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Supreme Court Takes Up Health Care; Tebow Joins the Jets; More Outcry in Trayvon Martin Case; RomneyCare "A Disaster"; Roland Martin Hosts Town Hall On Martin; Santorum Defends Profane Comment; Health Reform Winners & Losers

Aired March 26, 2012 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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Well, thanks for watching, everyone. You can continue the conversation with me on Twitter at KyraCNN or on Facebook.

CNN NEWSROOM continues now with our Ashleigh Banfield.

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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Live from New York, where it's 12:00 noon, 9:00 a.m. on the west coast, I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

I want to get you up to speed for this Monday, March 26.

The Supreme Court wrapping up day one of a case that affects the future of your medical care and possibly the presidential election to boot. The justices heard more than 90 minutes of debate on the health care reform law championed by President Obama. It's the first of three days of arguments. And rallies for and against the law are adding to the drama that surrounds this case.

We're going to take you live to the Supreme Court for a report and some analysis on the high court's actions today. That's happening just minutes from now.

Also, today marks the one month since the unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin was gunned down in Sanford, Florida. Public outcry is growing for the arrest of the shooter, George Zimmerman. This hour, the city of Sanford holds a news conference.

Plus, Trayvon Martin's parents are taking part in a town hall meeting. They'll follow it up with a news conference of their own. And we are covering all the angles.

Her husband is charged with 17 counts of first-degree murder after a killing spree in Afghanistan, but the wife of U.S. Army Sergeant Robert Bales says, while she feels for the victims and their families, she just doesn't believe her husband could do the things he's accused of.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARILYN BALES, WIFE OF MASSACRE SUSPECT: I just don't think he was involved.

MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: So you think this is all mistaken identity? Do you think this is -- is he being made a fall guy for someone else?

BALES: I don't know.

LAUER: Seventeen people were killed.

BALES: Right. I don't know enough information. I -- this is not him. It's not him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: President Obama is in South Korea right now for a global summit on how to secure the world's nuclear material and deal with the threat of nuclear terrorism. Just as the session got under way though, North Korea moved a long-range rocket to its launch pad for a test fire scheduled for next month.

Well, never has the arrival of a prospective backup Q.B. received quite so much attention. Today, the New York Jets are holding a news conference to introduce Tim Tebow as their brand new member of the team. Tebow's the hugely popular former Denver Broncos quarterback. Denver traded Tebow after signing four-time NFL most valuable player Peyton Manning.

And it has all the markings of a landmark case. The U.S. Supreme Court deciding the fate of the sweeping health care reform law -- one of the signature accomplishments of President Obama's administration in its first term.

The justices heard the first round of what's a very lengthy debate. They're going to hear a total of six hours. And that's unusual, folks -- six hours over three days. And a ruling is not expected soon. Probably sometime around June.

The central issue in this case, whether what's called the individual mandate that takes effect in 2014 is constitutional. It requires almost all Americans to buy health insurance or pay a penalty for not doing so.

Congressional correspondent Kate Bolduan and senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin were both in court for today's arguments. They are here with us live outside, in the crowd -- probably a little breathless because I think you just got out of the SCOTUS arguments, as we like to call them.

Jeff, let me start with you. We sort of knew going in what was at stake today and it was all about whether we should be there at all. Did we get anything we didn't know, as you heard it?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, we got a lot we didn't know. Today, the issue was really procedural. Is this case premature? Should the law be evaluated only after it goes fully into effect in 2014.

And the justices pretty much unanimously gave the signal that they were going to say no. Now is the time to evaluate the constitutionality of the law. Now is when we're going to get a decision on whether this law is unconstitutional. The procedural arguments I think were largely swept away today.

Tomorrow is the big day. That's when we'll hear the arguments on the substance of whether this law is constitutional or not.

BANFIELD: Well, I always like to hear that, that we actually feel like we know where things are going early on in a case.

However, to what you just said, Jeff, did you get any questions today or any attitude in the questions today that might give us some indication of where we're headed, specifically with regard to the individual mandate?

TOOBIN: Not really. I mean, a couple of the justices expressed some skepticism for one of the justifications that the Obama administration has used, which is that this law is constitutional because it's a tax. Justice Ginsburg and Justice Breyer, two of the liberal justices, seem skeptical of that argument. They are much likely -- more likely to embrace the theory that the Commerce Clause of the Constitution underlies -- justifies this law.

But on the bigger question, we really didn't get much signal at all about which they're going. This was really mostly a procedural day.

BANFIELD: And so, the parlor games, those who really like to follow the Supreme Court -- did Justice Clarence Thomas ask any questions?

TOOBIN: Are you kidding? Don't you think we would have mentioned that already? It's been more than six years since he asked a question. No, he didn't say anything.

BANFIELD: I thought you're going to break some news, Jeffrey Toobin. All right, Kate Bolduan, I want to --

TOOBIN: No, we wouldn't wait that long.

BANFIELD: We'd have a breaking news banner, wouldn't we?

