Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Sanford City Manager News Conference; Possible Racial Slur In Shooter's Call; Sanford Police's Image; French Gunman Is Dead; "We're Drilling All Over The Place"; Oil Execs To President: Drill; De Niro Joke Rules Some Conservatives; Rutgers Webcam Defendant Speaks Out; Tebow Faces NYC Media Machine
Aired March 22, 2012 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And hello to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour. Want to get you caught up on everything making news right now. "Rapid Fire." Roll it.
First up here, breaking news from Florida. Here's what we know. This is from our affiliate WKMG. They are reporting that the city manager of Sanford will be holding a news conference in just about an hour and a half from now, 3:30 p.m. Eastern Time. Of course we're going to bring that to you live. We don't know yet what he plans to say, but we will be watch for that again in about an hour and a half from now.
Also today, about 1,700 students walked out of class in Miami today to protest the death of Trayvon Martin, the teen shot and killed just about a month ago by that neighborhood watch captain. The 17- year-old Martin lived in Miami, went to school there. But in Sanford, the city council has approved, as of last night, this vote of no confidence in its own police chief whose investigators have yet to arrest watch captain George Zimmerman who shot Martin during an altercation in a gated community last month. The Justice Department is to meet with Martin's parents this afternoon.
Also, some new signs the job market is getting a little bit better. Fewer Americans are now joining the ranks of the newly unemployed. So the number today, according to the Labor Department, is 348,000. That's the number of people who filed initial unemployment benefits last week. That is down about 5,000 from the week before. It is also the lowest number in four years and closer to normal job turnover in a healthier economy.
And just a short time ago, President Obama officially announced his plans to fast track the southern part of the Keystone XL pipeline project. Republicans, as you know, they want him to approve the entire product which would stretch all the way from Canada down south through to the Gulf Coast and they have blasted the president over the high gas prices we've been seeing lately. But the president, he stands by his energy policies. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Since I took office, our dependence on foreign oil has gone down every single year. Last year we imported 1 million fewer barrels per day than the year before. Think about that. America, at a time when we're growing, is actually importing less oil from overseas because we're using it smarter and more efficiently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So that's what the president's saying today. But coming up in a half hour, I'll be joined by one of the president's critics. He, in fact, wrote an open letter to the president. He is Oklahoma oil man Harold Hamm. We'll talk to him about the impact of today's announcement and why he wants the whole pipeline and wants it now.
Also, the French gunman who killed seven people, including school children and soldiers during a shooting rampage, is now dead. A violent 32-hour standoff with French police ended when 23-year-old Mohammed Merah was shot in the head after bursting out a window of his apartment still shooting at officers at the time. Inside, police found videos of all of this man's shootings. Officials, they are now speaking out about what it was they saw on those tapes. More on that in just a couple of minutes for you from France.
Also, the FBI is watching suspected Hezbollah agents with ties to Iran right here in the United States. A panel told the House Homeland Security Committee that they are definitely here and they are raising money for their cause. Among even more disturbing facts coming out of this hearing, authorities say that more than 70 used car dealerships in the United States were part of the Hezbollah money laundering scheme.
And more mysterious booms in the night reported in this town in Wisconsin. This is all happening in Clintonville, but at least the number of calls about the loud noises and shakiness is down a little bit from what they saw earlier in the week. Still no word yet as to what in the world is causing the racket. But everyone seems to have a theory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's manmade.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sinkholes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like the ground shifted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know if it's manmade or something geological.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: New equipment is arriving today for sensors that will be placed aren't town this afternoon to determine the source of the booms.
And a record seizure at Washington's Dulles Airport. The most heroin ever recovered from a human stomach. Listen to this. Customs officers, they actually became suspicious initially of this Nigerian woman who arrived Saturday. And so this routine patdown led officers to take her to a hospital where x-rays showed this hidden cargo. She had swallowed 180 pellets of heroin. Let me repeat that, 180 pellets of heroin weighing nearly five pounds. Street value, folks, in her stomach, about $150,000.
And check out this video. This is video of a U.S. military attack helicopter crashing at a mountain outpost. This was taken in Afghanistan. And you're going to see here how the chopper narrowly comes in, misses a building, and so the pilot, he's pulling up, he comes back around, look how close, before dropping low, slamming into the ground. There he is. The crew amazingly survived, but the crash is under investigation to determine if the pilot was performing dangerous stunts for spectators on the ground. That crash happened last month, but the video has just now appeared online.
