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President Obama Comments on Florida Shooting Death; Afghan Massacre Charges Filed; Woman Caught Lying over Jury Duty; President Gets Heckled; Etch a Sketch Politics; At Least 36 Dead in Syria; EU Targets Assad's Wife

Aired March 23, 2012 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's roll on top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. A lot more in our breaking story today with the past few minutes, we have now gotten word that charges have now been filed against Staff Sergeant Robert Bales.

Bales charged with 17 counts of murder for that massacre in Afghanistan a couple of weeks ago. I first want to go straight to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas to Ted Rowlands.

And Ted, we know that that is where Bales is being held. Again, I just want to hone in on this number 17. We know this is 17 counts of murder, not 16. Is there any explanation why that is? We were told all along it was 16 people that died back on that Sunday and not 17.

ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke. And we don't know yet what the 17th murder victim -- why the discrepancy, but we did just get a release saying that it does have nothing to do with a pregnant woman. There was a lot of talk that maybe one of the victims was pregnant and maybe in an advanced stage of pregnancy.

We just got word that that is not the case and we will get more information as to the specific charges out of Joint Base Lewis-McChord in the next few hours.

BALDWIN: Then we have seen the press release, but do -- Ted, do we actually have the filing itself? And if not yet, do we know when we will get it?

ROWLANDS: We don't have it yet.

And we have just been informed that basically what they have done is transferred this investigation from Afghanistan to the United States. It's being picked up out of Joint Base Lewis-McChord, which does answer one of our other questions, where would he be tried, where would the court-martial take place. It now seems that they will be at his home base up in the state of Washington in Tacoma, Washington, but we don't have the official charging documents. That's why we can't answer the question of what's that 17th charge.

BALDWIN: OK, I know we're working on it. Lot of people asking that same question. Ted Rowlands, I appreciate you there in Kansas.

I do want to go many, many thousand miles away to Afghanistan where we have standing Sara Sidner by in the capital city of Kabul.

Sara, I know you have been covering this essentially from the beginning and I understand since the news of the charges has been dropped in the last half-hour or so, there's already been reaction from Afghanistan, specifically the Taliban. What have they said?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's true.

We got a message -- specifically I got a message sent to me by e- mail from a commander from the Taliban. And I just want to read it, the top part of it here and it says: "The Taliban will take strong revenge for the Panjwai incident," referring to the massacre that happened on March 11, "and many other crimes from the American soldiers. We do not believe in these American courts and reject the decision of these courts. The courts are not reliable."

So that is the response from the Taliban as these charges are coming down and I want to speak a little bit to the discrepancy between what the Afghan officials is the number 16 people who were killed and six people who were injured. We have the list of the dead right here. The names, full names of the dead and the injured (AUDIO GAP) now been able to leave the hospital. They had bullet wounds. Both were children. All six are expected to survive. We still have that number 16 when we're hearing from the International Security Assistance Forces through a press release that they are looking at charging Mr. Bales with 17 counts of murder.

We asked why that was, why there is a discrepancy. And they say they believe they have evidence of 17 murders -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sara Sidner for us in Afghanistan, Sara, appreciate that.

I do want to go to New York because I want to talk about really what is next legally.

I want to bring in Jeffrey Toobin. He's our senior legal analyst here at CNN.

First, Jeff, just reacting, 17 counts of murder, six attempted, what's your reaction?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It's obviously a monstrous crime if it took place.

His lawyers have two immediate priorities. The first is delay. Get this case on the slow track because people are still highly exercised about it. It's a major military, foreign policy event. Get this case off the front pages. The second objective is to establishment that Bales is a very damaged man psychologically, that physically he's someone who is not fully responsible for his own actions.

That might take the form of an insanity defense, but more likely as mitigation to try to save him from the death penalty. That's really what his lawyers are going to be thinking about, proving he is not someone who deserves to be executed. That's their only priority.

