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Apple Accused of Price Fixing E-books; Where Is George Zimmerman; Zimmerman to be Charged; Romney Kicks Off Campaign Against Obama
Aired April 11, 2012 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. Happy Wednesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Let's get you caught up on everything making news this hour. Stories "Rapid Fire" style. Let's go.
First up here, Attorney General Eric Holder, we heard from him not too long ago there in Washington announcing that the federal government is going after Apple and two book publishers for allegedly trying to fix the price of e-books. The publishers I'm talking about are Macmillan and Penguin. Keep in mind, there are three other publishers, Hachette, HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster. They did settle with the DOJ today, promising they will no longer take part here. Attorney General Eric Holder saying e-book buyers have been paying $2 to $3 more per book because of this, to quote him, "conspiracy."
Also, Trayvon Martin's parents, they are on edge today. They're waiting to see if the man who shot and killed their son will be charged. The special prosecutor in this case says she will make an announcement about the case by Friday. That's the deadline she has set. Martin's parents, they're appearing at a news conference with the Reverend Al Sharpton right now. And not even the former attorney's for Martin's admitted shooter, George Zimmerman, know where is he is. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAL UHRIG, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: In this case, I will not tell you where George Zimmerman is, because I don't know. But for those who are engaged in the late Easter egg hunt looking for him, you can stop looking in Florida. Look much further away than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: More on that coming up.
Also, President Obama gave a speech to millionaires and their secretaries in Washington today. He came to promote what's come to be known as "The Buffett Rule." What it would do would be to tax millionaires at a minimum rate of 30 percent. President Obama says it's all about tax fairness. He's even considering a name change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What Ronald Reagan was calling for then is the same thing that we're calling for now, a return to basic fairness and responsibility. Everybody doing their part. And if it will help convince folks in Congress to make the right choice, we could call it "The Reagan Rule" instead of "The Buffett Rule."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: "The Reagan Rule," he says.
Speaking of the president and politics. It is day one of the general election campaign. Mitt Romney emerges as the Republican's choice to challenge the president. And guess what Romney's talking about today? Actually, don't guess too hard. We're going to have that for you in just a moment. Stay put.
Also, for the 12th time, mass murder Charles Manson comes up for parole today. And for the 12th time, the California parole board turned him down. In fact, Manson didn't even show up. He was represented by a state appointed attorney, who has never met him. Manson, now 77 years of age, was convicted of the 1969 murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others.
Also, not just one but two powerful earthquakes hit off the coast of Indonesia. The first quake had a magnitude 8.6. The other, 8.2. We are told there have been blackouts, traffic jams from people just running to higher ground, but so far -- so far no word of any deaths. Keep in mind, this is the same area, just off the island of Sumatra, that was hit by that quake and massive tsunami back in 2004, killing more than 200,000 people. Today's earthquake, it was a different type, resulting in no serious threat of tsunamis there.
Today Bobby Petrino woke up as the former head coach of the University of Arkansas. The university fired him last night for lying about an inappropriate relationship with a 25-year-old female employee. Petrino did apologize saying he has, quote, "no one to blame but myself," end quote. The affair went public after the two were involved in a motorcycle accident.
And the fueling process, it is underway in North Korea. Sometime over the course of the next couple of days, the North plans to launch a long-range rocket. It says the goal is to put a satellite into orbit. They say this is perfectly peaceful, but the U.S. calls it a disguised ballistic missiles test which threatens regional security. Meantime, South Korea calls it a grave provocation and Japan says it will shoot the rocket down if it violates Japanese air space.
And makes (ph) a heartbreaking story of a bride with just a short time to live with good hearted people ready and willing to jump in and help pay for a bride's dream come true. The trouble is, the bride's cancer story is a lie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA STOKER, FLORIST: It was very convincing. I mean she cut off her hair, she shaved her head, you know, in spots and so on. So she seemed it.
TOM KAVANAGH, JEWELER: There's lots of ways to trick people. Why would you do that, you know, come up with that story?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cancer?
KAVANAGH: Yes. It's a pretty hurtful story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Jessica Vega's story was more than hurtful. This week a New York grand jury charged her with felony fraud and grand larceny.
And we are just getting started here. We've got a lot more for you in the next two hours. Watch this.
It's the big question -- where is George Zimmerman? And it comes as the prosecutor announces, expect news very soon.
The man who replaces Osama bin Laden on the most wanted list is a schoolteacher. And the feds worry he could be posing as a tutor.
Plus, a woman spent years telling everyone that she survived the 9/11 World Trade Center attacks, but then a dark secret is revealed. She wasn't even there.
And a dad opens his newborn's coffin, only to realize the baby is still breathing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, want to talk here about a company that is making more money than any other company in the world. And now Apple is accused of using low ball tactics to make some of its very, very high profits. The Department of Justice is suing Apple and two book publishers. I'm talking about Macmillan and Penguin, for allegedly fixing e-book prices. And just this morning, these three publishers, Hachette, HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster settled with federal prosecutors hours after they filed the suit.