And coming up here in just a couple of minutes, I'm going to speak live with the county NAACP president in Sanford, Florida, about this whole Trayvon Martin case. He says the police department there has had multiple problems through the years. We're going to talk about that with him. A lot of questions, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Again, we just want to reiterate this breaking news here that we have just learned that the Sanford city manager will be giving a news conference at 3:30 p.m. Eastern Time this afternoon. So we will, of course, be bringing that to you live. We're going to talk a little bit more about that in just a minute. But first, let me just back up and say, just last night, the Sanford city council gave this vote of no confidence to the current police chief overseeing this entire Trayvon Martin death investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All those in favor of the vote of no confidence signify by saying aye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opposed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three to two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: A neighborhood watch volunteer shot the 17-year-old Martin on February 26, claiming it was in self-defense. The vote that you just heard, three to two last night, is in line with the NAACP's demand that the chief should resign. They say his investigators, by now, should have arrested the shooter, 28-year-old George Zimmerman, seen here in this photo CNN obtained exclusively.
And while last night's city council vote certainly says a lot, it's not official because the person who ultimately makes the call on whether Police Chief Bill Lee stays or goes is the city manager. And right now he has chosen to delay judgment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORTON BONAPARTE JR., SANFORD CITY MANAGER: I'd like an independent review by a law enforcement agency that will tell me, did the city of -- Sanford Police do something they shouldn't have done or did they not do something they should have done. Based upon that information, I would make a determination as towards the future of Chief Lee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Chief Lee isn't commenting, but the family of Trayvon Martin plans to hold a news conference later today as well. So we've got two news conferences we're looking for. George Howell is live for us there on the ground in Sanford.
George, I just want to begin with the news that we just got that Norton Bonaparte, the city manager, is going to be speaking in just about a -- less than an hour and a half from now. Do you know anything about that, why he's called this press conference?
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, yes, we just checked that out. A lot of things happening pretty quickly. That press conference, I'm told, will be a daily update just to kind of talk about what's happening right now in the city. Certainly we're expecting hundreds, if not thousands of people here in Sanford. So that meeting is expected to start around 3:30 p.m. And we will, of course, bring that to you live.
But we also know that the family today is meeting with members of the Department of Justice. They meet at 3:00. And we are supposed to have a news conference with them right around 4:30 p.m. So we should be able to bring you some reaction to that meeting.
But a lot of things happening very quickly here. Obviously a lot of focus on this city after the shooting. And a lot of people are rallying together to see George Zimmerman put behind bars, Brooke.
BALDWIN: So, hang on. Let me bring you back to the point about the city manager holding these daily briefings. He's been holding daily briefings? That was news to myself and my producers in my ear.
HOWELL: This is rather new. This will be the first daily briefing.
BALDWIN: The first daily briefing.
HOWELL: If, in fact, that is what it is. That's -- yes, the first daily briefing that we're getting. But, you know, we're starting to see the city manager more and more. And just yesterday I talked it him. He said that he wants to get the word out that he welcomes a federal investigation. In fact, Brooke, we learned that members of the Department of Justice, they are here right now in the police department starting to look over this case. So a lot of things happening very quickly today.
BALDWIN: OK. As we await those two news conferences happening at 3:30 p.m. and then presumably 4, 4:30 p.m., let me ask you about George Zimmerman again. I feel I have to ask again. Has anyone heard from him? Also, though, and I'm assuming the answer is no, I imagine that the police, George, know exactly where he is if and when they need to contact him and if and when they decide to charge him, correct?
HOWELL: The city manager told me that exactly, that the police department knows exactly where he is. We checked around. We checked at relative's homes. We checked at friend's homes. No one knows where he is at this point. He is essentially in hiding. But the city manager says, if the police department needs to get in touch with him, they can do so.
BALDWIN: We are also, though, learning, because of these public documents, a little bit more about his background. George Zimmerman's background. Tell me a little bit about his parents' professions.
HOWELL: This is very interesting. We learned that his father was a magistrate judge for the Virginia supreme court and that his mother was a deputy clerk for more than 20 years. So this may give some indication as to why he had such an interest or has such an interest in law enforcement.
In fact, I want to read this statement that he wrote in his application for an outreach program to teach citizens about law enforcement. Take a listen to this. George Zimmerman wrote, "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard and I hope to one day become one." So clearly it shows why he has so much interest in law enforcement and being a watch captain in this neighborhood, Brooke.
BALDWIN: OK. George Howell, thank you, for us in Sanford.
