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Breaking: Navy F-18 Jet Crashes into Apartment Building
Aired April 06, 2012 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Was it on fire at the time you saw it or it was -- it was flying erratically and it was just releasing fuel?
PILKINGTON: Yes, it was releasing fuel and I -- and I could still hear some sound coming from the jet. It sounded like the engine was straining or stressing. And it just kind of glided down. And I don't know that there would have been a better place to hit or a worst place to hit, because there's just so many apartment complexes around here.
MALVEAUX: Can you describe more that area of where the plane crashed?
PILKINGTON: Yes. It's -- we are maybe a half a mile from Virginia Beach ocean front, big resort area, lots of homes, lots of apartment complexes. And it's -- it's just a place that -- yes, anywhere but here kind of thing. Again, if it was a half a mile to the west, it could have been in a -- in a creek or a -- or a marshy area. And he would have had to have probably crossed at least one marshy area to get to this point.
MALVEAUX: How did you know that this was unusual or different? You say that you have got low-flying planes in this area all the time. How did you know this was something that was unusual and dangerous?
PILKINGTON: Well, I'll tell you, again, the way it was coming in, it almost came in like it was trying to land with the nose facing up and knowing the area, there was just -- there was just nowhere for it to touch down. There was no flat ground at all anywhere here in the direction he was heading. So, no matter what, I just -- there's nowhere he could have touched down in a safe way anyway. But again, just the sound, the jet fuel pouring out and how low it was.
MALVEAUX: When it first crashed, could you -- could you determine the response? Did people respond quickly? Were you able to see ambulances or police or firefighters?
PILKINGTON: It was amazing, actually, how fast that they did get here. I mean, they were coming from every direction. I think they probably pulled in from other cities and other areas and literally within minutes, I mean, there was -- there were fire crews up in the towers spraying. There were people heading toward the scene. It -- that was extremely impressive.
MALVEAUX: Were you able to see any people coming out of that apartment complex who talked about or any potential victims that were running away from the crash?
PILKINGTON: Not at all. I mine, there were people running away from of the crash that may have been coming out of the surrounding or nearby buildings because when the initial -- when the initial impact happened, there was debris and pieces of the plane that were flying everywhere. And it was hitting other buildings. And I'm looking at the scene right now and there's damage to different parts of the buildings all around it.
MALVEAUX: George, you say you're looking at the scene right now. Where are you?
PILKINGTON: I'm about maybe 200 yards from the scene across the street from that apartment complex, and there are, it looks like, four ladders up with six or eight firemen in the -- on top of the ladders spraying directly down into the crash site.
MALVEAUX: Describe for me what you're seeing around you.
PILKINGTON: You know, lots of people that are stunned and, again, there are numerous fire trucks, ambulances, lots of police, and I think, right now, the concern right now is that everyone is trying to make sure that if there's anyone in there that they can get them out, and the surrounding apartments they can get them out and the -- and the fire guys, which is amazing, which were that the flames were shooting up -- it's probably 60, 80 feet in the air, and these guys were up on the ladders shooting straight down. It was -- it was -- it was amazing.
MALVEAUX: Is the fire contained? Is that building still on fire now?
PILKINGTON: It's smoking heavily, not nearly as much as it was. For probably 15 minutes, it was just a thick, black smoke. Right now, it's smoking but not nearly as much. And again, they just keep adding more and more trucks, trying to put the thing out. And that it didn't -- that it didn't cause more damage to the surrounding apartments, I think, was definitely a blessing.
MALVEAUX: Can you actually see the F-18 from where you are?
PILKINGTON: I cannot. Initially, I could. I was at the scene initially and I pulled out of the way. I pulled my truck around the corner to allow for the fire trucks and everyone to get here. But there was a few pieces that were still intact, but, for the most part, it was just -- it was just a big ball of flames.
MALVEAUX: All right, I want you to hang with us, George. I want to bring back Barbara Starr to get some more information from some of the people that you're talking to there, Barbara. What have we learned? And I know it's just a little after the top of the hour. Can you summarize what we are learning about this Navy F-18 crash near Virginia beach?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Right, Suzanne. This is a United States Navy F-18 hornet. It is a D model, that means there were two people on board. We are told by the Navy that they ejected but their condition is not known or not being said by the Navy, at this point. We are told they did eject. We do now see this considerable damage on the ground. Just listening in to what your viewer was saying, as we discussed, you know, military crews are trained to steer away from populated areas, if they did not even have the time to do that. And this crashed sadly into the apartment building and this residential area, it suggests the possibility of a very sudden failure of the aircraft.
Your viewer talking about seeing the plane putting out fuel into the air. We don't know if that was controlled dumping of fuel, if you will, or perhaps the fuel line rupturing at this point. And we don't know, as we see this very significant emergency response in this neighborhood in Virginia beach, the status of any people, any civilians on the ground that were in their homes, in this apartment building. But we're seeing a very significant emergency response. The Navy is going to want to get to the crash scene, look for any of the recorders on board, get any indication it can from the plane wreckage about what might have gone wrong here -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Barbara, where was this plane coming from again? Can you kind of give us a sense of the lay of the land, where this neighborhood is in relation to where that --
STARR: You --
MALVEAUX: -- plane might have been flying?