Now, prosecutors say these companies had back room deals that have caused you to pay about $2, $3, $4, $5 more for an e-book. And the attorney general now says it was the book industry's mission to go after Amazon, which had been selling e-books for just $9.99.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARIS POZEN, ACTING ASST. ATTY. GENERAL, ANTITRUST DIVISION: It's in the millions of dollars that consumers overall have been paying between of this conspiracy.
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Between regular near quarterly meetings, we allege that publishing company executives discussed confidential business and competitive matters, including Amazon's e- book retailing practices, as part of a conspiracy to raise, fix and stabilize retail prices. In addition, we allege that these publishers agreed to impose a new model which would enable them to seize pricing authority from bookstores. POZEN: I'd like to give you a flavor of the egregiousness of the alleged behavior which took place at the highest levels of these companies by providing you with some of the statements from our complaint.
We allege that CEOs of the publishers bemoaned the wretched $9.99 price point. One executive said that the goal is less to compete with Amazon as to force it to accept a higher level than $9.99.
And yet another. We've always known that unless other publishers follow us, there's no chance of success in getting Amazon to change its pricing practices.
Our complaint also quotes Apple's then CEO, Steve Jobs, as saying, "the customer pays a little more, but that's what you want." And he's referring to the publishers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I want to bring in our Silicon Valley correspondent, Dan Simon, who's live for us in Cupertino, California. Apple headquarters.
And, Dan, how is Apple responding? Are they even saying anything in response to these allegations?
DAN SIMON, CNN SILICON VALLEY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Apple is not commenting right now. And that's pretty typical for them when they face controversy. At first they don't talk.
But I think the way to approach this story, Brooke, is to kind of go back in time a little bit and talk about the evolution of e-books.
We all know that e-books are the future and printed books are going to be phased out over time. But if you look at e-books, Amazon basically invented the e-book with the Kindle. And it was a huge success and they were charging the books at a fairly low price, about $10.
Then all of a sudden, in 2010, the iPad comes around and the publishers want to figure out how they can sell the books for money. So they come up with a deal with Apple and Apple agrees to allow the publishers to set their own prices for the books, unlike Amazon. Amazon was setting their own prices. And Apple was taking a cut of the proceeds.
Well, in turn, the publishers go back to Amazon and say, we want the same deal from you or we're not going to sell you the books. So Amazon was forced to also charge the higher price for the books. So that's where we are and that's why the Department of Justice filed this lawsuit.
BALDWIN: OK. And so it's pretty obvious to see the change, the fluctuation in prices when you look at Amazon versus say something you find, I guess, with Apple. But the question is then, who waved the flag to the Department of Justice that said, hang on a second, this isn't fair? SIMON: Well, it was clear for anyone who was buying books a couple of years ago that you saw that the prices drastically went up. So that prompted an investigation by the DOJ. They started look into this immediately when the iPad went on sale, again, a couple of years ago.
And so, you know, for the consumers who were, you know, used to paying $10 for an e-book, all of a sudden, you know, they were paying maybe $15 for an e-book. And, remember, these books generate enormous profits for the publishers. There's no printing involved. You know, you don't have to put the hardcover on top. So the profit margins are much greater for e-books than for regular books.
BALDWIN: Yes, I mean, you've pointed out, and I know right now if you want to buy a bestseller, an e-book bestseller, people were willing to pay $15 up to $20. With the news today with the Department of Justice for the e-book readers out there, might this mean that the prices go down or will they stay right where they are?
SIMON: Well, as a result of this settlement with some of these publishers, they agreed to stop this price fixing scheme, if you will. That's the word that obviously the attorneys from the DOJ would use, "scheme." So in the short term, it's going to mean a reduction, I think, for consumers who go on to Amazon and purchase books. Amazon is going to be free to set the prices the way they want to. What Apple decides to do from here on out, that's a mystery. We don't know yet.
BALDWIN: And is this something that affects Apple? Is this, you know, simply based domestically in the United States? Does this affect Apple in Europe?
SIMON: We know that the folks in Europe, the investigators there, are also looking into the same type of allegations involving international publishers. We know that there's some discussions underway with those publishers and the European government to perhaps reach a settlement.
But, again, it raises a larger question, what's going to be the future of e-books, what are the prices going to be? You know, for Apple, this is all about wanting to sell more iPads. That's where they make their money. And so they were generous with the publishers in letting them set their own prices. And how this will affect consumers in the future, we just don't know yet.
BALDWIN: OK. Those are good questions. We don't have the answers yet, Dan Simon. We appreciate you there in Cupertino, California.