Now, George Zimmerman's father insists his son is not a racist, telling "The Orlando Sentinel" that some of the family members are black. But according to ABC News, the Sanford Police Department admitted investigators missed a possible racist remark in that 911 call that George Zimmerman made minutes before shooting Trayvon Martin. And when CNN asked Sanford Police about this exact report, Sergeant David Morganstern (ph) says he wasn't sure exactly what Zimmerman said. Still, something can be heard in the audio. So we, today, are going to let you hear the controversial moment. And it is very, very brief. We're talking less than two seconds here. But first, just a warning to all of you, you are about to hear racially insensitive language and cursing and we didn't want to cover any of the audio just to give you a clear -- a clearest version as possible. So, more now from CNN's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is edit room 31 at CNN Center in Atlanta. This is one of the most sophisticated audit edit suites in the broadcast news business. And right here is Rick Sierra (ph). He's our audio design specialist. He's one of the best audio experts in the business.
Rick, if you can, I have not listened to this portion of the 911 tape at all. I just want to hear it raw right now if you can play maybe ten seconds before and let's listen.
RICK SIERRA, AUDIO DESIGN SPECIALIST: OK.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN (voice-over): Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.
DISPATCHER (voice-over): OK. Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
ZIMMERMAN: The back entrance.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): you may not have heard the moment in question because it was so quick.
TUCHMAN (on camera): How long does that portion last that everyone's talking about?
SIERRA: A second, 18 frames.
TUCHMAN: A second, 18 frames. So that's about 1.6 seconds.
SIERRA: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So let's listen to it like 10 times in a row if we can.
SIERRA: OK.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): What we're listening for is the racial slur "coons." It follows the f word. Some people say they hear it. Others say they don't.
ZIMMERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).
TUCHMAN (on camera): It's certainly a lot clearer when we listen to it this way.
SIERRA: Correct.
TUCHMAN: Is there anything else we can do with that audio to make it even clearer?
SIERRA: Well, you can -- I already did a little bit of boosting to 2.2 kilohertz and at 4.6 kilohertz. That's boosting the high end of the voice.
TUCHMAN: It sounds like it could power the flux capacitor in "Back To The Future." SIERRA: That's right. That's right.
TUCHMAN: OK.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): What Rick has done is lowered the bass.
TUCHMAN (on camera): So why is it that you want to get rid of the low end of the audio, the base of the audio?
SIERRA: Well, to minimize the noise.
TUCHMAN: To minimize the noise. So that takes away the noise and allows us to hear the voice more clearly.
SIERRA: That's correct. I'll boost it up a little bit more there. And we'll give it a shot here.
ZIMMERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).
TUCHMAN: It does sound a little clearer to me.
SIERRA: Yes.
TUCHMAN: You know, it sounds like this allegation could be accurate, but I wouldn't swear to it in court. But that's what it sounds like to me.
SIERRA: Yes. Yes. It's very difficult to really pinpoint what he's saying.
TUCHMAN: Rick, can we play just that second word. What we think the second word is and hear if that sounds any different?
SIERRA: OK.
ZIMMERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).
TUCHMAN: Man, it certainly sounds like that word to me, although you just can't be sure.
SIERRA: Can't be sure.
TUCHMAN: That sounds even more like the word than using it when it was in with the f word before that.
SIERRA: That's correct.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Only George Zimmerman knows if he used the slur. But he's not talking. So the phone call, like so much of this case, remains a mystery.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Gary, thank you. Coming up, we're going to talk to the head of the NAACP in the county where Trayvon Martin died.
Also this.
Florida's self-defense law suddenly in the spotlight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What person brings a gun to a park?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: An elderly man kills an Iraq War veteran in front of the soldier's daughter. Now, the shooter is free.
Bullets fly in a marathon standoff with a guy who called himself al Qaeda. And before his death, he made chilling claims about homemade videos.
Plus, Bill Maher says America is too sensitive and folks apologize way too much for what they say. Coming up, I'll speak live with comedian Dena Mudall who says there is a line.
And, she is the youngest woman on death row, but police say a friend, along with a prison guard, plotted her escape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The public response to Trayvon Martin's death has been intense, possibly even record-setting. Change.org reports the petition for the arrest of Martin's shooter is the fastest growing in Internet history with more than 1.1 million signatures at this point.
And check this out. This is the first ever million hoodie march happened in New York yesterday. Demonstrators calling for the arrest of George Zimmerman. Wore the clothing -- the 17-year-old Trayvon Martin wore the clothing, a hoodie, that Zimmerman described as suspicious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN'S MOTHER: Our son was not committing any crimes.
