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New Developments in Trayvon Martin Case; Autism on the Rise; Pennsylvania Church Stages Kidnapping; Best Buys Closes 50 U.S. Stores, Opens 50 in China; Mandatory Ultrasound Law Struck Down by Circuit Court; "The Healing of America"; Man Survives 28 Days Stranded at Sea
Aired March 29, 2012 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Alright, it's the top of the hour here. Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Alarming new numbers about autism, autism in America.
Also, an American soldier dies saving a little girl.
And Senator Marco Rubio tells CNN what he thinks about a possible spot as vice president.
Time to play "Reporter Roulette."
I do want to begin with this huge, huge health concern, so large it is just absolutely baffling the government. The number of cases of children with autism, it is rising, it is rising rapidly.
And CNN's doctor, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is live with me.
But, first, I want you to watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Frankie Sanders is a ninth grader who loves to play chess on his iPad, and is trying to pass the test for his driver's permit. Frankie also has autism. As you may know, that's a neurodevelopmental disorder that affects language, behavior and social skills. Boys make up the vast majority of cases.
What you may not know is that 12 years ago the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began to estimate the total number of cases in the United States. They based it on a count of eight-year- old children with autism in select communities.
If you look back in the years 2000 and 2002, it was about one child in 150 with autism. Two years later, one in 125. Then one in 110. And now the latest report as of 2008, the last time an estimate was performed, one in 88 children has autism. That's a 78 percent increase just over the last decade. And the question on a lot of people's minds is why.
DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: How much of that increase is a result of better tracking and how much of it is a result of an actual increase, we still don't know.
GUPTA (voice-over): Researchers have discovered many genes linked to autism, but in most cases genes are only one part of the equation, and genes alone wouldn't change that fast in just 10 years. There is something else that triggers the problem.
GARY GOLDSTEIN, PRESIDENT, KENNEDY KRIEGER INSTITUTE: We're talking about infections. We're talking about social conditions, and we're talking about exposures to toxicants, things in the environment.
GUPTA (voice-over): Researchers are still looking for answers, but what they do know is that diagnosing children early is critical, as was the case with Frankie Sanders.
ROY SANDERS, FATHER OF FRANKIE SANDERS: Frankie was diagnosed when he was 15 months old. He immediately began to get speech therapy and occupational therapy and physical therapy. He was placed in a group with kids who were typically developing.
GUPTA (voice-over): All that hard work is paying off. Frankie is now 15. He attends a regular high school and plays on the football team.
GOLDSTEIN: We can diagnose autism at two years of age almost always, but in 90 percent of the children; by three, certainly. And we actually can diagnose it at 18 months in many children.
GUPTA (voice-over): But according to this new report, most cases are diagnosed late, after age two or three. That's when therapy has been shown to help the most, especially with speech and communication.
R. SANDERS: Parents need to be aware of their children and how their children are interacting.
GUPTA (voice-over): And then they need to seek help.
FRIEDEN: If you as a parent are concerned about your child, talk to your doctor, talk to your school system, to see if they should be assessed, get them assessed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Sanjay Gupta, I want to get to parent awareness in a minute. But you look at the numbers. Why? Why are they so up?
GUPTA: You know, it is one of these tough things to sort out. This particular study, it's more of a survey. They're looking at numbers specifically. They're not really trying to find causes. But it is the question everyone asks, and the answer to most of these things, it is a combination of genetics and environment.
Brooke, you and I have talked about that sort of thing before. But I think there is an important point here, and that is again that your genes just don't change that fast in a decade. Genes in the human beings take hundreds of years really to change. The environment is where a lot of people are focusing their attention, after a child is born, but also while they're in the womb, exposures, infections, some sort of toxins. Could it be advanced maternal age and paternal age, both mothers and fathers older now when they're having kids?
Could that play a role as well, either because the parents are older or because the parents, because they are older they accumulated more toxins in their body as well before having kids? We don't know the answer. But each time one of these surveys is done, you're getting more data. Where are the cases more prevalent? Which groups are they prevalent in? What are the ages of parents? Eventually you start to be able to drill down on this more.
BALDWIN: If the child is in a womb, that's one situation. Another is if you have a child, a parent detects autism earlier, is it possible to actually reverse some of the symptoms?
