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Zimmerman Apologizes to Trayvon Martin's Parents; Mel Gibson's Rant
Aired April 21, 2012 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Don Lemon. Wait until you see what we're working on for you tonight. CNN After Dark, where most shows dare not go.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice-over): Forgiveness.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ADMITTED KILLER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: I am sorry. For the loss of your son.
LEMON: War crimes.
LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY: War is ugly and it's violent.
LEMON: Service secrets.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prostitutes are often used by foreign intelligence services.
LEMON: Loud mouths.
TED NUGENT, ACTIVIST: I will either be dead or in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who the (bleep) wants to eat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're not down with it, get the (bleep) off my channel.
LEMON: Naked news.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was the most effective way to get through security.
LEMON: Artists protests? What the -- are we really shocked by in of this?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: The stories you're talking about in just a moment. But first, the news you need to know right now.
We're watching and waiting for the moment that George Zimmerman walks out of jail. Now his attorney says it could take until the middle of the week to come up with $15,000, 10 percent of the bond the judge set on Friday. Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder for shooting Trayvon Martin.
New York police are tearing apart the former basement workshop of Orenthal Miller. But his lawyer insists the carpenter did nothing to do - had nothing to do with the disappearance of 6-year-old Etan Patz back in 1979. Miller hasn't been charged with any crime in Patz' disappearance, change the way police handle missing children report.
Republican senator, Chuck Grassley, wants to know whether White House staff are involved in the Secret Service prostitution scandal. On Friday, press secretary Jay Carney said he believes only Secret Service and U.S. military personnel are involved. Six Secret Service members had left their jobs since the scandal broke. We'll keep an eye on those stories for you.
Now, to the stories you're talking about. There are a lot of thing happened this week where people claimed shock and awe. But, is it real or fake? Are we really surprised that a group above men who rarely spend time with their wives or girlfriends visited a country where prostitution is legal and hook up with hookers? Is it really stunning that war pushed otherwise honorable men and women to do crucial things like take pictures of dead people, with dead people?
And why be indignant when blowhards like Ted Nugent and Mel Gibson blather? Why? We'll go over all of that for you shortly here on this program. But perhaps, the one moment we all couldn't take our eyes off of, a truly unusual move happened just yesterday in a Florida courtroom.
George Zimmerman finally spoke directly to Trayvon Martin's parents.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S LAWYER: My client wants to make a statement to the court, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be sworn in, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you swear that the testimony you present will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please have a seat. Once your situated, please state your full name for the record. Spell your last name.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: George Michael Zimmerman. Z-i-m-m-e-r-m-a-n.
O'MARA: I do think an inquiry is probably appropriate by the court. (INAUDIBLE). Anything he says -- I want to make sure it's clear.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: George Michael Zimmerman.
O'MARA: You advised me that you want to make a statement, correct? Go ahead.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I'm sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how hold he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
O'MARA: Nothing further, your honor.
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: And I'm sorry. Sir, you have not really addressing that to the court. You're doing it here to the victim's family, is that correct?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: I understand but, I thought you were going the address your honor, judge Lester. That's really addressed to the family and to where the media happens to be. Correct. Mr. Zimmerman?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. And tell me, after you committed the crime and spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you had done or their loss?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: You never sated that, did you?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember what I said. I believe I did say that.
DE LA RIONDA: You told that to the police?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: In one of the statements I said that I felt sorry for the family.
DE LA RIONDA: You did.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: So, that would be recorded because all these conversations were recorded, right?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. And you're sure you said that?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. And so -- which officer did you tell that to? I think you gave five statements total.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry. All the names blend together.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. And do you remember if it was male or female?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: There were both males and females.
DE LA RIONDA: At the time you made the statement? Are you were sorry?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: And let me make sure the record is clear. You stated exactly what to those detectives?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember exactly what verbatim.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. But, you are saying you expressed that concern for the loss of Mr. Martin or that you had shot Mr. Martin, that you actually felt sorry for him?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I felt sorry that they lost their child, yes.
DE LA RIONDA: And so, you told detectives you wanted them to convey that to the parents?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I didn't know if they were defectives or not.
DE LA RIONDA: Officers. I apologize.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I didn't know if they would convey it or not. I made the statement.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. And then you said that you called them up or you left a message for them to tell them that?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait 50-something days to tell the parents?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I don't understand the question, sir.
DE LA RIONDA: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I was told not the communicate with them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: A loft people here to talk about Zimmerman and other stories. I'll introduce them all to you in just a moment.
But first, to the people I have been discussing the story with over the past month or so, Dean Obeidallah, Jamal Anderson and Holly Hughes.
First to Holly. Holly, Zimmerman is basically asking Trayvon Martin's parents to forgive him. That is a lot to ask. Could you forgive him?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but he didn't murder my child.