CROWD: No.
FULTON: Our son is your son.
CROWD: Yes.
FULTON: We want you to get up and stand up for justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And, as you know, the outrage, it's not just about Zimmerman's actions that night, but also about the lack of action by Sanford Police. And the criticism, apparently it's not new. According to the county NAACP leader, Turner Clayton, he has a much deeper perspective on this since he has worked as a sheriff's deputy in the county for more than 20 years. And I want to welcome him. He's joining me live there from Sanford.
And, Mr. Clayton, first, let me just get to this news that we have heard that Norton Bonaparte, the Sanford city manager, is going to be holding this first briefing that apparently he plans to make daily starting today in about an hour from now. Sir, what do you want to hear from him?
TURNER CLAYTON, PRESIDENT, SEMINOLE COUNTY NAACP: What we hope that he will say that he is terminating the police chief. That would be the best reason to have this particular news conference today.
BALDWIN: We know that the vote was 3-2 in this no confidence vote last night. Do you think by terminating this place chief who's been on the job for something like 10 months, do you think that will eradicate this problem that you say has been going on with the folks in Sanford and the police department for quite some time?
CLAYTON: It would give more credence and the evidence that the city is interested in trying to bring about calm in the community. The city commission voted a 3-2 vote on last night of no confidence. Now it's up to the city manager to carry out that 3-2 video. If he decides to go ahead and carry out that vote, then that can kind of calm the community down a little bit and kind of relieve some of their outrage.
BALDWIN: Let me ask you a little bit about the outrage. I know that, you know, you, NAACP, you held this gathering at a church in town last night talking about the shooting of Trayvon Martin, but also about the experiences that individuals have had with police in town. Can you just give me an idea of what you heard last night?
CLAYTON: Yes, we had various citizens come in to voice their complaints that they had with the police department. Some stated that their loved ones have been killed and, in some cases, no report was actually taken or there was no complete investigation as to why they was killed and anyone brought to justice in those particular cases. And we had several complainants who voiced the same concern in regards to that.
BALDWIN: We brought some of those concerns, one of our producers on the ground, you know, brought the concerns to the Sanford Police Department. Their response to us was no comment. As I mentioned, you worked with these Sanford Sheriff's Department for more than two decades. When you hear these complaints, voice, multiple times last night, does it sound like the Sanford you know, that you've lived in for years?
CLAYTON: Well, yes. Just listening to what they had to say, yes, I can verify a lot of those complaints because it's not the first time that I've heard those complaints. And, of course, in some of those cases, even though we did not investigate complaints within the city limits concerning murders and other killings, we did have knowledge of those taking place. And so a lot of times our justice did not prevail in those cases.
BALDWIN: But if you had the knowledge and you didn't investigate as a citizen leader, why not? Why not sound the alarm earlier?
CLAYTON: Well, as a citizen, as the leader of the NAACP, once we actually found out about what has happened, then we launched our independent investigation. And, of course, we also asked the state attorney to come in and prosecute those cases and we also have referred cases to FBI lead to come in and investigate. And some of those cases they have actually taken and investigated and turned those reports over to the state attorney's office. And most likely the state attorney, in a lot of those cases, did not prosecute.
BALDWIN: I understand. Sir, what do you want to see happen here? I mean this is -- this seems to me such a bigger issue than this horrible story involving Trayvon Martin.
CLAYTON: Well, we have issued three goals to the city of Sanford. The first goal is that we would like to see George Zimmerman arrested. And, of course, we know that the case has been turned over to the state attorney and they have full jurisdiction at this time. The state attorney has the authorization to either go ahead and file formal charges or go ahead and convene a grand jury. They have decided to go ahead and convene a grand jury at this time, but that won't even happen until April. So during that particular time, we have told the city manager that he needs to go ahead and take some immediate action and go ahead and terminate the chief of police.
The third thing that we ask for is to -- is for DOJ to come in and investigate the Sanford Police Department. And, of course, with the information that we are going to supply to them, I'm pretty sure they can find a pattern of operation in this department. And, of course, we are asking them, once they find that pattern, to take over the Sanford Police Department.
BALDWIN: It's interesting you choose the word pattern. Given those three goals, I just want to end with this. I was reading one of the comments, one of the city's only black commissioners said, Velma Williams. She was quoted calling all of this -- this shooting in Sanford a national embarrassment. Sir, is it an embarrassment or is it something more than that?