BALDWIN: Let me pick up with your point on potentially insanity because all these terms are being thrown about. Not a lot of people know. We talk about Article 32, the evidentiary hearing or the 706 board. I want to be specific here as we talked about the 706 board perhaps to your point there.

I know this is a group of mental health experts who decided if the state of the state of his mental health may be a factor in his defense, is that correct, 706?

TOOBIN: That's right. It's roughly analogous to Article 32, sort of like a grand jury, which moves it to an indictment. Then there's an evaluation of his mental state.

And given that the defense appears to have something to work with, the fact that he had a serious head injury, that may be what gets this case to a resolution that involves something other than execution. Bales is not going anywhere. He's not being released. He's not going to get acquitted in any, you know, understandable sense. But they're going to try to avoid execution. That's the only thing they care about.

BALDWIN: From my understanding from the guidance with our Pentagon folks, I think he faces the 706 board, these mental health folks even before the Article 32. If they deem him not mentally capable to then go on to an Article 32, let alone a court-martial, then what?

TOOBIN: Well, then he waits. Then they treat him and try to get him healthy enough to stand trial. It's actually somewhat analogous to what's going on with the shooter in those awful Tucson murders where Congresswoman Giffords was injured.

There you have a situation where the defendant is in prison awaiting trial, but the question is, is he fit to stand trial? A military version of that kind of inquiry is what's going to on go on with Bales.

BALDWIN: What do you also make of this attorney Mr. Browne coming forward? We known he's met with Sergeant Bales twice at Fort Leavenworth this week. He's come forward and said, look, there really isn't that much forensic evidence. What do you make of that?

TOOBIN: I think this is in a very early stage. This is going to be very difficult for the military to bring the evidence, because gathering the evidence in Afghanistan means going into a war zone, where there are a lot of people who want to kill Americans. This will be extremely dangerous to collect evidence.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Bales and his attorney are entitled under military or any kind of law to say hey, you're accusing me of murder, prove it. Where's the evidence? Where's the forensics? Where's the evidence that I did that? And this is going to be extremely difficult. I don't think it's going to be impossible, but the military is likely to spend years pulling this case together.

BALDWIN: That's what I wanted to ask about. We keep hearing this could take years and years. Why is that? Why can't the military put this man on trial in a reasonable amount of time and just let justice be served in a swift but orderly fashion?

TOOBIN: In the American legal system, civilian or military, due process takes a lot of time.

And here, when you're gathering evidence thousands of miles away in an extremely dangerous place, that's difficult and it takes time. Here you have issues of Bales' mental state, psychological and psychiatric investigations. Those take time. And all of this means at least months and perhaps even a year or two until you're looking at a trial.

BALDWIN: Jeff Toobin, appreciate your legal expertise as always. The thought of it taking years, unreal. Thank you.

We are just getting word here, more breaking news in the world of weather. We have gotten word that a tornado is on the ground in Kentucky just south of Louisville. We're getting video here of the damage. You can see it right there. I don't know if that's parts of a home, who knows what that is. Trees down, we have got more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, we mentioned this just before the break, breaking news here. Look at these pictures. We're going to walk through these with Chad in a minute, what appears to be tornado damage in Kentucky right now.

These are live pictures actually from Fern Creek, Kentucky. This is south of Louisville.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

BALDWIN: Meantime, President Obama comes out, surprises everyone by commenting today on the Florida teen shot by that neighborhood watch volunteer. You name his name now, Trayvon Martin, not armed when a neighborhood watch captain shot him he says in self-defense.

President Obama said his main message today was to Trayvon Martin parents. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And, you know, I think they are right to expect that all of us, as Americans, are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight Sanford to John Zarrella.

We now know there has been a response from Trayvon Martin's parents to the president there today. What they saying?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: That is absolutely right and that response came out almost immediately after the president's very heartfelt remarks there.