LEMON: As simple as that?
HUGHES: It I s as simple as that. Because we all like to believe we have that capability. I mean, come on, Don. Everyone of us wants to say, I would be able to forgive. And sitting here today, as I know myself, I think I would be able to forgive him. But I'm not in their shoes, Don. He didn't kill my child.
LEMON: That is a lot to ask.
JAMAL ANDERSON, FORMER RUNNING BACK, ATLANTA FALCONS: This is a very, very difficult -- this has been a tragic case from the beginning, Don. The thing is, Trayvon's parents have been so dignified, so gracious in everything that they have done.
LEMON: Would you forgive him?
ANDERSON: It's tough for me right now because to me, he pursue this young man, OK? He did not have a weapon.
LEMON: Yes or no.
ANDERSON: Right now, I don't know. I just don't think so right now.
LEMON: All right, Dean?
ANDERSON: It would be tough for me.
LEMON: Dean?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, POLITICAL COMEDIAN: If it was my son, no, I couldn't. But I want that apology wasn't for me or the family that was for the public - for the general public to get sympathy on his side. That's what is it all about.
LEMON: All right. Everyone, stand by. Thank you very much.
Up next, we're going talk about this. Why the pure tannic attitude about the oldest profession on earth. We are talking about prostitution.
Are we really stunned about men buying sex where it's legal? And who are we to judge our troops? Does a picture really tell a whole story?
And this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're not down with it, get the (bleep) off my channel.
(END VIDEO CLIP) The king of media under pressure to fill Piers Morgan's shoes and to stop the backlash that he has lost his itch. Has Howard Stern jumped the shark?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Colombian prostitutes and secret service agents are fodder for late night comedians this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN HOST: I feel somewhat responsible here. You see, the secret service was here last week to protect the first lady. And like anyone who gets close to my virility. They obviously got their manhood jacked up. It's called been man-jacked.
Now, I don't know if it's the same team that was here. But it wouldn't be the first time a visitor to this building had to seek professional relief after being here. Because, and this is true, according to the FBI's phone records, Eliot Spitzer called a prostitute in the car right after leaving my studio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. That was funny. But, not for the 23 agents and military people involved. Does this alleged incident, does it really surprise us?
So, I'm joined now by author Jeffrey Robinson. Former marine Scott Camille and criminal defense attorney Holly Hughes. Also joining us here in Atlanta is Jamaal Anderson as well.
So, my first question is to you Mr. Camille. Are we surprised by this? Should we be surprised by this?
SCOTT CAMIL, FORMER MARINE: I don't think there's any surprise at all.
LEMON: That simple. Why do you say that?
CAMIL: Well, from my experience in war, taking pictures with people that we killed to show we killed those people was common practice.
LEMON: OK. I'm talking about the secret service here. About the secret service, not about the Afghanistan pictures. But agents accused of buying sex this week. I'm wondering if you feel we should be surprised by this.
CAMIL: I don't have an opinion.
LEMON: Yes. OK.
CAMIL: I don't --
LEMON: Let's go on. Let's move on. Let's talk to Jeffrey Robinson.
Jeffrey, you write about these things. What do you think of it?
JEFFREY ROBINSON, AUTHOR, STANDING NEXT TO HISTORY: Yes, you should be surprised. You should be shocked because this is behavior that is unacceptable. Totally unacceptable by the secret service. These men are briefed to know better. They're overseas. They are representing the government. This should never ever have happened.
Now, I said on one interview, previously, boys will be boys. And I was criticized for excusing them with that. No, no, no. Boys will be boys is a definition. What they did is inexcusable. Totally inexcusable. And no less than matter to the secret service.
LEMON: Holly, go ahead.
HUGHES: OK. What I'm thinking here is, what we should be shocked about and ticked off about, quite frankly is the timing of what they did. All right fine, it's a legal thing, legal, not illegal. It is perfectly legal in Colombia to go out and hire a prostitute. Do what you're doing on your own time. But, when you jeopardize the safety of the president of the United States, his itinerary is sitting on the desk. What makes you think one of these women is not La Femme Nikita?
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHES: Come on. That's what we should be --
ROBINSON: No. No, no, no. Let's put this thing in perspective. First of all, there was absolutely no risk whatsoever to the president of the United States. These men were not part of PPD which is the Presidential Protective Division. They were not there. They were there in a supplementary support function.
They were not armed. They did not have the radio equipment. If they had blackberries, they were supposed to be in their pants and normally their pants is supposed to stay on. They did not know what was happening, some of them were uniformed officers and the uniformed officers, one of them was a dog patrol. At no point was the president in any jeopardy whatsoever.
