Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Obama On Trayvon Martin Killing; Robert Bales Seventeen Counts Of Murder; Man Pulls A Gun On Reporters; Trayvon Saved Father's Life When Nine; Stand Your Ground; Toxicology Report Reveals Houston's Cause Of Death; Justices to Hear Health Care Fight

Aired March 23, 2012 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It's the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon, Suzanne Malveaux is off. Let's get you up to speed.

President Barack Obama speaking out on the killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin. He says his concern is for the boy's grieving parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son he'd look like Trayvon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Meanwhile, more protests are planned in cities across the nation today. Last night, thousands rallied in Sanford, that's the central Florida town where Martin was killed. Protesters are calling for the arrest of the shooter, neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman. Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense.

Seventeen counts of murder, those are the main charges expected today for army staff sergeant Robert Bales. He is the American soldier accused in the cold blooded killing of Afghan civilians, most of them women and children. Bales remains locked up at Fort Leavenworth.

The Rutgers University student convicted of spying on his gay roommate says he wasn't trying to intimidate him. A jury convicted Dharun Ravi of bias intimidation and invasion of privacy in the case of Tyler Clementi. Clementi committed suicide after a Web cam video of him and another man was circulated. In an ABC interview, Ravi says he doesn't think his opinion mattered that much to Clementi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DHARUN RAVI: He knew that I wasn't trying to, like, intimidate him because he was gay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel confident of that.

RAVI: Yes, I feel confident of that. I mean, after all this time and reading his conversations and how -- what was -- what he was doing before, I really don't think he cared at all. I feel like I was an insignificant part of his life. So, that's giving me comfort now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: They went from reporting the news to becoming the big story. That's what happened to a reporter and a photographer at our affiliate WREG in Memphis. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

APRIL THOMPSON, REPORTER, WREG: We were just trying to find out what was going on, that's all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody is lying (INAUDIBLE.) Man, look, get the camera away from me.

THOMPSON: No, no -- now, you can't touch the camera, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You really --

THOMPSON: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're leaving. We're leaving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. You see that? That is a gun. April Thompson was looking for answers about the death of a local man, but a friend of the family wasn't too happy about her questions pulling a gun and forcing Thompson and her colleague to leave. Luckily, no one was hurt in this incident. Unbelievable. WREG says the man has since turned himself in. Ridiculous.

President Obama is speaking out for the first time on the killing of unarmed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin. The 17-year-old was gunned down by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman. Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense.

CNN's White House correspondent Dan Lothian joins us now live from the White House. Dan, it's a very interesting moment that we have found ourselves in. I'm not sure if you heard my conversation with John Lewis. He spoke about the president's comments, and reiterated he feels the same way as the president. And the president making that statement today, a very powerful one at that.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And you know, it was quite unusual for the president to address this question today. It was after he was making his announcement for a nomination for the head of the world bank, and often times we throw questions at the president during events at the Rose Garden or in the East Room or elsewhere here on the White House grounds, and if the president doesn't want to talk about it, most of the time, he will just pivot and walk away.

But today, he was asked a question on this issue and he weighed in, I'm told by a White House aide, that this is something that the president had been thinking about in very personal terms for some time. And today, he decided to speak out, even though he also said he wanted to be cautious because his own Justice Department is involved in the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LOTHIAN: The president said that it's imperative that this investigation play out as federal, state, and local authorities look into this to try to figure out exactly what is behind this tragedy -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Dan Lothian now at the White House. Dan, thank you very much for that. In the meantime, the father of Trayvon Martin is remembering his son as a hero. Tracy Martin told CBS this morning that Trayvon saved him from a fire when he was just a little boy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRACY MARTIN: He was my hero. And he will be sadly missed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why was he your hero?

MARTIN: Trayvon saved my life at the age of nine. He pulled me out of a fire, went back in the house, got the phone, came back out, called 911. He saved my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Operation protests spreading over the killing of the unarmed youth. George Howell is our man on the ground in Sanford, Florida. George, you were at that press conference we just heard from the city manager. He is saying that the police chief who has stepped aside is still being paid, could be reinstating -- reinstated depending the outcome of this investigation. How did that go over among the crowd, among the people who were there?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, all journalists here, no bystanders, people, citizens to really hear this and react to it. But again, as you mentioned, we learned more about the police chief, how the city manager will evaluate whether the police chief gets his job back. Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORTON BONAPARTE JR., CITYT MANAGER ,SANFORD ,FLORIDA Once I have a report that demonstrates to me and which shows me the actions of the police department and how they performed in this instance, that is what temporary is. Once I have it, then I can make a determination regarding chief Lee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: Don, we also learned that the special prosecutor-- the new special prosecutor, will meet with police officers -- will meet at this police department at 1:30, so that process is also kicking off -- Don.

