Humanities. Both excellent programs, but we just can't afford to borrow money to pay for these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Maria, I want you to weigh in on this, because his campaign says he's talking about cutting off federal funding. But Democrats say that he's certainly pandering to the right wing of the Republican Party. Can he afford to continue on this line, on this -- the way that he is talking here and still win the moderates and women who he needs?

CARDONA: No, he can't, is the sort answer. But this is the problem with Romney. He also can't afford to do anything to, in his mind, alienate the conservative base. Clearly he's not winning with the base and clearly he is -- does have a problem moving further into the nomination process as weak as he is, as weak as he is with this all-important conservative base.

But, no, he cannot win the general election without independent women, without the broader coalition of independent voters, without Latinos. He is bleeding with both of those critically important coalitions. But that is sort of the problem that Mitt Romney faces. He can't win his own nomination without pandering to his base. He can't win the general election without these independent women, Latino voters, and the larger coalition. That's a big pickle.

MALVEAUX: And, Crystal, just to wrap this up here. Do you think he made a mistake, to go there, to go to Planned Parenthood?

WRIGHT: Absolutely not. You know, women aren't stupid and they don't need to be told what to do with their bodies, whether they're pro-choice or pro-abortion. Planned Parenthood can do just fine without funding from the United States government. And a poll came out again today that found that most women are very turned off by the Obama administration's decision to force religious institutions to provide birth control coverage and pay for it for women. So that's the reality. Women are split on that topic. It's not all hunky dory what the Obama administration did to the Catholic church. So I think -- I don't think it's pandering. I think women are smart. Women will be critical, as Maria pointed out, in this election, along with independents. I do think that Republicans need to do a little better job of talking to independents and get off these social issues. But, you know, I disagree with what --

MALVEAUX: OK.

CARDONA: Yes, but women are smart and they don't want the government in their business.

WRIGHT: They are smart, Maria. Right, they don't.

CARDONA: And they don't want the government in their business.

WRIGHT: So why did the president -- why did the president start putting the government --

CARDONA: And that is exactly what Republicans are condoning.

WRIGHT: Why did President Obama start putting the government in women's business?

CARDONA: This president is actually fighting -- the president is actually fighting for women rights.

WRIGHT: That's what you said. Right, no he's not. And it shows that he --

CARDONA: They were fighting for women's rights, and that's what went --

MALVEAUX: I'm going to have to jump in -- I'm going to have to jump in here. I know you -- the two of you are not going to agree on this point, but we will have you back to debate it another time.

Thank you very much, Crystal, Maria, good to see you, as always.

CARDONA: Thanks, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: The killing spree in Afghanistan is tragic. Is it affecting the war there? We're going to dig a little deeper.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: We have some breaking news here to give you. This is about 85 miles from Houston. This is a shooting that took place in Beaumont, Texas, outside a courthouse. We are getting information from our CNN affiliate in Beaumont, Texas. This is KBMT reporting that three people have been shot. At least one person killed in a shooting that took place outside the Jefferson, Texas, county courthouse. We're working to call on, of course, officials.

But I want to bring in Judge Larry Gist, in Jefferson County, Texas. He was outside, I believe, headed to lunch when he heard the shots. Judge, can you hear me?

LARRY GIST, JUDGE, JEFFERSON COUNTY, TEXAS (voice-over): Yes, sir -- Yes, ma'am, excuse me.

MALVEAUX: Yes. Can you tell us what happened?

GIST: It's, as you can imagine, fresh, and it's hard to be definite about this. We were going to lunch. But I guess we were about a block and away from the courthouse. I had two of my bailiffs with me and they heard over the radio that there was a shooting at the courthouse. And so we sped back they jumped out. Basically, what happened, as I understand it, is there was a defendant on trial. It was break time, lunchtime, and he apparently shot three people, maybe four. One apparently is deceased. And he was -- had a big case. Apparently, he was shot at some point by the police and captured and he's now on his way to the hospital in custody.

MALVEAUX: And, Judge, can you tell me who you've been talking to, where you're getting your information from?

GIST: Mostly from the police radio and people at the courthouse.

MALVEAUX: And people at the courthouse. Do you know where the shooting took place? Are they telling you where it actually took place?

GIST: It was outside of the courthouse, as I understand it. But --

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: And --

(CROSSTALK)

GIST: Beyond that, I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

Apparently, he was leaving in his truck and hit that person, too.

MALVEAUX: Do you know how he got a weapon?