The parents, Trayvon Martin's parents, said -- and I'm going to read the quote -- "The president's personal comments touched us deeply and made us wonder, if his son looked like Trayvon and wore a hoodie, would he be suspicious, too?" They went on to say: "We would like to thank the president and the millions of people from around the world who have shown their support for Trayvon by participating in hoodie marches, rallies or through social media. We are all working together to not only get justice for Trayvon, but also to ensure that this kind of senseless tragedy doesn't happen to another child."

That was their response and the thanks the president and to the many people around the United States for the support that they have lent in these many weeks since the February 26 incident -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: John, what about the investigation itself? We now know Florida Governor Rick Scott appointing this new prosecutor. What is she tasked to do?

ZARRELLA: Angela Corey, the new prosecutor, she is out of Jacksonville.

Her team is now just getting started. We talked just a little bit ago, my producer, Kim Segal, to their office in Jacksonville and they are telling us that they're just now getting their feet on the ground. They do have some of their investigators here in the Sanford area already and saying at this point just starting to gather facts.

They don't even know if a grand jury would be necessary, because you don't necessarily need a grand jury certainly to arrest somebody. So, you know, they may, depending on what facts come up will determine where this case goes. And if there were a grand jury that would be necessary, it would be the grand jury from Seminole County, but it would be these special prosecutors under Angela Davis (sic) who would handle the case -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: And finally, what about this security guard, George Zimmerman? Any word yet from him?

ZARRELLA: No, not one bit. Everyone that we have talked to, people who know him say that Zimmerman is, you know, in the wind is the way they put it right now.

I believe, you know, that certainly the police department, the city officials know how to reach him, know how to get in touch with him if need be. But no one else has come forward saying they know where George Zimmerman is. And certainly no one has seen him that we know of -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: John Zarrella, thanks, John.

A popular online (INAUDIBLE) from Texas is now accused of being a cold-blooded who murdered his own family. He is known as Mr. Anime. Coming up next, the sheriff in this county talks to us live about how Mr. Anime was captured and his chilling plans for potentially a massive tragedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: He's known on YouTube as Mr. Anime, the self-styled film critic whose videos have been watched millions of times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TREY SESLER, DEFENDANT: Hi. Mr. Anime here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But Trey Sesler is much more than a student of Japanese style animation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESLER: How you doing, everyone? It's Mr. Anime. Or you can call me Trey. You can call me the guy that does all video game reviews. Or you can me the guy that does all the gun stuff now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All the gun stuff now. Yes, according to police in Texas, this guy studied murder before becoming a mass killer.

The 22-year-old is now in jail under $5 billion bond and a suicide watch. He is charged with gunning down his schoolteacher father, his mother and his older brother at the family's home. This is Waller, outside of Houston in Texas.

Here's the home. People say Sesler also admitted killing animals, shooting at closed businesses and schools in the middle of the night and also setting fires. And he had plans to do much, much more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL REHAK, WALLER, TEXAS, POLICE CHIEF: He further admitted to investigators that he studied several killers to the point of grading their work and researching mass shootings in public areas that included but not limited to the Columbine shooting incident. He had thoughts of committing some act of public violence such as these.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: On the phone with me, Waller County Sheriff Glenn Smith from Hempstead, Texas. First, just excellent work on catching someone who obviously intended to seek harm. Sir, we just heard from the chief of police saying this is a guy who studied serial killers to the point of giving them grades? Have you been able to deduce what his intent would have been? What have you learned about him?

GLENN SMITH, WALLER COUNTY SHERIFF: Well, during the investigation and of course, certainly still ongoing, but he took what he felt like was the top eight serial killers, graded them about what action they took.

But he also studied all kinds of mass shootings, just like the Columbine shooting and other school events. But I think in his mind, he was just trying to see what he could see the possibility of what he could maybe do in the future to outdo them.

BALDWIN: Sheriff, I have head that you have described him in terms of his psyche and you said he's the classic example of escalating criminal behavior. What do you mean by that?