STARR: You bet. It came out of Oceania Naval air station not very far away. It is a training squadron there. So, the assumption, at this point, clearly, is it was on some sort of a training mission with two crew on board. They fly through this area very regularly. They fly flight paths that are very well understood, of course, by civilian aircraft in the region. And the Navy has been down in this residential area of Virginia Beach for decades, operating both aircraft and their ships. U.S. Air Force is nearby, U.S. Marine Corps.
This is an area of Virginia, in southern Virginia, along the coastline, that is heavily populated by military installations, by military families. Lots of deployments out of this area. Pilots having served overseas for the last ten years. So, this is a community that is very well tied to the U.S. military. It's a real economic lifeline, I would say, for Virginia beach. You also see a lot of retired military, a lot of veterans living in this community area in Virginia beach.
Looks from everything we're seeing is -- on our air, all of us right now, as you see a bit of the wreckage there, populated area, residential, apartment buildings, some office buildings. This area of Virginia Beach, wooded areas, marshes as you get closer to the water, very sad business here. This is not something that we have often seen where military aircraft somehow is not under the control of the crew. Something very significant happened here that led it to crash into an apartment building. Now. I can't remember seeing this in several years. MALVEAUX: And Barbara, just to be clear here, you say this is likely a training exercise that this -- these training exercises are very common. Would this have been a common route for training exercise to occur over this residential area or this is the result of something that's gone terribly wrong and they happened to be over this residential area?
STARR: Well, I don't know that we know the answer to that with any clarity at the moment, Suzanne. It's a really good question. Certainly, they have no choice but to fly over some residential areas. You're not going to be able to avoid them entirely. But you put your finger on it, in whatever went wrong here, did it take them, in some uncontrolled fashion, off their routine flight path that led them to crash into this apartment building, into this residential area?
And clearly, this plane was operating at some top speed, if you will. Because as your viewer said, it crashed, debris was flying everywhere, people at risk, debris damaging nearby buildings. And we all know jet fuel burns very, very hot, very toxic in some cases. So this is something that they're going to want to get under control and we are seeing the emergency crews, of course, even as the flames are there trying to get into the area to see if that's any civilians that they can rescue.
MALVEAUX: And Barbara, the eyewitness, George, he had mentioned the fact that he saw very significant presence and very quickly a lot of people on the scene, emergency workers there. Give us a sense of the kinds of groups, whether it's from the military or on the civilian side that are in that kind of neighborhood to respond to this type of thing.
STARR: Well, there -- you know, I think in most populated areas in the country, these days, in the last ten years, many communities -- many local communities, have really beefed up their emergency response capabilities for a variety of reasons and, today, called into action because of this military accident. If the pilot, though, or the crew had a chance to make a mayday call to their military controllers, the military would have already been rolling out, trying to get people to the scene. If they had the chance to make that mayday call. We don't know at this point.
There is plenty of fire, police, para rescue, to get people to hospitals, to trauma centers as fast as they can, and get them whatever medical care they can have. But also at this point, as you see these pictures of the wreckage, to get into these buildings, these homes that are so badly damaged and try and get people out of there. It's midday, a lot of people may be at work, but maybe not everybody. And we still have not yet learned, this early on, the number of citizens that may have been in their homes when this happened.
MALVEAUX: Barbara, we're looking at some incredible pictures here. We have aerial shots. We also have some close-up pictures of what looks like wreckage, pieces of the plane there. I want to bring -- I want to bring in my colleague, Chad Myers, to ask a few questions, too, who's also an expert in these areas. CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Barbara, I don't know if you can see the picture there, but the two vertical stabilizers there. The F- 18 actually flew in -- a double-seated F-18, as the number seven Blue Angels plane --
STARR: Let me just look at my e-mail real quick.
MYERS: -- the Blue Angels are flying this type of plane, the F-8 hornet. Now, the one through six Blue Angels plane, all the single- seat seven plane is the trainer. And so, that's the only possible way that two crew would be in this airplane is if it actually as the training aircraft, the model D, otherwise, there's just a single seat. It carries an awful lot of fuel.
You know, this is, obviously, what the pilot's worst nightmare is to allow his aircraft to go into a populated area. If there was anything that the pilot could do to put that in the water, to get offshore, only a half a mile from Virginia Beach, he would have done it. There's absolutely no possible way that that pilot wants to put that plane on to the surface, on to the deck. When you take a look at all of those apartments around there, that pilot knew what that plane was getting into and had no other choice. This is a life and death situation and probably did it very late. He probably ejected very, very late, which means that's why we don't know what the condition of those two crew members are. They're probably very low when that ejection occurred.
MALVEAUX: Tell us what the significance is, Chad, of -- the people are describing this as the nose up of the plane and the fuel that was being dumped out.