GUPTA: I think so. I think that that's not just platitudes, because I think people always say, look, detect early, intervene early and you always hear that. I think with autism a lot of the stories we reported over the years show that really does make a difference.
I mean, first of all, what to look for, you know, you can see some of these signs in children between the ages of six and 12 months and, Brooke, as you know, I have small children. It is sometimes difficult to parse out specific behaviors.
But take a look at the list here. Kids typically start babbling in this age range. They may not be saying full words. But if that is not happening, it is a concern. It doesn't mean for sure anything but it is a concern. Doesn't gesture, poor eye contact, not really engaging with parents or with other people, doesn't reach up for a hug or to be picked up when you come by the kid, those are signs that may signal you or go to talk to your doctor or specialist in this area.
What they found is if the diagnosis occurs at 18 months or around that time period, those interventions which focus on increasing social contact, trying to either delay or reverse as you said some of the symptoms of autism, that can happen. These children with autism have a much better chance if the early diagnosis and intervention occurs.
BALDWIN: Sanjay, thank you.
GUPTA: You got it. Thank you. .
BALDWIN: Next on "Reporter Roulette," Florida Senator Marco Rubio tells CNN what he thinks about running for vice president.
National political correspondent Jim Acosta spoke with him a little while ago.
Jim Acosta, quite the news making interview. What did the senator tell you?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Brooke, it seems we have to ask Marco Rubio this question every three or four months just because we have to, but his endorsement of Mitt Romney sort of brings the subject back up because obviously this is something that has been talked about in Republican circles, that Marco Rubio would bring a lot to a Republican ticket.
He could potentially help Mitt Romney win the state of Florida, which would seriously hurt the president's reelection chances. We had a chance to catch up with Marco Rubio up on the Hill earlier today in between his meeting and his votes and asked him, what do you think? What's your latest response on this, Senator? Here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Last year on "Meet the Press," you said under no circumstances would you appear on the ticket this year.
(CROSSTALK)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Yes, my answer hasn't changed on the vice presidential stuff. I know people keep asking. But my answer hasn't changed.
ACOSTA: Still under no circumstances?
RUBIO: Yes, I'm not going to be the vice president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: I don't know if you noticed that, Brooke. But I asked him a couple of times about this interview that he gave to "Meet the Press" last year in which he said under no circumstances would he appear on the ticket for the Republican Party in 2012.
Both times he did not exactly say under no circumstances, so does that leave the door open? That is in the eye of the beholder and it remains to be seen. He seems to be saying no for the record, but when you say my answer hasn't changed, that talks about now, and it doesn't talk about where we might be tomorrow or three months ago from now or heading into Tampa.
BALDWIN: We didn't really stop asking Chris Christie, did we, so that's why I imagine we keep doing our job and asking Marco Rubio as well.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Also a little bit of news on the Romney front. Officially sort of I guess signing on the dotted line, a big endorsement there.
ACOSTA: That's right. Former President George H.W. Bush, Bush 41, is expected to appear with Governor Romney later on this afternoon at an event at the former president's office in Houston, and this is another big sign that the Republican establishment is coalescing behind Mitt Romney. It is a good endorsement for Mitt Romney, not unexpected. Former President Bush did indicate his support for Mitt Romney back in December. And Barbara Bush, as you might recall, Brooke, was recording robo-calls on behalf of Mitt Romney in Ohio before Super Tuesday.
But it is yet another sign that the establishment is moving behind Mitt Romney and not behind the other candidates. So, obviously that's a good step in the right direction for Mitt Romney.
BALDWIN: Still nothing from George W. Bush, right?
ACOSTA: No.
BALDWIN: Nothing from him yet.
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: That's right. Our political staff did touch base with his staff as of last night. Still nothing on that front.
BALDWIN: Still nothing yet. Jim Acosta, thank you for us in Washington.
Next here on "Reporter Roulette,," Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with a story of a U.S. soldier that died saving an Afghan child's life, a very emotional story.
What happened?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brooke, there is plenty of heartbreak to go around in war, but this is one that will give you pause.
It was just a few days ago in Eastern Afghanistan. We want to tell you about this. Specialist Dennis Weichel was in a military convoy, very heavy, big armored vehicles, when they noticed some small Afghan children in the road. We have a picture of him now. They wanted to get the children out of the way, of course. It was very dangerous for them to be in the road. He and other soldiers got out.
