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Gay Marriage; Romney Addresses Evangelicals; Latest Syria Violence; Education Numbers; Muslim Americans Challenge No-Fly List; California Lawmakers Want to Ban Controversial Therapy; Sheriff Joe Arpaio Discusses Justice Department Lawsuit
Aired May 12, 2012 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Mixing faiths, Mitt Romney, presidential candidate and likely the nation's most visible Mormon, addresses a crowd who thinks his faith isn't really Christian.
Same sex marriage and equal rights, civil rights leaders release an open letter to other leaders, asking them to stand behind President Obama's decision on gay marriage.
No-fly list. A group of Americans including vets say they were banned from flying for no reason at all. Now they're suing.
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LEMON: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining us. Let's get you caught up right now.
Mitt Romney made a personal appeal today to conservative evangelicals. Romney addressed graduates at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, never mentioning his own Mormon faith, but stressing common ground on issues like service, responsibility and the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman. We'll take you live to Lynchburg, Virginia, just minutes from now here on CNN.
A Florida woman tried to use a state's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law to stay out of prison, but a judge wasn't having it and sentenced Marissa Alexander to 20 years. Alexander said she fired a warning shot to chase off her husband, who was abusive to her, but the prosecution says she fired in the direction of two children.
Guilty across the board. A jury in Chicago found William Balfour guilty for murdering family members of singer Jennifer Hudson. Balfour shot and skilled Hudson's mother, brother and 7-year-old nephew in 2008. Hudson broke down in tears in the courtroom when the verdict was read. Since Illinois has no death penalty, he will be sentenced to life without parole.
Protesters in Spain are fed up with their country's economic nightmare. Tens of thousands marched today in Madrid and other cities. They're marking the one-year anniversary of the movement against inequality and sky-high unemployment.
A group of civil rights leaders are commending President Obama for what they call his evolution on gay marriage. In an open letter released yesterday, the Reverends Al Sharpton and others applauded his stance on same-sex marriage, comparing it to the struggle for civil rights. Former NAACP Chairman Julian Bond talked with CNN's Anderson Cooper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You, though, have really been out in front in comparing the fight for equality for gay and lesbian Americans to the fight for equality for African-Americans, to the civil rights movement. You say that really this is the new front of the civil rights movement. Why?
JULIAN BOND, FORMER CHAIRMAN, NAACP: Well, I think it is. Anytime a group of people are denied rights and struggle for their rights, that's a civil rights movement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president declared his support for same-sex unions in an interview with ABC News' Robin Roberts earlier this week.
Mitt Romney addresses graduates at Liberty University today, the school founded by the late pastor and political activist Jerry Farwell.
Conservative evangelicals are a key constituency for Romney, and he spent much of his remarks stressing areas where he and his audience agree. And he also made sure the audience understood his definition of marriage is different from the one President Obama now supports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORMER GOV. MITT ROMNEY, R-MA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Culture, what you believe, what you value, how you live, matters. Now, as fundamental as these principles are, they may become topics of democratic debate from time to time. So it is today with the enduring institution of marriage, marriage is a relationship between one man and one woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Romney touched on politics, even made a reference to his former rival, Rick Santorum, who routinely outpolled Romney among the religious right. And our CNN political reporter Shannon Travis joins me now from Lynchburg, Virginia. So, Shannon, Romney talked politics, but he really spent a lot of time talking religion here as well, didn't he?
SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, he talked about both. Just a bit of background, Don. Yesterday, the campaign was saying, you know, this wouldn't be so heavy on policy, it certainly wouldn't be heavy on attacks against President Obama, but as you just mentioned, he waded into political stuff and religion as well.
Let's talk about politics first. You can't get more political than the biggest political issue of this week, which as you played, President Obama's stance on gay marriage and Mitt Romney coming here in his first big public forum, responding to that, and he did so. He's done so in a few interviews this week.