Kate Bolduan, listen -- there's a reason we have two of you standing there, and there's a reason there's a din of activity around you. It's because this thing is huge. Not only for all of us, but for the politics of it. Break it down for the folks out there who don't get why this is such a big deal.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a big deal not only because of the amount of time that the justices are spending on this case, that's rare in and of itself. But this is a big deal because this is, first of all, a law that impacts every American, and so, a ruling will in this case, the opinion here, will impact every American.

And the politics of this cannot be denied. The fact that this case is being taken up smack-dab in the middle of an election year, the fact that the ruling or an opinion will come down smack-dab months before a general election cannot be denied. The justices, of course, are aware of the stakes. They're giving a lot of time here at the Supreme Court to hear this case.

And so, both sides have a lot at stake here. This is the signature domestic -- this is the signature piece of legislation -- the signature priority for President Obama in the first term of his presidency. That has a lot at stake here.

Republicans in Congress, they have a lot at stake here. And Republicans on the campaign trail have a lot at stake because they have made this a signature part of their stump speeches, part of their campaign, that they will repeal what they call Obamacare.

So there's a lot at stake here politically, and that's why we have huge crowds here and that's why people already started lining up to get the very few seats that will go to the public. They were out here Friday afternoon when I was here previewing the case, Ashleigh.

So, there's a lot at stake. Not only in how -- what the outcome is but on the political ramifications of what the outcome is here.

BANFIELD: And, you know, we knew there would be a lot of media there, but I just got the stats and it was 110 seats for the general public and 117 seats for the media credentialed to be covering this case.

But, Kate, I want you to touch on something I asked Jeff, and that was did we get any questions that let us sort of get a window into the minds of some of the justices, but you I want to ask specifically about the Obama nominees. I mean, we've had two Supreme Court justices put to the bench during Obama's first term.

So, I want to know if Elena Kagan said anything or Sonia Sotomayor indicated anything in particular that was of note?

BOLDUAN: I think the two of them were two of probably the more aggressive questioners on the bench today. I mean, the four more liberal leaning justices were all very aggressive in their questioning on this jurisdictional issue, not specifically the key issue of the individual mandate. But they were very aggressive in their questioning today for both parties I'll say.

They did not tip their hand. No one was really tipping their hand on where things are going, where their line of questioning is going to be tomorrow on the central issue. They did wade into it ever so slightly, which more indicated to us that were watching that they were ready to move on and get the arguments going on the major issue, but we really didn't get an indication of where they're going to be tomorrow and that's why we're going to show up bright and early tomorrow morning.

TOOBIN: That's why we'll be here tomorrow.

BANFIELD: Well, far be it from me to interrupt all your fun. Kate Bolduan and Jeffrey Toobin, excellent work. Thanks so much.

I want to scoot away from you guys and let you continue doing your work, and I want to get you into New Jersey and do a complete flip because I want you to hear about Tim Tebow. He's speaking now live at the team's training facility in Florham Park, New Jersey. It's official, he's a Jet.

Let's listen.

TIM TEBOW, JETS QUARTERBACK: Obviously, the media circus happened and I found out a few minutes later that there's a snag in the contract and I wasn't a Jet. And so, then it was like five hours of kind of waiting. Coach Fox was keeping me updated on what was happening, and then later on in the day they said we have a few teams that are interested, similar deals.

So he was very gracious to ask me, you know, what I thought, and so I talked to him, you know, very honestly about it, and I told him I would love to be a Jet. I told him also the Jaguars are my hometown. You know, whatever was best for them. He said the same for me.

And ultimately they had my contract there -- they had all the power. But he listened to me and what I had to say and it was very gracious of them because they didn't have to do that, and, you know, they could have just done whatever.

But he listened to me and talked to me and I told him I would love to be a Jet. I love the coaches. I had an opportunity to be with Coach Sparano. Senior Bowl, I had an opportunity to get to know Coach Ryan several times, and that was exciting for me.

You know, I also told him I would love to be a Jaguar. That was my hometown and that would be exciting for me, and whatever was best for them.

So, I'm excited to be a Jet and I'm excited to be here.

REPORTER: Tim, how are you doing?

TEBOW: Good. How are you?

REPORTER: Everyone talks about how much of a competitor you are and the Jets have said they're bringing you in to back up Mark Sanchez. So, as a competitor, do you want to be a starter? Do you hope to be the starter?

TEBOW: Well, I think for everybody that puts on a uniform, you want to go out there and you want to play. That's why you play the game of football and I'm excited to be a Jet, you know, to go out there and to help this team any way that I can, and whatever my role is, however I can expand that role, you know, I'm going to try to do that. And every day in practice I'm going to go out there and compete and try to get better as a quarterback and try to figure out any ways possible to help this team anyway that I can.

REPORTER: Tim, how are you? Welcome to New York.

TEBOW: Thank you.

REPORTER: By all accounts, people say you're a very high character and we've heard all about that sort of thing.