GIST: No, ma'am. I know you all want those answers but it's too quick to give it to you right now.

MALVEAUX: Typically, would he have to go through metal detectors?

GIST: Yes, ma'am. We have metal detectors and security at the front doors of the courthouse. So I don't know if he was in the building with the gun or got the gun after he got outside.

MALVEAUX: Do we know anything about the victims, the shooting victims? Are these people part of this proceeding in his trial? GIST: As I understand it, one of the people shot was one of the witnesses in the proceeding against him. He was charged with aggravated sexual assault of a child.

MALVEAUX: And do we know if the parents of that child, if they were the victims of this shooting? Do we have any sense --

(CROSSTALK)

GIST: I believe that one of the witnesses who may have been the mother of the child. I can't confirm that right now. It wasn't my case and I don't know all of the relevant facts. I know you need to know them and they'll come out but I'm just not familiar with them right now.

MALVEAUX: What is taking place in the courthouse? Is it rather calm or is it chaotic?

GIST: They evacuated the court house as a crime scene. Told everybody -- it's a big courthouse building. We probably 600 people working there now. It's all being evacuated now and they've roped off the blocks around the courthouse as crime sense areas and they're doing the investigation now that you would do after a thing like this happens.

MALVEAUX: OK, Judge Larry Gist, thank you.

If you get any more information, we'll get back to you. We're also reaching out to law enforcement to explain what took place outside of the courthouse. But preliminary reports, that multiple people were shot and the suspect -- that the police shot the suspect and have him in custody. We'll try to get more details as we confirm more information.

Thanks again, Judge.

We're going to take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: The United States is trying to play damage control, do some damage control after the massacre in Afghanistan. Over the weekend, a shooter went on a shooting spree, mowing down 16 innocent Afghans, mostly women and children. Now the country is reeling.

Bringing in Fareed Zakaria to talk about this.

Fareed, we saw the press conference with President Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron. One of the things that the president made clear was that we would not be, at this moment, a change in policy, in moving out U.S. troops. That timetable remains, 2014. Is there going to be fallout in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, if there's not some sort of movement here?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: No, no really. What struck me abut the reaction in Afghanistan is there was a stronger reaction to the Koran burning than to these deaths, to these killings. I think for most Afghans -- and I'm speculating here -- but I think the idea that there was some kind of policy decision made to destroy Korans is something that struck at the very core of the issue of did the United States respect the Afghan people, their customs and of course their religion.

This shooting has been seen as a just a tragic case of one bad guy. It is not seen as something that was ordered by any command structure, that the United States military in any way condoned. And I think that the administration's response, very forceful, saying that President Obama said we take this as seriously as we would if these were Americans who were killed. I think that has gone some way in making people realize this wasn't some kind of policy.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKARIA: Now, at the end of the day, the Afghans are tired of seeing American soldiers in their country.

MALVEAUX: Do you think that there's any daylight between President Obama and British prime minister? Because clearly the Brits don't want to be there one day later, another day.

ZAKARIA: I think that President Obama, if you woke him up in the middle of the night, would have a position not so different from David Cameron's. I think the United States wants to go in a way that is responsible, keeps the place stable. I think the Brits feel the same way. No, I don't think there's much difference.

MALVEAUX: I want to turn to Iran, if we can. We heard from the Israeli prime minister, Netanyahu, and he was -- pretty tough talk, making it very clear that they believe Iran has the capability to build a nuclear weapon, that they would certainly be willing to attack. President Obama is a bit different than that. They want to see if Iran is building a bomb. What do we make of the position of the United States right now in terms of being dragged into some sort of conflict with Iran? Do you think that the tone of the White House is appropriate?

ZAKARIA: Suzanne, that's a very smart question, but I think the White House has tried to play this in a way which may have been too clever by half. Their view, which I completely agree with this, they are taking the threat very seriously. They have mounted an international effort. Iran is more isolated, more weak. Its ally, Syria, is in trouble. And that we should give this time to work and keep the pressure on. The Israelis are saying, no, we're not waiting for them to make a nuclear weapon. We're waiting for the capability to make a nuclear weapon and that's, of course, an intangible issue. When do they have the capability?

MALVEAUX: Right.

ZAKARIA: I think that President Obama went through a period of real tough talk, saying he was ruling out containment and he's not bluffing.

MALVEAUX: Right.