SMITH: He is classic in the sense of during his interviews -- he started at a younger age, killing animals, killing personal pets. He moved from that to shooting large animals. He talked about setting a few small grass fires.

He has taken rifles, and shot at buildings at various times in the middle of the night, when they were obviously closed. It was just -- there's nothing normal about a criminal like this, but it's just typical, starting with a small activity and building up in that mind- set to possibly commit some horrific act.

BALDWIN: Which thank goodness you caught him before he potentially did that.

Also so I am clear, he did ultimately -- this is a man who ultimately confessed to killing his mother, his brother and father and then from what I read he scribbled this on the wall. He scribbled, "Why did I do this? I love my mom, dad and brother." This is what he wrote after doing this. Is he showing any remorse in custody, sir?

SMITH: Well, there is signs of remorse, or at least he's displaying that.

There's been times that tears have been shown and acts like that. Whether he's sincerely remorseful or putting on some type of sociopathic appearance here, it's hard to say right now. And the investigators, we have got a great team of Texas Rangers, assisting all of us local, and these are the kinds of things with background and interviews of people that we're trying to figure out about this person.

BALDWIN: So disturbing.

Sheriff Smith from Texas here, thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

Coming up, one woman gets out of jury duty. Think about how can you do this sometimes. One woman actually does it by allegedly faking a mental disorder. Then she goes on the radio and she brags about it. But you're never going to believe who actually overheard her on the radio, the judge -- that story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There's a mother in California and she hasn't seen her 15-year-old daughter in an entire week. Now the FBI, they have joined in the search for Sierra Lamar of Santa Clara County.

Police have now found her bag in a field two miles from her home. In it, her neatly folded pants and T-shirt. Over the weekend, they found her cell phone and neither investigators say is offering up any leads.

Let's go straight to our legal analyst, Sunny Hostin, "On the Case" with us today.

Again, so the FBI is now involved? What are do you read into that now that you hear that?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's difficult to tell what to read into it. I mean, the FBI spokesperson has confirmed that the FBI has been involved and has been called in to help the investigation.

Brooke, we know that on Thursday, they were seen looking through things, but that's about all we know. So it's hard to determine. Usually if you have federal authorities involved, sometimes it's involving different states, right?

So perhaps the teen crossing another state. But there's no indication of that since a lot of the search has focused near the home. So I'm not sure -- we're not sure why the FBI is involved. But we know that the FBI is involved.

BALDWIN: I know there have been questions early on, you know, whether or not this young girl had run away. Another layer is that her father, he is a registered sex offender. Do investigators at all think he might be involved in her disappearance?

SMITH: No, they don't. And they don't believe he's involved. He has issued a statement asking people not to infer anything from his past.

What's also interesting here is that the parents, of course, are saying that she was certainly abducted, she had a good relationship with her family, that she is not a runaway. And authorities have confirmed that as of the day she was missing, she hasn't been using her Twitter and she hasn't been using her Facebook account. So many people suspect that perhaps this is an abduction and not a situation of a runaway.

BALDWIN: OK, we will follow that.

Next to this story that might quite possibly be my favorite story of the day, because we get called to be on jury duty and a lot of people think, gosh, is there any way I could possibly get out of it? This woman in Colorado lies to get out of jury duty, goes on the radio, brags about it. The judge here in this case, she is Ann Mansfield, actually was listening to the radio program and charged Susan Cole with felony perjury.

Here's a clip of the radio show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN COLE, DEFENDANT: I put bright red lipstick on. I left my hair in curlers and I put on a T-shirt that said ask me about my bestseller.

When they asked me about mental issues, I got up and said I have some mental issues.

I'm not an educated woman. I broke a law. I don't know what I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There are so many directions we could go here. File this under don't do this, right?

HOSTIN: That's right. That's right.