MYERS: Well, once the pilots eject, you lose all type of the lift because now all of a sudden the cockpit is gone, the cover, the canopy is completely gone and so there's no control. The plane is flying itself and there is, obviously, nothing for that plane to go. Those planes have a very stiff (ph) spring on the stick and so literally going left, right, north, south, up and down, is a hard maneuver. You really have to use a lot of energy. There's a lot of input into that stick to make the plane fly. That plane -- that stick would've gone back to the middle, which would be a clear and level flight, although, clearly, it wasn't level. As it was coming -- I really would love to know if that really was fuel coming out of the back of the plane or was it just type -- some type of smoke, some type of other debris, some type of other fluid coming out of the plane, because that tells us an awful lot, whether that pilot actually lost fuel all together and had no other choice.
MALVEAUX: What would that mean if it was fuel, that he was ejecting fuel, would that be a much more serious situation?
MYERS: To me, it probably means a fuel line broke at some point in time and no fuel was going to that engine. You know, we look at the planes all the time and they go very fast and the maneuverability is amazing. I pulled 6.7 Gs on that airplane and it -- you will do better than that. But this plane, when you're on the edge -- and you're -- literally, you're at the edge of almost out of control all the time when you're in the combat maneuver, that's where these guys -- this is what the training maneuver is. Don't know whether the pilot was in front and the trainee was in the back or vice versa. Something, obviously, went wrong very close to the ground.
MALVEAUX: Chad, I want you to stay with us. On the phone, we have Zach Zapatero who, I believe, was on the ground and the person responsible for seeing some of the -- some of the amazing pictures that we are seeing. Zach, can you hear me?
ZACK ZAPATERO, WITNESSED PLANE CRASH: Yes, I can.
MALVEAUX: Where are you now and how are you able to take these pictures? What -- can you describe about what you saw?
ZAPATERO: Right now I'm back at Cape Henry Racket Club, where I was playing tennis when I saw this huge plume of just black smoke coming off. So I dropped my racket, ran over to my bag, grabbed my phone and just started running.
And as we came up on the scene, there's just these large fireballs just coming up. There's ambulances coming in from everywhere. And I actually hopped a fence to go around to on the side of the building where there weren't very many people. And through the smoke you could see the end of the plane just sitting in a courtyard. So I started taking photos. And buildings were starting to collapse. People -- I did not see anyone running out. And I was told that there was a bunch of senior citizens that live in those buildings, which it worried me a lot.
And it was just unbelievable. Law enforcement was really quick to get on the scene. But the amount of jet fuel that you could just smell on the ground, it didn't seem right. And these planes are flying over the Virginia Beach area all the time. And it seems these past few months they've been getting more and more daring with their maneuvers. Because where I play tennis is only about a mile away and they're starting to fly lower over us. It seems like they're going faster speeds. It seems like they're pushing these planes a bit too far around a residential area.
MALVEAUX: Zack, was -- how did you know there was something unusual and that, you know, you hear these planes all the time. What did you hear? What made you want to run outside and realize that this was different?
ZAPATERO: Well, I saw this huge cloud of smoke come up. And it was black smoke. And it came up really quick. And I was told -- you could hear just pops going off in the distance. And so I just ran. And when I get there, people are screaming. There's people sitting on the ground crying, hoping that loved ones are OK. It was a horrific sight.
MALVEAUX: Did you see anyone, Zack, who was injured? Did you see -- when you say the debris was flying and people were screaming.
ZAPATERO: I did see a few people stumbling out, going to ambulances. I -- it looked as if they were going to be OK. But I'm sure there was plenty of people in there that did not make it, unfortunately. MALVEAUX: And you say they were stumbling out. Where were they stumbling out of?
ZAPATERO: They were stumbling out -- there's a few entrances where you can get in and out of the building from. They were coming out from where all the smoke was coming from. Some were coming out from side doors. But it was only like three or four people.
MALVEAUX: Three or four people. And the building you're describing, you're talking about, is this the building you said that houses senior citizens? Is that right?
ZAPATERO: I was told by people in the -- that were watching that live there that there are a bunch of senior citizens that live there.
MALVEAUX: When you saw people leaving that building, you say it looked like they were injured. Can you describe the kind of injuries, what those people looked like?
ZAPATERO: Some of them had cuts on them that were bleeding. And a lot of people were just stumbling out coughing. All of them were. And it looked as if they were just -- had inhaled a bunch of smoke, but it was not a good scene.
MALVEAUX: When you were running, you say, were you running with other people? Were there other people around you? Was this a large crowd that you were with?
ZAPATERO: I was, I would say, one of the first on the scene. And then as like 10, 15 minutes went by, people were just all around the place. Police started blocking of areas. I was told I had to go back, because I was no more than 20 feet when I took those pictures.
MALVEAUX: What did you experience when you were so close to that plane? Was it difficult to breathe? Was it difficult to see?
ZAPATERO: It was -- you could feel the heat from the fire coming off and it was pretty intense heat. But I didn't have any troubles breathing. But just the amount of smoke coming off did kind of sting your eyes. But that was just about it.
MALVEAUX: Give us a sense of the area. What kind of -- how big is this area? When you looked at that plane and it crashed and you talk about the people running, is this a large area, or is it very small, contained?
ZAPATERO: Well, there are a lot of apartments in that area where that plane crashed and the fire seemed to be spreading extremely fast because it's so windy out. And I don't know if they're going to be able to contain it or not. It's just -- the area is -- where all those houses are, there's just tons of them. And they're right next to each other.
