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Candlelight Vigil for Trayvon Martin; GOP Spotlight on Wisconsin; Piers vs. Toure on Trayvon Martin; One in 88 have Autism
Aired March 31, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us.
We're going to begin with this. It is a place where Trayvon Martin used to run and play, a place where he was among friends and learned life lessons -- long before a bullet ended it all.
Right now, a candlelight vigil is being held in Martin's honor at the field where he grew up playing youth football.
John Zarrella is at that vigil for us now.
John, tell us what's happening.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, they're just now getting started here. In fact, still waiting on Trayvon's parents to arrive. They should be here momentarily. But as you mentioned, this is the field near Miramar, Forzano Park, where he grew up, Trayvon grew up, spent his time since he was 5 years old playing ball here and then when he finished playing ball, when he went into high school, he ran the concession stands literally up until the time of that tragic night.
I'm joined by Coach Carter Eve.
And, Coach, you've been here 10 years you were telling me. So you knew Trayvon pretty well.
CARTER EVE, TRAYVON MARTIN'S FORMER COACH: Yes. Trayvon was a young, handsome, hardworking kid. Since his dad brung him to us, he trusted us to coach him and build him up and build his self-esteem up and just keep him, you know, doing the right things in school and he's always been a hard working player, ever since he left North Dade and came to Miramar. His heart was blue and gold all the way. He gave you his all. That's all he knew, was to play his all.
We had a super bowl. And we was the underdogs. North Side was predicted to beat us to death. And this kid came to me and Coach Jerome and told us that, coach, you guys will leave super bowl champions today. I'm not going to give up until the end..
And we were super bowl champions. And I owe him my gratitude -- gratitude toward him is just heart warming because this kid did all he could to win me a super bowl. My first super bowl as a head coach.
ZARRELLA: How long ago was that?
EVE: That was in 2005.
ZARRELLA: That's a while ago now. You got a group of people here, probably 150 so far. This is a special night though. We've been saying this, because many of the people here, in fact, probably most of them, knew Trayvon. Not like a lot of other marches where there were a lot of people not closely connected.
EVE: Yes, most of these people out here basically raised Trayvon, you know. Trayvon when he came out, he was knew to the park and basically he became like your son. That's like my son. That's my second son. I have one son, Carter Jr., who's 13, who Trayvon really taught him, you know?
We would always put the big kids up against the little kids. My son would be like, dad, he's killing me. But I said, it's going to help you out in the long run.
Trayvon was just that type of kid. He loved everybody. He loved you. He would come to you. And there's probably some things he told me he wouldn't even tell his dad, you know, being that the respect, that he knew that, you know, I would give him the best advice I could.
ZARRELLA: Coach, thanks so very much for taking the time.
And again, Don, just getting started here. Still awaiting Trayvon's parents who are on their way and should be here momentarily -- Don.
LEMON: John Zarrella, thank you very much. We appreciate your reporting.
Tempers are flaring across the country over the Trayvon Martin shooting. But one of the most heated conversation about it took place right here on our air. CNN's Piers Morgan going head to head with culture commentator Toure. Just take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOURE, CULTURE COMMENTATOR: Another black person who is unarmed and innocent and not doing anything wrong has been killed. This is incredibly painful and goes back before you were born and before your father was born and before my grandfather was born.
So these are things --
PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT: Yes.
TOURE: -- that hurt as an American very deeply and you are too new to this situation to fully understand what's really going on here and what's really at stake for America.
MORGAN: What a load of fatuous nonsense you speak, Toure, don't you? You think you have the only right to speak about what's serious in America. You think I don't have the right as somebody from Britain who spent the last six, seven years here to address a story like this for the seriousness it deserves --
TOURE: Six whole years. You have the right --
MORGAN: -- and the responsibility --
TOURE: You have the right --
MORGAN: Yes --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That discussion blew up into an outride war between those two. We're going to show you more of that, much more of that.
And I'm going to talk with two guests about the way racial tensions are simmering around this case and the country. What's going on here? We're going to do that at the half hour. Make sure you stay tuned.
Mega Millions lottery frenzy over for most but we know there were three winners last night. They'll divide the massive $656 million jackpot. That means each of them will get about $218 million. Lottery officials say the winners are from Maryland, Illinois, Kansas. Nobody has come forward yet. But in the Kansas and Maryland, we may never know who the real winners are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MARTINO, DIRECTOR, MARYLAND LOTTERY: Maryland is one of the few states that does not require publicity of its lottery winners. So we had two Powerball jackpot winners last year and neither one of them decided to do any publicity. So we'll have to see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: At least 42 people matched five of the six numbers. That means a payout of about $125,000 each.