LEMON: And he said that -- I thought it was also interesting, George, that he said that the trust that we had that existed is no longer and they were going to have to work to rebuild that trust and especially in the wake of all these protests not only locally but nationally. You and I talked about one -- there was one live as we were on last hour, and there it is right there at a south Florida high school. They're in human letters T.M. on their football field. More protests going on, George, that you know about?

HOWELL: There are. I fact, including this one, there were four other protests, four other student walkouts in Miami. And this happened, Don, just the other day when students walked out carrying iced tea and skittles in their hands, the same things that Trayvon Martin had in his hands the day that he was killed, February 26th.

We also know about rallies in Atlanta that happened today at the University Center. Civil rights leaders and students -- student leaders coming together to protest, and, Don, a busy schedule over the weekend. We know in Norfolk, Virginia also in Greenville, South Carolina rallies are scheduled.

And then on Monday, Don, here in Sanford, we know that people will come together at a church. They will March to city hall for a city commissioner meeting. The city commissioner meeting usually happens right here, but because of the anticipated size of people coming in, a lot of people coming in from all over, they moved this regular meeting to the civic center. So, we'll see a march to the civic center then -- Don.

LEMON: All right. George Howell, thank you very much. Appreciate your reporting. We'll see you throughout the day here on CNN.

George Zimmerman claims self-defense when he called Trayvon -- when he killed Trayvon Martin. Police did not arrest him under Florida's stand your ground self-defense law. My colleague, Carol Costello, talked to the Florida state representative who co-authored the legislation for the controversial law. Here is Dennis Baxley and what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DENNIS BAXLEY (R), FLORIDA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: There's a lot of misconceptions about how to apply this law. There's nothing in this statute -- this is a self-protection statute, nothing in this statute that authorizes anybody to pursue and confront another individual on the street.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In your mind, George Zimmerman, should he -- should he be charged with a crime?

BAXLEY: I don't like to speculate. I think it's the Grand Jury's responsibility to sort all this out. But quite frankly, anyone who steps out in a pursuit and confrontational mode with a fire arm, they're not covered. That's not a self-protection act.

COSTELLO: The police don't understand the law. They're the very people that should easily understand the law, so they can apply it when they're thinking about placing someone under arrest.

BAXLEY: That's a good thing that could come out of this very tragic situation, and that is a clarification of how this law is to be applied. When you have someone carrying a firearm on a crime watch mission, and then actually ignoring the dispatcher's guidance that we don't need you to do that, then I think that's a very different situation and I think it's been misapplied.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So far, George Zimmerman has not been arrested.

A rundown now of some of the stories we're covering for you next hour here on CNN. First, the army sergeant accused of gunning down Afghan civilians had a string of troubles long before he got on the battlefield.

And for many black parents, it can mean the difference between life and death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

The best thing you can do that me and daddy think you should do is to be very polite, very polite, and say, I'm visiting someone. Tell them exactly what you're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Why something called the talk has become even more important since the killing of Trayvon Martin. Then, nearly seven weeks ago, family friends and friends mourn the loss of superstar Whitney Houston, now a toxicology report reveals the cause of her death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Today is the day we expect to hear the formal charges facing U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Robert Bales. He is the soldier accused of leaving his base in Afghanistan earlier this month and killing 16 civilian men, women, and children. People in two parts of the world are watching to hear these formal charges. Here in the United States, of course, and in Afghanistan as well. CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Seattle and spoke with Bales' defense lawyer just a little while ago, and you see Sara Sidner covering the other side of the story in Afghanistan as well. First to you, Miguel. Miguel, you talked to Bales' lawyer, John Henry Brown, he told you it will be a tough case for the government to try. Why does he say that?

MARQUEZ: Well, he says that the government doesn't have a crime scene basically. The bodies were buried. There is no blood evidence. There's no ballistic evidence. There's no fingerprints. He says the government is going to have a very tough time proving its case against Staff Sergeant Bales, and he is going to make them prove every point that they contend.