They pulled the kids to safety, but at the last minute a little Afghan girl ran back into the road to apparently pick up some shell casings. Afghan kids often try and pick up whatever they can and basically sell it for pennies. Their families need the money.
The specialist went after the little girl. He pulled her to safety, but he could not get out of the way in time. He was hit by the vehicle, which could not stop. He passed away a short time later. He is survived by his own three young children. He will be laid to rest in Rhode Island on Monday. And the state flags are flying at half-staff, a very heartbreaking case, courage and valor of all of the troops.
BALDWIN: Heartbreaking, heroic and also bears us telling the story especially given what happened back a couple weeks ago with Sergeant Bales and now all the charges he faces, killing...
(CROSSTALK)
STARR: Yes. I think that has not escaped anyone.
We have talked to so many people in the military who know about this case of Special Weichel and say it is another example. They want Americans, they want Afghans to know that the majority, vast majority of U.S. troops serving in the war zone, all the troops serving in the war zone are there to help -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, appreciate it.
And that's your "Reporter Roulette" here on this Thursday.
I have now been told we have live pictures. Let's take a look. Live pictures, here you go, this is off the coast of Orange County, California, and what you are looking at is a whale has been tangled up in some old fish netting there. This is near Redondo Beach, if you kind of know the area. Rescuers are trying to reach the whale in boats in buoys. They say it is older than a baby whale, not quite an adult whale. Here you go, more pictures as they're out trying to help. We will keep you posted obvious on the progress to save this whale, Redondo Beach area, California.
So we have the police report. I have it right here, the police report, Sanford police detailing what happened the night Trayvon Martin was shot and killed. Now we have the surveillance video. It shows George Zimmerman after the shooting. We have Mike Brooks standing and he will walk us through this video frame by frame to show us what injuries Zimmerman may have had or perhaps did not have at all. Don't miss this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We are getting now a fresh look at the man who admits to shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
The police report here says George Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head at the scene. But I want you to take a look. This is the surveillance video of Zimmerman that was taken some time later. This is the Sanford, Florida, Police Department and he is here in sort of a red jacket. He is in handcuffs here.
The police , they do check him over. This is video, it was obtained by CNN. But I want to move to another piece of this video because you can see it is a little bit clearer, a little bit better lighting. Here is Zimmerman being led into this room to be questioned.
But the tapes, they're grainy, neither of them appears to really show visible injuries to Zimmerman, and that brings up all kinds of questions when it comes to Zimmerman's story that he shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense. Zimmerman's father has now spoken out, explained his version of the events to affiliate WOFL. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, FATHER OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of you're going to die now or you're going to die tonight, something to that effect. He continued to beat George, and at some point George pulled his pistol and did what he did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I have got Mike Brooks here, HLN law enforcement analyst.
We have the police department report, you and I both have it.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. Right.
BALDWIN: But I want to walk over because I want you to tell us, tell us what you see. You were a --
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: I was a detective, yes, detective with the Metropolitan Police, assigned to the FBI for the last six years, and I also spent 20 years as an emergency medical technician and I was also a volunteer fire chief in Fairfax County, Virginia, so have treated people on the streets of Washington and Virginia with head injuries.
BALDWIN: Talk to me.
BROOKS: OK. We see him get out of the vehicle right here. OK?
We see him getting out, Brooke, and you see him here. Let's stop it right there.
BALDWIN: Pause it.
BROOKS: Let's pause it. Do we see any visible blood here? It is really hard to see in this particular light, but we will see again if we can start it back up again, and you will see him being searched by officers and one of the other things I found interesting, the officers were not wearing any rubber gloves.
To me, and by protocol, if anybody has any biohazard, blood on them, they would put on gloves because they want to make sure that they did not get anything on them. You will see this officer, he searches his pockets to make sure there is nothing in the lining of his jacket. And this was the coat witnesses described him having on at the time of the shooting and you see the officer, he looks at something and then wipes it on his hand.
But you will see him walk around. Let's let him walk toward you and we will see him and then we will go ahead and pause it here in just a second.
BALDWIN: Here he is looking. (CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Let's pause it right there. Now, do we see any head trauma described by his father as being held down and having his head hit into the concrete? He was treated, we know.
BALDWIN: Treated on the scene.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: On the scene by Sanford Fire Department, and then they released him and they took him to the station.