BALDWIN: On a legal side, why a felony? Why not a misdemeanor?

HOSTIN: Well, felony perjury is a serious charge. And it's very serious to lie to a judge. It's also very serious to lie to a prosecutor.

I remember interviewing people and telling them right off the bat, if you lie to me, you have lied to a felony law enforcement agent. And the penalty for that is five years, Brooke. And I have got to tell you, having been a prosecutor and interviewed so many jurors in determining whether or not to put them on a jury, I often thought there was a lot of feigning going on.

People dressed up in these crazy getups trying to get out of jury duty. She went a step further, though, which is why she's being charged with felony perjury. Not only did she dress up in a disheveled and uncoordinated way, she wore these mismatched shoes, reindeer socks, she left her hair in curlers, apparently, and applied an excessive amount of makeup. But then she also claimed to have post traumatic stress disorder. So lying to the judge in addition to what she was wearing, I think, is what put this and put her in felony land. I think what's so interesting, though, is that this jury duty voir dire happened in July of 2011. It wasn't until October 2011 that she got on the Dave Logan show and talked about it. And who knew the very judge that she had been before was listening at the same time? So I think this may be my favorite story of the day as well, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Reindeer socks. I love it. Sunny Hostin, great weekend to you.

HOSTIN: Happy Friday.

BALDWIN: Meantime, President Obama gets heckled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And when you ask them what specifically is your -- sir, I'm here to speak to these folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Find out who heckled him and what they were hoping to do with that. Plus, you've got to hear what else the president said to the heckler.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: "Political Pop" here. In case you're curious, if you try to interrupt the president during a speech, he's going to call you out. The president was promoting his energy policies at Ohio State University yesterday. While he was up there this guy in the crowd was repeatedly yelling. Take a look at what happened next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And when you ask them what specifically is your -- sir, I'm here to speak to these folks. You can hold your own realm. You're being rude.

(APPLAUSE)

I'll be happy to read your book. If you're going to give me your book, I'd be happy to read it, but don't interrupt my conversation with these folks.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And now this toy we've been hearing about a whole heck of a lot this week. The political weapon of choice in the Republican presidential race. Seemingly moments after a Mitt Romney aide compared his candidate to an Etch-a-Sketch here on Wednesday, Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich jumped on the comments and then these toys have been popping up all week long with these candidates. Here it is, Rick Santorum made this eye-opening comment suggesting if he is not the Republican nominee, the U.S. should stick with President Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If things aren't going to be different, we might as well stay with what we have instead of taking a risk with what may be the Etch-a-Sketch candidate for the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Santorum then clarified that comment today, saying I would never vote for Barack Obama over any Republican and to suggest otherwise is preposterous.

Jon Huntsman Sr., not a household name, but the company he started will have sales of about $12 billion this year. In this week's "Human Factor," Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains why this man has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to cancer research.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JON HUNTSMAN, SR.: My name is Mr. Huntsman.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If the name sounds familiar, it's no coincidence. This is Jon Huntsman Sr., father of former Republican presidential candidate Jon Huntsman Jr. While the elder Huntsman may not be quite as familiar as his son, the billionaire businessman philanthropist and multiple cancer survivor has made his mark. Huntsman said he was born with nothing and describes his upbringing as tough. But 42 years ago, he started a small plastics company in southern California.

HUNTSMAN: In 1973, the small team that worked with me invented the Big Mac hamburger container.

GUPTA: Over the years, that little company has grown into the Huntsman Corporation, one of the largest petrochemical, plastics, and industrial firms in the world. Huntsman has described himself as a deal junkie who's also developed an addiction to giving.

HUNTSMAN: I'm pleased to say that right from the beginning we started giving money away to charity, over 40 years ago. Even when I had to borrow money from the bank.

GUPTA: He's donated more than $1.2 billion so far to thousands and charities in the United States and abroad. Huntsman's main charitable focus for nearly two decades: building the Huntsman Cancer Institute.