CLAYTON: It's a huge embarrassment for the city of Sanford. It's a huge black eye. And the only way they're going to recover from this is to take some immediate action. The entire nation is watching. And as we -- I just had a meeting with the city manager about 30 minutes ago. And we informed him of that. We also told him that it's time for him to take immediate action and go ahead and terminate the chief of police so that we can start rebuilding in the community.
BALDWIN: We will see what comes out of that news conference that he will be giving in an hour. We'll take it live. Turner Clayton, my thanks to you. I appreciate it. Thank you.
CLAYTON: Thank you. BALDWIN: Coming up, he is accused of killing Jewish children, a rabbi, soldiers, and taking video of all their murders. He is suspected of being trained by al Qaeda. The details of how a standoff -- 32 hour standoff with this man ended, after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Chilling new details about the French gunman whose shooting rampage left seven people dead, including school children and French soldiers. And French television station France 2 (ph), has now identified this man in this video as the gunman. He was 23-year-old Muhammed Merah. Merah is now dead, killed in a hail of bullet that ended with a 32-hour standoff with French police. So, inside his apartment officials say they found videos of all of his shootings. And, in fact, in the first video, showing the shooting of a French soldier in Toulouse back on March 11.
This man told the soldier, quote, "you kill my brothers, I kill you." In another video showing how Merah gunned down two French soldiers last week. He is heard saying Allahu Akbar, God is great.
More new information coming to us now at this hour, we're learning Muhammed Merah had in fact trained at al Qaeda training camp. This according to a U.S. intelligence official who also says Merah was on the no-fly list and had been on the list for quite some time and wouldn't be more specific.
President Obama is putting the fast track on the Keystone pipeline, at least part of it, and Republicans are pushing for the entire project to get going.
We're talking about 700,000 barrels of oil a day if completed and this isn't just any oil story. This is a political story as well and that story after the quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: President Obama announced today he is fast-tracking the southern part of the Keystone XL pipeline. I want to you take a close look here. You see that the green arrow, that's the pointing to the part of the proposed pipeline that flows south of Cushing, Oklahoma all the way down to the Texas Gulf Coast and that's to be fast tracked.
The rest of this pipeline remains on hold while environmental concerns are worked out. This is the president speaking about this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The problem in a place like Cushing is that we're actually producing so much oil and gas in places like North Dakota and Colorado that we don't have enough pipeline capacity to transport all of it to where it needs to go, both to refineries and eventually all across the country and around the world. There is a bottleneck right here because we can't get enough of the oil to our refineries fast enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I want to bring in Oklahoma oil man, Harold Hamm, joins me from Oklahoma City. Mr. Hamm, for transparency sake, I also need to just tell everyone you are Mitt Romney's energy advisor. That said, you heard the president today, big news, good news, right?
HAROLD HAMM, CEO, CONTINENTAL RESOURCES: Yes, it is good. It is really good news that he is pushing for this pipeline and it is certainly needed. The whole pipeline was needed. You know, it is kind of ironic that he is standing in front of the pipe that could be in the ground right now if he hadn't stopped it. It is good that he is pushing for it.
BALDWIN: Let many he get to that point I think you're alluding to. You and some of your colleagues, you write this open letter to the president. It's entitled energy chief's message: actions, not words, will determine energy future.
Your basic message, five paragraphs in, approval of the entire Keystone XL pipeline should happen now, not after the election. Why now?
HAMM: Well, it is needed now. It is costing the consumer money to pump every day and because this oil, he is right, it is bottlenecked in Cushing, Oklahoma, instead of being able to get to the consumers, and to the refineries where we need it. That delay is costing everybody and needs to be done now and instead of after the election, so that's true.
BALDWIN: So how is it costing me more money? Because I thought gas prices were set by speculators. I thought, you know, they're fluctuating based upon, let's say, fears in the market, what's happening with Iran, et cetera. How is this costing me specifically?
HAMM: Well, we're using oil from other places that this oil could get to. Right now, there is a big differential between WTI and Brent prices of about $15 to $18 per barrel. So that converts to almost six cents a gallon.
It is a big amount right there. So my message though is not to be an Obama critic. That's not my message. I am in explorationist. I am one that produced a lot of oil in North Dakota and we found that the largest field ever found in the U.S.
And then in the world for the last 40 years and that's what we're developing up there. There is a whole lot of oil to be developed and that's the biggest point, I think, that I would like to make is that we can be energy self sufficiency, self sufficient, and interdependent here in North America.