ANDERSON: The president was in no danger. Number one. This was legal. I'm not justifying it. We expect the secret service to have exemplary service at all time. If they make the news, it's usually for a bad thing or if they're investigating something that threatens the president.
The secret service -- you're not supposed to get caught, by the way, you're the secret service, OK. I mean, let's be real. Secret service, how do you get busted in Colombia, my man?
HUGHES: OK. But, you know what he said, what did he say? If they had blackberries, they're supposed to be in their pants. Well, guess what, their pants were and their ankles. So, you know what, I still say it's a security risk, not to mention it's a national embarrassment.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: They're supposed to uphold a certain standard.
CAMILLE: I'm wondering why --
LEMON: Go ahead Jeffrey.
CAMIL: I'm wondering why it's an embarrassment.
LEMON: Scott, go ahead. Scott Camille, what did you say?
CAMIL: I'm wondering why the media spent so much time on sex when there's so many important issues today.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I think you're right. But sex is one of them. Especially if the people accused of having sex are the people supposed to be protecting the president of the United States.
HUGHES: And not only that, but they're not playing for paying for it. That's why this whole thing blew up, you all. OK, come on.
LEMON: But I think the interesting thing is, when we talk about the legalization of prostitution, right. This young lady went to a legitimate police officer rather than going to a pimp.
HUGHES: Right.
LEMON: And saying, this guy took my money and the pimp beating her up or that beating the guy up. So, where it was legal, she actually had the right to go to a police officer and protect herself.
HUGHES: Of course you she did. It's called theft of services, Don.
LEMON: All right.
HUGHES: Seriously.
LEMON: All right. We will move one and we'll get off sex, and think that will make Scott Camil very happy.
Up next, the outrage over troops posing with dead people. Is that shock real or sit fake?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA LOESCH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Don, where you at?
LEMON: No, no, no. I said -- listen to my question. I said people outside of politics and outside the media.
Last week, conservatives tried their talking points. I shut them down. This week, it's the liberals' turn. Their warning, they won't get to spin either. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK, war is hell. But when we see images of war, sometimes we judge before realizing what our soldiers are really up against.
This week, it was a photo of U.S. troops posing with body parts of Afghan insurgent bombers.
Jeffrey Robinson, Scott Camil, Holly Hughes, and Jamal Anderson are all back now.
And I want to say, first of, we're not condoning this by any means. But, we can't even begin to understand what it's like to be in a war zone. So, why are we so quick to judge.
First now, to Scott Camil. Scott, this is something that you want to talk about, a former marine. Why are we so quick to judge in we don't know what those men and women are up against there, sitting in our cozy living rooms, do we?
CAMIL: Well, no. We don't know what it's like being in combat unless you have been there. But I think the real question is, you're nitpicking when you are talking about things like people posing with bodies. The real question should be, why are we at war in the first place? Why are we killing so many people in the first place? The concern over posing with someone who is dead seems to me, the fact that that person is dead and that we're killing people is more important than what happens after they are dead.
LEMON: Well, you know. I think you're right about that. But the fact of the matter is, is that we had those pictures, 18 of them of men and women in battlefield posing with people who are dead. Most people don't see that activity every single day. And if that leads people to understand what is going on in war zone, or maybe why we're killing, that is a good next question. But maybe this is the impetus to have that happen.
ANDERSON: The difficulty for me about this issues, Don, is we were stretched too thin. How long have we been at war? What the extraordinary circumstances was which we have put our military in several different regions, OK?
LEMON: Right.
ANDERSON: I'm not justifying the pictures at all. But so tough when something like this happens when you have so many thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who served honorably, who served all over the country in difficult situation. And then you have this happen. You know, who knows what happened with those guys, days before?
LEMON: Scott has a good point. He says, why are we killing people?
HUGHES: Right. LEMON: When we are talking about - our subject is faux shock and awe.
HUGHES: OK.
LEMON: So, we'd be more surprised that we are in all these wars and we are by the fact that it's been on --
HUGHES: Scott hit the nail on the head because now, we have opened a dialogue. What are we talking about now? Shouldn't we be more upset that we're out there killing people?
ANDERSON: We're still there.
HUGHES: But it happens in all different professions. You know, you have heard of black humor. Surgeons playing rock music in the O.R. and operating on people. You know, when you see life and death every day in a combat zone, I'm not going sit here and say, how dare you? Because nobody sent me over there with a gun. Thank God somebody else is willing to do it.
So, no. Bu you know what it does, it calls attention to the fact that maybe we need the assess why we're there in the first place. But, maybe we need to get these folks help. Because they're in a place where they're trained to kill. It's kill or be killed.
ANDERSON: This is war.
HUGHES: This is war, hello, it doesn't get more basic than that. So, when they take a picture, it's like showing you, I'm doing what you trained me to do. Maybe we can help them when they come home now.