LEMON: So, if the prosecution is going to have a tough time, as he said, I would imagine -- I don't know if he's right about that because all of this happened in a war zone. Did he give you an idea of how he'll go about making this particular case, Miguel?

MARQUEZ: Yes. And in addition to them having a tough time with the forensics, it's going to be a tough time getting witnesses as well. And that's one thing he wants to do. He says that he is going to have a tough time, and he has to get to Afghanistan in order to survey what they say the crime scene is, survey witnesses, survey the situation there. He says the military is being very helpful in that effort, that they are going to take him to Afghanistan, facilitate his trip there. Would not say exactly when that would happen but thought it would happen soon, days, weeks perhaps.

LEMON: OK. And I saw -- I've seen a couple interviews with him early on when he first met with Bales. He said that he was in shock. He didn't remember a big part of the incident. So, what is he saying about his client's state of mind now? Is he talking more about that, Miguel?

MARQUEZ: Well, he says that he had a very long conversation with him off the bat to get a full scope of this guy's career and his feelings about what was going on in Afghanistan and Iraq and all these different places. He says that, you know, his defense appears to be going along two lines. First, this whole idea that the prosecution will have to prove its point, but then also that Mr. Bales' state of mind. He says that, you know, that his competency will come into play in this trial. And that's one thing that he will be talking about.

It appears that he and Mr. Bales are speaking regularly. He says that he can talk to him. There are others listening in, so it's not clear how freely he can talk to him at this point by phone. And Bales' wife has had a second conversation with her husband. On Wednesday night she was able to talk to him. Their first conversation was in Kuwait. So it seems that he is communicative and helping out.

LEMON: Interesting. Miguel Marquez in Seattle. Thank you, Miguel.

I want to go now to Sara Sidner, Kabul, Afghanistan, where people there want the accused soldier to face justice in Afghanistan.

So, Sara, why do they want this to happen?

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they feel that the person who is responsible for this, whoever it is, should be tried right here in the country in a public forum so that everyone can see the process and so it's open. But they're also asking for something else. Something that we know will not happen. They're asking for him to be charged under Islamic law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We demand from the court and the United States to give the death penalty to the U.S. soldier who massacred the civilians. He must be hanged because he deserves the biggest punishment. We want a punishment based on Islamic Sharia law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This massacre by the U.S. soldier is against all human law. He murdered 16 civilians with no reason. He must be hanged because he committed a big crime. We demand the death punishment for him, for it to be a lesson to other foreigners in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And as we know, he could face the death penalty. But as you know, the justice system works in its own time. This is not something that can quickly happen. He has a defense lawyer. He is innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution has to prove that he did what he's accused of. So this can be a lengthy process. Something that perhaps people here in the village setting don't really understand.

Don.

LEMON: Sara Sidner, Kabul, Afghanistan. Appreciate your reporting on this. Thank you, Sara.

The court battle over health care is on. It's been two years since President Barack Obama signed health care reform, but the U.S. Supreme Court could overturn it. We'll tell you what that means to you right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Barack Obama's health care law, all 2,700 pages of it, lands on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court next week. It is a fight that started two year ago. Our congressional correspondent is Kate Bolduan and she is live now in Washington for us.

Hi, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Hey there, Don.

LEMON: Hey, so what's -- what are the arguments here? Who has a beef with the central provision of this law?

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, this is a huge case when you look at not only the actual policy implications, but when you also look at the political implications. First of all, what are we expecting next week. This is something that really rarely happens. How much time the Supreme Court justices are giving to this one case. There are four central -- there are four issues for questions that the court is going to consider. This is going to happen over six hour that's going to spread through three days of oral arguments. Monday through Wednesday. I will be in the courtroom for all of that. And that rarely happens. And that shows just how important this case really is.

Of the four issues, they can get very legally dense. But it really comes down to and hinges on one central issue. The question of the individual mandate. The part of the health care law that really has been the most controversial part all along, Don. The part that requires that nearly every American purchase, have health insurance by -- starting in 2014 or they will have to pay a penalty. Hours after the health care law went into effect, states across the country began filing lawsuits. Twenty-six states are challenging this law calling it unconstitutional. They will be arguing, of course, against it, saying that, you know, the health care law needs to be struck down. The Obama administration will be defending the law in court. And that's really where the central issue is on this individual mandate, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And the timing is significant. It's an election year, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Oh, I mean, it really is huge. Not only -- I mean this law is important. It impacts every American. Thus the rulings on this Supreme Court case is going to impact every American. So everyone will need to watch there.