But in terms of other political subjects that he's waded into, he talked about Rick Santorum, his former rival, obviously, for the GOP nomination, saying that Rick Santorum had referred him to a Brookings Institution study which said that if you graduate high school and get a job and couples marry before they have a child, that they're only 2 percent likely to actually be poor.
Another political occurrence, but this one aimed at Mitt Romney, that was a pesky plane, Don, that was flying around the commencement the entire time. It was from the liberal activist group, moveon.org, and it basically said -- I'm quoting the banner here -- "GOP equals higher school debt."
Now, before the plane was buzzing around, moveon.org sent out reporters, a press release saying we're going to have this plane there. They were complaining about the Paul Ryan House budget chairman, Paul Ryan's budget, basically saying that it will cut $170 billion from Pell grants. And so if you side with Paul Ryan as Mitt Romney does on this budget, that it will cost students more money.
LEMON: All right, Shannon Travis, thank you very much.
Former GOP hopeful Rick Santorum has some advice for Mitt Romney. Use the same-sex marriage issue as a political weapon. He made his comments at a Republican dinner Friday night in Arkansas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORMER SEN. RICK SANTORUM, R-PA.: You see, this is a very potent weapon, if you will, for Governor Romney if he's willing to step up and take advantage of the president, who is very much out of touch with the values of America.
And hopefully Governor Romney will continue to stand tall for his position on this issue, and understanding how detrimental it would be for society for it to have this changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So when asked if he might be interested in being Romney's running mate, Santorum took a pass and said it's not something he is campaigning for.
The president's stance on same-sex marriage is also creating some tension among his biggest supporters. African-Americans overwhelmingly support President Obama but tend to be more conservative when it comes to same-sex marriage. At least that's what is reported. Sandra Endo takes a look at how the president's new position could impact a crucial group of voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR RALPH MARTINO: Give us the insight and the revelation. SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pastor Ralph Martino leads a prayer for President Obama.
MARTINO: Same-sex related marriages can become one. It contradicts scripture.
ENDO (voice-over): He said the president's recent declaration of support for same-sex marriage is troubling.
MARTINO: We're concerned, definitely disappointed. Genesis chapter number two, verses 21.
ENDO (voice-over): He reads the Bible passage describing marriage between a man and woman, a strongly held belief among Christians. As faithful as the African-American community has been to the first African-American president, this issue is creating some tension.
MARTINO: There will be some that will absolutely turn against him. And we -- because again, we hear it happening as we speak.
ENDO (voice-over): But Reverend Martino and many of his 800 congregants aren't rushing to renounce their support for Obama.
MARTINO: We're here, again, to pray for him and to help him to understand you have the support of those that are willing to pray with you, pray for you. But understand, you need God to counsel.
ENDO (voice-over): Voters we spoke to are giving the president a pass.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't necessarily agree with the marriage issue. But it won't stop me from supporting him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree with him. When you have coworkers, you have friends, it's hard to -- you can get married, to tell them they can't get married.
ENDO (voice-over): And many African American worshipers may forgive the president for his position come November.
MARTINO: All of us go astray. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.
ENDO (voice-over): Sandra Endo, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Syrians mourn dozens who were killed in twin bombings in Damascus, and two journalists who went missing are released. A report from Turkey next.
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LEMON: In the Syrian capital of Damascus, rows of caskets show the toll from twin suicide blasts that struck Thursday. CNN's Ivan Watson reports from the Turkish-Syrian border on that story and some news about two journalists.
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Families mourned at the state funerals that were held for some of the more than 50 victims of an enormous bombing on Thursday in the Syrian capital that targeted the headquarters of one of Syria's many security and intelligence agencies.
Meanwhile, a shadowy jihadist group claimed responsibility for that blast and explosion. Al-Nusra claimed responsibility in an online statement, similar to previous claims that were made about other blasts and bombings around Syria. The Syrian government claims that it has foiled an attempted suicide truck bombing in Syria's largest commercial city of Aleppo within the past 24 hours.