LEMON: Well, I want to bring Scott. And Scott, you know, most people may be surprised, you're saying, why are we in a war zone. They would say, you know what, you're former military. It seems like you would understand that more than most.
CAMIL: What I understand what it's like to be in a war zone and I understand the behavior in a war zone. And I would say first of all, that war is really an institution made up of criminal behavior. When we, as civilians, want to solve problems, we're in the allowed to murder people and burn their houses down. I don't see why war is an acceptable means of conflict resolution.
And furthermore, the majority people that die are innocent civilians.
LEMON: Jeffrey, under these particular circumstances, should we be judging our men and women in uniform so harshly about this?
ROBINSON: No, Scott made a good point. And he is very right about this. I served in the military. And war is controlled insanity. And sometimes it's very easy to lose control.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, guys. Don't go anywhere. We have a lot to talk about. Up next, why these two people coming up, have some explaining to do at President Obama. You'll see them after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: More of the stories you're talking about in a moment.
But first, the news you need to know right now.
Tonight, George Zimmerman is behind bars. But that could change soon. His attorney says it may take until the middle of the week to come up with $15,000, ten percent of the bond the judge set on Friday. Zimmerman is charged with second-agree murder for shooting Trayvon Martin.
New York police are tearing apart the former basement workshop of Orenthal Miller. His attorneys insist the carpenter had nothing to do with the disappearance of 6-year-old Etan Patz back in 1979, nor hasn't been charged with any crime. Patz' disappearance change the way police handled missing children reports.
The Colombian prostitution scandal has claimed more careers. Three more secret service employees have stepped down making it six to lose their jobs so far. All together, 23 secret service and military personnel had been caught up in the controversy.
So tonight, we're cutting through all the smack talking on the show no matter what political side you're on. Last week, we invited conservative, a conservative panel and nobody pulled any punches. Listen to this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LOESCH: It sickens me. Just like it sickens me when I hear some of the rhetoric being used to describe conservative women. I mean, you know, when someone calls you like I said see you next Tuesday, I agree with you, you're reporting it in the context of the story, you want people to know what is being said.
LEMON: Otherwise it's disgusting.
NOEL SHEPPARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, NEWSBUSTERS: By the way, Don. I have to say, I just got the acronym see you next Tuesday. That's go beyond --
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This week, it's the liberals' turn. Maria Cardona is a Democratic strategist and a CNN contributor and Eric Boehlert is a senior fellow at the Liberal washed off group media matter.
So, Maria to you first. You heard our conservative panel. Bill Maher, Ed Schultz and others have (INAUDIBLE) about conservative. Do liberals look the other way when that happens? MARIA CARDONA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No. I don't think so, Don. I mean, Ed Schultz was actually reprimanded and I think suspended for couple days when that happened. And I think that there were plenty of Democrats and Liberal, including myself, who talked about how and when Bill Maher did it. And frankly, when anybody uses that kind of language, it's beyond the pale that should not be the kind of language we use in politics. I have condemned it when it happens on both sides.
LEMON: So, you say that this a - this becomes sort of a political talking point on the right for the right to say, Democrats or Liberals don't speak out when their own do it?
CARDONA: I do think that. And it has become something that they have tried to use against the president and against the administration. But I think that they need to look what they're own people are doing. And we're probably leading up to this. But, you know, Ted Nugent this week said some awful, awful things about the president. And Mitt Romney said absolutely nothing in terms of what those comments were when in fact, Mitt Romney, his campaign, actually sought the approval and the endorsement of Ted Nugent.
LEMON: You're jumping ahead with the Ted Nugent conversation. Stand by. We're going the talk about it.
CARDONA: It was an obvious segue there.
LEMON: I want to play something from "the Daily show." Something they said about the presidential race this week. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST, THE DAILY SHOW: But last week, Rick Santorum conceded. Primary is over. General election on. All the fire power, the right was wasting on each other has now been retrained on their actual opponent. It's like the Democrats didn't realize they have gone from England to America where the traffic is now coming from the other direction. Democrats got so comfortable going there's nobody coming on the street. They don't realize the cars were (bleep) bam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Eric, you know, he's got a point. He's got a point. The secret service scandal, so disposing with body parts in Afghanistan, the GSA wasting taxpayer dollars. The right is pouncing on all of it as the reflection of the administration. I mean, it looks like the president and the Democrats were caught off guard by this, Eric.
ERIC BOEHLERT, SENIOR FELLOW, MEDIA MATTERS: Well, I mean. There's a - you know, four years in the White House, there's always going to be breaking news. There's always going to be news cycles. Do I think anyone in voting in November is going to remain - he did remember the GSA accounting scandal or things like that? I don't.