TEBOW: It's not true.

REPORTER: What is it like for you to hear speculation about how you could potentially, not maybe you personally, but your coming to New York and, you know, maybe tension between you and Mark and the starting quarterback job, that it could stir up an already struggling locker room maybe. What is it like to hear about that sort of thing?

TEBOW: Well, I really don't pay too much attention to it, but I think the exciting thing is that me and Mark have a great relationship. We have had a good relationship for the last three years I think.

We've been friends. We've texted back and forth. We've talked already, and, you know, we're going to have a great relationship and a great working relationship, and I think we'll have a lot of fun together.

REPORTER: Hey, Tim, just wondering, have you spoken with Coach Ryan about what your role with the team is going to be in terms of number of carries. He said yesterday it could be up to 20 times, we're going to will see the wildcat package.

TEBOW: Well, I have had time to talk with Coach Ryan, and I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, how well it works, how it does in practice. You know, obviously, you're not going to just put something out there if it's not executing and not running well. So I think it really matters, you know, how well we do and how well, you know, I can pick everything up and go out there and how well we're doing.

So, you know, my goal is to go out there and try to execute as well as I possibly can and improve every single day and, you know, really feel comfortable with my role and try to expand that role by going out there and competing and playing well. And so, I think it's just exciting that, you know, he's had faith in me and he believes in me as a football player and as a person to bring me and make me a Jet, and I'm excited about the opportunity.

REPORTER: Hey, Tim. Welcome.

TEBOW: Thank you.

REPORTER: There was a -- there was a report the other day that Mark was a little confused by the Jets going after you and making the trade.

BANFIELD: So while he fields another question on his relationship with his other quarterback, Mark Sanchez, who he says me and Mark have a great relationship -- I just want to show you the New York post which has Tiger Woods on it today features on page four Tim Tebow out on the town. And then if that's not enough, you go to page six, which is the gossip column and Tim goes for full coverage.

I mean, this guy not even in town officially. He's already making cover of the "New York Post" on the weekend and he's throughout "The Post" today. So, get ready for a lot of coverage.

All right. We've got a run down of what we've got coming up on the program now.

Next up, it's a side of Rick Santorum you just don't see every day -- the candidate losing his cool on the campaign trail.

And then her husband is accused of going on a killing spree like no other. We are going to hear from Karilyn Bales in her own words.

And then later on, Jack and Jill went up the hill. Jack fell but couldn't get coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

I am not kidding. We are going to break down the complexities of the health care debate into a language that even a child could understand. It's all coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: New developments now in the nationwide uproar over the killing of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old teenager who was gunned down by George Zimmerman in Florida, a man who was not charged in that killing.

A CNN/ORC poll just out shows this is -- 73 percent of Americans say that police should arrest George Zimmerman, 11 percent say no, he shouldn't be arrested, and 16 percent just aren't sure.

Our Martin Savidge is in Sanford, Florida, the city where Trayvon Martin was killed.

And today marks exactly one month since Trayvon died. Martin, where is this investigation going today?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it stands very clearly in the hands of Angela Corey. She's the special prosecutor that was named by the governor of Florida last week, and she was speaking out to CNN/HLN actually just a short while ago, talking about where the investigation stands.

Before we get to that, let me just point out what her choices are. Number one, she could charge George Zimmerman or she could clear him, or she could send the results of her investigation over to a grand jury. Those are the options. This is what she said about what the final outcome of the investigation will be a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA COREY, FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: Justifiable use of deadly force has been asserted in this case and will continue to be asserted, which will make our job more difficult. However, we do believe that when we're done with our investigation, the family will know all of the facts and details as will the public. But they must be patient, and we ask for their indulgence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: She is referring to, of course, Florida "Stand Your Ground" law, which is the case here that the attorney is at least making in defense of George Zimmerman. In other words, that he felt that his life was jeopardized. At that point, we'll have to see how this investigation goes.

A lot of people don't necessarily buy that argument and that's the reason that you have so many people in an uproar because they believe, quite frankly, George Zimmerman, as that poll seems to reflect, ought to be under arrest -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: That's a good point, Martin, and I think that's a lot of the reason why you have seen some of the jostling people at the helm of the investigation, the police chief, that state attorney being switched out as well, and there's that pressure right across that country. There are people holding rallies all the way from Pennsylvania to California, Iowa, Michigan, Atlanta, and that list goes on and on, but they are no -- they are not bigger anywhere but in Florida.

There's a lot planned for where you are. Give us a rundown, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Well, right. Tonight is a community meeting. This is actually a meeting of the city commissioners. It's been planned for some time.

But, of course, given the tragic events they have decided to forgo their usual schedule and they've dedicated the whole evening to allow public comments. So, there will be a protest -- actually, a march -- that begins at 4:00 at a church. It will wind through the streets of Sanford and then eventually end up at the Civic Center.