Now, if you have a bad cut on the back of your head, as a former EMT, you will put a compress on that and put some kind of cling until it stops bleeding because you don't want someone leaving there and if they have a severe head injury, they will take him to the hospital. Let's go ahead and continue on with the tape.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Is it possible if it wasn't severe and they treated him on the scene, it would be clean?
BROOKS: It could be. But we will see him lean against the wall here. But then as it goes along, you can see him stop it right there. Do we see anything right there? Maybe just a little speck if you will right here, just -- but it's very, very hard to see, it's very, very tough to look at, grainy video.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: But if it was a large laceration, and someone getting their head beat into the concrete, like his father is alleging, I would say, as a former EMT and investigation, you would see a large visible cut on the back of his head.
BALDWIN: I don't know if we have that other video, guys, where he is walking in to be questioned because I have another question about his nose, right, because there were -- his father again speaking with our Orlando affiliate WOFL saying he didn't realize until the following day that his nose was broken. Yet, when you see -- here he is.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Right. Stop it right there. OK. Do you see his nose? Does it look like it is broken? No, it doesn't.
Again, you don't see any blood on his shirt, and when someone is hit in the nose, I played rugby for over 20 years and also on the streets. If somebody hits you in the nose and breaks your nose, you will bleed, especially after you're struck in the face with a fist that they're alleging Trayvon Martin attacked him and your heart is pumping and you're fighting for your life as he alleges. You will have blood pumping hard and your heart will be pumping and blood will be coming out of your nose all over the front of your shirt.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: But we don't see this here. Do we know the extent of the injuries? No. But this gives us a little more insight, I think, into the extent of his injuries and maybe they weren't as bad as -- I thought I would see a larger laceration. I thought I would see blood, and you don't see him staggering. You don't see him uneasy on his feet either.
BALDWIN: We would love to hear from a paramedic who treated him on the scene.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Absolutely. And there is a record of that because he would have had to sign a release saying I don't want to be transported, I release of you all duty, and I am going to be going with the police.
BALDWIN: Yes. We can't talk to the paramedics because of privacy rules, HIPAA rules, so they can't talk to us. They're really the ones that have the nuggets of information as far to how he was treated.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Exactly.
BALDWIN: Mike Brooks, again we end with still a lot of questions.
BROOKS: A lot of questions, but I think this gives us a little more insight as the case progresses along.
BALDWIN: I appreciate it.
BROOKS: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Also want to remind everyone on this story we want you to watch CNN 8:00 Friday night for the special town hall we're holding. It's going to be hosted by Soledad O'Brien. She will examine the racial tension in our country right now and how this horrible tragedy in this Florida neighborhood has now become such a nationwide story, 8:00 Friday night on CNN.
Now this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was terrified, a pillowcase over my head and they had my hands behind my back. I said, what's going on? And they said just do what we say and you won't be hurt. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: A group of men, they burst into this church classroom, wave a real gun and fake-kidnap the teenagers. But it doesn't stop there. Wait until you hear this whole story and the lesson the church wanted to teach. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: This is the kind of lesson a group of teens did not at all expect. One minute, they were at a church youth group meeting. The next, they were face-to-face with an armed man, their heads covered with pillowcases, frightening, no doubt. The whole thing was fake. What's the lesson here?
Dave Marcheskie from our affiliate WHTM explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was terrified, a pillowcase over my head and they had my hands behind my back. I said, what's going on? And they said just do what we say and you won't be hurt.
DAVE MARCHESKIE, WHTM REPORTER (voice-over): Kidnapped, thrown in a van, staring down the barrel of a real gun. And guess what? It was all fake.
However, this 14-year-old girl had no idea, believing the real horror that left real scars both physical and emotional, more like a lesson, says the Glad Tidings Assembly of God Church near Middletown. In order to teach teens what real-life persecutions of beliefs are like, Pastor John Lanza says they arranged a surprise raid Wednesday night.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: All right, our apologies. Obvious that sounded like that was only one channel of audio working.
But let me tell you this. We did ask the district attorney here what's next in terms of legal matters the church may face. Here is what he told us in a statement. And let me quote: "We are investigating the matter in conjunction with the Lower Swatara Township police. At this point, it is too early to say what the results will be. There are many witnesses to interview and it will take some time."