While Syrian families mourned in Damascus, here in Turkey, two families were celebrating news of the release of two Turkish journalists who went missing and were feared dead for the better part of more than two months inside Syria. Adem Ozkose and Hamit Coskun were discovered to be held at a prison in Damascus by the Turkish Islamist charity organization IHH last week.
IHH has been negotiating for the release of these two Turkish journalists with Iranian and Syrian officials. Now IHH announced that on Friday, two captive Iranians who had been grabbed by Syrian rebels inside Syria were released to Turkey, and now these two Turkish journalists have been released to Iran and are expected to be flown back to a hero's welcome in Turkey within a matter of hours.
The parents feared their sons were dead, and one of the journalists, Adem Ozkose, was quoted in the Turkish media, saying, "There were tough days and tough conditions, but freedom is the most beautiful thing in the world." Ivan Watson, CNN, Hatai (ph), Turkey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is back home and he says his latest round of cancer therapy in Cuba was successfully completed. Chavez walked off the plane last night. There had been rumors he was too weak to walk. Chavez has been tight-lipped about his health. He's running for re-election this year.
How far would you go to study foreign exams? Disturbing images of high school students in China taking IV drips to stay awake longer for college tests. But is this an example of why China leads in international testing?
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CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Suits meet the hoodies. Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg gets rock star treatment on his company's road show, but should he get your money when his company goes public? Facebook will price that IPO between $28 and $35 a share.
RYAN MACK, PRESIDENT, OPTIMUM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Wait about a month after the stock has been released. The mutual funds and institutional investors are going to be the major ones buying up the stock. So when the stock actually opens, I do believe it's going to come in probably between $90, maybe even $100 a share when it actually gets released. So let the hype go down, let the euphoria go down.
ROMANS (voice-over): Because a lot of rich people get in before you ever will. Investment banks underwriting the IPO get the first crack at shares. They sell them to their best client -- hedge funds, big money managers and insiders. They get that IPO price.
Then retail investors, the little guys, they get their shot dead last. E*TRADE is an underwriter of the IPO and E*TRADE will have some shares available. TD Ameritrade and Charles Schwab, too.
ROMANS: Limit order. Two words, if you're going to try to buy the IPO, limit order.
MACK: Yes. What's your price, what's your budget? And that's going to be very valuable, especially limit order, to make sure (inaudible) you limit the price on what you're willing to pay on a particular stock.
ROMANS (voice-over): The most famous investor won't buy the Facebook IPO.
WARREN BUFFETT, BILLIONAIRE: I can't recall in my life buying a new offering. The idea that something is coming out, we'll say, on a Monday that is being offered with significant commissions, all kinds of publicity and everything, the seller electing the time to sell is going to be the best single investment that I can make in the world, among thousands of choices, that's mathematically impossible.
ROMANS (voice-over): Before obsessing about an IPO, make sure you're maxing out your 401(k), you're balanced properly, and have the right mix of investments. That's a sure bet -- Christine Romans, CNN, New York.
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LEMON: All right, we all want our kids to succeed if we have them. But I don't know, would you do this? I don't have any kids, but this would be -- I'm not sure if I would allow my kids to do this.
These high school kids in China, getting fluids through IVs so they can study longer. Crazy, but look at this. Recent international testing puts China at the top in education. The U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 25th in math.
OK. IVs, that's extreme, but they want to be the best. Do our students want that? Do they? I'm sure they want to be the best, but would they be willing to do this?
Some would say no. Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, so we see this and go, oh, my gosh. That is nuts. But what happened to our desire to be the best, and is this -- I don't know, is this just crazy or does this really say anything about our desire to be the best that maybe Americans wouldn't go to these extremes?
JEFF GARDERE, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY: Well, I'm glad Americans would not go to that kind of extreme. Because as we know, school is not just about academics and testing. It's also about learning social skills and having some fun, and having some adjustment, emotional adjustment.
And I would think those kids in China who we saw hooked up to those IVs, yes, it's about keeping up with the Joneses for them because that may be the culture, but I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that many of those kids are not very happy, and are under a tremendous amount of stress, and we don't want our kids to be under that kind of stress here.