MALVEAUX: When you were pushed away behind -- when the firefighters came, what was the last thing you saw? ZAPATERO: The last thing I saw was just the building starting to -- you could see the bricks were starting to fall out from the building and you could just see that back of the plane just sitting in the courtyard when I left.
MALVEAUX: Was the fire out?
ZAPATERO: The fire was not out. It did not even seem to be close to out when I left.
MALVEAUX: And you say that you saw at least three or four people leaving the building that looked injured. Did you see anyone else?
ZAPATERO: I did not see anyone else leave.
MALVEAUX: All right. Well, Zack, we're going to get back to you. Obviously you've taken some extraordinary pictures. You were very, very close to that crash site.
I want to bring in someone else, Linda -- we're going to take a -- we're going to take a quick break before we bring in another eyewitness. Again, a Navy F-18 crashing into an apartment building in the Virginia Beach, Virginia, area. We're going to have more after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Following a breaking news story here. You're taking a look at pictures there. Those are aerial pictures. This is in the Virginia Beach area. This is where a U.S. Navy F-18 Hornet crashed into an apartment building. And from several eyewitnesses, they say that this is a building that was occupied and perhaps houses senior citizens. That there are some reports of people leaving that building with what looked like minor injuries. But we're still just getting information about this.
You can see it is smoky now, but there was a fiery crash. A lot of flames. Very hot. I just spoke with an eyewitness who was on the ground, who saw this all unfold just within the last 30 minutes or so. His name is Zack Zapatero. And I want to play just a little bit of our conversation. I understand that he's actually -- we don't have that piece of sound from our conversation, but Zack is on the phone with us still.
Zack, can you hear me?
ZAPATERO: Yes, I'm on the phone here, but I might have to go.
MALVEAUX: Zack, if you would, just describe for us and for our viewers, because you were one of the -- one of the people who got very close right after this crash occurred, what it was that you saw when you -- when you realized that this had happened.
ZAPATERO: Well, when I saw what was going on, I started running. And there was just huge, black clouds up in the sky. And I show up and there's a few fire trucks there, but not many so far. And I ran around to the side of the building where it seemed you could get closer to the fire. And what I see out of the smoke is what looks like the back end of a fighter jet. So I tried to get as close as possible. And there's just this fire coming off the back of this jet. And it's smoking. And it seemed that the fire was just going into the other buildings.
MALVEAUX: This is an area that is described as being residential. That there are a lot of people -- is it typical that there would be people on the ground, people in that building at this time?
ZAPATERO: I believe there would be some people in the building at that time. Schools around here are just getting off for Easter break. So I imagine there could be possibly people in those homes at this time.
MALVEAUX: And, Zack, you told me specifically you did see people that were leaving that building where the plane crashed. Can you describe for me how they seemed, what kind of condition they were in?
ZAPATERO: People had some cuts on them. And there are a few people walking out coughing as if they had inhaled a lot of smoke. Most of the injuries seemed to be pretty minor to my eye. But for the people that did not make it out, we have no idea.
MALVEAUX: Was there a sense of calm or did it seem like it was more of a panicked scene there where you were?
ZAPATERO: It seemed to be a pretty chaotic state. People were -- more fire trucks were pouring in. You had the planes in the sky just circling the crash site. It did not seem to be a very calm site.
MALVEAUX: What kind of plane, do you know? Do you know what kind of planes were hovering above?
ZAPATERO: It looked like the military fighter planes were hovering around, just circling.
MALVEAUX: Can you tell us, is it typical for these planes to fly over this neighborhood?
ZAPATERO: Oh, yes, these planes are flying over all the time. Constantly.
MALVEAUX: Did you hear anything that was unusual?
ZAPATERO: All I heard was a small pop off in the distance. It didn't seem to be much since I know these planes fly around here all the time. And then I saw the smoke and I just started running.
MALVEAUX: Zack, I want you to stay with us. I'm going to bring in my colleague, Chad Myers, who's an expert on these aviation matters. And from what we've learned here, do we think that this was a normal route? I mean it sounds like these are the kinds of things that happen where they hear these planes --
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. MALVEAUX: They fly low. They have these exercises. But, clearly, to crash land in a residential area, seems liked it would be a real act of desperation.
MYERS: Completely. Everybody that's flying that airplane realizes that you don't want to put that airplane down in a residential area no matter what. That's the last thing you need to do. And as the pilot was ejecting, and as it sounds like dumping fuel at the same time at a very low altitude, you don't really want to dump fuel at 100 feet. I mean it just doesn't do much good. It just helps spread the fire. But he was going -- that pilot was doing everything possible to get that plane and to keep as many people safe as possible.
Look at the size of that burn area. All of those buildings that are on fire right now, it's just -- it's amazing. It's -- there must be one, two, three, four, five, six buildings on fire here in that Mayfair (ph) area here. This is part of the reason why dumping fuel so low just spreads the fuel around. And some of these eyewitnesses were say that the smell of fuel was overwhelming. That's where the smell of fuel is coming from. Now all of a sudden you have all those vapors in the sky which are completely explosive. Where you saw that big black billow of smoke coming off as the initial approach came in and the plane went down.