You know, it's clear the Romney campaign is clearly, you know, focusing on the Obama administration now and doing it in a rather dramatic way and really cozying up to right wing media as we talked about not testing in - not distinguishing in felt from Ted Nugent and things like that.
So, obviously, the general campaign is on. And it's funny that the Republicans are playing hard ball early. And they freak out whenever, you know, Obama dares campaign for the White House.
LEMON: All right. So, let's talk about the President Obama and the economy. Treasury secretary Timothy Geithner made the talk show rounds. And he said something we have heard a lot, a lot from this administration. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: The president inherited, again, as you know, the worst financial crisis since the great depression.
The worst crisis since the great depression when he came in office.
You know, this was a financial crisis caused by a shock larger than what caused the great depression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, Maria. He's been in office for more than three years, the president. How much longer are we going to hear that line? Can he really run again on how bad Bush was? Bush has been all but invisible lately.
CARDONA: Well, I think you have to really clarify what it is that the administration is saying. They have not said that George Bush, that the economy is George Bush's fault. Now, obviously, that's just a mantis.
What they're doing, Don, and I think is absolutely fair, is that they are laying the history of what happened. And I think that it is a very important point to remind Americans of the hole that this economy was in when President Obama took office. Because he did not start at a level play field. He did not start at zero.
LEMON: Yes.
CARDONA: And so, it is fair to remind Americans of that. And in fact, we have seen in polls, in some of the CNN polls that Americans do understand that this president had a huge challenge when he walking into the office. And in fact, the majority don't blame him for that and still blame Bush.
LEMON: Eric, listen. I have to move on. And I really just have a short time with this because we're running long here. But, you know, Maria brought up Ted Nugent.
Ted Nugent hasn't had a hit since 1977 which was - years a long time ago. He says some crazy stuff. I mean, should Mitt Romney really take responsibility for something Ted Nugent said? Just the same as, should President Obama take responsibility when a celebrity supporter of his says something out of line?
BOEHLERT: Well, that's a good point. And I don't think - again, I don't think they are going to vote in November based on these little games around. But, look. It was the Romney campaign that two weeks ago went bonkers over a comment that Hilary Rosen made on CNN, and for them to, you know, claiming she is an adviser, claiming the Obama administration that's a denouncer. For them to now take the Nugent comments, which were off the charts, and he has a history of hateful disgusting violent comment, and for them to basically say, OK, we don't deal with entertainers, it's a pretty big double standard.
LEMON: Maria. I know you wanted to jump on this. Go ahead, really quickly.
CARDONA: And I think we just have to be very clear that the Romney campaign sought Ted Nugent's approval and support and endorsement.
BOEHLERT: Celebrated it.
CARDONA: You didn't have Obama going around looking for the endorsement of Bill Maher and Ed Schultz.
LEMON: All right.
CARDONA: I think that is a big difference. And then you heard nothing from his campaign. Not a profiling courage.
LEMON: So, last week, it was the conservatives. Now the Libs, the lefties have all - they had their chance this week. We will have you back.
Eric, thank you. Maria, thank you. Have a good evening, all right?
CARDONA: Thank you, Don.
BOEHLERT: All right.
LEMON: After the break, we'll try to get to the bottom of why the TV show "the bachelor" is not very fond of black people. Yes, we are going there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We hope you've noticed our Saturday continues show is different. It's all about - we hope smart conversation and some crazy as well. And some Saturday night fun.
So, let's look at some of the things that popped up this week in entertainment. I have comedian Dean Obeidallah in New York. He is a comedian, again. I don't know how funny he is.
And then with me, is in NFL, a former NFLer, Jamal Anderson and our legal ego, Holly Hughes.
First, let's talk about this Mel Gibson rant, all right? Screenwriter Joe Eszterhas gave this to the rant. He says Gibson was yelling at him a few months back at Gibson's home in Costa Rica. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: I go to work. You're getting paid. I'm not (bleep). I am earning money for a filthy little (bleep) who takes advantage with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I say, (INAUDIBLE) they've been jabbing at each other in the media and we're, you know, we are only hearing Mel there. We want to be fair.
But, you know, there are the comments from Nugent and then there is Mel. And they're both are pretty much loud mouths. Should we be surprised by this?
ANDERSON: No. I mean, at this point, I mean, Mel has been - I mean, when he got in trouble in California, that rant thin. It's just unfortunate because this was a guy who was a tremendously talented actor. It's hard now to watch some of the great movies that you love when you know all of these stuffs and the rants and in different behavior. Come on, dude, really?
LEMON: Dean?
OBEIDALLAH: You know, I said the same thing a few times in club owners and comedy clubs, Don. So, I have to be honest, I'm not that shock, but.