Time to talk some presidential politics. It is Wisconsin's turn at the center of the Republican universe. The top candidates are attending a GOP dinner at the same place where a different event was held earlier today.
Our political reporters Shannon Travis is there for us now.
So, Shannon, two different events in the same day at the same site. Why all the attention on Wisconsin now?
SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, obviously, 42 delegates at stake, Don, here in Wisconsin, for the candidates.
But also something else that's pretty important. Let's talk about arc in story line. This is seen as the last opportunities to change the arc in the story line of this race.
Now, in terms of arc, I mean in terms of Mitt Romney's path towards getting 1,144. In terms of story line, you know, there's this notion by a lot of Mitt Romney supporters, even conservatives that they probably won't get to those 1,144 delegates. So, Wisconsin is critical because a lot of people are saying, you know what? Depending on the outcome here, it may be time for others to actually get out of this race.
Mitt Romney earlier today, he was at the same place at a different event earlier today, but at a campaign stop after he left here, he'll be back here for dinner together. He talked about what might happen should he win Wisconsin. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've got a ways to go before I get 1,144 delegates. So I'm not counting the delegates before they hatch, but I'm going to work very hard and hope I get a good strong sendoff from Wisconsin. I've got a good boost from the folks in Illinois. And if I can get that boost also from Wisconsin, I think we'll be on a path that will get me the nomination well before the convention, sure hope so. Thank you. Thanks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS: On a potential path to the nomination. He's going to have -- he's looking pretty good here in Wisconsin. The latest NBC News poll shows him seven points ahead of Rick Santorum, 40 percent to 33 percent -- Don.
LEMON: OK. So, Mitt Romney leading in the poll. Traveling with Wisconsin Representative Paul Ryan. I just want to know, can we read anything into his recent endorsement here?
TRAVIS: Yes, I mean, he got a trio of big endorsements just this past week. Marco Rubio, the rising Florida Republican senator. As you just mentioned, Paul Ryan, the House budget chairman. And President George H.W. Bush. All three of them endorsing them, but not only endorsing him but pretty much saying, you know what? This primary process is pretty much over.
The other candidates again having acknowledged that getting to 1,144 will be hard, if not impossible. And so, the Republican establishment saying, you know what, it's time for us to all come together and acknowledge that this race is over and get behind Mitt Romney. Obviously, you hear a lot of conservatives on the ground, activists, everyday voters saying, we're not going to let the establishment tell us what to do.
So, we'll see what happens.
LEMON: All right. We'll see. Shannon, thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
All right. In the last month, we've heard many versions of what happened the night Trayvon Martin was killed. Coming up, a former investigator joins me to talk about why conversations between dispatchers and police may need to be released.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: They arrive by the busload, thousands of people carrying signs, leading chants, proving that public outrage over the shooting of Trayvon Martin is only escalating.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
LEMON: Justice for Trayvon. It was on the banners, on the signs. A mass of protesters marching on the Sanford, Florida police station, furious about the way investigators handled the Martin case.
Police did not charge or even arrest George Zimmerman, the man who admits shooting Martin.
Reverend Al Sharpton says the anger won't relent until Zimmerman is booked and fingerprinted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: If you shoot us in Sanford, it hits us in Harlem. It hits us in Chicago. It hits us in L.A. We will stand together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: George Zimmerman got suspicious when he spotted Trayvon Martin walking in his neighborhood on February 26th and followed him. What happened between them isn't clear. But Zimmerman claims he shot Martin in self-defense. Martin was not armed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say it loud -- I am.
CROWD: I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are.
CROWD: You are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are --
CROWD: We are --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- Trayvon.
CROWD: -- Trayvon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The reach of this case has gone far beyond Sanford, Florida. This is a rally in Washington, D.C. Protesters held hands in a large circle demanding justice for the slain 17-year-old.
Very little is certain in this case but there may be something that could lend some insight into what happened that night. Senior law enforcement instructor Alex Manning joins us now. Alex is with us last week for our Trayvon Martin special. Thank you so much.
You know, there's something called a computer-aided dispatch report or CAD report. What are those and why are they important in this case?