LEMON: But that's -- it is a way of life for them, and our way of life here, especially lately, some young people, students have all these other distractions that we didn't have when you and I were kids. Does that play a role, too, in our rankings? I'm talking social media.
GARDERE: Yes. Yes, I think it has a lot to do with that. When you and I were growing up, perhaps the biggest distraction was television. Kids now have the computers, they have the social networking, so all of those things are competing for their attention.
And therefore, I think it pulls them a little bit away from where their academics ought to be, even when they're using the computer, they're getting all sorts of calls on that computer, as a matter of fact, to move away from the academics and see what is going on in the world as far as social news and entertainment news or games on the Internet.
LEMON: OK. So we're talking about, it sounds serious, breaking kids of this problem, of this cycle, but what is interesting, are we asking the wrong question here? Maybe it's more about the parents, because the parents should say, hey, listen, get off the computer. Hey, listen, is this more about the parent or the kid?
GARDERE: Well, I think in some ways it is about the parent and the child. But the parent has to take the lead, Don. And too often, I think parents have given up on kids because the fact of the matter is, we have less kids than perhaps in the past few years who are attending college, they seem to be less ambitious.
A lot of that is because they're affected by the financial community and say, well, what's the use of going to school if I can't really get a job?
But parents have to be insistent that their kids study, they have to be insistent that their kids get higher education, and they have to lead as far as being role models by going back to school themselves in their 30s, 40s, and 50s, and getting more education. And we see more of that trend happening.
LEMON: Yes. Let's not forget there are a lot of successful slackers as well who sit around and dream all these things up, and video games and all that, and they become very wealthy. So we're generalizing here, of course, Jeff, because there are still many students who really put a lot into their studies. But do some of them lose their steam as they get closer to graduation?
GARDERE: I think when you are looking at college, perhaps they start losing that steam because they see that there aren't jobs that are out there waiting for them. However, if you're talking about graduate schools, medical school, I teach at Turot (ph) College of Osteopathic Medicine.
As those kids are getting towards the end of medical school, you better believe they're trying harder. They want to pass those boards, they want to get residencies because they know that they are at the beginning of their professions. So in post college, absolutely, they're trying harder.
In college, I think we're seeing that kids are getting disappointed, but that's where, Don, we step in as parents and say, it's not just about the job, but it's also about the education, your self-esteem, that's something that no one can take away from you, the beauty of learning. And that's the most important lesson.
LEMON: All right. I have to get hooked up to my IV and get cracking because I'm slacking here. Thank you, Doctor. Appreciate it.
GARDERE: Great to see you, Don.
LEMON: All right.
American war vets considered the enemy. Why they're listed on the no- fly zone list.
But first this, it may look like an ordinary soccer ball, but it generates energy while you're playing with it. It's this week's "Technovations."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Kick a soccer ball around, turn on a light.
JULIA SILVERMAN, COFOUNDER, UNCHARTED PLAY: The Soccket is a soccer ball that doubles as a portable generator. When you play with the ball, it actually harnesses the energy from play.
BALDWIN (voice-over): Created by two Harvard grads, the Soccket provides a power source for people in developing countries, a simple design based upon high school physics.
JESSICA MATTHEWS, COFOUNDER, UNCHARTED PLAY: We essentially have a stripped-down gyroscope inside of the ball that also harnesses the kinetic energy that's generated when the ball's rolling. A motor then powers a battery that stores that power. You can power a lamp, a cell phone charger. We've been prototyping things like hot plates, water sterilizers. BALDWIN (voice-over): Thirty minutes of play gives you about three hours of power, depending on the device. The balls are now being donated and distributed by NGOs in places like Mexico and South Africa.
SILVERMAN: It's, you know, an energy source, but it's also a source of empowerment. It's based on a sport that is so loved, and is grounded in this issue of energy, which is so critical to everyone's lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Coming up on half past the hour, we're going to look at your headlines right now.
First up, Mitt Romney made a direct and personal appeal today to Christian conservatives. He addressed graduates at Liberty University where he drew a clear distinction with President Obama and reaffirmed his view that marriage should be defined as between one man and one woman.