Meantime, major developments in the Trayvon Martin case today. George Zimmerman is no longer in contact with his attorneys and now they're talking publicly about his mental state. That story's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Well, here's a question a lot of people have been asking, where's George Zimmerman? The family of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teen he shot, have faith that authorities can find him, even if his own legal team cannot. Martin's parents just wrapped this appearance with Al Sharpton's National Action Network just a minute ago. The group has been very, very vocal in calling for the arrest and prosecution of George Zimmerman. Martin's mother seems confident Zimmerman will have to answer for her son's death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: For the last 44 days, it has been a nightmare. And this is coming from a mother's perspective. I have been up and down as if I was on a roller coaster. But I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that justice will be served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: You know it seems that very few, if any, know where George Zimmerman is right now. Not even his attorneys, who say they aren't representing him anymore after losing contact. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG SONNER, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: We've lost contact with him. Up to this point we've had contact every day. He's gone on his own. I don't -- I'm not sure what he's doing or who he's talking to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Trayvon Martin's parents, they're somewhat concerned that George Zimmerman is a flight risk. Here's what their own attorney told me when I guest hosted CNN's "OutFront" just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN'S FAMILY: They don't know where the killer of Trayvon Martin is at. He is unaccounted for and they are really concerned about that because they do worry about him being a flight risk. They worry about if he's ever going to be brought to justice for killing their son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So I want to talk about all the legal angles, and there are a lot, I know, Sunny Hostin, in this particular case.
First, have you ever, in all your years, have you ever seen such a public falling out between a client -- or I guess we should say former client now -- and his or her attorneys?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I can say that I have never seen anything like that before, Brooke. And I'm aging myself, but I've been doing this for quite some time, almost 20 years. And, you know, the bottom line is, attorneys withdraw from cases every day in our country. Attorneys are fired by their clients every day in our country. But typically, when you withdraw as an attorney, you just withdraw. You may cite the reason, like, I am not communicating with my client, but you then don't go on to hold a press conference and discuss with the nation the reasons behind your withdrawal, including your concern for your client's emotional and physical state. It's just simply not done, which is why when I was on air yesterday during that press conference with Wolf Blitzer, I was flabbergasted. I was just shocked.
BALDWIN: Right. I mean it calls into questions obviously ethics. Was it responsible, ethical for these attorneys to hold this news conference, you know, mid afternoon with this whole rift, essentially airing, you know, their grievance, their issues with this particular client? Are there attorney-client privilege issues at play here?
HOSTIN: Well, I will tell you, I think that this is going to become the case study in law school ethics courses around the country because this is a difficult question. I mean, bottom line is, when you are representing a client, regardless of whether or not you have a retainer agreement, if there is that attorney-client relationship, which I really believe there was in this case, a privilege attaches. And it's sort of a bedrock principle in our law that when you're an attorney and someone confides in you, that's secret. That is privileged. And you cannot discuss and disclose those conversations and the things that you learn. Not only the conversations, but the things that you learn.
And what was fascinating to me is that, you know, only George Zimmerman can waive that privilege. And so for these attorneys to come out and give us not only their reason for withdrawal, Brooke, but also I think some of the -- some glimpses into the discussions that they had with George Zimmerman over the phone could expose them to some ethical violations, could expose them to an investigation by the bar.
BALDWIN: Well, here's part of the news conference that definitely made me and I know some colleagues around me, we sort of sat up when we heard one of these attorneys said that they had never, ever, ever met with their client. They had never seen George Zimmerman face-to-face. I realize this is a high profile case, I realize he's laying low, I realize we don't even know where he is. How unusual is that, though?
HOSTIN: You know, I think it's unusual. It's not rare. That didn't bother me that much because, again, you know, they've indicated that he fears for his safety. We don't -- they don't know where he is, or we don't know where he is, and it's possible that he was far away from him for his own safety.
And so, you know, yes, ideally you want to sit and look into the eyes of your client. You want to be there in person. But in today's day and age, you can Skype with -- with a client. You can talk to a client over the phone. You can send text messages and e-mails. So that didn't bother me as much as all the other details that were divulged during that press conference.
BALDWIN: OK. That's interesting, that didn't both you.
I know that Attorney General Eric Holder, he did speak with Al Sharpton's National Action Network before holding this press conference with Trayvon Martin's parents. And here's a little bit of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I know that many of you are greatly and rightly concerned about the recent shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. A young man whose future has been lost to the ages. If we find evidence of a potential federal criminal civil rights crime, we will take appropriate action. And at every step, the facts and the law will guide us forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So since we know that the Department of Justice is investigating, thus, you know, making it a federal investigation, do you believe that authorities, at perhaps federal, perhaps state, whatever level, somebody know where he is?
HOSTIN: You would think so. I mean typically when there is an investigation, sometimes you have investigators tailing a subject, a target of an investigation, or at least they know where that target is. But, you know, this is very much, in my view, Brooke, a local law enforcement investigation. While there is a federal investigation running parallel to the local investigation, that's a civil rights violation case. Really the action is really locally. And so I think the folks that need to know where George Zimmerman is are the local authorities.