And so that's a big factor. There is American energy renaissance going on today and all comes about with horizontal drilling, and it is making a huge impact. We have 100-year supply of natural gas.
And if we weren't held up, you know, didn't have so many hurdles. We could be interdependent here in North America in the next ten years. So that's a big thing that has huge implications.
BALDWIN: And I think no matter what aisle you're on you want the energy independence for the United States. But also part of the story as you talk about this renaissance and you hear politicians even now including the president talk ago lot about the economy and job creation and folks being in the oil man that you are, from folks you are talking to, how many jobs could be created here?
HAMM: About 1.1 million jobs could be created, you know, if given the opportunity. Besides that, you know, the American energy security, the balance of trade, and all of these jobs that are good paying middle class jobs, a lot of these jobs are average jobs in our business about 107,000 a year.
BALDWIN: Hang on. I have to bring you back to that number, 1.1 million because I was talking to the folks at cnnmoney.com and that's the biggest discrepancy here it seems in telling the story.
So when you talk to Transcanada they claim 20,000 and that's the biggest number we saw from Transcanada then you also have 6,000, this is according to the State Department.
And Cornell University reduces it to something like 4,600. Where are you getting the 1.1 million from and how much of that is permanent versus temporary?
HAMM: Yes, this is a recent survey that was done, you know, given our ability to reach energy independence over the next 10 years that 1.1 million jobs could be created. We create a lot of jobs in North Dakota, about close to 50,000 jobs directly related to the industry and in our industry and about five times that number indirect jobs.
BALDWIN: Who did the survey? I missed that.
HAMM: This survey was done by API and several others in conjunction with API and a lot of other industry sources.
BALDWIN: American Petroleum Institute, so they're the ones conducting the survey. OK, that's 1.1 million. That's specific to jobs from the pipeline or you're talking energy in general?
HAMM: No, I am talking energy in general, not just related to this Keystone pipeline, no.
BALDWIN: OK, Harold Hamm, we will see if the rest of this pipeline gets OK'd in this election year. Appreciate your time there for us in Oklahoma. Thank you.
Want to move along want to read a quote here. This is a quote. "I don't want to live in a country where no one ever says anything that offends anyone."
Did you read this, this morning from Bill Maher? He wants people to stop apologizing for things they say. We'll talk to a comedian who says that would be nice. There is a fine line, folks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Some conservatives think Robert de Niro should just stick to the drama after a joke he told the campaign fundraiser attended by the first lady. Here is what he said. Quote, Gingrich, Santorum, Ann Romney, do you really think our country is ready for a white first lady?
Supposedly the joke went over pretty well in the room and they weren't laughing so much when they found about it. The Obama campaign called De Niro's comments, I'm quoting, 'inappropriate' and the actor issued this statement, quote, "My remarks although spoken satirically and in jest were not meant to offend or embarrass anyone especially the first lady." That's not good enough for Newt Gingrich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What De Niro said last night was inexcusable and the president should apologize and it was at an Obama fundraiser. It is wrong and divides the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And here is Robert De Niro's response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Sorry, that was actually a clip from "Taxi Driver." Anyway, look, doesn't seem like the Romneys are taking offense. Here is what Ann Romney told Piers Morgan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANN ROMNEY, MITT ROMNEY'S WIFE: I laughed. You know what? I took it for what it was, a joke. You know, again, we take everything so seriously. We have to be so correct and everyone has got to apologize and I can say, you know what, I can laugh at it.
Let's take it for what it is. We're all overreacting to so many things and making things so difficult, which means we have to watch every single word that comes out of our mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So guess who agrees with Ann Romney who is laughing as well in Bill Maher of all people? He has this op-ed in today's "New York Times" and the title is Please Stop Apologizing. Let me just read part of it. He says, quote, "Let's have amnesty. From the left and the right on every Madoff, totally insincerely play acted, hurt, constitutionality, slight and a front.
If you see or hear something you don't like in the media, just go on with your life. I want to bring in another political comedian Dean Obeidallah. Dean, I am assuming you are agreeing with Mr. Maher here, yes?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, POLITICAL COMEDIAN: I agree with him in principle. I mean, there is this war on comedy going on. I think it is a war we have to get out of much sooner than years and years in later.
It is not helpful, especially when it comes to political comedy and political figures. You know what? We have a great tradition of America using comedy to raise issues, challenge the status quo, challenge people in power and I am afraid that this kind of war in comedy will stifle that.