A former LAPD detective is going to prison for a deadly love triangle 26 years ago. A judge sentenced Stephanie Lazarus to 27 years in prison. Lazarus was convicted of killing her ex-boyfriend's wife in a jealous rage back in 1986. The case was cold for years until 2009, when DNA tests matched a bite mark on Lazarus.
In Florida, a millionaire has been sentenced to 16 years in prison for DUI manslaughter. A jury in Palm Beach County found polo magnate John Goodman guilty of being drunk when he caused the death of 23-year-old Scott Wilson. "The Sun Sentinel" newspaper reports Goodman's family is putting together $7 million to get him out on bond while his attorneys appeal the verdict.
Two sisters are now safe two weeks after a kidnapper changed their lives forever. Police now say that 12-year-old Alexandria Bain and 8- year-old Kyliyah Bain were close enough to see Adam Mayes fatally shoot himself.
According to investigators, Mayes killed their mother and older sister at their Tennessee home, then fled with the two girls. It all ended in the Mississippi woods on Thursday when police closed in.
MASTER SGT. STEVE CRAWFORD, MISSISSIPPI HIGHWAY PATROL: I began giving commands. The little girl picked her head up. The other girl picked her head up after another command. Mr. Mayes began to raise his head. I could see a weapon in his hand.
I hollered, "Gun," three times loud to let my team know that there was a weapon involved. We ordered Mr. Hayes (sic) to drop the weapon numerous times. Mr. Hayes (sic) raised to his knees, never brandished the gun toward any of us or the children. At that time, he took his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: According to family and friends, Mayes thought he was actually the father of the two girls.
They have shown unmatched bravery in the line of duty. 34 police officers from around the country honored at the White House today. President Obama and Vice President Biden appeared together to hand out the top-cop awards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every day, hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers keep our neighborhoods safe. And frankly, they don't ask for a lot. They don't ask for a lot. They don't go to work planning to be heroes. They just do their jobs. But when you put on that badge, you assume a special responsibility. And every time you put it on, you never know if this day will be the day that you spent your entire career training for. The day when you're just doing your job and being a hero are exactly the same thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Congratulations to them.
The no-fly list is being criticized by a group of Muslim Americans. 15 men say they were put on the list and have been banned from flying and they have no way to get off the list. Now, a federal appeals court is considering their case.
And CNN's Jason Carroll joins me now from New York.
Jason, listen, this is going to be interesting to see how it turns out. Four of the men are veterans. How did they end up on the list?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Part of them aren't sure. That's part of the problem that you're seeing here. You can imagine it's frustrating for them. It's been incredibly -- leaving them in a state of limbo. And this is the way they put it. Imagine if you're arriving at the airport, Don, and you have not done anything wrong. You don't intend to do anything wrong, and you're told you can't board your flight. No one is telling you why, no one is telling you how to fix it. That's the situation that a former Marine, Abe Mashal, found himself in. He was heading from Chicago to Spokane for his dog training business. Federal agents, he says, surrounded him and told him he couldn't go. He found out later he was on the no-fly list. And a few months later, Don, he said the FBI offered to get him off the list in exchange for being an informant. Well, Mashal declined the offer. He's now one of 15 people who, along with the ACLU, are suing the government over the no-fly list. A lower court threw out the case, but an appeals court heard arguments yesterday in Portland, Oregon. Mashal said being on the list has hurt him, his family, and he also said his business.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ABE MASHAL, PLAINTIFF IN NO-FLY LIST LAWSUIT: It's a lot of power for them to disrupt someone's life. And you know, in all actuality, this country's for the people, by the people, so the government should fear the citizens. The citizens shouldn't fear the government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Well, a source told CNN in January the flow-fly list has ballooned to 20,000 people as government agencies are working together to share more information.
The government said this list is vital for keeping the country safe from terrorism. And they say since the list has been created, they have been doing more to take steps to improve the accuracy of it. Of course, the spokesman said the decision will be forthcoming but, Don, could not say when. For now, those plaintiffs are not flying.