The plane, obviously the pilots ejected. I have been online as much as I can be here while listening to you and listening to our reports that two parachutes were seen off the interstate, which is good. That means that they actually got to deploy the parachutes. If you try to eject at a very low altitude, sometimes you -- that parachute won't open in time and that pilot will hit the ground at a very high rate of speed. It doesn't sound like that happened. If parachutes deployed, that, at least, showed the pilots down to a decent speed to hit the ground. So that's great news for the pilots here.
But I'm more worried right now about the people here on -- in these buildings and can they get these people out? We know that the air space -- why this is such an angular picture is because the air space is closed right above that.
MALVEAUX: I want to go to the affiliate WTKR. They're interviewing an eyewitness. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN LIVE FEED)
PAT KAVANAUGH, F-18 CRASH EYEWITNESS: We (ph) apologize very much for hitting our complex. And I told them, don't worry about it. Everything's going to be fine. Let's just get you out of here, get you to safety.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you able to move him without any issue? Was he hurt otherwise?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I checked him over. Like I said, I'm a retired rescue. I did a body survey on him. He was in shock. Still strapped to his seat. So a bunch today (ph), we just picked him up and we dragged him to the other side of the parking lot away from the fire until rescue could get on the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a second person in that aircraft. Did you see that second person come out?
KAVANAUGH: We did not see the second pilot -- or I didn't know exactly where the plane had crashed. But I knew we had gas lines in the building so we had to get him away from where we were, because I kept hearing second degree -- secondary explosions going off. I don't know if that was fuel, gas lines in the apartment or what. But I knew we had to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the pilot came down, he was still strapped to his ejection seat?
KAVANAUGH: Still strapped -- his chute was in the seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's unusual, because they generally separate from those, you know, they were taking (ph) off --
KAVANAUGH: He had something on his lower half of his body, something heavy, because he was heavy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You and some neighbors were able to get him out?
KAVANAUGH: We were able to pick him up, drag him to the other side of my apartment complex, away from the flames until we could get more people and EMS on the scene to strap him up and take him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, let me get your name again?
KAVANAUGH: My name is Pat (ph) Kavanaugh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you spell Kavanaugh for me?
KAVANAUGH: K-A-V-A-N-A-U-G-H.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pat Kavanaugh here, you can see from his hat, a retired member of the Virginia Beach rescue squad here, an all volunteer squad here in Virginia Beach. And I know as we've talked to the firefighters earlier they train as best they can for incidents like this.
And as Pat, I'm sure can attest, as everybody else can, that you so hope nothing like this ever happens. Those jets do carry that very oily, oily jet fuel, which literally sticks to a lot of things. It is difficult for -- Mr. Kavanaugh, thank you very much -- it sticks to whatever lands on it, makes it so difficult to put out, frankly.
They have got to just douse this until the flames finally go out. It looks like they're making a lot of headway here now. You see a lot of people here. The officers in green, those are Virginia Beach police officers.
(END LIVE FEED) MALVEAUX: I want to go to Barbara Starr out of the Pentagon. Barbara, what do we know about the injured? I understand you have new information.
STARR: Yes, Suzanne, we are hearing now from our sources down in Virginia Beach that two patients have been taken to a local hospital. One of them, one of the crew members, not clear if it's the actual crew member that gentleman was just talking about, pulling out of the wreckage scene.
But we are told one of them was one of the aviators. Another one was a person injured on the ground. These are initial reports we're getting that at least two people had been taken to a hospital. The Navy says both crew members were able to eject, but certainly in a very difficult situation because you are still seeing the fire department pour water on this scene. This is really extraordinary.
Chad has talked about it. You and I have talked about it. For a military aircraft to crash into a civilian neighborhood, not to have the time to get itself out of the way, to even turn away the least little bit from a civilian neighborhood is extremely unusual.
It's a real indication that something went wrong here at the last minute. And it went very wrong that they were not able to control the aircraft in the least, because military pilots would rather do anything than crash into a civilian neighborhood where people live.
I spoke to the Navy again a few minutes ago. They are getting to the scene. There may be some military people already there, in fact.
They're coordinating with the Virginia Beach authorities because, of course, like any aircraft crash, they're going to want to get to the wreckage, secure the wreckage and get their hands on the flight recorders to see what information they can pull off of them about what might have happened here.
We don't know either if either of the crew members was able to make a mayday call before they ejected and whether they were able to report in the least detail what was happening to them and what caused this.
So the military now coordinating with local authorities very heavily on the ground as the response continues here. And you see them still endeavoring to make sure they have rescued everyone they can.
MALVEAUX: Barbara, the volunteer firefighter, Pat Kavanaugh, he had just reported that he found one of the -- one of those pilots and he was still strapped in his seat. Does that sound typical?
STARR: Well, to me, at least very initially, if he was still strapped in his seat it suggests perhaps -- and I am saying just perhaps -- a very low altitude ejection. You know, ejecting from a fighter jet is in itself something that's extremely dangerous.
Basically, what you have is a rocket-propelled charge under your seat. You pull the handle, that charge goes off and you're basically -- the cockpit falls away, the shield over the cockpit, and you are propelled into the air at a very high rate of speed. The seat should separate from you. Your parachute should go off and you should have enough time to safely parachute to the ground.