ALEX MANNING, SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT INSTRUCTOR: Well, Don, you can tell -- the communication that happened between the police officer and the dispatcher. On there, there will be notations when they wanted an ambulance, when they were they scene, what they were seeing at the scene, requesting crime scene, requesting someone to come take photographs. All that is documented, exactly what the police did while they were there, or at least the assistance they asked for.
LEMON: And so, they have not been released, right? The CAD reports have not been released to the media. Why not? Why hasn't the police department?
MANNING: Very few. The only ones that have been released talk about the conversations between Zimmerman and the dispatcher. And there's -- they show the actual dispatching of the initial units but that's it.
LEMON: OK. So listen, many people are critical of the Sanford Police Department, demanding that George Zimmerman be arrested. But last week, we saw the surveillance video of Zimmerman walking into the police station, bringing him in. He was in handcuffs.
They said they didn't bring him in. They didn't handcuff him. But then we saw the video there.
Was that, in fact, an arrest?
MANNING: That would be what I would have thought is an arrest. When you are unable to leave, you are not free to leave, you are arrested.
He was handcuffed. He was placed in the back of a police car. That's as good of an arrest as it gets.
Now, whether when he got there he was charged is a different story. But he was arrested. They pulled in to the sally port, they closed the doors, they walked him into the building, put him in an interview room and shut that door. That's an arrest.
LEMON: OK. Zimmerman's brother spoke to CNN's Piers Morgan last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S BROTHER: We're confident the medical records are going to explain all of George's medical history, both how he was treated at the scene and how he was not. To me, his nose looks swollen in that video. I'm his brother.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, the initial report only mentions Zimmerman injuries in one line. Zimmerman was placed in the rear of the police vehicle and was given first aid by the Sanford Police Department. This seems very contradictory.
Is that contradictory or not? I said it seems -- I don't know, I'm not sure.
MANNING: It does seem contradictory. The police arrived on the scene at 7:17. The video stamp at the bottom when the cars drove at the sally port was 7:52. There wasn't a lot of time for them to get there, search the scene, find him, search him for officer's safety, handcuff him, put him in the police car, let him get medical treatment and get him to the police station.
I want to know what happened in those few minutes. That's what would matter to me.
And it does seem suspicious because it doesn't say "took photographs of the injuries." Law enforcement officer, even your first responding officer, the best thing you do is you document every single step that you made. One of the officers in the report said, I did nothing further. He wanted it to be known he stood there, had a contamination crime scene list, people coming on to the scene, he did nothing further.
So then when you go into court, someone asks, what did you do? He can look and say, this is all that I did. The two initial responding officers' reports should have been more. Mind you, it's a partial report.
LEMON: What do you mean should have been more? This is the first time I'm hearing -- I've heard from law enforcement people saying that they thought the investigation was handled poorly. But when you're -- what do you mean it should have been more?
MANNING: There probably is. On the police report we have, it says it's a partial report. There's very little these initial officers said in their report. Maybe two, three -- well, two sentences really, a paragraph, but two or three sentences. And that's it.
There should have been a much longer report. They got there. A lot more happened than them just looking around the scene, placing Zimmerman under arrest -- what they saw, who they called they out, what time they got there, what other assistance they needed.
Hindsight's 20/20. And also say, like I did last time, maybe I've played basketball longer than LeBron James but it doesn't mean I'm better than him. So, I'm not suggesting that I'm a better police officer than these police officers. But I was a officer long enough to know that this is not enough in a report.
And I'm hoping and trusting that they have more of a detailed report.
LEMON: And are those reports --a longer, more detailed report usually released to the media? But I have seen where there are longer, more detailed reports. There are also summary reports as well.
Do you think there's a longer, more detailed report? If this is it, that's trouble.
MANNING: If this is it, this is trouble. This is definite trouble. There should be.
A lot of times when they won't release it, they'll say it's still under investigation. And that's fine, because they don't want to distort it. Obviously, jury pools, things like that, where a lot released. So, there could be more. Even some of the other police report s from the other 911 call said public police report, public copy, because there's some things in there, if they're minor children, stuff like that, you don't necessarily want released.
I'm hoping there is more than this. And aside from the horrible tragedy that happened to Trayvon, if this is all they've done, and I'm really hoping they're not, because they seem to be a very good police department, that is the tragedy. The focus needs to be on the job they either did or did not do.
He was under arrest. He appeared to be under arrest. Why they let him go or un-arrested him? I have no idea.
LEMON: Alex Manning, thank you. Good stuff. Appreciate you joining us.
All right. On to other stories now. If you use credit or debit cards, you may want to check your accounts to make sure it is correct. We'll tell you why right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Let's check your headlines.