LEMON: Many times you don't know until you're at the airport.
CARROLL: Right.
LEMON: You don't even know you're on the list. So what can you do if you end up on the list? It's happened to other people besides these folks.
CARROLL: One of the things you can do is, there's a protest where you can go on the web and try to clear your name. I actually went on the web earlier today. You go to the TSA site, which then directs you to Homeland Security to something called -- you click on Travelers Redress Inquiry program. You click on that and then you can submit a complaint. You'll be given a number. With that number, you can track and see what your status is. There's also sort of a check list there where you can check on whatever applies to you. You see, i was denied boarding. I'm able to print my boarding pass. It goes on and on.
The problem with that is there doesn't seem to be an indication of how long it will take to fix the problem. And if you don't like the outcome, what you can do about it. This is why I think you're seeing lawsuit like the one presented by the ACLU.
LEMON: And then you do that, and you wait and wait, and then who knows when you're going to hear back.
CARROLL: And still, not flying in the meantime.
LEMON: It's a problem.
Jason, thank you. Appreciate it.
This is how one therapist treats his male patients. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: That is supposedly to cure them of their homosexuality. That's not gay, right? Look at that. It's part of what is conversion therapy, a practice California lawmakers want banned, and they want it right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Take a look. Ready? How is this for physical therapy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom. Mom! Mom! Mom! Why did you do that to me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What you're looking at is part of what is called conversion therapy, a controversial practice that tries to turn gay people straight. And some in California are trying to outlaw the practice.
I'm going to talk law and justice with Karen Conte, a trial attorney and legal expert.
Karen, the people behind the proposal --
KAREN CONTI, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Hi, Don.
LEMON: -- say the therapy is unsafe and unhealthy -- hello, by the way -- and that -- is that grounds enough though for it to be outlawed?
CONTI: Well, you know, as sensitive as this therapy might be, we have to look at the constitutionality. The state has a right to do things that are in the safety and interest of the public, like seat belts and motorcycle helmets and quarantine laws. They have that state power. But where it collides with the Constitution is where we have to have trouble with this. Listen, are we discriminating against gay people by enacting a law telling them they can't seek a certain kind of therapy even if they want to? Does that single then out and treat them differently? It might.
LEMON: You know, gay advocates, right, are going to -- i would imagine, I'm just saying, maybe this should be outlawed. But then does that take away your constitutional right to choose whatever therapy, as you said, that you want to do? There's a delicate dance that happens here. Where does it end? If you say, hey, listen, you can't do this?
CONTI: Yes, what if the government decides that some form of therapy is something they want to advocate or not advocate. That's not what the government should be doing. The medical profession should be the one saying, if you're a psychotherapist, you shouldn't do this therapy because it's dangerous and harmful. It's shouldn't be the government saying if you do this, you going to get the right to sue. You sued and give damages. It doesn't make sense that we should be using our governmental tools this way. LEMON: It's interesting, because how do you figure out what's going on? The man you saw in the video, that man, he's an unlicensed therapist. He does a thing called touch therapy that you're looking at. What he's trying to do, what it's to do is help re-create a father-son bond. And it's funny to look at it because you know, they say this is to sort of make you not be gay, when you look at that and say, that's not gay, but you're sitting on a couch cuddling. It's odd when you see it.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: How do you regulate what happens behind closed doors?
CONTI: You certainly can't. You certainly can't. I mean, we're free to do a lot of things that seem silly and harmful. We can get tattoos, get our nosed pierced. We can get breast implants the likes of no one has ever seen. We can do all kinds of things to our bodies that may or may not be harmful. And it seems to me that we can't just pick and choose -- gay people can't do this because we know what is best for them. Maybe it is best for them. I doubt it, i find it offensive, but we have to look at the big picture here.
LEMON: No one is condoning this, at least neither you nor i, but it's just --
CONTI: No.
