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The Night Trayvon Martin Died; Verdict In Daycare Murder Trial; Afghan Mass Killing Suspect Moved; New iPad Goes On Sale Friday; Veterans Group Blames Base For Violence; Blagojevich Behind Bars Now; Thousand Flee Syria In One Day; March Madness Under Way
Aired March 15, 2012 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour. I want to get this right to you.
We are getting some breaking news. The verdict is in here in the case of a man accused of killing a dad, broad daylight, right outside his son's daycare. This case has been all kinds of bizarre. It involves an alleged love triangle. The widow even got -- she got the boot from the courtroom. So you're going to hear what the jury decided in just a couple of minutes.
But, first, a lot happening over the next two hours. "Rapid Fire." Roll it.
The Pentagon now believes an Afghan man who drove a car on to a runway at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan did indeed intend harm. This all happened yesterday as Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's plane was landing. Officials believe the driver, at minimum here, was targeting Panetta's welcoming party, but, they say, it's still not clear if the man knew it was actually Panetta on board that plane. The driver was taken to a hospital after crashing his car. He is now dead.
Also today, the battle over birth control moves to Arizona. That is where a Republican-controlled senate panel voted to allow employers to just say no to contraceptive coverage if they have a religious objection. Arizona House Republican Debbie Lesko told Fox News the move is necessary to protect freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBBIE LESKO (R), ARIZONA STATE HOUSE: What my bill does is basically says that Arizona employers can opt out of the contraceptive mandate if they have a religious objection. And that's really all my bill does. It's really about religious liberty and our protection of our First Amendment rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So that bill now moves onto the full Arizona senate. The house has already passed it.
And in Maryland -- this is going to make you hungry, by the way -- President Obama making a quick stop for some barbecue. The president placing a to-go order at Texas Ribs and Barbecue in Clinton. Having a little fun with the cashier as well. Yum.
Meantime, in Ohio, Vice President Joe Biden stepping into the campaign ring for the very first time today, defending the president's auto bailout to the crowd at the Toledo United Autoworkers Hall and taking aim at the Republican candidates' economic policies. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're about promoting the private sector. They're about protecting the privileged sector. We are for a fair shot and a fair shake. They're about no rules, no risks and no accountability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Also, the Maryland priest who denied a lesbian communion during her own mother's funeral last month is now speaking out defending his action. In a letter posted to cnnnews.com (ph), Father Marcel Guarnizo says he rejected Barbara Johnson under the same reason he would not give communion to a non-catholic, wouldn't give it to a divorced person or someone drunk, as catholic law directs. Barbara Johnson also complained that Guarnizo walked out in the middle of her eulogy. The priest says he left the service because he had a migraine.
I want you to take a look at these pictures here. This is what -- look at this -- several hours of flooding did. This is the central Ohio village of Hebron. Firefighters and dive teams rescued at least 10 people just totally surprised by that fast-moving, fast-rising water. And the Red Cross has now set up a shelter for families who are now displaced.
And on his way to prison, but just still acting like the political star that he is. Former Illinois governor, Rod Blagojevich, arrived in Denver just a short time ago. He is to spend the next 14 years at a federal prison there. And despite a brave face, he told folks as he was leaving home in Chicago, it will be tough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: I have to go do what I have to go do, and this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Blagojevich was convicted of all 17 charges. By the way, he will be in the same prison where former Enron president Jeffrey Skilling is housed, as well.
And Lake County, Florida. A veterans group expressed outrage over a version of the American flag flying outside the county Democratic headquarters. So the flag, with the picture of President Obama is flying just underneath -- there it was -- the actual flag. And nearly a dozen vets went to the door to complain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON VAN BECK, KOREAN WAR VETERAN: I can't describe how upset I was. Because you just don't do that to the American flag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The flag was taken down just a short time later.
And the most famous shipwreck of all time now on the auction block. Yes, we're talking about the "Titanic." And you can now officially own a piece of it. Pieces of the ship are up for bid, along with the ship's china, silverware, passengers' personal belongs and even, you know, jewelry there. Even salvage rights to the wreck site at the bottom of the North Atlantic Sea. Kind of cool. This is the first time artifacts collected during salvage expeditions will be available for sale.
And, we are just getting started. Take a look at what else we have for you in the next two hours. Watch.
Eye-witnesses are now speaking out about what they saw and heard the night a teenager was shot and killed by a neighborhood watch captain. We are also hearing, though, the story of a homeowner who says his life was spared all thanks to this man who allegedly pulled the trigger.
I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.