Not entirely clear to me here what this gentleman saw, what the situation was, because if it was a low altitude ejection, that's even more dangerous. That rocket-propelled charge would not be able to propel you high enough for you to have the time then to float down in your parachute.
So it's not entirely clear what situation the pilots were facing. Perhaps they were hanging in there until the very last minute to try and get the plane away from this area. That's what I think many people are going to look at, at how that might have unfolded, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Barbara, just to be clear here, you have reports now -- your sources telling you that there were two people who were taken to a local hospital. One of those would be the pilot and one who was on the ground, injured on the ground. Is that correct?
STARR: Right. We are told -- Art Deffensayers (ph) in Atlanta is told by local hospital authorities that two patients were taken to a local hospital. One was one of the aviators. One was a person from the ground, and certainly we know that other Virginia Beach hospitals are prepared to take any casualties if they receive them. We are not getting word of that at this point.
MALVEAUX: We're looking at some of these pictures, these aerials, and they're really extraordinary because you see at least six buildings that look like they had caught fire. It looks like the fire has been extinguished for the most part, but one of those buildings certainly looked like it had been completely destroyed.
Is it a sense that it's just too early to know whether or not there are many other injuries or casualties here? Or are we talking about these very low numbers?
STARR: You know, Suzanne, I think it's going to depend on how many people were home this time of day. We've had some understanding that there were people in this apartment building that this -- and let me be very clear here. It still remains to be determined.
This may have been an area of Virginia Beach where some senior citizens had lived. Hard to say who was home in the middle of the day. It's spring break time in many areas. Were there children around? I'm not alarming people, I'm simply saying we do not know yet who was around in the middle of the day when this happened.
But -- so there's a couple of factors to look at. Was it simply --hopefully -- that there were not a lot of people home during the day? Or are we going to see ambulances carrying away injured people from Virginia Beach and trying to get them to hospitals?
So far from the affiliate footage we're seeing, we're not seeing a lot of ambulances roll out of there. So that's one of the key things right now. Hopefully, there just weren't a lot of people at home.
MALVEAUX: I understand our affiliate is interviewing the mayor of Virginia Beach. We want to get them.
(BEGIN LIVE FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- from the traffic cameras of the big backups on 264, this is not the time to be driving on 264 in that area of Virginia Beach.
VIRGINIA BEACH MAYOR WILL SESSOMS: What I would ask is people stay away, stay as far away from this site as they can. They will not be -- any help getting there. Please stay away from it. Everything is going well there, but the more congestion makes it tougher to get emergency vehicles in and out. So I ask that you please keep -- ask people to stay away from the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mayor, is there anything you want to pass along to our viewers? I know at one point we did see this incredible show of teamwork and community involvement on the scene, where everyday people were helping firefighters move hoses. Were you able to see that?
SESSOMS: Let me say to you, you heard me just brag -- and I mean out of all bad sometimes there's good.
Let me say to you our city crews, EMS, fire, police, have done a superb job, but let me also say the people around there, the citizens of that neighborhood have stepped up and helped tremendously, too. We're so blessed to have them all working together and all we can do right now is pray that once we get into these buildings that our situation will be minimal as far as injuries or deaths.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this time, do you know if there's any sort of hotline number, anything the city is working on setting up for loved ones who may have family members in this area who want to call in for more information?
SESSOMS: I have -- I'm not aware of a hotline at this time. I will see about getting one established. But no, at this point, I'm not aware of one. Once we do, I'll have someone contact you to get that information out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms live on the phone with News Channel 3 this afternoon. We know it's a very busy time for you. We thank you so much for joining us today.
SESSOMS: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Mayor Sessoms, talking about the 55 EMS workers, the 65 police officers. That's just Virginia Beach City. You have the military workers. We know that ladder trucks and fire crews have been sent in from Norfolk to help as well. You have state police officers on the highway keeping folks off of 264.
If you're just joining us again by now you may have heard the FA- 18 jet had crashed into a Virginia Beach apartment complex about an hour and a half ago. This is off of Birdneck Road, near 24th. Just a couple of blocks on the other side of the interstate from the Virginia Beach Convention Center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we know --
(CROSSTALK)
(END LIVE FEED)
MALVEAUX: I want to leave our affiliate coverage. On the phone, we have Battalion Chief, Virginia Beach Fire Department, Tim Riley, the public information officer. What can you tell us about -- yes, what can you tell us about what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayor Sessoms?
MALVEAUX: Can you hear us?
TIM RILEY, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER; VIRGINIA BEACH FIRE DEPARTMENT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
MALVEAUX: OK. Tim Riley, it's Suzanne Malveaux with CNN. Can you hear us?
RILEY: Yes, ma'am. Yes.
MALVEAUX: OK. Can you please tell us what you know, what is the latest information about what occurred?
RILEY: OK, (INAUDIBLE) confirmed (INAUDIBLE) it was an FA-18 Delta two-seat military aircraft that's gone down inside the (INAUDIBLE) in the City of Virginia Beach. We have apartment building that's damaged. Two pilots basically ejected from the scene. They were transported to a local hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.