No, I mean. Look at Mel Gibson. He's actually making Charlie Sheen look better. Charlie Sheen looks like the employee of the month when you look at the rant of Mel Gibson.
There's no defense for Mel Gibson. This is just Thursday, or Friday. It's nothing. The man has got a history of angry outbursts.
Ted Nugent is completely different. That wasn't angry. That was political rhetoric that got to the level of being actually a crime and violent in federal statute prohibiting threat against the president. So, there's different. Mel is crazy. Ted Nugent, not crazy. That's the difference.
LEMON: Are you sure about that?
OBEIDALLAH: Am I sure Ted Nugent is crazy? I'm not sure. He is actually legally crazy. I might be prosecuted for that. But -- Look at Alec Baldwin. Women don't do this. That's the interesting thing. Women like Snooki, they get drunk, they fall down. We don't see the angry, crazy rants. This is something men do.
LEMON: Let's let a woman speak to this. Do women do this?
HUGHES: No. You know what, if a woman is going the say something, she's going to make sure she's not taped, first of all. It is going to be a cat fight in the bathroom. There is going to be a little slapping. Somebody's weave might get left on the ground, OK? But then, it's over.
And, you know what, Mel Gibson has not gone off the reality or he has jumped the track. Listen. I know we are kidding around and everything, but let's face it. You know, get down to the bottom of it. It's racist rhetoric, OK. It's something that we started at the top of the show going this is hateful, this is horrible. Some of it is really funny. OK, let's face it. I don't mean the rhetoric. I just mean the fact that he's over the top.
LEMON: We got it. I have to move on because I really want to get to this. The television show, "the bachelor" being sued. See, if you can - if you can tell why? Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you marry me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The end is in sight. And everything that I dreamed of could be coming true. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe -- will you accept this rose?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you marry me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What do you think? Can you figure it out. There are a lot of white faces there. In 23 seasons, there's never been black bachelor or bachelorette. Now two African-Americans are filing a class Exelon lawsuit saying, you know what, they didn't get their shot. Do they have a point?
ANDERSON: Don, this is outrageous. I can't even believe this is the topic. There are absolutely no African-American bachelors or bachelorettes. We don't exist.
HUGHES: You know what, maybe they're too smart to be on the show.
ANDERSON: I can't believe that there hasn't been one.
LEMON: There are no single black people?
ANDERSON: It's a joke there hasn't been a single one. I mean, really?
HUGHES: Maybe they just don't embarrass themselves, OK? This could be a really good move on their part. How do we know they're not just too smart?
OBEIDALLAH: You guys are missing. There's a lot of diversity. All different shades of white people there. Some off white, some guy with a tan. Someone didn't shave. You know, how come - I mean, no black person, I'm Arab. I'm Muslim. How come there's no Muslims on there? They can marry four women. It would be a great show at the end, four wives.
HUGHES: And maybe, maybe they don't need to go on TV to get a date? How about that? Maybe they have enough the real life. Come on.
LEMON: I spoke to someone and they said. This is what they say. I don't know if this is true or not. Can you imagine having a black bachelor with women of all different ethnicities and having his picker choice. They think that the audience would be uncomfortable by that or by having a black bachelorette and the same thing. I don't know if that is true.
ANDERSON: That would -- that's shock - I mean, that's very surprising to me.
HUGHES: I am with Jamal. I mean, we see interracial couples on or comedy shows and dramas. I mean, this is -- aren't we past this?
LEMON: All right.
HUGHES: I mean, seriously?
OBEIDALLAH: Yes. The show's been on ten years. There's a truly a problem. It's been on for ten years, 23 seasons. The bachelor and bachelorette combined. And not one person of color as bachelor or bachelorette? I think - I used to be a lawyer. I think this is discrimination. It is going to be tough case for ABC.
LEMON: My question is, how do you have ten years and 23 seasons? That is interesting to me. I kind to know but, it used to be one year, one season.
HUGHES: Right.
LEMON: All right, we're done.
Up next --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're not down with it, get the (bleep ) off my channel.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: The king of all media under pressure to fill Piers Morgan's shoes and to stop the backlash that he has lost his it. Has Howard Stern jumped the shark?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right, back right now. Dean Obeidallah is in New York. Jamaal Anderson is her. Holly Hughes, here, as well.
And, you know, we talked a minute ago about Mel Gibson in a public battle with screenwriter, right. But, it's been a bad week for (INAUDIBLE) Howard Stern in his multimillion dollar lawsuit against Sirius XM radio. He gets thrown out. That got thrown out. Now he's fighting with director Judd Apatow who says he's Howard Stern's biggest fan, the director of the "40-Year-Old Virgin."