A house full of people thought to be dead when suddenly the child cries out clearly terrified. A gripping look inside Syria's horror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: The hardest thing I've ever had to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: You will hear what Rod Blagojevich can expect in his first few hours behind bars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's just got to keep his head down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Plus, a polo mogul adopts his 42-year-old girlfriend just before his DUI manslaughter trial begins. Hear what she reveals on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His children were erasing it out of his phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And the government unveils its new effort to stop smoking. The ads are graphic, they're disturbing, but will they work. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: I want to just remind you, we are waiting for a verdict. These are live pictures inside the courtroom. This is in the Atlanta area. We've been talking for weeks about this Dunwoody daycare trial. So this man has been accused of killing another man, a father, just outside of his son's daycare. This was broad daylight in the Atlanta area. This whole case is incredibly bizarre. It involves this alleged love triangle. As we mentioned before, the widow was kicked out of the courtroom a couple of weeks back. So we're going to keep a close eye on this picture. Again, live pictures thanks to our affiliate WXIA. And as soon as we have a verdict, we will bring that to you live.
I do want to move along to a story we have been covering out of Florida here. A neighborhood watch captain trying to prevent a crime is now being accused, by some, of being a killer. But Florida prosecutors have yet to decide if George Zimmerman's actions back on the night of February 26th were criminal. Zimmerman says it was self- defense when he shot and killed this young man, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. There are now new details of the accident from not just but two witness who spoke with CNN's David Mattingly. First, we're going to take a look here at the shooting scene.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trayvon Martin walked out of this convenience store buying a bottle of iced tea and a pack of candy. Goodies in preparation of watching the NBA all-star game. He would have easily made it back to the condo where he was visiting in time for tip-off.
MATTINGLY (on camera): It's possibly that Trayvon entered the neighborhood here, cutting between these two buildings off of the main road here, on his way home. It should have been about a 10 minute walk, a little less than half a mile. And even though it was a little after dark, his family probably wasn't concerned at all. This was generally regarded as a safe neighborhood, a safe place to be after dark.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): One of the reasons for that safety was 28- year-old George Zimmerman, a volunteer neighborhood watch captain. But a recent break-in had people worried.
MATTINGLY (on camera): And someone broke into this one right here during the daytime?
FRANK TAAFFE, RESIDENT: During the day. Yes. They just walked in.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Frank Taaffe believes Zimmerman kept him from becoming a victim just a month ago, alerting police to a suspicious person outside his condo.
MATTINGLY (on camera): What was your perception of him?
TAAFFE: George seemed to be a very congenial, amiable person and we admired him for stepping up and taking over the job as a neighborhood watch captain.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Taaffe says residents didn't know Zimmerman was armed or about a scuffle with police seven years ago that got him arrested. The case was later dropped.
Zimmerman drew a hard line for people parking in the wrong place and playing loud music. Yet on this Sunday night in February, Zimmerman had his eye on Trayvon Martin. A lone, black, 17-year-old walking in the dark. Zimmerman alerted police to a suspicious person.
MATTINGLY (on camera): It's probably about right here where Zimmerman made that call to police. You can see, we're not very far from the entry gates into this neighborhood. At the time, it was a little after dark and it was raining. So Trayvon very likely had his hood up over his head. And his family says it's very likely he was listening to music on his iPhone, not aware of what was going on around him.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Dispatch told Zimmerman police were on the way. To not get out of his vehicle. But that's not what happened.
NATALIE JACKSON, FAMILY ATTORNEY: He got out of his car and he -- there was some confrontation with Trayvon.
MATTINGLY: Natalie Jackson is Trayvon Martin's family attorney, who says it's clear the young man was walking away from Zimmerman, down this sidewalk, around a corner. Police won't say how the encounter turned violent.
JACKSON: There's only one person alive who knows what happened, and that's Zimmerman.
MATTINGLY: One resident tells CNN she saw fighting, heard shouting and screams for help. Then, a gunshot. Trayvon Martin was shot in the chest, pronounced dead in the scene, less than 100 yards from making it home. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: And I want to welcome David Mattingly back from Florida. I mean, that's the first time we've seen pictures inside this gated community of where this shooting happened. I know you spoke with two different witness, right, who were on the scene minutes after the shooting happened. What did they say?
MATTINGLY: Well, they were on the scene almost immediately. This happened outside their backdoor. They had their back window open.
BALDWIN: So they heard it.