HUNTSMAN: I just wanted to have the best in the world. And I believe that's where we are today.

GUPTA: That's because cancer has hit his family hard. His mother, who taught him about the importance of giving, died from cancer. As did his father and stepmother. And Huntsman wasn't spared. He has survived prostate cancer, mouth cancer and two types of skin cancer. So he built a state-of-the-art cancer center that uses cutting edge technology to treat patients and has top scientists searching for cures. And he's used his own experience as a patient to create an environment that eases patients' fears and gives them hope..

HUNTSMAN: I've learned a great deal about hospitals, services, food, cleanliness, about how patients need hope and inspiration in their lives.

GUPTA: Which is why many parts of the hospital look more like a hotel than a cancer treatment center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone is so happy, so kind.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Huntsman also says the biggest challenge he's had to overcome was the death of his daughter Kathleen who lost her battle with addiction two years ago. He tells Sanjay he hopes to build an addiction center of equal magnitude as his cancer center to help others battling trauma and other various dependencies.

Coming up, she loves to travel and loves to shop and she's also the wife of a vicious dictator. Now she's facing trouble. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The walls are closing in around Syria's elite and that includes President Assad's London-educated wife.

But I want you to hold on for that because first we need to give you an idea as to what's going on today in the besieged Syrian city of Homs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN (voice-over): At last report, we had 36 deaths across Syria today in the ongoing government crackdown which has killed some 10,000 people here. But I want to show you something else. Just real quickly. Do you remember the Syrian armed forces? They're up against armed rebels. I want you to watch what happens to this government vehicle. We believe this was filmed just yesterday.

And there it went, a government armed vehicle apparently hit by fire from the Free Syrian Army. That happened in the city of Hama.

But I want to talk now about new sanctions leveled today by the European community. They include a travel ban against the wife of Syria's president. She's also among the members of the Syrian elite whose assets have now been frozen. So Asma Assad, once considered a moderating influence on her husband, is now the target of sanctions. I want to bring in Atika Shubert, she's joining me from London. I know a lot of people don't realize that this wife, you know, she grew up in London. Does the travel ban imposed against others prevent her from traveling to Britain?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, London is very much her home. In fact, she is a British citizen. So there's some question as to whether or not if she came here, would they be able to stop her from coming in? This is something that the government here will clearly have to think about. But this is a place where she grew up, she was known as sort of an average ordinary British schoolgirl. She went by the name of Emma Akras (ph) when she was here. She's very much someone who is British and Syrian at the same time, someone who grew up here. BALDWIN: Interesting you say ordinary. I look at these pictures and she looks incredibly glamorous and then you think about what her husband is accused of doing. I do want to ask you, though, for people in London, do they remember her? What's their take on everything that's been happening there?

SHUBERT: Yeah, in fact, today I spoke to two people who knew her when she was very young, just in school and was a neighbor. He, too, was part of the Syrian community here and he describes her as a, you know, very Anglo-cized, someone who was really bright in school and came from a middle class family who was really very normal in many ways. But also a middle-class family that aspired to climb the social ladder.

So it didn't surprise him when Asma then married Bashar Assad. This was something he said the family was always aspiring to. And he says the Syrian community here is very divided boutt her role, whether or not she supports or does not support her husband.

I also spoke to a woman who knew her in 2005 when she was trying to become a patron of the arts. She said that Asma was trying to create this independent role for herself, but that was quashed by those in the Assad regime. Literally shouted down when she tried to create an arts festival. So it does paint a very complex picture of Asma Assad. Someone who is perhaps as much trapped by the Assad regime as other people.

BALDWIN: So, it sounds like, from these different people you're talking toshe's still very much so or at least had, maintained these strong social connections. Do we know if she had traveled often to London? Did she have a home there?