BALDWIN: You know, I was talking to Paul Callen (ph), another attorney, saying, you know, really, there is no clock ticking on this case until there is an arrest. But now sort of the special prosecutor in making news saying there will be some sort of news within 72 hours. So basically by Friday. So the clock is ticking now in some sort of development. Do you think that given what happened with Zimmerman's attorneys yesterday, do you think that, I don't know, like lit a bit of a fire under her?
HOSTIN: You know, I do. And I've been thinking about this quite a lot and I sort of harken back to my days as a prosecutor and I remember being told by, you know, agents or detectives that the target of my investigation was on the move. Well, that spooks prosecutors because the last thing you want is for an arrest warrant to be in your desk, you know, waiting for someone to be found. You just don't want that in any case, especially in a high-profile case.
And so I suspect that after the press conference that we all saw, I think, yesterday, that would push someone's hand. That would force a prosecutor's hand because, again, you don't want to be in the position of filing charges against someone and then not being able to find them and arrest them and start the clock ticking.
BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you.
I do want to let you know, we are now hearing -- Sunny, actually, stand by. I'm just told we're getting this news from "Washington Post."
HOSTIN: OK.
BALDWIN: "Washington Post" now is reporting that George Zimmerman is going to be arrested and is going to be charged. We do not have this on CNN yet. Again, this is attribution to "Washington Post." We're obviously working our sources. When we multiple teams there on the ground in Florida. And when we can share more information with you, of course we will.
But, Sunny, there you go, "Washington Post" reporting that this -- charges and arrest are imminent. Surprise? No surprise?
HOSTIN: I'm not surprised. Again, after the press conference by Zimmerman's former attorneys, the fact that Angela Corey, the special prosecutor's office, then within I think about two and a half hours issued their own statement indicating that they would be providing us with more information about the Trayvon Martin investigation, told me that perhaps her hand was forced and that charges would be imminent.
BALDWIN: One more question for you. I know that because this isn't going to grand jury, that takes capital murder out of it, I know at least in the state of Florida. What are -- on the spectrum here of charges, where could this fall? Give me some possibilities.
HOSTIN: You know, my perspective is that of a former prosecutor. And my sense always is, and was as a prosecutor, is that you sort of charge these cases from the bottom up. And that means you want to be able to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt. So you look at the least charge that you can file in a case and you determine whether or not you can prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.
BALDWIN: Which is what in this case?
HOSTIN: When I look at the homicide statues in Florida, I think it's manslaughter. I think that that is a case that's a non-intentional killing. And when you look at the facts of this case, that would be the charge if I were looking at it that would be the safest charge. You don't want to overcharge in a case like this because you're charging in the face of the "Stand Your Ground" law, in the face of a possible "Stand Your Ground" defense. And so manslaughter, in my view, would be the safest way to go if you're charging a case and you know that you need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
BALDWIN: So then, procedurally, what happens? If, you know, based upon "Washington Post" reporting, let's say they bring manslaughter charges. What's the next step? Go find George Zimmerman wherever he is and slap him in handcuffs and take him to jail?
HOSTIN: Well, you know, it's interesting because when you're working as a prosecutor with a set of defense attorneys that you know, you make arrangements as a courtesy to have a high-profile person, a client like this, come in and, yes, be -- turn themselves in to be arrested and processed and charged and then go before, of course, a judge for a bail hearing, a bond hearing, to determine what the conditions of release would be, if any.
In a case now like this where he isn't represented, I'm not sure. I mean is this the case where an arrest warrant is issued? That charges are filed. A judge approves that there's probable cause to charge. That information is filed and then an arrest warrant is issued and then someone has to find George Zimmerman. So perhaps that is what's going to happen rather than George Zimmerman, if he is charged, just turning himself in.
BALDWIN: Well, we're also getting news here that now we've been talking a lot about Angela Corey. We know this is being investigated DOJ, on the federal level. We also know she was appointed by the governor of Florida, Rick Scott. So Angela Corey will now be holding a news conference, I'm told, within the next four hours. She had set the deadline, 72 hours, that being Friday. So now we know in just about four hours, obviously, huge news could come out of that. So we will take that live her at CNN.
Sunny Hostin, as always, I appreciate your perspective and your expertise. We'll continue this conversation here as soon as we get more information incrementally here on CNN.
HOSTIN: Thanks, Brooke.
MALVEAUX: Meantime, switching gears and talking politics. Welcome to day one of the general election. With Rick Santorum out of the race for the White House, Mitt Romney is facing his next big challenge, President Obama. We're going to take a look at the political landscape with Mr. Wolf Blitzer after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, real quickly, if you're just joining us. We do have some news. We are attributing this to the "Washington Post." The "Washington Post" newspaper is reporting that George Zimmerman will be arrested and will be charged.