MATTINGLY: They were able t-- they said they couldn't hear the altercation, but they did hear something unusual. So let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the kid crying. We kind of looked at each other and that's when we heard the gunshot immediately. Once the gun went off, the crying stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just asked this guy three times, what's going on? What happened in there? And he was looking at me and go back to his position. And when we repeat again, like, what's wrong? What's going on? And he just look at me again and he'd say, just call the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: He being Zimmerman?
MATTINGLY: Right. They walked outside immediately. They saw Zimmerman leaning over the body and he told them to call police.
BALDWIN: We know the case is now with the state attorney. And it's Zimmerman, correct, who's saying it was simply self-defense.
MATTINGLY: Right.
BALDWIN: Why is it taking so long, it seems, to, in fact, determine if that was the case?
MATTINGLY: Well, this gets very complicated. You don't have anybody who was there watching at that precise moment when the gun was pulled and fired. Only Zimmerman knows exactly what he was thinking and what he was going through. And the way the law is, the standard your ground law in Florida. If he believed that his life was in danger, then, yes, it was self-defense. But at this point, police are having to not only get the information about the alleged altercation and then the shooting that took place afterward, they're also having to try and gather evidence to see, was he right in making that decision or was he really in danger? He doesn't necessarily have to prove that. But if the circumstances show that he was really not in danger and he had no reasonable reason to think that, then he could be in trouble here.
BALDWIN: And I know some people are very much so waiting for those 911 tapes to be released, right, in this particular case.
MATTINGLY: The family has put a word out to the court. We want to see those. We want to hear those. And, so far, they haven't seen them.
BALDWIN: OK, David Mattingly, thank you so much.
I want to break back to those live pictures, if we can bring that up. Live pictures inside this courtroom. We are awaiting that verdict. It could come down any minute now in the Dunwoody daycare case in this murder trial essentially here in the Atlanta area. As soon as we get it, we will bring it to you. Back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: As we wait this verdict here in this Dunwoody daycare trial, I want to bringing in George Howell, who I know has been following this right along the last couple of weeks, as have we.
And, George, just do me a favor, reset this. I know this is the story -- this is a case of one man who is basically charged with murdering another man right outside this father's daycare, the son's daycare. Remind us who the players are and how this all relates to that whole love triangle allegation.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, November 2010, and I actually covered this story just after the shooting. We're talking about Hemy Neuman, in this case, the person who has admitted to pulling the trigger in this case. And you mentioned love triangle. People -- many prosecutors and defense attorneys, they allege that Neuman was having an affair with Andrea Sneiderman. That is the wife of the person that Hemy Neuman admitted to killing, pulling the trigger.
But again, in this case, it comes down to this question, was Hemy Neuman sane or was he mentally insane at the time of the shooting. And that's really what we will hear in the next few minutes as this jury comes to a verdict. We will hear whether they decide if he was not guilty by reason of insanity, if he was guilty or if he was guilty with mental illness. Those are really the three decisions that we will hear in the next few minutes.
But again, Hemy Neuman has admitted that he did pull the trigger. His defense attorneys, they argue that he heard voices, demons in his head. Demons in the voice of Barry White and Olivia Newton-John, who encouraged him or discouraged him to pull the trigger. In this case, again, he admitted to doing it. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys make no question about that.
BALDWIN: As we are looking -- George, we're just going to do this here on the fly as we're looking at some of these live pictures. Do you recognize -- are these parents in the courtroom, family members, having covered this before? Rusty Schneiderman's family perhaps?
HOWELL: You're seeing several -- many people in the courtroom. I could imagine these are many of the friends -- many friends of the Schneidermans, Rusty Schneiderman. And that's one of the things I remember interviewing his friends after the shooting and the question at the time was, who would do this? This was a man who was described as having really no enemies. So that was a big question at the time. A volunteer in the community. People described him as a genius, really. A great person. People questioned who would be behind this murder.
BALDWIN: We're looking at pictures of the family, Rusty Schneiderman, his wife Andrea. And we know that she was -- remember, she was kicked out of the courtroom not too long ago. We saw those pictures of her sort of getting up, hugging a witness. And so ever since the judge gave her the boot.
HOWELL: And that is the case. She's not been in the court since. And just recently learned that she hired attorneys for herself. Not sure why at this point. She's not charged with anything. But she has been implicated as somehow being part of a cover-up with Neumann. Again, not charged with anything at this point. But she's not been in the courtroom since.
BALDWIN: OK, George, do me a favor and stand by. And as soon as we do get a verdict, you and I will chat once again. George Howell, thank you so much.