There's room for about 500 people inside. They anticipate the crowd will be much larger, so that's why at a park nearby, which is where we are, they are setting up and preparing for perhaps thousands of people with two large-screen television sets, as well as audio that will be coming. They want to make sure that nobody misses out on the opportunity to at least hear what is going on inside.

The Trayvon Martin family, by the way, has issued a statement. They are asking for calm. They ask people respect each other's opinions.

There is some concern perhaps that emotions could pour over the top -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And our own Roland Martin is also hosting a town hall meeting almost at the same time as we're expecting this press conference.

I just want you to touch really briefly on something we have been seeing in some of the pictures we're showing alongside of your report, Martin. And that is that people are showing up, black, white, Hispanic, old, young, wearing hoodies, whether it's in church or whether it's in protest outside. Tell me the significance of the message and what they're trying to accomplish.

SAVIDGE: Well, I mean, this has become one of the tremendous symbols in the protest that has taken place, the hoodie, of course, is the article of clothing that Trayvon Martin was wearing. It is an article of clothing that some people said added to suspicion. Others say a person in this country has a right to wear whatever they wish.

It's a sign of solidarity by those who are in support of Trayvon Martin and his family and hence why you are seeing it nationwide. It makes a very powerful visual statement without even any words.

BANFIELD: As well as the can of iced tea and the package of Skittles that we're seeing a lot of people clutching as well.

Martin Savidge live for us in Sanford -- thank you for that.

It was one of the most fiercely debated pieces of legislation in recent memory. So when the two-year anniversary of the president's health care reform law passed on Friday without much recognition from the White House, many Republicans took it as a sign of weakness, and now they're pouncing.

Dan Lothian reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It took a bruising battle to get to this signing. President Obama barely got the Affordable Care Act, his signature accomplishment, across the finish line -- but at a high cost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Barack Obama is anti-American.

LOTHIAN: The Tea Party found its voice and set out to dismantle what had been a cornerstone of the president's 2008 campaign.

BARACK OBAMA, THEN-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not a mandate on government to provide health insurance. It's a mandate on individuals to purchase it.

LOTHIAN: Once in office, the president pushed hard to sell the plan to the country --

OBAMA: We need health care reform because it's central to our economic future.

LOTHIAN: -- and to Congress.

OBAMA: The time for bickering is over. The time for games has passed.

LOTHIAN: But the time for bickering had only just begun. And in one dramatic moment, some argue reached a new low.

OBAMA: The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

REP. JOE WILSON (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You lie!

LOTHIAN: Republican Congressman Joe Wilson shouted the feelings of many Americans, some of whom joined the Tea Party in protesting what they dubbed Obamacare, as intrusive and illegal.

Now, the Supreme Court is hearing arguments on several parts of the new law, including the individual mandate that requires all Americans to purchase insurance.

WILLIAM GALSTON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Health care touches every single American, every single family.

LOTHIAN: William Galston served in the Clinton White House and is now at the Brookings Institution.

GALSTON: If the court decides to strike down even a piece of the law, we will see a replay of a political debate that we haven't seen for three-quarters of a century. This is a game for extremely high stakes, not only for the president, not only for the 2012 election, but also for the institution of the Supreme Court itself.

LOTHIAN: The Obama administration's Justice Department plans to vigorously defend the new law in court against a coalition of 26 states that the president told American Public Media's "Marketplace" was motivated by politics.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OBAMA: Because, frankly, these lawsuits that were filed were basically uniformly filed by Republicans who wanted to score political points.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm calling in support of President Obama's campaign.

LOTHIAN: Meanwhile, the president's re-election campaign and the DNC are defending health care reform in battleground states like Ohio, through mailings, online, and with phone banks.

BILL FINNEGAN, OBAMA SUPPORTER: I'm helping them to understand a little bit more about the good things that the legislation is.

LOTHIAN: But as the president visited Ohio last week, the RNC launched its own attack on health care, with TV and web ads.

AD NARRATOR: Higher costs for taxpayers -- another broken promise by Obama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And Dan Lothian joins us live now from outside of the White House.

So, Dan, I have been wondering if the Obama administration is quietly waiting to see what these results are, but at the same time crafting what could end up being an option to get that public option back on the docket. If this all fails at the Supreme Court level, we might see that health care exchange, we might see that public option come back. Of if they're just not going to go that far until they know what happens on the SCOTUS.

LOTHIAN: You know, if they are going that far, they're doing so privately. Every time you ask about any kind of strategy that they might be putting together in case they do lose, they always say, look, we're not looking back, we're not looking at what the court is doing and not trying to get ahead of the court, but instead are focusing on what they believe are the benefits of this law. Pointing out that young people -- those up to 26 years old -- will be covered by their parents' insurance. The senior citizens -- and they believe that over the long term that health care costs will come down.

That is what they're pushing instead of talking at least publicly about any kind of strategy that they're working on right now.

BANFIELD: And I just wonder if they're at least strategizing on how to put this into the fall campaign regardless of what happens. Dan Lothian, thanks very much.

LOTHIAN: Well --

BANFIELD: Go ahead, go ahead.