ZAKARIA: I think he may have boxed himself into a situation where he's -- you know, he's given up a lot of his options. He's said, I won't do this, I won't do that, and he has put himself on a path where, unless Iran surrenders and what country has completely surrendered to foreign pressure, he's left with no option but to engage in a preventive war. I think the White House recognizes that and has been trying to dial back, but I would much more comfortable if we have all options on the table. I won't do presidents of the United States should speculate and say I won't do containment. I won't --

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: Right.

ZAKARIA: A lot of international relations is a mixture of threats and promises and bluffs. You don't want to leave anything off the table.

MALVEAUX: Another hot spot is Syria. It's just an unbelievable situation that you have on the ground there. 8,000 people having been killed now. And there's this failed diplomatic mission starting with Kofi Annan and now the president is trying to at least convince folks that the United States is doing something.

Here's what he said earlier in the Rose Garden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Assad will leave power. It's not a question of if, but when. To prepare for that day, we will continue to make plans to support the continued aspirations of the Syrian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Fareed, do you think the United States can act on its own or do they need to wait for the United Nations?

ZAKARIA: Well, the main problem is there's not a lot of military options. Acting is -- you raise the question of what would you do? Iran -- Syria is not likely the opposition, they don't control any cities, any territory. It's not an easy country to supply. In Libya, you had the Mediterranean Sea and Egyptian border. The logistic of doing something in Syria are very complex and I think the president likely believes there's no point in failing in a noble endeavor. If you're going to get involved, you need to get involved in a way that you will succeed. it's very difficult to see how that would happen in Syria. We have to hope that the Assad regime runs out of power and money. They are pushing the Russians hard to effectively cut Syria off. That might be a more useful strike than a few air strikes here or there.

MALVEAUX: Fareed Zakaria, thank you. Good to talk to you.

The question, of course, what can the rest of the world teach the U.S. about health care? See Fareed's special, "Global Lessons: the GPS Road Map to Saving Health Care." It's Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 11:00 p.m. Pacific.

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MALVEAUX: We are learning details about a shooting outside of a courthouse in Beaumont. There was a shooting that took place earlier today. Three people have been shot and at least one person killed in the shooting. This is outside the Jefferson County courthouse. I've just spoken with a judge outside of that courthouse providing details.

We now have Kevin Steele of KBMT.

Kevin, can you hear me?

KEVIN STEELE, REPORTER, KBMT: Yes, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Yes. We know you're outside the courthouse. I understand that we have live pictures, aerials of the scene out there as well as video of somebody being taken out on a stretcher. Can you tell us how many people were shot and potentially how many people killed?

STEELE: As journalists, we always stay on the safe side. We know that three people were shot and we know one person was killed. We believe at least four persons were killed. Those reports unconfirmed at this hour. One elderly lady was shot to death on the sidewalk along Pearl Street, which is here in front of the Jefferson County courthouse. And many of the courthouse workers that we are speaking with, as they filter out of this courthouse now, are telling us about that shooting and about the trauma of really that they have experienced by having seeing her lying dead on the sidewalk there. Most of the courthouse workers have now been able to get out of the courthouse and they are filtering away from this facility now.

Obviously, the shooter is in custody. It's the kind of situation here where there's a tremendous range of emotions. for those who were inside, we talked to several witnesses who said that they were locked down, that they were at one point told that the shooting was over with and then retold that they needed to take cover again because there was another fear that the shooter might reappear. We asked one woman if what she heard sounded like machine gunfire. She had told us that there were at least, what she described as 10 gunshots heard. She said, no, not like a machine gun but in rapid succession, roughly 10 shots fired. So obviously, this is a fluid situation but an emotionally charged situation here at the courthouse at this hour.

MALVEAUX: Kevin, can you explain to us what eyewitnesses have told you what took place? We have learned from Judge Gist is that it was a defendant who was part of a procedure, some sort of trial, a case, who came outside of the courthouse, started shooting. And this was a guy who was sexually -- charged with molesting a child. And potentially one of the victims was the child's mother. Do you know anything about that?

STEELE: Suzanne, that's what we're hearing but I would stress this matter -- I don't know for a fact what -- what the facts are on the ground right now. Police have not come forward to tell us at our location all that's going on. Press conferences could be expected to be held at any time now so we should know more very soon.

MALVEAUX: Do we know anything about the victims of this shooting?

STEELE: We don't have any names. We know only that a person was shot in the hand and the witness thought one other location on the body and was being held in the basement at the clerk's office here. We know about the elderly woman and there were earlier reports of a person wounded at a bus station nearby. The suspect has been taken into custody in what's called the RCI Building. I'm going to say roughly two blocks away from the courthouse here. That's what we know at this hour.