Meantime, win their hearts and minds. Remember that? America's strategy in Afghanistan. Well, as of today, sure sounds like that strategy has failed. You're going to hear what Hamid Karzai is now demanding U.S. troops do.
Plus, why don't we know the name of that U.S. soldier now who's accused of killing families in Afghanistan? We're back in 70 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Afghans, they are demanding the right to bring an accused murder to justice in their own country. But the U.S. soldier who allegedly massacred these 16 Afghan civilians, including women and children, this person is now out of Afghanistan in the facility that the Pentagon says is much better equipped to hold him. A military source tells CNN the staff sergeant is now in Kuwait.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The U.S. soldier must be tried in Kandahar City. Why was he taken away from Afghanistan when he murdered innocent people in this country? He is transferred to another place to be freed. Why did he murder 16 people here? For what reason did he massacre them? We want to see him punished here in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The fallout from the deaths of nine children, three women, and four men continues. Afghan President Hamid Karzai told Defense Secretary Leon Panetta today that U.S. troops should leave all villages and return to their bases. We're going to talk about this in terms of this move here to Kuwait with our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin.
But I do want to go first to the Pentagon to Chris Lawrence.
And, Chris, how has the Pentagon explained this move, moving the soldier from Afghanistan to Kuwait?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, in terms of just moving the soldier to Kuwait, they say it was based on, one, the legal advice of some of the advisers to General Allen. And, two, the fact that they felt they just did not have the facilities to hold a U.S. service member for any length of time. There was already a probable cause hearing, so to speak. It wasn't a full-blown hearing. It was more like an assessment, where they found that they had reason to detain him longer.
But very likely, Brooke, I mean his legal proceedings will probably last beyond his tour of duty. So at some point you knew he was going to leave Afghanistan, if not be brought back here to the United States.
BALDWIN: And also, Chris, why is it that this particular soldier hasn't been identified yet? Why don't we know his name? LAWRENCE: Well there's been -- we've been asking that same question for days now. That, you know, even for minor crimes, if you're stopped in the street and arrested, you get a booking photo. That information is put out publicly almost immediately. Why would such a heinous crime like this, why is the soldier being protected?
The Pentagon has pushed back and said he's not being protected. That according to military rules, they do not release his name until charges have actually been brought against him. And that hasn't happened yet.
BALDWIN: Any idea when that might happen?
LAWRENCE: We don't know. We know that the probable cause to detain him has a finite amount of time. It may be seven days or so. But at some point they would -- if they haven't charged him by then, they'd have to have another assessment to say, OK, we're legally justified to continue holding him.
But yet everybody here at the Pentagon is -- the reporters at least -- are finding this very unusual that he's been moved, no charges, no name, very little information about where he's going or even under what authority is sort of handling his case right now.
BALDWIN: Chris, do me a favor and stand by. Jeff Toobin, I want to bring you in.
If you can, just react to Chris's point sort of over, I don't know, the nebulous nature of, you know, the impending charges, the fact that we haven't -- you know, we don't yet know a name. and also the fact that he is now in Kuwait. What does that tell you? Will he be tried in the U.S.?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): A military diplomatic and legal disaster for the United States. And they are -- the authorities are trying to improvise some way of mitigating the damage.
As for the lack of disclosure of his name, I think it clearly is not normal standard procedure as the Pentagon is implying. But they are worried that there might be some sort of retribution against his family in the United States. Obviously, when he is identified, all of us in the news media will start looking into his background, we'll be talking to his family, we'll be talking about his hometown, where he lives, who his relatives are and those people will be at risk.
Now, I don't think the military can delay forever disclosing his name, but this is just one symptom of what a disaster this attack has been for all parts of the United States government.
BALDWIN: OK, Jeff Toobin, I've got to end that conversation. I appreciate you and I appreciate you, Chris Lawrence, but I've got to go to -- back to this Dunwoody daycare trial.
And let's just -- let's listen in. Again, we are awaiting this verdict. Let's listen to the judge. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Read it in its entirety, please. You may proceed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the superior court of Dekalb County, state of Georgia, state of Georgia versus Hemy Neuman, defendant, indictment number 11CR1364-5, verdict form, jury verdict, count one, we, the jury, find the defendant as to count one guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of mentally ill. Count two, we, the jury, find the defendant as to count two, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Would you please pass that to Deputy Moore, please? He will show it to the state's lawyer as to form.
BALDWIN: OK, so you just heard, and it almost sounded like a fairly emotional individual who was reading those two counts. But again, this is the state of Georgia versus Hemy Neuman, who is accused of killing Rusty Schneiderman outside of this daycare in the Atlanta area. Count one, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but mentally ill. And count two, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, as well.