LOTHIAN: OK. Well, no, I just was just going to say, you know, Republicans are saying that this is a political liability because the president last week, as you recall, did not celebrate the two-year anniversary. But the White House is saying, look, this is not a political liability. There are others in the White House and also the campaign who have been out there talking about the benefits of health care reform. And so, the president is not running away from this. Instead, they are celebrating the benefits.

BANFIELD: And they have had some, you know, successes at the lower court level, too. One failure but, you know, three successes, so I see what you mean.

All right, Dan. Thanks very much.

LOTHIAN: OK.

BANFIELD: Folks, get ready to check out Rick Santorum's latest campaign stop. It is the Supreme Court. No big surprise here. Let's listen.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a very, very important day for America. This is -- as I have said in this campaign, there's no more important issue, the most fundamental issues of the day, which is our economic security and stability, job growth, the size and scale of government, government deficits and spending. And, of course, the imposition of government rule over people's lives, both their economic decisions and, of course, their decisions about even their own personal faith.

This bill has far-reaching consequences for the economic health of this country and for basic liberty in our society. And that's why this decision and the debate that is going on right now is fundamental. And there's one candidate in this race who can actually make the contrast that is necessary between the Republican position, the conservative position, and one that is overwhelmingly supported by the American public and one that Barack Obama believes in, and that's Rick Santorum.

And there's one candidate who is uniquely disqualified to make the case. It's the reason I'm here and he's not. The reason that I talk about Obamacare and its impact on the economy and on fundamental freedoms, and Mitt Romney doesn't.

It's because he can't, because he supported government-run health care as governor of Massachusetts. He supported a limitation on the insurance products that are available, that you couldn't keep your insurance. He supported a mandate that required hospitals to be able to provide -- Catholic hospitals to have -- provide morning-after pills, $50 abortions, free abortions for lower income.

All of the issues that are central on freedom and taxes and, you know, Governor Romney financed the Romneycare bill through Medicaid, through your taxes. Not in Massachusetts, but all across this country. Medicaid dollars were used to pay for Romneycare, and, of course, we've seen now that Romneycare is $2 billion over budget, where they've had to increase taxes in order to pay for it.

This was a disaster in Massachusetts, and then he had the audacity to go out in 2009 and argue that Barack Obama follow his lead. Unfortunately for the country, Obama did. President Obama did follow Mitt Romney's lead and adopted, as David Plouffe said yesterday, the blueprint for Obamacare which was Romneycare.

This is the most important issue in this election. It's one that encapsulates all the issues that are at stake in this very critical election in our country's history, and there's only one candidate who has the chance of winning the Republican nomination who can make this the central issue that will be a winning issue for us to win the presidency back. And that's Rick Santorum and, unfortunately, the worst person to make that case is Mitt Romney, and that's why, as I said, here we're today and he's not.

(INAUDIBLE)

SANTORUM: I don't regret it at all. I said it here today. He's the worst candidate to go against Barack Obama on the most important issue of the day. That's what I said yesterday. It's what I have said in every single speech I have been giving throughout the course of this campaign.

I don't regret taking on a "New York Times" reporter who was out of line. You know, if you're a conservative and you haven't taken on a "New York Times" reporter, you're not worth your salt as far as I'm concerned.

So we're going to stand up and fight, you know, the twisting of remarks that we've seen in this campaign, all by the way in part authored by the Romney campaign, which is feeding these kinds of lies to the reporters.

And our feeling is we're going to go out and speak the truth and we're going to talk about how this issue is critical for our country and our country's future and that I'm the person who is best able to go up on Capitol Hill and get this accomplished.

I'm someone who has a record of taking on tough entitlement programs and actually getting rid of them. I did it with welfare reform. We can do it. We can do it either through -- with a process of reconciliation, which, you know, if we run this campaign, which I will, on Obamacare.

And we make this the central issue in the campaign and we're successful, there's no doubt that Obamacare will be repealed in one form or another. And that's not going to be the case with Governor Romney because he can't make it the argument.

Because if he makes it the argument, the Obama machine will turn it right back on him and, therefore, there won't be the mandate. He may say he wants to repeal Obama care, but he won't have the mandate through the course of this campaign to be able to win the argument not just here in Congress, but across the country.

I'll be making the argument throughout the course of the campaign. If we're successful it will be very clear where the American public is. That won't be the case with Governor Romney because as you see, he's not here, he's not making the argument in his race.

All he says is I will repeal Obamacare and in the same breath he defends Obamacare at the state level. It just doesn't wash, and it won't wash in the general election and that's why if you really want Obamacare repealed, if you really want Obamacare repealed, there's only one person who can make that happen, and that is someone who makes Obamacare the central issue in this race and that's what I do.

Anybody else? I'm having trouble hearing questions, but I would just say if -- whether I believe it's constitutional, look, I don't think -- obviously I don't believe that Obamacare is constitutional.