But we cannot forget about the political implications here. It is -- it's pretty amazing that this decision, this argument and the decision will come smack dab in the middle of an election season. And we also really can't overstate how important the political implications are then.

We know that all the Republican candidates have been running against the health care law. Republicans calling it Obamacare. It's been a regular part of their stump speech. And President Obama, this has been a signature achievement of Mr. Obama's presidency, this health care reform legislation. So he himself has a ton at stake here. And it will definitely be a very important part of the election coming -- going forward.

LEMON: Kate, pack your lunch, use the restroom, whatever. You're going to be watching this for a while. You won't go far from the --

BOLDUAN: Lots of coffee ahead of time. No, I'm just kidding.

LEMON: Thank you very much, Kate Bolduan. Appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

LEMON: President Barack Obama said Trayvon Martin's death particularly resonated with him as an African-American parent. I'll talk -- as a parent in general. I'm going to talk to a mom who had the talk with her son, teaching him how to save his life if stopped by anyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I'm going to give you a rundown of the stories that we're working on for you here on CNN.

Next it's called the talk, OK? And many black parents hope it will keep their sons safe. You're going to hear the words of one mother, the words she spoke to her little boy.

Then, new details in the death of Whitney Houston. What a toxicology report says about the singer's final moments.

And later, Jerry Sandusky's defense team wants those sex abuse charges dismissed. We're going to discuss their strategy coming up.

Let's go back to our lead story now. The shooting of Trayvon Martin hits close to home for many African-Americans. Black parents raise their children to be wary of possible confrontation with police and other authorities. Lynne Varner, a columnist with "The Seattle Times" newspaper says she has had the talk with her son like so many other black parents and she says it is a rite of passage. Varner writes about it in her column and she joins me now live from Seattle.

And, yes, it is a rite of passage. Having lived it, I know it. And here it is, you know, 20 years after, maybe even more, of being a youth and having the talk with my parents and it's still happening, Lynne.

LYNNE VARNER, COLUMNIST, "SEATTLE TIMES": And it's an ugly rite of passage, but it's a necessary one.

You know, I was on the fence because I wanted to let my son be innocent for just a little while longer, but at the same time, I was looking at these pictures of Trayvon Martin and I just thought, that could be my son, tall, wearing a hoodie, going -- walking around to see his friends, talking on his cell phone, looking a little bit like a little boy, but also looking like a young man. And I just realized, it was time to have that kind of tough conversation.

And it's tough because I've raised him. I quote Shakespeare to him and I tell him the world is your oyster. Your job is to feast. But now I have to tell him, well, the world is also full of people that may think just because of the color of your skin that you're up to no good and you've got to be mindful of that.

LEMON: Hey, Katie (ph), you guys, do we have video of Lynne? Do we have sound of her doing -- giving the talk? No. If we do, let me know in my ear. OK.

What did -- what did you say to your -- what do you say to him?

VARNER: I told him that as we've always said, when people of authority stop you and question you, you are to be polite and courteous. And we've always said that. Teachers, the school principal, the police officer around the corner, be courteous. But now we have to also tell him that, as we said, these people, these authority figures, they're there to keep you safe, but some of them may have the wrong idea about you. Therefore, you have to remain calm, remain courteous, speak honestly. If someone says, what are you doing here, what are you doing in this neighborhood? Well, that's a really insulting question. My son could be there for any number of reasons, but he has to answer that question and save the hurt for later. But the bigger thing with that --

LEMON: This is you talking to your son. This is you talking to your son, Lynne. What's your son's name? How old is he?

VARNER: Yes. Yes. Jackson and he's 11.

LEMON: Jackson. Eleven years old. And we're going -- I'm going to get you talking to him. Let's listen in. Then I'll get your response. Jackson and his mom.

VARNER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VARNER: The best thing you can do that me and daddy think you should do, is to be very polite, very polite, and say I'm visiting someone. Tell them exactly what you're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What did he say? How did he respond?

VARNER: He understood, because we've put it in clear terms. It could be a matter of life or death. There are no do-overs for Trayvon Martin. He can't change the situation, and so we made it clear to my son that you have that one opportunity to affect the outcome. So he understood -- I think he's a little overwhelmed, as any child would be, that he might one day be in that situation.