LEMON: -- you want to be able to have, in America, freedom to choose. So it's -- i don't know, it's a very slippery slope, i think. We're not done talking about this --
CONTI: It is.
LEMON: -- this very controversial therapy. I want you to stick around because there's something here that involves children when it comes to this therapy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK, we're back now talking about what you're looking at. This is one part of conversion therapy, a controversial therapy that tries to turn gay people straight.
We continue now with attorney, Karen Conti.
I don't know the legal term, but I guess maybe it's precedent, or have the courts ever taken this issue on?
CONTI: Not this exact issue yet, Don. But what they have done is, the California appellate courts have said that this kind of conversion therapy could be considered torture under international law. What happens is sometimes they try to deport people in their country because they're gay, and they say we're going to give you asylum because we think it's torture. The courts have reviewed it and have looked at the statistics and medical evidence and have made a determination, at least in one court, that it constitutes something very harmful.
LEMON: Let's talk about kids now because it's not just grown ups. The proposed law, Karen, would keep parents from placing their kids in conversion therapy. Is the state here -- are they saying this therapy, if you enroll your child, you try to get your child into this, is constituting child abuse, maybe?
CONTI: Well, and i think that's where they're going with this. I'm a little more comfortable from a legal standpoint with that kind of thing. When you're talking about minors and you're having adults make decisions for minors, that's a little bit difficult than an adult making an adult decision, that, yes, i want to engage in this therapy. I'm going to take the ramifications and results of that. But i think that could certainly be the case. If you knowingly put your child in there and know it's going to be harmful, cause depressive tendencies and maybe even suicide, that could be child abuse under any state law.
LEMON: Karen, thank you very much. Great conversation. Appreciate it.
CONTI: You're welcome, Don.
LEMON: He's known as America's toughest sheriff but now he's the one in trouble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A former San Francisco Bay Area Transit officer, involved in a controversial killing back in 2009, is appealing his manslaughter conviction. Johannes Mehserle served 12 months in prison. At a hearing this week, his attorney questions some of the evident used at trial and the instructions given to the jury. He shot 22-year-old Oscar Grant, who was unarmed inside a BART transit station. Grant's family is criticizing the decision to appeal. The court is expected to rule within 90 days.
Well, there may be no sheriff in America no controversial than Joe Arpaio. He's national known for his tough stance against illegal immigration. Too tough for the Department of Justice, by the way, which is now suing Arpaio and the sheriff's office of Maricopa County, Arizona.
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THOMAS PEREZ, ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's reasonable cause to believe that MCSO and Sheriff Arpaio engage in a pattern or practice of discriminatory policing of Latinos.
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LEMON: Sheriff Arpaio tells me there's no way he's going to stand for these accusations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOE ARPAIO, SHERIFF, MARICOPA COUNTY: I'm not going to let the federal government run my office. I'm the elected constitutional sheriff. I report to the people, four million, in this county. They want to take over my office, and i have to tell them every time i want to do something, that's the problem with this lawsuit. That's the sticking point.
LEMON: Let's go on because you talk about -- you said they say you're racist and you're not. If you look at the evidence and look at what has been reported and what is on the record, for example -- just giving one example, and there are a number of them -- one example from the complaint, a pregnant Latina, a U.S. citizen, was pulled over in her driveway. The complaint says an officer slammed her against the car and shoved her in the back of a hot patrol car for 30 minutes. She was cited for failure to show I.D., but everything was for failure to show I.D., and everything was dropped. People will question that and look at that and say, how is that not profiling, Sheriff?
ARPAIO: You mean one case out of 51,000 illegal aliens that we have arrested on the streets --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That was one example that we cited. But go ahead.
ARPAIO: OK. Well, I don't know. They won't give us the facts they are talking about. They refuse to give us witnesses and how they came about this. So I have no idea. But you know what, going to court, now they're going to have to put up, explain everything, show their evidence and we will be able to defend ourselves.
LEMON: OK. Another. In a 2009 interview, you said, i think we're doing something good if they're leaving, if they're leaving. You're referring to Latinos. How can you say that when your county is 30 percent Hispanic and that percentage is growing quickly?