As of now, we have not had any confirmed injuries on the ground, but I do want to precedent (sic) it by saying there's significant damage to the five buildings and we have not been able to get through all these (INAUDIBLE).
So we anticipate potential for some injury or death could be there, but we have no (INAUDIBLE) -- we can't confirm anything (INAUDIBLE) just hasn't been through the whole complex yet. But we have not had any -- the good thing is, we haven't had any reported missing people.
You know, Sheehan (ph) is a significant part of Virginia Beach and we have had two military mishap trainings here over in the past two years and unfortunately today it came to fruition. But you know, we do have the military here and we do have an unified demand (ph) system and we have -- we have trained and planned for events of this magnitude.
MALVEAUX: And Tim, I'm sorry, the audio is breaking up a little bit. It's a little hard to hear you so I'm going to ask you to repeat yourself on some of these points here. But did you say that you anticipate that there could be injuries or deaths that you learn about later in the day as you get to those buildings, inside of those buildings that were hit?
RILEY: Yes. I don't -- I don't want to put any history -- (INAUDIBLE) have buildings that are, you know, have severe -- that are severely damaged. And it's going to take a long -- it's going to take a while to get through there and do a detailed search assessment.
MALVEAUX: Were those --
(CROSSTALK)
RILEY: -- (INAUDIBLE).
MALVEAUX: -- buildings occupied? Do we know if --
RILEY: Yes, ma'am.
MALVEAUX: -- those buildings were occupied?
RILEY: Yes, all the buildings were occupied and as I said earlier, though, fortunately, no one has so much, you know, (INAUDIBLE) command post that report anybody missing. So that's a positive sign. But, you know, we are going to have to go through five buildings that are heavily damaged to do a detailed assessment and search (INAUDIBLE) fire under control.
The most -- the majority of the fire is knocked down now.
MALVEAUX: OK. How do you know those buildings are occupied? Are they generally -- there's a lot of people in those buildings this time of day?
RILEY: Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if they're occupied. They're inhabited, you know, we have been in touch with the rental office and, you know, every one of these apartment buildings has people, you know, has people living in them. Whether they were at work or where they were, we don't know.
We're going to assume that, you know, there's people missing. And we're going to go and do a detailed -- you know, a detailed search of, you know, of all the buildings so we can confirm that there's nobody in there.
MALVEAUX: OK. And we've been hearing that at least one of those buildings is where senior citizens live. Can you describe for us these -- the buildings that were hit, that were on fire, that are smoking, what kind of buildings they are? Are they residential?
RILEY: They're typical -- it's a two -- typical brick veneer apartment complex with eight apartments per building, and we have five buildings that were heavily damaged. I mean, of course, near the impact area, the damage was worse than the perimeter.
And the perimeter buildings have been set -- have been searched, but the -- you know, where the impact zone is we have not been able to get through that area yet.
MALVEAUX: OK. Battalion Chief Tim Riley, we thank you for your time. We're sorry that there's -- the connection is a bit bad there in hearing you, but we do have the take-away there, that some of the details, five buildings he said, heavily damaged and at least eight units inside each one of those buildings.
It is not -- he's not quite certain how many people were inside of those buildings, if there is potential once they get inside of the buildings to see whether or not people have been hurt, injured or even killed from that fire and that crash. We'll going to have more on this breaking news story after a brief break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following the breaking news story here, U.S. Navy F-18D fighter jet, two-seater, crashing in Virginia Beach, Virginia, area, and in a residential community. At least five buildings that were impacted by this.
You can see the smoke, much of the fire has been put out by this crash. We know that two people were carried away from the scene, one of them being a pilot, one of them with an injury on the ground.
Just speaking with one of the folks in the -- in the fire department, a spokesperson saying they anticipate that there could be more injuries and something much more serious on the ground as they're able to get into those buildings once they're able to see. One of the buildings, we have been told, is a residence where senior citizens were housed.
One of the people who we talked to is Zack Zapatero. He's one of the first people to actually see that plane crash and the immediate aftermath. Here's how he described what occurred.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAPATERO: The plane (INAUDIBLE), I saw this huge plume of just black smoke coming off. So I dropped my racket, ran over to my bag, grabbed my phone and just started running. And as we came up on the scene there's just these large fireballs just coming up. There's ambulances coming in from everywhere.
And I actually hopped a fence to go around to -- on the side of the building where there weren't very many people. And through the smoke, you could see the end of the plane just sitting in a courtyard. So I started taking photos.
And buildings were starting to collapse. I did not see anyone running out and I was told that there was a bunch of senior citizens that live in those buildings which it worried me a lot. And it was just unbelievable. Law enforcement was really quick to get on the scene, but the amount of jet fuel that you could just smell on the ground, it didn't seem right, and these planes are flying over the Virginia Beach area all the time.
And it seems these past few months, they're been getting more and more daring with their maneuvers. Because I play tennis -- is only about a mile away, and they're starting to fly lower over us. It seems like they're going faster speeds. Seems like they're pushing these planes a bit too far around a residential area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: That was Zack Zapatero, who was actually on the scene, who took some of those pictures and saw the immediate impact of what had occurred earlier. That fighter jet coming from the Naval Air Station, Oceana, in Virginia Beach pretty close by.