Of course, CNN is working to confirm that. You know, George Zimmerman, he is the man who was in Sanford, Florida. He shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin more than a month ago now. So that's the information coming out of "The Washington Post."
Obviously, CNN is working to confirm that. We are working all of our sources and when we can share more information with you, we will. Also another note with regard to this case, we have learned that Angela Corey, the prosecutor here in this case.
She has now announced that she will be holding a special news conference in four hours from now so right around 7:30 Eastern Time in Jacksonville, Florida. So stay tuned for that. Huge news, huge news could happen.
Meantime, we progress to Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul fellows. The primary season is done. And barring something shocking this guy, here he is, Willard Mitt Romney is your Republican nominee for president.
This is Mitt Romney a short time ago campaigning in Hartford, Connecticut less than 24 hours since the withdrawal of Rick Santorum. And Wolf Blitzer is joining me now from Washington. Wolf, this is right? It is Romney now versus Obama, essentially day one of the general election.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Yes, you're absolutely right. The general election campaign has begun seven months of this is about to begin. It will get intense. It will get bitter. It will be ugly.
Both sides have their respective points of view, but it's now Romney versus Obama. It's a done deal. Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul, they're technically still in the race for the Republican presidential nomination.
But they are so far behind in the all-important delegate count. They're not going to be able to catch up and with Santorum now out, it's Romney. So yes, the general election campaign has formally begun.
BALDWIN: And you know, this is the first thing that we're seeing, this dog fight for the women's vote. I want to point out this poll. This is the ABC News/"Washington Post" poll, which shows Romney trailing the president.
Look at these numbers by an astonishing 19 points among women, certainly no coincidence. Mitt Romney is saying just within the past hour that the administration's policies amount to a war on women. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can I borrow that, Karen? One of you has one of these. I don't know if you saw these, but these are just some statistics, which show just how severe the war on women has been by virtue of the president's failed policies.
The number of jobs, this is an amazing statistic. The percentage of jobs lost by women in the president's three years, three and a half years, 92.3 percent of all the jobs lost during the Obama years having lost by women, 92.3 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Now, before we move on, I do want to say, that comment, that 92.3 percent. That statistic is open to challenge. We're going to hit on that later, mark my words. But the point being here, Wolf, is that Mitt Romney, he knows he has a lot to do with regard to winning over women and he's not wasting time.
BLITZER: Yes, it's an enormous challenge he has getting the women vote out there. Because women vote in higher percentages than men and a lot of them right now are angry at the Republicans because they fear that the Republicans are going to take away some of their rights, not only the right to have an abortion if they want an abortion, but to contraception, to birth control pills.
And some of the language being used by some of the Republicans over these past several months has clearly alienated a whole lot of women out there. So Romney is going to have his work cut out for him. You notice he was standing at that event with only women behind him.
Ann Romney is going to be out there speaking assertively, aggressively to try to generate support. He does better in this ABC News/"Washington Post" poll among men, Mitt Romney. But among women he's got a deep, deep problem.
If you go to states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, some of these battleground states, it's going to be an enormous challenge. Now that the general election campaign has started, will he pivot?
Mitt Romney away from catering to the right wing of the Republican Party and go back towards the center, towards the more moderate and presumably try to generate some support among independent and moderate women out there as well.
It's going to be a huge challenge for Romney. Having said all that, Brooke, you know I've said this before. There are seven months to go. A lot can happen.
BALDWIN: That's an eternity.
BLITZER: Economy is still number one, jobs, jobs, jobs. So we'll see what can happen over the next seven months. It's going to be a fiercely fought battle and it's going to be very, very close when all the dust settles.
BALDWIN: It's interesting when you look back to 2008, we talk about the messages, where is the messaging coming from? You saw campaigns really leveraging YouTube and since then, we've had Facebook and Twitter has exploded.
In fact, check out this tweet Wolf Blitzer. It's from Obama Campaign Consultant, David Axelrod. Here's his tweet. With a 5 to 1 spinning edge, Mitt grinds down Santo and his own public standing. Money can't buy love, but it can buy GOP nominations.
So now, flash forward 2012, campaign 2012. Obama v Romney, what are the new rules of the roads in terms of messaging and who's writing the rules?
BLITZER: Well, the social media explosion is going to be very, very powerful. But when all is said and done, the money is going to be very important as well. The Republicans are raising a ton of money with their so-called "Super PACs."
They can raise unlimited sums of money and they can go out there and really buy a lot of advertising in the battleground states that will go after the president of the United States. The negative attack ads will be intense.
Obama is raising a lot of money himself. Yesterday, a bunch of fundraisers down in Hollywood, Florida, and Palm Beach around his speech on the so-called "Buffet Rule," the Warren Buffett tax rule that he's proposing to try to get higher tax rates for some of the wealthiest Americans out there.
But there will be hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of money spent on attack ads in those battleground states. I want to be an owner of one of those TV stations in Cleveland or Cincinnati or in Florida because they're going to be getting rich as a result of these two campaigns and their so-called "Super PACs" spending so much money over the coming months.