I don't think, obviously I don't believe that Obamacare is constitutional and I didn't advocate for a federal mandate at the federal level. I've always been for free market health care, not for government-run health care.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you say to Republicans who are concerned that the longer you say in the race the longer -- (inaudible).

SANTORUM: Well, of course, Governor Romney's supporters are going to want everybody out of the way. You know, it would be nice if Governor Romney and everybody else got out of my way, but that's not how primaries work.

I heard Governor Sununu say today that all of the significant people have said that Rick Santorum should get out of the race. Well, I guess we'll have to leave it to the insignificant voters of America in the remaining primaries to step forward and challenge the significant people who are speaking here in Washington, D.C.

The significant people in my mind are the people in Louisiana on Saturday who significantly gave us a big win, and we believe as we go forward there will be a lot of significant voters out there who want to have their voices heard from the folks here in Washington, and the Romney campaign who don't believe they should be heard throughout the course of this primary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One more.

SANTORUM: One more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to these protesters who are saying health care is a right? Is it a right?

SANTORUM: I believe basic rights are guaranteed under the declaration of independence and were recognized under the declaration of independence. Rights come from our creator. They are protected by the constitution of this country.

(END LIVE FEED)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Let me just wrap up for a moment as we move onto another news event. Let me wrap up the significance of what's happening here on your screen. This is an opportunity for Rick Santorum to show up at the Supreme Court where the arguments are being held over the Affordable Care Act, which he calls and many Republicans and critics of the Affordable Care Act call Obamacare.

But he's taken the opportunity to go straight at Mitt Romney, and you heard him say he is the worst person to make that case. The worst person to make that case is Mitt Romney. We're going to talk a little bit later on in this program about those words.

And how when a "New York Times" reporter asked him about what he said at a rally saying that Mitt Romney is the worst Republican in the country to put up against Barack Obama, how he turned on that "New York Times" reporter and said, don't twist my words.

That's bull -- you know how that word ends. We're going to talk about that in a moment with our political panel. First, I want to get you back down to Florida because in Florida in Sanford, Florida, Roland Martin is holding a town hall meeting right now, and at the podium currently is the Reverend Al Sharpton. Let's listen in to what he has to say.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

REVEREND AL SHARPTON: It's not about him saying what he thought. It's about what he needs. And we cannot allow the law to put us in that position. So he's their son, but it's our fight, and we need to finance our fight.

So I want -- to raise your offering for this family. They've got some big bills. Nobody plans for their son to go to the store and get killed. There's no budget for that, which is why we're fighting, we're marching today, rallied last week, they're rallying all over the country.

We're coming here and we're going to occupy this town. I told pastor, we come Good Friday. We're going to stay here. We'll stay down by city hall. But I want us to raise some money real quick, and I want all these cameras to see how we finance our own movement.

The people standing with Trayvon's family, how many of you are all willing to help me? Get me some buckets right here. Give me some plates. I'm going to call Reverend Jackson last because he got plenty of money.

All right, some of y'all can give more than others, so if you weren't on the program and want your name called, stand up with a substantial offering and I'll call your name. Anybody -- somebody may want to give $500.

Come on down here, I'll call your name. Who has $100? Come down here. I know you did. Come on. I need about 200 people to give $100. Give me some more hundreds, hundreds, hundreds, hundreds. Come on, that's right. Walk on down. What's your name?

West Palm Beach, 100, come on. Put it in the bucket. What's your name? John. John, 100. Checks are made payable to Sybrina Fulton. That's one thousand. Come on, come on, raise those hundreds. Give me your name.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Howard University School undergrad.

SHARPTON: Howard University Student alum, $200. Boston, Massachusetts, $100. Come on, come on. I need some more money. Felicia Robinson, $100. Come on.

(END LIVE FEED)

BANFIELD: So you are watching the Reverend Al Sharpton at the Macedonia Baptist Church in Eatonville, Florida, where he alongside of another dignitaries and our own CNN contributor Roland Martin who have been putting this town hall meeting together have been hosting a number of the public, but as well putting together a panel to answer questions.

Members of the family of Trayvon Martin were expected to be there as well as the family's attorney. You can see the Reverend Al calling people up to donate money to the family's fund. I think he was asking for $500 at first.

Just heard a woman coming up and giving $200. There you go. People are coming up one by one to donate money to help this family and their efforts as they see it to seek justice against George Zimmerman in this case and continue the pressure on the city and the state officials who are investigating this case and the killing of Trayvon Martin.

We have a lot more to go. All the politics, all broken down with a little bit of humor to boot and an explanation even a child can understand of what this whole health care debate is all about. It's all coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Rick Santorum defends his use of profanity in a dust-up with a reporter. The back and forth and the comment that set it all off is where we begin our political round table today.

Let's bring in Democratic strategist, Kiki McLean and Republican strategist, Lenny McAllister and then also our own Jim Acosta who is chasing down Santorum as he weaves his way and out of campaign stops.

The last one being the one we followed live. He's standing on the steps of the Supreme Court. So let's get to those profane comments in just a second though.