A candlelight vigil for Trayvon Martin is going on now in Miramar, Florida. It is happening at a football field where Martin used to play. This follows a massive rally earlier at a police station in Sanford. Protesters are angry that police haven't charged or even arrested Zimmerman, the man who says he shot Martin in self-defense.
A few individuals awoke this morning multimillionaires. Nobody has come forward yet. Well, we do know the three winners of last night's Mega Millions lottery will divide the massive $656 million jackpot. That means each of them will get about $218 million -- $218 million each.
Lottery officials say the winners are from Maryland, Illinois and Kansas. At least 42 people matched five of the six numbers. That means a payout of about $125,000 each.
Congratulations. Congratulations.
I want you to take a look at your next credit card or debit card bill. As a matter of fact, you should probably check your statements online right now and the status of your credit card. Your accounts may have been or may be in the process of being hacked. It stems from a data breach at one of the largest payment processing firms in the world. It's called Global Payments.
All major card brands may have been compromised. According to one security company, as many as 10 million Visa and MasterCard have already started alerting customers. Check your accounts. Check your accounts.
If you missed last night's interview with CNN's Piers Morgan and culture commentator Toure, you missed a very heated discussion the subject of the Trayvon Martin killing and race in America.
We're going to play some of it for you next here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. Pull up a chair. This is going to be a very thought provoking conversation. No holds barred here.
First, though, I want to play something for you. It's about the simmering tensions that are boiling over in the Trayvon Martin case. And one of the most heated conversations about this particular topic took place on our air between CNN's Piers Morgan and culture commentator tour.
It started when Piers invited Robert Zimmerman, Jr. on his show on Thursday. He is the brother of the man who says he shot Martin in self-defense, George Zimmerman.
Now, Toure started a Twitter war over it. He said allowing Zimmerman to spout unchallenged lies further poisons a tense moment in American history. Toure said, be professional.
Piers tweeted back, "Oh, Toure, you're such a tedious little twerp."
Toure -- this is what he said, if at a cultural moment in American history, i.e. now, you allow people on your show to spread misinfo and lies, you're damaging America.
And then Piers said, "With respect, Toure, I don't think I'll take professional journalistic lectures from a bulldogging rodeo clown."
All right. Those all happen. You can go to Twitter and look at it.
Toure says, not sure what my hosting I'll try anything once has to do with anything when Piers Morgan was a pawn on Donald Trump's show #GlassHouses.
And then Piers said, "Stop whining, Toure - either come on and debate this with me, man-to-man, or stick a cork in it."
Well, he took the challenge and he went on. We condensed that and that's what really was on Twitter. It all came to a head last night when Toure accepted Piers' challenge on his show.
And we're going to show some of that. It's combative. Sometimes it's uncomfortable to watch. But it's one of the most riveting conversations you're going to see about the Trayvon Martin case.
So listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN: Are you saying that Robert Zimmerman invented, his story or my interview last night? Are you saying that his father who an hour before our interview just now has taken place, was asked directly is there an estrangement and said directly there isn't, is he lying too? Is everybody apart from you lying? And are you abreast of more information that anybody else in America right now?
TOURE: One thing I notice is obviously the Zimmerman family is banding together to try to keep George out of jail for the rest of his life. So that's quite obvious what their motivation are to say the things they're saying.
I also noticed that between Robert, George and the father, and the attorney, that there are not consistent stories being told. So we're not getting a consistent story that we can wrap our heads around. I mean, we have not heard before that he was actually going to Target instead of on the neighborhood watch.
You know, he's sort of reading some of the story from the "Orlando Sentinel" and making some or the other story up. And I don't understand why it's not clearer to you why this is a witness who needs to be treated a little more hostility and pushed back a little more. And why other people are not rushing to have him on their air waves, because he doesn't know George Zimmerman that well. They haven't spoken about this, which also Joe Oliver who you quote has admitted he's not spoken to George Zimmerman about this.
So, was he telling us things that may or may not have happened that evening when he too has not spoken? These individuals are not telling --
MORGAN: Toure, Toure --
TOURE: -- a consistent story. They're spreading misinformation. And this is not --
MORGAN: Toure --
TOURE: -- helping America at an incredibly difficult moment.
MORGAN: Yes, if I could just point out two things. One, Brian Williams, I think you're aware of him, he's the face of NBC News, through his "Rock Center" show, they are trying to get Robert Zimmerman on the show. Are you aware of that?