BALDWIN: Wolf, thank you. Let me just move quickly to this. We have been following obviously the story out of Tampa, Florida. Breaking news now, a senior law enforcement source tells CNN that George Zimmerman, quote, "will be charged if he hasn't been already."
That's his quote. Those charges obviously related to the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, but we do not know yet what the actual charge or possibly charges are. Again, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey has called a news conference in Jacksonville, Florida.
That's supposed to happen in just about four hours from now. I want to bring in Sunny Hostin. Sunny, as we getting this news, will be charged if he hasn't been charged already.
To your point, we don't know what the charge is, but based upon your experience, you don't want to overcharge in this particular case, right?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think that's right. I mean, you know, I suspect that first degree murder is off the table. The facts don't really align with that. Second degree murder would be a possibility, but I think that's a stretch.
That could lead some to think that's an overcharging of this case especially in light of the facts as we know them, Brooke, and especially in light of, again, the stand your ground law.
So when I look at the statute in that way, the next level in the homicide statue would be manslaughter. When you look again at the facts of this case, manslaughter, a non-intentional killing, it strikes me as the more balanced charge to bring in this case, if a charge is brought.
BALDWIN: OK, Sunny, do me a favor. Standby. I do want to bring in Martin Savidge who has been down in Tampa, Florida, continuing to cover this story.
Martin, what do we know? What are possible scenarios? As we wait to hear the news conference in Jacksonville with Angela Corey, the prosecutor in this case. What are the possible scenarios we could see?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the things we won't see and this is just what, Sunny, pointed out. You're not going to see first degree murder. You need a grand jury in the state of Florida to bring that.
We know that she has already said we're not going to use a grand jury in this particular case. So that's out. Manslaughter has been talked about because Trayvon Martin was a juvenile, 17 years of age.
We are told that the possible maximum could be up to 30 years, so that's a significant term, if he is found guilty. There's also been talk of perhaps charge of aggravated battery using a gun. Keep in mind, Florida is what they call a 10, 20 life state.
That means if you use a gun, you get automatically get 10 years. If you fire a gun whether you shoot somebody or not, you get up to 20 and if you do shoot somebody, you get up to life.
So those are possibilities that have all been discussed here. There are a variety of other potentials that are out there, but that's what's been most commonly spoken of down here.
BALDWIN: And Sunny, back to you. I can't help, but wonder just moving ahead if and when he will be charged and ultimately when they do have to seat a jury, I can't help, but think of the Casey Anthony trial where they had to bus jurors in from another town.
I mean, it seems like this whole story is just so -- you know, it's absolutely permeated the community of Sanford. How does that even -- what would happen?
HOSTIN: Yes, I mean, not only the community of Sanford, all of the nation. This is an international story I think at this point. I mean, we have a special prosecutor from the fourth judicial circuit, if I'm correct.
So she's from the Jacksonville area, not even from this area brought in to look at this case. So, you know, I think certainly you can find six jurors, because in Florida if it's not a capital case, we're talking about a jury of six of George Zimmerman's peers.
You can find fair and impartial jurors. I don't think you're going to fine anyone that hasn't heard about this case. And so the question then will be where do you get the jury pool from? Do you bring them in?
And that's something that judges are used to deal with. We saw that in the Casey Anthony case, but I think you're right, Brooke. That's going to be an issue here. This is probably one of the most high profile cases I've seen when there haven't even been any charges yet.
BALDWIN: Do you think we will see, Sunny the shot, you know, of George Zimmerman being led away in handcuffs? Do you think -- I don't know if it would be, what, state police that would allow that even?
HOSTIN: Yes, the perp walk that we all hear about, you know, again, this is a high-profile case. We know that there have been at least reportedly threats against George Zimmerman's life. This is not the kind of case that I think we should see a perp walk.
I think for the safety of everyone involved in a highly charged case so, no. I don't think that we're going to see that. The only way we would see that is if George Zimmerman can't be found, if he isn't cooperating with law enforcement authorities. We know as of Sunday he was. People knew where he was. So hopefully if he is charged an arrest can be done in a more private fashion.
BALDWIN: OK, Sunny, thank you very much. Just getting news in my ear. Let me just pass this along, if you are just now joining us, this is all according to a senior law enforcement source telling CNN that George Zimmerman will be charged if he hasn't been charged already.
Obviously, we're picking up the phone making lots of phone calls. CNN has now talked to the prosecutor in this case, Angela Corey and she has told us no charges have been filed yet.
Got to get a break in. Breaking news today out of this case, out of Sanford, Florida. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, want to get breaking news here at CNN. We're following the story out of Sanford, Florida. We have now learned according to a senior law enforcement source that George Zimmerman who shot and killed Trayvon Martin just about a little over a month ago, he will be charged if he hasn't been charged yet.