Let's start though with the remark that led to the exchange. Here is Rick Santorum at a campaign stop in Wisconsin and he's talking about health care and Mitt Romney. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANTORUM: Why would we put someone up who is uniquely -- pick any other Republican in the country, he is the worst Republican in the country to put up against Barack Obama. Why would Wisconsin want to vote for someone like that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ouch. At first we thought, whoa, that sounded pretty strident, but then we just heard him minutes ago on the steps of the Supreme Court saying he is the worst person to make that case, the worst person to make that case is Mitt Romney.

Lenny, I'm going to let you weigh in on this. Is this because it's exciting and because it's timely or is Rick Santorum sounding desperate?

LENNY MCALLISTER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Rick Santorum is not sounding desperate and it's not timely, but Rick Santorum has a tendency to go over the top. This is not the first time that Senator Santorum has said something that has a good point to it, but is articulated and messaged all the wrong way. Let's go back to the JFK speech. He believes in not separating church and state when it comes to a leader's perspective on the world, but by saying that the JFK speech made him want to throw up was going overboard. Some of the comments that he said about African-Americans wanting to close the disparities when it comes to employment, great point, not when you say you want to give black people jobs not other people's money.

This is not the first time that Senator Santorum has done this and he's been doing it throughout the campaign. The problem is, when you're the front-runner, it exponentially gets worse when you continue to do these things. It's just another example of Santorum not having the discipline and messaging that his supporters would like for him to have. And this is one of the things that contrasts him with Mitt Romney, who although he's had his own gaffes, hasn't quite been this far off the rails with some of the messages that he's put out there.

BANFIELD: OK. So just so it's fresh in our minds, what he said in that sound bite that I just played was, "pick any other Republican in the country. He is the worst Republican in the country to put up against Barack Obama." And after that rally, a "New York Times" reporter named Jeff Zeleny asked Rick Santorum about that remark, actually verbatim, and that is when Rick Santorum got mad. Listen to the exchange captured by CBS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, "NEW YORK TIMES": Do you think he is the worst Republican to run on those issues?

SANTORUM: To run against Barack Obama on the issue of health care, because he fashioned the blueprint. I've been saying it in every speech. Quit distorting my words. If I see it, it's bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Come on, man. What are you doing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oops, there's cameras rolling. Come on, man, what are you doing? Those were his words. I mean we've got it on two tapes clear as day and then we've got it on the Supreme Court steps as well. Kiki McLean, that's what happens when there are cameras everywhere. Is this going to be troublesome for Rick Santorum? And don't we all kind of make these mistakes?

KIKI MCLEAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, some people make mistakes. It's partly about how you handle it. I notice Lenny didn't point out to the concept that when Rick Santorum talked about aspiring to college makes you a snob. I mean he's had some real statements that demonstrate his inability to be consistent.

You know, the other thing that was interesting to me for your viewers to know, Jeff Zeleny, the reporter you referred to, is not considered among the press corps, or those who are covered by them, as being somebody who's difficult or twists words either. So the fact that he could get that kind of reaction very quickly isn't a great day on the campaign. And, more importantly now, we're talking about that and we're not talking about the other things that Rick Santorum had to say.

BANFIELD: Right. Right.

MCLEAN: You've got an issue where the two front-runner candidates for the Republican nomination, both Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, are known to say things that are out of the mainstream or outrageous or in their biggest, largest moment. Every human being has a tough day. These guys are tired. There's no doubt about it. But there's enough of a pattern here that it gives you some insight into their thinking.

BANFIELD: They're tired and they're scrappy. That's for sure.

MCLEAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And I know that, you know, --

MCLEAN: Well --

BANFIELD: Probably isn't one among us who could cast that stone first.

But let me get to Jim Acosta, who's standing in the location where we just saw Rick Santorum repeat those words, that the worst person to put up against Barack Obama is Mitt Romney. He is not backing down from this, Jim Acosta.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, that's right.

BANFIELD: And it sounds like he's not backing down from what he said to "The New York Times" either. He's actually looking at that as an advantage, that you take out a "New York Times" reporter.

ACOSTA: Yes, that's right, Ashleigh. Unlike those previous gaffes that your guests just mentioned, Rick Santorum is now fund-raising off of those comments that he made to Jeff Zeleny with "The New York Times." So it goes to show you that the Santorum campaign isn't shrinking from what happened out on the campaign trail yesterday. They're actually quite proud of it.

And getting back to this argument against Mitt Romney. I mean this is something that Santorum has been saying throughout this campaign, that because Mitt Romney brought about health care reform in Massachusetts that included an individual mandate, that mandate that is people buy health insurance as a -- basically as a requirement for being in that state, and the fact that that was brought into the president's health care law and applied, you know, on a national basis, you know, Rick Santorum feels that he is the guy to go after President Obama on that issue and that Mitt Romney is not.