LEMON: Lynne, these are great conversations that we're having and we've had during these two hours that I have been on here, hour and a half so far that I have been on here, and I would like to go on. But just in the short time left, is this just a black problem? Is it just black kids and black mothers and black families?

VARNER: Oh, no. Oh, no. And that is what I keep saying, that my White colleagues, my Asian colleagues, Trayvon is all of our son. And the reason why is because any of us could have a child who's walking in a neighborhood where he's not recognized. He's on the phone talking with his friends. He's enjoying life as a kid would do. And he could be mistaken for something else or he could be assumed because of the way he's walking, the way he's got his hand in his pocket, that he's up to something. That could happen to any of us. And so that's why we all have to be outraged.

But one last thing. Particularly, out here --

LEMON: Quickly.

VARNER: -- on the west coast where there's a large number of blended families. Everybody has somebody of a different race in their family nowadays. It could be your black cousin by marriage. It could be -- Trayvon could have been anyone's child. LEMON: Lynne, I'm sorry, I hate to cut you off, Lynne Varner, but we do have to go. Thank you. We appreciate you sharing such a personal story with us, to the nation. Thank you.

VARNER: Absolutely. Thank you.

LEMON: More conversations like that we're going to be having this weekend when you join me, and you should, at 7:00 p.m. tomorrow, Saturday, a one-hour special on the Trayvon Martin killing. As the national outrage intensifies one group in particular caught our attention and that's minority mothers, like Lynne. Hear their unique perspective and the advice they give their children in hopes they don't end up dying young. You will hear from friends and family of Trayvon Martin and the admitted shooter. "The Trayvon Martin Killing," that's 7:00 eastern right here on CNN. I'll be hosting. Make sure you tune in.

Justice for Trayvon Martin. Students all over the country, rallying for the unarmed teen who was gunned down in Florida. We'll speak to two college students who plan to skip classes to join the movement.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The outrage spreading, the number of protests growing in the case of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager shot and killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer. Students are leading many of those protests on high school and college campuses and beyond. There's one right there, Miami High School. They staged a walkout and they marked the letters, human letters "For T.M.," for Trayvon Martin, in honor of him.

Rashad Raymond Moore and Dane Jones, students at Morehouse College in Atlanta, they're planning to take part in a protest and march on Monday.

Thanks for joining us -- Rashad.

RASHAD RAYMOND MOORE, STUDENT: Thank you for having us.

LEMON: Dane?

DANE JONES, STUDENT: Thank you having me.

LEMON: We're not keeping you away from classes, right?

JONES: No, sir.

LEMON: This is important.

MOORE: This is more important.

LEMON: Tell us about this march. Where is it going to be? Why. Obviously, you're outraged.

MOORE: It's taking place Monday afternoon at 5:00 in front of the state capitol here in Atlanta, the state capital of Georgia. While the nation and the world is focusing on this case, the sad reality is, the same law that is excusing Zimmerman for the crime is on the books in Georgia as well. We're asking for our lawmakers to reconsider that law, put more specificity to that to avoid this from happening again.

LEMON: All right. So this whole thing, Dane, has been power to the people. That's what everyone is saying. This is the power of the people to get things done. You saw the police chief stepped aside. They appointed someone else, the grand jury. All of that. The movement that has happened on this story, they believe it's come from the people. What do you think is motivating young people, especially students, to get involved?

JONES: Well, I think the main motivation is that the case of Trayvon Martin could have been any of us, right? What does suspicion look like has become the question online and on college campuses.

LEMON: You said the question online. I said I'm doing a special Saturday at 7:00 p.m. What do you want to know? Everyone says, where is George Zimmerman. And the next question is, why hasn't he been arrested? But what are those conversations like that you are having on campuses?

MOORE: One of the conversations is the reality of race in a, quote, "post-racial society." We're glad that President Obama spoke up today, but we realize that, though Trayvon was younger than us in Florida, clearly, he could have been a student heading to Morehouse next year. And we wear hoodies in solidarity because whether they read Harvard, Columbia, Spellman, we're all suspicious. So I think this case, though Zimmerman may be arrested, he may not, the reality is, from these conversations that are going on, students are reconsidering their vocations, reconsidering their callings in life. Maybe they'll recommit themselves to law.

LEMON: You said they all look suspicious and you're wearing a hoodie. Did you wear it on purpose?

MOORE: I did.

LEMON: Put it up. You look like a student now. Put the back of it up for me.

MOORE: OK.

LEMON: Does he look suspicious?

MOORE: He looks very suspicious.