Overall, I agree with Bill. I have a different opinion on some of the subtleties what Bill said in his article today.
BALDWIN: Well, I'm going to ask you about if you had to issue that in the past. But let me just flip the script and just say, look, what if the roles were reversed, would the media go after an actor that joked about a black first lady?
OBEIDALLAH: I think they probably would to be honest with you. It really depends on the tone and how they said it. I think and I will be honest, I think most Americans know the difference of someone being playful and being demonizing and hateful.
Playful should be protected. We know that. I think there could be something, a joke about a black first lady, and mocking her, Rush Limbaugh made fun of the first lady. Others have.
They've been some pushback against that, but you know what, the joke was funny and he didn't mean anything. He was flipping the old things from four years ago, is America ready for a black president? It was funny. I mean --
BALDWIN: That's all it was?
OBEIDALLAH: We know the difference. Let's be honest. Was he being hateful? Newt Gingrich may be desperate to get in the media as the campaign is falling apart and the party is rejecting him and he is coming to the rest and this is why. He is out of step. He is wrong on this. He is completely wrong on this issue.
BALDWIN: So let me bring this back to Bill Maher. It is a great read whether you agree or not. But isn't it a little self serving?
I mean, certainly of all people Bill Maher has been called onto apologize for many things, many offensive things, what he said about Sarah Palin, which I will not repeat. OBEIDALLAH: Absolutely, and I wrote an op-ed for CNN called stop the war on terror just earlier this week defending Bill Maher's right to say that. When you're attacking a public figure, someone in politics, someone like Sarah Palin who runs to be a heartbeat away from the leader of the free world, you know what, it comes with the territory.
We have to have the freedom to mock our elected officials even with words I might not use or we don't like. That's life. Turn the channel, just like Bill Maher says. But when you are demonizing private citizens or making homophobic racist remarks, you answer for that. That's life.
BALDWIN: What about you? Have you ever crossed the line and said what you said back and I shouldn't have, I am sorry, as I joke you thought initially.
OBEIDALLAH: Sure, sure. I tweet things and get pushback from my Twitter followers going what are you doing? This is wrong, or on Facebook. It is really there. The difference is frankly I will be brutally honest.
If you are famous, you are held to a higher standard. In New York they can say worse things than you ever hear on the TV shows or comments in question. When you are famous on TMZ or a publicist, it crossed from killing the audience to killing your career.
To me it is more the subject matter. Political comedy must be protected like political speech. It is that important. Look at the history we have in America.
Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce went to jail for cursing in New York City in the 60s. The world changed a lot. Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Chris Rock, they raised comedy beyond making people laugh. They're actually affecting public opinion.
BALDWIN: And actually educating people.
OBEIDALLAH: Absolutely. We can't lose that. Sometimes you have to allow insulting things and things you might not like to hear for the god of freedom of expression. That's what we need to protect in America.
BALDWIN: Dean Obeidallah, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on.
Now to this, the young man convicted of spying on his Rutgers University roommate is now speaking out about the death of Tyler Clementi. Find out what is he saying after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The former Rutgers student convicted of a hate crime in the death of his gay roommate is speaking out for the first time. We're talking Dharun Ravi. He talked about why he refused a plea deal in the death of Tyler Clementi. Here is what he said in part, quote. "If I took the plea, I would have had to testify that I did what I did to intimidate Tyler and that would be a lie." The jury as you know found Ravi guilty of spying on Clementi while Clementi was having a sexual encounter with another man.
Ravi shown here with his father could land in jail for 10 years and he gave that interview to "Star-Ledger" columnist Mark Di Ionno and Di Ionno spoke with CNN's Carol Costello this morning by phone. Take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK DI IONNO, COLUMNIST, "THE STAR-LEDGER": He struck me as sincere. He answered some questions with blunt honesty. At one point I ask him about the second night where he was studying and what were you thinking and he said I wasn't.
He said my ego basically, said, got the better of me. I thought it was funny, and he admitted to be the center of attention with his friends. So I do think that he was sincere.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: What struck me in reading your article, he doesn't regret not taking that plea deal, that plea deal wouldn't involve any jail time and now he could go to jail for 10 years.
DI IONNO: Well, I think his father first told me last week about this, the family decision to not accept the bias intimidation plea under any circumstances. They would have pled guilty according to his attorney.
He would have pled guilty to attempted invasion of privacy and he might have pled guilty to invasion of privacy, but middle sex county prosecutor's office was firm in that he accepts the bias intimidation charge as part of the plea.