SHUBERT: She certainly used to. Her parents still live here. She puts a lot of focus on family. She tries to get her kids -- she has three children -- to see her parents quite often. But obviously that's been very limited in the last few years and she has not been able to come here. So she's still very much has roots here. Could it be possible for her to come here? It may be. But it may be harder for her to actually escape Syria than it would be to actually arrive here in Britain.

BALDWIN: Atika Shubert in London. Thank you, Atika.

BALDWIN: Back here at home, one of the country's biggest banks has come up with this new idea to help in the housing crisis. The idea means Bank of America essentially becomes a landlord. What does that mean? Alison Kosik has it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

With the financial bailout of the big banks just a couple of years ago, and the battles between customers and banks over added fees, hidden charges -- here's a question for you. How would you like to had a big bank as your landlord? It may sound like a trick question, but it's actually in the works at one of the country's biggest banks. I'm talking about Bank of America, they're announcing this pilot program for some of its customers who are at the risk of losing their homes.

I want to talk to Alison Kosik a little more about this. First, I know this pilot program, it's only 1,000 people. How does it work?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, so this is how it works. What you wind up doing is you hand over the deed of your house. Bank of America says, you know what we're going to forgive all your debt -- meaning the money you owe on the house -- and then the bank becomes your landlord for up to three years. You're going to have to meet requirements first. You're going to have to be 30, rather, 60 days behind your mortgage payment. You have to be at a high risk of ultimately foreclosing.

And you have to prove that your income is high enough and that you have a steady income to be afford the rent, which would wind up being significantly less than the monthly mortgage payment that you're making at the moment. Now, what Bank of America says, it's going to be working with a property management company, who will wind up dealing with all of the nitty-gritty of handling tenants.

I heard you ask the question earlier, Brooke, about who will handle the toilet if it doesn't flush? They would work with a property management group who would handle all of that stuff.

BALDWIN: All right, so you wouldn't call bank of America when the toilet is not working, you call up property management, which makes sense. But what's in it for the bank here? I mean, do they really want to be a landlord?

KOSIK: Oh, no, they don't. They definitely don't. Eventually what they want to do is have investors buy these homes. But there are a huge number of foreclosures on the market and that hurts banks, too.

These houses sit empty. They don't make any money. So keeping somebody in the home is key for these banks because those rent payments, they keep coming in and basically it's not putting that home into foreclosure. That could help stabilize home prices, because empty homes bring down the value of other homes in the neighborhood and it keeps neighborhoods from going under. Because occupied homes are often kept up better than empty ones. So this winds up being a pretty good deal for everybody.

BALDWIN: So then after the course, Alison, of those three years, I guess, the benefit of this is not having to put up your home for foreclosure. Does that mean you don't take a hit on your credit?

KOSIK: All right, well this is where you have to listen. So, what I did -- we spoke with a bunch of credit reporting experts and Bank of America and the consensus with them seems to be: you know what, anything is better than a foreclosure on your financial history.

So instead of foreclosure what Bank of America would do is report this as what's called a deed in lieu of foreclosure. So what that is, essentially -- it's not great for your credit because future lenders, they're going to consider it similar to a foreclosure, but because you went ahead and tried to work out with the bank some sort of deal to not go into a full foreclosure that should help you at least a little bit.

One credit counseling group that we spoke with said, you know what? The best part about this deal is actually being able to stay in your home. What it does to your credit score should really be a secondary concern because keeping a roof over your head should be your primary concern at that point and that's what this deal looks to do.

BALDWIN: Yes, and ultimately, our friend economist saying last hour, ultimately you get to keep your dignity as well, which I know, lately, with everything happening with homes, it's hard to do. Alison Kosik, thank you.

KOSIK: You have to have a little of that.

BALDWIN: A little bit of that goes a long way.

Coming up here, the Obama administration, they're making this move that could allow the government to keep tabs on you for years. Years. Why? Just because. We're going to speak live to a former homeland security insider who knows exactly how you're being watched.