MALVEAUX: OK. Who's getting this press conference and when is it taking place? Do we know?

STEELE: I'm not in a position to know for a fact, although I see reporters massing in front of an area pretty much in front of the courthouse. I can see that from across the parking lot here where I'm at now. So it would appear that the press conference will be happening soon. And we'll keep you up to date.

MALVEAUX: Finally, Kevin, if you can, tell us where are they taking the victims. Have victims gone to the hospital? You say these are people who were killed and injured at the scene?

STEELE: Right. Victims will most probably be taken to the trauma center at Christian's Hospital, St. Elizabeth. That is the most obvious trauma center for them to go to. Although, in a mass casualty incident, you could expect the Memorial Herman Baptist hospital to also take patients as necessary.

MALVEAUX: And do we know anything about the suspect, the defendant in this case?

STEELE: Your reporting has been right on, in that, what we are hearing in the early stages of this investigation is that it was a man who had been accused in Judge Stevens' (ph) court, and accused of having sexually assaulted his daughter. And we were hearing reports of a mentally challenged daughter. We are, of course, waiting for the confirmation of such matters at a police press conference, which must be forthcoming.

MALVEAUX: All right. Kevin Steele, thank you very much. We appreciate the information.

Obviously, as we get more information about this breaking news story, we will come back to this story. This is just developing and unfolding here. We know a defendant, who is in custody, allegedly shooting and killing those outside the courthouse, someone who -- at least two. Kevin Steele and the judge, saying was charged with sexually assaulting a child. We'll have more as we get information. We're also covering, too, the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen, which has outraged a community. A neighborhood watch captain said he shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense. Now a state's attorney is involved.

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MALVEAUX: The case of an unarmed teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch captain is now in the hands of the Florida state attorney's office. Trayvon Martin was returning from a convenience store to his father's house when he was shot. The watch captain told police he acted in self-defense. So far, police have not charged the watch captain. Martin's family and the community are outraged.

Joining us to talk about the case is CNN legal analyst, Sunny Hostin.

Sunny, first of all, explain to us, because it's confusing here. How is it that the watch captain claims self-defense when the teen is unarmed?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It certainly is confusing, but that is because in Florida -- and I'm hearing a little bit of feedback -- but in Florida it's one of the only states that has something called Stand Your Ground Law. And that means, Suzanne, even if you are in your home and someone breaks into your home, burglarizes your home and then retreats, you don't have a duty to retreat. You can shoot the person in the back. Or if you're in the place where you're supposed to be and you are attacked, you feel threatened, you can use deadly force if you feel that deadly force will be used against you. So it's one of the broadest laws. About 15 states have this law.

What concerns me here, Suzanne, is, as you mentioned, you've got a child, a 17-year-old kid, that had a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. He was completely unarmed. And even in Florida, there is this exception to the Stand Your Ground Law, and that is called -- get a load of this -- the first aggressor exception. In my view, when I look at the facts of this case, this watchman called police. He was told to stand down, that a police cruiser would be arriving, because he reported a suspicious teen walking around the neighborhood. He disregarded that dispatcher, exited his vehicle and then followed the teen, pursued the teen, was aggressive toward the teen, and then alleged a self-defense. In my view, when I look at a fact situation like that, that is a trial case, that is a winnable case, because you can't be an aggressor and then claim self-defense. So I'm just as outraged as everyone is in this community because you have an unharmed child gunned down.

MALVEAUX: Is there any understanding of what actually took place between the 17-year-old and this watch captain? Does anybody really understand if there was an altercation or something happened between these two before he shot him?

HOSTIN: Well, we have conflicting witnesses' reports. Certain outlets, Suzanne, are reporting that they saw the two engaged in a fight. Remember that the aggressor -- I believe he was the first aggressor -- weighed about 20 pounds more than this kid, but they are saying that the shooter was aggressive and pursued him, pursued Treyvon Martin. But, of course, those reports are conflicting at this point, and the police say they just don't have enough evidence, enough probable cause, to arrest. But I'm thrilled to say that the state's attorney's office does have the case at this point, and I hope they have the guts to charge him.

MALVEAUX: All right, Sunny Hostin, thank you very much. We're going to be following this very closely.

Thanks. Appreciate it.

CNN NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin continues after the break.

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