The family was just vehemently opposed to that, and in the conversation I had with Dharun yesterday, he basically said it would have been a lie to go up and admit that I did what I did out of bias or against Tyler. I didn't feel that way. I didn't do it because I was biased. I did it because I was -- it was prank, knitty. That was my word, not his.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Sentencing for Dharun Ravi is set for May 21.
And you know the saying if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Football sweetheart Tim Tebow headed to the big apple, New York City, so what do you think?
Is he going to make it? Former New York Giants player Armani Timor went through the same thing in New York. We're going to talk about the scrutiny and the things you don't want the press to see next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: So how about this fact. Bring this to dinner. You can already buy Tim Tebow's New Jersey, Jets Jersey. His trade isn't even 24 hours old. You know he is going to New York now that Peyton manning is taking over his old team, the Denver Broncos.
Tim Tebow is already a media lightning rod and the reasons are many. Run through a couple. First, all the predictions he failed in the NFL even after a stellar college career at Florida. Also the improbable trip to the playoffs that he led for the Broncos, remember that one.
And his devout faith that makes him stand out even where everyone thinks god in post game interviews. That's a quick rundown. New York City though it is a totally different ball game.
It is the biggest media market in the entire country. Paparazzi, you know they will pop up all around behind each and every corner hoping to catch Tebow with a drink in his hand or coming out of a strip club and any hit to the squeaky clean image.
It can be very tough even more a man that handled past frenzies with class. I want to bring in someone who knows what I am talking about.
The pressures of playing in New York, a former wide receiver who played 13 seasons, 13, with the New York Giants and Monte, awesome to have you on. You know this first hand. Tell me about the kind of scrutiny players get in the city.
AMANI TOOMER, FORMER NEW YORK GIANTS PLAYER: Excuse me one more time.
BALDWIN: Tell me what kind of scrutiny, what kind pressure you feel playing in New York from the media?
TOOMER: New York is a tough town. People expect you to go out and play to the best of your ability at all times. When you don't, the fans will let you know it. They will boo you.
And for a guy coming from a situation where everybody loves him and coming to New York, they to want see what you will do on the field. They don't care about what happened before. If you don't play well, they will let you hear it.
BALDWIN: Let me ask you about that. Let's say Tebow gets playing time and supposed to be back and gets time and Sanchez isn't playing and say he doesn't deliver. What does it sound like when you are booed by a New York City crowd?
TOOMER: Well, you can take it one or two-way two-ways. You can take it as they don't like you, but what I did is I took it as this crowd sees what I can do and can know I can do better and it is their way of trying to motivate me to do well.
If you take it that way it doesn't bother you so much but some people take it to heart and it is a tough pill to swallow when you are not used to that scrutiny.
BALDWIN: How loud are the boos? Are your ears ringing the next day?
TOOMER: I got booed a little bit.
BALDWIN: Not that you would know, Amani.
TOOMER: It happens to everybody in New York.
BALDWIN: A lot of people wonder whether the city will seduce Tim Tebow. What kind of temptations might he face? You have the girls, the drugs, celebrities, all there in this epicenter.
TOOMER: I don't know about all of that. If you're whatever type of person you are, New York City is not going to change you and he is a strong person, strong in his faith, and I think he will be fine.
New York City is not that place where it makes you turn you into something you are not. You have to really understand who are you and obviously Tim Tebow understands who he is and he understands his faith and I don't see him having any problem being in New York City.
BALDWIN: Sounds like you're agreeing with Urban Myer. I want to read a quote. I read this from "The Times," this morning, the "New York Times."
"I think New York is unique. If there is anyone that can handle it, it is Tim. He is going to handle it the same way he's handled everything since I first met him, up front and first class. He's humble about everything. It's probably a whole different animal in New York but he handles everything the same way."
But here is my but. College ball isn't nearly as scrutinized as pro, as NFL, is it, Amani?
TOOMER: No, not at all.
But if you follow Tim Tebow's career, ever since he has been to the NFL, all of the people that he has grown up watching, all the quarterbacks that he admired growing up, on all of these different stations and all the pundits, they really rip him and the fact he can overcome all of that, with his idols growing up not really giving him much of a chance to be a successful quarterback and him going out and doing it in the fourth quarter to me that is very impressive. That's a skill that I think he can bring to the Jets, that mental toughness that can take them to the next level.
BALDWIN: We shall see. I have seen pictures of Tebowing already around Manhattan. Amani Toomer, I appreciate it. Nice to meet you. Thank you.