And we have made multiple calls inviting the pastor here to join us, to call in, if he would like to share more about his decision to take part in this mock raid, and he has yet to respond to our request.
But "The Washington Post" quotes him as saying this type of exercise is important to teach young Christians -- quote -- "the dangers of mission work." In fact, a young missionary from Pennsylvania was recently killed in Yemen. This is a picture CNN has of the scene where he died. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for his death and said Joel Shrum was proselytizing.
The lines are getting longer as Americans race to get their chance at a half-a-billion dollars. In fact, the jackpot has gotten even bigger since we talked about this yesterday. Plus, Best Buy's stock taking a big dive after it announces a drastic change to many of its stores. CNN will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: It is interesting and happening right now, you're about to see it, "Rapid Fire." Let's go, beginning with this.
The Senate today killed a bill backed by President Obama to end tax breaks for major oil companies. In fact, speaking today before the vote, the president said the nation would be watching to see what exactly Congress would do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is not as if these companies can't stand on their own. Last year, the three biggest U.S. oil companies took home more than $80 billion in profits.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The bill died on a 51-47 procedural vote with Democrats backing the measure and Republicans opposing it.
Update today here in the killing of those 17 Afghan civilians. The U.S. military says it has never had access to those two Afghan villages where the killings happened and that will make it very difficult to prosecute this alleged killer here, Sergeant Robert Bales. His attorney, John Henry Browne, spoke out to CNN about the crime scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN HENRY BROWNE, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT BALES: It is not a traditional crime scene. There is no crime scene. The military has not even been back to the villages where this allegation stems from. They haven't been back there. So there is no crime scene. There is no DNA. There is no fingerprints. There is no confession.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Also today, perhaps Lindsay Lohan's final time in court. Her probation is over. Her judge saying in a hearing just a little while ago, let me quote this judge, "I don't expect to see you again." Lohan has done community service, counseling sessions as well, following her DUI arrest just about five years ago and we did hear her just briefly thank the judge before leaving court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I just want to thank you, Your Honor, for being fair. And it is really opened a lot of doors for me. So I really appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You were on a tight leash. You are not going to be on that leash anymore. The leash you are going to be on is going to be self-imposed. OK? And you know what you have to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And if you have lotto fever, friends, you're not alone. The mega millions jackpot has now reached a record high, $540 million. So if you haven't bought your ticket, throw on comfortable shoes. You see the lines? They're wrapping around convenience stores, the block, down streets, and everyone hoping to cash in on the biggest lotto drawing in world history. It is Friday night at 11:00 eastern.
(MUSIC)
BALDWIN: The sound of Earl Scruggs, a bluegrass music legend, died yesterday in a hospital in Nashville. He was 88 years of age. He teamed up with Lester Flat to form the Foggy Mountain Boys and earn their way into the country music hall of fame. The biggest hit, "The Ballad of Jed Clampett," the theme song of the sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies."
And Best Buy closes 50 stores. Now the stock is down. But get this, they'll open 50 stores in China. Alison Kosik is live with us at the New York stock exchange. How much in terms of stock today?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Best Buy shares right now, Brooke, falling seven percent. This is despite best buy reporting better than expected earnings today. But the focus is really on the news of best buy closing 50 stores, firing 400 people. Look, what Best Buy is facing at this point, Brooke, is stiff competition from online retailers and people jokingly refer to best buy stores as Amazon.com show rooms meaning you go to best buy to try out the electronics and then go online and buy them from Amazon.
So this is the problem, the usual brick and mortar store idea not working too well for best buy. What they're doing is slimming down and says it will open the mobile small standalone stores and a store within a store inside malls in the U.S. and China and it is opening 100 in the U.S. and 50 in China. So, Brooke, I know you mentioned China. It is not so much about best buy going overseas. It is more about changing their business model to fit what really works in today's age of shopping.
BALDWIN: It is amazing how much people buy online now.
KOSIK: Love it.
BALDWIN: Here is a sign of the economy hopefully improving even more. Jobless claims down this week, the lowest since 2008. It is amazing.