We're going to talk a little bit more about what this means, what happens next.
Got to get a quick break in. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Just a couple hours from now, the new Apple iPad goes on sale. By the way, business looks really good for the company. Check this out, Apple's stock today at the $600 mark per share, folks said, this is the highest ever.
I'm wishing I had gotten in on that earlier, but I didn't. Anyway, let me bring in my friend and tech expert, Katie Linendoll. Look at that, showoff, Katie Linendoll, with your iPad, which I'm told it's not -- you don't call it the iPad 3. It's just the iPad. Tell me about it.
KATIE LINENDOLL, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: That is correct. I asked actually Apple about that because I like many was mind blown at the event like what's the name of it? Is anybody else totally confused here?
And they're like listen, you don't call your Mac Book a Mac Book 5 or an Apple TV 3. It's just the iPad. And as you can see here, you might not even know which one is the difference.
This is an iPad 2. This is the new iPad in hands a little early. You can't see on your TV screen, but one of those big features that is being touted is this retina display.
It's so -- they have actually doubled the resolution on the iPad 2. You can't even see how clear and crisp it is because it won't come through on your TV. But that is one of the notable differences.
I just want to really quickly, for the consumer out there, tell you what's different about the new iPad and should you purchase. BALDWIN: Yes, walk me through.
LINENDOLL: We talked about that display, double the resolution. Also, a big one for me is the camera, five megapixel camera right now. I'll show you photos that I actually took. It makes a big difference for me.
The 4G LTE capability that's going to get you faster speeds when you're on that cellular signal, also a new faster processor, hot spot capability and I'm not even really going to go into it, but a tiny bit thicker and a tiny bit heavier, which isn't even notable. This is video I took on my iPad 3.
BALDWIN: That was iPad video. That was pretty clear. That was pretty clear.
LINENDOLL: I took that video so this is -- I'm going to look like Satan's sidekick. I took it with the new iPad watching people as they're waiting in line for it, which was horrible of me to do.
BALDWIN: Look at them camping out already.
LINENDOLL: Yes.
BALDWIN: What about this upgrade? The upgrade costs money. Is it worth it?
LINENDOLL: It's a good question. It depends on the user. I say if you haven't had a tablet before and you've been looking to purchase the iPad, perfect time to do it in short.
If you're an iPad 2 user and you're a power user, probably also can justify making the upgrade. However, if you don't do use your iPad 2 a lot, I think it's worth sticking with that iPad 2.
Remember, they're keeping iPad 2 on the market for $100 cheaper. This is a nice little option to have for somebody that's on a bargain budget.
BALDWIN: How, I mean, when we talk sales, I'm sure they're anticipating huge sales with all those people already waiting for it, right?
LINENDOLL: Pre-orders already sold out. I know a few of my friends that have tried to purchase online are actually waiting weeks out. Sales tomorrow are predicted to hit $1 million and sales for 2012, predictions of 60 to 65 million from analysts. So Apple just keeps skyrocketing. Yes, it's going to be a huge hit.
BALDWIN: So is he is that yours? Do you get to keep that?
LINENDOLL: This is a little loan. When you have a cool gig, you get the little gadgets in early to try out, but I have had my hands on it early.
I'll tell you the biggest thing for me is definitely that display, photos a lot crisper. A little bit faster. It supports the 1080P high-def video. So these little upgrades, if you are that early adaptor like myself, it's a notable difference.
BALDWIN: Nice. Nice, Katie Linendoll, good to see you. We missed you at South by Southwest.
LINENDOLL: I know. I missed you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Next year. Katie, thank you.
The soldier accused of killing families in Afghanistan comes from a base in Washington State. This certainly isn't the only incident involving one of their soldiers. In fact, it has been called, I'm quoting here, "A base on the brink, the worst in the military."
Coming up next, I'm going to speak live with a person behind one group that calls this base rogue. You're going to hear what they're demanding next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Once again, a high profile violent incident drawing attention to this massive military base in Washington State. I'm talking about joint base Lewis-McChord.
The latest violence, the attack in Afghanistan Sunday that left 16 civilians dead, believed the victims of this U.S. soldier. This is just the latest here because also this week, murder for hire charges, were brought against Lieutenant Colonel Robert Underwood in Tacoma.
Add to that, remember the January case, Benjamin Barnes of the Stryker Brigade, he's believed to have killed a park ranger on Mt. Rainier New Years Day. He was later found dead.