TOURE: That's not the information I had 30 minutes ago.
MORGAN: OK. Maybe news has taken over for you.
Secondly, you tweeted this, this was on the 19th of March. "New slang, you're Zimmermanning me equals you're killing me." That's pretty serious responsible piece of journalism, isn't it, Toure?
TOURE: In the first days, in the first weeks of the situation, what many people were doing, what I was trying to do in that, was to pile on and to say, hey, look this guy is not doing the right thing. This guy has harmed somebody in our community.
Some people misconstrued that and I'm sorry about that. But this is an incredibly serious situation. And I understand --
MORGAN: But so serious you felt -- so serious you felt the need to do stupid jokes.
TOURE: Again, you don't really understand America because what I was trying to do there --
MORGAN: No, no, I understand America very, very well, Toure.
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: Something you might call the blues, you might black humor, not African-American humor but black humor, dark humor. These are things that are common in America, sort of bluesy laugh to keep from crying.
MORGAN: Dark humor.
TOURE: Because once again another black person who is unarmed and innocent and not doing anything wrong has been killed. And this is incredibly painful and goes back before you were born and before your father was born and before my grandfather was born.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Yes.
TOURE: So these are things that hurt as an American very deeply. And you are too new to this situation to fully understand what's really going on here and what's really at stake for America.
MORGAN: What a load of factous nonsense you speak don't you. You think you have the only right to speak about what's serious in America? You think that I don't have the right as somebody from Britain who's spent the last six, seven years here to address a story like this -
TOURE: Six whole years. You have the right.
MORGAN: - the responsibility - as much right as you do to have a comment on this -
TOURE: -- understand what's going on here -
MORGAN: What don't I understand?
TOURE: - six whole years in america allows you to speak about our most difficult -
MORGAN: What don't I understand about America that relates to this story?
TOURE: You don't understand the depth of the pain in the American soul that is at play in this situation.
MORGAN: What a load of nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You clearly don't watch my show. You don't have to. No one's forcing you to. If you had watched my show, you'd have seen exactly the seriousness and responsibility that I brought to our coverage in the last week.
TOURE: I'm not saying you take this case lightly -
MORGAN: - fascinating new information -
TOURE: I'm not saying you take this case lightly, but there are notes, subtleties, nuances, there's a depth of history within this, that you can't possibly understand.
MORGAN: Do you believe that George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin?
TOURE: Yes.
MORGAN: So you've already tried him, you've convicted him, you found him guilty of murder.
TOURE: You asked me what I think -
MORGAN: You call me -
TOURE: I hear a 911 call -
MORGAN: You call me an irresponsible journalist? Professional journalism -
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: -- I hear a 911 call in which George Zimmerman is clearly showing repeatedly racist bias against a person who he does not know and has never seen before and is pouring all these sort of stereotypes into this person. This is before we get to coon. They always get away, which is ridiculous because the jails are filled with millions of black men but he thinks they always get away. He's up to no good. He's got his hands in his pants. He's on drugs. It's a 17-year-old boy, walking down the street, talking to his girl on the phone. None of those things are true. But he's already said all those things.
And then we have the other 911 call. Which I imagine will probably be extraordinarily damaging if we ever get to a court of law, where we hear someone screaming, which clearly sounds like a young boy and not a 200-something pound 28-year-old man with a gun. A person, however, is screaming. There's a gunshot. And there's no more screaming. That sounds to me pretty damning. And it reminds me of the face of Emmett Till bashed in in the coffin where we see, here is evidence of a black body being destroyed wrongfully, innocently, and the justice system of course not coming to his aid.
MORGAN: Well, I raise many questions about the justice system, the legal process, as anyone who's watched the show in the last week knows. What I haven't done is convict George Zimmerman, because I haven't seen all the facts yet. You berate me for lack of professional journalism. You just said that you believe that he murdered him. You have a very biased one sided opinion of this based on your assessment of the limited amount of facts that we have at our disposal. That is your prerogative. I don't challenge you. I simply say that as a fact. You also think it's OK to do stupid dumb jokes mocking what did you call it Zimmermanning me, you're killing me? So we are different people. I like to think that I'm a professional journalist, Toure. I think that you are something else. But I appreciate you joining me tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I think that last bit said - spoke volumes. I think it's safe to say conversations similar to this are taking place across the country.