KOSIK: This is good. This is improvement. It is encouraging. The first time claims fell by 5,000 to 359,000. But look at the market. It is not rallying on this news because the reading came in higher than expected. Plus it seems the claims right now are kind of stuck at the 350,000 level. They have been there for weeks. And now there are worries that the improvement that we have seen in the jobs market is kind of slowing down. So that's what you're seeing, the worries. You have to remember with 13 million people, Brooke, are still out of work. So you're not going to see the economy fully recover until some of them get back to work and you're seeing that play out in the market today.
BALDWIN: No halleluiah chorus yet. Alison Kosik, I hear you loud and clear. Thank you so much.
Now, the feds bust a murder for fire plot allegedly involving these three guys with military ties. And they're accused of wanting to use those military skills in the plot. Wait until who you hear who they're accused of conspiring with. Joey Jackson is all over it today on the case, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: An Oklahoma judge says no to the state's new law requiring an ultrasound before a woman can get an abortion. Let me bring in Joey Jackson on the case with us today. And I just want to quote the judge here in striking down the law, calling it "unconstitutional and unenforceable." That said, where does this go next?
JOEY JACKSON, ATTORNEY: Well, where it goes, Brooke, is to the appeal. Here is why. Remember all the problems that initially there were in developing this law. It was initially passed by the Republican legislature in Oklahoma and given to the governor. The governor of course vetoed it and the legislature overrode the veto. And there was a state placed upon the law so it never went into effect.
So if you know that's what preceded all this, you have to know now that it got into the hands of the judge, it was evaluated and the judge gave those indications that you did about the unenforceability and unconstitutionality. You know it is going to go to the next level of appeals court and they're going to assess it and they're going to evaluate it. And I would be curious to know what they will say. I have my thoughts about what they will, though.
BALDWIN: We'll see where it goes when it comes to appeal. That is just one of seven states that put this, they call it ultrasound before abortion mandate, that put this on the books and might Oklahoma sort of set the stage for the other states?
JACKSON: I think what will happen is this. Now, the fifth circuit, that includes Louisiana and that includes Texas and Mississippi, there is a very similar case out there. Only the judge, what do you know, decided it differently. So I think there will be some precedence setting here.
Another thing I believe is there is a case out there, you know it very well, and it is called Planned Parenthood versus Casey, a 1992 case, and it upheld the right for women to have abortion, but there is language in there about a legislature's role in making sure that indeed is based on informed consent and maturity. And so I think we will see the language come up again as the fights continue and the case is appealed. And who knows it may end up in a very high court that we know a lot about, too, because it affects everyone federally. You mentioned the other states. It is not only the other states, seven other states with similar laws, but everyone throughout the country with a vested interest in this particular issue. So I think it's going to go very far and it won't not last time we talk about it.
BALDWIN: Our nation's highest court very busy this week. This may perhaps go that way. We'll see.
In the meantime, let's talk Texas. This case out of south Texas, this army officer and two others with ties to the military, they're now sitting behind bars in Laredo, Texas, after being arrested by the DEA, and they say the men were willing to sell their U.S. military training for -- I should say to a Mexican drug car tell and the problem is this murder for hire project the men allegedly signed up for was a sting and they were taken into custody Saturday, a fourth man killed. And according, Joey, to the court documents, it sounds like the DEA was sniffing around when they stumble upon information about active duty officers willing to sell their training for drugs and money. But I want you to put on your defense hat, sir. How do you defend these guys?
JACKSON: Well, here is the issue, Brooke. It comes down to defending someone, what your job is depends on the unique facts of the case, right? And it depends on the nature and quality of the evidence. That is complicated when you enter into a sting. And remember, Brooke, they were followed, these individuals, in the plot for months. It means there is transcripts regarding tapes, tape recordings, video surveillance.
And whether or not your job is to get someone off or it is to mitigate the damage that is you're going to jail but make it less, it depends upon what the evidence is. Having said that, I think there might be a couple of things they can argue, one of which, we didn't really intend to kill anybody, we don't have the capacity to do it, we don't have the ability to train anybody to do it. And so the question of their intentions is going to play big in any defense.
And furthermore and finally, Brooke, the issue as to what brought them to the whole murder for hire was the agent themselves. The defendants weren't going around saying can we kill people for money? The agent suggested that, you know what, hey, let's raise the ante here. If we had these people to kill and we paid you, could you do it? And the issue of entrapment will come up as well and there is a lot of evidence and it is an uphill battle they have to fight to be sure.