Do you remember the story in 2010? It was about that alleged kill squad. These four soldiers convicted of killing Afghan civilians for fun? So this base is very much so coming under a lot of criticism.
Some of the strongest coming from this veteran group called "GI Voice." The group goes as far as to call this Lewis-McChord base a rogue base. I want to bring in Jorge Gonzales. He's part of this group, the executive director of "GI Voice."
You help run "Coffee Strong." It's a coffee shop just across the street from joint base Lewis-McChord run by veterans. You join me from Lakewood, Washington.
Jorge, you used the word rogue base. That's strong language. Why? Why do you say that? Be specific.
JORGE GONZALEZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GI VOICE/COFFEE STRONG: Well, specifically, it's because for years now, joint base Lewis-McChord has been one of the most troubled bases in the military, according to Stars and Stripes. So, there's been no oversight, no kind of anybody, any politicians trying to investigate to see why there's been so many suicides, why there's been so many cases of post traumatic stress, why these soldiers keep coming back and committing for sexual assaults, more DUI cases, more domestic violence issues and why things like the Afghan kill team keep happening, why this soldier killed 16 civilians. There's no oversight by any politician.
BALDWIN: But just so I'm clear, before I move on, you pin that on Stars and Stripes. But do you agree with Stars and Stripes that this is a rogue base?
GONZALEZ: I believe it is a troubled base. It is -- it's been acting without any oversight for a couple years now. There's no follow-up from anybody.
BALDWIN: I want to get to the calls for an investigation from Congress and the leadership. But I do want to be clear. We've reached out to the base for comment. They haven't responded, but as you mentioning, you know, Stars and Stripes calling this the base the most troubled base in the military.
"L.A. Times" calling this base a base on the brink. And Stars and Stripes, they quote this retired army general who points to this severe leadership problem. Do you agree with that? What does that really mean?
GONZALEZ: There is definitely a leadership problem. The leadership on the base is sending soldiers back on their deployments well knowing that they still have not taken care of their mental health issues or even their physical issues.
Soldiers will be deemed un-deployable by medical professionals and the chain of command of these units with no medical experience can override those written profiles.
And still keep sending these soldiers back overseas even though they do have post traumatic stress or they're still dealing with sexual assault cases or they're still dealing with their traumatic brain injuries.
BALDWIN: I know because of these allegations you just outlined, you want Congress to step in. You want them to investigate joint base Lewis-McChord. You're not happy with the response or perhaps the lack thereof.
We did reach out to Washington State Senator Patty Murray's office and I just want to read. Her office got back to us. Here's what they say, Senator Murray has been the one that has already pressured the Pentagon to launch three separate investigations into mental health care on the base that are ongoing.
She is also holding a previously scheduled field hearing on aiding the transition of service members back home in Tacoma in April. So Jorge, what more do you want? GONZALEZ: I want some follow through. I want this to keep happening. I want Senator Patty Murray to keep putting pressure on Congress, on the Pentagon.
BALDWIN: We were -- go ahead.
GONZALEZ: We did reach out to Patty Murray last year. And we never really heard anything back until the soldiers took it upon themselves to reach out to Patty Murray themselves that their post traumatic stress diagnoses were being taken away from them by Madigan Hospital on the base.
BALDWIN: What sounds like from what they tell us, they're on it, they're pressuring the Pentagon. I spoke with Patty Murray on a totally unrelated but related in terms of veteran issue last week.
They're launching a big review nationwide. But I know as we were reading about your group, Coffee Strong, you know, your group has been -- you refer to yourselves as pro soldier, but anti-war. Is that a care characterization, Jorge?
GONZALEZ: Definitely, we are here to take care of the soldiers. We want the soldiers to get their medical benefits that they deserve and they need when they get out of the military. But we're against the wars that the government is sending them off to fight to.
BALDWIN: Final question. When you look at the acts of these individuals, these individual soldiers or veterans, can you really blame the base?
That's where they eat, where they sleep, where they exercise or is it simply that the situations? I mean, these are situations say in Afghanistan where they volunteered for. Can you blame the base?
GONZALEZ: Yes, I can definitely blame the base. These soldiers are still -- they have not taken care of the wounds, the mental wounds that they suffered in Afghanistan or in Iraq. So the leadership keeps ending them back on these multiple deployments without taking care of them first.
BALDWIN: Jorge Gonzales of Coffee Strong, we're going to stay on the story. We appreciate you coming on and speaking up about it. Thank you.