But first, today's #Weekwinddown. This is when we flip the cameras around and you get to ask me questions. This includes a healthy wager involving basketball. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Angie Massey (ph), AKA executive producer, AKA going down tonight. Angie went to Ohio University. I went to University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and our teams just so happen to be playing tonight at 7:45.

MASSEY: My team loses, you can decorate my broken leg mode of transportation scooter in that god awful Carolina blue color.

BALDWIN: Okay. And if my team loses I will be -- mine is much worse -- I will go into the CNN newsroom, grab all you bobcat alums and I will lead a cheer -- you want to cheer for us? A little preview? Go.

MASSEY: Ohio, o-h-i-o.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Who you call, where you travel, what you buy, the government can already collect that kind of information on you even if you're not a terror suspect. And now they can keep these personal details on file a whole lot longer.

Under the old rules the government had to destroy private information after six months, but attorney general Eric Holder signed these new rules that expand that time period from six months to five years. And I want to welcome Charles Allen. He's a former undersecretary for intelligence and analysis for the department of homeland security. So Mr. Allen, I welcome you, and my first thought when I thought about this is first of all, you know, what kind of information does the government have on me and how are they gathering it in the first place?

CHARLES ALLEN, FORMER INTELLIGENCE UNDERSECRETARY FOR DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: They don't have information on you unless there's reasonable belief or suspicion that you're engaged in extremist activity or terrorism. This is a slight revision of existing guidelines that were put in effect by the previous administration in 2009.

It does not increase custody of new information outside the federal government that's not already there. It simply extends the period that we can retain those data, and it does give the national counterterrorism center under the director of national intelligence, better ways to query data sets that may be held, say, for example, in department of homeland security, law enforcement agencies.

BALDWIN: I thought we were talking, though, about ordinary American citizens whether you are suspected of something derelict, nefarious or not, the government is holding information on you.

ALLEN: If you've engaged in criminal activity there may be data sets that we have reasonable belief contains information involving terrorism. The national counterterrorism center is focused on terrorism. It's not focused on a whole range of other activities outside of terror.

So this is a revision and it's not -- to me it makes really good sense because radicalization occurs over a period of time. It doesn't always occur in six months. So if you have information that you've collected where there's a reasonable belief that the person is engaged in terrorism, a person may actually not move to the point of where he becomes or she becomes an extremist until long after six months. You have to purge your fileS after six months. It doesn't make sense given the length of time that radicalization may occur.

BALDWIN: Understand, so they're gathering information before potentially charging someone and before you have that, I guess, no major red flag that leads the government to prosecute. But what promise do we have that the government won't abuse this information if, let's say, this doesn't lead to a charge.

ALLEN: Well, there's all kinds of compliance and audit aspects to these guidelines. They've been there and they've been reinforced even more strongly by this issuance, which, it was not only issued by the attorney general, it's by the director of national intelligence Jim Clapper.

So this is intelligence, and this is reasonable belief that someone is engaged in reasonable activity. And it's not dealing with law enforcement information, per se, at the NCTC, which is a counterterrorism center. But they can draw on data sets that are held, say, by law enforcement operating elements in the department of homeland security to raise new guidelines.

BALDWIN: Final question, 30 seconds. Given this news though, this five years now we're learning from Eric Holder, compare president Obama to the man you served under, President George W. Bush. I mean, do they have more similarities on national security than many people initially would admit?

ALLEN: On counterterrorism, they have a great deal of continuity, putting aside detention and interrogation issues, but talking about collecting, analyzing and disseminating counterterrorism intelligence, I see a lot of continuity. And I think what has been issued by the attorney general and by the director of national intelligence really is spot on, it's something that we need and intelligence needs.

BALDWIN: Mr. Charles Allen in Washington, thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

And now, in Washington, Wolf Blitzer. Situation Room starts now.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S THE SITUATION ROOM: Brooke, thanks very much.