I want to welcome Goldie Taylor, political analyst and managing editor of the Goldie Taylor Project and Leonard Pitts columnist for the "Miami Herald." Thank you both very much for joining me. That last bit, the silence, spoke volumes. Leonard, I'm going to go to Goldie first, and then I'll come to you.
Goldie, what did you make of that? Is that - and I think those conversations are being - we just had a very similar one in our newsroom.
GOLDIE TAYLOR, MANAGING EDITOR, GOLDIE TAYLOR PROJECT: I think everybody's having conversations but I think what we just witnessed here was probably one of the most unfortunate displays of - well, the lack of journalism tonight so I - that's my short answer for that, is that I think there are some culpability on both sides with this. I was one of the people who wanted to see the show last night because I wanted to see what were the disagreements were. As it unfolded, I just sighed, yes.
LEMON: Leonard?
LEONARD PITTS, COLUMNIST "MIAMI HERALD": I can say it even shorter than that. I don't think either gentlemen covered himself in glory last night. There was nothing enlightening there. There was nothing that really moved the ball forward. It seemed more of an ego match than anything designed to shed light on the circumstances surrounding the death of this young boy.
LEMON: Leonard and Goldie, standby. More after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOURE: And you are too new to this situation to fully understand what's really going on here and what's really at stake for America.
MORGAN: What a load of factous nonsense you speak, Toure, don't you? You think you have the only right to speak about what's serious in America. You think that I don't have the right as somebody from Britain who spent the last six, seven years here, to address -
TOURE: Six whole years -
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Before the break, we watched a lot of that smackdown match between our Piers Morgan and our cultural commentator Toure. The subject of Treyvon Martin shooting and I've got Goldie Taylor and Leonard Pitts back here with me. So Goldie, you saw the debate last night. Here's what you tweeted. You said, "I've had my share of public disagreements with Toure but damn, I'm on his side tonight." Why did you say that?
TAYLOR: Well, I think there were two things. I think our Twitter friends and people who watch us on various networks have seen us come to disagreement over any number of things. Where I agreed with him was that I saw the interview. I saw the Piers Morgan interview Mr. Zimmerman's brother. And I thought that there could have been stronger follow-up. I thought that there were inconsistencies in the family's various stories that could have been hit maybe a little more dead on.
I think that it was as if we were visiting Oprah's couch. And I thought that was a very tough thing for me to watch. But you know, as a colleague, am I going to pull his coattail out on Twitter with everybody, I don't know. That's a call for Toure to make. But after that, the unraveling between the two of them went some place that was probably most unfortunate.
LEMON: Well, the inconsistencies when you said with some of the people. This Joe Oliver - I saw an interview that was not on this network with someone else challenging him. And for me, it made me question his credibility. But I didn't see it - that sort of interview anyone else. Joe Oliver doesn't really know this man that well. In that interview, it came about - it's obvious, it's no lie, he even said that. But on every other place, it's been said he is a close friend. And I said, why are we saying that he's a close friend of this man when he's admitted somewhere else that he's not?
TAYLOR: Yes, I've actually seen it a number of places where he was cornered down and nailed down on whether or not he was a close friend of George Zimmerman's. And you know, he had to admit on air on a number of networks that he, in fact, was not.
LEMON: OK.
TAYLOR: And so, that's put to rest.
LEMON: I want to ask you this. Leonard, did you want to comment on anything we've said so far? Can I go on another question for you?
PITTS: No, go on.
LEMON: You're good, OK. You wrote a column on Tuesday about this case. It's titled, "Privilege is about the Color White." The very first sentence is, I'm here to explain why George Zimmerman is white. Why is that so important to write or to define George Zimmerman as white when he is, you know, self-proclaimed on his voter I.D. that he's Hispanic?
PITTS: Well, that was written actually in response to - a large number of reader responses to an earlier column. They were upset that I referred to him as white. I pointed out there's two answers to that question of why he's white. The short answer is the Census Bureau will tell you Hispanic is not a race. And that Hispanic can be of any race. The longer answer which I spent the bulk of the column making has to do with the idea of privilege. And I submit that it is inconceivable to believe that a dark-skinned individual could shoot a lighter-skinned, pale-skinned individual, under the dubious and questionable circumstances that Trayvon Martin was shot and that the darker-skinned individual would walk away. He would not have that privilege. And I believe that that privilege is de facto what it means to be white in America.