Here's what he tweeted. He says, "I hate to say it. But I don't have much interest in discussions about 'America's Got Talent.' I tried. It's just too much synergy." He is talking about listening to Howard Stern's show. And then Howard Stern got really upset and then fired back on his radio show. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD STERN, RADIO HOST: Robin was with me over at AGT which Judd Apatow says I shouldn't talk about because he's such a genius.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really?
STERN: He tweeted his opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You shouldn't talk about AGT?
STERN: Yes. I shouldn't talk about America's Got Talent --- I spent half my life there, I won't talk about it. But, hey man. Do I talk about that (INAUDIBLE) film you made? I keep it to myself. His criticism of me talking about AGT is that I go on and on. You ever see the movie, "funny people "? Talk about going on and on. I don't put my wife in every project I do either. If you're not down with it, get the (bleep) off my channel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't want to be in that conversation.
STERN: Yes. That's all. My God. I tell you. I mean, that kind of ticked me off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You are not shock. Nobody is shocked that Howard Stern went off on Judd Apatow, right? On Judd Apatow.
HUGHES: Isn't he called the shock jock?
LEMON: Dean, go ahead.
OBEIDALLAH: How thin-skinned is Howard Stern. Judd Apatow tweets one thing and then he attacks his casting of the guy's wife in movies? Judd Apatow is very funny. His movies are great. So, I don't know why Howard is taking it so personally. And who wants to hear about America's Got Talent? Put strippers on the sex machine, that's what people listen to the show for. Let's be honest. That's what people listen to.
LEMON: I have to say, I'm a true Howard Stern fan. I don't know if you guys are. I listen to Howard religiously. And my Sirius radio is locked to Howard. And lately, I got to tell you. I'm tired of hearing it. Every - I was like, what is AGT? I didn't know what AGT was. I don't watch it. I don't like talent shows. He's taking over as a judge for Piers Morgan. Piers Morgan would like to do a show. He's taking over as a judge. And now, all he talks about is AGT, AGT. I want to hear about Debbie the pet lady.
ANDERSON: You can imagine, Don. When the negotiations started happening in his payment, then he started shifting the discussions on the show which changes everything for the audience. And like you said, people who listen to Howard are like, oh, really?
LEMON: But I think it's interesting. I think Dean has a point because he said Judd Apatow was not his friend because friends wouldn't criticize a friend. But, sometimes you have to tell the emperor he's not wearing any clothes. And sometimes friends actually tell you the truth.
There's a guy on his show, J.D., who is one of the producer in the show and he says, why didn't you go to the tapings? And he says, what? What did I do? What J.D. is saying, I'm not interested in this.
HUGHES: Because I don't want to.
LEMON: Because I don't want to.
HUGHES: OK. Well, and the other thing that we just mentioned is, you know, me thinks thou does protest too much. If you're this upset, because guy put that one tweet, then you - his not your only tweet. You've been getting it from all corners.
LEMON: I think he's a bit sensitive.
HUGHES: That's exactly what it is.
OBEIDALLAH: And Don. Judd Apatow actually apologized afterwards and said, I'm Howard Stern's biggest fan.
LEMON: Yes.
OBEIDALLAH: So, I don't know why Howard made such a big deal. I think maybe Howard wants a little press. I mean, that's part and don't forget he was the king of all media with your terrestrial radio. He could get press doing anything amazing. He's a little bit ignored on satellite radio. That's just life.
ANDERSON: Basically was trying to say get back to where you are. Get back, Howard.
HUGHES: He should write a song, get back to where you once belonged.
LEMON: Yes. Yes.
HUGHES: Yes. There you go.
LEMON: I think the question is, has Howard Stern jumped the shark? It's a legit question because either you're a stern fan or you love him or hate him. And right now, I'm ready to get rid of my Sirius satellite radio.
HUGHES: Well, did you need about Howard Stern? Even if you hate him, you still listen so you can talk about him later.
LEMON: Well, yes. But - doesn't - AGT is not that kind that outrage, sorry Howard. Man up again.
Up next, why is this cake so scary? And more importantly, why is it screaming.
(VIDE CLIP PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Will Cain is a CNN contributor with a bit of a conservative bent. Good friend of mine. Will Cain, good to see you.
The new CNN opinion research corporation poll finds nearly seven in 10 Americans believe the tax system benefits the rich and is unfair to ordinary workers. Now, that certainly seems to be behind President Obama's push to raise taxes on millionaires through this Buffet rule. There's a real discussion but, should we be talking about the tax code as being fair or being efficient? What's your sense of if we're all agreeing that we don't love this tax code, what should it represent? Should the rich pay more? Should everybody pay the same amount?
WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well. I think first of all for me, and I don't think this is that subjective of an interpretation, what is fair is this. When you have that poll that says how many people think the tax code unfairly benefits the rich?