Amazingly, there was a gentleman, a volunteer firefighter who actually found one of the pilots of the plane and tried to help him out to get him to safety. I want to play some sound from Pat Kavanaugh, who explains to one of our affiliates how he managed to find one of the pilots of the plane.
KAVANAUGH: I was in the apartment and I heard this three big, loud booms. So I got up from the couch and went to my back door, and when I looked out, I saw a pilot on the ground, parachute hanging from the building, facial lacerations, so I ran outside to see what I could do to help him. I'm retired rescue.
And I didn't know that the plane had hit the building till I saw the smoke. Then we had to get a bunch of neighbors together to get him out of the area, pick him up and take him to safety.
MALVEAUX: Want to bring in my colleague, Chad Myers, also an aviation expert as well. And, Chad, what does that say to you about the fact that this guy was still strapped in his seat when he found him on the ground?
MYERS: Yes, part of that is supposed to fall off, and if it didn't fall off, that means this was very low altitude, probably under 100 feet. So really the pilot didn't have time to do anything. And we knew -- we knew the pilot had time to do nothing at this point, or he never would have put that plane in this position.
He would have taken it to the water, water's not that far away, there was obviously nothing that this pilot could do to get that plane anywhere out of this residential area, it's the last thing a pilot wants to do, is put the people that he protecting, as a Naval or a military officer, it's the last thing he wants to do is put those people that he's protecting in any danger.
MALVEAUX: And, Chad, the fact that you have five buildings that were impacted by this, and the jet fuel that was streaming, according to eyewitnesses, what does that say about the kind of damage that we're seeing from this crash? MYERS: Well, as either one of the reporters said, it's very sticky and moves around. When it clings to a surface, it's going to burn for a long time.
It is -- it's an awful lot like -- it's not gasoline, it's jet fuel, it's a completely different animal, it burns in a completely different way, it's a little bit -- compared to gas, it may be a little bit less explosive, but it still burns hot and very heavy, you saw that big black plume of smoke. It was -- it was something.
And when they said that there was fuel coming out, which I means that I guess the dump was going on, the plane was literally flying by itself, nowhere to go. Those -- the pilots were gone at this point in time. And the plane was nose up as it hit those buildings, just says there was no control of that aircraft, obviously.
As soon as those pilots are gone, there's no control and it's going down and those pilots knew it. And even when the -- when the -- Mr. Kavanaugh said that he pulled that pilot off, the pilot was -- said the first thing he said, "I'm so sorry that I hit your building. I'm so sorry that I hit your buildings."
MALVEAUX: You mentioned something that I thought was very interesting, the fact that the oil, it's burning, it could be in the air and stay in the air for a while, and you could still have an explosive situation. How long would that last, where you would actually have those particles, highly flammable particles in the air -- it would still be a dangerous place to be.
MEYERS: Well, clearly over by now. You know, it's not just -- it's not the evaporation process. It's when that fuel was aerosolized as it was coming out of the plane itself, literally was making a plume of fog, a jet fuel fog as the plane hit the ground.
MALVEAUX: All right. I want to bring in a witness, this is Keith Gutkowski, and I believe that he actually has seen the ejection seat that the pilot had used, has a picture of it. Keith, what can you tell us?
KEITH GUTKOWSKI, F-18 CRASH EYEWITNESS: Yes, my -- I was actually in the house, my wife had come out to just check to see what the weather was like outside. And right when she walked outside of our condo, she heard the jet and then just saw it almost fall out of the sky with the previous one, and said it did come down with its nose up and the -- it was almost at an angle pointing towards us.
MALVEAUX: And, Keith, we are looking at pictures now of the ejected seat from the plane, in a -- that landed in a tree outside of your home, is that correct?
GUTKOWSKI: Yes, it -- the actual crash site is probably about 75 yards from where we are and the ejection seat came over, it hit one of the oak trees, and took a few branches off of that, and then it slammed into our fence at the condo. And it went through the fence into the home next door, which is a townhouse.
MALVEAUX: Keith, when you saw this ejection seat, was it just a seat or was there a pilot or a passenger in that seat?
GUTKOWSKI: No, no, thank God, there's just a seat. The seat will detach from the pilot when he pulls the parachute. But there's two seats, there's one that crashed right over here, and then the house right next to us has the other seat in the backyard of their house.
So what they have said about them ejecting very late, trying to hold on until the last end, is definitely true. Both ejection seats are right here. And then the parachute is right by the crash site.
MALVEAUX: The other ejection seat, you say, is close by, and we know that, from another person, they saw the pilot in the ejection seat. Did you see that pilot?
GUTKOWSKI: I did not see the pilot in the ejection seat. (INAUDIBLE). It looked like his -- one of the parachutes was over by -- right next to the crash site, which is about 50 to 75 yards from here. And then the ejection seat is about 25 feet from our condo.
MALVEAUX: And you -- Keith Gutkowski, I want to thank you very much for those details.
GUTKOWSKI: Yes, ma'am.
MALVEAUX: We're going to get back to you and learn more details in just a moment. But we are going to take a quick break and then hand it to Brooke Baldwin after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