Coming up here, Rod Blagojevich spending his first hour behind bars. So what should the former governor expect in his first night in Colorado tonight? Convicted lobbyist Jake Abramoff, he has been there. He has some advice about the first day in prison. You're going to hear it. Don't miss this next.
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BALDWIN: Well, it is day one of a 14-year prison term for former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. He is now in Denver arriving today.
Jeans and a blazer looking kind of relaxed. Of course, who could forget Blagojevich was convicted of 17 charges including trying to sell President Obama's former Senate seat. The former governor didn't leave Chicago without a fanfare. He did have a news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: I have to go do what I have to go do, and this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And no send off would be complete without a run-in with the media. Before leaving his Chicago home, Blagojevich had a few choice words for reporters there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: Saying goodbye is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Heavy heart. Clear conscience, but I have high, high hopes for the future. And among the hopes is now you guys can go home and our neighbors can get their neighborhood back. I'll see you guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going to sustain you?
BLAGOJEVICH: When I see you. I'll see you around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What time is your plane?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: But back in Denver, it was back to vintage Blagojevich. Here's what he said when he got there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: You know, I'm leaving and doing something that I never imagined would ever be possible still hopeful in the future. I'm still, as I said yesterday, in the same place as I was when I talked to the judge back in December. And that you know, among the things I take with me is a real sense of pride in things I was able to achieve for people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Blagojevich obviously not camera shy, keep in mind, he was on "Celebrity Apprentice." So cameras followed him by air and on the ground all the way to the prison doors.
While that may be part of who he is, convicted lobbyist Jake Abramoff warns all the celebrity, yes, won't play well in prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK ABRAMOFF, CONVICTED LOBBYIST/AUTHOR: Basically, he's got to keep his head down. If he plays to the celebrity, plays to the attention and plays to all the hoopla, made about him, he will wind up in trouble in prison. The authorities don't like that. They want inmates to be inmates, not celebrities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Speaking of celebrity former Enron President Jeffrey Skilling is also in that very same prison where Blagojevich is now. Blagojevich is 55 years old. He will be well into his senior years when he gets out. Now this.
Look at that. This is Syria, the violence getting worse. The government won't stop massacring its own people.
Coming up next, I'm going to speak with someone who just returned from the Syrian border and he says if the world doesn't intervene, Syria becomes a breeding ground for radical Islamists that's next.
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BALDWIN: One thousand people flee from Syria in one day alone, 1,000 and they're escaping violence like this.
Look at that explosion. That is believed to be an IED hitting a Syrian tank just this week. Here's another number for you, 14,000, 14,000 Syrians have now fled to the Turkey/Syria border. They are neighbors where these Syrians are now living as refugees in Turkey.
What's worse though, the government has reportedly tried to plant these mines to stop the Syrians from leaving so one diplomatic source says you know, if there weren't mines there, it wouldn't just be thousands, it would be tens of thousands of Syrians who would have fled to Turkey to safety.
I want to bring in Soner Cagaptay of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Soner, welcome back to the show. I know you've been away. You just got back from Turkey or near that Syrian border. You spoke with local Turks. What's their perspective on the current situation?
SONER CAGAPTAY, SENIOR FELLOW, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Well, it's interesting when you visit Turkey, especially southern Turkey towns along the Syrian Border. You get a sense that the Assad dictatorship is a brutal machine and that his crackdown is effective and that the opposition in the uprising, even the armed elements of it are really no match at the moment if the regime goes on a full pushback.
A lot of people I talked to who have family or relatives or business contacts in Syria were saying the opposition fears unless there is outside assistance such as arms and other assistance, communication assistance, that the opposition might, in fact, be severely crushed and brutal little defeated by the dictatorship.
BALDWIN: What about the refugees themselves? I cited the number 14,000. That I could obviously increase. Could Turkey handle these numbers?
CAGAPTAY: That's always been a concern. I think Turkey can handle small numbers perhaps 10,000 up to 50,000, maybe up to 100,000. Right now, we're talking about 10,000, 12,000.
But I think if it comes this is a massive refugee flow and there are large cities right across the Turkish border if the regime carries a full assault, you could see a massive flow of over 100,000 people.
I think that's when Turkey would go turn to the United States and its allies and NATO and ask for assistance. So you could see how this would bring a more international intervention as approach to the conflict.
BALDWIN: Well, let's talk about intervention. You wrote that radical Islam is an argument against Washington intervening. What do you mean by that?
CAGAPTAY: What I mean is the following. People I talk to who have just been in Syria, including journalists and Americans are suggesting that there is no reason right now whatsoever to suggest that there is a radical Islamist element running this uprising.