BANFIELD: So, Jim, here's -- I get it. Like, I've been on a campaign before and it is no fun. And you don't get to watch TV. And you certainly don't get to watch all the news as it cycles around you.

ACOSTA: Right.

BANFIELD: But I am curious to find out if Rick Santorum or his campaign has been watching the coverage today because Jeff Zeleny got it right. And Rick Santorum said to him, if I see that in print, you're distorting my words, that's bull -- you know what.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BANFIELD: Does he know that he's actually made a mistake here?

ACOSTA: Well, you know, having been in some of those kinds of situations with Rick Santorum and with the other candidates, I -- you know, it's probably not a -- something you should hold your breath for, Ashleigh, to expect the candidate to admit that he was wrong in this situation.

I don't want to play referee between Rick Santorum and Jeff Zeleny here, but Jeff Zeleny asked the question, you know, do you think president -- or do you think Mitt Romney is the worst Republican. And Rick Santorum tried to put that question into context, although in a very heated fashion by saying, you know, wait a minute, go back and look at the statements that I've said in the past. I feel that Mitt Romney is uniquely disqualified to run against President Obama on this issue. So I think that Santorum was trying to get his point across there, but, you know, goes without saying, perhaps not the best way to go about doing it.

BANFIELD: Yes, it doesn't match the sweater vest, does it? Jim Acosta --

ACOSTA: That's right.

BANFIELD: All right, thanks for all --

ACOSTA: Not the Richie Cunningham image there, that's right.

BANFIELD: That's a good one. Thank you very much for that.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BANFIELD: And thanks to my entire panel today. Excellent work all of you.

It is now 50 minutes past the hour. Switching gears completely. The wife of the Afghanistan massacre suspect is speaking out. She says that her husband, Sergeant Robert Bales, loves children and is like a big kid himself. She says a lot more, too. You're going to hear it in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The wife of U.S. Army Sergeant Robert Bales is speaking out. He's accused of massacring Afghan civilians. But his wife Karilyn says she doesn't believe her husband could have done what he's charged with doing. And she spoke this morning on NBC's "Today" show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARILYN BALES, WIFE OF MASSACRE SUSPECT: It hurts my heart. It, you know -- just very, very saddened.

MATT LAUER, NBC'S "TODAY" SHOW HOST: This is the guy you describe as your best friend.

BALES: Right.

LAUER: And he's being charged with first-degree murder. In other words, premeditated. That he planned this.

BALES: It's very unbelievable. I just -- all I can think of is, what happened? What led up to it? We don't -- we don't have all the -- I feel like I don't have all the information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Karilyn also said that her husband loves children and that he himself is a big kid.

In this political season, the health care law is often cast as the big bad wolf. So we're going to break it down in a language everyone can understand. So gather up the kids, moms and dads, you'll hear about winners and losers on both sides.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The Supreme Court takes up a case that will determine the future of health care in your country. It impacts what kind of coverage you're going to get. It impacts a lot more than that, too, what kind of election we're going to have. Whether the government can require you to buy health insurance, force you, in fact, or make you pay a fine. And the issues about individual mandates and constitutionality can be pretty darn complex. So who are the potential winners, who are the potential losers? Lizzie O'Leary puts it in terms that even your kids can understand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LIZZIE O'LEARY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meet Jack and Jill. They're married with two kids and together make $49,000 a year. About the middle American income.

O'LEARY (on camera): But, like 15 million people with similar incomes, they don't have health insurance. Not good if you're worried about falling down a hill.

O'LEARY (voice-over): Under the new law, Jack and Jill are winners. They can buy private insurance from what's called an exchange starting in two years.

O'LEARY (on camera): The idea is that lots of people buying at the same time would get a better price. And the plans have to meet minimum standards set by the government.

Jack and Jill would also get a subsidy to help them buy their plan.

O'LEARY (voice-over): Mary only makes $13,000 selling little lambs. She's also a winner. She can get insurance under an expansion of Medicaid. Seventeen million Americans like her will be eligible for that.

And about 51,000 kids with pre-existing conditions, like Hansel and Gretel, are also winners. They can't be denied coverage. And all kids can stay on their parents' insurance until they're 26.

O'LEARY (on camera): Where does the money come from? Well, that brings us to the losers, including the roughly 19 percent of Americans who have high cost gold plated health care plans, like Prince Charming here.

O'LEARY (voice-over): Starting in 2018, that fancy plan he gets from his job at the castle would be taxed at 40 percent. He will also see his payroll taxes go up, like the 3 million other Americans who make more than $200,000 a year.

Also on the losing end, companies like Fairy Godmother Industries. It employs more than 50 people making glass slippers. So it has to offer insurance or pay a fine.

O'LEARY (on camera): Ninety-four percent of similar sized companies already do, so only a small number would pay more under the new law.

We end this story with a toss-up. Insurance companies would both win and lose. They'll have to pay the government more than $8 billion a year, but they get up to 40 million new customers, like Jack and Jill, who by law must get insurance or pay a penalty.

Lizzie O'Leary, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)