The prosecutor in this case, was appointed by the governor of Florida. Her name is Angela Corey and she has now told CNN, no charges have been filed yet. We have learned, though, as she set a deadline a 72- hour deadline that she would make some sort of news by the end of the week.
We have now learned that she will be holding a special news conference at 6:00 Eastern Time in Jacksonville, Florida. As we wait for that, I want to bring in Phyllis Kotey on the phone, former assistant to the Florida State Attorney.
Phyllis, let me begin with we heard news from Angela Corey and her office earlier in the week so no to a grand jury. Now we heard and we saw that bizarre news conference just yesterday on behalf of those two attorneys for George Zimmerman.
Saying we haven't heard from our client and so we're withdrawing our representation. How do you think that affected this case on the prosecutorial side?
PHYLLIS KOTEY, FORMER ASSISTANT FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY (via telephone): I don't see how it would have any effect with the prosecutor in terms of charging decision. Because certainly she shouldn't be concerned with whether that defendant has maintained contact with his attorney when there are no charges pending at this time. So I don't think it would any effect.
BALDWIN: So you don't think that expedited any sort of news conference, you think that she was potentially plan on doing this today and that was just a coinkidink yesterday?
KOTEY: She definitely seems to have been going on her time schedule. She really seems to be taking her time with considering all the evidence, considering the issues. Things are just coming to a head right now at the same time.
BALDWIN: Help us get inside the mind of a prosecutor's head. I mean, a tremendously high profile case. What has she been weighing?
KOTEY: Well, you really just want to wave the evidence even though you have all these very public things going on. It really shouldn't be a political decision. I think one of the things that you strive to do as a prosecutor is make sure any consideration of the evidence is a consideration of just that.
You know, not the public sentiment, not what people want you to do, but what the evidence suggests should be done. So I think that's exactly what she's trying to do in this situation.
BALDWIN: We know because this won't be going to the grand jury. The capital murder, murder one will be thrown out in this case. How does she proceed? What are the possible charges?
I was just asking one of our, you know, our legal experts on this or from federal attorney. But I want to ask you, on the spectrum of charges, what could we be hearing?
KOTEY: Well, I mean, you know there are several right up front that you can consider in terms of the seriousness. That would be, of course, a second degree murder case and then a manslaughter case, which would probably be the most serious ones you could deal with given the facts that we have.
Certainly when you look at manslaughter in the case of that nature, you're talking about an issue of culpable negligence. But there was no intent to cause death or no intent to kill. But an intent then to commit either an unlawful or inexcusable act and those would be the things that you'll be looking at as a prosecutor.
And of course, you know, for a second degree murder, you're certainly looking at the issue of whether it was done with any sort of provocation or without provocation or those kinds of issue as they relate to someone acting.
Not necessarily with an intent to kill, but certainly reckless disregard for the safety of another human being.
BALDWIN: How in this case would a prosecutor prove non-intentional killing, manslaughter?
KOTEY: Well, with manslaughter, one of the things you would look at would be the issue of how Zimmerman acted, whether there was anything unlawful about his actions in terms of continuing to pursue continuing to go after an individual, any place where he had a right to be.
Perhaps whether a gun was pulled on an individual that was in a lawful place where he had a right to be and then the violation of the law that occurred as a result of those things. Certainly not indicating an intent to kill, but being illegal acts that then will give rise to support for that culpable negligence. Charge of manslaughter or manslaughter being caused because of the way the individual acted.
BALDWIN: And then also when we're talking even just specifically about this news conference coming up at 6:00 Eastern Time in Jacksonville, Florida where we will be hearing from Angela Corey.
Potentially breaking the news that George Zimmerman will be charged and arrested, in terms of presentation, how does she present herself? Who might be there by her side and then how do they handle George Zimmerman himself?
KOTEY: Well, you know, actually George Zimmerman himself, if charges are filed then an arrest warrant or some sort of warrant from the court would be issued for him to appear.
I mean, at this point, he's under no sort of supervision from the court or dictates from the court to be available. I would anticipate that law enforcement officers would be around because they had been consulted during the investigation, but that won't necessarily be true either.
You simply will have that prosecutor there perhaps giving a review of the information that they consider in terms of the case and presenting that information to the public with their recommendation or their actual charges at this time.
BALDWIN: Phyllis, thank you for helping us understand what perhaps Angela Corey, the prosecutor in this case may be thinking and going through and maybe up against.
I want to bring in Sunny Hostin because I'm curious, Sunny on the flip side. You're agreeing with Phyllis in the sense that perhaps the charge could be manslaughter in this case.
We don't know. Let me just say that. We don't know. As far as the defense, in a state with the stand your ground law, how do you defend George Zimmerman here?
HOSTIN: You know, certainly, that would be the defense. We've heard that from his former attorneys that he acted in self defense, that he was standing his ground, that Trayvon Martin attacked him.