These are people like you and I who want democracy and want the dictatorship to end. The longer the conflict festers and the longer the outside world watches, the majority of people in Syria being Sunni Muslims, there's going to be a perception that the outside world allowed this slaughter to continue because these people are Muslims.
I think this will radicalize the people of Syria based on that identity. We saw this in the 1990s in Bosnia, another secular country in which assault gradually radicalized some elements of the population so that Bosnians who are very secular, very pro western in a couple years time went into a breeding ground where al Qaeda and others could recruit.
I think you could see a similar pattern in Syria. There is no fear of the radical Islamist right now, but I think the longer we let this persecution of Sunni Muslims continue by a minority regime, the higher the chances are that this will turn into a conflict in which people say the outside world lets us get killed because we're Muslims.
BALDWIN: So to prevent that from happening, to prevent a future radicalization, talk about Turkey stepping up to the plate here. I mean, Turkey's role as a growing power in the Middle East. If war weary Washington continues to be reluctant in what's happening in terms of Syria, you've written that could be a blessing for Turkey. How do you mean?
CAGAPTAY: Well, I wrote this on CNN a few days ago. I think the idea is that Turkey really does not like what's going on next door, the slaughter and it doesn't want people getting killed.
But at the same time, it's also limited in the sense that Turkey's regional self-power is also its limitation in Syria. Turkey has built a tremendous amount of power in the Middle East in the past decade through trade, through commerce, through schools and through diplomacy by basically making a case that it is a country that gets things done without using power.
Now people are saying, is Turkey going to intervene in Syria? That goes against the argument of Turkey's self-power. Turkey has to determine how much it can get done within self-power, with diplomacy and trade and how much through the use of arms.
That's where the Turks are finding out their regional strength, their self-power is also their limitation in their Syria policy. Ultimately, somebody will have to decide how and when to use arms and outside intervention to stop the Assad dictatorship.
BALDWIN: It needs to be a well planned delicate intervention. Soner Cagaptay, as always thank you. Come back anytime.
CAGAPTAY: Thank you.
BALDWIN: I know it's early, but I may not get to say this tomorrow. Guess who's leading CNN anchors in the March Madness challenge? This one. I hear you laughing Chad Myers. I hear you laughing. Wait till you hear how much time American workers are wasting watching the tourney at work. Chad Myers. Winner, winner, winner, be right back.
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BALDWIN: Trending today, the madness that is March NCAA men's basketball tournament in full swing today. I'm sure you haven't been watching TV, of course, you're just watching CNN. Games starting at noon Eastern going all through tonight.
We at CNN have a challenge. You can watch cnn.com/brackets. Do you see that, Chad Myers? You see that gal at the top of that list.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: That would be you.
BALDWIN: On day one, I lead.
MYERS: You are 6-0 because Kansas State just beat Southern Miss. You got that game and obviously Murray State won a little bit earlier. You now are 6-0 girl.
The Southern Florida/Vermont, BYU and Western KY, amazing because now I'm 2 for 5, but you know what I don't like about your thing here? You're doing great. You don't have any Cinderellas. You don't have a Cinderella in the dance. Syracuse, Wisconsin, 3, 2, 4, 1. You don't have any.
BALDWIN: Someone will emerge.
MYERS: You want to see my junk I've got here. I've got all kinds of stuff. I have Murray state and Memphis and Belmont going all the way to play Kansas. I don't plan on winning just having fun. BALDWIN: OK, let's talk about -- let's talk about loss productivity. They do this sort of survey every year, like 2.5 million Americans lose 90 minutes each and every day because we're watching the game at work.
MYERS: Almost a billion dollars in lost revenue. We got something from Richmond, Virginia, some professors saying, I know you're going to lose a billion dollars big companies, but your firms, you're going to have such a good rapport with all employees now liking each other.
And talking about something in common, this is a water cooler subject. As soon as this gets over, the 1st, 2nd of April, your firm, your company will be a closer knit company because of this, even though you lose a billion dollars to get there.
BALDWIN: Can we rag on our dear associate producer, Craig Schultz (ph)?
Guys, let's throw the picture up.
MYERS: I love this one.
BALDWIN: I snapped this picture on my iPhone. He was supposed to be cutting video. Do we have it?
MYERS: He was multitasking.
BALDWIN: Aha.
MYERS: He had three screens on.
BALDWIN: Look at that, three screens, one of them basketball.
I'm just saying, Craig Schultz (ph), I got my eye on you.
Chad Myers, thank you. Now this.
MYERS: Congratulations, Brooke.