BALDWIN: And this is civilian, military, apparently one of them left earlier in the month and one is active duty. So we'll see, Joey Jackson. There's lots of layers, as always, and that's why we talk about these cases. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Coming up, are you getting ripped off at the doctor? Up next you will hear how much certain procedures cost in America compared to the rest of the world. Stick around. You want to hear this.
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BALDWIN: We were just talking about how the U.S. Supreme Court has been busy this week. They are now deciding if the government can require nearly every American to have, to buy health insurance. You have the nine justices, the ultimate legal experts, looking at this particular law.
But today we're going to look at the system that the state of the U.S. health care in America and also around the world and I want to bring in T.R. Reid, the author of "The Healing of America," a book about how much more Americans pay for medical services. So you know, take natural child birth, just an example, $9,000 here. It costs you $1,500 in Canada, $800 in Japan, and in the U.K., zero dollars. T.R. Reid, hello. You have been traveling the world.
T.R. REID, AUTHOR, "THE HEALING OF AMERICA": Good to see you.
BALDWIN: Let me begin with this, and heaven forbid you break a leg. I am thinking about this. My executive producer recently did this. Let's say you need surgery -- she is not really laughing. That's OK. We use it as an example. You need plates and screws and what have you. What does that cost you if let's say fast forward to 2016, if this health care law stays versus if it is struck down? Talk to me about cost.
REID: Well, even with the health care law in place, we're still going to be paying three, four times as much as the other rich democracies for the same procedure. I'll give you an example. I live in Colorado. I fell skiing and the doctor says you have to get an MRI on the neck. It cost me $1,234. Six weeks later I was in Japan and I noticed he had an MRI machine and I said what would with it cost to do a scan and he looks it up, $110 for the same procedure. That's the difference.
BALDWIN: Wow, $110. Say you're in a country --
REID: And I can tell you how they did it.
BALDWIN: Go ahead. How's that?
REID: The reason is how did it happen?
BALDWIN: Yes.
REID: The Japanese health ministry imposes price limits, and they kept lowering the price that doctors could get for a scan. So the docs went to the scan makers and said, hey, you have to make a cheaper machine. We can't pay $1 million for a machine if we're only getting $100 for each scan. So now the big Japanese makers are producing scanning machines that cost about a 10th as much as the GE or Siemens version. They're not quite as good, but for looking at my neck they do as well and cost one-12th as much.
BALDWIN: Let's say you're in a country talking socialized medicine and everyone is insured, how much would it cost there? And why is it so much more here?
REID: It's here more because the drug companies, the hospitals, the device makers, the makers of scanning machines have convinced Congress and the government that and the insurers that we have to pay more to pay for their high tech research, and they do great research, no doubt about that. But I am not so sure about that, Brooke. You take very popular pill, Crestor, a pill I take, one of the five best- selling pills in the world. The same pill in the same factory -- I used to pay 34 cents a pill in Britain. I looked it up today, and in America $5.20 a pill for the same pill, in Japan, 80 cents, Canada, $2. The drug companies say Americans have to pay a lot to pay for our fabulous research. You know what, Crestor was licensed from a Japanese company. That's Japanese research that paid for it, but the Japanese don't pay through the nose for this pill.
BALDWIN: But if we're talking about pills or MRI machines, how would our costs for insurance change even if the highest court deems this law constitutional? They still need to make the machines. They still need to make the pills. How will the costs be regulated?
REID: Well, if there were price pressure coming from either the insurers or Medicare or something, as happens in other countries, they would have to get their prices down. But one of the disappointments about Obamacare is it doesn't have much price control in it. It has a few pilot projects, but basically prices are going to keep going up under Obama area just unfortunately as they have in Massachusetts. That doesn't happen in the other rich democracies because the health ministry or somebody keeps pushing prices down. And guess what, the industry reacts and lowers the prices.
BALDWIN: T.R. Reid, his book is "The Healing of America." I appreciate you coming on, and hope you're back on the slopes in no time. Appreciate it.
REID: Tomorrow, Brooke. Thank you.
BALDWIN: Now this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is mom? What's she stopping for?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Listen to the kid's voice. Flames begin to close in a dramatic escape caught here on I had have. You are about to see the entire thing play out. Hear from the family next.