ARPAIO: No, i said, by enforcing the state laws and federal laws, until Obama took away my authority under the federal laws -- no, i was saying as deterrent, instead of being arrested by my office or law enforcement, if they're leaving and going back to the country that they came from, i think that's a good thing. They're here illegally. If criminals want to leave and go back, i think that's very beneficial.
LEMON: OK. I think obviously many people feel that way because they keep choosing you to be their sheriff. Is that -- do you feel that?
ARPAIO: Well, they keep electing me because I'm doing my job. I have compassion for the Mexican people. I lived there for four years. I was a director there, South America, Turkey, Texas. So i know what the U.S. border is, having been the top law enforcement guy there for 12 years. I have compassion. But I'll tell you, enforcing the law overrides my compassion.
LEMON: Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
So it seems this kid was willing to give anything to keep his gum ball, including an arm. That's next.
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LEMON: As we celebrate Mother's Day, we introduce to you a mom who tragically lost her son in a drowning accident six years ago. With black children three times more likely to drown than whites, she turned her grief into a project that is saving lives. I want you to meet Wanda Butts, this week's "CNN Hero."
(CNN HEROES)
LEMON: That's why she's a hero.
You have heard about getting busted with your hand in the cookie jar. Well, one kid had a similar experience and it seems he wasn't willing to let go.
Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This 2-year-old wanted to chew some gum balls. Instead, the gum ball machine swallowed his hand, or, as his dad put it --
TERRELL PARKS SR, FATHER OF TERRELL PARKS JR: I turned my back for one minutes, they were trying to get some gun out of the gum machine and his hand was stuck up in there completely, man.
MOOS: His cheeks were wet with tears as the Texarkana Fire Department came to the rescue of Terrell Parks Jr.
VINCENT JOHNSON, TEXARKANA FIREFIGHTER: Initially, we did not have a plan. We were hoping we would come in and it would be as simple as putting some oil and sliding it out. Wasn't that simple.
MOOS: Turns out they had to break the plastic and disassemble the mechanism.
(on camera): You mean there were gum balls all over the floor?
JOHNSON: All over the floor.
MOOS (voice-over): All over the floor, not counting the ones in Terrell's hand.
(on camera): At one point during the rescue, the kid got some gum balls in his first but he refused to open the fist and give up the gum balls.
(voice-over): Firefighters had to coax him so they could get his hand out.
JOHNSON: Open your fist. Open your hand.
UNIDENTIFIED FIREFIGHTER: Let the gum ball go. MOOS: Which he finally did.
UNIDENTIFIED FIREFIGHTER: There you go, buddy.
(CROSSTALK)
MOOS: No injuries to the hand.
UNIDENTIFIED FIREFIGHTER: Did that hurt?
MOOS: But the best "kids stuck in a toy machine" video ever features a girl who climbs head first into the door where the prize normally comes out in one of those claw machines like the one in "Toy Story."
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CARTOON CHARACTER: Farewell, my friends. I go on to a better place.
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MOOS: Once the girl disappears up the hole, another kid tells mom and his mom goes for help. The little girl pops up amid all the toys. Mom spent some time trying to retrieve her by the feet and knocking on the window but the girl keeps climbing the mound of toys.
(on camera): Whatever you do, mom, don't try to shake her out.
(voice-over): Actually, this isn't so uncommon. There are other photos of kids trapped in the belly of a toy machine.
Eventually, this little girl came out exactly the way she went in, exiting feet first with a little help from her mom. It was at if the vending machine gave birth.
Did she leave without taking home a prize? The gum ball kid got to keep a few to help him chew over the experience.
Jeanne Moos, CNN --
JOHNSON: You read to go home?
MOOS: -- New York.
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(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: He's so cute! I feel you. I cannot pass a gum ball machine without checking my pockets for quarters to get one, so I know how you feel, kids. Glad he's OK.
I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. I'll see you back here in one hour.
In the meantime, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer is going to begin in just a few moments here.