LEMON: When you - all of this talk about race, about black, white, it's gotten a lot of people riled up and some people, you know, ticked off and everyone's going in their own corners, in their own silos. And just being an honest person, there's so much that's so obvious about this case and then there are other things that are nebulous and not as obvious. And to see people taking sides like this and some of the ugliness that it has brought about in the country is just disturbing to me. I'm not speaking as a journalist now, it's just sort of disturbing to me as a human being, Leonard.
PITTS: I don't know that it has brought about ugliness so much as it has revealed ugliness that has been there all along. You know, that I think is where I draw distinction with you. We keep hearing people say that we need to not rush to judgment with regard to this case. I believe that was Mr. Morgan's point also and certainly that's good advice.
Certainly there's history of African-Americans having rushed to judge something as racially motivated when it turned out not to be or turned out to be otherwise. But the other side of that is there's also history of our white American countrymen, countrywomen, refusing to call a thing a racial issue, even when it becomes glaringly obvious that it is. And I think that, you know, we need to - if we're going to have this discussion, there needs to be some honesty about it.
LEMON: Yes, I just had this conversation, this very similar conversation. I have to ask you this, Leonard. I know we need to move on. And if you know me, if any of you know me, I'm always seeking for diversity in every single thing that we do here on television, and in my life. And I thought the best two people to talk about this were you two. And I didn't think whether you were write or black, I just thought about you as professionals. Someone tweeted me and said, how about more diversity in your guests?
Now I do see - we know about the issue of diversity on news and diversity on cable and you will look up on the television and see people who are of one ethnicity all the time, and so why is that such an issue for people there are three African-Americans sitting on television talking about race?
PITTS: I suspect that having too many African-Americans on any given program is not generally a problem for CNN or any other network. So, you know, this rare confluence of events - I would suggest that the viewer or viewers deal with it. That's a silly - that's a silly thing to say. It reminds me frankly of a time when I was looking at television during the last campaign and the issue was whether or not Barack Obama was black enough. You had a panel discussion of three or four white journalists having that debate. No one seemed to have any problems with that then.
TAYLOR: I think the same is true when we talked about women's health care and contraceptives and we had panels full of men talking about, you know, those things. I don't think anyone complains when you've got, you know, on a particular program you've got all white commentators and a host. I think on one program I watched, I counted 12 people on a set who were all white and no one issued a complaint about the diversity on that particular show.
I think, you know, your asking myself and Mr. Pitts to be here tonight was about a viewpoint you wanted to hear that you thought might be interesting. Whether we are white or Hispanic or African-American, you know, what have you, I think really is largely irrelevant and should be irrelevant.
LEMON: Thank you, great conversation. That's all we want to strive here is to, number one, facts, but to get people talking and to open their minds and that's what we did in this particular segment. Leonard, thank you so much. Goldie, really appreciate you joining us as well.
PITTS: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.
LEMON: All right. Here's a preview of what we have ahead tomorrow on "CNN Newsroom" with Fredricka Whitfield.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A new study shows that one in 88 children have a form of autism. That's up, nearly 80 percent from a decade ago. Tomorrow, we're going to dig in to this new research and examine the enormous financial strain on families. Join me Sunday at 2:30 Eastern, right here in the "CNN Newsroom."
LEMON: All right. Thanks, Fred.
Next, I'm going to ask Dr. Sanjay Gupta while autism cases in children are so much higher than previously thought. His answer right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Researchers with the Center for Disease Control say the number of children diagnosed with autism, already painfully high, is even higher than previously thought. Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta has some answers for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Frankie Sanders is a ninth grader who loves to play chess on his iPad and is trying to pass the test for his driver's permit. Frankie also has autism. As you may know that's a neuro developmental disorder that affects language, behavior and social skills. Boys make up the vast majority of cases.
What you may not know is that 12 years ago, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began to estimate the total number of cases in the United States. They based it on a count of eight-year-old children with autism in select communities. If you look back in the years 2000 and 2002, it was about one child in 150 with autism. Two years later, one in 125. Then one in 110. And now the latest report as of 2008, the last time an estimate was performed, one in 88 children has autism. That's a 78 percent increase just over the last decade. And the question on a lot of people's minds is why.
DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: How much of that increase is a result of better tracking and how much of it is a result of an actual increase? We still don't know.
GUPTA: Researchers have discovered many genes linked to autism but in most cases genes are only one part of the equation and genes alone wouldn't change that fast in just 10 years. There is something else that triggers the problem.
GARY GOLDSTEIN, PRES., KENNEDY KRIEGER INSTITUTE: We're talking about infections. We're talking about social conditions. And we're talking about exposures to toxicants, things in the environment.