LEMON: You think so?

MOORE: If I take off my glasses, I will even look more suspicious.

LEMON: I know you're joking. But I see people dressed like you all the time and it never crosses my mind that anyone in a hoodie is suspicious, especially if they're wearing -- you can be suspicious wearing anything.

MOORE: You can.

LEMON: So conversations, Dane, that you're having, the real conversations? Be honest with me.

JONES: The real conversations are centered around whether or not we should allow laws that are on the books right now that really allow discretion to police departments to decide how these laws are interpreted or laws that are very similar to the one that's involved in this case. We need to get them removed. That's what the conversation is about.

LEMON: See, you have moved beyond the passion and the outrage into, how do we affect change in this particular instance.

MOORE: Right. Right.

LEMON: -- and across the country with this. That's where you said it's going now?

JONES: That's where the students are.

LEMON: Why?

JONES: Because we realize that the passion and the outrage has to be connected to what we can do to move forward and to make things better, to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

MOORE: We're also encouraging students to go beyond protesting on Facebook and Twitter, though that is good.

LEMON: Right.

MOORE: You have to get out, educate yourself, and deeply understand, what is the cause at the root of this problem.

LEMON: Rashad, Dane, thank you very much.

MOORE: A pleasure to be here.

JONES: Thank you.

LEMON: You're wearing the hoodie there. It gives impact.

JONES: Thank you very much.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you.

Let's talk about something else that happened on another college campus. A Rutgers University student convicted of spying on his gay roommate is speaking out. But he hasn't even been sentenced yet. Is this a shrewd legal move or a mistake? We're going to ask an expert in our "Legal Briefs" today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: It was a case that put cyber bullies and homophobia in the national spotlight. Now a Rutgers University student convicted of spying on and intimidating his gay roommate, is speaking out in a television interview. That's part of today's "Legal Brief."

The roommate of Tyler Clementi -- he committed suicide after web cam video of him and another man was circulated. A jury convicted Dharun Ravi of invasion of privacy and bias intimidation.

CNN legal contributor, Paul Callan, joins me now live.

Paul, thank you so much. Good to talk to you.

Dharun Ravi is scheduled to be sentenced on May 21st. It is unusual for him to be doing TV interviews before being sentenced?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: This is highly unusual to see a defendant in a criminal case go on television before sentencing. Lawyers are usually fearful the client will say something to damage his position. But, you know, in this case, the case went so badly for the defense, and I think part of the reason it went badly was that Ravi never took the stand to explain his own position, to really create a little sympathy for himself, and I think now they're trying to play catch-up and do that publicly since they didn't do it in the courtroom during the trial.

LEMON: We can all relate, most of us can relate to being a young person, doing something silly being in college, and would you want to be judged by that, Paul, I think is probably what they're trying to get across. Would you want to be judged by the mistakes you made when you were in college, and you were just wet behind the ears?

CALLAN: That's exactly what they're trying to get across. This case -- boy, I'll tell you, people have radically different views about this case. A lot of people say, he's just an adolescent kid who played a stupid joke. And he's facing, by the way, 10 years in prison under this strict, strict invasion of privacy and bias intimidation law.

But the other side of the coin here is that cyber bullying and the use of the Internet to harass and abuse people has really been a national problem. And it's not like the old days when, you know, you'd spread a rumor about somebody, three or four people would hear it. You post it on the Internet now --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Everyone --

CALLAN: -- thousands of people may hear it.

LEMON: And it's there for the world in perpetuity. Here's the thing too. I want to get to this. In an interview, Ravi said he's not biased against homosexuals. Listen to this and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you hate gay people?

DHARUN RAVI, CONVICTED RUTGERS UNIVERSITY STUDENT: I don't hate gay people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you fear gay people?

RAVI: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to not be around gay people?

RAVI: I don't -- it doesn't matter to me at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. What do you think? He says he is not biased against gay people. What do you make of that because that's not exactly what he was convicted of, right?

CALLAN: Well, no. He was specifically convicted of having hatred toward gay people. It was a bias intimidation crime. And the claim is that the only reason he broadcast the footage of Tyler Clementi kissing a man was in order to harass him because he was gay.