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BALDWIN: Coming up next, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Gloria Borger, chief political analyst in the big chair today for Wolf. Miss Borger, good to see you. What do you have?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you. Well, we'll talk about the president's new plan on oil. He understands that oil prices are hitting Americans really hard, so today he came out and said let's get rid of those oil subsidies and striking at oil companies.
We're also going to talk about Marco Rubio. As you know, Brooke --
BALDWIN: Yes.
BORGER: -- he endorsed Mitt Romney. Jim Acosta caught up with him and we'll have to hear what he has to say about why Romney and why now. And we'll talk about that lottery, what is it?
BALDWIN: It's $540 million.
BORGER: Have you bought your ticket?
BALDWIN: No. I'm not going to win.
BORGER: I don't know. You never know. Feeling lucky, as they say on Google?
BALDWIN: We'll see. We'll see. Maybe I'll do it.
BORGER: Think about it.
BALDWIN: All right, we'll see you in a couple of minutes. Thank you so much.
And "from daylight in the pure darkness," a quote from his father in Colorado describing his drive as a family tries to outrun a wildfire. This is a fire that so far has killed two people and a woman is missing. Let me set this up for you. This father is in the car with his kids and mom's in another car leading the way. The dad's name is Doug Gulick, and he says he turns the corner and this is what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll make it. We're going to be fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy, where's mom? What is she stopping for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's down there. It's down there. There it is, right here. Right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK. We're out. We're out. We're out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: What gets me is the panic of the daughter's voice after seeing her mom stop. And then mom explains why she did stop the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM OLSON, FAMILY ESCAPED COLORADO WILDFIRE: I had to put on the brakes to figure out that I could get my hand to the lights and turn those on, and I was also considering that we might not make it through and maybe we need to turn around like my husband said. And my dad and my brother both firefighters, and I know that one of the dangers is if the road becomes blocked with trees that are down, and I was concerned we would just get trapped inside. So the neighbor that passed us, we didn't know that that neighbor knew the way out, but he was flying, and so we went for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Some silver lining for this family. It looks like their home was spared, at least. But Jefferson County officials say the fire is just 15 percent contained.
And or 28 days he was lost at sea. He even had to toss the bodies of his two friends overboard after they died of thirst. Imagine. Coming up next, you're about to see brand new pictures of the survivor and hear his incredible story.
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BALDWIN: Lost at sea for 28 days, living on nothing but raw fish and rain water. And 18-year-old Adrian Vasquez was adrift off the post of panama on a fishing boat. His two friends died of thirst, so he actually had to toss his friends' bodies overboard. But now after spending four full weeks clinging to life, Vasquez is home. Rafael Romo, the story is absolutely amazing. You talked to this guy. First, take me back. What happened?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, it started as a fun trip for three friends. They had access to a fishing boat and they said we're just going go fishing overnight near the coast of Panama, which is when fish are the most plentiful. The problem is in the middle of the trip the engine fails, and so there's nothing they can do. They had no tools. They had no way of returning to the coast. And so they were hoping that by morning they were going to be back at the coast.
The total opposite happened. They started getting further away and away and away from Panama, and they ended up 600 miles away from where they had started, near the Galapagos Island off the coast of Ecuador. By that time two of the friends had died and only Vasquez was surviving.
BALDWIN: So the engine fails. He ends up surviving 28 days and you say he sees his friends die right before him. How is he doing?
ROMO: He's not doing very well. I had an opportunity to speak with his mother yesterday and she says that he's not speaking very much. He doesn't really want to talk about what happened.
BALDWIN: I'm sure he's traumatized.
ROMO: Completely. He was going to be taken to a psychologist today so they are just giving him time to process what happened and you see two friends die. That has to be horrible.
BALDWIN: I can't imagine. I don't ever want to imagine. And then you have these 28 days. How did he survive? Was he eating?
ROMO: Yes. They had some fishing equipment that he was using to fish, at first, but then the original fish they caught started rotting. So it can't last too long. And the problem was they didn't have much water for only a day or two, and then after that they depended on whatever rain water they would get, and that's how he remained alive. But obviously, the two friends didn't make it.
BALDWIN: Wish him well. That's tough, beyond tough. Rafael Romo, I appreciate it so much.
And I appreciate you all tuning in each and every day. I'm Brooke Baldwin here at CNN world headquarters. Let's go to Gloria Borger sitting in for Wolf. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now.