Well, statistics kind of fly in the face of that. But, one thing we know the tax code does is it's so complex, so riddled with exceptions and exemptions that it becomes like Swiss cheese and who does that benefit? Well, we want to say the rich but it really benefits those that are connected. Those that have lobbyists, those that have tax accountants and lawyers. That's where you can make a more fair tax code, by simplifying it, by making it something that so many of us understand.
But my complaint is, in your reference to the Buffett rule and President Obama, that doesn't solve any of those problems. It just makes it more complex for some arbitrary definition of fairness, that yes, I think is based on some semblance of envy for playing to the cheap seats, for telling people, hey, we'll get this solved, we'll play it to the rich guys.
VELSHI: Will, thank you. I'm Ali Velshi with this week's "mastering your money."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I got to warn you this next thing is really weird. A Swedish art exhibit features a cake shaped like a naked woman and it's causing some controversy. Some say it's racist, the artist says well, he's making a political point. A warning though, some viewers may find the report disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: These are the pictures igniting the race row threatening to engulf Sweden's culture minister. Lina (INAUDIBLE) is laughing at a shown plunging a knife into a cake shaped like stereo typical depiction of an African woman. The action was meant to mimic the female genital mutilation suffered by women across the African continent. The artist (INAUDIBLE), covered in dark makeup is the head of the cake, screams as the knife is plunged in. The minister, still laughing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. That was (INAUDIBLE) reporting. Does this offend you or is it just making a point, Dean?
OBEIDALLAH: I think it's a great nontraditional way of making a political point, raising an issue. I'm just glad they didn't make a circumcision cake, that would have been a little bit scary -- a much smaller cake.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I'll second that.
ANDERSON: My first thought was, what in the h-e double hockey sticks is that? You're trying to make a point, you make a point with that image?
LEMON: I mean, who are you, Beaver Cleaver? You can say hell.
ANDERSON: My children are watching.
LEMON: You are sitting there going?
HUGHES: It's gross. I just find the whole thing a little freaky. I think if you want to make a point, just say, you know, female circumcision is wrong. I mean, -- LEMON: All right.
ANDERSON: Good intentions, bad presentation.
LEMON: Making a point. We're not done making a point because we want to know why this man, the one you're going to see now, is buck naked in an airport. The TSA wants to know, and so did some frightened children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I was involved with "heroes" in 2008, Carolyn's project just touched my heart. You think about the people in this world that need help. The last people on that list are the children of incarcerated parents. That to me is why I'm coming out here today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approaching destination on the left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what are the total number of messages delivered by the messages project now?
CAROLYN: We're right at 9,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow. That's a lot of children that have this opportunity.
CAROLYN: Gate, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So tell me about this facility.
CAROLYN: This is a maximum security prison. And it is the pilot for California.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks.
CAROLYN: Good morning. How are you? I'm Carolyn. Talk from your heart. 15 minutes. We're going to give you a signal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are we ready to roll? Here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, kids. I know that you're angry with me. And you should be angry with me. The difficulties that you've faced over the years, that's my fault. Hold on a second.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could see that sadness, that guilt that they had for whatever decision they made that has impacted their children their entire lives.
CAROLYN: When you set these fathers down in front of that camera, they're dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't imagine all the things going on in these children's lives, what this means to them. On behalf of all of them, thank you so much. [
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Right now, for more shocking of -- when was the last time you went through airport security and had to remove your shoes? Well, here's an extreme version of that. This guy decided to go through security in Portland in his birthday suite, birthday depending on how you want to say it. He refused to put them back on to protest a TSA screener he felt harassed him. Are you shocked by this, Holly?
HUGHES: OK, I thought the cake was creepy. Let's get back to the cake, OK. I'd rather see the cake than this.
LEMON: You want to see the cake? You'd rather see the cake than that man's butt?
HUGHES: Yes. That's the nice version of it, OK?
ANDERSON: The image I don't want to see, Don. But you know the frustration that we deal with going through TSA. So, when I first saw it, I was like, yes!
LEMON: Dean, do you remember the guy, you touch my junk, or whatever?
OBEIDALLAH: This guy looks like the before picture in a gym ad. If you're going to get naked, work out before you go to the airport. Be in good shape. I want to see Angelina Jolie, or Scarlett Johansson do a protest like this, not this pudgy white guy. Please keep your clothes on if you're a pudgy white guy.
ANDERSON: He's assured they won't search him again.
LEMON: That's not nice.
ANDERSON: It is what it is.
LEMON: It's the truth, right?
HUGHES: What it is. What it is.
LEMON: We're done, thank you Jamal. Thank you, Holly. Thank you, Dean.
Have a great night, everyone. Thank you for watching. All right. We will see you back here tomorrow night. Good night.