As you can see though -- I find it interesting when I'm watching that interview, Don. Ravi is kind of flat in his approach. It's sort of an emotion-free presentation. And I'm sure his lawyers didn't put him on the stand at the time of trial for that reason, because they probably thought, you know something? The jury is not going to be sympathetic toward him. Now, could this be a cultural difference because he's Indian? He's here on a visa. And this may just be a cultural thing, that he presents differently maybe than an American kid would present. I think they were afraid a jury wouldn't get it, wouldn't understand him.

LEMON: Paul, we got to go. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

CALLAN: OK. Nice being with you, Don.

LEMON: Same here.

It's likely that you have eaten pink slime. Sounds gross. It is ammonia-treated beef. Parts that -- beef parts that's used as a filler in ground beef. Two major supermarkets will stop selling it. And we'll talk about how it affects your health next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, this just into CNN. We told you -- and we had it here live -- President Obama speaking out about Trayvon Martin, saying, if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin. The Martin family has responded to that, and I'm reading it. This is from the family, saying, "It's humbling that President Obama took time out from his busy schedule to talk about Trayvon and offer his support of the Department of Justice and other organizations. His personal comments touched us deeply and made us wonder, if his son looked like Trayvon and wore a hoodie, would he be suspicious, too. We would like to thank the president and the millions of people from around the world who have shown support for Trayvon by having hoodie rallies and social media. We're working to get justice for Trayvon and also to ensure that this kind of senseless tragedy doesn't happen to another child."

That's coming from the family speaking out about the president's comments earlier today. We'll follow up. My colleague, Brooke Baldwin, in the studio, getting ready to talk more about that.

In the meantime, nothing about it sounds appetizing -- pink slime in ground beef. That's how some refer to the filler in ground beef. The industry calls it lean, finely textured beef. Some grocery chains are vowing not to sell ground beef with this filler. That includes Kroger and Safeway. Officials say it does no harm and many people have already eaten it.

If you mention the name Jon Huntsman, you think of the former Republican presidential candidate, but it's not him in the news today. But it's not the GOP hopeful in the news today. It's his dad, Jon Huntsman Sr. Huntsman Sr is a billion with a passion for giving. Dr. Sanjay Gupta tells us about his latest mission and why it means so much to him.

(HUMAN FACTOR)

LEMON: the autopsy says Whitney Houston drowned. That's no it. Next up, we're going to look at the report and talk more about addiction. Moments away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: She was known as the voice, but Whitney Houston's gift was silenced forever last month after an accidental drowning in a Beverly Hills hotel bathtub. That's the initial finding of the L.A. coroner. The report adds that heart disease and cocaine also played a role.

Joining me now, from New York, Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "Jane Velez-Mitchell" on HLN. And she's also the author of a book called "Addict Nation, An Intervention for America." She knows all about this.

Jane, let's get right to it. It says drowning, but the coroner said she did cocaine immediately before her heart gave out. She slipped under the water.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she also had in her system, Don, pot, xanax, Flexeril and Benadryl. This is uppers, it is downers. If it was a drug cocktail. There needs to be -- and I say this as a recovering alcoholic with hopefully, April 1st, 17 years of sobriety -- this is a wake-up call for America, because her binge could have been triggered by a doctor giving her those powerful mood-altering meds. What doctor in their right mind would give one of the most famous singers, who has publicly struggled with drug abuse, heavy duty drugs that are powerful mood-alters, like Xanax and Flexeril? That should be investigated. That's absolute irresponsibility. And it could have triggered her binge.

LEMON: And it is a wake-up call also about the stigma when it comes to addiction. We need to remove that stigma and give people treatment so that don't end up sadly like Whitney Houston.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There's so much misinformation out there. Her friends, who thought they were supporting her, when they said, oh, she's cured from the hard stuff, now she can go out and have champagne. It doesn't work that way. Either you're sober and not on any mood-altering substances or you're not -- if we learn that one thing.

Also, the coroner talked about chronic drug use. Who was supplying her? When you're Whitney Houston, you can not go out and score on your own. Who was the person? Was this somebody in her inner circle? Remember, she took the cocaine, according to the coroner, immediately prior to her collapse, but there was no residue found in the room? Was the room cleaned up? There are a lot of unanswered questions here.

LEMON: So many -- so many questions.

We will be watching you tonight at 7:00, Jane.

Let's get the book up again. It's called "Addict Nation." Jane Velez-Mitchell's book on this particular subject about drug abuse, alcohol abuse.

Thank you, Jane.

7:00, HLN, we'll be watching.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with my colleague, who's got a whole lot in store for you, Brooke Baldwin.

Hello, Brooke.