GUPTA: Researchers are still looking for answers. But what they do know is that diagnosing children early is critical. As was the case with Frankie Sanders.
ROY SANDERS, FATHER: Frankie was diagnosed when he was 15 months old. He immediately began to get speech therapy and occupational therapy and physical therapy. He was placed with a group with kids that were typically developing.
GUPTA: All that hard work is paying off. Frankie is now 15. He attends a regular high school and plays on the football team.
GOLDSTEIN: We can diagnose autism at two years of age almost always, almost always 90 percent of the children by three certainly. And we actually can diagnose it at 18 months in many children.
GUPTA: But according to this new report, most cases are diagnosed late, after age two or three. That's when therapy has been shown to help the most, especially with speech and communication.
ROY SANDERS: Parents need to be aware of their children and how their children are interacting.
GUPTA: And then they need to seek help.
FRIEDEN: If you as a parent are concerned about your child, talk to your doctor, talk to your school system to see if they should be assessed. Get them assessed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: I also asked Dr. Gupta why researchers think the number of autism cases has gone up so much.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (on camera): Everyone seems to believe it's a combination of genes and environment. That's the answer you hear for most things. But I put forth this, that you know, the numbers have really increased a lot over the last decade, 78 percent. Your genes don't change that fast. We, as human beings, our genes don't change that fast. So I think it puts more of the onus of this cause for the increase on the environment. Not just after a child is born but also in the mother's womb. Are there certain toxins, are there infections, are there exposures that are leading to this increase.
LEMON: Let's talk a little more about causes. So you said researchers are still looking for a cause. Is there anything a parent can do - you and I talked as this story was going on. Is there a test that you can do prenatally - or anything - is there anything that a parent can do?
GUPTA: You know, it's interesting because I'm used to being able to order a blood test or a scan.
LEMON: Right. Right.
GUPTA: Or something like that and you know, we may get to the point where scanning, for example, the brain can make the diagnosis early. We're not there yet. What everything seems to point to, and I think it's more than just platitudes, is that the early diagnosis does make a difference. So around 18 months even, which I have young children -- 18 months, it's very hard to pin down a child's behavior at that age for sure. But a child who's not recognizing his or her name, a child who does not seem engaged with you, he does not keep eye contact, those types of things. Those aren't exact - sort of things every kid's going to develop differently.
But if you take at a list there, and you know, some of those things sort of make sense for your child. At a young age, again, even before age one, it's imperative to get it checked out. Early intervention does make a difference, as you saw with Frankie Sanders.
LEMON: A child who doesn't reach out, doesn't want attention. Because most children are very clingy, they want mommy or daddy most of the time, right?
GUPTA: That's right. A lot of times those children don't even want that. There's sort of a lot of self-awareness, a lot of it's directed inward, and that's you why see some of the symptoms that you just saw there on the screen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Thank you, Dr. Gupta.
Up next, comedian Lewis Black rates President Obama's leadership. He apparently doesn't think it is a laughing matter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Stand-up comedian Lewis Black is famous for his quick wit and stark raving mad opinions. He is relentless when attacking social issues and both sides of the political aisle, on both sides of the political aisle. We caught up with Lewis Black on the road to get his take on the current presidential race and President Obama's time in the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEWIS BLACK, COMEDIAN: As far as I can tell, I don't feel that he reached out as much as he could have. I think he's aloof. And I don't think that really is good. I think he's kind of standoffish. You know, there's a sense he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. He's left too much up to Congress at times. There are times when the way it works is the president says something, this is what we're going to do and puts his, you know, hand around their throat and then they respond and they kind of work it to the point where then they - you know, you kind of have to sit down and work on it.
I don't think he's found that balance. I think he's been aloof when he should have been on top of them and he's been on top of them when he should stand away. It's weird. I didn't expect as much as everybody else did. I thought if he could get Americans to listen to someone actually speak in paragraphs that was what we would get over the four years. And that's really what we got.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And he is just warming up. Lewis Black also has a few choice words for the GOP presidential candidates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: I think that after listening to the Republicans literally go into a panic for four years as if something was being stolen from them, that - I can't say it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Oh, but he does say it, and much, much more. Make sure you join us tonight at 10:00 Eastern for Lewis Black, no holds barred, his views on politics, the '50s, and even mood rings. Hmm. That's coming up tonight.
I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World headquarters in Atlanta. CNN presents special report: "BEYOND TRAYVON, RACE AND JUSTICE," is next.