I'm sure this is something that the prosecutor, the special prosecutor had to review in making the determination. I think what this case is going to boil down to quite frankly is who started the confrontation?
Who was the initial aggressor, initial -- you know, who initially provoked the confrontation because in the stand your ground law, there's an exception for that. If you initially provoke a confrontation, you can't rely on that defense.
So I really think this is going to be so fact specific that this is a case that a jury would need to look at because the facts are so very important and the facts as they apply to this stand your ground law.
Let's face it, this case, if there are charges will really shine a light in the stand your ground law that's been somewhat controversial not only in Florida, but in the 20 some states that has the law.
BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you again. My thanks to Phyllis Kotey.
Finally one quick question, Martin Savidge if I still have him standing by. We do have a question for you, Martin. If and when these charges come down, we've seen all this hate rhetoric, you know, percolating online and in person.
Are the Sanford police, are they prepared to handle any kind of violence in the community either way?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I had a conversation with the mayor just a short time ago. He says, yes, they are prepared. They've been preparing and planning for whatever eventually for weeks now.
They' been meeting almost every day in some fashion with the EOC, that's the Emergency Operation Center coordinating with the county authority also. Communicating with other nearby communities whether they might need police backup or backup from other counties, fire, whatever.
They are just planning for all eventual possibilities, hoping for the best outcome. But of course, as the mayor puts it, you have to be prepared for the worst and they've been doing that.
They're on standby now and they say as a result of hearing about the events of today, they are also counting down like the media to this news conference.
BALDWIN: Yes, 6:00 Eastern Time so we hear in Jacksonville, Florida. Martin, thank you very much.
Before we get a break, I want to play some sound for you. You're going to hear from Trayvon Martin's parents. They were speaking at Al Sharpton's National Action Network news conference minutes ago. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRACY MARTIN, FATHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: As a parent that lost a child is very tough to maintain your sanity, but I told myself the second day that Trayvon was dead that I find it within myself to do right by him. To make sure that his name wouldn't be -- his death wouldn't be in vain.
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: For the last 44 days, it has been a nightmare and this is coming from a mother's perspective. I have been up and down as if I was on a roller coaster. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that justice will be served.
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back. Breaking news here on CNN, just about top of the hour and if you're just now joining us. Big news today, George Zimmerman will be charged in connection with the Trayvon Martin shooting.
This is according to a senior law enforcement source familiar with the investigation. What this individual told CNN just in the last few moments. The special prosecutor in this case, her name is Angela Corey, she says those charges have not been filed yet.
But CNN has confirmed that she will be making an announcement in Jacksonville, Florida at 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Now Trayvon Martin's parents, they appeared moments ago, about an hour ago here with Reverend Al Sharpton.
They are obviously waiting. They want to see what happens next today before making any further comment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVEREND AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: We cannot confirm those reports.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your response when you hear it?
SHARPTON: When we hear it, we will respond. We will be in the building. We will have another briefing around 5:15, 5:30, if those reports are at that point confirmed and the parents and all of us will respond at that time. We're not reading e-mail while we're talking. We're polite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: We have Martin Savidge who is standing by for us on the ground there in Sanford, Florida where as you know, the shooting happened. And we also have legal analyst, Sunny Hostin.
First, Martin Savidge to you. We're just about at the top of the hour. People are just now tuning in. Tell me what we have learned really in last 5 or 10 minutes here.
OK, we don't have Martin. Sunny Hostin, I'll go to you and I'll tell you what we know. We know that this news conference is going to happen at 6:00 and presumably that could be when this special prosecutor brings charges upon George Zimmerman.
Again, what potentially scenario wise, would charges could be brought against him?
You know, of course, second degree murder -- first degree murder is off the table here. Second degree murder is possible. I think that would be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I think that could be seen as overcharging this case. Again, I think the safest way to go would be manslaughter. When I look at the facts as we know them, now, of course, Angela Corey at this point having conducted what I assume to be a thorough investigation has more facts than what we know.
So if she is to charge something more, there must be something more that I don't know about looking at the evidence, sort of in the public domain or out of the facts. I think manslaughter would be the appropriate charge here, Brooke.
BALDWIN: How does she prove manslaughter in this case?
HOSTIN: You know, I had the statute in front of me and I don't think it's that difficult to prove, but the stand your ground defense. I mean, she would have to prove that Trayvon Martin is dead, we know that.
Then she would have to prove that George Zimmerman either intentionally procured and act causing the death of Trayvon Martin and that sort of legal leads. But the more simply way of looking at it is they would have to prove that the death of Trayvon Martin was caused by the culpable negligence of George Zimmerman, that he acted negligently in shooting Trayvon Martin.
I think in a court of law that is a case that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But remember, we are in a stand your ground state and George Zimmerman's former attorneys have indicated that he acted in self-defense. That he was not the initial aggressor, that rather Trayvon Martin attacked him. And so that is something I think that we will see played out here.
BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you.
